Winding the Neve LO1166

Hey guys, I tried to wind this guy based on CJ's LO-1166.pdf document but it seems that winding exceed  the space. U used the Cosmo http://www.cosmocorp.com/dwg/Cosmo_7038-0_2.pdf bobbin.

Anyone succeed with this? I also tried to simulate winding scheme and tried to change the magwire dia to smaller, but best I can do is "winding space 127%"

had the same problem, apparently they pulled hard on that wire, almost to the breaking point, in fact, one of the 1166 we unwound  had a busted primary wire, they are trying to get the leakage down by doing this, on a Peerless output blueprint for the 16433 it says 'wind tight!) on it,

use a smaller gauge if you want to make it more dependable, it might not behave exactly like the original transformers, DCR will be different, hi end might be different, but at least the inner winding won't break when the core gets hot,

CJ said:

had the same problem, apparently they pulled hard on that wire, almost to the breaking point, in fact, one of the 1166 we unwound  had a busted primary wire, they are trying to get the leakage down by doing this, on a Peerless output blueprint for the 16433 it says 'wind tight!) on it,

use a smaller gauge if you want to make it more dependable, it might not behave exactly like the original transformers, DCR will be different, hi end might be different, but at least the inner winding won't break when the core gets hot,

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Hi mate, thaks for your comment. Yes, I tried to make it with  smaller gauge and I still miss approx 1.5mm Also, I tensioned the wire on my cnc machine to hell now I wonder did I read your scheme correctly?
When you say "insulation clear poly 0.0015 two wraps in between layers" you meant insulation after every of 25 layers? layer1=74T, then ins. then layer 2=77T and so on.  In total that's 25 insulations 0.0015 then twice as u stated and we end with total height of 0.075inch (1.9mm) just for insulation. Space to wind is approx 9mm so we have just 7mm for the wire. Or i miss something?  Please advise

  I've done over winding and got away with it, when winding I let the wings of the bobbing to open so more turns get into it, even if not super tight allowing this gives you more space. Once finished, assembled the core over that, lams won't completely close at the beginning but putting it into the vice does the job, maybe some wood not to hurt the lams, slowly pressing them to fit tightly. I got quite higher wind count than I could with any other method for the same transformer.

JS

i've done a fair few 1166s now and i use 0.3mm and it all gets on there, pretty tight but enough space to get the lams on.
but mines on EI-65.
i certainly dont tighten it to what CJs saying.

joaquins said:

  I've done over winding and got away with it, when winding I let the wings of the bobbing to open so more turns get into it, even if not super tight allowing this gives you more space. Once finished, assembled the core over that, lams won't completely close at the beginning but putting it into the vice does the job, maybe some wood not to hurt the lams, slowly pressing them to fit tightly. I got quite higher wind count than I could with any other method for the same transformer.

JS

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Cool, you are talking generally or about LO1166? Because I did all the known tricks on this guy, but no sucess.

and your using EI-75 and cant get all the winds on there?

Spencerleehorton said:

and your using EI-75 and cant get all the winds on there?

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yes, but not  Eu Ei75. Its Other standard and  it's 57mm wide so its smaller than evem Ei60 whar is cloaest EU substitute

you wanna get EI-65

you know you have the right tension when you hear this crunching noise which is the wire forcing itself between the underlying turns, there are not a lot of turns on there but they are squeezing the most they can get on there,

nowadays they wind even layers which means the turns will lay flat which means less tension needed to get the wire on,

what does even layers sound like compared to scatter winding? can't vouch for that, probably need fancy equipment to measure that, or a good set of eardrums,

you can get a feel of how tight those old 1166 coils are when you unwind them, sometimes the wire is so buried that you have to heat up the coil and yank hard to free the turn without breakage.

so two differences between new and old coils, winding technique and the reverse wind on one of the sections,

there is no insulation between layers, only sections IIRC,  and maybe only yellow tape at that,

there might have been varnish build up when i measure the wire but not that much, measure DCR to find out if you have the right wire size,

Thanks CJ. Now I have the winding challenge.

Moby said:

Cool, you are talking generally or about LO1166? Because I did all the known tricks on this guy, but no sucess.

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  No, I was winding a trifilar on 62 lams with 0.3mm wire IIRC. Trying to get something like a 2503 but  with just 3 windings. Leave you a freq response chart driven by the usual circuit for it. The wiggling was due to the sound card antialiasing filter I guess.

  Before that one I've tried with a more relaxed way, less tension, cooking film between layers, I got nowhere near in ammount of windings or freq, and capacitance was about 30% lower than the final one. It was much neater to look at the winding as layers wouldn't bite each other.

JS

I alreadu did 2503 with quadrafillar wire withouth any issue. This one, 1166 is killing me!

well i followed CJ's winding sheet and got it all on there with 0.315mm and insulation layers on EI-65, sounds pretty good to me.

regards

Spence.

Moby said:

I alreadu did 2503 with quadrafillar wire withouth any issue. This one, 1166 is killing me!

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  It's quite hard to get decent cores around here, when I got a nice supplier of M6 GO I got a few sets of 75 lams to do something like that but I never got the time. As I said, I wasn't cloning the 2503, I never found the exact construction of it. I just started to wind trifilar and made a few experiments till I get what I was looking for. As it's not the right core either I probably needed more turns to get decent results, I think now is possible to source some Ni here but at the time I didn't find anything.

JS

Spencerleehorton said:

well i followed CJ's winding sheet and got it all on there with 0.315mm and insulation layers on EI-65, sounds pretty good to me.

regards

Spence.

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Hey Spence,  excuse my ignorance but i'm not familiar with EI65 shape. I know for EI60, than EI66. I have them both on my stock btw. Can you give some more info about?

joaquins said:

  It's quite hard to get decent cores around here, when I got a nice supplier of M6 GO I got a few sets of 75 lams to do something like that but I never got the time. As I said, I wasn't cloning the 2503, I never found the exact construction of it. I just started to wind trifilar and made a few experiments till I get what I was looking for. As it's not the right core either I probably needed more turns to get decent results, I think now is possible to source some Ni here but at the time I didn't find anything.

JS

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I used EU version of the 625EI lams, called EI48. Material M6. 4 litz wire 29AWG (APPROX 0.3). Nothing special about it, just 300 turns and it's done

  EI sizes standars are nuts, good luck finding a table containing all of them... On top of that seems each manufacturer have slight differences over the same standards, even with compatible sizes slight differences could be there. Then there are a few different standards depending on region, but that's usual.

JS

Moby said:

I used EU version of the 625EI lams, called EI48. Material M6. 4 litz wire 29AWG (APPROX 0.3). Nothing special about it, just 300 turns and it's done

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Friend Moby,
I have EI75 Bobins if you need any, these are the ones I have:

http://edcorusa.com/b075-100-00

I can also get EL75 lams locally if you need:

http://www.duarteneves.com/en/laminated-silicon-steel/4762-chapa-de-grao-m6x-ei-75.html



I would like to do some LO1166 type transformers soon, Im still confused on how to do the Gap, Ive only unwound an LO2567 and theres no gap in that one so I dont know how the gap is made on a LO1166 transformer, if anyone could show me some pictures that would be great,

Thanks

Thank mate as soon i windcthe first one I will probably try some more. Than, bobbins will be cool. Regarding the gap, thats nothing more than paper isolation between E and I part. So u dont make the core criss-cross E-I ,but u have ro make separate E and I "blocks" Paper gives the  isolation between them.