Main Balanced Power Conditioner - mission "diy" impossible ?

hey to everybody
a "nice"
Main power source is essential in the audio production "rooms" ,
and much more in mastering ,
(...sometime also  hi-fi and video...)

many guys don't give sufficient importance,
others just ignore it ..........

many many very nice "projects" run inside this "house"....

and I think that these projects would be very "happy"
if the power energy they need to process the sound tracks
came from an appropriate source ,

then : it's a mission "diy" impossible , build a good Balanced Power Conditioner ?

thanks from now to anybody
(.. also girl  .. ......)
will post the proper opinion , contribution , scheme , image , link ,  etc.... about,

peace !

Hi R2,

I googled "balanced a.c. power" a while back and I came up with several sites addressing this. I just keep putting it off to later... you know how it is :      Here is one of the links.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/feature-article-isolation-transformer-8-2003.html

It seems that the "hi-fi" guys are ahead of us on this one...

Sylvain

Oh, and check here also... 8)

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8452

Sylvain

r2d2 said:

hey to everybody
a "nice" Main power source is essential in production audio "rooms" and much more in mastering

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I would say good grounding and layout of power are indeed important.

(also hi-fi and video)

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Not the same; HiFi and video use mainly unbalanced signals that are very sensitive to chassis differential voltage. In mastering, all connections are supposed to be balanced, and thus much less sensitive to these interferences.

many guys don't give sufficient  importance,

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It's your opinion, but many members here are very much aware of this subject.

others just ignore it

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Their loss...

many many very nice projects run inside this "house"....

and I think that these projects would be very "happy"
if the energy they need to process the sound tracks
came from an appropriate source

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It sure can do no harm.

then it's a mission "diy" impossible build a good Balanced Power Conditioner?

Click to expand...

Balanced power is basically a big isolation transformer, with a center-tapped secondary. A lot of iron and copper; now, you can DIY a transformer, just takes some patience. I'm not sure you can save much by doing it yourself. The savings may probably come from not having an expensive chassis and a more expensive logo...
If I wanted balanced power, I would have a professional make the transformer for me and I would put it in a wooden crate.
BTW, there is an alternative to balanced power, it's floating power, and it has the same benefits in terms of noise rejection. For this, you need an isolation transformer. These are 1:1 transformers with very low primary-to-secondary stray capacitance (<120pF) and they are commonly available in powers ranging from 4VA (for razors) to 4kVA.
Beware that these transformers are designed for personal safety, they are not specifically optimized for noise reduction, so, in particular, as any transformer, they radiate quite a lot of magnetic field. If you put one of these close to your sensitive equipment, you may end up with worse results!
And finally, your installation would probably be in violation with some local rule (countries differ in that respect); be sure to check the safety of the complete system.

Sylvain D. said:

It seems that the "hi-fi" guys are ahead of us on this one...

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Their customers are just more gullible...

If you search "balanced power", this has been covered in a lot of depth & there are lots of opinions that vary quite radically.   

Personally I side with the school of thought that just having properly wired mains & good grounding schemes make more difference at a lot less cost, & a lot less stray radiated magnetic fields generated.

But the choice is obviously yours.

after 10 rewired studios, in my experience, crucial moment is to have good grounding scheme. Aditional grounding for rack chasis (potential leveling), ensuring that overall potential difference of ground in various points of system is smallest possible, and ofcourse, star grounding of everithing in studio to chasis of mixing desk. Also, sepatare ground (ground probe, or perhaps, copper plate,..) is not a bad idea, if possible.

I've tried balanced power... it really works, and makes wonders, BUT, without proper grounding scheme, system WILL be noisy to some point, but much better than with out balanced power.

i've tried scheme with isolation transformer, and power conditioner from FURMAN.

I liked FURMAN, beacouse it works also as mains stabiliser, and filter... well spent 2-2,5 thousand Euros...

best, Ivica

Last week I rewired a small studio. A good mains isolation and proper neutral and ground connections are the key to a clean operation.

In the past I also made my own mains conditioner/isolation transformer(s) using two back to back transformers that I salvaged from faulty UPS units. It certainly works but you have to address the safety issues well. Otherwise it can be lethal.

I was just thinking about this the other day... My plan was to just get a balanced power trafo made (60-0-60 for me), ground the center tap, and wire the outlet live and neutral each to one side of the secondary.  Not sure if it matters which gets wired to which?

As abbey mentioned, I think it's very important to have the transformer wound by a professional.

Besides someone wiring an outlet neutral to ground at the outlet (pretty rampant here as most older places don't have an ground wiring) how else can this system be dangerous?

having worked and teched  in both types of studios, I can say most people who run balanced power notice a difference due to the fact that when the set up for balance power the ultimately are fixing the electrical in the process of wiring for a balanced power system.  So the balanced power is deemed to make more of an impact. In a properly set up electrical system I find it hard to notice a different between the 2. The studio designer of the last studio I wired and set up is also the owner of ground 1. He charges mucho denero for his electrical expertise and advise.

IN short he charges a lot of money to set up what we already know

A good mains isolation and proper neutral and ground connections are the key to a clean operation.  I heard before and after with a test rig he has. It's a cheap guitar pick up that is ultimately wired to a small speaker. with the power is clean you do not hear anything. When the power is dirty, You hear all kinds of hash...

They go as far as to make a drop in mains isolation transformer and breaker box that is sold as an all in one unit for 12,000 dollars but they doing nothing special other then providing it so you don't have to source anything.

mitsos said:

Besides someone wiring an outlet neutral to ground at the outlet (pretty rampant here as most older places don't have an ground wiring) how else can this system be dangerous?

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The safety ground that comes from the local electricity supply is actually a second seperate neutral that connects to the neutral at the generator. So the idea is that if the neutral is broken then current returns through the safety ground.

By wiring neutral to the safety ground on the wall outlet you are actually providing a safety in terms of leakage to the chassis of the equipment. Imagine the switch of the equipment has failed and the neutral contact is open. The current leakes through the stray capacitance (of the say transformer) and returns through the chassis and onto the mains neutral.

However, the problem becomes when the neutral is broken in the mains lead, your domestic installation or on the way from the local supply. Then you have the return current waiting at the chassis of the equipment. As soon as you touch it you provide a path to the earth. It becomes lethal.

sahib said:

mitsos said:

Besides someone wiring an outlet neutral to ground at the outlet (pretty rampant here as most older places don't have an ground wiring) how else can this system be dangerous?

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The safety ground that comes from the local electricity supply is actually a second seperate neutral that connects to the neutral at the generator. So the idea is that if the neutral is broken then current returns through the safety ground.

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That depends on which country you happen to live in

Indeed.

In terms of UK below link has a very simple but good explanation.

http://static.myhammer.com/v3/user_generated/upload/binary/11/1/5648_2005_16_autumn_wiring_matters_earthing_your_questions_answered1.pdf

Thanks for the article. When you say generator, do you mean the meter?

Here we mostly have to do grounds ourselves.. Power company provides 2 hots and neutral, (for 220 or 110). We have both but mostly use 110.  Code dictates ground rods bonded to the neutral at the meter AFAIK, but I don't trust any electricians here! Our house is 25 years old, so none of this applies, of course.  I had terrible electrical problems when we moved here (60V on my equipment chassis!), which magically disappeared the past couple of months, though I did deactivate a bunch of circuits we don't use every day, but turning them on doesn't bring back the jolt, and I don't want to go hunting around... Since the house is rented I don't want to rewire everything, and would prefer a "band-aid" that I can take with me to the next house if/when we move, hence the transformer idea.

Anyway, I've only now started talking to winders about making the trafo for me, some huge EI probably.

With "generator" I meant the first source. But the principal remains the same on the following stages of the power reaching you.

In terms of the voltage drop on your equipment chassis, there is a great possibility that it is caused by the bad Neutral/Ground (if there is ground) connection on the main panel of your building or even further down the line. They may have corrected it later, hence (magically) the disappearance of the voltage drop.