Best of the 'affordable' CK12-type capsules?

I'm talking about the Mic Parts, and the Advanced Audio 'CK12' -types. I find these tempting to try, but really have no idea. Is it just false economy? Will they sound much better/different than the cheap K67-style capsule they might replace? (Is the edge-terminated configuration more style than substance at this price point?)

$500 capsules are out of my budget right now. I could see spending maybe $200-250, but only if there was a remarkable difference in quality over the cheap ones.

Just looking for a bit of feedback from some of you who I'm sure have been through this process...

thanks
Dave

Will they sound much better/different than the cheap K67-style capsule they might replace?

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Yes! Most of the time the K67-style capsules are used in a circuit without HF de-emphasis, resulting in an over bright microphone.
The CK-12 style capsules work well with a 'flat' circuit.
They have a very 'open' high end, without ever sounding harsh.
Personally I have very good experience wit the Mic&Mod CK-12 capsules.
Very reasonable price and excellent quality.

RuudNL said:

Will they sound much better/different than the cheap K67-style capsule they might replace?

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Yes! Most of the time the K67-style capsules are used in a circuit without HF de-emphasis, resulting in an over bright microphone.
The CK-12 style capsules work well with a 'flat' circuit.
They have a very 'open' high end, without ever sounding harsh.
Personally I have very good experience wit the Mic&Mod MK-12 capsules.
Very reasonable price and excellent quality.

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Thanks for your reply. I guess those would be comparable to the ones I mentioned(?)

BTW, they are for an experimental dual-capsule stereo head, (think AKG C-422) and will be used mostly for mid-distance ensemble recording (as opposed to close instrument miking) so probably some HF accentuation will not go astray, even with the very flat-response preamps I plan to use them with.

Anyone have experience with the actual MicParts or AA CK12-type capsules?

thanks again
Dave

...I had great results with the same capsule that Chunger offers (34mm 6-micron mylar, edge-terminated, pic below) and his is the most affordable ($70)...I believe it is currently the same as the capsule offered by Advanced Audio...
http://store.studio939.com/product/35mm-k67-style-capsule

...I've not used the microphone-parts capsule which uses 3-micron mylar...both are comparable quality with the mylar thickness being the most obvious difference (the thinnest mylar used on the original AKG C12 capsules was 6-micron, unless I'm mistaken)...an edge-terminated capsule, when implemented properly, can offer an pleasantly airy top-end and extended low to low-mid response as compared with the typical K67 center-terminated type capsule...

Hi kidvybes 8>]

I guess it's a bit of a crapshoot when you get down to it, eh. At least at that price point there's not too much to loose.

The Mic. Parts one looks decent, but the 3 micron material has got me puzzled. I heard it can get brittle over time...and to what advantage, if the original was 6u, then...? I'd like to trust the various suppliers, they seem like nice enough fellows...but I also get the feeling there's sometimes a bit of fairy dust involved...if not outright bulldust! 8>]

Is chunger offering matched (more or less) pairs? Where do I buy? 8>]

Dave

shaggy said:

Hi kidvybes 8>]

I guess it's a bit of a crapshoot when you get down to it, eh. At least at that price point there's not too much to loose.

The Mic. Parts one looks decent, but the 3 micron material has got me puzzled. I heard it can get brittle over time...and to what advantage, if the original was 6u, then...? I'd like to trust the various suppliers, they seem like nice enough fellows...but I also get the feeling there's sometimes a bit of fairy dust involved...if not outright bulldust! 8>]

Is chunger offering matched (more or less) pairs? Where do I buy? 8>]

Dave

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Dave, you have to understand that all of the less-expensive China-sourced C12 capsules are originating from 2 primary factory sources, regardless of whose selling them...you can visually differentiate them by either the recessed flathead-screw type (3-micron Microphone-parts) or the raised phillips-head screw type (6-micron Chunger, AA)...so rather than which vendor, you'd do best to decide if you want the 3-micron or the 6-micron build and go for the best pricepoint (I've seen the same C12 capsule as Chunger's currently selling for as much as $149 on eBay)...

I believe these are both very decent quality, price-considered, so no fairy-dust, IMHO...mass-produced to meet price-points...as far as matched-pairs, I'm not sure I'd worry about that...I posted Chunger's store link in my previous post...

BTW, I suspect Telefunken uses the same capsule as the Microphone-parts for their current AR-51 mic (pic below)...

The parts may be made in the same one or two factories, but many of the US importers claim they have some control over the quality of the mics and parts they stock. I guess this is less likely to apply in the case of these budget capsules, but I guess it's still possible 8>]

Thanks for the link. Looks like the edge-terminated ones are out of stock.

Dave

shaggy said:

The parts may be made in the same one or two factories, but many of the US importers claim they have some control over the quality of the mics and parts they stock. I guess this is less likely to apply in the case of these budget capsules, but I guess it's still possible 8>]

Thanks for the link. Looks like the edge-terminated ones are out of stock.

Dave

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Hi Dave it's not the C12 type ones that are out of stock its the K67 type that are. 

Iirc, Tim C.'s capsule is still priced at only usd350 - for a fully hand-built and beautifully sounding capsule.

Because of his much-too-low prices, he has way too much work, occasionally resulting in a long lead time - so you must be prepared to wait a while.

Jakob E.

benqbasic said:

shaggy said:

The parts may be made in the same one or two factories, but many of the US importers claim they have some control over the quality of the mics and parts they stock. I guess this is less likely to apply in the case of these budget capsules, but I guess it's still possible 8>]

Thanks for the link. Looks like the edge-terminated ones are out of stock.

Dave

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Hi Dave it's not the C12 type ones that are out of stock its the K67 type that are. 

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OK...thanks

gyraf said:

Iirc, Tim C.'s capsule is still priced at only usd350 - for a fully hand-built and beautifully sounding capsule.

Because of his much-too-low prices, he has way too much work, occasionally resulting in a long lead time - so you must be prepared to wait a while.

Jakob E.

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Yes, I'm aware of and appreciate Tim's (and others') work in capsule-building and tuning expertise. At present however money is an issue, and I have to do what I can with a smaller budget than I'd like (also for my current project I need two similar capsules, not just one) 8>]

Dave

Tim's capsules are cheap for the quality !

He has reskined also perfectly well one of my original AKG CK12

i don't think that the chinese capsules are even in the same league ...

Thanks for the kind words Frederic. I understand shaggy's problem exactly. All of the new chinese edge terminated capsules that I've heard sound decent for the price. Find one in your price range and go for it. You can always upgrade later if you want. By the way Frederic here's a little repair work I just did.

Frederic(!) no, of course cheap capsules aren't 'in the same league'. That's kind of the whole point 8>]

Hi there, Tim. Beautiful work. Thanks for chiming in.

I think you hit the nail on the head with, 'you can always upgrade'. I think the best advice is just build it and learn all you can. Cheap parts can offer greater freedom to experiment, learning in the process, and putting one in a better position to make proper use of expensive parts later on.
(Which is to say, if I can't figure out how to build my own CK-12s (yeah right!), I WILL definitely buy a pair of your capsules...one day 8>]

cheers
Dave (shaggy)

From my point of view, i have compared Tim´s capsules with a chinese ck12 sourced from AMI and our  departed friend Oliver, and i can honestly say that The CT 12 sounds much better for me, much more 3D and musical on various sources.
The chinese clones are not that bad, it's true, but the capsule ( by far) is the most important part of a microphone and the price difference isn't that huge
I think it definitly worth the effort

I add that i prefer buy parts built by passionate craftsmen

Would you say, that the ck12 capsule from Tim Campell is the best sounding quality out there?
if looking pass the whole "affordability" nonsense, -just best ck12 capsule money can buy!

MiamiBoy said:

Would you say, that the ck12 capsule from Tim Campell is the best sounding quality out there?
if looking pass the whole "affordability" nonsense, -just best ck12 capsule money can buy!

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Really it is a matter of taste. All the major CK12 manufacturers capsules sound slightly different based on our particular favorite example of CK12. Read a bit and maybe listen to some sound files to see which one suits you.

I haven’t seen *too* much discussion with these capsules with regard to which may be better suited for an AKG 414 EB style mic. I assume the flatter the better when it comes to 414 voicing, but perhaps I’m wrong. Any opinions?

Forgive me, @Tim Campbell but I have yet to get a clear and concise answer from anyone regarding the availability of your capsules, and I figure it’s best coming straight from the horses mouth. Are your capsules actually available for purchase to the common DIY’er, or are you only supplying commercial operations at this point?

Yes of course. The last few years I have had such large OEM orders that it has been impossible for me to supply individuals. That should be changing in the coming year. I have decided that I would much rather run a smaller, more interesting company. My problem is twofold. I am a one man operation, doing everything myself and I will be 70 years old this coming year. My capsule should start becoming available but I can't predict in what kind of volumes that will be. I hope that helps.

Tim Campbell said:

Yes of course. The last few years I have had such large OEM orders that it has been impossible for me to supply individuals. That should be changing in the coming year. I have decided that I would much rather run a smaller, more interesting company. My problem is twofold. I am a one man operation, doing everything myself and I will be 70 years old this coming year. My capsule should start becoming available but I can't predict in what kind of volumes that will be. I hope that helps.

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I can’t imagine what the workload looks like on the manufacturing side for one person, let alone managing the client relations, email, order tracking, etc etc.
Hopefully you find time in there for some R&R now and again. Looking forward to hearing some updates in the coming year, and fingers crossed I can nab a pair from you!