G1176 (rev F) : how it works in details...

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ricothetroll

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Jul 5, 2005
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Hi,

As I built two of those and I'm getting more and more interested in electronic theory, I took a look at the schematic of the 1176 and tried to figure out how it was designed. I must say that I'm pretty confused ! Most designs I've seen until now are (with a few exceptions) pretty straightforward with little knowledge on basic circuits (common emitter, emitter follower, op-amps basics...) but that one looks like it has a lot of subtilities, and lots of weird feedbacks everywhere.

Starting with the preamp, I really do not get R11 between Q2's base and (near) Q3's emitter. Is that some kind of retro action ? How is Q2 biased anyway ? Is it current controlled (R1 in series...) ? What about C2 ? And the emitter of Q4 linked with Q2's one through R21 and R16 ?

The rest of the schematic is also full of questions for me, but that's a beginning !

Any clue will be appreciated !

Best regards.

Eric
 
Come on I just can't believe so many people here built the circuit without understanding its internal operation ! ::)

Looking at it once again I figured out that some "not so weird" negative feedback was done through R11 (signal is inverted at the emitter of Q3, related to Q2's base), but I still don't get why some of the "pure" AC signal (in opposition to the DC signal from the control path) goes to Q1's gate ! Did they figure out the gain reduction was better (Q1 acting more linear ?) like this ? The paths I'm talking about are the one from Q1's emitter and the one from Q3's emitter.

Best regards.

Eric
 
Q2 is biased through R11. Initially Q3 will start to conduct, because the base is connected to a positive voltage via R12. The voltage on the junction R19/R20 will rise and Q2 will start to conduct through R11. The voltage on the base of Q3 now will become lower and the whole situation will stabilize, thus setting the correct bias.
 
> I really do not get R11 between Q2's base and (near) Q3's emitter. ... How is Q2 biased anyway?

This is THE slickest way to bias two transistors. 95% of all 2 or 3 transistor phono preamps did it this way; also a ton of Pro gear from inputs to outputs.

Where can Q1 get any base bias current except through R11?

What is Q2's current here? (Assume Si transistors.)
nqcpz8.jpg


We should know that if the circuit biases itself in a linear mode, Q1 base-emitter voltage is sure to be in the 0.5V-0.7V zone.

Let's pretend the resistor from Q2 emitter to Q1 base drops "no" voltage.

Then Q2 emitter must be at 0.5V-0.7V, That is the only way it will work. Starting from scratch, you can't be sure it will work; but we know the G1176 does work.

If Q2 emitter is at 0.5V-0.7V and has 1K, then Q2 current is obviously 0.5mA-0.7mA.

If Q1 has a large collector load resistor, its current is low and its Vbe is probably 0.5V. Therefore we refine Q2 current as 0.5mA.

If Q2 is loaded in 22K, the 22K at 0.5mA drops 11V. If the supply is +20V, the collector will sit at 20V-11V= 9V, and will be able to swing down near 1V and up near 19V (depending what comes after). This is a useful swing.

You have to understand this basic building-block first.

In the actual G1176, there's more stuff. Notably Q2 emitter is jacked up 0.51V by the DC path from Q3 emitter. And Q3 emitter resistor (the part Q1 base sees) is almost double. These two changes give nearly the same result as my example: 0.63mA.

We must check the "no voltage" assumption about the first transistor's base bias resistor. Two ways: look at collector current, know that base current is much smaller, and compare the resistors R12 and R11. Second base is at just a few volts, so most of the 25V appears on R12. R11 voltage drop is less, because it is only 560K say half, and mostly because the first transistor hFE is like 300. 23V/(2*300) is 0.04V drop in R11. This is small compared to the 0.5V Vbe and other bias factors. (Which is good, because real hFE may be 100 or 500; it's all small, so no great change.) _OR_ since we have observed voltages, compute the 0.63mA in 1.8K and compare to observed 1.02V at the other end of R11. This says more like 0.11V.... but the observation was taken with a 10Meg-20Meg meter, which will load the 0.56Meg R11 significantly. The student should compute the approximate meter loading for hisself.

> And the emitter of Q4 linked with Q2's one through R21 and R16?

What is the voltage gain through the three transistors? Depending on the actual parts used (hFE will matter) it may be 5,000 or 200,000. Different cold or hot or unit to unit. What gain do we want? Assuming 0.1V max at FET and up to 5V out, a total gain of 50 which MUST be uniform day-day unit-unit. The Q5-Q9 stage has gain of 3, so we need gain of 20 in the Q2-Q4 chain, fixed by good resistors not sloppy transistors. R21 and R13R14 are NFB to force the gain to 20. This is another basic connection you MUST absorb. Since worst-case Q2-Q4 have open loop gain of 5K, 250 times more than the NFB forces, the error will be under 1%.

> What about C2?

Ah, well, here's a trick. FET conductivity depends on voltage from gate to either end. In amplifiers one end (drain) has large voltage. But here both ends are at nearly the same voltage except one end is wiggling up and down with signal. So the average gate-channel voltage varies with signal. And conductivity varies with signal. And one side of the wave is shunted more than the other. The trick is to mix a little signal into the gate-channel voltage. R13 R14 R7 R9 form a bridge which I will not pretend to explain, but I assume works to correct FET gate-channel conductivity. (Specially since that's what R16 is supposed to fine-trim.)
 
Hi,

Thanx a lot for those great explanations !

I've never heard about that biasing technique. I've looked for further explanations about it in the "Art of Electronics" but found nothing about it (I also took a look in GJ Ritchie's "Transistor Circuit Techniques" I freshly got but I might have missed it, as I'm not so familiar with that book yet). Does that technique have a name ? What are the advantages of it compared to the usual ones (voltage divider, shunt feedback...) ?

Might be an over simplified point of view, but the very high open loop gain combined with large amount of negative feedback reminds me of an op amp, am I right ? Excepted there's no real differential input here.

Talking about op amps, that might be kinda naive but, are there nowadays still advantages to design such discrete circuits, compared to opamp circuits, easier to design ? I guess for classic units like 1176, it's justified to get the tone of the original unit.

Best regards

Eric

PS : sorry for the late answer, I was on holidays for a week without any internet connection...
 

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