Suggest a big clean DIY pre?

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TheGuitarist

TheGuitarist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
495
Location
Australia
Just wondering if anyone can suggest a big clean pre build, alot of the metas etc don't really explain what the builds sound like. I still have no idea what a green pre sounds like.

I know a 9k is a nice clean pre but it sounds like one of the parts is becoming harder to come by these days. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
 
9K is a lovely clean pre and highly recommended, you just get a louder version of what you plug in !
Green pre is similar but has a bit of colour ( Amek pre IIRC )
You could also try one of the many THAT chip-amps which are easy to source parts and very clean
think DAV BG-1 type pre's

MM.
 
MartyMart said:
9K is a lovely clean pre and highly recommended, you just get a louder version of what you plug in !
Green pre is similar but has a bit of colour ( Amek pre IIRC )
You could also try one of the many THAT chip-amps which are easy to source parts and very clean
think DAV BG-1 type pre's

MM.
Click to expand...
Isn't the 9K build based on the SSL desks? Doesn't the SSL have a signature on them?
 
Stay away from chips if you like transparency.

Build a twin-servo 990 type preamp, with some modern discrete opamps, like the ones ppa sells around here.

It's flat to stupid high dolphin frequencies, and basically only depends on the performance of your transformers.

Does not have sound, only amplification, lots of extremely clean gain.

Taking it further to clean, ppa was mentioning some transformerless design he was working on based on his discrete op amps. Probably something you might be interested in.
 
At this point they all sound pretty good so
it's as much a matter of what will be a successful build for you
On some sources there may be less percieved differences
I use allot of my pres for default sources [ on drums & such ]
but occasionaly mix it up to keep myself listening
my performance holds me back waay more the quality of any pre
 
canidoit said:
MartyMart said:
9K is a lovely clean pre and highly recommended, you just get a louder version of what you plug in !
Green pre is similar but has a bit of colour ( Amek pre IIRC )
You could also try one of the many THAT chip-amps which are easy to source parts and very clean
think DAV BG-1 type pre's

MM.
Click to expand...
Isn't the 9K build based on the SSL desks? Doesn't the SSL have a signature on them?
Click to expand...
"SSL desks" is altogether too vague.

The E series imposed a 'sound' on the signal, after it had been through the pres, the EQs, the channel dynamics, the several summing stages, back through the amplifier cards, back through the EQ, back through the dynamics card, through the mix buses and whomped by the buss compressor...

SO they made the G-series more 'transparent'...

Then they made the 9000 series.

No VCAs in the signal path ANYWHERE unless you actively switch them in. -Not even in the master fader. (earlier Es and G's had VCAs permanently in circuit, on large faders and mix bus... and you couldn't take them out). thousands of FET switches removed, and ALL coupling capacitors removed from the signal path within the console.

The notion of an "SSL SOUND" being imposed by the console became an absolute fallacy from that moment on, though many still seem to think there's an 'SSL sound'.

Of course, ALL SSL consoles still allow you to shape the sound in exactly the same way, even adding more options.

But nowadays, SSL 'superanalogue' design really does illustrate an absolutely obsessive drive to make the signal path capable of producing clean, un-coloured, natural sound... while still allowing the same flexible processing ability as that for which they became famous.

So -in short- No. ;)

Keith
 
TheGuitarist said:
I know a 9k is a nice clean pre but it sounds like one of the parts is becoming harder to come by these days. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

Svart said:
yeah, build one before you CAN'T get the parts anymore!
Click to expand...

Or, more practically, first get your hands on a MAT-02 and only then get the boards and the other parts. You certainly won't regret having built a SSL9k, but you will regret having all parts except for the input transistors gathering dust on your shelf.

The 9k I have is quite clean, the Green only slightly less so. The Jensen Twin Servo or any of the designs inspired by it (JLM and SCA have one, I believe) are quite clean if you go for the expensive transformers.

JDB.
[my discrete mic pre project is designed to be very clean, too, but isn't out of proto just yet. Not much use if you need something right now]
 
SSLtech said:
"SSL desks" is altogether too vague.

The E series imposed a 'sound' on the signal, after it had been through the pres, the EQs, the channel dynamics, the several summing stages, back through the amplifier cards, back through the EQ, back through the dynamics card, through the mix buses and whomped by the buss compressor...

SO they made the G-series more 'transparent'...

Then they made the 9000 series.

No VCAs in the signal path ANYWHERE unless you actively switch them in. -Not even in the master fader. (earlier Es and G's had VCAs permanently in circuit, on large faders and mix bus... and you couldn't take them out). thousands of FET switches removed, and ALL coupling capacitors removed from the signal path within the console.

The notion of an "SSL SOUND" being imposed by the console became an absolute fallacy from that moment on, though many still seem to think there's an 'SSL sound'.

Of course, ALL SSL consoles still allow you to shape the sound in exactly the same way, even adding more options.

But nowadays, SSL 'superanalogue' design really does illustrate an absolutely obsessive drive to make the signal path capable of producing clean, un-coloured, natural sound... while still allowing the same flexible processing ability as that for which they became famous.

So -in short- No. ;)

Keith
Click to expand...

My recollection from back in the day, was that the rap on SSLs was that they had a sound but people tolerated that to get the automation. Good to hear they moved beyond that (hard to imagine they wouldn't, the early VCAs were a challenge for everybody).

IMO about the only valid "sound" character a console should have is how their EQs interact with the input sources. Yes, Virginia EQs are different. I am actually in contact with the AES standards committee (for two years now) to get them to define what Q means for simple peak/cut equalizers. While there is universal agreement that Q or bandwidth is defined by -3dB half power points for bandpass, or filter transitions, boost/cut EQ sections, generated from a root bandpass, can exhibit different wave shapes for different amounts of boost/cut. So two console EQ even specified to have the same Q and center frequency could be and sound very different, due to how different topologies act.

Hopefully we will come up with a unified way to specify Q and be able to properly characterize equalizers in technical terms. Until then we will just have different flavors of EQ..  Some terms thrown around now are constant Q, proportional Q, etc...

JR
 
The Great River project should fit:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=20333.0

Fully discrete.
 
The Guitarist

Do Joe Malones Baby Animal. It's is so flexible you can make to your own taste simply by your choice of input xformer and op-amp. Clean and fast  or slow and fat.  It is dead easy to build, sounds truly amazing. It really does. In fact I often choose it over clone builds I have of more "named" preamps . Particularly on vocals.

As your in Aust you may find it very easy to speak with Joe if you need some advice/assistance.
 
I'll second the great river mp2. Get the kits from ptown kid!
I'm building mine now. Cinemag cmmi5c input tranny and I could use some advice on an output tranny that would give some color/balls to this very clean design.

And I think that would be a great topic, coloration with respect to transformers...
Does loading down an output tranny give more/less saturation? What do you look for in a transformer when you want more/less color? And then, there is the matter of circuit design in achieving clean or colored output...
 
I don't know that the Great River is the easiest build and not the smallest
parts count BUT it is  GREAT preamp , lucky for us that Dan stopped building
them and offered up the design  , Very generous

It Sounds totally great without the output Xfmr , and as in mine adds a slight
color with the high Nickle version  , i'd assume that the 50% steel core output
would add a little more color depending on how hard you drive it .
definitly add the unbal out if you are already using a transformer , it's a good option

there's a variety of Cinemags [ chosse a 1:4 approx input ] to choose from
and the Lundahl 1538 xl is also nice [ i use both ]
 
okgb said:
I don't know that the Great River is the easiest build and not the smallest
parts count BUT it is  GREAT preamp , lucky for us that Dan stopped building
them and offered up the design  , Very generous
Click to expand...

Dan's one of the good guys, for sure.

Another vote for the GR, I have Dan's 4 channel prototype here that he was kind enough
to sell me years ago. I use it on anything that needs a big clear sound. I don't miss the transformer
on the output at all.

Mark
 
I have a pair of JLM Dual 99V preamps with JLM input transformers and 4804 output transformers.  I feel these preamps are the perfect blend of detail and muscle.  My only regret is not buying more, as they have been discontinued.  I gather their spirit lives on in the Baby Animal Dual.
 
Hee hee. I can't help but think that "Big" and "Clean" may thrust in opposing directions... depending on whether you want to embiggen the source or merely transfer its actual size. I want a little warning on some of my preamps: "Objects in preamp may appear larger than actual size"

I can vouch for the John Hardy pres being so fast that you hear more of the little details surrounding/supporting/distracting-from the source, I would characterize it as being able to see into the grain of the source.

You can make a very clean pre from the JLM Baby Animal Dual. My latest has a Lundahl LL1538 feeding two FETBlokes. Very clean and clear and fast, though I haven't had a chance yet to compare it to the Hardy's or Syteks or Jung-Markell designs.
 
1 up for Joes BA's...mine are sweet ...99v's and a pair with burr browns and some rusty old iron on the outputs.

different icecream flavours for different days of the week!!


Mac
 

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