a couple of points:
1) the drummer and his drumkit will have a huge influence on the final sound. you like bill ward, many would say that bonham's sound is unique and so on. if you want "to use as little artificial enhancement as possible" you will have a hard time reaching those sounds without that drummer. in early 2000 i used to work in a pretty decent studio with a good room, a very good drum, excellent microphones and a decent board. we used to have different session drummers come in, they all were very good players, still they all made a hugely different sound. this is part of the good though: use differences as a weapon to get your sound, not as a mean to not get somebody's else.
2) as for snare mic choice, i've used litteraly a thousand different mics, but i always fall back on the 57. i just like it. it's simple and punchy, and it gives me that 100-200Hz of oompf and that 4-7kHz crack that i like to slightly eq to good use. on that though you will still have the spill of everything else: oh mics, hh mic, other snare mics (bottom mic, dubled top condenser mic if you use one). if you don't gate toms and want them "modern sounding", you'll find that an eqed tom will hugely change the snare sound. thus i usually mute them - it's been done for ages, you can do it in a daw nowadays, i don't get why you "don't like it"; the first ssl with full vca automation came in the late '70, and i don't think they were the first out there; i guess your sabbath early '70s albums were already muted as needed.
3) as for placement, if you have a cardioid, just aim it's rear towards the hh. get the drummer help you out with position, go as much as you can, the more the merrier, and you'll see spill greatly diminish. if it's an hypercardioid, go for that 270 degrees, or the rear will pick up. as for different frequencies rejected, it's due to diffraction, it's a physical law that no mic shape will ever be able to overturn, so higher frequencies will always be rejected more.
4) as for different and radical drumsets, i find it cool, and i've recorded a few, just don't expect to sound like a normal drumset in the end. i've once had a jazz drummer that played his snaredrum without the snares, and used a bag of clamshells instead. he then later complained that it didn't sound like a snaredrum. go figure.
on a further note, i really don't understand those that think that back in the '60s '70s '80s and so on they wouldn't use any single piece of equipment to enhance and alter dramatically their recorded sound. i find it naive that people think that studio work is like a live concert. think of it as a movie: you tell a story, but when you look at an actor that wakes up, you buy the story but you don't really think the guy woke up in that moment. studio work since les paul in the '50s has been about building the emotion, not about recording a live session.
DrWobble said:
Since I wrote this thread, I havn,t visited this forum as I had a problem with picking up malicious malware on some posts elsewhere in the forum.
That aside, I havn't resolved the issue with spill. Having read all your replies and thought about this problem this is due to several factors.
In answer one question, I,m recording "rock" drums. I,m trying to get the sound of those early Sabbath Bill Ward recordings. On the first Album you can hear the crisp highs and also tight bass/kick drum. All Ihave got so far is a boomy kick bleeding into the snare and vise versa, which is hard to sort out with EQ.
Which is going to be hard as,I'm a crap drummer. My main instrument which I write my songs on is a guitar and sometimes a piano. I can play the bass guitar quite well and fumble along with simple keyboards/piano. But there's no way I can do everything. So I've had to have a re-think untill I can find a drummer. However, not sure if anyone here has heard of a band called Low. There's a guy on guitar ,a bassist and a lass who plays a simple drum kit and sings. She uses a floor tom instead of a bass/kick, a snare and a cymbal. I,ve found this setup easier to record., and quite effective and preferable to a drum machine.
The other issue you ve helped me identify is mic choice. I havnt got one to be honest as my only cardioid is a Sennheiser E825s. So I need to save up for a decent cardioid. I,ve looked at the EV RS 15/20 etc as well as others. I need more more cash to be honest.
Thirdly,as far as using software to "clean" the drums up, I'm averse to this, as I prefer to use as little artificial enhancement as possible. I hate most modern recordings, finding them over produced.,and lacking in emotion/sprit/oomph call it what you will.
Thanks again for all your input, really appreciate it chaps. Andy.
