Obamacare and rate increases - report your results here

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Yeah, the pendulum will swing the other way. People will get voted in that will claim to change things. They'll outlaw the ACA and tell everyone things will go back to where they were. Then, the Insurance companies will double our rates again............................ :mad:
 
Spiritworks said:
Yeah, the pendulum will swing the other way. People will get voted in that will claim to change things. They'll outlaw the ACA and tell everyone things will go back to where they were. Then, the Insurance companies will double our rates again............................ :mad:
Nah, since when has a huge government program ever been rescinded? It's here for good. Or should I say, for bad. We're screwed.
 
Phrazemaster said:
Spiritworks said:
Yeah, the pendulum will swing the other way. People will get voted in that will claim to change things. They'll outlaw the ACA and tell everyone things will go back to where they were. Then, the Insurance companies will double our rates again............................ :mad:
Nah, since when has a huge government program ever been rescinded? It's here for good. Or should I say, for bad. We're screwed.

Unfortunately that is the reality.

I expect one possible outcome is to fold this into a massive expansion of medicare, but the problem with that is they have been under-paying the health care industry for medicare services for years, and cut it again recently to fund ACA, so doctors and hospitals continue moving away from treating Medicare patients.

I see a major medicare reform as one possible path, but that means we need to reverse current trends in that area.

Or not...

JR
 
I try to avoid doctors and hospitals so don't have much first hand experience to report. I signed up for medicare so I can check that box on the tax return when asked "DO YOU HAVE INSURANCE"... .

A couple month ago I hurt my knee, and my self help rehab has proved inadequate so I decided it was time to dip my toe back into the medical community. I haven't been to the local clinic since 2008 so I decided to order a blood panel CBC yadda yadda... Technically I can't order it. The Dr has to diagnose some reason to give me a blood test, but I figure 6 years since my last one was reason enough.

The way the system works, I need to sit down with the local clinic Dr and describe my knee problem then she will refer me to an orthopedic guy, one town away. If i just called him to make an appointment the system would apparently implode due to a paperwork paradox (paradocs ?) .

I made the mistake of complaining about obama care and I thought the nurse was going to have a fit. She is really upset with a long list of complaints. She is almost as old as me so she will just retire soon and leave the problem for others to deal with. 

I learned that the local pharmacy, next to the clinic was closing down. The guy who ran the pharmacy for the last few decades could not afford the cost to upgrade his computers with $18k of new software to handle the new improved ACA systems. The Nurse was livid, because they didn't just add some new codes, but changed all the old codes too so her years of memorizing the codes for common diagnosis was now worthless. In fact that may be exactly why they changed them all, so nobody would rely upon their memory for coding in new paperwork. 

Admittedly this is just a snap shot from very small town mid-america, but what I see and hear from my local practitioner does not seem consistent with the victory lap the president is trying to take.

Of course maybe I'm wrong...

JR
 
My mom who is 75 and extremely healthy discovered she can no longer schedule a 'checkup', she has to schedule a 'wellness visit', in which she talks to the doctor to determine if a 'checkup' appointment is needed.  So now it's a guaranteed two appointments rather than one, I assume because the system does not trust people to know whether or not they need an actual 'checkup' visit.  She is rather livid about it.  Apparently since the norm is that anyone in that age bracket is assumed to be on a giant list of meds for a giant list of problems, it would be normal to have a 'wellness visit' to discuss if anything has changed before going to the next stage of actually taking health measurements.  In other words, get highly trained professionals to talk more, and bill less over the course of any billing cycle, while collecting double the number of co-pays from the patients. 

Having been through the observation of brain cancer survival dementia resembling alzheimer's, I find the general American assumption of one's ability to discuss and manage one's own health with the medial system quite absurd.  Most people do not want to recognize that many people are not in control of their minds or health to a degree that makes the concept of a 'wellness visit' fairly insane, and that a significant number need measurement of stats as the front line.  The medical community has the full stats, and I don't, so what do I know? 

Note that I am, in theory, all for socialized medicine, though I am not at all convinced it can be done correctly.  The current system in no way qualifies as socialized medicine, it's an evil bastard child of conflicting interests.  But then, that is America. 
 
emrr said:
My mom who is 75 and extremely healthy discovered she can no longer schedule a 'checkup', she has to schedule a 'wellness visit', in which she talks to the doctor to determine if a 'checkup' appointment is needed.  So now it's a guaranteed two appointments rather than one, I assume because the system does not trust people to know whether or not they need an actual 'checkup' visit.  She is rather livid about it.  Apparently since the norm is that anyone in that age bracket is assumed to be on a giant list of meds for a giant list of problems, it would be normal to have a 'wellness visit' to discuss if anything has changed before going to the next stage of actually taking health measurements.  In other words, get highly trained professionals to talk more, and bill less over the course of any billing cycle, while collecting double the number of co-pays from the patients. 
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they may be trying to manage the scare resource, which I expect to be actual doctors, so a barrier defense line of medial para-professionals could do the nominal "wellness" screening, before the patient graduates in seriousness to see the doctor. If the patient has no additional problems identified by the screening, they get with the doctor to address the original complaint. Going into the doctor cold may still end up requiring a second visit if the doctor orders tests.

This does seem nonsensical for small operations like the clinic I visited with only one doctor, where some judgement and common sense should be allowed.  For my recent visit I kind of broke the rules, since I went to the nurse before even trying to get with the doctor and had her draw blood for a standard blood panel, so about a week later when I got with the doctor she would have the results of the blood test already to review. This way I could accomplish all that I wanted to do in one sitting.

I knew that I could not get into the orthopedic specialist to check out my knee injury without a referral. I didn't want to waste the clinic doctors time with just that, so I did the blood work too, since it had been 7 years sine my last blood check.

My appointment with the joint doctor is later this week so I hope to get a professional opinion about that, My DIY rehab was not working out, and i don't have the equipment to look inside my knee. (Funny when I was working at Peavey we had an x-ray machine in the factory and I could look inside some components without taking them apart.) 
Having been through the observation of brain cancer survival dementia resembling alzheimer's, I find the general American assumption of one's ability to discuss and manage one's own health with the medial system quite absurd.  Most people do not want to recognize that many people are not in control of their minds or health to a degree that makes the concept of a 'wellness visit' fairly insane, and that a significant number need measurement of stats as the front line.  The medical community has the full stats, and I don't, so what do I know? 

Note that I am, in theory, all for socialized medicine, though I am not at all convinced it can be done correctly.  The current system in no way qualifies as socialized medicine, it's an evil bastard child of conflicting interests.  But then, that is America.
I have been whining about this for years, but which "conflicting interests". While the conservative feel like they were F___d, they are not a parent to this bastard child. Maybe the dems had conflict with the lobbyists. Near the end of passing the ACA when the republicans had gained the numbers in the senate to block passage, they did a rules end run calling it a budgetary adjustment and tacking the changes onto an earlier passed version of the law. arghhh.   

After looking at systems in a number of countries there is no easy answer IMO. Even a wealthy country, like we were until recently (another rant), can not afford unlimited end of life care the way we practice it. So somebody has to be the bad parent and ration end of life care. My preference is to make unpleasant decisions like that for myself by myself.  If i don't have enough cash for 5 years of chemo like my brother (RIP) got, so be it, I plan to die sometime. My brother admitted to me before he died, that he would have never spent his own money on such a low probability outcome. If he had the several hundred $k laying around he'd save it for his family. We need to look at all healthcare spending like it's our own money, because it is. 

I try to stay optimistic, but a great deal of damage has been done already in recent years. Good practicing doctors are falling like flies (retiring or hooking up with hospitals). I asked this clinic doctor about ACA and she was resigned about it saying she would have to change her practice soon if we didn't get another postponement.

JR

PS: If you have a clear sky tonight check out the Leonid meteor shower...
 
I had a rate increase.  I used to not have health insurance-that was for free.  Now I have health insurance.  I am paying $.04 a month out of pocket for the silver plan. 
 
gltech said:
$177/mo to $289/mo, and $2000 deductible to $13000 BCBS Georgia. Yes, thirteen thousand. My letter said "Yippee, you can keep your current plan, but your monthly and deductible will..." Imagine my surprise.

I won't give the pukes credit for engineering an insurance system collapse on purpose to gain even more control
You can bet your arse on it.

Now a 2nd increase to $431.

I can't believe American culture has come to this:
http://doyougotinsurance.com/
 
I just read in the news that Oregon is giving up on their state exchange and merging with the federal exchange.

JR

PS: I just got prescribed an arthritis strength 1 a day NSAID (pain killer/anti-imflammatory). $4/month from Wallyworld.

 
MicDaddy said:

That is far from the largest problem with ACA implementation (IMO).

Privacy of health records, should ultimately be less of a concern with it becoming illegal to consider pre-existing conditions into insurance rate structures. Privacy of mental health status is a problematic gap (IMO) in properly vetting gun purchase approvals.

It will be interesting to see the reality of this new improved health insurance economics vs the sugar coated impression being presented by the political leaders. We will learn more about how many actually pay, when they announce next years rates. They already postponed next years sign-up until after the mid term elections, I wonder why?  8)

JR 
 
I think the ACA will have several results, many good ones, but some unintended consequences.

The best of the consequences:

[list type=decimal]
[*]We have an epidemic of part time workers in the US and the ACA will eliminate the incentive to hire part time.  The result hopefully will be better trained workers, more full time jobs, and a force in part for improving the relationship between employee and employer.

For those of you offshore... In the US you can save (as a former employer we saw) about 20% to 30% or more on your labor cost by hiring part time.  This is especially true for low paid jobs (including the all important entry level it is so hard for young people to find these days. I think this is an unconscionable practice on the part of hiring managers, but follow the money.  Incentives work, even bad ones.)  This distorted incentive is because an employer was not required to provide health insurance to part time workers.
[*]More people will be cared for.  More care will be provided.  Maybe some good consequential change in behavior and environment will result. Certainly if you were uninsured and now you are insured, this will improve your lot in life.
[/list]

Less attractive unintended consequences:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Medical costs will continue to rise, with advances in care.  The bargaining power of the government in this effort will not effect prices.  There are lots of examples but for instance the ACA requires experimentation with "alternative payment methods"  a great idea (results based payments, outcomes etc could eliminate a lot of waste). But congress added to the bill a provision that in essence provides "none of these alternative methods can result in paying doctors less than they are paid currently" (thank you AMA lobbying group).
[*]
There will be tremendous success for the drug companies, insurance companies and any business that benefits from more care being provided. This may even include hospitals which have been under pressure for years as they in many cases have to provide care regardless of the ability to pay.
[*]Systems at most institutions (government institutions in particular) will be upgraded with a consequential boon for software providers and consultants.
[*]Our private information will continue to be made less private as data about us as individuals is routed from place to place.
[/list]

We had Romneycare before Obamacare implemented by governor Romney.  It was almost the same thing, but with less teeth.  I think it has been a good thing in our state.

As to the original post, Rate increases, I am not sure that Rate Increase alone is a good way for a citizen to view the matter. It is about what we want our country to be, and what we want our government to require and pay for with our tax dollars. It is about the information and privacy issues that it creates, and the incentives that it provides to all involved.

And it is here to stay.  No politician can stop it now (the r hard line rant is just to embarrass the d's it does not imply that given control they could or would change anything.  Any repeal would disrupt someone's insurance and that would be a bad news cycle for a politician).
 
bruce0 said:
I think the ACA will have several results, many good ones, but some unintended consequences.

The best of the consequences:

[list type=decimal]
[*]We have an epidemic of part time workers in the US and the ACA will eliminate the incentive to hire part time.
I see pretty much the exact opposite.. The ACA creates an incentive for employers to hire more part time and keep workers below that threshold.
The result hopefully will be better trained workers, more full time jobs, and a force in part for improving the relationship between employee and employer.
Huh... The employees are getting squeezed in the middle, by government increasing the cost of new full time workers. 
For those of you offshore... In the US you can save (as a former employer we saw) about 20% to 30% or more on your labor cost by hiring part time.  This is especially true for low paid jobs (including the all important entry level it is so hard for young people to find these days. I think this is an unconscionable practice on the part of hiring managers, but follow the money.  Incentives work, even bad ones.)  This distorted incentive is because an employer was not required to provide health insurance to part time workers.[/list]
yup.. unfortunately...  Healthcare needs to be removed from the employer's plate as a deductible expense and/or responsibility and be shifted to a personal transaction between the individuals and a competitive medical services marketplace (I find the term insurance a misnomer they way it is practiced).  The employer would instead be able to pay workers the extra amount they now spend on health care, and individuals would get the tax deduction (if we don't reform taxes even more beyond that).  Employers then would have no incentive to not hire new workers, or trim back hours to keep existing workers below some artificial threshold. 
  • More people will be cared for.  More care will be provided.  Maybe some good consequential change in behavior and environment will result. Certainly if you were uninsured and now you are insured, this will improve your lot in life.
It is confusing to hear the data or results as presented by both sides. I have heard some contrary reports that despite the huge amounts of money that have been spent already, only a modest decrease in number of uninsured has been realized. I am waiting to see more definitive data and results. 
Less attractive unintended consequences:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Medical costs will continue to rise, with advances in care.  The bargaining power of the government in this effort will not effect prices.  There are lots of examples but for instance the ACA requires experimentation with "alternative payment methods"  a great idea (results based payments, outcomes etc could eliminate a lot of waste). But congress added to the bill a provision that in essence provides "none of these alternative methods can result in paying doctors less than they are paid currently" (thank you AMA lobbying group).
[*]
Yes, medical costs (especially for heroic end of life care) will increase to out-strip our ability to pay... this is the elephant in the room that nobody is willing to acknowledge. The government playbook to manage cost has a short list of options. The medicare model. Is to use price fixing. So procedure XYZ can only charge $X amount. As we learned when the government tried to apply price fixing to the oil market back in the '70s, we could buy gas for the low government price, but only when the gas station was lucky enough to have gas, and then after waiting in long lines on odd/even days... Providers willing to accept medicare patients are less and less every day. Politicians are so dumb they believe they could outlaw gravity and be able to fly if the majority votes yeah.. If you fix the price doctors can charge you will end up with less doctors willing to work and lose money.

The other tool in the government tool box to manage scarce resources (medical care) is rationing. While they don't exactly say no, they make you wait so long for healthcare you can die waiting.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/ The veteran's healthcare system another poster boy for government management of healthcare, is dealing with new charges of some 40 veterans who died while waiting for doctors appointments.  This is still a developing story, so lets not over react to the headline, this may be an isolated case of one horribly mismanaged region, or it could be a warning of things to come. Time will tell.
There will be tremendous success for the drug companies, insurance companies and any business that benefits from more care being provided. This may even include hospitals which have been under pressure for years as they in many cases have to provide care regardless of the ability to pay. [/list]
That was the quid pro quo promise that brought the insurance companies to the table. Hospitals remain under pressure and if anything i see more consolidation of marginal operations. Doctors with private practices are increasingly retiring, or becoming employees of regional hospitals. The jury is still out on how much money insurance companies will make and IIRC the taxpayer backstop to keep insurance companies whole, expires after two years or something like that. If after a few years, we do not get large numbers of young invincibles signing up and paying full ticket insurance to carry the load, this experiment will implode. Some fear that was the plan all along so the government could step in and take the whole thing over. I do not trade in conspiracy theory but believe it is much to soon to take a victory lap for this. 
  • Systems at most institutions (government institutions in particular) will be upgraded with a consequential boon for software providers and consultants.
Yup, I already mentioned the anecdote about a local pharmacy that closed down because of an $18K software upgrade required to be complaint with ACA. Another growth segment will be training to help current medical professionals meet the new ACA paperwork hurdles.
  • Our private information will continue to be made less private as data about us as individuals is routed from place to place.

We had Romneycare before Obamacare implemented by governor Romney.  It was almost the same thing, but with less teeth.  I think it has been a good thing in our state.
Great... this should have stayed a state by state experiment. Canada's system started out as an experiment in one province only that got expanded after it was proved successful there. Reports of Romney care's success are subject to debate and I lived in MA for several years (decades ago). It is not exactly similar to all the other 49 states.
As to the original post, Rate increases, I am not sure that Rate Increase alone is a good way for a citizen to view the matter. It is about what we want our country to be, and what we want our government to require and pay for with our tax dollars. It is about the information and privacy issues that it creates, and the incentives that it provides to all involved.
amen... Some favor smaller government and less government involvement in our private lives.
And it is here to stay.  No politician can stop it now (the r hard line rant is just to embarrass the d's it does not imply that given control they could or would change anything.  Any repeal would disrupt someone's insurance and that would be a bad news cycle for a politician).
I find it useful when political leaders argue that it can not be repealed, to inspect why are they even saying that? If it actually could not be repealed, there would be little reason to talk about it. Unless they are trying reverse psychology (like Brer rabbit, begging to not be thrown into the briar patch.  ;D ;D ).  If ACA was as popular as the leaders want us to believe this would not be a topic of discussion. This will be in play for the mid term election this year.

There are a number of reforms that ACA ignored (like tort reform). There is still a lot of room for actual improvement, and if we want to expand a government run medicare-like system to all ages, we need to do a bunch more work. I wish the republicans were more vocal about presenting alternatives, but the public consciousness seems unable to hold more than one simple idea in focus at the same time, so any attempts to do so fall on deaf ears.

Of course opinions vary, and this is till a work in process. I do find it hard to be very optimistic.

JR
 
I agree with most of your comments.

I do think it is important for the government to do what is practical. Small government is a good idea, but if you are going to have a health care policy that attempts what the ACA attempts the smaller is better issue is pretty much water over the dam.  It is big, that's a fact, and some expedient measures need to be taken to make it work. At that point we as citizens should be concerned about the most important stuff (rights to privacy, freedoms) as opposed to price.

JohnRoberts said:
I find it useful when political leaders argue that it can not be repealed, to inspect why are they even saying that? If it actually could not be repealed, there would be little reason to talk about it.

I think it is a useful cudgel for the R's to beat the D's around the head and neck with, bellowing about various philosophical differences.  It is useful for the R's.  But in reality, the argument is not about policy it is about blame, and votes. 

What politician is going to repeal it?  Repeal would mean (in practice) that a large group would lose insurance.  This would be an untenable political position.

(Using your own money to buy your vote is one of the unfortunate defects of our system. It creates an instability that erodes our freedom, privacy and wallet, but again in practice, it is a fact of life).
 
bruce0 said:
I agree with most of your comments.

I do think it is important for the government to do what is practical. Small government is a good idea, but if you are going to have a health care policy that attempts what the ACA attempts the smaller is better issue is pretty much water over the dam.  It is big, that's a fact, and some expedient measures need to be taken to make it work. At that point we as citizens should be concerned about the most important stuff (rights to privacy, freedoms) as opposed to price.

JohnRoberts said:
I find it useful when political leaders argue that it can not be repealed, to inspect why are they even saying that? If it actually could not be repealed, there would be little reason to talk about it.

I think it is a useful cudgel for the R's to beat the D's around the head and neck with, bellowing about various philosophical differences.  It is useful for the R's.  But in reality, the argument is not about policy it is about blame, and votes. 

What politician is going to repeal it?  Repeal would mean (in practice) that a large group would lose insurance.  This would be an untenable political position.

(Using your own money to buy your vote is one of the unfortunate defects of our system. It creates an instability that erodes our freedom, privacy and wallet, but again in practice, it is a fact of life).

Speaking purely as a matter of political expediency, not right or wrong, the only way to frame drastic reform of ACA in a package that the public could digest is to talk repeal in broad strokes then negotiate that down to reform.. The public likes their entitlements, and most of the rolling changes have been to promote the gratification while postponing the pain. Come Nov, we will have to see how many (likely to vote) are actually happy with ACA.

The republicans are not inherently more honest than the democrats (they are both politicians first) , so they will promise anything and do whatever.  I do believe the right is a little more knowledgeable about matters of budget and economics, so might have a better chance to shape this mess into something sustainable. IMO it isn't now. 

I am not happy that several of my unfavorable predictions have already come true.  This is all very painful to watch play out in slow motion.  I hate to see the country so tangled up.

JR

PS: Is is just me of has the race baiting by politicians made the racial environment so inflammatory that some ugly leaked comments by an NBA team owner require commentary from our president while not even in the country, before all the facts have been verified and the league has time to investigate and act. Reminds me of the Harvard professor and Cambridge police officer non-incident that drew national attention and a make-up beer party in the rose garden to smooth it over after the fact. Let the NBA police their own. The players need to thinking about how to play basketball right now, not distracted by such. The race baiters are already making the sunday TV rounds to gin this up and bask in the brief spotlight from this.
 
It is quite clear that neither R's nor D's are serving us well.  And it is distressing that they both think so little of the electorate that they use such cheap tricks to distract us.

But if we are going to talk about honesty among politicians... I cannot participate, I am not qualified to be an author of fantasy.
 
Mbira said:
I had a rate increase.  I used to not have health insurance-that was for free.  Now I have health insurance.  I am paying $.04 a month out of pocket for the silver plan.

And fellow texans/deficit borrowing are paying the rest. It's not free.  Do you think that you will hesitate to explore or realize additional revenue sources from your software and hardware innovations if it will jeprodize your "free health insurance"? 
I have to keep the pedal to the metal to cover $1000 plus per month insurance costs. Life on the paying side of the equation.
Mike
PS: I thought about this more today, and I think it is a total joke for a system to spend for the accounting, auditing, billing, etc. to actually charge someone $.04 per month for their insurance.  It is like the real system generated checks for $0.00 that doctors post in their offices.  It is a total joke, Joel, and you would never run anything in your personal life like this, yet you welcome it from the government as manna from heaven.  There is an awful disconnect happening here. . . 
 
I do not take pleasure from this but there was an insurance commissioner from GA on TV last night, talking about the difference between how many people who initially signed up/selected insurance on an exchange and how many are still paying their premiums.  The drop off was roughly half.... This is significant. it is hard to say what will happen to these people when they use the healthcare system. I don't know if doctors would or could confirm the payment status of their insurance.

The coming storm is when the insurance companies adjust rates up for next year, to cover the no-pays.

While I didn't notice much change at my local clinic, the radiology department at a nearby hospital asked me to pre-pay the deductible  BEFORE they would perform the XRAY and later an MRI. While they also said if I didn't have the full amount just pay what I could. When I talked to the MRI tech, he complained about how many scheduled patients do not show up.. perhaps because of the co-pay in advance.

It will be interesting to see if the voting public realizes how much of a train wreck this is. come Nov. If the government decided to cover the no pays with our tax dollars the cost of this goes up even more. The money either comes from insurance premiums or tax payers, if the premiums are already to high for these new people to pay, that only leaves us taxpayers.

Hard to be optimistic about this current trajectory.

JR
 
Hudgens probably took pleasure in saying that, whether you do or not.  He came straight out and said he would do everything in his power to obstruct implementation of the ACA (and yes, he did use the word "obstruct."  It was not subtle.)  He's a sleazebag, & I frankly don't trust anything he might say on the matter. 
 

Latest posts

Back
Top