Author Topic: Patchbay Wiring?  (Read 3107 times)

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« on: April 11, 2006, 01:32:02 PM »
I just got a few switchcraft TT patchbays from some friends that were doing a studio wiring overhaul. Currently, I have no patchbays hooked up and I need some help wiring them. It's pretty confusing to me right now.

I want to connect my unbalanced inserts to the patchbay and be able to connect to balanced gear.

This is what I have, but isn't working completely.





It kind of works, but on one of the gear plugs it only works if the plug is half way in.

Any advice?

Matt


43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2006, 01:57:31 PM »
Fucanay,

     From your drawing it appears that you have the send from the board wired to the ring of the patchbay. Is this correct? I have heard that some Soundcraft, and perhaps others, are wired this way. Mine, and most I've seen are tip=send? What brand and model of board do you have?

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2006, 02:04:46 PM »
It also appears that in your second diagram that the "hot" is wired to the ring of the patchbay. i am, however, assuming that the red line is the "hot". If that is so, then connecting an unbalanced peice of gear will connect the sleeve of the unbalanced incorrectly. Are my assumptions correct? I'm a bit confused by where the plus and minus fall, over on the right side of diagram two.

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2006, 02:05:47 PM »
Sorry bout that. I have a Soundtracs MRX 32 and the inserts are wired ring send, tip receive. This being my first console, I didn't know that this was less common, so i didn't mention it. Thanks for the heads up.

I edited the picture to show the + and - in more proper locations. I have the ring as negative and the tip as positive.

Matt

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2006, 02:10:46 PM »
Quote from: "fucanay"
Sorry bout that. I have a Soundtracs MRX 32 and the inserts are wired ring send, tip receive. This being my first console, I didn't know that this was less common, so i didn't mention it. Thanks for the heads up.

Matt


Quite alright! I didn't know it was ever done that way till I read it on here. I think the problem might lay in the wiring of your "gear i/o" points.
Normally, I would wire a TRS jack with the "hot" to tip, the "cold" to ring, and ground to sleeve. That way when you plug a TS "unbalanced" plug into
the jack, the"cold" is tied to ground. Are yours done this way? Is the red wire in diagram two "hot" or "cold"?

edit:spelling

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2006, 02:14:31 PM »
Sorry, didn't see your edit!

Are your normals removed on the gear i/o's?

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2006, 02:19:04 PM »
It think I may have figured it out.

In diagram one, regardless of how your board is wired, doesn't the "hot" of the send need to appear at the tip of the jack? So that when you plug any standard piece of gear in, particularly unbalanced, the signal appears at the bay on the tip contact. Yep, I'm pretty sure the red wire on the top jack of diagram one needs to be wired to tip of the jack. That would explain it working at half-inserted. Also, move the normal down to the
"tip breaks" contact.

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2006, 02:40:57 PM »
That might be my problem actually. These are TT patchbays, so I don't have the option of using and unbalanced plug. Maybe I need to do something on the gear side of things, but I'm not sure that I'll want to alter factory stuff. The stuff I build is not an issue though.

Matt

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2006, 02:44:58 PM »
Quote from: "43hertz"
It think I may have figured it out.

In diagram one, regardless of how your board is wired, doesn't the "hot" of the send need to appear at the tip of the jack? So that when you plug any standard piece of gear in, particularly unbalanced, the signal appears at the bay on the tip contact. Yep, I'm pretty sure the red wire on the top jack of diagram one needs to be wired to tip of the jack. That would explain it working at half-inserted. Also, move the normal down to the
"tip breaks" contact.


Ahh, I'll try that. It makes sense now. I wired it up assuming that everything was normal with the way the inserts are wired on the console. But from what you're telling me, I actually need to have it wired ring send at the console to tip send on the patchbay. And then everything else as standard.

Like this?



I'll give it a go tonight and see if that works. I'm only doing one at a time until I can insure that it works the way it should.

Thanks

Matt

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2006, 03:14:42 PM »
Cool! :thumb:  Let us know if that's the trick!


moamps

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2006, 04:00:44 AM »
On the picture below is shown wiring method which I usually use:



Rob Flinn

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2006, 06:15:25 AM »
What you've done looks a bit strange to me.

For the inserts I connect the screen to the cold pin & do not connect to the sleeve at all.  The hot is connected to the tip

For the balanced pieces of gear I just wire as normal TRS.  With unbalanced pieces of gear I wire hot to tip & screen to sleeve.

I have found this sytem to work well & be noise free.
regards Rob

Capital letters.  The difference between helping your uncle Jack off his horse, & helping your uncle jack off his horse ........

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2006, 03:18:07 PM »
Yeah, my drawing above didn't work. I'm even more confused than ever, but I'll try the drawing moamps provided. These unbalanced inserts are really a pain in the ass. I would have preferred to have separate balanced send/return jacks. Maybe it's a mod I can make to the console, but I'm sure it would involve expensive transformers and lots of work. And what would I get for it other than easier patchbay wiring? Bah!

Matt

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 01:17:17 PM »
Excluding the outboard gear for now, I came up with this wiring scheme. How does it look to you?



Matt

43hertz

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 01:39:15 PM »
Quote from: "fucanay"
Excluding the outboard gear for now, I came up with this wiring scheme. How does it look to you?



Matt


That looks like to me it would work. Signal comes from ring send of the board to tip of patchbay send jack, through the normal to tip of patchbay return jack and back to tip return of board. Don't see how it could not work.  :thumb:

Rob Flinn

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 08:29:33 PM »
Quote
Excluding the outboard gear for now, I came up with this wiring scheme. How does it look to you?


Quote
Matt


That doesn`t look good to me.  If you are plugging in balanced outboard gear (wired connected as normal hot = tip, ring = cold, sleeve = ground on patchbay) you will be leaving the cold pin floating.  Your ground (from desk insert) should connect to the ring on the patchbay.  

With my patchbays I don`t connect to the ground (from the desk insert) to the sleeve on the patchbay at all.  I connect outboard gear that is balanced is connected as normal hot = tip, ring = cold, sleeve = ground  this seems to work well.  If you have some unbalanced outboard gear connect to tip & ring.  This way unbalanced or balanced gear will work.  I have used this method & have had people comment on how quiet it is.
regards Rob

Capital letters.  The difference between helping your uncle Jack off his horse, & helping your uncle jack off his horse ........

fucanay

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Patchbay Wiring?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2006, 12:05:39 AM »
Quote from: "Rob Flinn"

That doesn`t look good to me.  If you are plugging in balanced outboard gear (wired connected as normal hot = tip, ring = cold, sleeve = ground on patchbay) you will be leaving the cold pin floating.  Your ground (from desk insert) should connect to the ring on the patchbay.  

With my patchbays I don`t connect to the ground (from the desk insert) to the sleeve on the patchbay at all.  I connect outboard gear that is balanced is connected as normal hot = tip, ring = cold, sleeve = ground  this seems to work well.  If you have some unbalanced outboard gear connect to tip & ring.  This way unbalanced or balanced gear will work.  I have used this method & have had people comment on how quiet it is.


Thanks for the comments Rob. Do you have the means to draw out a diagram? I read the words and it confuses me a bit. Seeing the connections would help a lot.

Also, my console has a grounding point on the back and I'm wondering if that is going to be useful for this. Any ideas on how to wire that up as well?

Thanks

Matt


 

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