calculating grid resistance.

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caps

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Jun 7, 2004
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In my research thus far, I have been unable to find out how to calculate grid resistance. Whats the formula.

I gather the actual point of the resistor has something to do with input impedance?

Im thinking of the grid resistor on the input stage, not further stages. thanks.
 
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you're trying to understand the actual grid resistance of a tube, it's close enough to infinite as not to matter much. If you're trying to figure out what resistor to connect from the grid of a tube to ground, that depends what you're trying to do. If you're connecting the secondary of a transformer to it, and it's a modern transformer, start with a resistor that's ten times the rated impedance of the transformer's secondary. (E.g., if the transformer is 150R:15k, use a 150k grid resistor.) If it's an old transformer, it may be designed to be used without a grid resistor at all.

If you don't know what is going to be feeding the grid of your tube, a good starting point is to use a grid resistor of 1 meg.

Peace,
Paul
 
> how to calculate grid resistance

Clarify the question.

The grid itself is near-infinite, at DC and bass, as long as it stays negative. Pencil in 100Megs and see if it matters.

(If it goes positive of the cathode, the grid impedance goes VERY low, like 1K, so we never do that in most audio.)

The grid resistor has to carry the grid leakage current but not load the audio source excessively. Since grid current is small, the resistor can be big. For most small tubes, 1 Meg is the maximum in all-round use. For power tubes it can be lower, expecially without self-bias, 100K or even 50K. Read the specs. In US practice, the rated max grid resistor is what we use; in EUR custom they like to go 70% of that. So for a tube rated "1 Meg Max", the US designer would use 1Meg, the EUR designer might use 680K. Not a big deal. The grid current is very variable so the max grid resistor is a worst-case spec: 99 of 100 12AX7s will be fine with 2Meg or 5Meg.

As Paul says, sometimes your source wants a certain load (instead of a super-light load). Transformers may have a suggested load for best treble response. Tone controls may use a resistor to set response. Assuming this is less than the tube's max grid resistor, you can use that to drain the grid leakage to ground.

The actual impedance looking into a grid, in audio systems, is the sum of grid leakage (~~100Megs), grid resistor (typically 1Meg), and tube capacitance. A few hundred pFd of capacitance will be down to 100K at 20KHz, 20K at 100KHz. So the total impedance runs about 1Meg from DC to 1KHz-2KHz and then falls toward 20K at 100KHz. The input impedance of a tube is NOT the grid resistor.... it may be close-enough for AM radio and 78-phono design, but in hi-fi you have to remember the capacitance. But most sources are low enough to work hi-fi: 12AX7 plate and plate resistor acts like a ~50K source, so it can drive a tube with 100pFd input capacitance up to about -3dB at 35KHz, -1dB at 17KHz, which was good-enough for many purposes.

When you get into radio carrier frequencies, the capacitance really bites. 100pFd at 1MHz is only 1.7K, and tube gain tends to about unity. We shift to low-C high-Gm tubes for wideband apps, tune-out the capacitance in narrow-band apps. But there is also a "resistive" impedance because the electrons don't move fast enough to cross in less than one cycle. RDM 3rd and 4th cover this, if you have to know. It only matters in tuned work; broadband work (and VHF tuned work) is so swamped in capacitance that a little resistance does not matter.
 
Thanks for taking the time to explain that PRR! :thumb:


I wonder if variable impedance pre amps substitute the grid resistor values to get different impedances. Would seem to work given the formula you mentioned in your post.

Anyway, thanks gain. :grin:
 
[quote author="caps"]I wonder if variable impedance pre amps substitute the grid resistor values to get different impedances. Would seem to work given the formula you mentioned in your post.[/quote]

Usually not; more often the variable impedance preamps use different taps on the input transformer. The resistor loading works too, but when you switch the resistor in and the impedance drops, the mic level drops, which worsens the signal-to-noise ratio. Using a different tap on the transformer, though, adds some "free gain" and the signal-to-noise ratio is usually not compromised.

Peace,
Paul
 
[quote author="pstamler"][quote author="caps"]I wonder if variable impedance pre amps substitute the grid resistor values to get different impedances. Would seem to work given the formula you mentioned in your post.[/quote]

Usually not; more often the variable impedance preamps use different taps on the input transformer. The resistor loading works too, but when you switch the resistor in and the impedance drops, the mic level drops, which worsens the signal-to-noise ratio. Using a different tap on the transformer, though, adds some "free gain" and the signal-to-noise ratio is usually not compromised.

Peace,
Paul[/quote]

Great info, thanks Paul. :thumb:
 
I believe the grid resistor might have some other aspects to it, such as when an unstable tube circuit results in grid blocking, positive grid current, and all that other stuff I will never understand, page 21 in my copy of RDH4, which can be downloaded by clicking on the UTC logo at www.vacuumbrain.com

:oops:
 

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