Low cost saturation circuit designs?

Im quite new to this area and investigating the options for low cost saturation circuits.

In pro audio it seems expensive transformers are the most popular choices - however I see lower cost designs like those used in the DIY Projects Colour kits:

JFET
Germanium Diode

etc

http://store.diyrecordingequipment.com/colour/

Also in things like the Focusrite Penta (JFET I believe)...

What other options are there these days for some decent sounding drivable saturation? I can drive the Op Amps of my Akai sampler - but are modern Op Amps too clean (until ugly break up...)?

Thanks for any thoughts...

The first question would be: What kind of sound are you looking for?

The transformer circuit in the Colour Project sounds great. But IMO it's not really about saturation, but about the way the transformer driven (not overdriven) by the op amp changes the sound in a very flattering way - adding punch, definition, presence and sparkle to the mix while (at least subjectively) attenuating frequencies that stick out. It just makes everything sound better and easier to mix. I like it so much that I inserted this circuit in every channel of my console. ;-)

For actual "saturation" the JFET or "tape simulation" from that project ist even cheaper and very effective.

There are also lot's of pedals, commercial and DIY, that can add a variety of distortion to the signal. And there was at least one tube distortion rack unit project here.

But again, you first need to define the parameters of what you're looking for sonically.

hi greg - the truth is I would have to test a variety before fully deciding or knowing. Im mainly looking to add some size and punch to a signal - ideally softening the highs a touch. But only audibly distorting in the most extreme degrees of pushing...Im not too worries about esoteric tonal shaping - just taking a signal and adding the above...in the demos of the DIY JFET and Germanium diodes - they seemed to distort a bit obviously...the ctx seemed quite sublte - at least on drums...on bass it sounded excellent...

SWAN808 said:

hi greg - the truth is I would have to test a variety before fully deciding or knowing. Im mainly looking to add some size and punch to a signal - ideally softening the highs a touch. But only audibly distorting in the most extreme degrees of pushing...Im not too worries about esoteric tonal shaping - just taking a signal and adding the above...in the demos of the DIY JFET and Germanium diodes - they seemed to distort a bit obviously...the ctx seemed quite sublte - at least on drums...on bass it sounded excellent...

Click to expand...

You can get the CTX to distort more by adding a DC bias to the signal going to the transformer. But I really like the punch and defintion I'm getting from it in my console.

living sounds said:

SWAN808 said:

hi greg - the truth is I would have to test a variety before fully deciding or knowing. Im mainly looking to add some size and punch to a signal - ideally softening the highs a touch. But only audibly distorting in the most extreme degrees of pushing...Im not too worries about esoteric tonal shaping - just taking a signal and adding the above...in the demos of the DIY JFET and Germanium diodes - they seemed to distort a bit obviously...the ctx seemed quite sublte - at least on drums...on bass it sounded excellent...

Click to expand...

You can get the CTX to distort more by adding a DC bias to the signal going to the transformer. But I really like the punch and defintion I'm getting from it in my console.

Click to expand...

thnats interesting...Ive never heard a transformer really pushed - it often seems pretty subtle...

You have the ctx in your console? Problem is - thats the most expensive colour...about $54 per channel...but perhaps the direct cost is less...

SWAN808 said:

thnats interesting...Ive never heard a transformer really pushed - it often seems pretty subtle...

You have the ctx in your console? Problem is - thats the most expensive colour...about $54 per channel...but perhaps the direct cost is less...

Click to expand...

It is subtle (otherwise I wouldn't put it in the console) but then it is also not. Distortion in my console (very low thanks to lots of optimisations) stays the same with the transformer installed as it is without it, at least if you don't use very low test tones and go near the point where the channel output amp clips. But I'm using the high nickel trafo, Colour has the 50/50 version installed I think. It just gives this nice Neve-ish sheen and definition.

It gets cheaper, yes, I built it all on veroboard. But if all you need is a two-channel solution I would just buy the Colour kit. Peterson has really done some great work, and I'm grateful he was so helpfull and published his schematics.

The CTX may not even be what you are looking for. For example. something very simple like a slightly overdriven 5534 might fullfill your need better.

living sounds said:

SWAN808 said:

thnats interesting...Ive never heard a transformer really pushed - it often seems pretty subtle...

You have the ctx in your console? Problem is - thats the most expensive colour...about $54 per channel...but perhaps the direct cost is less...

Click to expand...

It is subtle (otherwise I wouldn't put it in the console) but then it is also not. Distortion in my console (very low thanks to lots of optimisations) stays the same with the transformer installed as it is without it, at least if you don't use very low test tones and go near the point where the channel output amp clips. But I'm using the high nickel trafo, Colour has the 50/50 version installed I think. It just gives this nice Neve-ish sheen and definition.

It gets cheaper, yes, I built it all on veroboard. But if all you need is a two-channel solution I would just buy the Colour kit. Peterson has really done some great work, and I'm grateful he was so helpfull and published his schematics.

The CTX may not even be what you are looking for. For example. something very simple like a slightly overdriven 5534 might fullfill your need better.

Click to expand...

thanks - yeah I think ultimately the proof will be in the pudding - simply auditioning possibilities...

In terms of overdriving components like the 5534 - I got the idea that newer components tend to be linear all the way up to a certain level then distort unpleasantly - as opposed to older components which were technically worse - but had smoother driven characteristics - is that the case?

SWAN808 said:

thanks - yeah I think ultimately the proof will be in the pudding - simply auditioning possibilities...

In terms of overdriving components like the 5534 - I got the idea that newer components tend to be linear all the way up to a certain level then distort unpleasantly - as opposed to older components which were technically worse - but had smoother driven characteristics - is that the case?

Click to expand...

There are lot's of people here who can give you a better answer on this. But technically the 5534 is still pretty good (and often good enough, as long as it's implimented properly. After trying a lot of chips and learning how to get them to run properly I don't have much need for modern high speed op amps.

And I think the sound of an overdriven 5534/5532 in a console master can sound really cool.

living sounds said:

SWAN808 said:

thanks - yeah I think ultimately the proof will be in the pudding - simply auditioning possibilities...

In terms of overdriving components like the 5534 - I got the idea that newer components tend to be linear all the way up to a certain level then distort unpleasantly - as opposed to older components which were technically worse - but had smoother driven characteristics - is that the case?

Click to expand...

There are lot's of people here who can give you a better answer on this. But technically the 5534 is still pretty good (and often good enough, as long as it's implimented properly. After trying a lot of chips and learning how to get them to run properly I don't have much need for modern high speed op amps.

And I think the sound of an overdriven 5534/5532 in a console master can sound really cool.

Click to expand...

interesting thanks for the tip...Im looking to build my own device although partly inspired by the Colour project...but 8 channels in a summing unit...to buy 8 channels of colour and put in a 500 rack -> summing - is quite expensive...

Hi, check Hamptone HJFP, it is cheap and easy to build Jfet preamp module. You need two of them in series to get controled distortion, it is still cheap this way because input transformers are needed only for mics. I had a lot of fun and nice distortion without OT transformer, biasing is easy here and makes big difference. 2ch with dual modules and without chasis cost a lot less than 100eur, if you can make it on veroboard and make your own psu.. This is cheapest and simplest circuit i built to have nice distortion. Imo tubes need a few stages with filters to achieve what you want.

My3gger said:

Hi, check Hamptone HJFP, it is cheap and easy to build Jfet preamp module. You need two of them in series to get controled distortion, it is still cheap this way because input transformers are needed only for mics. I had a lot of fun and nice distortion without OT transformer, biasing is easy here and makes big difference. 2ch with dual modules and without chasis cost a lot less than 100eur, if you can make it on veroboard and make your own psu.. This is cheapest and simplest circuit i built to have nice distortion. Imo tubes need a few stages with filters to achieve what you want.

Click to expand...

thanks Ill check that out... 8)