Audio capacitors and resistors

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I, for one, don't really believe in these sort of "fairy tales" (no offense) :) One thing i strive for, at least when modding/upgrading mics, is removing / replacing any and all ceramic capacitors. I've seen cases where they failed by shorting out, i've seen cases where they just literally created noise. Adding to that the fact that they're microphonic, and (except for the NPO/C0G types) their actual value is strongly dependend on the DC bias applied to them, and they can vary (wildly) with temperature, why would you even consider them anymore?

And tantalums - just NO. They can also fail shorted, but with more explosive results than ceramics.

Chinese / no-name electrolytics - these are a big no-no for me, at least due to lifetime/reliabilty concerns. Gimme a good japanese 'lytic, and i'm fine :) Rubycon, Nichicon, United Chemi-Con / Nippon Chemi-Con, Panasonic, and Elna. And i don't mean any of the fancy-pancy "for audio" stuff.

I'll admit any day of the week that i've got "tin ears", as opposed to "golden ears" :D (and going by http://nwavguy.blogspot.fi/2012/04/what-we-hear.html, noone really does, anyway) But whenever feasible, "plastic" caps are preferrable, in the signal path. And by "plastic" i mean "any film caps".
 
I'm big into experimenting with these sort of things and not just believing or disbelieving based on theory or recommendation.  The results can be really surprising and just because something makes a difference in one circuit doesn't mean it will in another.  Generally, Iike the Vishay/Dale CMF and similar such resistors because they're quiet and reliable.  In certain positions, AB/Stackpole/Ohmite carbon comps are nice, though I no longer use them throughout. 

For caps, it completely depends on the application!  I'll use anything from ancient Sprague Vit Q's to your standard modern production Mouser fare, to boutiques like Mundorf Silver/Gold.  I'll stick with standard production items unless I hear enough improvement in that particular application to justify something exotic.  For electrolytics, I like Nicholson.  For film, there's many good makers.  Solen are nice and not all that expensive.  Again, it comes down to what it's going in, and where.  In some spots you simply want accuracy and reliability.  In others, tone becomes a factor so there's many things to take into account, including price.  Experimentation is the key to discovery.
 
It's not that, but i had never heard of that brand before, and googling revealed nothing in that direction, so.... :D

I can only assume that was intended to be Nichicon, perhaps? :)
 
Where are the people who can hear the difference between copper and silver wire, PVC and teflon insulation etc?
Yesterday I read an article about Vovox cable, for some reason it will only sound good if you use the cable 'in the right direction'...
Also the difference between carbon and metal film resistors seems to be audible.
Well, in that case I am a lucky guy, because I don't hear the difference! :p
 
Some components, such as resistors, have a tendency to change their values depending on temperature. Simple experiment: take a resistor, measure its value at normal temperature and , say, 70-80 degrees. Some will change their values. Therefore, there may be a difference in sound. In strong currents, such as in guitar amplifiers, carbon resistors can give a specific colour, because of distortions.
About silver, alluminium and other materials : all what you need to measure : resistance and capacity of the different wires. If you find the difference, than there is difference in sound. If not-forget about audiophiler's myths.  With capacitors it is slightly more difficult, as there are several significant parameters that can be set. However, if you limit their aspirations to only one direction : reliability and maximum linearity of the sound, the choice will be obvious. Influence of capacitors on sound has long been studied. However, if you are looking for a specific colour, which was specific to certain devices, microphones in the past, the choice, again, is obvious.
 
Those sort of temperature dependencies are usually specified - in resistors, 100ppm/C seems to be a pretty standard value. So yes, technically, they DO change value, but in the grand scheme of things, by a relatively insignificant margin, imho :) Add to that the 1% or 5% tolerance out of the factory...

If we're getting into audible(!) differences between wires (barely a couple inches, in microphones), I'd like to point your attention to two videos (from workshops from AES shows - a relatively reputable source, i trust?).

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvireu2SGZM


o3misha said:
Some components, such as resistors, have a tendency to change their values depending on temperature. Simple experiment: take a resistor, measure its value at normal temperature and , say, 70-80 degrees. Some will change their values. Therefore, there may be a difference in sound. In strong currents, such as in guitar amplifiers, carbon resistors can give a specific colour, because of distortions.
About silver, alluminium and other materials : all what you need to measure : resistance and capacity of the different wires. If you find the difference, than there is difference in sound. If not-forget about audiophiler's myths.  With capacitors it is slightly more difficult, as there are several significant parameters that can be set. However, if you limit their aspirations to only one direction : reliability and maximum linearity of the sound, the choice will be obvious. Influence of capacitors on sound has long been studied. However, if you are looking for a specific colour, which was specific to certain devices, microphones in the past, the choice, again, is obvious.
 
Yes, but different types of resistors change its value differently. Carbon/film resistotrs decrease value, metal/film resistors-increase. So, -5-10% and +5-10% = 10-20% difference. It can cause audible difference IMHO. Anode resistor, for example. 
I can't hear any audible difference with different types of wires inside of microphone.
 
100ppm/C x 80C = 8000ppm, agreed? That's 0.8%, correct?

Now, considering your example of an anode resistor, i think we can agree that, at a certain (constant) signal level, once it's up to its working temperature, that's gonna stay pretty much where it is, ie. its thermal inertia is very likely too big, for it to change its temperature (and accordingly, its value) with the signal, right?

So you're trying to tell me an 0.8% variation in a resistor's value is audible? :) And where exactly did you take those numbers from?
 
I measured the value of Kiwame resistors, for example. Measured resistor with normal temperature and warm( 80degeers). It changes value from 100 to 95 k0hm. It is not a problem, but some people can hear the difference between 100kOhm Kiwame and 100kOhm of old Soviet metal/film resistor.  Thats my 50 cents. There are some examples of changing value of ceramic 5w Chinese  resistors. Under load and in the absence of cooling they lose up to 3% of it's value. If the resistor is in the bias circuits of mic, it makes a huge difference.
 
RuudNL said:
Where are the people who can hear the difference between copper and silver wire, PVC and teflon insulation etc?
Yesterday I read an article about Vovox cable, for some reason it will only sound good if you use the cable 'in the right direction'...
Have you seen many of those people here?  I haven't, and I don't think you'll find many, if any here who will argue about those things.  There are some physical benefits though.  For instance, PTFE not splitting under heat.  Silver plating not oxidizing like bare copper.  I certainly don't mind paying for features like that.
 
Silver plating not oxidizing like bare copper
Silver oxidates like h*ll! (Silver oxide is black)
But the good thing is that silver oxide is also a good conductor, so it does not really matter...

All these discussions about subtle differences in sound quality usually give me a good laugh.
I remember that once a forum of HiFi specialist compared loudspeaker cables.
There were some expensive ones, and also some very expensive ones...
The cables only had numers, so the forum member did not know which brand of cable they were listening to.
Just as a joke, they had added some cheap electricity wire from IKEA, and the IKEA cable had a number also.
The forum members listened, listened again, compared and discussed...
Their conclusion was unanimous: The IKEA cable sounded the best!

My rule of thumb for loudspeaker cables: not too thin (more copper=better) and not longer than necessary!
 
RuudNL said:
Silver plating not oxidizing like bare copper
Silver oxidates like h*ll! (Silver oxide is black)
But the good thing is that silver oxide is also a good conductor, so it does not really matter...

All these discussions about subtle differences in sound quality usually give me a good laugh.
I remember that once a forum of HiFi specialist compared loudspeaker cables.
There were some expensive ones, and also some very expensive ones...
The cables only had numers, so the forum member did not know which brand of cable they were listening to.
Just as a joke, they had added some cheap electricity wire from IKEA, and the IKEA cable had a number also.
The forum members listened, listened again, compared and discussed...
Their conclusion was unanimous: The IKEA cable sounded the best!

My rule of thumb for loudspeaker cables: not too thin (more copper=better) and not longer than necessary!
Correct, maybe you read it as "silver doesn't oxidize" but that was not my intent at all.  It simply doesn't degrade the same way through oxidation.

As to the later, that's why I don't read those hi-fi and headphone forums!  I agree, they play too fast and lose with fact and information.  On the other hand, I am also careful to ignore those who  don't seem to hear differences in anything.  A person can miss out on a lot of things doing that.  Why there is such a big divide between between the hi-fiers and the skeptics, I don't know.  Maybe some hate spending money and others feel good about using money as a solution.  I'd rather not take either road and just find out for myself what makes a difference.
 
I, for one, hate spending money for no good reason :D

For example, if we're talking making / modding mics - if i can get 90% of a "vintage" mic, for (less than) 10% of the price, why the hell not? Yes, i'd rather use good (industrial) quality japanese radial electrolytics rather than hard-to-find, relatively expensive and doubtful longevity axial ones. Yes, i'd rather use "jellybean" resistors than some military-grade ones. Yes, i'd rather use some reasonably-sized "plastic" caps (rather than oversized & overpriced "audio" caps) or paper-in-oil caps as old as my dad. That's partially why i've amassed the collection of plastic caps i've "harvested" from various boards i've laid my hands on, along the years :) Aaaaand i'm a bit skeptical about the whole turret-vs-PCB debate. Yes, we want the high-impedance nodes as nicely isolate as we can, but everything else is utterly irrelevant, isn't it?

And i'll admit, i'm not all that manic about "historical accuracy". Hell, a whole lot of those revered vintage mics don't even sound alike, even though they're the same models (due to different aging and whatnot), so who can really say how a "real" one sounds like, anyway? And at the end of the day, isn't it (even) more important how it sounds on a particular source? :)

Oh, and i can't help but facepalm when i hear how highly-revered "hand-wired" guitar amps are. I mean, seriously???... :D
 
I couldn't agree more!
A friend of mine bought a super A+++ interlink cable to connect his CD player to his amplifier.
I think is was 100 Euro+ for a cable with a length of only 1 meter.
He thinks he can hear the difference: oxide free silver, teflon insulation, gold plated connectors etc.
In the case of a CD player, the output impedance is low, say 100 ohms, the input impedance of the amplifier is high (10 K+), so resistance nor capacity of the cable is an issue.
My opinion: what he hears is the 'hole' in his wallet, he has spent a lot of money on this cable, so he wants to hear that it sounds better. IMHO it is mainly psychology!  ;)
My rule is: if it sounds good, it is good!
 
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