education for this century.

ricardo said:

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/why-has-technology-not-revolutionized-education

The true role of the 'teacher'.  Sandel illustrates it perfectly.

But it only works in 'real life'.

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Yes, the  author of the introducton would probably benefit from a good education too. Spot the error.

.............According to Derek Muller from Veritasium, there’s two reasons: technology is not inherently superior to traditional teaching methods, and learning is a social activity.........

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sahib said:

ricardo said:

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/why-has-technology-not-revolutionized-education

The true role of the 'teacher'.  Sandel illustrates it perfectly.

But it only works in 'real life'.

Click to expand...

Yes, the  author of the introducton would probably benefit from a good education too. Spot the error.

.............According to Derek Muller from Veritasium, there’s two reasons: technology is not inherently superior to traditional teaching methods, and learning is a social activity.........

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

First, thanks for the comments to all of you.

Sahib I'm not saying it's inherently better or than it should be replaced, I'm saying that should be updated since we have the technology, use it. Proper use of Spice is not given in any class, matlab up to a certain point, a small set of data sheets is brought by a teacher to use those, like if it would be too hard to find some of those online, even for the 2N3904... A bunch of classes on biasing transistors and in the test most of the room failed at getting the numbers for a common base configuration.

1- I don't think most people studying by me could put together a project ready for production after getting the degree, the only approach about PCB "design" which was given in a few hours was taken out of the program because of lack of time. I didn't saw a single approach to productions techniques around here neither.

2- I think a major learning about the software tools should be included, even more than making numbers by hand. You do a few simple approximations by hand and then start to use the software, not expending many many hours with a pocket calculator fighting against the algebra behind.

3- More real case examples should be included, and probably at least one class about the complete design and production of a simple product to at least get to know the process. This will have to do with 1 and 2 since you need software and knowdlage of the production process to get it done.

4- The teacher should be much more concerned about imparting interest than the knowledge by itself, it's pretty hard to know why something is important but it's pretty easy to get the knowledge about it once you know what and why you are looking for. Type eddy currents on yahoo search and you will have no problem finding what you are looking for, but why would someone who is not interested in knowing about it will find it, or even won't know what he needs to search. Then a quick lesson about the subject and a classroom discussion of any loose wires around will cut it.

5- There is a small robotics club that is starting to appear now in the university, I think it should be much more important giving anyone interested in building something the space, tools and help it takes. I was discussing with some authorities of the university about organizing groups buys through the university in order to get academic prices for hardware and software. At the moment they don't give us even a email address to make easier to get those online and getting any hardware through the custom office is pretty hard and this is where probably having the support of the university could help a lot.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Probably I'd start to build a project about all this on the summer, make it public and give it to the authorities of my university, I will be glad if anyone wants to support the project and/or join to it. I've heard a electronics engineering is splitting into two, well, there will be a new telecommunications degree apart from EE, now are together, probably is a good moment to bring something like this out.

Thanks again.
JS

joaquins, I think the approach you are after is well illustrated in "The Art of Electronics" - Horowitz & Hill.

IMHO, this is STILL the best textbook on Electronics.  At every stage, it shows techniques which real engineers use in real life including the short cuts which are so important to knowing you are not chasing something stupid.

But the lack of practical experience at universities has always been the case.  There will always the student who wants to make stuff and those who are uninterested in anything that doesn't contribute to their academic assessment.

I remember helping a friend in my final year at university with some circuit theory problems.  He noticed I was building something and I proudly showed him the 741 OPAs which I had obtained at great expense (which dates this incident).

He had never seen an OPA in real life.  As far as he was concerned, OPAs were little triangles on paper with 3 connections.  ;D

And this guy would be a qualified BEng 3 mths later. 

I think the German Dip Ing. in those days was much better than the UK degrees cos you had to spend a couple of year in industry.  I think things are a better these days (cos stuff like "The Art of Electronics") but from this thread, not a lot.

When I was hiring engineers, I would always ask if they were making something as a hobby.  In those days, it was either making their own HiFi or messing around with a Mini or Escort .. I didn't care what it was.  But this always differentiated the engineers from the mere academics.

joaquins said:

Sahib I'm not saying it's inherently better or than it should be replaced, I'm saying that should be updated since we have the technology........

Click to expand...

I meant the error;

.............According to Derek Muller from Veritasium, there’s two reasons: technology is not inherently superior to traditional teaching methods, and learning is a social activity.........

Click to expand...

Should be "there are two reasons" .

This is another one. Scroll down the page and read the warning sign on the large picture.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301404075952?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

;D ;D


The key  is the "teacher" and I agree with you.

When I was doing MSc (which I dropped out),  in robotics class we were using the lecturer's own book that he wrote. He was talking about assembly robots and started  to describe picking a two legged transistor ( and that was in a very prominent Scottish University). We have an expression for that in Turkish saying "if imam farts then the congregation craps". Imagine the student coming out of that class. Without being smug, I of course put my hand up. But then during my project (which was a robotic head) he criticised  my written work for not having the academic language.

This is  where the fine line is in terms of the methodology and teaching material/text books that the teacher uses. Most text books are written with a language which  dumps a load of academic jargon at you and you just have to make sense out of it. By the time you get to the end of the paragraph you are bloody exhausted and still did not get it. 

On the other hand there are books that follow the methodology of  news journalists. The key message is given to you within the first three or four lines at the most (and that is why they are great writers).  Even if you do not read the rest of the paragraph you still got the whole story. A good example to this is Delmar's Herrick and Jacob series of books. It is a pity that they are discontinued but can still be found second hand. The writer draws you into the circuit, gives you a guided tour and then says here is the mathematics behind it. Even if you do not study the equation you know how the circuit works.

Both of these  points are also valid for how the teacher delivers the class.

However, on the other hand university is not the place to give the industry level practical experience.
Four years is just about enough for the fundamentals. The student has to research and investigate further in his/her own time.  But that rarely happens as the out of class hours are generally spent on partying and boozing. Then a night before the exam day an entire book is speed read. When I was at college (in 70s) the back seats in the classroom were premium as that is where we slept in the morning. In my case after playing the clubs the night before.

Hi Sahib and Ricardo, Thanks you both for your tips...

I'll have a look at those books you recommend, thanks for the input.

Ricardo,
Few days ago I had my cheapest multimeter on the table when a friend came to home to study for a test, I had one here just in case something fails, like my mains "safety" switch 2 month ago, he said, oh, you have one of those... He only saw them in one or two labs visits, I told him I had one or two more back in home and he asked me why would I want so many and what do I use them for, to what I answered I'm planning to buy a few more when ever it's possible to me and I use them every single day when I'm back home and always working on something... Right now I'm making the design to build one for myself, with a few extra futures to measure really low voltages, currents, and probably 3 and 4 terminal resistor measurements.

Sahib,
I don't get that warning, I should not apply any voltage lower than 30V to the instrument?
I've seen Ve, and in particular that video, that's why I'm saying the teachers should take advantage of all that, not replace the teacher with speaking screens.
I have quite a few different approaches in the books used, written by the teacher is one of the most common in electronics related topics (measurements, components, filters) not so much for general stuff like physics and math. I totally get what you are saying, I had a few classes where the teacher arrives and start to write formulas on the board till he's done and says, that's why Chevishef filters are the ones with the less amplitude error in bands, and you never knew what they were talking about in the first place. Lucky me assistance in classes is not demanded so I can stay and sleep at my own bed instead of a last row seats, I guess much more confortable. I still go to a few classes so the teacher knows my face and I know what he want me to write on the test...

Thanks both again for the input and I'll look further on those recommendations to build the project.

JS

joaquins said:

Hi Sahib and Ricardo, Thanks you both for your tips...

Click to expand...

You are welcome.

I don't get that warning, I should not apply any voltage lower than 30V to the instrument?

Click to expand...

To me it should be more like "higher than 30V".

sahib said:

...
To me it should be more like "higher than 30V".

Click to expand...

They should, or at least use the (>) symbol instead.

JS

This is not getting any better!!

I'm really pissed off right now, just got home from 10hs inside the university just to end the day waiting two hours to do a lab with a teacher helper who thought a NPO cap was a tantal and blamed the uncalibrated 10X prove from being loading a 50Ω waveform generator, gave me a PITA with so many things I couldn't tell. For example, not having printed something I should, which I did had in my phone cause I don't use paper or printer other than taking a few notes in class or making PCB toner transfer... I just can't get it, sorry for getting all the s**t out here, I could be frying eggs in my head right now, luckily Chivas Regal would help with that and tomorrow I have a much easier day.

I do have an idea or two around about this but not to discuss right now. Cheers!

JS