Spring Reverbs

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abechap024

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Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
2,303
Location
Provo, UT
Sound Awesome!

bought some off ebay and have been wiring them up various ways...I'm just surprised on how great they can sound
IMHO
 
I found a good deal. 6 tanks all working for i think 20 bucks.

I found I like these circuits work the best (and simple!) http://roymal.tripod.com/reverb.htm. And I am using a opa2107 and it sounds really good on some of the higher impedance tanks. Also it is my understanding that to get more HF response you need more current, but I found I prefer the darker sound, it sounds more natural to me...also I've heard that not driving the springs too hard and using more makeup gain is the best for a natural sound and its totally true!

Though I really like the "wet" sound of a boinging reverb. But I like weird stuff

Also have an old pentium 3 server....nice big case...and now its housing 4 spring units. Going to hook up the 2 that sound most the same in a M/S setup and see how that sounds for stereo...

 
sounds like great fun!
photos and audio examples pleaseeee...  ;D
 
Haha! I was planning on recording some of the audio from the units to test M/S in the box to see if M/S is even worth it, they sound pretty good stereo as is. I'll try to pass along some pics and examples:)
Cheers,
Abe
 
abechap024 said:
Going to hook up the 2 that sound most the same in a M/S setup and see how that sounds for stereo... I was planning on recording some of the audio from the units to test M/S in the box to see if M/S is even worth it, they sound pretty good stereo as is.

With Mid Side it isn't as important that the two springs match.  The difference in tone and reverb time will become a difference in width after the MS process.  You might try a longer reverb tank on the side, which I think would make the tails move out wider.  Or maybe just a reverb on the side. 
 
That's so cool! I love spring reverb. My amp always sounds better even with the reverb turned all the way down. Would I love to have a case filled with different spring reverbs? Hell yeah! Nice job Abe. Would love to see a pic or 2.
 
yeah man i also love a spring reverb...sshhhhh!!!dont tell anyone!! ;D

i have an old wem halle cat and it sounds lovely. its a bit noisy but im not sure if its the reverb or the electronics circuit. i saw somewhere that some guys were doubling them up like humbucker pickups to reduce noise figure. i was considering trying this sometime.

but yeah abe, photos man!!
 
hey abe,
i looked at that a while back and have two tanks waiting for the project.
came to the conclusion that i didnt know enough to finalise it and just played with running a signal through my guitar amp.


did you a balancing/de-balancing on either end or just use it unbalanced?

EDIT: removed my guitar question, see below
 
At this point spring reverbs are mature to say the least, but there is still some mojo involved in the wire springs themselves, they are not all the same.  I recall a hard time sourcing reverb pans in China that didn't suck, until they figured out how to make them. They looked like US springs just didn't sound like US springs. Peavey was actually shipping US made reverb pans to China back in the early days to manufacture low cost amps over there that still sounded right.

As I recall the drive circuits optimally want to look like current sources (relatively easily mimicked with positive feedback). The receivers are pretty straightforward low noise preamps.

Modern technology might help the return side with lower noise ICs, but sends could even use some old glass technology, to benefit from the naturally high source impedance of tubes.

I also recall that springs can be overdriven, so don't over do the driver peak output power, while high impedance drive transducers will need decent drive voltage.

When dealing with unknown springs you will need to figure out what you have, and be prepared that the best drive electronics won't help crap springs. 

JR

PS: I'm not sure that doubling up springs will improve S/N since the signal is so diffuse you won't get the typical coherent vs incoherent 3dB benefit from doubling. Modern lower noise electronics should help the return, if drive signal is clean. Also be careful about applying single ended or companding NR to reverb, as that will mess with the natural reverb decay.
 
They do sound awesome. I often choose my stereo Master Room XL-305 over my lexicons :)
Would be interested in DIY'ing a couple more, though, hehe  ;D
 
BradAvenson said:
abechap024 said:
Going to hook up the 2 that sound most the same in a M/S setup and see how that sounds for stereo... I was planning on recording some of the audio from the units to test M/S in the box to see if M/S is even worth it, they sound pretty good stereo as is.

...You might try a longer reverb tank on the side, which I think would make the tails move out wider.  Or maybe just a reverb on the side.  

That is a good idea. Also...it would be cool to have some switches and side/mid long/short mixing knobs...for some options :)

abbey road d enfer said:
You may be interested in this thread.
http://www.picocompressorforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=213&sid=ddb973fa514aa45a3a4ede3051cfb071

Awesome!  thanks for that, looks like lots of good info to sink my brain into.

Good to see people feel the same about these amazing little metal spring devices. Pics and sound clips to come. esp. documenting different M/S stuff
Cheers,
abe
 
apologies for silly question earlier, i was thinking about the general guitar gadgets schem.

probably a good place to reference tho, just as well, that one just uses a tlo74 and was put into a guitar chain.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/25-reverb/43-stage-center-reverb
 
kepeb said:
...did you a balancing/de-balancing on either end or just use it unbalanced?

Hi,
For now because the echo sends on my desk are currently unbalanced and noise hasn't been an issue, i'll probably leave the circuit unbalanced.
You should try that circuit on that website I posted earlier, if you want to easily use those tanks...I used a bread board and then just picked different resistors and wrote down how each one sounded, then soldered on a perf-board the completed circuit with the resistors I chose. I think it puts the whole setup a notch or two up any guitar reverb I've heard...

Cheers,
AC
 
oh yea, i dont doubt it :)
had a line 6, a dano and a eh reverb for guitar but the tank in the fender always sounds better.

what i was trying to figure before was a stand alone like this from just the tank for line level.

the ggg link is not really just guitar, as i understand, was based on a much earlier circuit and between r4 and r2 is all you need as that cuts out all the buffer/mixer etc.
but does use a real tank. check it out.

anyway, i'll give one of them a suck sooner or later :)
 
I'm building a spring reverb unit right now from 4 accutronics springs, I have 2x medium and 2x long.  Was thinking of setting it up so I could select either med or long or both for density but the m/s idea sounds great and I reckon that would be great to integrate.  How should the hookup go to achieve that?

 
Fun! Yes spring reverbs are nice cause they are all cheap and sound unique.
I haven't gotten around to finalizing mine yet, but M/S can be implemented using

http://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=112&start=0

(You can also sub ina134 chips instead of the that chips)

So stereo in --> m/s matrix ----> Mid to one spring channel, Side to other spring channel ---> to another M/S matrix  and there you go should be more stereo then trying to match tanks and all that.

I haven't tried this, but the possibilities are exciting, like was posted earlier you could have short for the mid and long on the side (or vice-versa)

Have fun!

Abe
 
Some examples... I found using a M/S encoder post spring L/R even when not M/S encoding before helped solidify the stereo image on some stuff.

I made sure to find the crappiest drum loop in my library ::) Not so wild about the drum reverb sound, but I've founf it layers quite nice if you don't hit it too hard. Also from the get go the reverbs just seem "wider" than any digital algorithom I've come across....but a little bit goes a long way...anyway :

www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/DRUM_DRY.mp3
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/DRUM_M_S.mp3
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/RHODES_DRY.mp3
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/RHODES_M_S_GAIN.mp3
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/RHODES_STEREO.mp3
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/RHODES_STEREO_M_S.mp3

Me whistling outside the tanks... I read about they guy that recorded the shins and they had the plates in the same room as the band a nd recorded them....I though thats a pretty cool idea
www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/SPRING_REVERB/WHISTLING.mp3
 

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