Tascam MSR-16 Advice Needed

[g9builder]

Hi,

Has anybody either got, knowledge of using a Tascam MSR-16 1/2 " or repairing one?

I recently acquired one and it is in very good condition cosmetically. Mechanically all transport functions work properly and all tracks record and playback audio. I also have a very indepth service manual that came with the machine and a few reels of tape.

The query I have is with the sound quality of recording. As I have never owned one of these before I do not know what the quality should be with this machine if all is working ok. I have never owned a tape machine before (I have recordd on them before but at other studios years ago).

I have only used the machine so far to bounce tracks down from my protools system for testing and I wanted to know if my findings are normal or if there would appear to be a problem with the machine.

Firstly,

When recording into protools from the machine. If I have an blank reel of tape on the machine and
record into protools there is basically no noise at all or hum.

If I am playing back recorded tracks into protools I have noise.
If the dbx noise reduction is enabled there is a very slight hum. I have no tape hiss at all and the hum is small, When soloing a channel it is hardly noticable but once all 16 channels are playing you can hear the hum.

If the dbx is off the hum dissapears but of course i get horrible tape hiss.!!

I have found that basically this machine is unusable without the noise reduction enabled. But is it normal for the dbx unit to introduce a hum into the recording on this machine.


If I set all tracks to record ready as soon as you engage the dbx you hear the hum. Otherwise the unit is silent. ?

I know there are much better tape machines availiable. I do like the sound of what this machine does - especially on drums and bass but I then find myself with a hum to deal with !

Any help/advice greatly received.

Cheers

Ian

 

[pucho812]

have you calibrated/aligned the tape machine since you owned it? As for the hum, depending on age of capacitors, a recap may be in order.

 

[g9builder]

Hi Pucho,

Thanks for the reply. No I haven't calibrated or aligned it yet. It does have details on how to do this in the manual so it is on the list but the hum was the main issue for me at present.  I assume if the hum is only when the dbx is engaged that the dbx boards would be the first things to look at in respect of recapping?

Without the hum I would be pretty happy with the sound from this machine.

How easy is the calibration/alignment procedure? Do you need any special tools for this?

Regards

 

[MagnetoSound]

You might recap the PSU in the dbx unit.

I have found that basically this machine is unusable without the noise reduction enabled.

You may be right about that. Personally I wouldn't use a 1/2" 16 track for anything at all. You are working on the equivalent of a compact cassette, albeit at higher speed.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but better to say it now perhaps.

 

[pucho812]

You might recap the PSU in the dbx unit.

I have found that basically this machine is unusable without the noise reduction enabled.

You may be right about that. Personally I wouldn't use a 1/2" 16 track for anything at all. You are working on the equivalent of a compact cassette, albeit at higher speed.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but better to say it now perhaps.

true the professional standard is 1/8 of an inch per track with exceptions like 24 track 2" and 1/2" 2 track. All that aside the machine will perform better and sound better with a proper taper alignment.

 

[pucho812]

You might recap the PSU in the dbx unit.

I have found that basically this machine is unusable without the noise reduction enabled.

You may be right about that. Personally I wouldn't use a 1/2" 16 track for anything at all. You are working on the equivalent of a compact cassette, albeit at higher speed.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but better to say it now perhaps.

true the professional standard is 1/8 of an inch per track with exceptions like 24 track 2" and 1/2" 2 track. All that aside the machine will perform better and sound better with a proper machine alignment.

 

[g9builder]

Thanks for the advice - |I'd better bet the manual out and read up about the alignment process!! I will check the dbx cards also,

Thanks for the help.

 

[analogguru]

You might recap the PSU in the dbx unit.

Again this recap-mania - if it would be true, there would explode thousands of radios and TV-sets every day.

First of all I would check for ground loops.  Try it with only one channel connected.

 

[g9builder]

analogue guru,

Hi Yes I have done this - when I first heard the hum I tried several ways of recording signals etc such as -10db +4db / dbx off/dbx on etc - connected straight from machine to 192 interface or via patchbay. The only thing that introduced the noise was switching the dbx noise reduction units on. They are in banks of 8 (tracks 1-8 and 7-16) the bank for 7-16 is slightly more noisier than the bank for 1-8.  To be honest if you are only recording 4 tracks you cannot really hear the hum - it is there but very low but as soon as you turn on each further channel the noise builds up until it is noticable.

Thanks for the reply - I have read elsewhere that recapping this machine makes a difference also in the main powersupply and seperate audio channels. I only want to do the minimum though required to remove this hum?

 

[analogguru]

You live in the UK, so you (insanely) will have earth on many power cables.  In your setup, is there more than one earth connected on the units in use ?  If yes, use only one and isolate the others.  That´s the most common sources for hum in asymmetrical audio setups.  BTW, in the 80´s I earned a lot of money only by the proper use of isolation tape - like a magician.

 

[pucho812]

You might recap the PSU in the dbx unit.

Again this recap-mania - if it would be true, there would explode thousands of radios and TV-sets every day.

First of all I would check for ground loops.  Try it with only one channel connected.

I can't show numbers to support the claim of tv's and radios blowing up everyday or numbers to support that they don't. I haven't bothered to really care. I can say that this re-cap mania is far from some sort of mania. Experience dictates that caps have a lifespan and will eventually start to  fail or at minimum not hold anything close to their value. This is especially found in electrolytic capacitors which  dry out and are often use to filter power rails. In return  this causes equipment to hum.  This isn't always the case but more often then not, replacing electrolytic capacitors does reduce if not eliminate hum allthgether on a unit . The fact that the hum is not isolated to one channel of noise reduction shows evidence that it is related to something further up in the chain and the one constant to all the noise reduction modules/channels is a power supply so a recap is not a mania as you so put it, but it is highly suggested.

 

[CJ]

i have the same machine,

i was told by a pro audio guy that the DBX really sucks so it is best to use it without and just eq the top off a bit,

i would recap the power supply, this will give you faster rewind and fast forward speed,

those caps get worked hard as the motors are pretty big,

i would not touch the alignment, but i would clean the heads about 5 times and demag them,

i would replace all the rubber in the tape path, these machines feature the gummy bear syndrome where one morning you will come out and see black goo dripping from the pinch roller, if you do not catch this right away, it gums up the whole tape path, Tascam still sells the rubber, or they is another guy selling his own pinch rollers,

i would recalibrate the take up adj, this will also speed up rewind time,

are any of your small track switches pushed in? this is a common problem and a real pain to fix, it involves taking the whole machine apart,

i would re-solder all the RCA I/O jacks on the back, the soldering was not so great here, so doing this can cut down on hum and get all the tracks at equal vol., then run all the RCA's out to a patch bay so you do not stress them all the time,

do not trust the bar graph displays too much, they are not the most accurate in the world, see what your max level is before distortion, i find that if you peg the bar graphs out you can get decent S/N figures, and you really want to peg them for bass, as the recording head roll off a bit on the low notes,

what did Kev say way back when, something like "no matter how much i worked on this machine, it would never be what i had hoped for" or something to that effect,

1/2 inch is tough, but there are machines that sound pretty good with 1/2-8 track, Ogami, is that the right name?

these boxes got a lot of work in the Jingles market, recording commercials, which does not require supreme fidelity, so do not expect to get Studer sound out of them, but with a little tweaking during the recording process, you can get a decent CD out of it,

check your plastic tape spools for cracks, this is another problem area, do not over tighten, maybe pick up a few spares from Tascam as you do not know how much longer they will be available.

you can make your own remote control by soldering up a cable to the D-Sub 24 output jack on the back, the logic works pretty good on there machines, RTZ, etc.

 

[g9builder]

CJ - thankyou for taking the time to reply in such detail - much appreciated. Are you still using it - if so what do you use it for and what sounds best on it?

I have the same machine,

i was told by a pro audio guy that the DBX really sucks so it is best to use it without and just eq the top off a bit, I have found that without the DBX engaged it really is way too noisey. Maybe I have anther problem with the machine?

i would recap the power supply, this will give you faster rewind and fast forward speed, Ok - might try this - rewind and fast forward are pretty good but I did think they should be faster.

those caps get worked hard as the motors are pretty big, Noted

i would not touch the alignment, but i would clean the heads about 5 times and demag them, have done this and demag them, did make a difference, and I clean the heads before use every time.

i would replace all the rubber in the tape path, these machines feature the gummy bear syndrome where one morning you will come out and see black goo dripping from the pinch roller, if you do not catch this right away, it gums up the whole tape path, Tascam still sells the rubber, or they is another guy selling his own pinch rollers, The pinch roller is fine - the rubber is in good condition.

i would recalibrate the take up adj, this will also speed up rewind time, Ok- will look at this.

are any of your small track switches pushed in? this is a common problem and a real pain to fix, it involves taking the whole machine apart, No they are all ok and working fine.

i would re-solder all the RCA I/O jacks on the back, the soldering was not so great here, so doing this can cut down on hum and get all the tracks at equal vol., then run all the RCA's out to a patch bay so you do not stress them all the time, Will check the soldering - they are already run out to a patchbay for this exact reason.!

do not trust the bar graph displays too much, they are not the most accurate in the world, see what your max level is before distortion, i find that if you peg the bar graphs out you can get decent S/N figures, and you really want to peg them for bass, as the recording head roll off a bit on the low notes, Maybe this is why i found it too noisey without DbX engaged. I was shooting as per the manual for +3db on the meters. - will try and see - thanks

what did Kev say way back when, something like "no matter how much i worked on this machine, it would never be what i had hoped for" or something to that effect, I do not expect Studer quality and actually I am quite happy with the sound for drums and guitar (which is what I want to use it for mainly) - What would be really nice would be a machine with 3 heads so i could go direct from the repro head into protools  - without having to bounce backwards and forwards from tape to my DAW - any suggestions?

1/2 inch is tough, but there are machines that sound pretty good with 1/2-8 track, Ogami, is that the right name?

these boxes got a lot of work in the Jingles market, recording commercials, which does not require supreme fidelity, so do not expect to get Studer sound out of them, but with a little tweaking during the recording process, you can get a decent CD out of it,

check your plastic tape spools for cracks, this is another problem area, do not over tighten, maybe pick up a few spares from Tascam as you do not know how much longer they will be available. One of the ones that came with the unit was cracked - have purchased a new set already!

you can make your own remote control by soldering up a cable to the D-Sub 24 output jack on the back, the logic works pretty good on there machines, RTZ, etc. 

 

[CJ]

i use it for recording the whole band, the best results are when no mixer is used, just mic preamps straight in, maybe a direct box with and without a mic preamp after it,

check your rollers for slop also, you can get those from Tascam also, but they are $$$,

are you using new tape? the brown side goes to the head, the dark side out, i hope! 

tape tension might affect hiss, this is adjustable with the pots on the board,

i hear hiss on Led Zeplin albums so don't stress it too much, listen to the beginning of The Immigrant Song,