Out of Control

America, which has very many excellent qualities, never ceases to amaze us in the old country.

9 year old girls getting lessons on how to fire Uzi sub-machine guns. WTF!

An exercise in total freedom, yes, an exercise in total irresponsibility, I think so.

Where does it all end?

Surely there must be thousands of deprived kids out there who don't know how to lay artillery properly.  Let's fix that puppy.

There are Arab kids who can fire rocket propelled grenades, now surely that needs addressing, US kids are losing out in the junior arms race!

Now if only US kids had suicide vest training (its their constitutional right you know) they could wipe out all their bullying classmates much more efficiently.

Is this at the end of the road we're on?  Seems crazy now, but Uzi's with 9 year old girls was crazy once.  How long before we hear " Dad why can't I have a Uzi, everyone on the block has like, got one", "Dad you are making me a total outcast"!!

"What we really need is the technology to reduce the recoil, so younger kids can fire these weapons safely", I can hear the NRA now.

Some of my best friends are Americans, if I didn't care, I'd just ignore it when they took a bad path.

There are some freedoms I'm glad I don't have, God help America.

DaveP

I find it amusing sometimes how we get portrayed by the news reports in the "old world".

I will not defend a 9 YO playing with full automatic weapons. But do not draw sweeping conclusions from a single news report. IIRC there was a far nastier story a few years back about a kid who was allowed to fire an automatic weapon at a gun show and shot himself because he couldn't handle it. They are trying to make you feel superior and better about yourself by selectively showing such stories. Apparently it is working so good for them. but that is not happening in every household over here in the "new world", and far from the top story here..

Our culture was strongly influenced by yours, but we have taken other influences since then and have drifted apart in several ways.

Our news has been dominated recently by a (white) police shooting a (black) suspect in MO a few weeks ago, and despite a lack of information, the race baiters have been spinning like crazy to stir up the populace to convict the cop in the press. (Interesting that the police force recently bought cameras for the officers to wear but hadn't implemented it yet. That technology can influence behavior and prevent a lot of he-said/he-said disputes.)

There is a list of recent news items that I found more important.

1- Ukraine invaded by Russia (and downed Malaysian passenger aircraft).

2-ISIS taking ground in Iraq and Syria, success of Kurdish peshmurgah fighting back despite lack of heavy weapons support from baghdad or US

3-Gaza/Israel fighting.(distorted reportage where news is only allowed to show images favoring Hamas POV).

4-Spread of Ebola in Africa because doctors didn't even have clean rubber gloves.

5-Libya refinery fire finally under control, but the country isn't.

6- Nigeria schoolgirls still held by boko harum

7- Unilateral withdrawal from afghanistan- Does anybody think that will end well? They can't even certify their recent election.

8- then there is the US (don't get me started).

Good day mate...

JR

John,

I agree with you that all the topics you have listed are far more important, no argument there.

You don't defend a 9 year old playing with automatic weapons, so no argument there either.

Don't worry, we don't feel superior, our country is falling apart too.

Considering all of your ancestors were British or Irish, it's just a constant surprise sometimes how much we have drifted apart.

All the other stories you mentioned, were kind of not totally surprising, even though more serious in nature.

I suppose at my age I should be more cynical and say "I've seen it all", but I was truly shocked by that story because it was almost unbelievable.

For as long as I've been alive and taking notice, The Russians have been aggressive with their neighbours, The Kurds have been ignored, Human shields have been used in the Middle East, there haven't been clean gloves in Africa, some peoples cannot get Democracy, women have been disposable and people have got fed up with being the world's policemen until it comes knocking on their own front door.

A 9 year old girl with a Uzi with her parents blessing was a new one on me, sorry about that.

You have a nice day Buddy

DaveP

DaveP said:

, The Kurds have been ignored,

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While perhaps misunderstood, not completely ignored.  After Saddam gassed them and tried to wipe out his own citizens (the Kurds occupy northern Iraq), the US enforced a no-fly zone over the kurdish region of Iraq for years to make it harder for Saddam to kill his own people.

The kurds and Turks have a long complex history and recently the PKK and Peshmurgah joined in fighting against ISIS. ISIS is making lots of strange bedfellows over there by being a common enemy to almost everybody. Reportedly Assad in Syria has given deference in fighting allowing ISIS to escape so he could attack other anti-Assad militias assuming (probably correctly) that the west would not tolerate ISIS so help him defeat them. Assad is happy to watch ISIS and anti-Assaad militias kill each other.

What a mess......Nobody seems to like ISIS but they fill the vacuum created by the west not stabilizing Syria and western Iraq. Doing nothing has consequences too. 


JR

Yes you are right about the Kurds, I was trying to keep it short.

If I remember my history correctly, the Americans wanted to push on to Berlin in 1918, but the British and French were too war weary to carry on any further.

The consequence was that their children were forced to finish the fight 20 years later, I guess both of our Dads were part of that story.

The same thing is repeating itself in Iraq, war weariness means we are now ignoring a greater danger than Saddam ever was.

The only "good" thing is, that all the disaffected crazies are seeping out of the western world to a place that is ideal for air power to take them out with minimal collateral damage.

DaveP

DaveP said:

Yes you are right about the Kurds, I was trying to keep it short.

If I remember my history correctly, the Americans wanted to push on to Berlin in 1918, but the British and French were too war weary to carry on any further.

The consequence was that their children were forced to finish the fight 20 years later, I guess both of our Dads were part of that story.

The same thing is repeating itself in Iraq, war weariness means we are now ignoring a greater danger than Saddam ever was.

The only "good" thing is, that all the disaffected crazies are seeping out of the western world to a place that is ideal for air power to take them out with minimal collateral damage.

DaveP

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Except for the fact that this wave of western jihadi have western passports so they can return to the west at will and bring the fight back to us. Tracking these potential future terrorists seem prudent. Vaporizing them when possible too.

I try not to dismiss people that I do not agree with as simply being irrational. I worry that they are indeed rational (however misguided) and dangerous.

JR

Our government is trying to summon the courage to take their passports and citizenship away, I doubt that will happen myself even though it seems perfectly reasonable to the man in the street.  To be honest, I don't think any of them want to come back as they have found their Nirvana.  Some may be sent back on a mission however.

The only ones I dismiss are the ones that cut people's heads off while they are still alive and the ones that rape and enslave women and children.
All other irrational people have my full attention.

DaveP

DaveP said:

The only ones I dismiss are the ones that cut people's heads off while they are still alive and the ones that rape and enslave women and children.
All other irrational people have my full attention.

DaveP

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They ALL have my full attention!
Best,
Bruno2000

JohnRoberts said:

1- Ukraine invaded by Russia (and downed Malaysian passenger aircraft).

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Very categorical statement. Out of control.

You be careful what you say, there may be a knock on your door :-\
DaveP

JohnRoberts said:

but that is not happening in every household over here in the "new world", and far from the top story here..

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I think the very fact that it is not a top story in the US illustrates DaveP's point perfectly.  DaveP's point was to do with accidental gun death in the USA, particularly with regard to children being the victim or the perpetrator, nothing else.  Drawing attention away from that is OT.

There's no question about how the reporting of these US shooting stories are well trodden ground over here (Europe), and everybody knows the moves well enough by now that dissection is not required in each new report.  That does not diminish the feelings of bewilderment that many here feel when a child unintentionally kills, or is killed by, a gun in the USA.

rob_gould said:

That does not diminish the feelings of bewilderment that many here feel when a child unintentionally kills, or is killed by, a gun in the USA.

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Absolutely,
Or anywhere else on plant earth for that matter

JohnRoberts said:

....The kurds and Turks have a long complex history.....

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Not as complex as it is made out to be. In fact not complex at all.

Do not mean to hijack the thread but just to point out.

Sahib,

Glad to have your contribution.

I notice you are Glasgow UK, for how long? :'(

Hi Dave,

Too long. ;D

I have been in the UK for 28 years, 25 of which have been spent in Glasgow.

rob_gould said:

JohnRoberts said:

but that is not happening in every household over here in the "new world", and far from the top story here..

Click to expand...

I think the very fact that it is not a top story in the US illustrates DaveP's point perfectly.  DaveP's point was to do with accidental gun death in the USA, particularly with regard to children being the victim or the perpetrator, nothing else.  Drawing attention away from that is OT.

There's no question about how the reporting of these US shooting stories are well trodden ground over here (Europe), and everybody knows the moves well enough by now that dissection is not required in each new report.  That does not diminish the feelings of bewilderment that many here feel when a child unintentionally kills, or is killed by, a gun in the USA.

Click to expand...

The under reported gun death story in the US (IMO) is all the black children murdered in Chicago by other black children. This is arguably more of an economic opportunity story and deterioration of modern culture (breakdown of the two parent family). This is not about gun laws, they are already illegal in Chicago. (Jan1 2014 to Aug 27 2014. 1,292 shooting victims). While not exactly the same time frame shooting in NYC through June were 448, and that number is up 13% from last year when they were still allowed to stop-and-frisk to keep guns off the street.

While we get wall to wall TV coverage of a single shooting in MO, thousands get swept under the rug.... All life is precious. Even poor kids in Chicago.

It is frustrating to hear political and affinity leaders talk about how much they are trying to help different groups while the net effect of policy is high (minority) unemployment and less opportunity to escape the poor situation.

Of course opinions vary, and maybe i'm wrong.  8)

JR

Sahib,

I meant how long will Glasgow be in the UK ;D

DaveP

Ha!  8)

I am not sure.

Competition is stiff.

But in the case of yes vote I may be heading down South.

They won't want no Brits here.

Thought this was interesting.....
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/09/debunking-four-cities-murder-myth.html
Best,
Bruno2000

sahib said:

JohnRoberts said:

....The kurds and Turks have a long complex history.....

Click to expand...

Not as complex as it is made out to be. In fact not complex at all.

Do not mean to hijack the thread but just to point out.

Click to expand...

OK, maybe it just seems complex to me...  Where i grew up in NJ we had an old Armenian home in my hometown with survivors of the Armenian genocide, that some still deny occurred. By the 50's when I was a kid walking past every day, on my way to school they were quite old.

I follow Turkey from a distance as they petition to join the EU, and I appreciated their secular government, while they seem to be moving a little less secular these days.

I was a little disappointed that they didn't allow us to bring armor into iraq from the North that would have made the situation on the ground there a lot more stable. But they are a free country and free to make such decisions in their own interest.

It seems there was an issue between turkey and Kurds in northern Iraq about separatists hiding across the border in Kurdistan. 

They seem to be a supporter of Hamas, or at least are against Israel, but i understand the anger about when their boat ran the blockade and was boarded. It is generally not a good idea to mess with the Israeli military.

Sorry I do not pretend to be an expert about Turkey.. I just know what i see and read over the decades.

JR