New monitors - what would you get?

So I'm going to buy a set of new monitors for my small-ish but well-treated room. Already got a Sub, so they don't need to be big. I've nailed it down to either the new Neumann KH 120 or the Acoustic Energy AE-22 01 + Hypex amp modules. The Neumans are active, sport a superbly flat frequency plot and offer room correction EQ. The AE have superior time domain response (they are designated as 'modern' NS-10), the frequency plot isn't so flat but designed to fit a meterbridge setup well (which is how I would use them anyway) and offer no means of room correction. The Hypex modules are supposedly far better amps than any small-ish AB type inbuild ones could reasonably expected to be, and the signal path would be significantly shorter (just a quality op amp, the digital amp and then a few passive components in the speaker). The Neumann is a proven and very well-designed package though...

I haven't heard and won't be able to try either configuration here in my studio first, so any input would be great! Thanks!

We got to demo the Neumanns, man they sound really good! The imaging was terrific and the freq response was terrific. Only issue for us was SPL. They have a built-in limiter that sounds awful, the amps and speakers probably could have gone a bit louder but the limiter didn't let them, and it was really bad sounding. We asked about being able to defeat it and they said there was no way to do so. I'd say it kicked in around 100 dB SPL or so. At 85 dB they sound fantastic, even without the sub the booty bass record we tested with was reproduced wonderfully.

I've never heard the AE's, but I do know the Neumann's do sound very nice.  The low end extension is impressive for a speaker their size, but I'm skeptical as to how they would actually translate.  The lows seemed a little fake, and the top was perhaps a tad bright.  I would guess the sound relies heavily on the porting, and the limiters are there to keep them from working out of the cabinet's tuning range and not so much for protection.  For the price and the size, I don't think there's a whole lot that can rival them, though.

After 4 years of being in my house, I'm finally starting to build my home mix room.  I thought about the KH-120's for months, but eventually settled on Barefoot MM35's.  A total financial stretch, but I'm a fan of their concept.  I think they'll be arriving next week.

To put some gasoline to the fire, I would say get some monitors that sounds nice. Mabye more hi fi ish. If you have musicians in the studio they would like some inspirational feedback of their work.
Big boomy bass, sweet treble. When you mix alone, get a pair of Klein and Hummel. Hard to get a good sound and very accurate. A ProAc studio 100 migth fit both bills. Dont underestimate the power of music experience

I would never consider buying any monitors without listening to them first in your environment to the recordings you know very well. Otherwise, it is a shot in the dark. It's the same as you'd never marry a woman based on your friends advice: "Oh yeah, she is hot, and it feels good..."

Best, M

Did you ever tried the Equator?

http://www.audioland.fr/html/produits/equator/monitoring-equator-audio.html

Thanks alot everyone! I really liked what I heard from the AE22 in the shop and folks I trust recommend it highly, so I'll order one and check it out here.

Has anyone build a Hypex amp and could recommend what would work best? Is the 400W module vs. the 180W version overkill or does it make a real difference for this speaker? Thanks!

Anyone heard the Event Opals?  I'm curious if they live up to any of their hype?  I went the AIR-15 route instead, but still curious...

8)

Personally didn't think the AE22s translated very well. They are OK on first listen. I have had some smaller AE's for 15yrs that I used to mix on but these are like an NS10 with a hole in the middle.

The K&H/Neumann are OK. Agree with Ben RE the limiters on the O300s but not sure if the 120s are as bad.

There are a number of small speakers that have impressed me. I bought Proac Studio 100's but they have recently gone up in price. They translate like a mother with a good amp. However the cost of them + amp gets expensive.

Focal CMS series are quite decent, we have all of them plus some Solo6's and I would have a good listen to the CMS vs the Solo6.

The other really little speaker which is incredible but costly are the Geithain RL906s... incredible clarity.

If I had your kind of budget I would try and ABC mix on Proac 100's. Solo6/CMS and the Neumanns and see which worked.

You may love the AE22's but IMO they don't translate right in the midrange. Used em all and the Proac is the sheezy.

-T

It's a pity no one listened the Equator.
i had the fortune to do it in Paris, where that importer is working. And I found them exceptional (they give also a software and some little hardware to balance the audio in the room where you are operating and stores the parameters).

In  case you have the possibility, I suggest you to try them. I'm really enthusiast about them 
Of course you'll decide for what you like more

TomWaterman said:

Personally didn't think the AE22s translated very well. They are OK on first listen. I have had some smaller AE's for 15yrs that I used to mix on but these are like an NS10 with a hole in the middle.

The K&H/Neumann are OK. Agree with Ben RE the limiters on the O300s but not sure if the 120s are as bad.

There are a number of small speakers that have impressed me. I bought Proac Studio 100's but they have recently gone up in price. They translate like a mother with a good amp. However the cost of them + amp gets expensive.

Focal CMS series are quite decent, we have all of them plus some Solo6's and I would have a good listen to the CMS vs the Solo6.

The other really little speaker which is incredible but costly are the Geithain RL906s... incredible clarity.

If I had your kind of budget I would try and ABC mix on Proac 100's. Solo6/CMS and the Neumanns and see which worked.

You may love the AE22's but IMO they don't translate right in the midrange. Used em all and the Proac is the sheezy.

-T

Click to expand...

Thanks! I had the Proac 100 on my rader a long time ago when I was looking for monitors but somehow forgot about them. People seem to universally like them. I'd prefer a sealed box design, but as long as they translate best everything else is secondary. Geithain's I've also heard before but somehow not my cup of tea sonically. There's a clone of the Proac 100 with improved crossover (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Studio101.htm), combined with the Hypex amps this should make for a killer (semi)-DIY monitoring system.  8)

Violinist said:

It's a pity no one listened the Equator.
i had the fortune to do it in Paris, where that importer is working. And I found them exceptional (they give also a software and some little hardware to balance the audio in the room where you are operating and stores the parameters).

In  case you have the possibility, I suggest you to try them. I'm really enthusiast about them 
Of course you'll decide for what you like more

Click to expand...

I've read through some reviews that described them as somewhat aggressive in the midrange. I've also got reservations about digital correction circuitry in the signal path. And they cost a good deal more than I'm planning to pay. But nevertheless thanks for suggesting them!

living sounds said:

Violinist said:

It's a pity no one listened the Equator.
i had the fortune to do it in Paris, where that importer is working. And I found them exceptional (they give also a software and some little hardware to balance the audio in the room where you are operating and stores the parameters).

In  case you have the possibility, I suggest you to try them. I'm really enthusiast about them 
Of course you'll decide for what you like more

Click to expand...

I've read through some reviews that described them as somewhat aggressive in the midrange. I've also got reservations about digital correction circuitry in the signal path. And they cost a good deal more than I'm planning to pay. But nevertheless thanks for suggesting them!

Click to expand...

I read this info as well. Well after have listened to them I can say that, on my understanding, isn't  aggressive at all. What I can say is that the definition of the sound is very very high. I was really impressed.

Yes the price is the price of such objects, anyhow not so high if compared with other ones with similar characteristics. Near Field types (the 8") have a good price. Anyhow I understand that "good" or "not good" price is depending from the available "wallet". In this case is for me high too in this moment

living sounds said:

Thanks! I had the Proac 100 on my rader a long time ago when I was looking for monitors but somehow forgot about them. People seem to universally like them. I'd prefer a sealed box design, but as long as they translate best everything else is secondary. Geithain's I've also heard before but somehow not my cup of tea sonically. There's a clone of the Proac 100 with improved crossover (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Studio101.htm), combined with the Hypex amps this should make for a killer (semi)-DIY monitoring system.  8)

Click to expand...

Closed box and ported box is a funny one for me. Technically I appreciate closed boxes but almost always prefer listening / working on ported boxes. Must be the group delay!

The Proacs are quite picky about amps. Quad / C-Audio / Hypex are all capable, although I'm not a massive fan of the hypex sound either. You may find the Proac a little round in the lower midrange but they sort of just work. With a good DAC/amp driving them the bottom end cleans up, but if your DAC is sloppy (old apogee / rme) the bass can get a little out of control. With new apogee/rme ufx/prism they tighten up and have good depth.

If you didn't like the Geithains then you may 'really' like the Proac or the Focal. They are kinda bright but in a good way. Proac most coloured but also musical.

I wonder what the crossover improves in the DIY 100 as I don't have any real issue with them as is!

-T

TomWaterman said:

Closed box and ported box is a funny one for me. Technically I appreciate closed boxes but almost always prefer listening / working on ported boxes. Must be the group delay!

The Proacs are quite picky about amps. Quad / C-Audio / Hypex are all capable, although I'm not a massive fan of the hypex sound either. You may find the Proac a little round in the lower midrange but they sort of just work. With a good DAC/amp driving them the bottom end cleans up, but if your DAC is sloppy (old apogee / rme) the bass can get a little out of control. With new apogee/rme ufx/prism they tighten up and have good depth.

If you didn't like the Geithains then you may 'really' like the Proac or the Focal. They are kinda bright but in a good way. Proac most coloured but also musical.

I wonder what the crossover improves in the DIY 100 as I don't have any real issue with them as is!

-T

Click to expand...

What don't you like about Hypex? From all I've heard one needs to spend very serious money to get better sound than these inexpensive modules provide. I've got very good converters and during mixing the speakers will be fed directly from the console anyway, so that at least is not an issue.

Now all I wonder about is how to get the wood for the cabinets sawed properly...  ;D

TomWaterman said:

Personally didn't think the AE22s translated very well. They are OK on first listen.

Click to expand...

I never heard those, but would not be surprised. It looks like they use a scaled down version of the XT25TG30 ring radiator, so the first thing comes to mind, while they might be OK on axis, the sweet spot will be very narrow.

Best, M

Randyman... said:

Anyone heard the Event Opals?  I'm curious if they live up to any of their hype?  I went the AIR-15 route instead, but still curious...

8)

Click to expand...

I've been curious about these as well. Since their release I heard that they weigh an impossible amount for their size (a good sign I suppose). But also there was a total recall because the first batch had a manufacturing error and the amps were too noisy. In a quiet room you could easily hear them all the time. oops.

Modified dynaudio bm6a route here, and not really looking for new monitors, but still curious.

living sounds said:

What don't you like about Hypex? From all I've heard one needs to spend very serious money to get better sound than these inexpensive modules provide. I've got very good converters and during mixing the speakers will be fed directly from the console anyway, so that at least is not an issue.

Now all I wonder about is how to get the wood for the cabinets sawed properly...  ;D

Click to expand...

Lots of good press around Hypex. There are a few custom main monitor designers here in the Uk that are using them in some new rooms, I heard one against a number of other amps and found them maybe a bit sterile. Good detail but with the wrong speaker a touch tiring.

Running my Proac with a Quad and have a C-Audio old 1RU 150watt amp that also does very well with them. Kinda takes the hifi edge off them!

Hypex definitely good but not my thing.

-T

Marik said:

I never heard those, but would not be surprised. It looks like they use a scaled down version of the XT25TG30 ring radiator, so the first thing comes to mind, while they might be OK on axis, the sweet spot will be very narrow.

Best, M

Click to expand...

Yeah I would agree with that, also find 8" drivers to leave gaps when crossed to the tweeter. Got a bit of a thing for 6" drivers...

-T

I heard the equators but it doesn't count as it was on the AES floor. hardly the place to listen to monitors.

monitors are a personal thing and many factors are involved to having them and using them.

1.Cost: the one of the last things we consider but at the current rate of the world  should be higher on the list. After all buying a set is one thing, replacement parts are another.
2 environment: Have to think of  the environment your in. do they need to be loud? How accurate do they need to be? Are they just an extra set to over emphasize sound for the client? 
3. Type: Do they need to be active? I have found passive monitors to perform better all around. This stems from westlake where glen phonix took an hour to explain why a powered monitor is inefficient and often has similar characteristics of boomy bass, mushy mids, and brittle high end. More over what's the make up of the speaker? 3 way? 2 way? ribbon tweeter? etc,etc,etc

4. size and space: this can go under the environment but is sperate as one needs to consider the actual size of the speakers.

Best think you can do is hang with a dealer and work it so you can try different monitors in your space you will use them most and listen with reference material.

I happen to have a spare set of manley/mastering lab speakers with original tannoy drivers. Was supposed to be part of a 5.1 set up that never happened as I could never get a hold of the 5th one. I would part with them for the right price.