RCA ba-25 6386 vari-mu compressor schematic / PRR synopsis

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ToobieSnack

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
493
hey I just got e-mailed the RCA ba-25 6386 vari-mu compressor schematic..
This has proven to be an extremely rare bird....I have been searching for over a year now.
that's how I found this forum.
anyone interesting in dicussing the design?
how about a clone? and some PCB making?
I might be able to be connvinced to reverse my ba-25 for a scan of the PCB.
anway it was sent in the e-mail as a clipping ...I am trying to convert to jpeg and I will post it if anyone is interested.
later
ts
 
GREAT! jacob and david

Jacob gld see you in on this discussion...
was that your DIY temple we saw pics of at the Brewery?
If so ...you are one hell of a DIY man....much repect...much repect

I have been busy with some posting and I have promised to up pics of my new RCA oops TCA 74b (hehe) it's an RCA 74b ribbon mic clone.

looking forward to a nice discusion group on this one.

Please continue to shout out "i'm in" others who are interested.

I WILL post it as soon as I can get a few other things done.
thanks
ts
 
I´m in too...

in the meantime:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23793&item=7320186292&rd=1


steff
 
steffen nice to see "your in"
yeah that's my friend here in NC ...he is the one who so kindly sent me the schematic.... i very much hope he will become a member here at the forum....he is a guru for sure....there is a mutimillion dollar ...."world class" studio being built in Lenoir NC (another friend of mine) and he swears by him....sending him anything from His BA-6a to his Fairchild 670..you can be assured anything this guy sells on ebay is tweaked to the max for sure .... a great guy too.

Even so nice as to post a mod in his ebay ad....I'll grab that quote here in a bit.

later ts


PS i'm gonna take a lil typing/computer break and i should have this up within an hour or so.


PPS so who else is in?
 
ok sorry jacob of course I am also happy to see you too.

and I must also say Steffen what a kick ass avatar...cool!

ok took a break had a beer
:sam:
a scooby snack
toobiesnack4.JPG


and now i will get this pic to my upload site and post gimme 5 mins

i din't intend for this to be a tease or invoke any spirit of "anal lag" (hehe pun intended) into this compressor discussion.
I just posted as soon as I read my email becuase I was o excited.

BRB
ts
 
okey dokey


let the discussion begin ...here is the schematic of this rare bird.

RCA%20BA-25.JPG


enjoy...glad to offer this for everyone.
later
ts

PS CJ this one has some really nice trafo's ...... looking forward to your input here.
 
thanx toobie!

hmmm...the phase splitter at the input seems to be worth a dicussion.

the gain/output stage (V3,V4,V5) reminds me of the pultec eqp-1 amp, except the paralleled triodes (for lower o/p impedance?) maybe the sowter eqp output replacement xformer can work in this circuit? have one here....

for cheapo testing the input xformer can be omitted, the phase splitting is done by V1...

steff
 
Nice...I was wondering what might be a good transfromer for this unit.
I will unrack mine tomorrow and get some pics and numbers off the trafo's.
I'm pretty much a newbie and i don't guess I NEED to know how this works ... i could build one ...like a robot....but it is interesting to know.
If I could understand a little about it's operation I might get brave enough to pull the PCB on the one I have here for cloning purposes...
It looks simple enough for a newbie discussion....
Will someone please
school me....you know ... like a little walk through of what is happening here. i would so much appreciate it. just like ten min. of guru time plz. :grin:
all info is good.....a nice little synopsis would be great!
thanks for the reference to the pultec guys i'll have to look at that one and try to see the similarities.

Yes, but the tertiary feed back winding isn`t used.

what is this? I have never even heard this word before..."tertiary"

as always all kind comments suggestions and help are sincerely appreciated.
thanks
ts
 
V1 is an amplifier.

V2 is an amplifier.

V3 is an amplifier.

V4 V5 is a power output stage. It uses push-pull parallel because this box has a HIGH rated output: it may have been asked to drive long lines in high-RF fields with heavy line-EQ networks. +30dBm was routine on somewhat beefier broadcast limiters.

V1 gain is pretty much constant, and it also derives push-pull signals from the single-ended input (transformer and gain pot).

V2 is a variable gain amplifier. Any amplifier will lose gain as you change bias to a lower DC current. In most amplifiers you don't want that. Here, R11 R12 go to a varying DC voltage which can reduce V2 gain.

V3 V4 V5 are all tied together in negative feedback with R31 R21 R32 R24, so we can treat this as a single stage.

V6 rectifier compares the negative peaks of the output voltage to the positive voltage on R47 wiper. When output voltage exceeds the set level, the excess ends up on V2's grids, in a direction to reduce its gain. That's how it limits.

If the control voltage followed the peaks, we would just be clipping. What we really want to do is: if peaks are high, drop the gain quick, if peaks are not high let the gain rise slowly. V6 diode action and R40 C16 R39 appear to set the different time constants.

What is really exceptional is that the control voltage also appears on coupling caps C3 C5 C4 C6 via the high-value R11 R12. So we really have a complex multi-step 3-pole attack time constant. And the dirty fact is: C3 C4 must pass bass, which means attack time constant must be slower than bass waves. Up around 50mS. That is slow enough to allow audible distortion on sudden transients. And it is locked into the design. Other similar designs manage to avoid this tradeoff and can have much faster attack times. I presume this was more a safety limiter than a "sound effect", though the combination of clipped attack and slow limiting may have application in highly processed music.

Limiting level is a function of several voltages. V7 supplies a stable voltage to those points.

Connect a true VU meter to chassis connector pins 7 and 3. Switch S1 reads current in each tube; they should all be nearly the same indication. If not, note which tube reads "different" and schedule a tube swap when the radio station goes off the air for the night. A true-VU meter from pin 5 to 3 will indicate amount of gain reduction.

Overall gain is VERY high, possibly 10,000 or 80dB. It may actually be mike-input. But I suspect they expected you to pad the input according to your local levels. For modern studio use, you might even swap the primary and secondary on T1: this gives a more manageable gain of 40dB and a hi-Z input.

Intended output limiting level is around +18dBm. You can trim R47 for lower level but the limiting action will be very soft. For studio use, you will probably want a pad on the output, so it can run hard without smoking your inputs.

Frankly, this beast is strange even within its genre.
 
PRR thanks soooo much for your thorough synopsis...
I think I just got a new brain cell ...lol ...
(that's a funny saying I have .... it can also be used as: hey ...get a brain cel...ya know think about it ...and of course as we all know you can't actually get new brain cells)
I will be getting/using many new brain cells from this post.... again 1000 thanks

I'm also glad there was something a little interesting for you and it wasn't so simple , as to be boring.

I'm gonna re-read this about ten times and see how much I can learn.

PRR you are such a wonderful asset here at the forum....
3 cheers for PRR......or hey.... 3 beers too :sam: :sam: :sam:

thanks
ts
 
nice block diagram to illustrate prr's description here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23793&item=7322239569&rd=1
 
Rob
thanks for the additional info...that is the block diagram from waltzing bear...I have know about this and still I was looking for the schemo...now I finally have it...:grin:...t
he block diagram is a nice addition to this post though...so I wil host it and post it...gimme a bit...i was going to get some of the text from that ebay listing...ther was a mod for this unit there too.

thanks
ts
 
I need a 6386 tube for this unit.
I have been looking at 6386 prices and I think i'd like to try this Manley tbar mod I have heard about..
can anyone offer a diagram of how to do this?
....remmy i'm a newbie so I hope this is simple. :grin:
I am really lookin forward to getting this unit fired up...these ribbon mics would love this gain PRR speaks of... a compressor that would also double as a mic pre/compressor ...now that's what I need...
as alway all kind comments, help and suggestions sincerely appreciated
thanks
ts
 
another request for a T bar type mod daigram

simplified for a newbie

is it here in the forum soome where?
I can't find it... please help :sad:

thanks
ts
 
hey i just got my 6386 tube for this unit ... :grin: thanks wilbee :grin:
i am a little scared to plug it into the unit ... being the WORLDS MOST EXPESIVE TUBE and all ..
is it possible to damage this tube?
wht can i check to be sure?
i am pretty excited to have it and can't wait ti see if my ba25 is gonna be OK.
all help is sincerely appreciated .
later
ts
 

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