interesting experiment : G1176 vs Plugin

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andre tchmil

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demoing the Waves CLA plugins today and had this interesting idea:
Duplicated a snare track , loaded on one channel the CLA76 , the G1176 on the other.
Dialed in the same settings on both and after a little input gain tweaking on the G , I could create a complete Null, phase inverted of course.
So what did we learn today: since the Waves are modeled after some great units, the G1176 holds up pretty well.
oh and it's the original 2003 model, straight from the Gyraf site , no tweaks.

Try it !!
 
andre tchmil said:
demoing the Waves CLA plugins today and had this interesting idea:
Duplicated a snare track , loaded on one channel the CLA76 , the G1176 on the other.
Dialed in the same settings on both and after a little input gain tweaking on the G , I could create a complete Null, phase inverted of course.
So what did we learn today: since the Waves are modeled after some great units, the G1176 holds up pretty well.
oh and it's the original 2003 model, straight from the Gyraf site , no tweaks.

Try it !!

I need evidence ???
 
andre tchmil said:
the G1176 holds up pretty well.


I am almost petrified of asking this question for fear of turning our wonderful board into a gearslutz pig circus, but what on earth does this mean?  Holds up well? How well? In what way?  

As a peripheral thought, I like my hardware irrespective of is sonic character vs software issues: I simply like soldering and building electronics!
 
simonsez said:
andre tchmil said:
demoing the Waves CLA plugins today and had this interesting idea:
Duplicated a snare track , loaded on one channel the CLA76 , the G1176 on the other.
Dialed in the same settings on both and after a little input gain tweaking on the G , I could create a complete Null, phase inverted of course.
So what did we learn today: since the Waves are modeled after some great units, the G1176 holds up pretty well.
oh and it's the original 2003 model, straight from the Gyraf site , no tweaks.

Try it !!

I need evidence ???

Sure , but how do I upload " silence " ?  ;D
 
reanimatorstudio said:
How much of compression?

1:12  7dB or so.
What I mean with this test is that the characteristics of the G1776 comes damn close to the Blackface "modeled" version. Coincidence ? maybe, but try to match the bombfactory 76 with the Waves and you will see what I mean.
 
deuce42 said:
andre tchmil said:
the G1176 holds up pretty well.


I am almost petrified of asking this question for fear of turning our wonderful board into a gearslutz pig circus, but what on earth does this mean?  Holds up well? How well? In what way?  

As a peripheral thought, I like my hardware irrespective of is sonic character vs software issues: I simply like soldering and building electronics!


It's not about who sounds better.
I don't own an original hardware unit and wanted to see how close I could come with my DIY. For personal satisfaction only.
Amen
 
andre tchmil said:
I could create a complete Null, phase inverted of course.

A complete null seems highly unlikely, how did you measure this?

It would be impossible to create a complete null with two hardware 1176's of the same revision due to the tolerances of the components used...
 
Null, smull; the most important question is - how does it sound.

I find the G1176 w/Lundall transformers *very* clean sounding compared to a REV A, REV D or even a REV F with the proper, original iron.

I've read developer blogs/interviews where they say it's very difficult to model an 1176 because it's attack time is less than half a sample in length. With that said, I find the Waves emulation to be quite usable and sound very close to the real thing. I use the plugin when I don't have enough 1176's to go around.

Mark
 
Biasrocks said:
Null, smull; the most important question is - how does it sound.

Nah, this is not GS. Here we have facts and measurements.
A complete null is impossible even with two units of the same revision.
There will always be measurable residue left...not a lot maybe, but measurable so no null.

I mean, a null test resulting in -30dB  is already very close...but easily measurable.
A complete null is a false claim and misleading...
 
Ok this can go on for years. Evidence please. Upload the 2 soundfiles

I mean, a null test resulting in -30dB  is already very close...but easily measurable.
A complete null is a false claim and misleading...
That's what I was thinking too. Maybe -40 dB but not more
 
radiance said:
andre tchmil said:
I could create a complete Null, phase inverted of course.

A complete null seems highly unlikely, how did you measure this?

It would be impossible to create a complete null with two hardware 1176's of the same revision due to the tolerances of the components used...


How I measured this ? By ear.
Like I said before maybe it's pure coincidence.
Besides, what would I gain with telling  jokes.
 
Biasrocks said:
I consider my ears the best finders of fact, of course your mileage may vary.  8)

How about a link to your results?

Something that is repeatedly measurable with the same results can be considered a fact.
Your ears will present you with data that you (and only you) may interpret differently depending on what mood you're in, the room temperature, the weather (air pressure) etc. etc.
The outcome of this can hardly be classified as fact.

What results are you talking about?
 
ok ok gentlemen, maybe I shouldn't have used the scientific word Null.
But in my audio world is "silence" a phenomenon when I can't hear a thing even when it's there. Could be my ears, age, mood or a weak monitoring system ;D
Perhaps I'm more a GS than a prodigy child, who cares. All I wanted to share is that the G1176 is a damn fine clone OK ?

PS: I will put up my metering tools next time I come up with something , or simply see the doctor.

 
Here's a quick test that I did.

Waves Blacky vs my REV F w/original iron
Waves Bluey vs my REV A w/UTC 012 and Ed's 5002 output

Tracks were sent out through a Benchmark DAC-1 to the outboard and printed back through an Apogee AD-16X, at 88.2kHz, 24bit. Files were gain adjusted for the best null (wasn't able to achieve 100%). Same settings were used on the software and hardware versions of the limiter.

http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-BlueWaves.wav
http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-BlueA.wav

http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-Blue-Null.wav

http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-BlackWaves.wav
http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-BlackF.wav

http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/1176%20Compare/1176-Plugin-Black-Null.wav

Mark
 
Can you save the two to a stereo file so mono'ing
for null , one can flip quicker between sides ?

blue a [ 2nd file ] sounded a little smaller to me , slightly\a size thing

rev f  [ 2nd file ]   trk sounded a little bigger this time
[ slightly more complex ? ]

can someone shut the drummer up !

I think the null is important for matching levels , louder usually
seems better .
Also WITHOUT comparison of one to another
, judgment will take on different characteristics

thanks for taking the time
 
This is the first post I have ever read that someone is trying to prove their hardware is as good as software. It's usually the other way around.  :-\
 
Of course depends on what you're listening with
speakers headphones open back
but
saying that the software doesn't do it
could be like saying the software misses it
 
canidoit said:
This is the first post I have ever read that someone is trying to prove their hardware is as good as software. It's usually the other way around.  :-\

Exactly what I was thinking. Shouldn't the OP have said Waves holds up pretty well compared to the G1176, instead of the other way around?
 

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