MY ribbon mic:TS Destroyer D-1c/lil teaser/hey lab bros!

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ToobieSnack

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
493
hey brothers (sisters too) :grin:
here's my lil greeting to labs bros and sisters.
just a quick small file ..
i'll get some audio/music for ya later on (sorry no time)
any way here ya go

Destroyer D-1c

enjoy
ts
 
Ooooh. I'm quite excited.

Let's hear some instruments!

Gimme some acoustic!

Sounding pretty cool though. :razz:
 
Toobie,

Is there is HIGH pitched noise that sound like a high freq test tone for the first 2 seconds and in the space between your spoken word, or am I going mad?

Overall the depth of the spoken word sounds cool, look forward to hearing more samples and maybe a pic, when you can share something.

Cheers

Matt
 
yah i got all kind of compuer noise and EMF going on here ..
i have the mic about 2 feet from my computer ... hehe .. :oops:
i'll isolate the mic from all those interferences when i do the audio ..
that is why i need a bit more time before i can put up actual studio quality audio clips ...

sorry about the noise ,,, this was just a quick lil thing .. hehe
any way thanks for the coments :grin:
later
ts
 
Toobie,

How far from the mic were you speaking?
Also, the ribbons have very good supression on off axis. If you place it perpendicular to the computer, the noises will be much more rejected.
Does it have a hiss, or is it coming from a coumputer?
 
hi marik

i was about 4-5 inches ( ... 10 CM ..?)

yes there is a bit of hiss ...
i have a lot of gian from my mic pre (70db)

i am just using this trafo that fum sent me for free (thnx fum)
i have an edcor too ,, but it seems to be about the same ..
and the edcor has NO sheilding so ... lots of EMF :sad:
as soon as i can get some bucks together i want to try a sowter ...

the mic has petty decent output but that is something i'd like to see get better ...

fum said this trafo was about a 1:27 ... i hope the 1:40 will give me more output and then i can reduce the gain of the mic pre ..

also keep in mind this is a $200 mic pre so ... :sad:
but ... i like the way it sounds ... it has a warm sound to it ...
might be able to EQ in some sparkle ... better details on the highs ..

and i have 3 more ideas i will test but .... as i said before i will use custom grinded neo's for those ... the D-2a should be a lot cooler .. :wink:

so do you think i can improve this with a sowter trafo?
or perhaps the 1:100 lundahl ... hehe

anyway as always your help and kind comments are sincerely appreciated.
later
ts
 
Hey Toobie,

You could accurately measure the resistance of your ribbon to get an idea of what would be a suitable transformer ratio.

Remember that impedance ratio is turns ratio squared.

You're aiming to get ~ 200 - 600 Ohms output impedance.

Turns ratio of 1:27 = impedance ratio of 729:1, so it would suit a ribbon resistance of ~ 0.3 - 0.5 Ohms (I think it says this on the Sowter site IIRC).

Turns ratio of 1:40 = impednace ratio of 1600:1, so it would suit a ribbon resistance of ~ 0.125 Ohms.

What sort of foil are you using? This will partly dictate your choice.

I remember reading about that Lundahl 1:100. That is a bit of an odd-ball!

By the way, in my opinion, good ribbon mics rarely have "sparkle". Most of them have that "chocolate-y" :razz: sound. The only exception I can think of is some of the Beyer models.
 
Toobie,

I assume you did not EQ it or anything. It has a nice high end.
Normally, the ribbon mics should be tested at least a couple feet from the source. Otherwise, the proximity can become huge, making the bass very muddy.
With your 4-5" distance you should get actually much more bass, which means that you probably overtighten the ribbon. What is your current tuning resonant frequency?

If you have an audible hiss, there are 2 suspects:

1) Your ribbon's impedance is quite high (narrower, thinner, and longer ribbons), or/and
2) your signal not strong enough to get way over the noise floor. With softer sources (or with more distant miking) it can become a real problem.
With close miking (like your voice) any preamp should be quite sufficient--even $40 AudioBuddy.
The higher ratio transformer would not be a cure, esp. for the higher resistance ribbons, as this ratio will just amplify transformer's primary resistance noise.

What is the DCR of your ribbon?

Sorry, if it came across little bit like critique, just want to help to optimize the design.
 
[quote author="ToobieSnack"]hey brothers (sisters too) :grin:
... etc ...
Destroyer D-1c
[/quote]

Tobbie, some linear pcm file, like wav without any postedition (noise reduction/filtering) for noise analysis,
!!! P L E A S E !!!!

xvlk
 
hi thanks all for your comments
marik ... i always welcome your comments and advice ,,,
and much thanks to you and xvlk for helping me with ribbon mic theory.

What is your current tuning resonant frequency?
i have see some posts that discussed this ... i know nothing about this .. but .. I AM OF COURSE EXTREMELY INTERESTED .. :grin:

xvlk: i would be very happy and thankful to send you a file for analysis.

the file here (even thought it is short) is 4.5 megs ..
i don't have the room on my ftp for this file now.
can i e-mail it to you?
is AIFF ok? or .sd2 (digital performer default)
i think i can save as any file format in digital perfromer ..
if you need a certain file type let me know and i will see what i can do.
if so please send me you e-mail to my PM and i will send you the file
...if any otheres are interested in a non mp3 file let me know ..

ALSO my DMM is pretty cheap so .. i don't know if it will be accurate enough for a good DCR measurement .. i will try it anyway later..
OR try to get a more accurate one .. :sad:
later
ts
 
What sort of foil are you using? This will partly dictate your choice.

rbod I am using my cigarrete pack foil ... hehe ...

i have a detailed descripion here at the forum

search "finger" "ribbon"

i use my finger to loosen the paper backing and that just happens to get you the fastest search results ..

xvlk
this recording has no noise redution or anything ... except some very light compression .. just enough to keep my DAW from overloading on the large peaks .. i don't think the compression ever kicked in ...

would you prefer a sound file of NO audio (just the mics self noise?)
also if i record audio is there any certain source or tones you would like?
eg 500 hz , 800hz, 1khz ,4khz,10khz 20khz etc..
OR
just guitar is ok? voice too?
let me know and thanks for your very kind offer to test this for me.

marik (and otheres)...plz please PLEASE
explain the process of determining my current tuning resonant frequency?
OR tuning a ribbon to a certain resonant frequency ?
what is my goal?

thanks
ts
 
[quote author="ToobieSnack"]
marik (and otheres)...plz please PLEASE
explain the process of determining my current tuning resonant frequency?
OR tuning a ribbon to a certain resonant frequency ?
what is my goal?

[/quote]

Toobie,

It is all in the META. This is already the third time I am suggesting you to go through its entire ribbon mics part :wink:

OK, here is the link:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=1810

The frequency of resonance will completely depend on your particular design and can be somewhere between 20-50Hz. Some mics have even higher.
 
MARIK

oh great ! thanks ... i never could find that thread .. missed it somehow? .. i will read that intensely ...
my apologies .. sometimes i can be as stupid as my avatar looks .. :oops:
not really ... just a joke ..hehe :grin:

thanks for helping me .. and ... not abandoning me ... :thumb:
ALSO: most times, 1000 thanks is the best praise i give .. but for you ...

1,000,000,000 thanks :wink:
later
ts
 
Hi all

sorry it has taken me so long to get to this ... always sooo busy.. :sad:

my design has the trafo in the cable so removing it from the path was easy ...
i roved it and measured resistance using my DMM ...
My DMM has an accuracy one decimal place. ( 1/10 of an ohm)

my DMM has a resistance of .3 ohms (the leads to the dmm put together should read zero but there is no calibration option for this DMM)

my total reading was .6 ohms ..
minus the error created by the DMM that would be
.3ohms .. which is very cose to the .25 ohms required by the sowter 1:40 trafo ...

OK assuming the trafo i have is not the perfect trafo for my ribbon mic ..

how is this incorrect trafo affecting my signal?

ALSO i was reading on r*oyers website that transducers are measured for resonant frequency and them matched to trafo's depending on their measurement on a military inductance bridge ...

this might as well be a foriegn language to me ... what does this mean?

i guess what i am asking is :
what is the realtionship between ribbon resonant frequency and inductance of the trafo?


i have been working on getting the audio files .. i need upload space .

MATTA: thatnks for pointing out that high frequency ... after you mentioned it it was quite clear once i was listening for it ... i still think it is a computer related anomaly ...
i have aquired a specrum analyzer and it is a very noticeable spike in the extreme high end of the frequency spectrum ..

this has led me to a decision as follows:

realizing that the electronics present some audible noise artifacts seperate from the mic ..

i will record a sample of the mic preamp and and present it along with it's spectrum alalysis ..

i will then record a short segment with NO audio source demonstrating the mics self noise ... and include that spectrum analysis

if there is a way to subtract the preamp noise from the rest of the signal that would be cool. ( i don't know how to do this)

is there a computer program for this for mac?

then i will record different single note tones from my acoustic guitar .. including some high frequency harmonics ..

i would like to get a sample of white noise ... my amps and speakers have errors too (not to mention room interference) so i don't know how useful that would be .. ???

a lot of my equipment is in storage so getting a resonant frequency may take a bit more time ... sorry ...
is there some conclusion i can draw from test results (or just listening) that may suggest my current aproximate resonant frequency?
i managed to find my freqency generator but ... arghhh no leads .. :mad:

my apologies in adance for my limited knowledge on these subject ... your patience and understaning are sincerely appreciated.

thanks for all your help.
as always you help suggestions and kind comments are always welcome
thanks
ts
 
[quote author="ToobieSnack"]
OK assuming the trafo i have is not the perfect trafo for my ribbon mic ..

how is this incorrect trafo affecting my signal?[/quote]

I'm not sure if your transformer is all that incorrect. The primary DC resistance which you measured sounds in-range. It needs to be a similar impedance to your ribbon in order to pass the most power possib le from the ribbon to the primary. The next variable is the transformer ratio. This decides your output impedance (turns ratio squared * ribbon resistance) and also inherently how much the voltage is stepped up. You want to select the turns ratio to provide the appropriate output impedance (eg. 100 to 600 Ohms).

The Fum trafo should be ok if that is what you are using. I'm not sure about losses in cheap transformers, but I doubt it would make a significant dB difference.


ALSO i was reading on r*oyers website that transducers are measured for resonant frequency and them matched to trafo's depending on their measurement on a military inductance bridge ...

this might as well be a foriegn language to me ... what does this mean?

i guess what i am asking is :
what is the realtionship between ribbon resonant frequency and inductance of the trafo?

I think R*oyer are trying to achieve as closely matched mics as possible here. The relationship is probably the inductance of a transformer and bass frequency response of the transformer. Maybe if they get a mic with a slightly high resonant frequency (boomy) then they oair it with a transformer which will cause less bass response. A transformer guru would be handy here.

this has led me to a decision as follows:

realizing that the electronics present some audible noise artifacts seperate from the mic ..

i will record a sample of the mic preamp and and present it along with it's spectrum alalysis ..

i will then record a short segment with NO audio source demonstrating the mics self noise ... and include that spectrum analysis

if there is a way to subtract the preamp noise from the rest of the signal that would be cool. ( i don't know how to do this)

is there a computer program for this for mac?

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here? Are you trying to reduce the noise in your recording, or isolate the high frequency noise? Well, as with most audio signals, you can just combine them with one out of phase to cause cancellation (ie. one minus the other). This will probably not work with two different noise sources though because they will not be correlated -ie. they were not recorded at the same time.


is there some conclusion i can draw from test results (or just listening) that may suggest my current aproximate resonant frequency?
i managed to find my freqency generator but ... arghhh no leads .. :mad:

The best way to test resonant frequency is probably the method described on this forum. I've tried it and it and it requires decent equipment. What you could maybe try (very, very un-scientific) is record a frequency sweep from your monitors at a fairly long distance (say one metre). You may find a bump in the recorded response which would hint at the resonant frequency. I personally wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as your ribbon isn't too tight. My stone-age initial test is that it should wobble or vibrate when you gently blow on it (carefull! :razz: ).

If I were you, I'd read some stuff maybe on replacing the transformers in O*ktava mics since there was some good info about transformers there. Just search for "ribbon transformer". I wouldn't worry too much about the noise present in your recording - I doubt it came from the mic, unless it was EMI, in which case you should move further away from the computer.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing this baby on an acoustic :razz:

It sounded good to me on voice, so it should hopefully be quite promising!

[/quote]
 

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