Any members from Argentina know more about this.

Agustín Briolini, 21, guitarist and leader singer of the Krebs, received a massive electrical shock to the head as the band performed at the Theatre of the Sun in the central Argentinian city of Villa Carlos Paz. Briolini was apparently moving toward the microphone during the first song of their set when he was electrocuted.

Officials are still investigating what went wrong, but initial reports cited faulty wiring on a microphone as the cause of the electric shock.

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This accident occurred a couple days ago.

It is unlikely that a microphone could be mis-wired in such a way to electrocute somebody. More likely that electrical fault came from his guitar amp and the microphone provided the ground path (mic cases are often grounded). Another somewhat less likely possibility is the power that the console was plugged into had a hot voltage on ground and the guitar amp provided the return path to neutral/ground.

Anyone heard a more likely explanation than microphone wiring?

JR

My friends band had a similar instance where their guitar play who also sings got shocked while abroad and performing on stage. He had his guitar in hand and when he stepped to the mic, shock and stayed connected.  Had to be rushed to the hospital but turned out o.k. music is dangerous when the wiring is faulty.

I advocate using power strips with built-in GFCI safety devices, for back line (guitar amps and such) when performing live.

There is no excuse for this.

JR

PS: An unrelated tangent to this, it is possible to cap couple the ground inside a guitar to effectively current limit any shock hazard via that path to below lethal level, while still keeping hum under control. The most common fault is guitar amps with funny mains connections, but I have heard of musicians killed by bad house wiring using properly wired gear.

Weird story.
Like 3-5 years ago i heard of another argentinian band called Rescate.
His guitar player got an electrical shock, he was hospitalized for a few days.

I didn't hear anything on that, I will look for it. It's true that here we use really bad wiring in general, but when I was working on stage we made our own wiring from a safe point, our own ground point, panel, etc. A separate installation when ever was possible, always when outside or when working with the mixer far away from the stage. Also when playing with my own build tube amp (and other amps as well, but is the one I mostly used) tested the outlets if I don't know the place I'm going to play, to be sure there isn't a live earth or something miss wired.

As stated on one of the NEWS I find about it in a fast search after Agustín touching the mic and getting the shock, already laying in the floor a guy tried to help him and he felt the shock as well, I guess Agustín already wasn't touching the mic anymore, and if that's true the only possibility is that something was wrong on the amp. I don't see anything talking about the amp here. If a single RC parallel connection is done from the pin1 of the XLR to the chassis this could be avoided so you should look if your safety thing about the high current bridge rectifier is fine, I don't know. It wouldn't be the cause of the accident but if one of the chassis gets high, that failure point could help.

I've heard a story long time ago about two guitar players in a big concert outside in a rainy day, playing back to back got a big shock when their heads touched, but that's of course one of the amps failure, the only thing to determine is which. Still in any case the mains protection should act and this didn't happened. There are for sure 2 points of failure here, one chance is the mains protection and a live chassis, the other is a live chassis and a neutral chassis which would be really difficult to believe, two failures like this meeting together. In the case of two old guitar amps where the chassis is connected to one of the mains via a cap to act as ground from the neutral, or an old enough installation which didn't have proper protection would be more possible in the old case I'm mentioning, but in this case, a few days ago, both cases are hard to believe, it's clear something went wrong. The place has proper habilitation and there is no reason for the mains protection going wrong if such a thing is true, but having the habilitation doesn't mean it wasn't a fake one, this s**t happen here in Argentina and electrical safety isn't as developed as gas safety, for example. The company installing electricity says you need to have a ground connection at the input of your home, but it doesn't need to get into your home at all. Gas companies in the other hand probe the sealing of your gas installation way before giving you the gas. Without mention you can always make some christmas present to an agent so he signs the habilitation.

It's a shame this to be happening with all the stuff around available to prevent this, a proper protection costs about $100 and can save a life. I moved recently and the apartment I rent didn't have one, I paid less than $35 for a protection for this small place.

I don't see power strips with built-in GFCI as a real option here right now, we are far away on this matter, but I recon that shouldn't be like that, you can't play with life for a few bux.

JS

joaquins said:

I didn't hear anything on that, I will look for it. It's true that here we use really bad wiring in general, but when I was working on stage we made our own wiring from a safe point, our own ground point, panel, etc. A separate installation when ever was possible, always when outside or when working with the mixer far away from the stage. Also when playing with my own build tube amp (and other amps as well, but is the one I mostly used) tested the outlets if I don't know the place I'm going to play, to be sure there isn't a live earth or something miss wired.

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The cheap outlet testers can not always detect a hot ground if the ground is boot-leged from the neutral and hot and neutral is swapped.  In the US many DIY electricians will convert two wire wiring to 3 conductor outlets by tying ground and neutral together. This can be dangerous if the hot and neutral is swapped, and will not indicate when measuring the outlet directly.

The only way to check out outlet reliably with a VOM is to run a separate ground lead back to the electrical service panel.  Another way is with a Non-contact voltage tester, that will detect voltage without a ground wire.

I have done some crude non-contact voltage readings using a sensitive digital VOM and holding the ground lead in one hand while probing the outlet with the tother lead. Voltages measured this way are not accurate, but you can generally tell the hot lead from the neutral lead.

As stated on one of the NEWS I find about it in a fast search after Agustín touching the mic and getting the shock, already laying in the floor a guy tried to help him and he felt the shock as well, I guess Agustín already wasn't touching the mic anymore, and if that's true the only possibility is that something was wrong on the amp. I don't see anything talking about the amp here. If a single RC parallel connection is done from the pin1 of the XLR to the chassis this could be avoided so you should look if your safety thing about the high current bridge rectifier is fine, I don't know. It wouldn't be the cause of the accident but if one of the chassis gets high, that failure point could help.

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Pin one needs to return phantom power current so will be low impedance to PS ground. The mic needs to be grounded while the body of the mic could be cap coupled just like the guitar ground I mentioned before. While the mic dels with lower impedances so probably wants a lower impedance shield.

I've heard a story long time ago about two guitar players in a big concert outside in a rainy day, playing back to back got a big shock when their heads touched, but that's of course one of the amps failure,

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or a mains wiring fault. as I already posted I am aware of a guitar player dying when holding two guitars that were attached to two perfectly legal amps, where one amp was plugged into a hot bootleg ground outlet. He was killed by the good safety ground plugged into a bad outlet. WHile amp faults are pretty common too (search "stinger caps"). 

the only thing to determine is which. Still in any case the mains protection should act and this didn't happened. There are for sure 2 points of failure here, one chance is the mains protection and a live chassis, the other is a live chassis and a neutral chassis which would be really difficult to believe, two failures like this meeting together.

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Only one fault is necessary then a good safety ground completes the hazardous path.

In the case of two old guitar amps where the chassis is connected to one of the mains via a cap to act as ground from the neutral, or an old enough installation which didn't have proper protection would be more possible in the old case I'm mentioning, but in this case, a few days ago, both cases are hard to believe, it's clear something went wrong. The place has proper habilitation and there is no reason for the mains protection going wrong if such a thing is true, but having the habilitation doesn't mean it wasn't a fake one, this s**t happen here in Argentina and electrical safety isn't as developed as gas safety, for example. The company installing electricity says you need to have a ground connection at the input of your home, but it doesn't need to get into your home at all. Gas companies in the other hand probe the sealing of your gas installation way before giving you the gas. Without mention you can always make some christmas present to an agent so he signs the habilitation.

It's a shame this to be happening with all the stuff around available to prevent this, a proper protection costs about $100 and can save a life. I moved recently and the apartment I rent didn't have one, I paid less than $35 for a protection for this small place.

I don't see power strips with built-in GFCI as a real option here right now, we are far away on this matter, but I recon that shouldn't be like that, you can't play with life for a few bux.

JS

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Good luck Death is forever,....

JR

What happened to your quotation?

I'm trying to find some details about the technical expertise but still nothing, if something comes out I'll let you know.

JS

joaquins said:

What happened to your quotation?

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My bad I used the wrong kind of left bracket in the HTML  (fixed it)

I'm trying to find some details about the technical expertise but still nothing, if something comes out I'll let you know.

JS

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There is a guy on a power safety forum asking... and we have some members from Argentina so I asked his question here.

Be safe.

JR

I usually do what you stated with a DMM and my hand, I never used cheap outlet testers, I don't even know how one it's made, I have the general idea of what it is but that's it. I have a little cheap tester than used to hit the road with me when working or playing, I hardly work on live performance any more and even less playing.

Ok, about the fault, if you have only one live chassis and a proper ground one there is still the mains protection (I think it's GFCI  you mentioned before but for the complete installation, not a single power strip, which is mandatory here to get the habilitation), so you get shocked but you don't die, unless the protection isn't in place or broken. On the other scenario you have one chassis live and one chassis neutral, in which case you always end up death, both cases are two faults for proper grounding, that's why I'm saying there are need two faults to get frying meat. So in any case puppet touching live 1st fault, and puppet touching neutral 2nd fault or puppet touching earth and GFCI missing-not working 2nd fault. I don't see how a single fault can do it.

What I'm saying about pin one isn't to avoid a low impedance but have not so beefy connection so it fails in a case like this.

Regards.

This made the NYC Daily News and the UK Mirror. Odd to have such coverage of a musician in a faraway land with no Billboard/PopsTop hits.

But if it bleeds it leads. No bleeding today? Well, electrocution is next best.

"...electrocuted by faulty wiring in his microphone."

> something was wrong on the amp.

It 'has' to be the mike, right? He was playing the guitar just fine, he died when he touched the mike, the mike is the killer.

(The mike, or the steam pipe, or the dirt... but the mike was handier.)

Venue is given as Teatro del Sol, Carlos Paz, Argentina. This "appears" to be a 1960s building, possibly designed as a theater, and perhaps properly maintained and wired (but you never know). (In a Google Street View image from May 2014 there is a very funky-looking main power wire on a boom over the street-- but faults in the main entrance wire usually cause problems long before some guy steps to the mike.)

Wikipedia Spanish:

Agustín Briolini falleció la noche del domingo 23 de noviembre de 2014, cuando efectuaba una prueba de sonido junto a su banda de rock para presentar su primer CD en un teatro de la ciudad cordobesa de Villa Carlos Paz. Murió electrocutado al tocar el micrófono mientras realizaba la prueba de sonido en la Sala 1 del Teatro del Sol de esa localidad ubicada a 36 kilómetros de la capital provincial. Apenas tocó el elemento eléctrico cayó desplomado sobre el escenario, donde fue atendido por personal médico que llegó hasta el lugar.

El fiscal de instrucción que interviene en el caso, Carlos Masucci, ordenó que se realicen una serie de pericias técnicas en la sala del Teatro del Sol, que suele ser muy utilizado durante la temporada turística, con el fin de determinar los motivos que produjeron la falla eléctrica.

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Stupid mechanical translation:

Briolini Augustine died Sunday night, November 23, 2014 , while conducting a sound check with his rock band to present his first CD in a theater of Cordoba city of Villa Carlos Paz . I was electrocuted by touching the microphone while doing the soundcheck in Room 1 Teatro del Sol in this town located 36 kilometers from the provincial capital. He barely touched the electric element he fell on stage, where he was treated by medical personnel who came to the place.

The prosecutor instructional involved in the case, Carlos Masucci, ordered a series of technical expertise in the Teatro del Sol, which is usually very used during the tourist season, in order to determine why they produced is made the power failure.[/i]

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A similar accident happened to a musician I know, in the 80's. He didn't die, but his spine was crushed by the muscular tetanization.
The fault was due to a c-clip that had gone loose in a cable drum and shorted Live with Earth on one of the sockets. The guy who installed the backline noticed there was something that tripped the circuit breaker when the drum was connected, so he used the magic earth-lift adapter, turning a perfectly innocent Twin Reverb in an electric chair.
Since that day, the anti death-penalty orgs have banned the Fender Telecaster and Shure SM58. 

PRR said:

This made the NYC Daily News and the UK Mirror. Odd to have such coverage of a musician in a faraway land with no Billboard/PopsTop hits.

But if it bleeds it leads. No bleeding today? Well, electrocution is next best.

"...electrocuted by faulty wiring in his microphone."

> something was wrong on the amp.

It 'has' to be the mike, right? He was playing the guitar just fine, he died when he touched the mike, the mike is the killer.

(The mike, or the steam pipe, or the dirt... but the mike was handier.)

...
Stupid mechanical translation:
...

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It really call my attention I got it from JR, but that's how NEWS travel... About the mic, kill the messenger. I'm not saying there is no way to get a live mic chassis, but someone else would notice that too, the sound guy at the mixer, the bass man who had another mic, etc. But here we all know what we are talking about, you can't ask a reporter to tell that's true, what is calling my attention now is that I can't find anything about the actual people who knows and it's investigating this, I haven't seen the amp mentioned anywhere which would be my first guess, or anything related at all.

If you want a better translation I could do it but I can tell you it doesn't worth it.

abbey road d enfer said:

A similar accident happened to a musician I know, in the 80's. He didn't die, but his spine was crushed by the muscular tetanization.
The fault was due to a c-clip that had gone loose in a cable drum and shorted Live with Earth on one of the sockets. The guy who installed the backline noticed there was something that tripped the circuit breaker when the drum was connected, so he used the magic earth-lift adapter, turning a perfectly innocent Twin Reverb in an electric chair.
Since that day, the anti death-penalty orgs have banned the Fender Telecaster and Shure SM58. 

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Who in their right mind would do that (the earth live adapter), I could see why to do so when it's getting noisy but to solve a circuit barker trip? seriously? you already know there is some live leakage somewhere, attempt of murder means nothing.

I really I can't understand how such things happens, you can get your fridge to give you a small shock but you will be protected if you have your house right, but in a professional environment...

JS

joaquins said:

Who in their right mind would do that (the earth live adapter), I could see why to do so when it's getting noisy but to solve a circuit barker trip? seriously? you already know there is some live leakage somewhere, attempt of murder means nothing.

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Potheads...

abbey road d enfer said:

joaquins said:

Who in their right mind would do that (the earth live adapter), I could see why to do so when it's getting noisy but to solve a circuit barker trip? seriously? you already know there is some live leakage somewhere, attempt of murder means nothing.

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Potheads...

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May professionals who should know better are too blase about the risk of shock hazards. High profile deaths are pretty rare but worth paying attention to for instructional purposes.

I recall researching an account of people electrocuted in US, many were technicians, engineers, and electrical professionals all of whom should know better that to poke the bare (wire).

JR

some guitar players put a cap inside their guitars to avoid a shock from a tube failure (grid to plate shortcut) I have never seen a failure like that.

I have heard of a couple of accidents here in chile too. pa system conected to a different ground level than the guitar amp usually produce some problems.

12afael said:

some guitar players put a cap inside their guitars to avoid a shock from a tube failure (grid to plate shortcut) I have never seen a failure like that.

I have heard of a couple of accidents here in chile too. pa system conected to a different ground level than the guitar amp usually produce some problems.

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Yes, a capacitor in series with the guitar ground may have prevented this death.  The visible cause was touching the mic, but that mic may have actually been at 0V.  Either way, if the mic was energized or the guitar amp ground, isolating the player from the guitar amp ground with a cap could have prevented serious injury.

JR

JohnRoberts said:

12afael said:

some guitar players put a cap inside their guitars to avoid a shock from a tube failure (grid to plate shortcut) I have never seen a failure like that.

I have heard of a couple of accidents here in chile too. pa system conected to a different ground level than the guitar amp usually produce some problems.

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Yes, a capacitor in series with the guitar ground may have prevented this death.  The visible cause was touching the mic, but that mic may have actually been at 0V.  Either way, if the mic was energized or the guitar amp ground, isolating the player from the guitar amp ground with a cap could have prevented serious injury.

JR

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A cap should be small enough to limit the AC current, how much current we would allow? 20mA so you don't have dangerous contractions maybe. 20mA 220V -> Xc=11000Ω=1/wC w=314 ->C=0.3µF. I'm using 220V 50Hz as the local network. I'm not sure an impedance of 5500Ω would be a nice thing at the frequency most noises are, it could save lives but in cases there are other problems around, and still the amp chassis will be still potentially deathly, if you are holding something or bare feet on the ground. There is no better place to put the cap than between the chassis and the jack because between the power input earth and the chassis would be a major fault since a short between the live and chassis would not blow the fuse or even the mains protection, since most of them blow at 25mA and you will be having a leakage of 20mA. Still the noise problem remains, maybe a PTC fuse could be the best option but I never seen values low enough and I don't know if they are fast enough, fast blow 10mA fuse could be a good thing also, still 1kΩ or so but much lower at the low freq where most noises are in the usual environments.

JS

joaquins said:

A cap should be small enough to limit the AC current, how much current we would allow? 20mA so you don't have dangerous contractions maybe. 20mA 220V -> Xc=11000Ω=1/wC w=314 ->C=0.3µF. I'm using 220V 50Hz as the local network. I'm not sure an impedance of 5500Ω would be a nice thing at the frequency most noises are, it could save lives but in cases there are other problems around, and still the amp chassis will be still potentially deathly, if you are holding something or bare feet on the ground. There is no better place to put the cap than between the chassis and the jack because between the power input earth and the chassis would be a major fault since a short between the live and chassis would not blow the fuse or even the mains protection, since most of them blow at 25mA and you will be having a leakage of 20mA. Still the noise problem remains, maybe a PTC fuse could be the best option but I never seen values low enough and I don't know if they are fast enough, fast blow 10mA fuse could be a good thing also, still 1kΩ or so but much lower at the low freq where most noises are in the usual environments.

JS

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It has been a few years since I last researched this but the science for how much current is deadly is not very precise, but yes in the mA range... I will defer to the many WWW sources on the subject.

220V # 50Hz  is harder than 115 @ 60Hz to keep current low and noise down but yes the reactive impedance of the cap at mains frequency.

I know this approach works well enough to keep guitars quiet, because people have done it, I do not know if it works inside mics but probably does.

JR

PS: There was a long thread with pretty rigorous inspection over on geekslutz probably 5-10 years ago and it has come up again several times over the years on other forums.

everybody is cordless nowadays so they can work the crowd,

or maybe the guy was barefoot and grabbed the mic stand?

Ronnie Van Zandt use to perform barefoot, but he was a tough guy,

use to stand on the street corner in a bad part of Florida and flip people off just to get into a fight,  wtf, over?

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