Help with SSL comp clone

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zqone537

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
338
Hey guys,

Looking for some help with this DIY SSL comp I have. I didn't build it. Not really impressed with the sound.
Can you guys have a look at the guts in this thing for me. What can I do to make this better. I am willing to
do some unsoldering, replacing resistors, caps, chips, etc. I am even willing to pay someone some bucks (20-30)
to help me compile a BOM list and give me a lil guidance. First things first. Let me know whats what with
this clone. 
Here's a link to the pics: https://imageshack.com/a/xhPz/1
Thanks in advance for all the help.
Zq
 
here is the bom (no need to pay anyone ;)): https://pcbgrinder.com/download/GssL/GssL_BOM.pdf
where did you buy the compressor? can you tell us the exact issue and what parts you want to replace and why? does it compress? is there no sound?
btw. we have an official help thread for this: http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=47.0
 
Hey Weiss

No it works fine. The Vu meter is not that great. It just doesn't sound very good that's all. I was just hoping to get some help upgrading it. I didn't this so not sure. I am not sure on any details about the parts, year, etc.  I'm not sure if it was built on the GSSL specs. This is why I gave such detailed pics.
thanks
 
now i understand.. well it seems a but difficult to find errors, if we don't know which project it is based on
 
I got you Weiss. Thanks for the help. Ima have a look on the SSL link you gave me. See if I can maybe track down what this is SSL clone is based on.
Zq
 
From the looks of things, it's an older GSSL build, which someone has converted to solve the typical hum issue by using off-board rectification, smoothing and regulation. Then it looks as if they've added a sidechain filter board. This is/was a common mod  to address things like bass guitars and kick drums etc. over-compressing, as a result of the original GSSL's 'summed-mono' sidechain.

"Doesn't sound very good" doesn't tell me anything, so I can't help you without a rather more accurate description of WHAT you don't like, and why.

There should be no reason that the unit doesn't sound fine and behave pretty much as an SSL 384 when used on a mono source that I can think of... and "replacing resistors, caps chips etc" won't change the sound in any way which I consider to be particularly significant, anywhere NEAR as much as identifying what you don't like and addressing that/those particular issue(s).

'the Vu meter is not that great'
It doesn't HAVE a VU meter. It has a gain reduction meter. -It looks like one of the cheaper Sifams... I've never had a problem with those. -Do you WANT a VU meter? and if so, what do you want it to meter? -Signal level? Gain reduction? -Both?
 
To add a little more on the metering issue; I've built a couple of units with VU meters.

This is a VU meter:
vu.png


This is NOT a VU meter:
PPM4.jpg


Nor are these:
thumbnail_0412719337134bd02b1194089.jpg
Voltmeter.jpg


My most recent one uses VU meters:

539B921E-C131-4180-BDB0-46318EB9F292_zpsfgtmhxtl.jpg


I've built others using a single VU meter. Then it becomes an issue of WHAT you want the meter(s) to display. -You haven't said much, just that you don't like what you have at the moment. -It's extremely unlikely that there's anything wrong with the meter circuitry, so you'd have to give us a clue as to what aspect of the metering that you aren't satisfied with. -Would you rather have a meter that displays similarly to an 1176/LA4/Fairchild where it rests at 0VU and works its way "downward"? -Would you rather meter signal level? Should it be peak-reading? RMS? -Switchable? Should it be the sum of the left an right signals , or switchable left-right, or "greater-of"?

Without a description of what you don't like, neither I nor anyone else can offer any kind of insights or suggestions beyond random guessing.

The unit pictured above has two VU meters which can be switched three ways to display input level, gain reduction or output level. Three LEDs inset into the meter scales indicate input, output or 'VCA' (for gain reduction at the VCA) and  there's also an RMS/Peak switch which operates in input and output modes, together with a fourth LED nestled in the meter scales, which shows whether the meter is displaying RMS or peak level. (Peak display mode is disabled in 'VCA' position, and the button and meter LEDs are inhibited in this mode).

A previous one which I built some years ago looks like this:

IMG_7205.jpg


This uses only a single meter, and simply switches between gain reduction and a mono sum of the stereo output (-6dB, to keep things on-scale).

IMG_7207.jpg


Now.... on the subject of NON-VU-style GR metering, I've built and worked on units which have used many types of milliammeter. Here's a few I compared side-by-side:

Front:
IMG_7124.jpg

Rear:
IMG_7125.jpg


The left one is a GE, the other three are Sifam. The second from the left is a PPM14, and I think may be what you have... the two on the right are right-reading and left-reading Director models. These are the ones which SSL always used to use until they went out of production... then they switched to the less-expensive PPM14 (note the rather smaller motor housing). Both work well enough. -I've also used the 'Nissei' style meters which work adequately, although they're slightly nonlinear in their deflection response; but I seem to be the only person who ever mentions this, and even I don't have a significant issue with it.

So the world is your oyster; you can do whatever you dream, but you have to say what you want to do.
 
ST you are a mountain of info! Thank you for the kind detailed response. And by the way test ran the SSL and it sounds really good. It was 2 yrs ago when I tryed it. I've learned so much more about compression since then! Plus I have updated my monitoring system so now I can actually hear what's going on with my system. There's about a 1.5db difference between the Left and Right channels. Otherwise she sounds great. She  blows away Waves, Glue, and NI sold bus!!!  It's like the difference between cardboard and swede! ha ha....The "comp GR" meter I can live wit.  (Thanks for the clarification)
Now...
I wanted to ask you about the Cavendish  dash mod you did. Where did you get those IDE cables attached to the VCAs? They are sexxy! ha ha. I think I wanna mod this SSL I have wit the Cavendish. I always had a soft spot for APIs sound. Not exactly a 2500 but who cares! Also need to add the Turbo board mod for sure to get the M/S compression right.  You think it's possible to replace the VCAs with the ones you have on your board as well? Either way I'm sure these 2 mods will get the vibe going where I want it.
Peace
Zq
 
Well, if you have a gain difference between the two channels, the Cavendish adds the ability to trim them to whatever accuracy you need. (I measure within 0.01dB difference between the two on the Cavendish prototype!).

The Turbo isn't actually M/S as such... It's "Greater-Of" dominance... and it's precisely how SSL did it in the original. -If you read Jakob's original notes from the GSSL page on Gyraf, you'll see that he 'modified' the sidechain to a simple audio sum. -the Turbo mod effectively 'undoes' that, and reinstates the SSL sidechain behaviour.

The VCAs... well, I've tried a few, and I generally go with the selected 218a VCAs, they really are good enough. I habitually socket them, so I can experiment, but I tend to end up going back to 2181A as a 'best' choice. Noise and THD are excellent... thought if you don't have a sensitive THD measurement system, 2180A is a great choice, though you may have to look at the associated resistors/trim pots to see if any changes are necessary.
 
It's hard to make this compressor sound bad.  It really works nicely.  One thing that makes a difference (not good vs bad, more like good vs much better) is changing the caps in the audio path (22uF on input and going to VCA and 100uF on outputs to Elna silmics or your favorite audio caps).  Also, some people don't like to bypass the electros with films like yours has, so that might be another thing to try.

For your gain mismatch,  you could take care of this in the stock unit by swapping the 27K resistors (going to the audio path VCA inputs) for 50K trimpots (with wiper tied to one side like a rheostat). Preset them to around 27K before you put them in, then run a signal in and adjust for unity gain.  Take a look at the SB4000 assembly guide for this and other calibration procedures (some will not apply to yours, but the main circuit is the same).

The API I/O should sound pretty sweet, I've been wanting to try that as well.

good luck. 

Keith, I had an idea about the cav that I wanted to share with you, but your inbox is full..
 
Good day all!
Thanks for all the good ideas. But first I have a even bigger issue. Having some noise issues with the clone. And its more then just hum. I searched the GSSL thread for some ideas. Thought it might be a ground issue. So I attached a cable to my transformer ground. Then I when I attach a cable to my  GR meter, and a cable to any input or output XLR ground. I connect all 3 together and  the noise decreases. Is this helpful to know? Does this mean it's not a grounding issue? Any advise on where to go next would be greatly appreciated.
Check the pics below of before and after to see. what I mean.
Peace
Zq
 

Attachments

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> swapping the 27K resistors ... for 50K trimpots

I would assume the right value is super-close to 27K. (And in case of doubt, I would check ALL other points first......)

And that it is unlikely you ever want to be near zero Ohms (infinite attenuation).

2% resistors should already give 0.2dB matching. If not, I'd look into the sidechain signal. The VCA control voltage is SUPER sensitive.

If sure the 27K must be trimmed, I'd go 22K fixed in series with 10K variable. That gives +/-1.7dB trim, with easy sub-dB resolution.
 
Hi ! Sorry to disturb but anyone having the fpd front and back files for the Gssl project by pcbgrinder ?

 

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