1176 with or with out input tranformers.....What did you do?

Ok, I tried searching the meta, but there is an overload of information. I have used several original 1176 (mostly early blackface, not the earlier blue stripe). I like the sound, but will not have one to directly compare mine to.


Dillema: I just completed stuffing two boards. The rack boxes are identical except one is a painted face the other is anodysed. So the next question is, do I add input transformers on both or one? I bought enough OEP to do either. Yes I could build both and try myself, but unstuffing the balanced input sections is not the cleanest work. And once I have it wired up, I probably will not take it back apart.

Has anyone built both styles? Which one gets used more? Will I later wish I had a matching pair vs two different versions?


I record mostly BLUES, Jazz, Swing and Country. But sometimes something more like funk. Never Rock or Metal....

Joe

Hey Joe,

I remember reading a while back that the OEP didn't work well as the input on the mnats board - the specs were off somehow.

I can't find the exact post, but I made a handwritten note in my notebook to use the OEP for the output and to "only use Lundahl for input."

Not exactly sure why. But you may want to search around a bit before using the OEP. If you've already stuffed the input section, I'd just leave them as is. Probably more like the "original" that way. (original 'later revision' that is.)

Kato

joe-

fyi, the "blackface" boxes have three totally and completely different things happening with them circuit wise, they all sound quite a bit different.

if you build it electronically balanced its going to be smoother sounding, if you build it with transformers its probably going to be bigger sounding. This of course is really general since if you use lundahls its gonna sound really unique compared to other transformer types, etc. In many ways an 1176 is just a big fuzz box so I never much got the idea of the smooth electronically balanced front end into a fuzz box, but it is an excellent way to tame the aggression of an 1176 if pulling it in that direction is appealing.

dave

I think that was because people were trying to use the A262A3E. I was later determined that you could use the A262A2E in both positions. I have only just barely got my first 1176 running and I only used the OEP on the output and 5532 input. But it sounds great even with no calibration.

Matt

LOL...this post was from back in March. Here's what I did after some help from Dave and others.

I made one with OEP In's and Outs, and one with electronically ballanced input and an OEP output. I have done many test between the both. Final thought? Well I like them both the same. I think anyone building one......should build two instead!

Electronic ballanced input and OEP output: More open, slightly brighter sounding. Seems the units overal distorition character is more prevelant with the opamp front end. Slightly more aggresive sounding in the mids too.

OEP input and output. (No Mu cans). Unit is quite without the MU covers. They are not needed...at least no in my rack. Much warmer sounding than the opamp version. Phatter too. For vocals, I like the transformer version if I used a bright mic like a U87. For darker mics, it is a toss up. If I were to use a u47 (don't have one..damn) I might lean toward the opamp input...but that would depend on the song. As sometimes the transformers just do magicical things.

Basically when I asked this question before....a bunch of people got on my ass, and said just make one of each and come up with your own conclusions. For me, that was just fine. I am a huge gear slut! So having extra compressors, is like an alcoholic having a few extra beers to choose from. I will build at least one more opamp input version. Must have two of everything..... . But ultimately, I like the big warm tone of the OEP in both positions. I will build one more of those too.

I have had a chance lately to use originals and my own. To me, they seem to compress the same. Have the same FET tone. The two originals sounded different from each other. My two fell somewhere in between both of them. Definitly had the 1176 flavor. Overall, I think with these units in my rack, I don't think the difference was enough for me to spend $1500 on a UREI.....unless is was a blue stripe...hee hee hee

Joe

[quote author="JRE Productions"]

Electronic ballanced input and OEP output: More open, slightly brighter sounding. Seems the units overal distorition character is more prevelant with the opamp front end. Slightly more aggresive sounding in the mids too.[/quote]

ha! shows you guys what I know, I would have thought this to be exactly the opposite. That was always my impression with the rev. g's, go figure.

dave

Dave,

As it turns out, in my case, the OEP on the input seems to be the smoother of the two versions. OEP definitly is darker, warmer and not quite as open on top. (Tone is tough to describe).

But for an electric guitar track, the opamp input rules!

Do you think there's some easy way to put a switch on it to switch between trafo/electronical?

I'm sure you must have thought about this at the time..

I'm going to start staring at my Mnats board to figure it out..

hejsan

Somewhere on the forum, there is a post about how to do that. Basically you need to place a switch between the output of the "input" section, and the rest of the board. Than do the same on the transformer section. Maybe a dpst connected to both outputs, and the rest of the board input. Then as one is switched out, the other is switched in.

I would have to sit down and think about it a while.....than come on the forum and ask anyway.

[quote author="JRE Productions"]OEP input and output. (No Mu cans). [/quote]

Do I understand it correctly that you're using twice an OEP '262A2E ?

Or still the 'A3E for input ?

Thanks,

Peter

[quote author="JRE Productions"]...Basically you need to place a switch between the output of the "input" section, and the rest of the board. Than do the same on the transformer section. Maybe a dpst connected to both outputs, and the rest of the board input. Then as one is switched out, the other is switched in.
[/quote]

Might be easier to just build 2. :grin:

:guinness: :sam:

One slightly darker than the other.
Did you say something about alcoholism?? We're all addicts here right?

[quote author="fucanay"]I think that was because people were trying to use the A262A3E. I was later determined that you could use the A262A2E in both positions. I have only just barely got my first 1176 running and I only used the OEP on the output and 5532 input. But it sounds great even with no calibration.
[/quote]

You mean 1540, right??

[quote author="kato"][quote author="fucanay"]I think that was because people were trying to use the A262A3E. I was later determined that you could use the A262A2E in both positions. I have only just barely got my first 1176 running and I only used the OEP on the output and 5532 input. But it sounds great even with no calibration.
[/quote]

You mean 1540, right??[/quote]

Umm, nope. All of the IC balanced BOMs I've seen say 5532.

I think you are confusing my comments. I meant that I chose to use the IC input as opposed to the transformer balanced input. But you can use OEP A262A2E for both input and output, I just chose not to.

Matt

oh whoops.
5532 is the IC; I understand now.

(I thought you meant you used the Lundahl input tx - as in LL1540.)

Glad to hear yours sounds good even without calibration. I've got my board stuffed - but it's going to be a while before I have the tools (and skills!) to do a proper callibration.

[quote author="JRE Productions"]Somewhere on the forum, there is a post about how to do that. Basically you need to place a switch between the output of the "input" section, and the rest of the board. Than do the same on the transformer section. Maybe a dpst connected to both outputs, and the rest of the board input. Then as one is switched out, the other is switched in.

I would have to sit down and think about it a while.....than come on the forum and ask anyway.[/quote]

Any idea what phrase to search on to hit this topic?

Also, anyone have a schematic that shows both? or at least the transfo input.

All I can seem to find is the old schem which just shows the 5532 inputs

I used MNATs boards, and his website. It is extremely helpfull. Basically for his boards, you either stuff the input transformer, or you stuff the section labeled input. One or the other, not both.


As far as a search for switching between transformers...I have no idea. I read the 55 pages 4 or 5 times to locate even the smallest details.


Yes I used the same OEP transformer for input and output without metal shields.