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G-Sun

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
980
Location
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Hello folks!

What would be typical choices for DIY mastering gear?
If focusing on the mojo part of it, and not so much the functionality,
what direction would I go then?
 
I'd look at Drip Electronics. His DIY stuff is no compromise mastering grade stuff. Specifically I'd go for Drip Fairchild 670  ;D
 
Well, I don't really do mastering (I'm in post) but I'd maybe look into the following:

Dual 1176
GSSL (or any version of the same SSL stereo compressor)
Fairchild compressor
Pultec EQ
 
G-Sun said:
KDE said:
Specifically I'd go for Drip Fairchild 670  ;D
Does that mean
mastering gear = the most expensive gear
?
No it means that Drip makes one of the best Fairchild 670 recreations and the 670 is one of the most highly regarded mastering bus compressors in existence. Going DIY on a Fairchild is (to me) one of the only reasonable ways to get one because your buying it part for part and not paying for hype say if you were to buy a remake off of a dealer.
 
mattiasNYC said:
Well, I don't really do mastering (I'm in post) but I'd maybe look into the following:

Dual 1176
GSSL (or any version of the same SSL stereo compressor)
Fairchild compressor
Pultec EQ
Yes, maybe a 1178 and a dual pulteq is something to consider.
 
KDE said:
G-Sun said:
KDE said:
Specifically I'd go for Drip Fairchild 670  ;D
Does that mean
mastering gear = the most expensive gear
?
No it means that Drip makes one of the best Fairchild 670 recreations and the 670 is one of the most highly regarded mastering bus compressors in existence. Going DIY on a Fairchild is (to me) one of the only reasonable ways to get one because your buying it part for part and not paying for hype say if you were to buy a remake off of a dealer.

I'm sure the Drip is a good recreation but I don't know a single pro mastering engineer with a Fairchild in the chain, or even a close clone.  I'm a fulltime mastering guy here in L.A. and I follow pretty closely what everyone is using.  I do know some folks using E.A.R. 660s but they are very far from the original 670 design (and much better for mastering IMO).  I've used Fairchilds and some clones and there is nothing useful there for mastering IMO, as a bus compressor in mixing yes, perhaps.

As for the value of the drip I'm not sure I see it.  Larry Janus' beautifully recreated Fairchild retails for $7k and is built better than anything I know, it is stunning and sounds fantastic.  As far as I can gather from talking to builders a Drip will run about $5k in parts alone and many hours in build time.  To me that equation doesn't add up.



 
mattiasNYC said:
Well, I don't really do mastering (I'm in post) but I'd maybe look into the following:

Dual 1176
GSSL (or any version of the same SSL stereo compressor)
Fairchild compressor
Pultec EQ

My personal opinion is that colored gear is not very useful in the mastering chain and that is something I've arrived at after listening to lots and lots of gear.  I'm lucky enough to live in a place where I can rent or borrow almost anything.

Of the above pieces I've already commented on the Fairchild.  The Dual 1176 will be too colored in the wrong way for mastering, I think even too much for mix bus. 

The SSL clone would be my favorite choice from the list but in recent history I have tried a Smart C1 and C2, TK Audio, Shadow Audio SB4000, Vertigo VSC-2 (sorta SSLish) and not kept one of them, in the past I've used real SSL rack and console compressors and other clones.  Of course my taste may not equal your taste but in this case I was looking for excitement for certain pop and hip hop masters.

Re the Pultecs I have a friend who has mastered a hundreds of records you all know and some of the most famous rock records of all time.  He has a very nice pair of reconditioned Pultecs in his console that never get turned on...

I've thought about building the 176 clone but having ordered the Rev 4 PCBs there were so many errors I got turned off, I'm hoping to do my own simple tube compressor this winter.

Good luck in the search.
 
ruairioflaherty said:
My personal opinion is that colored gear is not very useful in the mastering chain and that is something I've arrived at after listening to lots and lots of gear.

I actually agree with you. He said he wanted "mojo" so I took that to mean he wanted colored gear. As I said I've done little mastering of music, only about 6-10 records, since I'm in audio post really, so the discussion of "to mojo or not to mojo" is something that I'm not really "invested" in.

I will say however that I've seen incredibly varying levels of mastering, with some using only plugs, some using outboard (digital and/or analog), and all with really varying results ranging from really great to "I could have done that myself."
 
ruairioflaherty said:
My personal opinion is that colored gear is not very useful in the mastering chain and that is something I've arrived at after listening to lots and lots of gear.
Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your input.

But then a question arises for me. If analogue gear is not for adding some mojo, and transparency is the goal,
isn't digital a far better route for me to go? I find digital to do transparent and functional very well.
Should I bother at all with thinking analog gear for mastering?

Note that I'm not running any mastering-business. I just like to master my own projects, partly for education, partly for cost-saving and maybe most: because I allways end up needing those extra tweaks to the mix :)
 
G-Sun said:
Should I bother at all with thinking analog gear for mastering?

There are many flavors of clean. I don't find digital gear a good substitute for analog gear. Digital does some things better and other things not as well. My suggestion would be to try some different things out. Since your goal is more to work on your own stuff a personal quirky setup is fine if it meets your needs.

The DAOC compressor would be a good choice for a mastering compressor. You can choose the transformers to give you as much mojo as you want. The compressor circuit is pretty clean. It doesn't sound "tubey". It's not a flexible unit but it does what it does very well. I use it as a sloppy limiter or smootherizer with very little compressor action. It can do fairly deep gain reduction well too, on the right material.
 
Agree with Paul here, the very best thing to do is beg, borrow and rent as much gear as you can and listen for yourself.  98% of internet advice - (possibly including mine) is out to lunch.

I've been putting together the best possible plug in chain in recent months for some pop work that I do that demands extreme level. Lately when I have time I am mastering singles in both domains, entirely independently and choosing the winner.  Workflow and tactile differences are at least as important as sonic differences, each path leads me in a different direction.  I'm still finding my analog chain wins more often but certainly not always (especially if the mix is excellent or the level requirements insane).

If I had to EQ in the box forevermore I could though I enjoy using hardware.  For compression the plugs are closing in but still can't match outboard IMO.

I haven't used the DAOC so I can't add anything to that discussion, on paper the fact that it relies solely on the vactrol for time constants seems limiting to me (pun not intended).  My Pendulum OCL-2 has a similar mode and I almost never use it, different vactrol though so my opinion is probably irrelevant.  I think the OCL-2 is a phenomenally flexible tool if you are open to checking out commercial pieces.
 
Thanks!

On mastering-compressor: When you say you like this compressor over the other. Do you think of the sonic imprint of the unit, or the way the compression is applied?
And the same goes for eq I guess.
 
G-Sun said:
Thanks!

On mastering-compressor: When you say you like this compressor over the other. Do you think of the sonic imprint of the unit, or the way the compression is applied?
And the same goes for eq I guess.

Predictability is a big deal for me with audio gear, I want to work quickly.  I hear a mix, decide what it needs and in the ideal world I want to get to that sound as quickly and intuitively as possible.  The longer I spend trying to find the right sound the more likely I am to lose perspective or tune out.

I'm not really looking for a sonic imprint, ideally the gear doesn't leave much of a footprint outside of doing what I need it to.  For compression the time constants and the controls are a huge part of the picture for me, for EQ I like clean.  Across the board I like gear that bends gracefully and forgives abuse.

 
ruairioflaherty said:
G-Sun said:
Thanks!

On mastering-compressor: When you say you like this compressor over the other. Do you think of the sonic imprint of the unit, or the way the compression is applied?
And the same goes for eq I guess.

Predictability is a big deal for me with audio gear, I want to work quickly.  I hear a mix, decide what it needs and in the ideal world I want to get to that sound as quickly and intuitively as possible.  The longer I spend trying to find the right sound the more likely I am to lose perspective or tune out.

I'm not really looking for a sonic imprint, ideally the gear doesn't leave much of a footprint outside of doing what I need it to.  For compression the time constants and the controls are a huge part of the picture for me, for EQ I like clean.  Across the board I like gear that bends gracefully and forgives abuse.
Ok, so it's all about functionality and transparency for you?
 
G-Sun said:
Ok, so it's all about functionality and transparency for you?

Yes, along with ease of use.  Analog has a big advantage over digital in that you can grab a knob and turn, plug ins change how we interact with music.  I use plugs on every master I do but I don't enjoy the mousing around.
 
"Mastering" these days is about making decisions, and knowing something about what your equipment does and how it can be used.

Ask others for advice...? If YOU don't know what to do, how can you make that work as a mastering operation? I don't get it.
 
My 2 cents for beginners...

Mastering isn't about equipment...well ok it is but more importantly its about knowing what a mix needs to sound the best it can out in the world.

Ruairi said "I hear a mix, decide what it needs...". Thats the whole ball game. Thats Mastering. Its takes a lot of years to be able to sit down with any type of music and "Decide what it needs" It takes time to build and get to know a monitoring system that you are intimate with and know will translate. So when you go play the song on a car stereo or boom box what "you decided" makes sense.

I would suggest using a plugin parametric EQ into an L2. Thats all you really need. If you work with that for a while on all types of program material and keep checking what you do on stereos boom boxes computer speakers etc. you will start to get a feel for what your monitoring system is doing and where it is lacking.

Concentrate solely on your monitors and room until you can get the sound you expect when played on other systems.

On a well balanced monitoring system you can instantly tell when a mix is to "boomy" or "harsh in the upper mids or the cymbals are too bright and splashy. (subjectively according to your taste).

Use the EQ to correct these problems the best you can. Then use some limiting to get some volume. You will have to go back to the EQ and re adjust for the limiting you just did. Back and forth sculpting the sound.

It just takes a lot of time and experience to make these decisions.
Once you get a handle on this it is time to start looking at some gear to help you do things with the sound that your basic tools wont allow you to do.

First figure out how to sculpt with a big chisel to make the basic shape. Then refine by sanding and polishing.

Try mastering anything you can. It will mostly be crappy mixes your friends do and you will struggle like mad to make them sound like professional masters of the same genre. Keep A/B'ing. If you get really frustrated, GOOD. That means your learning.

You will naturally know what tools to try wether its plugins or hardware because you have an informed direction to go in.
Let your experimentation and tenacity teach you.

After some years you will start feeling confident, call your self a mastering engineer, and join the hundred million other mastering engineers out there:)

 
nhaudio said:
the DAOC would be a good candidate

I agree. I limited my suggestions to projects available here. It is certainly not a desert island compressor. The older I get the more I realize how much of an art compressor side chain design is.

The OP said he wanted a setup to do post processing of his mixes. Not start in on a commercial operation. All the advice for mastering is right on but I don't think the OP wants to do mastering in the current meaning of the word.
 
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