investigating the russian 6S6B-V tube

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rock soderstrom said:
A joke, really? Like your U67 clone PCB boards?
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Indeed a joke, It's a distorted picture of the original. I made it in 2 minutes. The microphone looks crazy. I redid the picture with Flea49 if that's less provocative.

As I stated in that thread the PCBs was a fun and inspiring DIY project intended for my own use, not a commercial project.

What's your view on selling:
- K47, M7, K87, K67 clones with the same name
- BV8, BV11, BV12 clones with the same name
- All of the commercial vintage microphone clones avaliable? Some of them almost perfect 1:1 of the originals. Most of them using a logo with the same shape and colour

I'm quite surprised that I get attacked in this way. I guess I'm naive. I'm posting with my real name with the intention to be humble in my comments and help other DIYers. If I fail or I am breaking some forum regulations let me know.
 
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tomas.borgstrom said:
What's your view on selling:
- K47, M7, K87, K67 clones with the same name
- BV8, BV11, BV12 clones with the same name
- All of the commercial vintage microphone clones avaliable? Some of them almost perfect 1:1 of the originals. Most of them using a logo with the same shape and colour
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This question can be answered very easy. Brand names and protected product names are taboo. The same applies to protected utility designs and the like. Examples would be a Fender headstock, the exact shape of a Gibson Les Paul etc.

The stupid argument that something is okay because others also violate it I have heard from you and others here before. It doesn't change the fact that much of what is produced in China is simply illegal. By the way, have fun with this kind of argumentation in court.

tomas.borgstrom said:
Indeed a joke, It's a distorted picture of the original. I made it in 2 minutes. The microphone looks crazy.
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I first thought the image display plugin of the forum software was distorting your photo for whatever reason. Thus I assumed a "normal" Neumann clone body.

tomas.borgstrom said:
I'm quite surprised that I get attacked in this way. I guess I'm naive. I'm posting with my real name with the intention to be humble in my comments and help other DIYers. If I fail or I am breaking some forum regulations let me know.
Click to expand...
I am surprised that some like you, with your musical and technical background, gets close to such activities and also asks such questions. Just imagine that Neumann is your company.

Would you welcome it if Chinese companies industrially copy your product optically down to the packaging and the manual? I'm not saying you're promoting this type of business but that's happened here several times, with links and instructions on how to order the "hot" shit.

I am not responsible for the rules here in the forum, I am only guided by my ethics.

I think you get around in the world, next time you come to Berlin, we could visit Neumann together, if possible. It can change your perception if you get to know the people behind the company name.
 
tomas.borgstrom said:
Indeed a joke, It's a distorted picture of the original. I made it in 2 minutes. The microphone looks crazy. I redid the picture with Flea49 if that's less provocative.

As I stated in that thread the PCBs was a fun and inspiring DIY project intended for my own use, not a commercial project.

What's your view on selling:
- K47, M7, K87, K67 clones with the same name
- BV8, BV11, BV12 clones with the same name
- All of the commercial vintage microphone clones avaliable? Some of them almost perfect 1:1 of the originals. Most of them using a logo with the same shape and colour

I'm quite surprised that I get attacked in this way. I guess I'm naive. I'm posting with my real name with the intention to be humble in my comments and help other DIYers. If I fail or I am breaking some forum regulations let me know.
Click to expand...
You never promoted selling anything, and even if you made 1:1 knockoff for personal use you would be still ok both legaly, and morally.
 
rock soderstrom said:
This question can be answered very easy. Brand names and protected product names are taboo. The same applies to protected utility designs and the like. Examples would be a Fender headstock, the exact shape of a Gibson Les Paul etc.

The stupid argument that something is okay because others also violate it I have heard from you and others here before. It doesn't change the fact that much of what is produced in China is simply illegal. By the way, have fun with this kind of argumentation in court.


I first thought the image display plugin of the forum software was distorting your photo for whatever reason. Thus I assumed a "normal" Neumann clone body.


I am surprised that some like you, with your musical and technical background, gets close to such activities and also asks such questions. Just imagine that Neumann is your company.

Would you welcome it if Chinese companies industrially copy your product optically down to the packaging and the manual? I'm not saying you're promoting this type of business but that's happened here several times, with links and instructions on how to order the "hot" shit.

I am not responsible for the rules here in the forum, I am only guided by my ethics.

I think you get around in the world, next time you come to Berlin, we could visit Neumann together, if possible. It can change your perception if you get to know the people behind the company name.
Click to expand...

The M49 was not invented by Neumann, it was licensed for production to them, the same with the k47. The earliest M49 units, prototyped by Maihak, were even somewhat different size and a different layout.

The subsequent variations are their work on top of that.

I don’t think there is any legal protections for most of these designs anymore, things designed by NWDR/IRT so long ago.

There are many cases where it’s clear one company is violating the trade dress of another. Maybe this one is worth getting upset about as well, but it seems far different to me.
 
kingkorg said:
You never promoted selling anything, and even if you made 1:1 knockoff for personal use you would be still ok both legaly, and morally.
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That's right, in private everyone can do what they want. But I can't really understand that either. You put all your knowledge and passion into a self-built microphone and then finally put a Neumann badge on it? I find that embarrassing, sorry.
 
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I guess everyone has a way of viewing things. For me it's no different than copying a design down to tiniest detail, and pretending you've done anything else than plagiarism. Sticking your own badge on it is just hypocrisy. Whatever badge, these are all just inexpensive knockoffs. Some sell them though for big bucks and advertise as their own products, using heritage of the original product as marketing material.
🤮🤮🤮🤮
 
GeorgeToledo said:
The M49 was not invented by Neumann, it was licensed for production to them, the same with the k47. The earliest M49 units, prototyped by Maihak, were even somewhat different size and a different layout.

The subsequent variations are their work on top of that.

I don’t think there is any legal protections for most of these designs anymore, things designed by NWDR/IRT so long ago.

There are many cases where it’s clear one company is violating the trade dress of another. Maybe this one is worth getting upset about as well, but it seems far different to me.
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Honestly, I can't see what your reasoning is supposed to tell me?

Product piracy is an essential problem for all companies involved. I don't think we should support it, regardless of who developed the M49 or M7.

The reality is that Chinese suppliers offer and sell industrially produced "Neumann" microphones (other manufacturers as well). We are not talking about one or two microphones here, they are coming off the production line in large numbers depending on demand. Part of the demand also arises in forums like here. There have already been attempts to organize a group buy for such fakes here. Others have presented these copies here and (indirectly) advertised the distribution channels. Not ok for me.
 
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rock soderstrom said:
This question can be answered very easy. Brand names and protected product names are taboo. The same applies to protected utility designs and the like. Examples would be a Fender headstock, the exact shape of a Gibson Les Paul etc.

The stupid argument that something is okay because others also violate it I have heard from you and others here before. It doesn't change the fact that much of what is produced in China is simply illegal. By the way, have fun with this kind of argumentation in court.
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Thanks for your input. I actually never said that I think it's ok to copy product names, logos, trademarks and patents. I don't put Neumann batches on my DIY. I think our opinions are not that far apart. I think the microphone clone industry has gone way too far. Many chinese products are as you say illegal and it's sad that Neumann can't do anything about it. They produce microphones with false logos and inside is cheap crap and a different circuit so they fool the costumers as well. I'm critical towards a lot of the legal products too. They use the names and looks of the vintage classics but the performance is often poor, the schematics and hardware are different so they to fool the uninformed buyer.

I have the highest respect for Neumann and their contribution to the history of microphones. Their work is second to none. Their capsules are still the best I've heard. I started with DIY many years before Neumann re-released their vintage tube microphones and there were generally very few commercial tube microphones on the market. If you couldn't afford the originals DIY was the only option. You reproduced a historical product not knowing that fifteen years later all of them could be bought from a palette of different producers, even Neumann themselves.

My apologies to all the readers with interest in the 6s6b-v that I managed to make this thread come completely off topic. Let's move on.
 
rock soderstrom said:
Back to the actual topic:

To make me even more unpopular 👋, here you can still buy 6s6b for 3€.

https://oppermann-electronic.de/html/rohren_russisch.html
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I honestly don't want to be a party pooper, but if the rumor is true Neumann is after all the stashed tubes and so are all the people commercially invested in mic business. It would have been wiser if this kind of info went under the radar. I do salute you for trying to help the DIY community!
 
kingkorg said:
I honestly don't want to be a party pooper, but if the rumor is true Neumann is after all the stashed tubes and so are all the people commercially invested in mic business. It would have been wiser if this kind of info went under the radar. I do salute you for trying to help the DIY community!
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Yes, I thought for a while about whether or not to disclose this source.

I have some 6S6b in stock for my projects and thought share one of your sources with the homies here.

I don't think the 6s6b stock at Oppermann electronic will survive next week. Just a guess, I have no idea how big their stock is.

Was that your 3€ source too? They also have many other soviet tubes at great prices.
 

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