Is there any new mic you can buy or a kit to build that sounds as good as a vintage U87i?

[living sounds]

I listened to A LOT of comparisons, have build (other) mics myself before and I recently got a U87ai.

Long story short - none of the clones I've heard so far sounds as natural, effortless, balanced. And the reissue doesn't either.

The clones don't have the perfect stiff Neumann response (they sound various degrees of fizzy, like ringing, even the good ones like the BeezNeez are not free of that). Is there any manufacturer who actually nailed that Neumann quality? The U87ai has it, of course (thanks to the Neumann capsule) but it sounds more pinched, aggressive (something you cannot fully compensate with EQ).

It's hard to describe the quality, it's just the sound I know from countless records. Smooth and silky, yet open and clear. A U67 without the tube color.

 

[vintagelove]

I would have to say the capsule is where the magic is.

I have a vintage 87, I also have the innertube tube87 insert. I can say for sure that the SS guts aren't where the good stuff is (the tube just plants the vocal right at the front of a mix). So, if you found a genuine capsule, and put it in a clone or better yet a diy tube mic, it will pr be great.

As for a new mic, I'm a big fan of the JZ vintage 67. Interestingly, they updated the capsule from the original design, and now it employs their "golden drop" technology. They are really on to something. It has the voice of a LDC, but with the speed/transient response of a small diaphragm condenser. It's great on vocals, but it's a really stellar mic on acoustic instruments, and although I haven't worked with a drummer since Covid, I suspect they are amazing overheads due to their speed and voicing. That voicing, combined with the transient response, and the freaky low noise floor, make for a truly stand out microphone.


This is a pretty good representation of its sound. A rich, reedy midrange with good sparkle on top and a full but tight bottom.

 

[soliloqueen]

I listened to A LOT of comparisons, have build (other) mics myself before and I recently got a U87ai.

Long story short - none of the clones I've heard so far sounds as natural, effortless, balanced. And the reissue doesn't either.

The clones don't have the perfect stiff Neumann response (they sound various degrees of fizzy, like ringing, even the good ones like the BeezNeez are not free of that). Is there any manufacturer who actually nailed that Neumann quality? The U87ai has it, of course (thanks to the Neumann capsule) but it sounds more pinched, aggressive (something you cannot fully compensate with EQ).

It's hard to describe the quality, it's just the sound I know from countless records. Smooth and silky, yet open and clear. A U67 without the tube color.

many differences are body-related in my experience. you could try building one yourself and making sure the body is well-damped, make sure the capsule is offset from center, maybe some light foam in the headbasket. i know OPR did like 15 revisions on headbasket stuff before he felt he got it right for his 87. the answer, generally, is "no" because to make a mic exactly like the u87, you'd need to just make a u87. everything contributes to that impression of "correctness" you get from hearing a real u87, and it's not really about microphone "goodness" so much as assembling all of the specifics and hitting that spot in your brain you have from years of hearing the mic, you know?

 

[living sounds]

Thanks guys!

The JZ vintage 67 sounds interesting, but to be honest, it's a very different sound from the U87 IMO. And the vintage U87i sounds great without a tube in it.

I do not think it is just what we are used to, but objectively better in that it closer resembles the source, works better in a mix, takes EQ easier etc.

This comparison between the U87i and the U87ai examplifies the qualities of the vintage mic:



I prefer it on every source. Which modern mic sounds like this?

 

[LevinGuitar]

Guess no one would try, but how about change the de-emphasis cap (in a AI mic) to original value? Not many more changes between them besides a higher polarization and bias voltage and slightly different capsule tuning (as I have been told).

For a clone, buying a real K67/87 in a new or great shape would be too expensive since the used complete AI mics are not that far in price (to try that cap mod).

 

[Purplenoise]

My very first diy was a D87 ( vintage mic pcb) with beesneez k87. It sounds scary close to our vintage 70s u87. Just a touch brighter..like 1db at 10k which I could easily tailor but I liked it so left as is. If I wanted to be very picky I would say that no other clone capsule has that detailed and unrestricted midrange of the Neumann capsule but some get really close.

 

[craigmorris74]

Heard the Serrano 87? Lots of engineers are very satisfied with it.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

My very first diy was a D87 ( vintage mic pcb) with beesneez k87. It sounds scary close to our vintage 70s u87. Just a touch brighter..like 1db at 10k which I could easily tailor but I liked it so left as is. If I wanted to be very picky I would say that no other clone capsule has that detailed and unrestricted midrange of the Neumann capsule but some get really close.

I can't imagine that's very perceptible and may even be within tolerance of the difference between two U87s.

I listened to A LOT of comparisons, have build (other) mics myself before and I recently got a U87ai.

Long story short - none of the clones I've heard so far sounds as natural, effortless, balanced. And the reissue doesn't either.

The clones don't have the perfect stiff Neumann response (they sound various degrees of fizzy, like ringing, even the good ones like the BeezNeez are not free of that). Is there any manufacturer who actually nailed that Neumann quality? The U87ai has it, of course (thanks to the Neumann capsule) but it sounds more pinched, aggressive (something you cannot fully compensate with EQ).

It's hard to describe the quality, it's just the sound I know from countless records. Smooth and silky, yet open and clear. A U67 without the tube color.

There's a White Market thread for the Yuzu Audio 87 kits which have an HK87 capsule. If the capsules are anything like his HK12 it's probably gonna be a great mic.

 

[RuudNL]

Sold out and no immediate plan to get new kits back in stock.

 

[living sounds]

My very first diy was a D87 ( vintage mic pcb) with beesneez k87. It sounds scary close to our vintage 70s u87. Just a touch brighter..like 1db at 10k which I could easily tailor but I liked it so left as is. If I wanted to be very picky I would say that no other clone capsule has that detailed and unrestricted midrange of the Neumann capsule but some get really close.

BeezNeez has their own clone. It's close in frequency response, but doesn't reach the clarity of the Neumann. I listened to several comparisons.

 

[living sounds]

Heard the Serrano 87? Lots of engineers are very satisfied with it.

Yes, several comparisons, I don't understand why they like it so much. To my ears it sounds smeared compared to the Neumann.

I'm not trying to poo poo these mics. But I do hear pretty significant differences.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Sold out and no immediate plan to get new kits back in stock.

Are they sold out of the pre-built ones too?

EDIT: they did used to sell pre-built ones for like $200 extra. I guess they ran out, I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one

 

[Ricardus]

Show me some double blind test data and we can talk about this.

 

[hellofishy]

As good as seems subjective, but I have made some mics from microphone-parts.com and they sounded pretty amazing

 

[lightningbefore]

I assume you've probably already looked at this GS thread and heard the shootout there, but if not, it may help: 87 Mic Shootout - against Gunter Wagner Restored 70's Neumann U87i - Gearspace.com

 

[living sounds]

I assume you've probably already looked at this GS thread and heard the shootout there, but if not, it may help: 87 Mic Shootout - against Gunter Wagner Restored 70's Neumann U87i - Gearspace.com

Yes, I am basing my assumptions in part on the files from this thread. The restored 70s mic is in a class of its own, unfortunately.

 

[Purplenoise]

BeezNeez has their own clone. It's close in frequency response, but doesn't reach the clarity of the Neumann. I listened to several comparisons.

I don’t know what circuitry and transformer they used but that is important too besides the capsule. The truth is that no one so far succeeded to copy a Neumann capsule accurately and that is the most important part to get to that sound. In my 49,47,67 clones I use original Neumann capsules. I would for the 87 too but I rarely use it to justify the expense…I rarely use the real one too

 

[living sounds]

Yes, there is something about their capsules...

It's just so hard to believe that nobody else can manage it. They have been making them for so many decades now...

 

[Purplenoise]

Yes, there is something about their capsules...

It's just so hard to believe that nobody else can manage it. They have been making them for so many decades now...

Probably that one single ingredient that no chef shares haha

 

[living sounds]

Well, shouldn't it be measureable? What are the parameters that differ in the response vs. other manufacturers? It's quite a conundrum...