Audio Cable used for CAT 5 /6?

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Anybody that connects a mic through 100m of cable is a fool looking for trouble, or a desperate man.


I know plenty of live venue's where the cable run from the stageboxes to the controlroom exeed 100m lenght.
Actually, I think this goes for most large venue's.

You could place your mixer first row and sit with the VIPS and use short cable runs... but I don't think that would be much appreciated.

Now if you are really looking for trouble, try to set up 40 wireless connections in a city like Amsterdam 😀
 
I know plenty of live venue's where the cable run from the stageboxes to the controlroom exeed 100m lenght.
Actually, I think this goes for most large venue's.
In the 20th century: I am not aware of large venues where a permanent analogue cabling exists for concerts, and being used. It is certainly used for speech and sport commentary.
In most cases, the mixer is installed in the main area, typically 30-50 meters from the stage, with temporary cabling. Most of the times by a hire company.
The only cases I know where the permanent cables are used is when the budget does not allow or the sound engineer has not enough clout to impose a better solution That's why is said fool or desperate.

In the 21st century: Now, the existence of digital stage boxes is a real game changer.
You could place your mixer first row and sit with the VIPS and use short cable runs... but I don't think that would be much appreciated.
And not sensible. The mixer should be far enough to capture the room sound as well as the direct sound, in order to have the same perception as the public. Something he can't do from a sound booth or the front row.
Now if you are really looking for trouble, try to set up 40 wireless connections in a city like Amsterdam 😀
I don't know. what is so special in Amsterdam, that makes it so difficult? I think it's difficult anywhere, but there are enough examples of working systems. But running 40 wireless mics seems unrealistic; I can't really imagine the need for so many. The typical challenge is the total number of wireless links, thar means, in addition to mics, IEM's and comms.
 
44/16 or 44/24 - makes no difference - the data / bit rate is the same with same number of bits.
In reality the RS422/485 receivers now (and for a long time past) available do a great job in terms of data recovery even with severely impaired data eye-patterns.
I recall that even IEC950 (spdif) transmission can be robust through reels of 'ordinary' unbalanced cable in terms of bit error. Far beyond its published spec'.
Cable/Data induced jitter is another issue but not really an issue if you are reclocking or simply moving data.
Physics says that things will be tougher at higher sampling rates but it won't 'fall off a cliff'.

On that note, as part of a personal project, i can confirm an ADAT stream works perfectly fine through at least 30m / 100ft of plain ol' microphone cable (Cordial CMK222 and Neutrik XLR connectors), made up of three 10m / 30ft cables.

In all fairness, i used some SN75LBC179 RS485 transceivers as well as Ethernet transformers for galvanic isolation at both ends. Driver through a 100nF cap to the transformer "primary", and a 100 ohm termination resistor on the "secondary" side of the receiver end transformer. Perfect? Of course not. But "if it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid"(?) 😁
 
I use a pair of appsys.ch boxes to transport 32 channels of audio each way (4X ADAT in, 4 X ADAT out) over UTP5 at up to a 100 meters.

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I could be wrong, but i believe the original question of this thread was about transmitting digital audio / data over (analog) audio cabling.

Digital audio over "digital" cabling is quite "duuuh" (obvious, no mystery or unknowns), just a matter of formatting the bits properly ;)
 
On that note, as part of a personal project, i can confirm an ADAT stream works perfectly fine through at least 30m / 100ft of plain ol' microphone cable (Cordial CMK222 and Neutrik XLR connectors), made up of three 10m / 30ft cables.
But IIRC an ADAT stream is optical ?
 
The stream is just digital data, 1's and 0's, and they don't really care about the medium they're conveyed through ;)

My thought was to see whether a more robust, more affordable and more widespread medium than TOSLINK cables could be used, for transmitting 8ch of 44.1/48k audio, at a distance. In as simple and cheap a way as possible, "of course" 😁
 
So you live somewhere, where optic cable is cheaper than 70 cents a meter? Neverminding the diy-ability of making your own cables to whatever lengths you wish...

But either way, that still leaves the robustness and availability arguments (for me, anyway) (y)
 
The stream is just digital data, 1's and 0's, and they don't really care about the medium they're conveyed through ;)
What? So why do you think seasoned audiophiles prefer that kind of cables?
https://www.analogueseduction.net/d...gle-75-double-crown-digital-cable-75-ohm.htmlTheir sheer presence in the room makes listening to music a new experience, even if not connected. 😁
And being stereo, only one is needed for transporting two channels, which is good for both the planet and the music. Less is best, innit?
Joking, of course...
 
So you live somewhere, where optic cable is cheaper than 70 cents a meter? Neverminding the diy-ability of making your own cables to whatever lengths you wish...

But either way, that still leaves the robustness and availability arguments (for me, anyway) (y)

The optical I buy is around 12€ for 15 meter. Say, 3,5€ for 1,5m. Terminated, of course. This is the shop I ordered the latest batch from:

https://www.allekabels.nl/searchresult.php?keyword=toslink
I've never found a reason to use more expensive ones. They break too. You need to keep them out of the hands of the average roadie.

I've had cheaper mic cable, but the one I use today, is close to a euro per meter, unterminated. I'll admit it's a lot more rugged than the optical ;-)

Mind you, the biggest batch I buy is a 100 m roll. And that lasts for a few years.
 
I don't know. what is so special in Amsterdam, that makes it so difficult? I think it's difficult anywhere, but there are enough examples of working systems. But running 40 wireless mics seems unrealistic; I can't really imagine the need for so many. The typical challenge is the total number of wireless links, thar means, in addition to mics, IEM's and comms.
It's not uncommon at all these days. Medium-sized broadway shows can have 40-50 wireless headset mics on-stage easily, often in addition to IEMs and wireless COMM. It's becoming harder to manage every day with bandwidth auctions and 5G towers going up everywhere.
 

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