Where do we go from here!

Group DIY has been a phenomenon.  Members of this group have built clones/replicas of current and vintage compressors, microphone preamplifiers, microphones, equalizers, effects, transformers, plate reverbs, summing mixers and recording consoles.  New designs have appeared as well with the development of custom printed circuit boards.  Front panel design, silk screens, CNC,  engraving and in-fill, chassis fabrication, microphone bodies and even microphone capsules.  I could go on.

I started building custom microphone preamps in 1989 and started my first DIY vacuum tube mic about 1991.  The difficulty then was obtaining parts.  No easy or cheap access to software for layout, circuit simulation, etc.  Group DIY and the internet has changed all that.  I found Group DIY in 2005 while designing a discrete opamp and its been an amazing ride for the last 10 years.

I just watched "The Wrecking Crew" and realized this forum (its members) are similar to the musicians in the crew.  A collection of talented people at the right place and at the right time.  It is truly amazing what the members of this forum have accomplished.   

So, with this in mind, where do we go from here?  Have we done it all?  Are we now in decline?

Regards,
Jeff

I would say we will always be here,  it goes in cycles, sometimes periods of little growth sometimes periods of lots of growth as the reasons we do this often change.    We will have  done it all and those kinds of statements do not promote growth. 

I would say 'go here, and make a donation'…

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=60034.0

Keep Group DIY alive!

Decline is in the hands of those on the  incline.  As stated there are all these resources and yes it is cyclical they will dry up eventually. But remember all great companies started in a lab and often that lab was the garage. Stasis sometimes is a self imposed reality not an actual externally caused state.  The only thing I see that we might do more of here is the LAB stuff.

I will start though off topic and in the wrong place. We have no problem dealing with a microphone that has a big old honkin' PSU attached to it if it has a tube circuit. So what is the reluctance of dealing with a PSU with a solid state mic and working away from all the compromises that result with the use of phantom powering? Is convenience always the trump of fidelity?

Maybe we establish a Group DIY think tank and profit sharing self sustaining system akin to the white market. It won't work I know!

So maybe more ideas to go with the clones.

I've been frquenting GDIY for a little over a year, and have been pretty serious about DIY'ing my own equipment for about 9 months. My main motivations to get into DIY were 1) I wanted to better understand how all my studio gear worked, and 2) I thought I would save tons of money (ha!).

I will say though that most of my DIY has been "Assemble It Yourself" - either full kits or pre-made pcb's with provided BOM's, frontpanel express files, etc... Once you get the hang of a soldering iron, the rest is pretty much paint by numbers. The closest I've come to true DIY was designing a simple pcb in kicad, although admittedly the design was using a schematic created by someone else. In total, the learning curve up until this point has been pretty easy.

It's the "how does all this stuff work" part that has been an extremely steep learning curve. I've developed a general overall understanding of some circuits, basically what building blocks make up a circuit and their general role. For instance, transformer balanced mic pre; what the input transformer does, what the gain stage does, what the output transformer does. But, when I dive in to each of those building blocks, I get totally lost. What is this resistor/capacitor doing? Why is a specific value component being used?

So, how to make it easier for people to advance from the "assembly" stage of DIY to the "design" stage? More knowledge = more experimentation = more new ideas.  I would love to have enough basic knowledge to take a shot at designing something, I'm sure many other people in a similar situation as me would, too.

One thing I've been thinking about is a couple tutorials for the META that take a somewhat simple schematic, maybe API 312 for starters, and walks through it piece by piece, explaining the purpose and any math/theory associated with it. I think this would provide a good platform to help people better understand the basic concepts that are applied in numerous audio circuits. I'm more than happy to do the work to write something up if one of you knowledgeable members wants to lend me your brain.

incline or decline is a glass half full/half empty characterization (or wrong sized glass).

Over time we see people come and go, some we miss more than others.  :'(

I also see newbies learn and acquire skills so they can help the next crop of newbies with all their newbie questions.

I am not a big fan of building stuff I can buy (rarely cheaper or better), while there is always a list of things that you just can't buy for any price... 

Sadly sometimes you learn why nobody makes that commercial product.. I wasted too much time and money trying to make a Peltier based crock pot, so I could slow cook food while cooling my kitchen. A great concept but the technology just wasn't up to the task. 

Other times you can actually come up with something novel and useful.

Most design engineers were mentored by other senior engineers when learning the basics, so it's just fair to pass it along. 

JR

We are a fading breed.

What we have now entertain our youth is social networking on little pocket screens where they can make a noise and a splash without moving from their seat.

There is a serious lack of desire to pick up a guitar and get proficient at it to the point where you want to make a fuzz box. Stomp boxes (Babies first circuits) are virtual now and free.

So went radio shack and I expect many other unknowns like Ball Electronics in Anaheim (Are they still there?)

All hail those who know that  Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly.

I think you are overthinking it. DIY is for fun and that's it. You are having fun, that's good. You don't - browse some other forums or look at icanhascheesburger. This is an amazing resource and an amazing group of people and it doesn't have to go anywhere or achieve anything.

This place has chased people away.  Some had good posts but for some reason people ganged up on them and made them feel unwelcome. 

I gave up sharing anything different because of how I was treated in a few threads. 

With all the clones and people selling kits I got bored. 

Gus said:

This place has chased people away.  Some had good posts but for some reason people ganged up on them and made them feel unwelcome. 

I gave up sharing anything different because of how I was treated in a few threads. 

With all the clones and people selling kits I got bored.

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I too. But I also remember my young days and (I don't want to get off topic again) Heathkit. It is for some the place they start is all. Yes there are haters and rough insecure debaters and those who just want to feel good by rehashing what they read in a magazine instead of what they actually witnessed. Ego has no place in the world of DIY  and isn't it nice that the new people feel safe here, just be sure to bring your insecurity blanket and remember where the fire extinguisher is, you do have a fire extinguisher don't you?  ;D

We could try to develop an "green" Micpre.
Compostable will not be possible for now,  ;D

This place has chased people away.  Some had good posts but for some reason people ganged up on them and made them feel unwelcome.

I gave up sharing anything different because of how I was treated in a few threads.

With all the clones and people selling kits I got bored. 

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Yes it is unfortunate that some will bring drama and push good minds away.  I'm not sure there will ever be a forum that doesn't suffer from this behavior.    The frequency of this has been minimal in Group DIY and the general conduct here is way above average and very respectful!    I would only hope that these mentors can rise above that "noise" and realize that the majority of the members still need their invaluable contributions. 

I started building everything from the ground up and kits were a new thing to me.  They're typically not as challenging nor as rewarding once finished.  But, as a working engineer I don' t have time to design and build everything.  I want/need the tools for recording so the kits are great.  They are fun to assemble and more fun to put to good use in the studio.    I live by "everything in moderation, including moderation".    Too many kits is not good.    I don't necessarily learn much from the kits, but I already possess much of the knowledge.    If someone new just builds kits, they won't gain the hard earned knowledge of circuit design, pcb design, hardware fabrication,  board level debug, etc etc.    It was inevitable this forum would move toward kits as the members shared their knowledge and hard work.    I believe it was also inevitable that we would cover so much ground.   

That brings me back to the original point.    Obviously, I've overstated the "we've done it all" but I think my point is valid.  I don't feel this forum is stagnant nor at its peak yet!    My objective is to stimulate thinking about the future and where to take Group DIY before that happens. 

Regards,
Jeff

I'll throw out a couple of wild ideas.

GroupDiy-K
Members invest in the best of the new designs (no clones) from the brightest minds here.  The group investment will fund the start-up and all those that invest would share the risk and profits.   

GroupDIY Studio(s)
Members contribute talents, gear (both new designs and purchased), studio space,, etc.    Stragtegicaly placing these studios where they would be near a large group of DIY'rs and musicians wanting to take advantage of the studios.  Making money here would be difficult but it would offer many other benefits.
   
Crazy, probably!

deveng said:

This place has chased people away.  Some had good posts but for some reason people ganged up on them and made them feel unwelcome.

I gave up sharing anything different because of how I was treated in a few threads.

With all the clones and people selling kits I got bored. 

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Yes it is unfortunate that some will bring drama and push good minds away.  I'm not sure there will ever be a forum that doesn't suffer from this behavior.    The frequency of this has been minimal in Group DIY and the general conduct here is way above average and very respectful!    I would only hope that these mentors can rise above that "noise" and realize that the majority of the members still need their invaluable contributions. 

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I am not a real old timer here, but it seems the behavior here was worse even just several years ago, and is worse now on numerous other forums.

It is natural for some mentors to grow weary of similar questions and burn out. Even worse is when you give advice you know is good and get arguments.  ;D ;D  But that's why the WWW often likened to herding cats.

About the only other thing that improves internet behavior is mandating the use of real names so people don't hide behind sham personas and attack anonymously.  Most people here share their real names and that adds to civil discourse and reduces ad hominum.

I started building everything from the ground up and kits were a new thing to me.  They're typically not as challenging nor as rewarding once finished.  But, as a working engineer I don' t have time to design and build everything.  I want/need the tools for recording so the kits are great.  They are fun to assemble and more fun to put to good use in the studio.    I live by "everything in moderation, including moderation".    Too many kits is not good.    I don't necessarily learn much from the kits, but I already possess much of the knowledge.    If someone new just builds kits, they won't gain the hard earned knowledge of circuit design, pcb design, hardware fabrication,  board level debug, etc etc.    It was inevitable this forum would move toward kits as the members shared their knowledge and hard work.    I believe it was also inevitable that we would cover so much ground.   

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I used to operate a kit business. Back in the (not so) good old days it was a viable method to get a merchantable product for less money by supplying the labor (I built and used a bench full of heathkit test equipment). Then was then and since automation it is hard to build a kit and be cheaper than buying an assembled product. That said I don't quite understand the attraction to the clone business. 

Most real design engineers hate to reinvent old wheels, and the original products were generally made as good as they could using the old technology. Intentionally limiting performance of a new product to mimic old technology does not seem productive use of time (IMO) , but I realize I may not be in the majority there.  (When I suggested designing a plug-in to mimic tape saturation it was generally dismissed.)

That brings me back to the original point.    Obviously, I've overstated the "we've done it all" but I think my point is valid.  I don't feel this forum is stagnant nor at its peak yet!    My objective is to stimulate thinking about the future and where to take Group DIY before that happens. 

Regards,
Jeff

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After 40+ years working with, and designing a lot of different audio products, analog technology seems pretty mature to me. I see new and exciting stuff from DSP and some other clever novel engineering applied to loudspeaker configurations or even class D power amps (Putzey).

I would never say that everything good has already been invented, but I do not see novelty as a serious pursuit from many. 

Of course for DIY projects spending your own time an money, do whatever floats your boat. There is a wealth of experience here to draw upon, so keep on keepin on. . 

JR

At the risk of stating the glaringly obvious, I think this is just the place for guys that just like to make audio stuff.

Does it have to be more complicated than that?

The camraderie and mentorship are huge bonuses.

Cheers!

Phrazemaster said:

At the risk of stating the glaringly obvious, I think this is just the place for guys that just like to make audio stuff.

Does it have to be more complicated than that?

The camraderie and mentorship are huge bonuses.

Cheers!

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Perfectly stated.  A 'like' was not quite enough to show my agreement with this comment.

things will be picking up, 9-11, financial crisis,  MP3, Britney, multiple addictions and job loss, all behind us now,

you should see the poster board in front of the guitar shop, tons of new bands, gigs everywhere, hell even my co-worker guitar tech is hitin the note and heading across the US and into Europe,

check this track>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-kxBbA_nzQ

need an oxy groove ?>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp4gm544kHI

on the other hand, J McMurtry says he needs to sell 70,000 CD's to break  even, so you release a CD to tour, instead of tour to make $$ on a CD, WTF, over?

radio?  big mess, gotta go indy, ears glued to these 24/7>

http://sunradio.com/
http://khum.com/khumstream/
http://kfjc.org/netcast/index.php
http://1045thevault.com/

Speaking for myself, I don't feel I have plateaued out by a long chalk.  I will always be on the learning curve.

Every time I make an old design from scratch I learn something new. 

Until we can all understand and apply all the stuff in RDH4, we can't say we have arrived and that it's downhill from now on.

Some may think this current generation wants everything to be as instant as a text, I don't know.  But what I do know is that the research in making an old design is very very interesting and confidence building too.  You get to a point where you know what will happen if you use a modern product for something that is no longer made, for example.  When I think of most successful people in this world (even Trump), they have one thing in common, "They never give up".  In the end that is what produces results and inspires others.

Kits and clones are great to get you started and give you the bug, but they are really only a toe in the water.  The deeper you go in this hobby, the more rewarding it gets and I'm only talking tubes/valves here, transistors and chips makes the study even wider.

DaveP

deveng said:

I just watched "The Wrecking Crew"

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But did you notice these knobs?

WOW!

Gustav

Although correlation != causality it's clear the size of the knob is linearly dependent on the heat of the equipment said knob is connected. And ovens have the biggest knobs.