u87 capsule options

I would like to build a pair of u87 clones, but I am really stuck for choice on which capsule to buy for this build.

It seems that there is such a broad variety of u87 capsule options, which vary in price to a great degree too, which makes it quite difficult in making a choice. I've read that the more expensive options do not sound so great, but also don't want to get something cheap which sounds bad - I would be interested to hear from anyone who has heard any and recommends a capsule that is true to the original for this project  - any insight would be much appreciated! 

Contact Neumann and get a real one?  Or read the forums and take a shot.

I built a lot of Poctop's U87's, and i have consistently good results with the Microphone-parts K87. You cannot beat it for the price.

dacapitan said:

I would like to build a pair of u87 clones, but I am really stuck for choice on which capsule to buy for this build.

It seems that there is such a broad variety of u87 capsule options, which vary in price to a great degree too, which makes it quite difficult in making a choice. I've read that the more expensive options do not sound so great, but also don't want to get something cheap which sounds bad - I would be interested to hear from anyone who has heard any and recommends a capsule that is true to the original for this project  - any insight would be much appreciated! 

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fsalter said:

I built a lot of Poctop's U87's, and i have consistently good results with the Microphone-parts K87. You cannot beat it for the price.

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Thank you for the insight fsalter, appreciate it!

Pip said:

Contact Neumann and get a real one?  Or read the forums and take a shot.

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Hi Pip - I understand that it is easy to perceive my post as being lazy and looking for an easy answer but, I would like to think that this is not the case.

I was just interested in hearing peoples views who have experience with and have heard the different capsules. And what their subjective and hopefully objective view on it was - my goal being getting a capsule that is truest to the original but not the hefty price tag of an original (I am broke and building a pair)

I have spent the past few months reading up on what I can find about the u87 capsule and I found that, compared to the u47 capsule, it seemed to be a bit harder to draw a distinction as to which was the best capsule to go for and which truest to the original, due to the conflicting views of people and the great difference in prices - With the u47 capsule, for me, it was rather easy to draw the line at,  Thiersch blue line or Beezneez because of the feedback from others and having heard samples of them side by side with the original. Personally I ended up going with Thiersch.

With the 87 capsule, I have pretty much narrowed it down to Tskguy HK87, Mic Parts RK-87 and the Peluso P-K87

I was initially set on getting the Peluso capsule as the price tag was high and naturally one would think that this means better quality etc etc. but I read views that while it sounds amazing its not necessarily true to the original, so for me I thought I am not going to pay a this price for something that is not true to what I am building or as much as possible any way  - this is not my view it is just what I have read.

I like the price point of the Mic Parts RK-87 it seems like good value for money considering that it is up there with the others, but I also read that this is a little brighter than the HK87 - I am seriously considering this capsule, but leaning more to the HK87

I also came accross Tskguy HK87 - He seems to be up to his neck in work which is a good sign for me, as it indicates that there is high demand for his capsules, I have also read people rave about his capsules,, and to top it off,  I have also read that it is quite close to the original, but the price point is a bit higher compared to the RK-87 capsule - This capsule seems to be what I am leaning towards at the moment.

And then of course, the other cheap chinese versions, which I don't want to get into

So I hope you can begin to see, that you get quite a wide variety when you consider all of the factors -Price, Quality, Character, Opinions - it becomes hard to make a choice, so I am really just looking to hear peoples views from their own experience and what they thought of the different capsules. Maybe they have tried a few and have come to a conclusion as to which they feel is closest to the original, maybe one that I have not listed here?

Any way, I appreciate your input and hopefully there are some other guys who have something to say too!

I've heard clips of the HK87 and the Peluso.  I like the HK better.  I've done business with Tskguy and he's great to deal with and makes a quality product.  With that said, I always try to get an OEM capsule in my clone builds.  I've found that if you contact the manufacturer directly, sometimes the prices are not as high as you may think.  I've got OEM caps in my MK67's and they sound awesome. 

I was very happy with the BeesNeez K6 I used in my DU-67 build (sounded very close to a Neumann capsule in terms of realism, etc).

If his K8 capsule is anywhere near similar, I would give it a hard look.

In U67, we are having a hard time distinguushing the hk67 from a new production neumann sonically in cardioid.

Note eric has a "vintage" spec hk87 capsule that has smaller diameter drill holes and is a but more rolled off on the treble than his "standard"  model which tracts closer to the current iteration of neumann capsules.

Also consider many experts have acknowledged the front to back side matching in the neumann capsules to be superior to reproductions. . . Which could lead to better omni and figure 8 performance.

Every maker including neumann have variation from capsule to capsule.  In that sense, you sort of look for the best averages or guarantee policys and roll the dice.

chunger said:

In U67, we are having a hard time distinguushing the hk67 from a new production neumann sonically in cardioid.

Note eric has a "vintage" spec hk87 capsule that has smaller diameter drill holes and is a but more rolled off on the treble than his "standard"  model which tracts closer to the current iteration of neumann capsules.

Also consider many experts have acknowledged the front to back side matching in the neumann capsules to be superior to reproductions. . . Which could lead to better omni and figure 8 performance.

Every maker including neumann have variation from capsule to capsule.  In that sense, you sort of look for the best averages or guarantee policys and roll the dice.

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Thanks for your insight Chunger! I plan on getting my bodies, transformers and shock mounts from you by the way

Having a listen to your audio samples now and doing a blind test between the Peluso PK87i capsule and the HK87 capsule, surprisingly I must say that my ears preferred the Peluso PK87. I found it to be a bit smoother and less harsh on the highs compared with the HK87 - but then after reading the text I see that it says that you were using a 1st gen HK87, and not the current version, which leads me to wonder about the improvements. - Does the current version or vintage spec you mention overcome this? I would love to be able to hear the two :/

dacapitan said:

Having a listen to your audio samples now and doing a blind test between the Peluso PK87i capsule and the HK87 capsule, surprisingly I must say that my ears preferred the Peluso PK87. I found it to be a bit smoother and less harsh on the highs compared with the HK87 - but then after reading the text I see that it says that you were using a 1st gen HK87, and not the current version, which leads me to wonder about the improvements. - Does the current version or vintage spec you mention overcome this? I would love to be able to hear the two :/

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In the U87 circuit, I've only tested the "vintage spec" HK87 and the Peluso. . . I personally preferred the Peluso.  Others on forum felt it to be a bit too "modern" in its treble articulation but I did not feel it to be strident at all.  Current HK87 should be a bit open and brighter than the small hole "vintage spec" version.  I believe Eric opened up the drill hole diameter and decreased the membrane tension specs from the version I tested.

My experience with his current spec 67/87 type capsule is in U67 circuit, so not directly applicable.  We have a hard time telling it apart from the new production Neumann capsule that we have.  Primary use in our studio has been drum overheads L/R between the 2 mics (one with HK67 and one with new Neumann capsule purchased from Sennheiser).

I've never understood the wide disparity in sounds of K67 type capsules. When I first started building capsules more than 10 years ago I built K67 types. They are incredibly easy to get to sound right and match well. I can only conclude that the chinese prefer a brighter sounding capsule. That said if you can get a 797 Audio K67 capsule they sound fine and are not expensive. If you want something smoother get a chinese K47 type. 

Tim Campbell said:

That said if you can get a 797 Audio K67 capsule they sound fine and are not expensive.

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...probably the best of the 797Audio K67 capsules is this rendition (additional QC'ing for Studio Projects CS -series microphones):
http://www.frontendaudio.com/Studio-Projects-CS5-Capsule-p/9999-05494.htm
...more info:
http://recordinghacks.com/capsules/#K67

But are any of the 797 K67 backplate  isolated for U87 i type builds ?  I know that the microphone parts and Eric do have versions setup this way.

Only later model U87's (i,ai) have isolated backplates. All vintage U87's, U67's have electrically joined backplates. ( I now see you were talking a bout the i model but I will leave this for others that may not know this)

Tim Campbell said:

Only later model U87's (i,ai) have isolated backplates. All vintage U87's, U67's have electrically joined backplates. ( I now see you were talking a bout the i model but I will leave this for others that may not know this)

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yes, Actually that would be more like this.  The U87 came in different flavor but just technically ,  the U87 was the tuchel version the U87i was an XLR adaptation of the german tuchel and the U87p or U87ip was the version with a built in pad for US broadcast ,

all of those being vintage model have an isolated backplate, they were produce until the 1980
after 1980  the U87Ai comes into play with 60V polarisation and does have joined backplate,

that is what makes the difference with a K87 capsule isolated backplate and K870 wich have the joined backplate for newer still in production U87 , not the vintag one ,

As Far as the K67 type capsule it has always had joined backplate like all the U67 outhere,

Hope this helps clarify some stuff,


here is one of the best document to consult outhere for the history of capsule and construction and types of neuman vintage mic ,

https://cdn.groupbuilder.com/groupdiy/u/39511/58d0281994568.pdf

Sorry for adding to the confusion. I have about 10 vintage capsules none of which have isolated backplates. I had assumed they came from a mixture of U67's and 87's. They must all have come from U67's.

Sorry for adding to the confusion. I have about 10 vintage capsules none of which have isolated backplates. I had assumed they came from a mixture of U67's and 87's. They must all have come from U67's.

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Either that or the back-plate isolation  has somehow  shorted? Have you looked inside them Tim?  Do they have a metal or plastic spacer?

No I have had them open. The isolated capsules also have plastic sleeves around the screws holding the halves together. I believe if you go through the archives here you'll find I posted pictures of me disassembling K67 capsules about 10 or 12 years ago.

No I have had them open. The isolated capsules also have plastic sleeves around the screws holding the halves together. I believe if you go through the archives here you'll find I posted pictures of me disassembling K67 capsules about 10 or 12 years ago.

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Nice i'll lookout for it!

In your opinion Tim, which of the China K67 backplates has the closest mechanical accuracy to the original?

These days with chinese K67 capsules it's hard to see the forest for the trees so I'd be hard pressed to pick one. It's not my favorite capsule. I mention the 797 Audio capsule because I know the Microtech Gefell engineer who helped them build their original model and their quality is very good.

Generally it's not the backplate that's wrong with these , it's the membrane tuning and rest of the capsule setup.

Tim Campbell said:

I mention the 797 Audio capsule because I know the Microtech Gefell engineer who helped them build their original model and their quality is very good.

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...and David Bock has been fond of this capsule for years...used them in a few of his mics (U95, U195, etc)...still pops them into some custom builds from time to time...Rode used them in the original Rode NT Classic I as well as the old NT2...