Sound Sample: Ela M251 (non E) vs. REAS P250

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micaddict

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Jan 3, 2012
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nisvobb0zPA

Before I disclose more info, I'd like to hear comments/opinions.  :)


Henk


Edited to add the WAV files.

96 kHz - 24 bits
http://www.reas-audio.com/Demo96-24/ELA_M251.wav
http://www.reas-audio.com/Demo96-24/REAS_P250.wav

48 kHz - 16 bits
http://www.reas-audio.com/Demo48-16/ELA_M251.wav
http://www.reas-audio.com/Demo48-16/REAS_P250.wav
 
micaddict said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nisvobb0zPA

Before I disclose more info, I'd like to hear comments/opinions.  :)



Henk

Wow, pretty close.  I'm listening only on headphones, but to me the Tele has a bit more extended top, and the other REAS has a more extended bottom.  Both sound nice and I'm sure there's a huge price difference.

Hey Henk, how about changing the name of the thread to reflect a collection of sound samples?
 
Hey Henk, how about changing the name of the thread to reflect a collection of sound samples?

For the sake of surveyability, I'd prefer separate threads.

Lots of 'em!  :D

Oh, and I do like your enthusiasm, Ben.

It's two o'clock in the morning here, but I'll listen to yours, tomorrow.  :p



Henk
 
...only listened on my Roland mini-monitors, but that DIY mic clearly holds it's own...when do we get to know what it's made of?...very respectable comparison on that particular singer's vocals...
 
I can't hear a difference I stink!!!!!!

Maybe just a bit more of the room sound in the DIY version.
 
They found extremely similar to me. The differences I thought I heard were probably caused by the solod mic name being on the screen, and biasing my perception.

I'd be curious to know more.
 
Thanks for chiming in guys (and gals?).

For some reason or other, weekends are always very quiet on this forum. Do you guys post from work and then get busy with the family during the weekends?

Anyway, as soon as I get a couple more serious impressions, I'll lift off a part of the veil.  ;D
 
Hi Micaddict, hi guys!

First, you need to have youtube in full HD, all other video formats bring highly compressed audio.

I listened through my JBL LSR studio monitors and AKG studio headphones, and I cannot tell a difference.
I WANT to hear a difference, but I constantly feel I must imagine when I think I hear one.
They are so alike up to the point that I started to question the authenticity of the video..

That said, I have one of Ruud's simpler mic designs, and I can only say that they sound absolutely great.
No tube, no transformer, and still they give my Neumann and Manley a tough match.
My DIY C12 and 251 may have a bit more presence, but hey, this one runs on phantom power!

The P250 I have never seen/tried, but the name suggests it is built to imitate the ELA M sound.
Judging from this "comparison" (without any info whatsoever), it seems it does a respectable job.
Very interesting video, I would like to hear the nasty details!  ;D

Thx 4 posting!

//Michael



 
...Ruud's mic sounds very good!...and knowing his appreciation of cost-effective options for building/modding, I suspect the will be some pleasant surprises by way of the list of components used in this particular build (like a Chinese sourced C12 maybe?)...
...looking forward to the details...
 
OK, for starters, let me say that I don't get paid by Ruud to do this. This was entirely my idea. I do like the guy, though, both for his personality and for his work. So I might be just a little biased.

As a matter of fact or ironically, I'm normally much more of a tube and tranny kinda guy than he is. The REAS P250 doesn't have a tube, nor does it have a transformer. "But", as you all can hear, it does sound pretty killer. And very close to a ten thousand (+) dollar vintage tube mic. And as a bonus, a solid state mic like this can (!) have noise and distortion figures that tube mics can't touch. And there's no hefty PSU, no tubes going bad etc.

BTW, the REAS has an extra trick up its sleeve: a ten position switch to very subtly manipulate the HF.  :)

A big part of Ruud's succes, I would say, is the fact that for him factory tolerances are not nearly tight enough. So he tests and selects the components to his own, higher standards.
 
Thanks for the background info!

Listening to the high resolution .wav-files, I can only say that this IS impressive..
I would love to try the P250 myself in a real recording situation!

Maybe it is time we start looking at alternative mic designs here in the forum too, not just only the vintage usual suspects?
For instance, modern implementations of mics with tubes but without a transformer, and also mics like this one - without tube or transformer and so forth. I would definitely build them!  :D

A good and simple design from the joint forces of our mic design specialists here, and some high quality PCB's from our forum frieds who make the ones we all use today, and we would have more fun and more mics to choose from.

These convincing examples from Ruud (and my own experience), at leas in my view, show that it can be well worth the effort.

Respect to Ruud for a great design, and thanks Micaddict for the files!

//Michael

 
OK.  I have been very vocal (sorry!) against sound samples in another thread so I thought I should drop in and listen.

The ELAM is broken, unquestionably.  It sounds dreadful.  I've listened on headphones and just now I compared again in my mastering room.  Forget the price tag for a minute and listen.

The REA250 sounds better, not good but better.  The clips also seems slightly louder to me but I don't have time to load into a DAW and level match.

I'm not trolling, look at my post history and you'll see it's not my style.

 
ruairioflaherty said:
OK.  I have been very vocal (sorry!) against sound samples in another thread so I thought I should drop in and listen.

I fail to see the logic there.



The ELAM is broken, unquestionably.  It sounds dreadful.  I've listened on headphones and just now I compared again in my mastering room.  Forget the price tag for a minute and listen.

The REA250 sounds better, not good but better.  The clips also seems slightly louder to me but I don't have time to load into a DAW and level match.

I'm not trolling, look at my post history and you'll see it's not my style.

Well, I guess that makes his achievement extra special; matching a broken Ela M251.  :eek:
 
I'm not sure if I should even bother to say this, but Paul Pouwer has a studio in Amsterdam. And this ain't no obscure, "project", wannabe, little studio. Not that those all suck BTW.
To give an idea, here's the gear list:

http://www.powersoundstudio.com/gear-list/

Just take a look at the tube mics alone. They're all there: C12, U47, U48, M49, KM54 (x2), U67 (x4), Schoeps M221b (x5) and then some ...
And he actually has two Ela M251s; a non-E and an E. The non-E is the (slightly) better microphone, so that one was used for the shootout. But perhaps the 251E is broken, too?

Despite his incredible microphone collection, Paul was so impressed with the REAS, he wouldn't give it back and bought it on the spot. He says the thing is amazing.
He hasn't updated his gear list since BTW.

Oh, and here are a couple of folks who trust Paul's ears:
(Scroll to or click on "clients")

http://www.powersoundstudio.com/#top

OK, Phil Collins' own ears are shot, so he could trust anyone.
And Michael Jackson may not have lived long enough to witness Paul's possible hearing deterioration.
But that all seems a little farfetched ...
 
I don't remember dissing Paul in my post?  I'm sure he's a great guy with some nice mics who has worked with some people.  I'm also a great guy with some great gear who has worked with some people. Where does that leave us?

I thought the point was to listen and comment or are these sound sample threads only for positive comments?  I listened to both clips at hi res on headphones and separately in my mastering room.  The ELAM sounds very poor.  The REAS a little better.  That's my opinion based on 20 years of doing this for a living.

 
ruairioflaherty said:
I don't remember dissing Paul in my post?  I'm sure he's a great guy with some nice mics who has worked with some people.  I'm also a great guy with some great gear who has worked with some people. Where does that leave us?

Well, let's assume for a moment that you are both "in the same league". Then the big difference of course is that he knows that particular Ela M251 intimately. So saying "it is broken"and "it sounds dreadful" does sort of diss the man, no?

Also, in the other thread, you wrote this:
There is nothing to replace hands on experience with a given part of piece of gear, nothing.  I'll challenge you to find me anyone who's been in the design/recording/mixing/mastering game for a significant amount of time that believes otherwise.  There's no need to list all of the ways in which these types of tests are flawed.

Still, you decide to participate in such a thread and then suddenly you do have a strong opinion based on a sample.



I thought the point was to listen and comment or are these sound sample threads only for positive comments?

Certainly not. All comments are welcome. But your comment is the total opposite of all others, which seems strange considering the fact you don't even believe in internet tests. So it would seem you are trying to achieve something else here.
 

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