upgrade PSU's for Focusrite Blue series/SONTEC

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and not a DIY'er so I apologize if anything comes across as crude.

I have a couple of Focusrite Blue processors... A 315 MKII EQ and a 330
compressor.

Anytime I engage a "function" on either unit, the big red "IN" button LED dims momentarily. Fuse problems were suggested and eliminated as a cause

I have asked around and have found that the general consensus is that the power supplies are "current scavenged". I have used identical units at
NYC's fine Sterling Sound studios and theirs don't dim and sound noticeably better (cleaner, more headroom, less noise).

Has anyone had exprience with this?

Do I need a higher rated PSU?
Maybe a higher spec transformer? Lundahl? LL7902?
Other options? Focusrite will not release schematics and I want some more info before I start messing about

While on topic I'd like to upgrade the PSU and Transformer on my SONTEC MES432 C equalizer. Any thoughts? The unit is in perfect working order but I can't help but wonder if there's something more I can get out of it?

I realize that some warning to me might be in order...


Phil Demetro
The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
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hey phil-

without directly addressing your comments Id just add a general statement in regards to starting out. Dont fix whats not broken (re:sontec) unless you know you are going to make a positive change. When I first got confident about building stuff after long time tinkering, after reading ad naseum posts online about the NEED to change old electrolytic caps, I went and recapped most of the stuff in my studio, which is all old vintage gear. Making a long story short, sonically, only a very small percentage of stuff was improved with new caps and I wound up putting a lot of old caps back into stuff simply because they sounded better. Sounds like your focusrite migth have some issues, but take some of the stuff you read with a grain of salt, there's a big difference between "improved power supply" and "improved power supply by a dude with 20 years of experience who knows the little nuances of these things to actually make a difference". Im a total newbie and learned that lesson hard... When you go digging and swapping components and stuff, make sure you can actually hear a difference. Its easy to convince yourself that after you've worked on something for four hours that your new caps and stuff have made a positive improvement, especially after reading some advice which may or may not be hype. Dont throw away the parts you've removed for a few weeks just so you are sure that your improvement is just that.

learn from my mistakes....

the guys here will steer you in the right direction though!

dave

look...

Just my opinion here...


the 315 and 330 are fairly new units right?

I think if they are exhibiting something that doesnt seem right then I would send them back to focusrite for servicing. On the other hand.... if the light is "dim" but your not hearing/observing any problems sonicly then I would leave em alone...

unfortunately focusrite is not what they used to be... its all about profit lines and *cost effective* products...

Dont go fiddeling about with them... especially if they dont need it and you dont have the schems.

Figure it this way... if BOTH of them are showing the same thing then I would roll the dice that all is and will be ok...

do your self a favor... keep the lids closed on these :green:

Thanks for your input!
Actually these Focusrite Blue units are a few years old now and are discontinued as far as I know. Either too expensive to make or they sold as many as they were going to sell.

I do appreciate the gravity of the warning(s) as they things are valuable and in the case of the Sontec, irreplaceable!

I'm still going to forge ahead, though!

Thanks!

Phil Demetro
LACQUER CHANNEL, Toronto

Did you check the line voltage?

Switchmode PSU.. argghh :shock:

Nuffin' is holy for me. If I could mod a Sontec, Focusrite, U47, Neve 1073, SSL 9K to better suit my needs and idea of how things should sound, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't have a single peice of gear that's not modded to some extend.

Focusrite is definitely not the pinnacle of engineering. I haven't seen the blue ones, but isn't that just repackaged red? I've seen those and the ISA series, nothing to write home about. I'd mod 'em!

If you really want to hot rod the Focusrite, and Sontec power supplies, look into installing some Walt Jung Super regulators. Stay tuned to this board, and I will be publishing a document with the super reg circuit and an express PCB layout for it. If your're not into DIY, then I wouldn't really recommend doing the job yourself though.

Do you have schematics for the focusrite gear???? It's possible that the LED's run off a completely different power supply than the audio path does (or at least a different regulator).

Cheers,

Kris

I think you misunderstood me. And it's not a nice thing to quote chopped sentences..

I said; "Focusrite is definitely not the pinnacle of engineering. I haven't seen the blue ones, but isn't that just repackaged red"

Are you sure the comp isn't very close to a red? I've got this info from someone I know quite well.

Also, I never said they were ISAs either. I said I've looked into ISAs (and reds) and they're not anything to get exited about.

Lastly, I didn't say that phild should go ahead and mod the PSU. I said I would do it. Mod it, not necessarely the PSU...

My only point is really, that all gear can be modded to suit ones needs better. But you have to know what you're doing, sure.

I've used the Jung regulator (and it's clones or whatever you should call 'em, mostly Borbely designs) and they're vatly superior to ordinary Vregs. I'd expect quite a sonic improvement.

The kits makes it somewhat easier..

A quote from thethrillfactor at the slutz; "By the way the Blue 230 is really the original Red 3 with a different color" & "I've been mixing through a Blue 230 for almost 6-7 years"

So he ought to know then.. I tried the red many years ago and I too was informed it was the same as a blue..

I dunno bouth the EQ.

I wouldn't be surprised if one were to find that the power supply in the Sontec were not to far from a "super regulated" topology (well the +/- 24V anyway) of some description.

Click to expand...

Somehow, I doubt it. The Jung super regulator was first published in 1995, and later corrected in 2000 (compensating for startup problems and some stability issues with the op-amp). It's possible that the Sontec has a variant of the Sulzer topology (first published in 1980), but I really doubt it. I've never seen this topology used in any pro-audio gear. It's usually LM317s and a bunch of caps.

Cheers,

Kris

Okay, I forgot there was two comps, 230/330. Yeah, I'd think the Sontec would have some proper regulation, but I don't know. Maybe the cloners do? It is rather old isn't it?

I think you're better off selling all of it and getting some really nice B%hringer equipment. Now that's the pinnacle of engineering and quality construction. Lights don't dim either. :wink:

Pinnacle of reverse engineering perhaps? :wink: True, lights don't dim, but the music does :twisted:

Couldn't it be fun if we could get Uli Boringer to join us? :green:

Thanks all for the useful info and scolding!

I appreciate those who take the "gear is sacred" approach as I , too, have an extra special helping of respect - I remember only too well how much I paid for all this stuff!

I posted this topic on Prodigy because there is obviously a heavy-duty brain trust going on here. But not being a DIY'er, I see this forum as a bit like the local library without having to get lost on my way to the electronics section.

I am fairly new to modifying my equipment but have had great results on my Neve mastering console. I changed the tantalums and opamps (5532's to 604's, IIRC). All mods have been properly documented and all parts saved in case I change my mind or want to sell it...

I believe that i can clarify some of the focusrite questions.
I have owned several of these: the ISA215/RED pre/Producer pack/Blue.

The ISA and RED are very similar. The ISA being a bit darker, tougher, ballsier. The RED seemed more "linear" if that means anything. It sounds smooth. It's a great sounding unit.

AFAIK, the 230 is a repacked version of the EARLIEST Red 3 - which had a few more switches unlike the modern version with pots. They should sound very similar... but you know how different things can be even model to model. My old producer pack ISA430 sounded nothing like my ISA215. And it was supposed to be exact! Even after having serviced 2 Neve 32087 EQ modules (one by John Klett and the other by geoff Tanner) the sound difference between the two was not subtle. Who knows?

To answer DR. Fankencopters' perceptive question about the LED's I have this from Focusrite themselves....

"The LEDs and relays are powered from a 5v power rail which is supplied
from a different transformer secondary winding (white pair of wires) to that
which supplies the audio +/-15v rails."

thanks also for the JUNG regulator suggestion... It's so interesting to see how individual parts can impact the total sound.
Thanks again,

Phil Demetro
The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
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