What is your preferred way to integrate external hardware in a home studio?

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pitol678

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
54
First of all, I havent been at this for very long. I use Reaper with a Tascam 1800 and some 500 series pres and EQ's most of which are from CAPI DIY kits. I just finished the 553f kit and am trying to figure out how to run a track through the EQ for mixing purposes. I asked in two different post on the Reaper forum but havent had much luck and am getting a bit frustrated.

The problem is:
1.) Reaper's plugin "ReaInsert" (used for external hardware) has some issues in that I cant run the track through w/o it coming back out of sync with the rest of the tracks not to mention that I cant hear other tracks when ReaInsert is engaged which makes mixing in context of the other tracks impossible.

2.) I can send the track to the EQ w/o ReaInsert and just record the input on a new track BUT the changes I hear as Im EQ'ing the track do not sound as they do when I play back the recorded track.

So...how do other home "studio" people do this type of thing? Do I need a different interface? Save up for a different DAW? I have Cubase LE5 that came with my interface but unless I know its going to be better for this purpose I dont really want to waste my time. Am I missing something? It also seems that others have had ongoing issues with Reaper' ReaInsert plugin, but not everyone, so maybe its a combination of different issues like compatibility of the DAW and interface? Any suggestions would be VERY much appreciated, Im really determined to make this work and have gotten no where on Reaper's forum. Thanks!
 
I sometimes use insert plugin I/O to set up the mix, once I know what I'm doing I recorded it to a new track, I use logic that has an option to keep a bus or a channel always in solo, so when you put solo to another track it always keeps on, depending on how you configure it out it does what is expected, I don't know other DAWs.

I use a lot a tape delay and I record it in a new track because I run it a couple of times with different effects, I also use a symmetric compressor but I use it in an insert for one channel, as snare or bass depending on where I want it, but never need it more than once in a mix. I'm building an analog mixer so some of this problems goes away because I'll be mixing outside the box but it will take a while to have it working.

There aren't much ways to do that, and always is the same chain, the only thing that changes is if you are comfortable with it or not, and if you have some trouble with your conversion loosing quality because DA/AD loop it can't be change with the DAW, only with the sound card or converters. Find the way you feel most comfortable in your DAW for each situation.

JS
 
I use Cakewalk sonar with their insert plugin and it works really well. At times it has trouble calculating the delay, but it seems like a hardware quirk, more than a problem with the DAW.
I've tried using Reaper and IMO their insert plugin doesn't work. Reaper is entry level I think - you get what you pay for.

Also, for parallel external effects you might need a send and blend. I am just building one now because I find that when trying parallel compression the delay compensation isn't good enough. The accuracy of 1 sample may still cause phase issues? Maybe it's possible to get it dialed in (maybe higher sample rates???)  but I decided to go the blender route.
 
pitol678 said:
1.) Reaper's plugin "ReaInsert" (used for external hardware) has some issues in that I cant run the track through w/o it coming back out of sync with the rest of the tracks not to mention that I cant hear other tracks when ReaInsert is engaged which makes mixing in context of the other tracks impossible.

From what I've read there still seem to be problems with ReaInsert and proper syncing.  I haven't looked into it in a while, but I seem to recall it was one of those things where some people had it working fine, and others never did quite get it to work the way they wanted.  Like DMP said, it may be something with hardware having inconsistent sample latency, but I really haven't dug in very deeply or looked at it in a while.

Why is it that you're not able to hear other tracks when ReaInsert is engaged?  That sounds to me like there's something funny with the way you're routing it... you should be able to use it with other tracks playing just fine.  What kind of interface and routing are you using?

2.) I can send the track to the EQ w/o ReaInsert and just record the input on a new track BUT the changes I hear as Im EQ'ing the track do not sound as they do when I play back the recorded track.

That sounds unusual as well...  Any chance that you've run the send to a HW output but left the "master send" option checked, such that you're listening to both the send and the pre-send-dry track?


dmp said:
Reaper is entry level I think - you get what you pay for.

I came from Cubase and have found Reaper to be very powerful and flexible (except ReaInsert, which is probably the only thing I had an issue with and looked up to find people say it wasn't ready for prime-time...).  It's definitely a fully capable professional package, even though they don't charge $500+ for it.  In the long term, their pricing and delivery model may be pretty disruptive to the industry if they can sustain it the same as they have.  It's already becoming a de-facto second after Protools just due to the sheer number of people using the trial license and increasing number of pros using it for real work.
 
I use Reaper and Reainsert quite a bit.  I actually bailed from Cakewalk because I wanted to use hardware inserts and it never worked right.  Reaper worked right off the bat.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Now...

You should probably make sure that your recording offsets in Reaper are working right.  That's a slightly different topic but you can check that by sending out a pre-recorded track and re-recording it to a new track.  Ideally the waveforms should line up perfectly.  You'll probably have a shift in some X samples though and you'll need to apply some buffer offsets to resolve that.

As far as Reainsert itself is concerned.  The main thing is making sure your getting the round-trip latency compensated for.

Plug a cable directly from your audio interface output to the audio interface input that you want to use as an insert.

Fire up Reainsert and configure it to use the audio in/out channels that you have connected.

Reainsert has a button called "Delay Compensation Auto-Detect"  Hit that button and Reainsert will send a spike through your D/A/D chain and calculate the amount of latency it needs to use to keep audio in sync when processed through the plugin.  There's also a new setting for automatic calculation based on soundcard reported latency.  I'd rather manually measure it.

Now...Some things to keep in mind.  If you change sample rates or adjust your latency (for example from super-low for playing soft-synths to "normal" for mixing), you'll need to recalculate the latency for Reainsert.  Another really stupid problem is that some manufacturers of audio interfaces don't seem to get the same latency on all of their I/O channels.  You might want to thoroughly test your A/D/A for consistent latency.

I created Reainsert presets for Mono/Stereo I/O and saved the latency in those presets.  I've changed my mixing habits and don't use Reainsert as much as I used to within mixes, but I still use it in every project.  I used to get away with around 10-12 Reainsert instances per mix.  Where it really starts to get flakey is when you're routing signals through multiple instances of Reainsert.

For instance...

Kick drum has a Reainsert EQ on it.
Snare drum has a Reainsert compressor on it.
Drum Buss has a Reainsert preamp for some added flavor, and also a send to another track that has a parallel Reainsert compressor for SMASH.

That can cause some issues.

In general, you want to keep an eye on your routing.  I would generally use plugs on individual elements, and hardware for overall group processing and special effects like reverb.

We think back on analog multi-trackers and how much of a maintenance nightmare they were and think that our DAWs are free of any issues.  I think you'll be surprised by how much "slop" there is in a DAW that's not had it's I/O thoroughly tested and calibrated.  Get that worked out, and then tweak the hardware insert settings and make some presets for it.  You'll be processing with outboard just fine.
 
I'm glad to hear these positive things about Reaper - maybe I developed a bias from an early bad experience. It deserves another look I think.

I don't know why it is so hard for the DAW developers to get the insert function working well. I am guessing not many people use it, so it is a low priority?
 
My experience with Reainsert hasn't been all rosey, but it works fine most of the time.

My absolute worst problems with Reainsert had to do with the "buffering playback of doom."  You're working on a mix, bass guitar isn't happening, you stop playback, insert a hardware chain of "phat" compression and EQ, hit the play button and watch Reaper get stuck at "Buffering..."

At that point you just have to force close Reaper and restart, losing any work you had done since your previous save.  The frustrating part....After putting everything back (including your Reainsert chain) and saving the project (before hitting play), things would work just fine.

I haven't seen this in awhile though.

One awesome aspect of Reaper....I found a bug that impacted overall performance of Reaper and Real-Time CPU usage.  Within a couple of weeks it was patched and released. 

Another awesome aspect...I haven't had to re-up my license in like 5 years.  All the latest features/code improvements, no additional cost.
 
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