Maturing of the musical skills of the Beatles

Having recently retired, I have decided to start cataloguing my record collection, and while doing so over the last few days, I was listening to the 'Beatles in Mono' record collection that my dear wife bought for me as a birthday present. 

I decided to listen to them in order and was amazed about how the Beatles progressed and matured in their composing and performing skills over such a short period - particularly from 1962 to 1966 - and of course mentored by George Martin.  The early ones sound very primitive, simple recording techniques, songs about boy meets girl with some delicious undertones ("You know what I mean") progressing to 'A Day in the Life'.

My thoughts then drifted to how they would have progressed if the Beatles had not broken up.  McCartney's stuff never sounded the same to me.  Would he have been better still working with Lennon?

Thoughts?

regards

Mike

I like a lot of Macca's later stuff, and Lennon's and George's too. I think they all grew in different directions post the break up. I think they had outgrown each other in many ways.

Cheers

Ian

The whole racket "grew up" through the 1960s. Even the Monkees-- highly produced with mostly studio artists, you can hear the music and recording techniques improve.

This trend slowed down. While corny, I like the original Rocky Horror show sound. Last night's TV re-make was bland.

It was proven after the breakup that John, Paul and George were capable solo artists that were crammed into and restrained by the band format.  Especially George, whom I understand enjoyed the most commerically successful career post Beatles. And toward the end, they had made enough money that they lost the hunger that propels younger poorer artists toward success. Seems Paul and John were salt and pepper for one another - John providing the edge and Paul the pop sensibility. That's of course a gross generalization, they both managed to rock and also produce sappy love songs post Fab. But I never felt they were as interesting solo as they were as a group. Again, just so much talent all in one group.

And that year or so in Hamburg playing 12 hours a day made them one of the finest bands ever in terms of playing parts that created a sum greater than the parts, not counting the great songwriting. The way they orchestrated parts still informs me today.

Well, we could never speculate on what would have happened, because it didn't happen. But to quote George Martin(who was responsible for most, if not all of the string arrangements, horn arrangements, etc..) "Paul was more about the music per say, and John was more about the words per say. Paul needed me more, whereas John didn't need me as much." I believe that they continued to progress each in their own way after the Beatles broke up, and it didn't need to resemble or live up their previous efforts.

The times, they were a changing.

Suggested readings. All You Need is Ears by Sir George Martin, Here There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the music of the Beatles by Geoff Emerick and  Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell.

Also fun, Recording the Beatles : The Studio Equipment and Techniques Used to Create Their Classic Albums by Brian Ryan and Kevin Kehew.

These books IMO show that The Beatles were no happy accident. That their successes where forged in the fires of hard work brutal guidance and the fortunate reality of the right place at the right time. They are the real deal and they truly love what they do and get to do what they love. Also EMI/Abbey Road was probably the best studio complex in England at the time!

Remember they only really lasted for Ten years 1960 to 1970, only really toured hard for 3 years '63 to'66 and really broke up in 1969 their last album really coming out after they were no more.

In many ways their maturation was really more a combination of gigging and exploration, trust in themselves and in others, others growing to trust in them added with true spirit of invention and tenacity! Also the Record Companies being finally overwhelmed with the cash flowing in and leaving them alone to do what they did with out the normal meddling!

They where as much fans and students as they were contributors and innovators. Remember in the beginning bands like the Dave Clark Five were in the charts just as tough as the Beatles!

The day The New York Times announced the break up and my mother told me still hurts!!!

On second thought I'm wrong! It was truly magic!!!

Pip said:

Suggested readings. All You Need is Ears by Sir George Martin, Here There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the music of the Beatles by Geoff Emerick and  Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell.

Also fun, Recording the Beatles : The Studio Equipment and Techniques Used to Create Their Classic Albums by Brian Ryan and Kevin Kehew.

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Excellent selection; I would add "please please me" by Gordon Thomson. It covers the story of Brit pop from the very beginning (Lonnie Donegan, Tommy Steeele, Johnny Kidd, Cliff Richard) and shows the role of sociological changes in the way they turned a hobby into an economical activity of national importance.

AusTex64 said:

It was proven after the breakup that John, Paul and George were capable solo artists that were crammed into and restrained by the band format.  Especially George, whom I understand enjoyed the most commerically successful career post Beatles.

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"All Things Must Pass" is the best Beatle solo record, and I will fight anyone who disagrees!

Back in 67 I thought that Sergeant Pepper was just like the other albums, a great stride forward,  Then after 1980 I never listened to it again for 25 years (stupid I know) but then when I heard it again I saw it in an entirely new light, like the show it was meant to be, but I never heard it that way the first time around.

Having said that, Revolver is still my favourite album, "and your bird can sing" and" she said she said" tying for best tracks.  I also love Lennon's "tomorrow never knows" and No9 off the white album, way out back then, but right on the money today.

I always thought that Lennon and McCartney were at their best when they wrote together, I never bought any of their solo work.
McCartney always seemed to need Lennon's edge to lift it to another level.  Solo artists tend to become self indulgent when they are too famous to be criticised.

DaveP

DaveP said:

Having said that, Revolver is still my favourite album, "and your bird can sing" and" she said she said" tying for best tracks.

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Don't forget I'm only sleeping! In fact, all the titles are so good, except the silly submarine. Joe Public didn't miss that as he chose submarine as the big hit. 

I always thought that Lennon and McCartney were at their best when they wrote together, I never bought any of their solo work.
McCartney always seemed to need Lennon's edge to lift it to another level. 

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That is true, but  Lennon managed to produce albums that were a notch above contemporary production.
The one who definitely improved after the break-up was George. Brainwashed and Cloud nine are pure jewels.

I really love listening to the 'stereo' mixes (modern mastering version) - the ones with the  very dis-similar left-right signals.

On one of my old tube amps (mid sixties el84 japanese), you can do the fancy left-right switching

Hearing the voices on one side, and the drums/rhythm on the other (for example) is a real ear-opener 

Surely I can hear a lot more details that are otherwise buried in the regular stereo imaging.   

The modern 'mono' mixes are outstanding - on my regular tube amps (el34 monoblocs), I can hear things that I previously did not register ....  and  I've been listening to them for some 45years+  !

My favourite is 'NoWhere Man' - the start of the lead break just explodes out of the blocks.

Now that is 'real' compression for me     

Abbey Road came out just after I left secondary school and I was in the first year of my undergraduate apprenticeship at British Aerospace. Part of the apprenticeship was to sample working in a wide variety of departments and it just so happened that soon after Abbey Road was released, I and another apprentice also called Ian were assigned to work in the wages department for two weeks. By then we both knew the entire album by heart. All day long, as we put the cash in the workers pay packets, we sang Abbey Road from start to finish over and over. Working full time in a wages office must be incredibly boring. I like to think we put a few smiles on faces in the time we were there.

Cheers

Ian