Turret board layout design tips

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letterbeacon

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Jul 12, 2009
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I'd like to try my hand at building some old tube equipment at some point and, after searching this board and Google extensively, I can't find anywhere that offers tips on transferring a circuit from its schematic to a turret board.  Is there an article online, or can anyone recommend some best practices?

Thanks a lot!
 
Just about the best equipment to study for turret/tag board layouts would be older classic test equipment from such as H.P. or Tektronix.
Audio requirements aren't typically as demanding as a scope but it's quite a thing of beauty to study an old Tek scope and learn a few things.

Morgan Jones has a companion book to his Valve Amp theory book which talks about actually building amplifiers.  Both books are worth buying if you haven't got them.

A good simple place to start with on a layout is to group the signals together as they are used on each stage.  Try to visualise the current flow as it happens in the stage and give it a nice short AC and DC loop to follow.  So, for instance, don't make it go to the other side of the turret to a Kathode resistor or the valve socket to make connections and complete the loop.  Maybe redraw the schematic with this info indicated on it. 
Some people actually draw their schematics with the signals grouped already.

If we take a hypothetical and simple triode gain stage - the loop would include the H.T. filter/decoupling cap that feeds the stage, the anode load resistor, the grid leak resistor of that stage, and the Kathode resistor with its bypass cap if there is one.  Also the input transformer secondary wires if there is a transformer.  And of course, the valve itself.  So you would group those parts together on the turret close to the valve socket and have all the bottom ends (grounds) of those parts connected together with a bit of busbar wire.  The same with the H.T. as well.  A lot of older audio gear had all the filter caps (and kathode bypass's) right next to the power supply in multi-section caps and just ran wire back and forwards.  Better to not do this if you can avoid it.  Also, a lot of older valve stuff used the chassis as the ground returns (LA-2a) which you should also NOT do.

Things like grid stoppers should be wired directly at the valve socket and there's no reason you couldn't wire a stage's coupling/blocking cap directly from one valve socket to the next if it's not too big. 

Draw a realsize picture of the turret on your computer, print it out and play with the components on that first to avoid mistakes or to try different things.

Have fun, I do :)
 
Using a software like DIY Layout Creator may help.
Simple, wisywig, easy to learn... and run on any platform... The beta3 is working well.

diylc.org

Axel
 
mad.ax said:
Using a software like DIY Layout Creator may help.
Simple, wisywig, easy to learn... and run on any platform... The beta3 is working well.

diylc.org

Axel

Get get that to run properly on Ubuntu.  Keeps on asking fro wingdings font.

Cheers

Ian
 
That's great advice Jean, thanks.

My background is synth circuits and when I build a circuit on a stripboard that's based around a chip, I usually plonk the chip in the middle of the board and place the components around that.  I suppose in this instance you would build in blocks starting from the input and moving along the turret board until you get to the output.

mad.ax - I use DIY Layout Creator for my stripboards, didn't realise it could be used for turret board too.  Thanks, I'll check it out.
 
letterbeacon said:
My background is synth circuits and when I build a circuit on a stripboard that's based around a chip, I usually plonk the chip in the middle of the board and place the components around that.  I suppose in this instance you would build in blocks starting from the input and moving along the turret board until you get to the output.

I suppose you could just think of each section of your valve circuit as being similar to your layout with a chip in the middle of a perfboard, except, here, you are wiring each stage more like a triangle with the valve socket being the apex. 

The pdf from 'valvewizard' on grounding and ground schemes looks a good one to use as a guide and I would treat your layouts like he explains with using local stars.  Then, either take each local point back individually to the main star point or link them daisy chain if you prefer.
Don't attach noisy currents such as relays to these stars by the way.

What are you building?  :)


 
Forget about DIYLC beta3 for now. It works fine (even on Ubuntu!) but has so little components that it's barely usable...

@ Letterbeacon
You can choose between stripboards, perfboard, blank board, and add your own turrets...

@Ian
Version 2 and 3 works fine here under Ubuntu. Never been asked for wingdings font...
A search for wingdings with the package manager propose the ttf-opensymbol...

Axel
 
Jean Clochet said:
What are you building?  :)

At the moment I'm putting together a REDD 47, but there's already a turret board layout for that.  I want to learn the black art of turret board layouts because I'm thinking of building either a UA 175B or a RCA BA-6A.  There's a turret layout for a 175A in the service manual, but you can hardly read the values on the one I've got.  Thinking I might start from scratch on a 175B.
 
Hi,
Looking  at the Hiwatt, Fender, or old Marshall amp layouts you can find everywhere on the net might help as well, (especialy the Hiwatt ones, I'd say) .

Laurent.
 
letterbeacon said:
At the moment I'm putting together a REDD 47, but there's already a turret board layout for that. 

Nice.  It would be good  to see what you come up with if you feel like posting a drawing when you have one.

letterbeacon said:
I'm thinking of building either a UA 175B or a RCA BA-6A.  There's a turret layout for a 175A in the service manual, but you can hardly read the values on the one I've got.  Thinking I might start from scratch on a 175B.


Doesn't the 175B use some pc boards for some stuff?  I think a layout would be good though. 

letterbeacon said:
...the black art...
I don't think it's black art really, just common sense stuff that you would do on a good pcb layout really.  Except bigger parts!  The good thing about valve gear being wired in air or on a tag/turret etc. is you can modify and change stuff a bit easier which is nice. 

I did a different turret layout than the original on an LA-2A once which used local stars instead of chassis points and I did measure lower noise so i think it's worth it. 
 
mad.ax said:
@Ian
Version 2 and 3 works fine here under Ubuntu. Never been asked for wingdings font...
A search for wingdings with the package manager propose the ttf-opensymbol...

Axel

I have the ttf package installed but I guess the problem is because this prog runs under wine - can't find a native Linux version.  I'll try 2 or 3 instead.

EDit:  Found the sourceforge page and downloaded 3 beta - works great native - thanks for the tip - Ian

Cheers

Ian
 
Jean Clochet said:
letterbeacon said:
At the moment I'm putting together a REDD 47, but there's already a turret board layout for that. 

Nice.  It would be good  to see what you come up with if you feel like posting a drawing when you have one.
Well the turret board layout isn't mine, but here it is:
reddamplayout.jpg

Looking at that after reading the Valvewizard article I can see that it uses a ground bus which could maybe be improved.

Jean Clochet said:
letterbeacon said:
I'm thinking of building either a UA 175B or a RCA BA-6A.  There's a turret layout for a 175A in the service manual, but you can hardly read the values on the one I've got.  Thinking I might start from scratch on a 175B.


Doesn't the 175B use some pc boards for some stuff?  I think a layout would be good though. 
Yes the 175B uses PCBs but I'm going to try and do a layout.  Or maybe I'll try and figure out the values on the 175A layout, I'm not sure if there's much of a difference in sound between the two (different thread perhaps!).
 
Yes I think that layout could be better but it's not bad.
I used to own an older EMI RS61 amplifier from EMI Pathé Marconi Studios.  It was wired on turrets.  I may have a few internal pictures somewhere. 
I do remember the note in the manual speaking about a small loop with the input transformer, Kathode resistor, cap etc.
I'll see if I can find some picture as inspiration ;)
 
Here's one picture I found that I think was taken by the new owner.  Someone has replaced some caps with cheap ones since I owned it and it is also has more grime inside than it did.  I think it has passed through a few owners since me.  I wish I still had it.  :(
So the transformer on the right is the input and you can see the secondary wires coming over to the tag board to the small group of input valve components.  A tight loop.  The input valve is directly behind.
I'll look for more pictures when I can.


 

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