these are strange days for you me and Germany

Haven't seen comments on the events in France and Germany. Turkey and Middle East only, correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it really serious  or just "local accidents" and everything is under control? What do you think? Shall we see something like Israel situation in EU?
What BBC, NYT and others say? Thank you.

What is happening is that various losers are coming out of the woodwork and killing innocent people.

There seems to be a pattern emerging where young men with dual nationality, often with a record of petty crime, are inspired to start killing people by IS.

From what I can understand, the French police and intelligence agencies need to share information much more than they do.  In the UK information is shared from GCHQ, MI5, MI6 right down to local police.

I don't know enough about  the German situation as they have only just started to be targeted.

Best
DaveP

Looks like the Munich shooting was amok without any signs of national or international terror or anything IS related.

In the US, you'd call it "unfortunate gun accidents/mishappenings", in Europe, it's all just terrorism. Maybe we should consider giving it less press exposure..

Jakob E.

gyraf said:

In the US, you'd call it "unfortunate gun accidents/mishappenings", in Europe, it's all just terrorism. Maybe we should consider giving it less press exposure..

Jakob E.

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That's actually not correct though. Plenty of incidents in the US gets labeled "terrorism".

I'm in favor of calling a spade a spade. People need to know the truth in order to then make rational good decisions. Misrepresenting events in favor of "sparing" the population something is a very dangerous path to go down.

Of course, that only points the spotlight on the difficulty in being objective and truthful in reporting. In the US there sometimes a double standard in reporting crime, and a lot of the time there's an unwillingness to investigate in depth.

It is too early to comment intelligently about the most recent violence in Germany, we will learn more about it in future weeks (but that won't stop me  : ).

Germany has opened their nation to a pretty significant influx of migrants. On paper this could supplant a declining demographic (replacement rate) typical in the west, and need to expand the workforce in a strong exporting nation. Not all residents are happy with this change.

I hope all our friends in Germany are well.

JR

PS: Yes the political correctness climate leads to some gymnastics in language used to describe violent events.

And in other news, the British Government has decided, yes, we do need a new submarine-based nuclear missile system. This seems likely to cost as much as £130bn, somewhat more than the estimated £20bn

All we have to do now is get all those pesky terrorists in one spot so we can nuke 'em

Rational human beings would conclude that the money would be better spent on education & health, but rational is not a vote-winner. Brexit proved that

Nick Froome

gyraf said:

In the US, you'd call it "unfortunate gun accidents/mishappenings", in Europe, it's all just terrorism. Maybe we should consider giving it less press exposure..

Jakob E.

Click to expand...

Since 9/11 the public's sense of terrorism has been very much heightened and today an atrocity is immediately labelled terrorism/ISIS. The internet age serves only to amplify reactions. I think it is important to put these events into perspective. Although 9/11 was an obscene example, terrorism is not new. I went on honeymoon on Sept 9th 1973. We were young and poor so we had no car. We went by train to London. That same day the IRA bombed two London railway stations one of which were were en route to. Here is a list of terrorist attacks on the UK since 1970:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

Here is a similar list for Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Germany#List_of_significant_terrorist_incidents_in_Germany

and a more extensive list for France:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

Cheers

ian

ruffrecords said:

I think it is important to put these events into perspective. Although 9/11 was an obscene example, terrorism is not new. I went on honeymoon on Sept 9th 1973. We were young and poor so we had no car. We went by train to London. That same day the IRA bombed two London railway stations one of which were were en route to. Here is a list of terrorist attacks on the UL since 1970:

Click to expand...

I agree, perspective and context are important. Not only that, but we (like others) tend to focus on how we and our friends are negatively affected. Of course, while "long" periods of time have been relatively "peaceful" in our part of the world, other people have been suffering tremendously all over the planet.

Now, as it comes to the US, since you mentioned 9/11, there's been a relatively steady stream of terrorist events over the last few decades, some more publicized than others.  Not surprisingly, using a common definition of "terrorism" and looking at domestic US terrorism only a small part is committed by Muslims, yet the fear of an attack by Muslims is clearly higher.

pvision said:

Rational human beings would conclude that the money would be better spent on education & health, but rational is not a vote-winner. Brexit proved that

Nick Froome

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Yes rational people with the same information and same belief systems should come to the same result. Unfortunately the world supports many different belief systems and we rarely even agree about evident information.

JR

mattiasNYC said:

looking at domestic US terrorism only a small part is committed by Muslims, yet the fear of an attack by Muslims is clearly higher.

Click to expand...

thanks to Trump and mindlike 

It's strange how the term Terrorism has changed since 9/11 (and 3/11/04 here in Spain).

Previously we had local terrorism, ETA, a heavily IRA inspired group from the Basque Country. They were quite active and dangerous during the 80's and early 90's. They were called terrorist by the media, when they exploded a bomb causing personal injuries and deaths it was called terrorism, simple and true.

Now, terrorism is everything against political correctness, for example, women killed by their boyfriend/husband are victims of "sexist terrorism", or the political adversaries are called terrorist backers, in a very Manichaeism way.

The shooting in Munich maybe could be motivated by the same reasons as many other shootings around the world,  but given the situation in EU the line between simple violence and terrorism is blurry right now, specially if the shooter has foreign roots (something quite probable on the other hand).

We're living hard times, but seem to turn harder...

Emotionally charged language has been used for good and bad, mostly bad to sway opinion. The arguments over language sometimes seem irrational, but those behind the curtain trying to influence us are very serious.

We should try to focus on the actual physical events rather than how they are branded and packaged for our consumption. So much actual news gets ignored by heightened attention to only a few events per news cycle.

I recall when they first started broadcasting 24 hour news channels. I thought we would get more actual news. Instead we get the same small handful of stories repeated ad nauseum.  I have to read a paper newspaper to get more actual news.

I hate it when there is "breaking" news.  Breaking news is code for they do not have the facts so will speculate about the worst possible case scenario to boost ratings.  The modern news technology has outrun the flow of credible information, adding noise and confusion to the mix.

========
On the subject of terrorism, asymmetrical warfare has been around for a very long time, and psychological strategies to accomplish military goals were expounded upon in Sun Tzu's "The art of war" centuries BC. Terrorism is just another strategy to achieve a goal.

Nothing very new, but everybody wants to say "it's different this time".  The struggle in the middle east is far from new, but in my judgement we can't just ignore it or turn the other cheek hoping it will sort itself out and leave us alone. 

Of course opinions vary, and maybe my opinion is wrong.

JR

JohnRoberts said:

I recall when they first started broadcasting 24 hour news channels. I thought we would get more actual news. Instead we get the same small handful of stories repeated ad nauseum.  I have to read a paper newspaper to get more actual news.


JR

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Same here. They fill up the time with 'analysis' and a good dose of speculation. Basically zero information.

Cheers

ian

ruffrecords said:

JohnRoberts said:

I recall when they first started broadcasting 24 hour news channels. I thought we would get more actual news. Instead we get the same small handful of stories repeated ad nauseum.  I have to read a paper newspaper to get more actual news.


JR

Click to expand...

Same here. They fill up the time with 'analysis' and a good dose of speculation. Basically zero information.

Cheers

ian

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I cost money to gather and present more actual facts. Opinion and speculation is cheap.

The medium also rewards a bias favoring striking visuals, thus the engineered photo op so prevalent in political reporting, or preference for reporting about fires and explosions over thought pieces in the news. 

More pictures but less news of any substance.

JR

ruffrecords said:

JohnRoberts said:

I have to read a paper newspaper to get more actual news.

Click to expand...

Same here. They fill up the time with 'analysis' and a good dose of speculation. Basically zero information.

Click to expand...

Yep, TV is all too often filling up time with zero information.
I scan and read several newspapers online.

From what I understand, the three recent ''attacks' in Germany (one with an ax, one with a gun, one with a machete) is very little terrorism compared to other countries -- especially France, Turkey, Israel.

Script said:

ruffrecords said:

JohnRoberts said:

I have to read a paper newspaper to get more actual news.

Click to expand...

Same here. They fill up the time with 'analysis' and a good dose of speculation. Basically zero information.

Click to expand...

Yep, TV is all too often filling up time with zero information.
I scan and read several newspapers online.

From what I understand, the three recent ''attacks' in Germany (one with an ax, one with a gun, one with a machete) is very little terrorism compared to other countries -- especially France, Turkey, Israel.

Click to expand...

Actually, the latest attack in Germany might not even fall under the headline of "terrorism" but rather lunacy, not unlike some US mass shootings. No political motive = no "terrorism" as far as I see it.

Today there was another incident here in Germany, not far from my hometown.
An immigrant blew up himself after not beeing granted access to a music festival. "Fortunately" there are no reports of people who have died besides himself, "only" injuries.

I can really start to feel the tension rising up here. I don't feel that save any more going to our big shopping mall or to concerts on the weekend.

Majestic12 said:

I can really start to feel the tension rising up here. I don't feel that save any more going to our big shopping mall or to concerts on the weekend.

Click to expand...

This is the goal of terrorism.

Today there was another incident here in Germany, not far from my hometown.
An immigrant blew up himself after not being granted access to a music festival. "Fortunately" there are no reports of people who have died besides himself, "only" injuries.

Click to expand...

How does a failed asylum seeker get a bomb?
As a retired chemist, I know these things are incredibly dangerous and difficult to make.
DaveP