Attention Sony C800G and C37 owners

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ruffrecords

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
16,255
Location
Norfolk - UK
I have a whole bunch of 6AU6/EF94 tubes left over from my early experiments in tube mic pres. Many of them I tested for noise  in the days when I was searching for quiet tubes.

If any C800G owner wants a half dozen, they are yours for the cost of shipping.

Cheers

Ian
 
I have a few spares, but that's a great offer for someone.

I believe they are in the C37 too!
 
Thanks, That'd be great.. I have a few c800g's

I only mess with the russian long type though so if its that type. Found those to sound the best.

J
 
Can I ask - why is this circuit not as popular with the mic guys as all the other classics? I'd love a crack at one - I just don't have $5000 to spend on a mic  :-[
 
dogma said:
Can I ask - why is this circuit not as popular with the mic guys as all the other classics? I'd love a crack at one - I just don't have $5000 to spend on a mic  :-[

I own two originals and 1 diy.. I wouldn't  really call it a classic, its more like a japanese rip off of a u67 / 251 hybrid.

I think most people don't like the top end harshness it brings but I just add a smoothing cap. I think the combination of the k67 capsule left wide open to plate with such high voltages on the tube and no feedback or de-emphesis circuit leaves it undesirable to most builders but the truth is that it sits in a mix very well. its can quite a brittle sound and lacks all the creamy mids but has a nice full bottom and definitely a nice 3dness to it. rihanna / pharell / kanye... religiously all they will use.

They kinda have this phasey thing going on above 3k.

Its simple circuit really...

k67 Copy / Rusian long 6au6a (230v - 5.7v) / 6:1 tx (BV-12 type) / 1uf (ERO MKP 1841)

Sounds bigger than life and its a hot output. power supply is over kill design though. peltillier element is pretty much pointless also.

MA551.JPG

MA552.JPG

MA553.JPG
 
JessJackson said:
Thanks, That'd be great.. I have a few c800g's

I only mess with the Russian long type though so if its that type. Found those to sound the best.

J

I was not aware there is a Russian equivalent. What is its number?

Cheers

Ian
 
JessJackson said:
ruffrecords said:
JessJackson said:
Thanks, That'd be great.. I have a few c800g's

I only mess with the Russian long type though so if its that type. Found those to sound the best.

J

I was not aware there is a Russian equivalent. What is its number?

Cheers

Ian

6j4p

Thanks for that; I learned something new. Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by the Russian 'long type' please.

Cheers

Ian
 
micaddict said:
JessJackson said:
micaddict said:

it doesn't suite her voice / style at all.

Not saying you're wrong, but could you elaborate?


Henk

Its obviously subjective perspective but I think her voice would suite more upfront mids, what people would refer to as a warmer sound. She should be on u47 type in my opinion... The c800g on her and in that style of music sounds sterile / overly 90s modern and unflattering to me. I wouldn't even put her on c12 type.

Cheeers

J
 
JessJackson said:
micaddict said:
JessJackson said:
micaddict said:

it doesn't suite her voice / style at all.

Not saying you're wrong, but could you elaborate?


Henk

Its obviously subjective perspective but I think her voice would suite more upfront mids, what people would refer to as a warmer sound. She should be on u47 type in my opinion... The c800g on her and in that style of music sounds sterile / overly 90s modern and unflattering to me. I wouldn't even put her on c12 type.

Cheeers

J

Thanks for getting back, Jess. I hear what you're saying, but let me share some of my ponderings.

I guess what it boils down to is do we compensate or do we highlight...

But first let me say that Alison has changed quite a bit over the years. In her early years she was into very traditional bluegrass. And her voice had that penetrating, country, midrange twang. Listen to the following (at least up to the one minute mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlNZ7GUTiwI
I'm not going to flood this post with YouTube links, but you'll find a video there too that has an eightteen year old, brown haired Alison performing live ("Don't Follow Me"). Notice she's somewhat boy-ish there and without make up and such.
Later on she evolved into a singer with a much more feminine appearance. Make up, blond hair, dresses (some pretty sexy), the works. And her vocal style changed, too. It became somewhat more poppy and more intimate. Almost whispery with that trademark, aspirated style.

OK, back to microphones. Yes, a U47 will add core to breathy singers. But that's compensating. And since it seems they're after that newer, breathy style, it makes sense they pick a mic that highlights the aspirated voice. One that exaggerates the air band. Well, the Sony C800g does exactly that. The end result may be out of balance, but it does set the artist apart from others.
Not going into taste, mind. That's another matter and again, I hear what you're saying.

Conversely, we often see male singers with very midrangey voices on U47s. A C12 would even that out, but is seldom chosen in such cases. Here's Alison with Brad Paisley, a guy that has that country twang (but does stay low in his range here, so it's not so penetrating it hurts). He's on a 47 or 48. Would have been interesting if he and Alison had traded mics for a take.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHhl2IQdgN4

Finally, I'll say that I'm a singer, too. A bass baritone with ample lows. In live situations where it's hard to control those guys, I've had sound engineers roll off just about all the lows I've got, in their quest for that even tone. Or one that "sits well in the mix". Trademark sound down the drain. Well, not completely because part of the magic is in the mids, but you get the point. Others took a different approach and highlighted that low timbre as much as they could, but staying clear from true mud.



Henk

 
jackies said:
micaddict said:
A bass baritone with ample lows.

Which studio condenser you reckon provides best results capturing your rich velvety tone?

Good question and one I ask myself all the time.

I don't want to derail this thread, but/so I hope the OP allows me this one off-topic post.

I'll narrow this down to LDCs, since those are the prime suspects.

First one that comes to mind is the U47 and family.
This is the crooner's microphone, but if there's lots of resonance on the voice, the mids/high mids can be a little electrical sounding to my ears. Also, it has a pretty huge proximity effect (though nothing like an RCA 44 ribbon), so if you like to come in close for that intimate stuff, lows really need to be rolled off. (Quite the opposite of live mics that have this roll off built in.)

On the other end of the spectrum would be the C12 and family.
Where the U47 has the midrange bulge, the C12 sooner has a subtle and broad scoop there. If used on a vocalist in the first place, it's sooner a woman than a man. But I've had some luck on "girl's microphones", too. Results can be more "hifi"as well as more "fleshy" (rather than electrical) than the typical U47 sound. But yes, it can perhaps be a little too "friendly" on male voices or lacking some gut if you will. And those who believe in squeezing a vocal into a busy mix, won't go for it, either.

Then there's the U67 and family.
This one doesn't quite have the midrange bulge of the U47, but it can still sound mid forward, especially if it says "Neumann" on it. The center termination on the capsule (M7/K47 and K67/87) versus the edge termniation (CK12) alone, explains much of this difference. Just try this on a drum.
Also, the U67 has a better controlled proximity effect, so you can come in quite close, even with a more booming voice.

M49 has my interest as well, but more investigation is needed there.

My current favorites for my voice (but addicts are always on the lookout) are the U67 and the Brauner Valvet X. The latter has a K67 capsule too, but is more open on top (less de-emphasis). That said, the U67 takes EQ like no other.
Both invite you to come closer.
It's no coincidence perhaps. The timbre of my voice is much like Jim Reeves in his later years (not saying I'm the singer he was, mind). And he did his sixties recordings close up on a U67. Talk about velvet.  :eek:

But there are other classic baritone/mic combinations, of course. Bing Crosby on an RCA 44, Nat Cole and Frank Sinatra on a U47/48. Just to name a few.
The latter two vocalists IMO are nice examples of what I was trying to say in my earlier post about compensating/complementing and highlighting/enlarging. Nat King Cole was a heavy smoker with some breathiness in his tone. Here the U47 complements and adds some extra core, I'd say. Frank Sinatra had a reedy, almost brassy midrange which was augmented by the U47/48, making that sound even more characteristic.

Hope this helps.

Now... back to Sony, please.  :)


Henk
 
micaddict said:
First one that comes to mind is the U47 and family.
This is the crooner's microphone, but if there's lots of resonance on the voice, the mids/high mids can be a little electrical sounding to my ears. Also, it has a pretty huge proximity effect (though nothing like an RCA 44 ribbon), so if you like to come in close for that intimate stuff, lows really need to be rolled off. (Quite the opposite of live mics that have this roll off built in.)

Henk

...first time I've seen the mids/high mids referred to as "electrical sounding"...it's what has disappointed me about using
47-influenced mics on certain singers, yet I've never been able to find an accurate description for the slightly droning/buzzy resonance that I sometimes hear...thanks for summing it up so simply and accurately for me...

BTW, Dany's M49 has none of that, thank goodness!
 
BTW, Dany's M49 has none of that, thank goodness!

Right. Interestingly, the M49 has the M7/K47/K49 capsule too, but the circuit makes it woollier or fleshier sounding than the U47.
Same for the Horch RM2J.

Again, more males on the U47 and more females on the M49. But there are exceptions, of course. Leonard Cohen comes to mind.

Over and out.  ;)
 
JessJackson said:
ruffrecords said:
JessJackson said:
Thanks, That'd be great.. I have a few c800g's

I only mess with the Russian long type though so if its that type. Found those to sound the best.

J

I was not aware there is a Russian equivalent. What is its number?

Cheers

Ian

6j4p


I was looking through my hoard the other day, putting together a view to send off to a C800G owner, when I found I do have four of the Russian ones. Do you want them?

Cheers

Ian
 
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