GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Dynamic Processors => Topic started by: [silent:arts] on February 26, 2008, 02:21:11 PM

Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 26, 2008, 02:21:11 PM
the history of this optical tube compressor:
23.04.2005 Optical tube compressor (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=7031)
02.05.2005 Optical tube compressor discussion (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=7201)
21.03.2006 Optical Comp (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=14499)
28.05.2007 The Optical Comp Again (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22782)

for the PCB I would like to give some credits:
analag for the schemaic, gyraf for allowing me to use his G9 high voltage PSU, olafmatt for his heater PSU, kubi for improving everything.
kubi, bernbrue & jensenmann for beta testing.

resources for building the D-AOC PCB:
D-AOC Schematic (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/D-AOC_Schematic.pdf)
D-AOC component placement (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY//D-AOC/D-AOC_PCB-Overlay.pdf)
a first rough, uncompleted BOM with sources from germany (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/D-AOC_BOMv1D.pdf)
Solens and Power Transformer Source in Germany (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg324418#msg324418) (thanks to Jim50hertz)
WIMA MKP4s for the US (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg324453#msg324453) (thanks to jrfred453)
Farnell Order Codes (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg324500#msg324500) (thanks to MartyMart)
Parts for the US builders (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg326621#msg326621) (thanks to MikoKensington)

PSUs (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg317513#msg317513)
MODDING THE SLOPES (& THRESHOLD) (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg318801#msg318801)
INPUT TRANSFORMERS (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg320364#msg320364)
OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg321417#msg321417)
THE METERs (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg324585#msg324585)
HARDWIRE BYPASS PCB (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg325203#msg325203)
SOME VOLTAGES (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg330048#msg330048)

the kubi advanced version (http://audio.kubarth.com/daoc/)

some cool observations by alexc (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg638621#msg638621)

What are you using your D-AOC on? (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39689.0) ;)

finished units:
bernbrue inside (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg316793#msg316793) and outside (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg327124#msg327124)
kubi (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg322677#msg322677) & picture of the week (http://audio.kubarth.com/daoc/)
sinestaraudio (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg324824#msg324824)
dagoose half finished (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg327339#msg327339) and finished (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg330086#msg330086)
Infernal_Death inside (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg330167#msg330167)
[silent:arts] (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg335994#msg335994)
ChuckD (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg340769#msg340769)
mikeyB (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg345970#msg345970)
jrfred453 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg347281#msg347281)
maxheadroom (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg359295#msg359295)
Holger (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg359900#msg359900)
Holgers Kubi advanced version (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=31773.msg385387#msg385387)
MartyMart inside (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=31918.msg388215#msg388215) and outside (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg391014#msg391014)
AW_music (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32714.msg397864#msg397864)
seavote (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35539.msg436154#msg436154)
Lowfreq (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg448901#msg448901)
Silvas (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37166.msg457204#msg457204)
pucho812 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=38027.msg468514#msg468514)
Brizco (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg472419#msg472419)
flight (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg477407#msg477407)
jensenmann (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg483721#msg483721)
dingo (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg499278#msg499278)
flintan (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg503764#msg503764)
Audioman (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg534844#msg534844)
Holger #3 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg544066#msg544066)
zayance (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg552874#msg552874)
Peter A (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg555459#msg555459)
jsefer (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45921.0)
Scrappersa (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg619565#msg619565)
Hank Dussen (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg633921#msg633921)
alexc (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg635447#msg635447)
protools (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg644039#msg644039)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on February 26, 2008, 03:26:34 PM
Awesome how does this sucker sound? LA2A-ish?

-T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on February 26, 2008, 04:09:06 PM
many thanks for all your effort volker, and of course analag for the original idea and concept!

cheers
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: matta on February 26, 2008, 04:41:23 PM
Hey Volker,

Good call on this  :thumb:  

Can you add the Edcor Transformer models you used here for others to see and if you used an off the shelf power transformer, which one?

From what I gather based on the schematics you need 3 secondary windings.

Sec 1 = 220 - 250VAC 0.1A
Sec 2 = 9VAC 2.5A
Sec 3 = 9 -24VAC

Cheers

Matt
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 26, 2008, 05:04:53 PM
Matt,

you will get all this information before the group buy closes, and some more.
I just don't have the time post all information in one day.

Audio Transformers (I will post measurements of different transformers when I'm finished with it).

Bernd and I have Edcor XMS10K/600 at the output with no problems.
they have a slight rise in the Highs when measured, shouldn't be bad or can be tamed with termination.

the Input will have to wait at the moment, but it looks like nearly any 1:1 transformer can be used. waiting for Edcor WMS 10K:10K at the moment to proceed.

for the prototype I used a custom wound 250V 0.1A; 9V 2.5A, 24V0.5A transformer (since I used 24V relays).
I wont mention the manufactur now, since I had a phone call from him today where he asked why he gets so many "custom wound" transformer orders from all over europe with the same specs I used and all mention some forums (and I think Klaus doesn't know what this is).
I can understand his point, he is not very happy to wind the same transformer every third day and ship it individually.
berndbrue / me are working on this right now, either we should do a group buy for this transformer, or finding a shop willing to stock them.

PLEASE: anybody knows my transformer winder, DO NOT order a single transformer for this project there now. we don't want to loose this source. we will find a solution.

Will try to find time to do the PSU and power transformer instruction tomorrow,
thanks
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: matta on February 26, 2008, 05:12:21 PM
Hey Volker,

Totally understandable. I for one would LOVE to see a group buy on many of these things including the transformers. WIMA's are also hard to get here so maybe we can source some kind of Group buy on those as well.... hmm the possibilities are endless, LOL!

Thanks again for all the effort and to Analag for gifting us with a cool new 'none clone' project!

Cheers

Matt
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lofi on February 26, 2008, 05:15:50 PM
has Tat done a case for this yet? :wink:  hint
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 26, 2008, 05:27:34 PM
Quote from: "matta"
WIMA's are also hard to get here so maybe we can source some kind of Group buy on those as well....

the PCB is not limited to Wimas, even it was designed for Wima MKP4.
but kubi treated me a long time to put in more footprints ...
(drilling count increased a lot since he was involved)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on February 26, 2008, 06:13:45 PM
Hi mates,
before I report about my first experience with this tube compressor I would like to point out a few things:

- this is a very "open", not profit oriented project, it would be a real pity, if this was ripped off or commercialized in any way
- it´s not a clone of an already existing compressor
- we would like to encourage you to DIY (including case and frontpanel design), since projects like this one becoming quite rare nowadays. So let creativity take its course
- Analag provided a very unique and fascinating schematic and got the ball rolling more than a year ago. Volker spend much time in designing the pcb and will have a lot of work and hassle to provide you with the pcb.
- Kubi supported Volker with suggestions and improvement

Volker was so kind to send me a prototype pcb of Analags Opto Compressor for beta testing. I suppose that this came to his mind: When a guy like me, a musician with such a limited knowledge in electronics can built this compressor, than everybody can do it. (foolproof so to say) :grin:

The pcb
well, it´s in blue, my favourite color. It was a real pleasure to stuff this board. The component placement is an amazing artwork, there are footprints for capacitors with different spacings and size, so it´s very difficult to find WIMAS that do not fit. You´ll enjoy it.

The building process
very straight forward, besides vactrols and Solen Fast Caps mostly easy to get standard parts. I haven´t paid all the bills yet, but my subjective impression is that overall costs a very low for a tube project

Sound
first impression: very subtile, unobtrusive compression, you won´t get it slamming


I talk to much, here are some pictures:

 (http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_The_Raven_002.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_The_Raven_008.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_The_Raven_006.jpg)

more to come later

regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lofi on February 26, 2008, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: "bernbrue"

- we would like to encourage you to DIY (including case and frontpanel design), since projects like this one becoming quite rare nowadays. So let creativity take its course


is this me being told off? :grin:

I understand what you mean about creativity, but in the UK this cost lots. I can get a full case plus front panel from Tat for cheaper than i can get a local guy to make a front panel.

thats one pretty build you have there sir!! and am very pleased to hear that this will be subtle rather than smashing compression.

Thanks to everybody who has worked on this!!!!!

Iain
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mcfarlane_audio on February 27, 2008, 02:41:23 AM
im thinking about sending edcor in the states an email about the custom power xfmr, they sent me a sweet one for my federal vari mu project, should i hold off? do you have something clever on the way?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 27, 2008, 03:06:51 AM
no problem with Edcors if you want to organize something :thumb:
if they are 115 + 115 on the primary Tony could sell some in Europe for sure.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 28, 2008, 10:27:11 AM
Sorry if this is a bit premature but just scouting around to see whats available,

Does any one have a UK / EU source for the regulators?

LM350T & TL783?

or are their equivalents we can use?

also would MKS4  Polyethylene-terephthalate Wima Caps be ok, instead of the MKP4  Polypropylene ?

looking forward to this one!

cheers
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Godders on February 28, 2008, 05:24:36 PM
RS has both of those regulators.

Cheers

Nick
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nele on February 28, 2008, 05:27:49 PM
ditto farnell.
c
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 29, 2008, 02:07:19 AM
really! i searched and it said 'special order', meaning they come from the states...ill check again..

not much sleep lately...sorry..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Godders on February 29, 2008, 07:09:53 AM
LM350T – P/N 267-9917 (RS)
TL783 – P/N 9594582 (farnell)

RS only sells the TL783 in tubes of 50.

Cheers

Nick
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: peterc on February 29, 2008, 07:45:38 AM
Member here Maxwall has Tl 783 at a good price.

Peter
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on February 29, 2008, 08:29:48 AM
Hi,
I just wanted to mention that I sucessfully tested a simple 250uA Amperemeter with the D-AOC. Basicly it works, though the tracking in comparision to a sifam AL29 is not very convincing. Volker tested a 1mA meter, but the needle barely moves. Anyway, I recommend to test various meters, before buying quite expensive VU meters.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 29, 2008, 02:20:42 PM
thanks Bernd,
will write something about metering in the future.

for a first start something about the PSUs:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 29, 2008, 02:24:42 PM
THE PSUs

as mentioned before the PCB contains 3 PSUs:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/PSUs.jpg)

all components colored red are part of the
High Voltage PSU
CAUTION: Mains or High Voltages are lethal, you have to work very carefully here.
it is a good idea to always have a separate Voltmeter constantly connected to the High Voltage when working, this can be easily done at R128 or R218.

since this is an adaption of the Gyraf G9 High Voltage PSU, please read the Basic safety rules (http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/g9/g9pd.htm) Jakob wrote on the Gyraf G9 site.

R2 & R3 are setting the B+ voltage, I used some sockets on my prototype to empirically find the "right" values:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/PSU-R2R3.jpg)
with 470R + 47R resistors (silkscreened values) I get 238V after Rx28, close enough.
if you want to come closer to the 243V from analags schematic you can use a single 510R and a jumper, this gives me 241V (again, after Rx28).

don't forget to mount the TL783 insulated to the heat-sink, otherwise you will have a short from the regulator's output to ground !!!

!!! be aware that this PSU needs a load to work properly, with no tubes inserted you will have more than 350V !!!
!!! with no tubes inserted the High Voltage caps need a very long time to discharge, read the safety rules again !!!
if you are unsure and afraid of the tubes, test with only one channel fitted first.

and yes, you need a power transformer with a 220V - 250V secondary @ 0.1A even living in a 230V country.
DON'T KILL YOURSELF

all components colored yellow are part of the
Heater PSU
the power transformer needs to have a 9V - 12V secondary @ 2.5A, and the LM350T gets hot.
you need a good heat-sink here !!! the SK129 38.1 I used in mine (and which is silkscreened on the PCB) is not enough in my opinion.
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/PSU-Heatsink1.jpg)
may be a SK129 50,8 or SK129 63,5 will work, but I don't have one of either to test.
with a larger heat-sink and the regulator mounted off board to the chassis the regulator stays quite cool:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/PSU-Heatsink2.jpg)
like the TL783, the LM350T must be mounted insulated to the heat-sink, otherwise you will have a short from the regulator's output to ground !!!

before inserting the tubes adjust the heater voltage to 6,3V using RV1.
there are two test points next to C8.
after inserting the tubes check again and readjust.

all components colored blue are part of the
universal PSU
use this PSU for relay bypass, meter lamps, VU buffers, what you want.
if you don't plan to use any of the above you can just let this components out.
the output voltage is chosen by the 78XX you use.
take 7805 if you want 5V, 7812 for 12V, 7824 for 24V.
of course you need a matching secondary on your power transformer, and C11, C12 and C13 should be in the right voltage range.
if you want a real true hardwire bypass take very low values for C11 and C12.
at the moment my PSU3 holds the power for 4 seconds after switching off the unit, using 2200uF and 100uF (24V).
will have to change this since I want the compressor to be immediately in bypass after switching it off.

it is not necessary to insulate the 78XX from the heat-sink, but more elegant.
the PSU3 has its own ground path, you can use it floating, or use a little jumper (provided on the PCB) to connect the PSU3 ground to the main PCB ground.

hope this is helpful,
more to come
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 01, 2008, 07:38:48 AM
Very excited about this project. Thanks!!!  :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:

Volker, like many others I would also love to hear about the best possible meter option in this one, of course when you find the time.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 01, 2008, 08:12:41 AM
metering is just the metering circuit from the LA2A.
same options, same problems, what ever you like to call it.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 01, 2008, 08:21:37 AM
OK, I have no problem with LA-2A metering. Thanks for letting me know.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: laiben on March 02, 2008, 08:53:32 PM
What will happen with the sound if I use a 600ohm:600ohm transformer for the 1:1 tranny?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on March 02, 2008, 11:00:24 PM
Volker, where did you get that nifty 3-way fast-on ground lug and what is is called?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 03, 2008, 03:23:53 AM
don't know what they are called in english, I used one of each:

(http://www.order.conrad.com/m/7000_7999/7300/7320/7328/732850_BB_00_FB.EPS.jpg) (http://www.conrad.de/goto.php?artikel=732850)
(http://www.order.conrad.com/m/7000_7999/7300/7320/7328/732877_BB_00_FB.EPS.jpg) (http://www.conrad.de/goto.php?artikel=731984)

laiben, I used a 600R:600R Haufe for some tests and measured good results.
haven't compared it sound wise yet
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 03, 2008, 04:30:15 AM
Hi,
I just wanted to mention that http://www.musikding.de has almost all parts for this project in stock. Besides Vactrols and solen fast caps a suitable power transformer (primary 2x115V, sec1 250V 0,1A, sec2 9V 2,5A, sec3 24V 0,5A for EU and US members) is available as well.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 03, 2008, 04:48:13 AM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
Besides Vactrols and solen fast caps a suitable power transformer (primary 2x115V, sec1 250V 0,1A, sec2 9V 2,5A, sec3 24V 0,5A for EU and US members) is available as well.

Bernd


Where?  I can't see it listed on their site

Thanks for the tip though. :thumb:

Cheers

Jim
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pyjaman on March 03, 2008, 10:38:16 AM
Hi everybody,
Since I get more and more interested by this project, I've been studying the schem and pcb's PDFs (thanks a lot for these files!) And a question (may be a stupid one) comes to my mind ... for the GR metering, are BOTH the zener and the neon bulb necessary? I'm not familiar with the use of those little neons and don't know where to source them (France)...
 I may be a little out-of-subject talking PSU, but if someone could help...
thanks,
Laurent.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pyjaman on March 03, 2008, 10:45:27 AM
Talking parts supply, Banzaieffects in Germany also sells vactrols and various   film and electro HV caps (Solen fast, wima and more expensive hi grade caps) They have tubes too, various brands for cheap...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 03, 2008, 10:55:32 AM
Laurent,
you can use either the 1N5371 or the NE2 neonlamp. There is a footprint for both on the pcb. For reasons of temperature stability I would take the 1N5371, though NE2 is working fine in my prototype. The advantage of the neon light is that you see that the board is under power. The risk of touching something and getting an electrical shock is somehow lowered. Greetings to France, I´m on holiday there next week.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pyjaman on March 03, 2008, 11:00:32 AM
thank you for such a fast answer, I suspected something like that looking at the pcb traces...
Have nice holidays...
Title: musikding transformer?
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 03, 2008, 03:56:43 PM
Hi bernbrue,

you mention earlier about the mains transformer at Musikding, but i cant see the one you mention, could you be so kind as to point it out?

Thanks for your help

Best
Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 03, 2008, 04:36:55 PM
according Musikding:
since I had a phonecall from my transformer winding company - they are not amused to wind the same "custom transformer" every few days - which I can very much understand. they asked me if we could do it another way.
for myself, you guys are getting me crazy with the PCB orders, no way to handle a group buy with PSU transformers at the same time.
I thought about a solution, and one of my ideas was to get someone else to handle this, like a shop who sells to DIYers anyway.

bernbrue was kind enough to handle this.

we have discussed this "behind the scenes" for a time, since this should be a "no go commercial project", and Musikding will of course earn some money with kits, transformers, or anything else. I don't know if the main transformer is from the same source I do.

if Musikding offers all the parts I'm fine with it, since you DON'T have to buy there. for some people it would be easier and cheaper to have all from one source.

but may be Musikding don't have (the parts) on there website yet.

we will see.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 03, 2008, 04:54:08 PM
in addition to Volkers statement, which I totally agree with: The needed parts will be on their site soon. In the meanwhile, just send the partlist to Musikding and they will make you an offer with all available parts. Everything else is none of our business, since we don´t do any business here. You can buy there, but you don´t need to.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on March 03, 2008, 09:33:26 PM
What is the reason for having such a high secondary for the filament? Would a standard 6.3 VAC secondary work with this circuit? Could the larger voltage differential be the cause for the LM350T getting so hot?

If a standard 6.3 VAC secondary would work, it would make it a lot easier to find transformers. For example, a Hammond P-T269AX (125-0-125 @ 0.1A, 6.3 @ 2A) could be used along with a cheap, smaller transformer for the universal section.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 04, 2008, 03:37:47 AM
Quote from: "OneRoomStudios"
What is the reason for having such a high secondary for the filament? Would a standard 6.3 VAC secondary work with this circuit?

the LM350 voltage regulator needs a minimum of 3V difference between the input and output terminal to work.
yes, 9V is a bit on the high (but safe) side, thus the heat.

have not tested this for hum or noise, but of course you can leave out the whole heater PSU and use AC heating.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 04, 2008, 06:40:23 AM
Hi Volker

In order to insulate the regs from the heatsink, what would one use?  

Thanks

Jim
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 04, 2008, 07:05:10 AM
Jim, use something like
Farnell Nr 520214 (http://uk.farnell.com/520214/) (needs Thermal compound)
use an ohm meter to check for insulation after mounting.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on March 04, 2008, 07:06:35 AM
Quote from: "Jim50hertz"
Hi Volker

In order to insulate the regs from the heatsink, what would one use?  

Thanks

Jim


RS components   # 298-443
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 04, 2008, 07:15:36 AM
Thanks guys!  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on March 04, 2008, 08:43:19 AM
Volker
Just had a email with Tat - any plans to incorperate super sidechain into design - this could then be included in tats new case.

And everyone
Regarding mains transformer - it may be worth the forum coming up with a "universal" transormer for valve projects eg 0-7 0-7 at x current for heaters and y volts at y current for HT. May be worth considering winding for 48V also. Extra windings for solid state sidechains etc would be nice but i think it gets "too" custom. If enough people are intersted, we could start getting some bulk pricing to drive cost down.
Any thoughts :?:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 04, 2008, 08:49:32 AM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
Volker
Just had a email with Tat - any plans to incorperate super sidechain into design - this could then be included in tats new case.

no plans to change the PCB in any way :grin:
if you want options you can mount a switch for different slopes
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 04, 2008, 10:00:25 AM
Volker, so it's possible to add a few caps on the rotary to replace the slope cap on the PCB?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 04, 2008, 12:31:28 PM
Im really not understanding this concept of different colour leds for compression curves?

im under the impression  that the vatorol has the led and LDR built into it??

so when you are talking about blue leds and red leds what exactly do you mean?

very interested to know because it sounds like some thing id like to implement on mine..

best

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 04, 2008, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"

im under the impression  that the vatorol has the led and LDR built into it??

so when you are talking about blue leds and red leds what exactly do you mean?


Tomorrow I should have a little time to do a post with pictures and measurements about this.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 04, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Hi,
well, here are a few sound samples of a vocal ad lib recording, 1st one is as recorded, 2nd one compressed with the D-AOC. Furthermore the resulting waveforms can be seen here.  The 16 year old female singer is one of my pupils, recorded at school with AT4033 Mic and Yamaha 01V96 Mixer. No further treatment. Happy listening.

Waveforms:

http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/dependonyouadlibs.JPG
(http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/dependonyouadlibs.JPG)

and the samples:

http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/dependonyouadlibs.wav
http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/dependonyouadlibsDAOC.wav

regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 04, 2008, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"

im under the impression  that the vatorol has the led and LDR built into it??

so when you are talking about blue leds and red leds what exactly do you mean?


Tomorrow I should have a little time to do a post with pictures and measurements about this.


that would be lovely, look fwd to that.

best

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 04, 2008, 02:36:56 PM
Sounds like a very nice opto too me. Thank you Bernd for the samples.  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 05, 2008, 12:39:33 PM
MODDING THE SLOPES (& THRESHOLD)

a short story:

after building the first prototype I had a one (self made) problem:
I thought it doesn't compress. passed audio and measured well, but it just didn't want to compress. mhm.

I put in a (red) LED, paralleled to the Vactrol LED (to watch if it will light - since I was able to measure Audio at that point). There was no light, but - compression.

I emailed analag, kubi and viitalahde (since Jakkoo has a running build), and did some experiments while waiting for answers.

today I did some more measuring for this post:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-Slopes.GIF)
test conditions:
Input 100%, Threshold 100%, Output adjusted for 0 dB Gain without compression.
(= this is although the minimum threshold before compression)

again, sockets were used paralleled to the Vactrol LED:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4878.jpg)
(blue LED antiparallel in this test)

at first:
analags circuit is working as is. my self made problem was the input level.
I tested with my nominal level of +6 dBu, and with the Input and Threshold full open: no compression. (rowan and jakkoo seams to like / have HIGH levels).

result:
with LEDs or Resistors paralleled to the Vactrol LED, you can mod the D-AOC for different slopes, and lower Threshold. use sockets to test what you like best, or if you want to be crazy: use a switch.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 05, 2008, 01:06:04 PM
fantastic!

very interesting, i might just do this...

what is anti parallel by the way?

thanks! genius!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 05, 2008, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"
fantastic!

very interesting, i might just do this...

what is anti parallel by the way?

thanks! genius!


+ to - and - to +  parallel would be + to +  and - to -

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 05, 2008, 01:45:12 PM
i thought as much, when i really thought about what i was asking, there is only so much you can do with two connections!  :oops:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on March 05, 2008, 05:25:00 PM
The mods look cool, will definitely try them out on a switch.

Happy accident as they say.

Why was it not compressing much with the input gain at max...there is a lot of range on the threshold control no? Why not just drop it? Was that a +6dBu input signal?

Is the input control purely an attenuator or does it have gain too?
Sorry haven't downloaded the schemo yet.

Cheers T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Denyle Guitars on March 05, 2008, 06:08:18 PM
Hmm, I think I go crazy and try a 100k pot with a blue led anti-paralleled across two lugs.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 05, 2008, 06:11:41 PM
Hm, maybe I should include some of this craziness in my front panel case design  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on March 05, 2008, 06:23:33 PM
Just had a quick butchers at the schemo...

Input level is purely an attenuator at the input of the first tube grid.
But either I'm going mad or it is AFTER the gain reduction vactrol potential divider...hmm

-T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 06, 2008, 07:39:55 AM
Quote from: "TomWaterman"
Why was it not compressing much with the input gain at max...there is a lot of range on the threshold control no? Why not just drop it? Was that a +6dBu input signal?

would be better to label it "compression" instead of "threshold".
with the compression potentiometer at 100% you have the lowest threshold, there is no compression at 0%.

Input Level at 100% and "compression" at 100% is the lowest threshold, without any mods compression will slowly start at an input level of +12.5 dBu.

Quote from: "TomWaterman"
Input level is purely an attenuator at the input of the first tube grid.
But either I'm going mad or it is AFTER the gain reduction vactrol potential divider...hmm

you are not going mad, you are right. and the "compression" control is after the Input level control :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on March 06, 2008, 07:50:57 AM
Quote
without any mods compression will slowly start at an input level of +12.5 dBu.


Any chance to lower the threshold (or the point where compression kicks in) without changing the compression slope? +12dBu is on the high side if you're working with a digital system.

thanks
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on March 06, 2008, 03:39:48 PM
Hey thanks, that makes a whole lot more sense - I wasn't 'seeing' a threshold.

I'll label mine up as compression.

So I agree about the kick in point...unles you have an analogue stage out there in front, it will make it very hard to kick in coming out of a nominal digital system.

-T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on March 06, 2008, 03:46:15 PM
Can we not add some gain to the first ECC81 stage to get the signal up into the sidechain?

-T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on March 07, 2008, 07:20:20 AM
I third this. If levels have to be this high it won't be much use as an insert in a digital system without plugging in a line amp in front of it...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Denyle Guitars on March 07, 2008, 07:37:09 AM
Maybe you could lower or lose R103.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 07, 2008, 07:39:44 AM
Just getting parts together for this and have a question.
The output caps 10uf 600v Poly's , any other recommendations as I'm finding
them hard to get and VERY expensive , like £8 each !
Found nice ones at Farnell but they are axial and 7cm across, so perhaps too big ??

VTL5C4/2 can be had from smallbear for $6 each BTW

Any info on the size and "hole width" of the two smaller heat sinks ??
There's several dozen similar things on Farnell's site.

For the BIG one, I'm going to use a large 8x6cm heat sink and attach it to
the case bottom/back.

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 07, 2008, 08:27:49 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Just getting parts together for this and have a question.
The output caps 10uf 600v Poly's , any other recommendations as I'm finding
them hard to get and VERY expensive , like £8 each !
Found nice ones at Farnell but they are axial and 7cm across, so perhaps too big ??
Marty.


Marty,
spacing of the 10uF 630V Poly is 55mm. For the heatsink there is an ordering number in the BOM, look for further details there, pls. I´m just about to go on holiday. See you in three weeks.
Cheers
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 07, 2008, 08:31:44 AM
Here you go :-)
(http://www.reichelt.de/bilder//web/artikel/C800/!PR32.jpg)
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 07, 2008, 08:39:14 AM
Thanks Bernd, much appreciated :-)

Enjoy your break .

Marty.

UPDATE __ UPDATE __ UPDATE !!

Here's the Farnell code for the 50mm high version : 1219493
and the 38mm high version is : 1219491
Footprint and board mounting are exact on these.

There should be plenty of room for the 50mm high, and it will dissipate more heat.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Tubefreak on March 07, 2008, 11:06:15 AM
Quote from: "living sounds"
I third this. If levels have to be this high it won't be much use as an insert in a digital system without plugging in a line amp in front of it...


Good point. Any constructive solutions?
Maarten
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mcfarlane_audio on March 07, 2008, 05:04:40 PM
well i like the lowering r103 idea that could work, but call me crazy but looking at the compression curves with the mods it looks like the blue led (parallel) it looks like a slightly steeper version of no mods, but the 100k across looks less steep, so......maybe if we just strap them both across we will get a similar slope with lower threshold, i think im going to try this when ever i get mine up, but if someone whos already got one wants to try i would be grateful, thanks
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on March 09, 2008, 08:32:58 PM
What if a 12AT7 or 12AX7 were used in place of V102? This would allow the gain-staging in the signal path to remain the same, but would allow for more gain in the side-chain. If the problem is only that there is too high a threshold, wouldn't a higher amplification factor in the opto driving circuit effectively lower the threshold?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Denyle Guitars on March 10, 2008, 01:29:00 PM
Sure, try a 12dw7 & 5751 there as well.

Anyone working on a sidechain HP? Would a capacitor in series with R110 work? How about one parallel to R112.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 10, 2008, 05:35:34 PM
Just a few quickies,

would any body able to tell me if this project can drive my 1ma VU meters??

And was the EDCOR 10k/10k good on the input?

Best
Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 10, 2008, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: "OneRoomStudios"
What if a 12AT7 or 12AX7 were used in place of V102? This would allow the gain-staging in the signal path to remain the same, but would allow for more gain in the side-chain.

this would be the right way to lower the threshold for sure.
but without changing some component values around the tube there won't be any difference.

a little input transformer test will follow within the next two days.

btw, this is an open project, feel free to do your own experiments :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 10, 2008, 06:18:49 PM
thanks volker, well def try my OEP's too, the EDCORs are just incredible value for money, cant quite believe how cheap they are..I think i read Analag use's them all the time..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 11, 2008, 12:30:13 PM
INPUT TRANSFORMERS

today I opened up my box of transformers, and took some of them out where I thought they could fit in this circuit.

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4889.jpg)

from left to right:
Edcor XSM10K/10K, Edcor WSM10K/10K, Lundahl LL1540, Haufe RK310-2, Haufe RK255-1, Haufe RK240, API 2621, Neve T.1442 (= 31267)

this was not a listening test :green:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-InputTransformersFreq.GIF)

PHASE SHIFT:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-InputTransformersPhase.GIF)

THD+N:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-InputTransformersTHD+N.GIF)

Measuring conditions:
no output transformer,
Output Potentiometer = 100%, Input Potentiometer set for unity gain without transformers.
Generator Level = 0dBu
Zout 15Ω, Zin 100K
no Zobel networks etc used, just the transformers
(all at 1:1, except Haufe RK240 which is 1:2)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on March 11, 2008, 02:45:03 PM
Wow.  Interesting stuff and nice work.  When do we get to read about the subjective listening tests?   :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ioaudio on March 11, 2008, 04:04:09 PM
wow, there you have it.
losses from big iron/thick laminations, high dc-resistances (did you wire the ll1540 in series?) and the hf-characteristics from the different winding schemes.
many thanks for this test!
which hardware/software did you use?

-max
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 11, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
When do we get to read about the subjective listening tests?   :wink:

from me ? never. too subjective :green:

Quote from: "ioaudio"
(did you wire the ll1540 in series?)

yes

Quote from: "ioaudio"
which hardware/software did you use?

as always: Neutrik A2 / AS04 (which is a pain. NTI - please, do an update for this software) :roll:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 11, 2008, 04:38:15 PM
How about some sound samples? But now it's too late I guess  :cool:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Peter A on March 15, 2008, 08:22:20 AM
Hi

Thanks for doing the test Volker.

I'm not sure what to make of it. Does the test sugest to much hf roll off from the Edcor transformers??

Best regards

Peter
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 15, 2008, 09:46:24 AM
Quote from: "Peter A"
I'm not sure what to make of it. Does the test sugest to much hf roll off from the Edcor transformers ??

Peter,
the test shows too much hf roll off in this circuit, in my opinion.
but this is only measuring - may be the sound is right, or the combination with an output transformer, or while compressing  :grin:
too many options to measure all combinations.
take this charts just as an idea what each part can do.
choose what ever you think it fits your need (on paper, or sound-wise)
anybody is welcome to post his result and opinions after the build :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 15, 2008, 09:52:56 AM
EDCOR WMS goes over 20KHz, do we hear the difference from 20KHz to 40KHz at all?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 15, 2008, 09:57:54 AM
OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS

I have measured:
Edcor XSM10K/600, Edcor WSM600/10K backwards, an original NOS Haufe AÜ V74 and a (Altec) Peerless 15095. there have been a few others under test, but the circuit seams not to be sensitive to the output transformers.
anythings in the range of 10K:600 (4:1) will do.

forgot to take a photo, and lost the THD curves, sorry :oops:
but nothing special there.

FREQUENCY RESPONSE:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-OutputTransformersFreq.gif)
[edit: the 100R in the gif is 600R, of course]

PHASE SHIFT:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-OutputTransformersPhase.gif)

Measuring conditions:
no input transformer,
Output Potentiometer = 100%, Input Potentiometer set for +12dB gain without transformers.
Generator Level = 0dBu
Zout 15Ω, Zin 600R / 100K
no Zobel networks etc used, just the transformers
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rodabod on March 15, 2008, 10:05:54 AM
That Edcor XSM isn't looking fantastic.... ~-3.3dB @10KHz, -6dB @20KHz for input.

As expected, the Lundahl really does perform well - funny how much better the distortion figure is from the rest of the group. I'm also surprised the Marinair/St. Ives did so well too.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Peter A on March 15, 2008, 11:53:56 AM
Well Edcor also makes the XS1100 which should be there alternative
to the Lundahll.
maybe this could be and option or perhaps the good ol'  OEP's?

What dit bernbrue use in his proto?? His sound exsambles sounded nice.

best regards

Peter
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 15, 2008, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: "Peter A"
What dit bernbrue use in his proto?? His sound exsambles sounded nice.

We will have to wait for bernbrue for this info - he is on vacation at the moment.

Can do some tests tomorrow with the XS1100 since I have one here.
for the OEPs - I don't own any.

but again - none of this measuring says anything about sound.
try it. like it. if not - change it.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 15, 2008, 02:21:45 PM
Volker, any chance to make a few simple sound samples?
Maybe Edcor WMS vs Lundahl vs Marianir?
This would really help all of us on the forum to decide what iron to order.  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on March 17, 2008, 08:29:58 AM
volker - can you try switching out the side chain tubes for something like 12at7 or 12ax7 and experimenting with some component values? A simple fix for the high threshold would be great.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 22, 2008, 04:37:57 AM
Kubi was kind enough to send me this photo of his finished D-AOC, Frontpannel removed:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-Kubi.jpg)

He already used it for tracking and mixing, loved it on Acoustic Guitar and Choirs.
Compared to the LA2A Kubi says the D-AOC is more inconspicuous and inaudible.
While mixing he missed his second D-AOC :green:

[since Kubi is in vacation he asked me to post this for him]
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 22, 2008, 06:26:25 AM
Sounds fun, are those trafos on the photo Edcors?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 30, 2008, 11:26:27 AM
Hi,
back from holiday. Here are some quick RMAA sine sweeps with various input transformer.

Pikatron ÜP 3910
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/Spectrum_Pikatron_%C3%9CP_3910_Input.png)


EDCOR XS 1100
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/Spectrum_Edcor_XS_1100_Input.png)

EDCOR XSM 10K 10K
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/Spectrum_Edcor_XSM_10k_10_Input.png)

Lundahl LL1521
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/Spectrum_Lundahl_LL1521_Input.png)

OEP A262A2E
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/Spectrum_OEP_A262A2E_Input.png)

I finally took the Lundahls for my prototype, which is, except for the frontpanel not engraved yet, ready to go.
cheers
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 30, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
Lundahl LL1521, are you sure? I could not find these anywhere on the web...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 30, 2008, 11:53:42 AM
Tat,
The LL1521 is a high impedance line input transformer, very similar to the LL1540 but with a slight stepup.
Turns ratio 1 + 1 : 2.28

Usage:

In+      pin 1   (left row, bottom pin when viewed from component side)
In-      pin 3
connect      pin 2 + pin 4

Out+      pin 5   (right row, bottom pin when viewed from component side)
Out-      pin 8
Shields      pin 6

LL1521 and LL1540 are pin compatible
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on March 30, 2008, 12:02:19 PM
Thanks Bernd for the explanation. But where can I find some?
I could not find them even on the Lundahl official website.
I am just curious about their cost, the XS1100 look to have similar
curve and are cheap so Lundahls might be a nice option also but
it depends on the price.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on March 30, 2008, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: "Purusha"
Thanks Bernd for the explanation. But where can I find some?
I could not find them even on the Lundahl official website.
.


I don't think Lundahl makes those anymore. They where some  for sale once at the black market..

Here more info about older types...

http://www.lundahl.se/old_types.html
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 30, 2008, 12:22:49 PM
TonydB had a whole bunch of them a few month ago, they are older, discontinued transformer, the LL1540 is almost the same.  Try different input trannies and take the one you like best.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 30, 2008, 12:34:10 PM
Hi,
for those who ordered the relay boards and don´t want to use the Neutrik XLR print but standard XLRs:

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The_Raven_010%7E0.jpg)

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The_Raven_011%7E0.jpg)

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The_Raven_013%7E1.jpg)

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The_Raven_014%7E1.jpg)

regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 30, 2008, 12:37:49 PM
Bernd, great idea :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: PimD on March 30, 2008, 02:13:09 PM
so easy, almost makes it a
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/pimduiverman/doh_l.gif)
moment
 :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on March 31, 2008, 02:03:54 PM
Any builders in the states yet?  The WIMA's aren't the easiest thing to find stateside.  Do you guys think the Sprague Orange Drops would work in this capacity? :wink:

TubeDepot has the Solen Fast caps and all things tube.
http://www.tubedepot.com/solen.html
http://www.tubedepot.com/tubesockets.html


All the polarized caps seem like they'll be easy enough to find.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 31, 2008, 02:22:17 PM
I will have to learn what is where available :oops:
but you don't have to use Wimas, Orange Drops will work fine
(but check if they fit the spacing)

75 PCBs of 105 paid PCBs are already shipped, the rest will follow the next 2 days. you should have the PCB soon.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on March 31, 2008, 03:04:17 PM
Does tawelectronics.com have the WIMAs? I looked over their selection but kinda lost interest when the nf to uf conversions stumped me. Thanks for the info on the Solens. How about the power transformer in the US?

http://www.tawelectronics.com
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on March 31, 2008, 04:41:28 PM
I'm in the middle of doing some parts-ordering and now i'm thinking about the trafo's to go for Edcor, they seem to be pretty cheap and decent.
The only thing i'm thinking about is the type, i think the Edcor XSM10K/600  is ok for the inputs but is that one also OK to use on the outputs or should i use different ones for that?
Or do you think it's a better idea to go for different trannies?
I do like the Lundahls but they are a lot more expensive and i'd like to try something else for a chance.

Maybe it's a good idea to make a list of good trannies that will fit the D-AOC with prices and where to order, i think that will help all of us.
Anyone?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 31, 2008, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: "dagoose"
Maybe it's a good idea to make a list of good trannies that will fit the D-AOC with prices and where to order, i think that will help all of us.
Yes, do it :thumb:
please don't forget: this is a DIY project.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 31, 2008, 05:42:33 PM
Anyone have news on that "elusive" power transformer, I did look at the
German site and did not find it ?
Seems like we're going to need about 200 of 'em !!!
Oh, have not found the HUGE 10uf's in the UK either.

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 31, 2008, 05:55:05 PM
I found one that has these specifications: Primary 2x 115V, secondary 250V 0,1A, 9V 2,5A and 24V 0,1A.

Is that the correct one?
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 31, 2008, 05:59:25 PM
Yes, where is that from ?

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rob_gould on March 31, 2008, 06:03:37 PM
Quote from: "MartyMart"

Oh, have not found the HUGE 10uf's in the UK either.

MM.


Marty,

These look the same in spec despite the picture looking different.  

Doubt it would work out much cheaper ordering them from Germany even though the euro prce is pretty much the same as the sterling price cos the € is so strong at the mo though...

http://www.mercasystems.com/s/index.php?target=products&product_id=55304637&currency=gbp

EDIT:

A further quick search has brought up these - with shipping at only $6.95 it makes it well worth ordering them from the US as long as customs charges are avoided.  I'll certainly get some in if anyone in the UK wants to group buy...

http://www.tubedepot.com/cp-so-1000-630v.html
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 31, 2008, 06:04:31 PM
...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 31, 2008, 06:07:31 PM
here (http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1379_Solen-Fast-10uF-630V.html/XTCsid/1965cea62cbc440d9bd914fe391708c0)
and
transformer here (http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1361_Toroidal-transformer-230V----270V--14V.html)

The tranny appears to be mislabelled as having 270/14v secondaries but the body of the text suggests it's the one we want.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 31, 2008, 06:20:24 PM
Thanks chaps, ordered the traffo/Solen Fast caps and the PCB mount
noval sockets/tubes.
Came to 103 Euro's inc shipping, which seems quite reasonable.

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 31, 2008, 08:04:06 PM
Hi All,

just a quick post as its 01:00am and i got to get up mega early,

but i built mine today!! passes audio superbly but it does not want to compress yet, i have probably over looked something, too late to look now..

but on the rightmark analyzer it specs are amazing, 100dB noise floor, I used all edcors , freq response is -.5dB at 20Khz and -2dB at 40kz!!! pretty good in my book..

what on earth i could of done wrong to make not compress i dont know, its pretty straight forward.

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 31, 2008, 08:16:32 PM
Yes, that transformer was what i found aswell. Sorry i forgot to post the link, im glad things sorted out fine anyway!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on March 31, 2008, 09:17:34 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
The WIMA's aren't the easiest thing to find stateside.


mouser.com caries Wimas, and Solens can be had from various places including tubesandmore.com


Anyone have any luck with a US source for the power transformer?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on March 31, 2008, 09:58:07 PM
Part numbers for the WIMAs from TAW electronics in the US

MKP4 104J400-6 for the 0.1uf 400v
MKP4 105J400-7 for the 1uf 400v
MKP4 224J400 for the 0.22uf 400v

available from http://www.tawelectronics.com
total before shipping was $16.25
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 01, 2008, 12:18:17 AM
Thanks for the part numbers. :thumb:   I think I'll contact Edcor tomorrow about the power transformer.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Junction on April 01, 2008, 12:41:59 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Anyone have news on that "elusive" power transformer
MM.

I can get custom power transformers wound here in Malaysia, have made quite a few for tube guitar amps and a Pultec. For tube rack gear I think they would cost less than Euro20 or less than US33 for one unit, quantities might be even cheaper.

Shipping could be a problem as they are quite weighty, but if there was a group order from the US or UK etc, then we could ship multiple units and someone there then distribute.

Let me know if interested and also transformer specs, so I can get it quoted.

Michael
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 01, 2008, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"
what on earth i could of done wrong to make not compress i dont know, its pretty straight forward.

Pete, with no mod you need a very high input level to get compression.
Put a red or blue LED parallel to the Vactrol LED and you are fine.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 01, 2008, 04:19:49 AM
Good morning Volker,

In my haste last night i forgot to thank you for what you and the all the guys invovled have done, superb effort.

So, Ok, I will try that tongight,

I forgot to mention, feeding it with 1Khz test tone, that when you turn the compression knob, looking at the output with a spectrum analyser, as you increase the compression you gain slight distortion, where the upper harmonics are rasied, but the output level does not change.

no matter how high i drove the input, the output level did not drop when compression knob was turned.

Also I am using 1ma meters which adjusting with the meter trim can only just get off the floor, I am wondering if this might be a clue to whats happening in the GR circuit.

above problems apply to both sides so must be either a common mistake (by me) or as you say i need to lower the threshold with the Mod, which is more likely the case and the meter problem is most likely another issue all togheter.

Best
Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 05:46:14 AM
Here's some Farnell codes for the stuff I ordered for the D_AOC.
It's NOT complete, as I had some things anyway, but hope it helps
save the 2+ hrs that it took me to find it all !!

Capacitors -
100uf 50v ( 35v use ) 969-6660 NOTE this is a "bipolar" and probably wrong - intended for the Pico Comp board
47uf 350v                  969-6440  12 needed
1000uf 25v                969-2193
2200uf 35v                969-2347
3300uf 25v                969-2223
Poly -
0.22uf 400v               116-6132
1uf 400v                    116-6136
0.1uf 400v                 121-5494

Resistors -
470ohms 2 watt          933-8250
2k2 2 watt                  933-8160
10k 2 watt                  933-8063
39k 2 watt                  947-5257
100k 2 watt                933-8071   ( all 10 pieces minimum )
1M trimpot                 935-4328    ( 5 pieces minimum )

Other -
LM350T                      131-7673
TL783CKC                  959-4582
1N5371                        955-8284
1N5400G diode           145-8988
1N4007 diode             146-7514
5w zener 39v              955-8233
Heatsink - undrilled     232-968  ( bigger one to attach to case for heat dissipation !! )
Heatsink - board         121-9493 ( matches board pattern 2 needed )

VTL5C4/2  - ordered from ;  www.smallbearelec.com
Transformer/ solen fast 10uf/ tubes and sockets ordered from
www.musikding.de and found very easily.

Marty.

EDIT - Board arrived whilst typing this :-)
Thanks Volker .
EDIT - I had the numbers spaced out evenly but it goes away in "preview"
and when posted !! - sh*t  !
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 01, 2008, 08:19:16 AM
Im cheap, so im going to buy all edcor transformers for this project.
Quick question:
Since the edcor wsm 600:10k transformer in reverse seems to be working fine for the output as shown in the measurements silent:arts provided, is it safe to say that the 10k:600r edcor used in a non reverse configuration will probably work fine here also?

Im trying to work out what to order. Im thinking edcor xs1100 on input, and wsm 10k:600r on output (or 600r:10k reversed).

Thanks!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 09:58:29 AM
OOPS - missed out the 1N5371's from the order, if anyone has 2x spare
could you PM me, I have extra's of several other things so a "postal swop"
would be fine :-)
( all other diodes/2W resistors etc )

Ta,
Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 01, 2008, 11:08:56 AM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"

no matter how high i drove the input, the output level did not drop when compression knob was turned.

Also I am using 1ma meters which adjusting with the meter trim can only just get off the floor, I am wondering if this might be a clue to whats happening in the GR circuit.


Pete,
I tried a 250uA meter successfully whereas a 1mA meter barely moved. Changing R124/126 might help, although I didn´t test it. As I mentioned earlier, compression is very subtile. Feed the compressor with some percussive sounds (drums) and you´ll hear it. Otherwise check the connection of the input pot.  Don´t forget the red or blue LED parallel to the vactrols LED, as Volker mentioned earlier.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 01, 2008, 11:22:13 AM
Hi Bernd,

Thanks for your reply and meter info, I will let you know how it goes.

I am really suprised about the quality of the audio specs, I only did a few quick tests, as the input / output amps working wonderfully, and only using the Edcors the response was incredible, I can post some images of the sweeps later.

all the best
Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 01, 2008, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"

Thanks for your reply and meter info, I will let you know how it goes.


Hey Pete, definitely let us know if changing R124/126 solves the meter issue.
I have a couple 1ma meters that I want to use.

David
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 01, 2008, 12:19:56 PM
hi David,

most certainly will tonight for you.

I was wondering what the reason behind the factor of ten between the values of the two resistors? if any one can shed some light on it that would be interesting.

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 01, 2008, 12:20:29 PM
Quote from: "cannikin"

I have a couple 1ma meters that I want to use.

David


Me too.  
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/MikoKensington/DSC_3972fw_med.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 01, 2008, 12:27:44 PM
changing resistor values was just a guess, don´t nail me down on that ..
Miko, were do you get those beautiful meters?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 12:29:40 PM
Guys, BOM says 12 x 47uf 350v and the board has 47uf 400v silkscreened !
Can I get away with the 350v caps as they were quite expensive ??
Don't think I can change them as it's a few weeks since I got them.

Ta,
Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 01, 2008, 12:30:17 PM
Cheap on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270222836163&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=017

I just hope they look the same when they come.   :?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 01, 2008, 12:42:22 PM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Can I get away with the 350v caps as they were quite expensive ??

all 47uF after the regulator are fine with 350V.
the voltage of C2, C3 & C4 are depending on your Power Transformer.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 01, 2008, 12:43:22 PM
Marty,
with 47uF 350V you are just fine, took them as well and mine didn´t blow up.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 01, 2008, 12:43:57 PM
:grin: the master himself, received the pcb, what a nice sticker, wow.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 12:45:51 PM
Thanks  :roll:
`panic attack about £20 worth of caps !!

 :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 01, 2008, 01:01:34 PM
for the Meter:
the circuit is taken from the LA2A
(which uses a VU Meter)
btw, there is a 3K9 resistor needed in series with the VU which is not on the PCB
(since I wanted to have a switchable "Gain Reduction" / Output VU)

some comments from Keith:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25646

and how to calibrate it:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=23253.msg276178#msg276178
(R25 = R126 & R226 in the D-AOC)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 01:10:40 PM
Could I use 2x 39v zener diodes for the 5371's as I happened to order 5watt
versions anyway .. they are a little large !
5371 is 60v and I would have either 39v with one or almost 80v with two.
Or is the application wrong for these ?

MM.[/i]
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 01, 2008, 02:24:17 PM
Hey, where is the 5371 diodes mentioned? I cannot find anything about them in the  BOM.

Are they needed for this project, and if so...how many?

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 01, 2008, 02:36:31 PM
Jonkan,
you´re right, they are not on the BOM. Volker, would you update the pdf file on your server, plz? You need two 1N5371 (Farnell 9558284)
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 01, 2008, 03:17:28 PM
I would still prefer the Neon Lamps here ...
for the safety reason (you can see there is power on)

and I haven't tested the 1N5371, neither for PCB spacing nor for the meter circuit.

roughly you want to have 67V. any zener with this specs could be used here.

the board layout is for the Farnell PartNr Bernd posted above (which is a 60V/5Watt Zener btw). I haven't found any closer value while doing the PCB Layout.
one of the reasons the BOM I posted states "incomplete" :oops:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 01, 2008, 03:55:59 PM
Volker - no problem, I should have checked, don't need anything at the mo
from Farnell, so I'll "fudge" something with a couple of zeners.
MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 01, 2008, 04:57:37 PM
What kind of neon lamp are you talking about? Any chance of a part number somwhere so i have a reference?

Im not even sure what these will do? I must have missed this in the thread somehow im guessing. If someone could fill me in real quick, id be happy!

And to you who has completed the build with edcor transformers im wondering which edcors you ended up with?

Thanks!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 01, 2008, 08:25:26 PM
Hi All,

Yes Volker you were right, put the led in and it compressed just lovely!

works and sounds incredible...just as nice as my LA2a if not nicer, faster attack / release times is what i'm liking.

ill post pictures tomorrow.

ZZZzzz
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 04:31:42 AM
Quote from: "Jonkan"
What kind of neon lamp are you talking about? Any chance of a part number somwhere so i have a reference?

Conrad Nr 725200 (http://www.conrad.se/?article=725200) is what I use.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 04:33:22 AM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"
works and sounds incredible...just as nice as my LA2a if not nicer, faster attack / release times is what i'm liking

first price for the fastest build I guess :thumb:

 :green: now the pics please :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 02, 2008, 04:51:59 AM
Volker, just wanted to say that the boards are laid out beautifully !
It would be almost impossible to "screw up" so long as you check component
value and polarity ..... a breeze :-)
Good spacing and traces in all the right places, I'm sure this will be quiet as
a mouse in operation.

Just waiting on some parts from Musikding and the Tat case, it's really a work
of art ..... Great job  :sam:  :sam:

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on April 02, 2008, 07:08:16 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]INPUT TRANSFORMERS

today I opened up my box of transformers, and took some of them out where I thought they could fit in this circuit.

from left to right:
Edcor XSM10K/10K, Edcor WSM10K/10K, Lundahl LL1540, Haufe RK310-2, Haufe RK255-1, Haufe RK240, API 2621, Neve T.1442 (= 31267)


(all at 1:1, except Haufe RK240 which is 1:2)



i have a question regarding the haufe rk255/1.

-does the red dot, mark the pin 1?
-how did you wire it?


thanks a lot!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Denyle Guitars on April 02, 2008, 08:25:56 AM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
I think I'll contact Edcor tomorrow about the power transformer.


What's the word on these? Any chance of a US group buy?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: "Denyle Guitars"
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
I think I'll contact Edcor tomorrow about the power transformer.


What's the word on these? Any chance of a US group buy?


Well, before a group buy can take place, I think we all need to agree on what the 3rd secondaries ( :? ) should be in terms of voltage and current.

220V 0.1A
    9V 2.5A
     ?    ?

Anyone like to chime in?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 02, 2008, 10:15:16 AM
Well,
Pri 2x 115 (230V), sek1 250V 0,1A, sek2 9V 2,5A and sek3 24V 0,5A seems to be a good choice. With these specs you have to use 24V relays in the D-AOC. 24V can easily be adapted to provide phantom power via voltage doubler for mic pres or for meter and pilot lamps. Such a power transformer is quite useful for other tube projects, too.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 11:17:54 AM
Well, I'll get a quote from Edcor then.  The price of the Musikding transformer with shipping to the U.S. is around $70.  We'll see if Edcor can beat that.   :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 12:11:29 PM
Quote from: "Brizco"

i have a question regarding the haufe rk255/1.
-does the red dot, mark the pin 1?

yes. Datasheet (http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/RK255-1_Data.PDF)
Quote from: "Brizco"
-how did you wire it?

1:1
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 03:40:10 PM
OK.  I got a reply from Edcor about the custom power transformers.  They will be a about $46 each.  Plus the one-time $20 setup charge.  I will buy the first one to get things rolling.  I'm waiting to hear about a price break, too.  I asked that the leads be made nice and long for those that may wish to mount the transformer outside of the case rear.

Here is what the basic dimensions will be.
http://www.audiotransformers.net/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item277

The differences are, ours will be vertical mount without the "L" brackets and they will have end bells like the Edcor Class X transformers.  

U.S. guys let me know if you're interested.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on April 02, 2008, 03:42:21 PM
I'm trying to get a parts order together and I'm having trouble finding a few things in the USA.
I can't find any 39K 2w resistors or 1N5371 diodes. I checked both Mouser and Digikey as thats where I plan to buy most of the other parts from. Anyone know where to get them in the USA?

I've almost got a BOM done if anyone wants to try it out, let me know.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 03:58:23 PM
Quote from: "jrfred453"
I'm trying to get a parts order together and I'm having trouble finding a few things in the USA.
I can't find any 39K 2w resistors or 1N5371 diodes. I checked both Mouser and Digikey as thats where I plan to buy most of the other parts from. Anyone know where to get them in the USA?

I've almost got a BOM done if anyone wants to try it out, let me know.


I haven't had much luck with the 39K either.  So I was thinking of using a 33K and a 6.2K in series.  Would that work?  

The 1N5371 isn't easy to find.  Mouser does have some NE2 neon lamps, but I'm not sure which to go with.  I'm assuming it's 65V AC but I don't know the current rating we need.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 04:12:17 PM
NE2 is just - perfect :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
Title: Analag silent arts Opto finished
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 02, 2008, 04:12:52 PM
Hi all,

Still work in progress but here are some pics of my almost finished unit, just need to tweak the meter circuit and add the meter lights. Ill probably change the traffo at some point, although their not bad, but Its such a good design it seems a shame to waste good response on a lesser transformer. I'm sure some one knows how to get a better performance out of them than I?

here is a link the the rightmark analyser tests i did that shows freq res, THD etc etc etc...I used all Edcors TX used in Volkers test.

http://www.sinestarproject.com/opto.htm

and this is what it looks like..(not sure why it has made the post so wide! sorry..)

I have put a 5 pos switch "Limit Mode" on board that alters the curves, 1=off, 2=100k 3=blue LED, 4=Red LED 5=Blue LED anti parallel. As you see from Volkers curves each increase results in a tad more compression / limiting. i love the way it sounds, i have tested it on drums so far and im loving it!! I think you all will too..

Pete


(http://www.sinestarproject.com/opto1.jpg)





(http://www.sinestarproject.com/opto2.jpg)





(http://www.sinestarproject.com/opto3.jpg)





(http://www.sinestarproject.com/optopanel.jpg)






(http://www.sinestarproject.com/gizzards.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: JanW on April 02, 2008, 04:35:41 PM
Wow  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

that was really a fast build.

really nice !

I like the switch for the different modes.

Jan
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 04:39:01 PM
Pete, great work :thumb:
added a "finished unit" section to he first post :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]NE2 is just - perfect :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:


But there are a few different suffixes.  Like NE2E.  Volker, what do you think of this fella?
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=rHu0DOexXLC8qwRiDFto6g%3d%3d
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 02, 2008, 05:07:34 PM
looks good
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 02, 2008, 05:08:14 PM
Anyone that has any tips on relatively cheap meters one could use for this project?

Im not too concerned with accuracy, i tend to use my ears more than meters. but something that moves and looks pretty would be nice.  :wink:

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 02, 2008, 05:22:02 PM
Hi Volker,

I have said it before but will say it again, many thanks for all your effort, and every one involved. I have seen what you have built in the past, in fact it was you that inspired me the very first time i came to this forum with your Summing Mixer, so it means a lot.  :sam:

And Mr Analag, I'm a novice tube circuit designer, if i can ever design some thing as clean as this i'd be happy. I have studied your circuit a lot. Its so simple(or is it!), well the output tube config confuses me a little! :guinness:

I'm really looking fwd to see what and how other people make theirs over the coming months.

Now i better compose some music!

Pete

 :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 02, 2008, 05:26:52 PM
Is this Pete signing off?  C'mon, you can't be done, done.  That's just not fair.   :wink:

Seriously though.  Very nice build.  Show us some of the guts.  I for one would like to see how you rigged up that slope switch. :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 02, 2008, 05:34:38 PM
LOL, I have hogged the air waves to long already!!!

Ok Miko i'll post the inside.

Im working on a 2ru design of the front panel, that i will upload on the Group panel thang that okgb is wanting to get off the ground.  along with all my other designs so any one will be able to download them and edit them if they like too.

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TomWaterman on April 02, 2008, 06:11:59 PM
Sweetbuild!

Looks real similar to how I had planned to do mine, 3U though.
Nice one Peter. Damn fast - I ain't even got my boards yet! LOL

-T
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 03, 2008, 06:05:19 AM
Yup, looks really cool! Great work!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 03, 2008, 07:24:56 AM
Pete,
what a beautiful built!! You´re even faster than the beta tester team. I bet you had everything ready before you received the pcb  :wink: . The front panel design is really amazing, the red colour turns out very nice. Just waiting for my front panel to be engraved ... The homage to Rowan and Volker is very much appreciated. Three thumps up  :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jim50hertz on April 03, 2008, 07:47:10 AM
Yeah Pete, amazing looking build!   :thumb:

I wanna see the gizzards! :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 03, 2008, 08:01:49 AM
Stunning looks!! ...and sound, no doubt  :cool:

That Analag/Silent Arts logo rocks. I might do that as well....if I ever find the time to start building..

And now some inside pics please :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 03, 2008, 12:32:57 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
OK.  I got a reply from Edcor about the custom power transformers.  They will be a about $46 each.  U.S. guys let me know if you're interested.


I'm in for four. I'd be happy to split the setup charge. PM or email me (follow the web address).
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on April 03, 2008, 12:48:08 PM
MIko,
I was debating about whether to get the power transformer from Germany since I'm going on holiday in Ireland in two weeks or go the Edcor route. Looks like the Edcor route is cheaper since the dollar sucks so much. I'm in if theres a group buy for one transformer.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: codered on April 03, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
Looks great especially with that red! So was it an engraving or silkscreen?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 03, 2008, 01:32:57 PM
I ordered the Power Transformer yesterday.  I covered the set-up cost.  If it looks good, I'll let you guys know.  

I'm not sure I have the desire to arrange a full on group buy at the moment.  But if the number of U.S. guys is large enough to make it worthwhile, yet small enough to avoid confusion, I'll consider it.

Shipping is a pain.  This will also be a heavy item.  So, you can imagine my hesitance.  :?

Either way.  Let's not clutter this thread with talk of group buys.  We'll save that for Black Market.  :wink:  :sam:  :guinness:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 03, 2008, 04:03:25 PM
Hi Guys,

Posted a pic of the guts back in my post and below some points i have wanted to mention,

Meters.

I said i'd report back about the meters, I am using 1ma type and I know some of you want to too. unfortunately i have not cracked it.

Eventually with some adjustment and also the positive on my meters being in fact negative! the needles sits almost up right, around the -3dB mark.

played a little with R126, i put a pot in place with a 1k in series just to stop shorting, and it did make few more dB to -1dB on the scale but i could not get it any further, then i got scared and put it back to normal.

so, I'm going to leave it for a while as i have a session next week and i don't want to break it right now!

so hopefully some one with more skill than me can work out what needs to be amended here to make a 1ma meter work.

Regulators / heatsinks.

As far as the LM350 i had to do the same as volker, mount it on the deck, but just a heads up in the insulating of it against the heatsink, i had great trouble doing so.

sure you can insulate the outer nut and bolts with plastic washers say, i made my own, and the back of the Reg against the heat sink with a thermal pad, but i still had continuity between + and the Heatsink, because the bolt was touching the Reg as it passes though. so in the end i striped some cable sheathing about the size of the reg hole, and placed that in the reg hole, the bolt then passes through this, the Reg is 100% insulated from the bolt and the heatsink.

Now you are going to tell me there is an easier way aren't you! ;)

i did this to both 6.3v & 250v Regulators.

Best

Pete





[/b]
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 03, 2008, 05:48:41 PM
Pete, you can get special plastic washers from Farnell that go "through" the
hole in the LM*** range, so the bolt is totally insulated from the heat sink
end.
Works 100%   :-)


Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 03, 2008, 05:53:05 PM
Hi Marty,

Lol, i just new i was over complicating things!!

Mind, if you want any thing thats less than £20 from Farnel its a bit of a bummer..still next time I'll know so thank you.

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 03, 2008, 06:25:27 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"

Either way.  Let's not clutter this thread with talk of group buys.  


If all we have to do is call and ask and we won't all be charged an extra $20 than I see no reason for a group buy.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 03, 2008, 06:34:01 PM
What is the pitch of the audio (molex?) connectors? I'm sure it's in here somewhere but I can't find it.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 03, 2008, 06:39:12 PM
0,1 (=2,54 mm)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on April 03, 2008, 07:32:00 PM
Nice project you have made!  :thumb:

Now, since i was a bit too slow, i just hope there will be some leftover pcb's for me to grab..  :wink:

Regarding the meters, i don't know this meter circuitry and i don't know what type meter you have.. But if circuit asks for a VU meter (AC) and yours is a normal DC meter, it shure won't work. You'll need a rectifier and perhaps also another driver stage..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on April 03, 2008, 09:28:31 PM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"
And Mr Analag, I'm a novice tube circuit designer, if i can ever design some thing as clean as this i'd be happy. I have studied your circuit a lot. Its so simple(or is it!), well the output tube config confuses me a little! :guinness:

I'm really looking fwd to see what and how other people make theirs over the coming months.

Now i better compose some music!

Pete

 :grin:


Time and practice is all it takes.
It is interesting to see that my comp compares well to the LA2A, after all it started out as a clone of it, but after awhile I decided to tear it down and start again. A few years later I designed another optical comp...the mix buss version.

analag
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 03, 2008, 10:57:33 PM
OK.  Who's got part numbers for the molex locking wire to board connectors?  I've been looking at both their website and Mouser and my brain is spinning.  


Analag, I am really excited to hear what this design sounds like.  I also want to thank you for your hard work.

Volker, this layout is just beautiful.  It's just tidy and space is well used.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on April 03, 2008, 11:43:56 PM
Headers and Connectors                        
2 Pos with Ramp      538-22-23-2021            (10)      $2.16
3 Pos with Ramp      538-22-23-2031            (8)      $1.98
2 Pos with Ramp      538-22-01-2027            (10)      $1.17
3 Pos with Ramp      538-22-01-2037            (8)      $1.14
Crimp Terminals      538-08-50-0114            (58)      $5.06
From Mouser
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 04, 2008, 01:08:43 AM
Thanks!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 04, 2008, 03:26:32 AM
OK, in the middle of ordering stuff, designing frontpanel etc, i will pick up my board at the postoffice today, can't wait!  :cool:
I'm thinking of doing the potmeters for input and gain reductionwith elma 24 steps switches (have 2 new ones laying around here) and the output with lorlin 12 steps swicthes.
Anyone else going to do that?

I think for the output only about 12 db of reduction from -12 > 0 db is fine, is it?
About the input, is a 24 steps att really a must or will the 12 steps lorlin do fine? and what db range should i use?
The gainreduction pot, is there a particular range it's working in mostly? so that only a part of the pot range is used? will 12 steps do the job or should i insert the 24 steps there? or should i just order 2/4 more elma's?
Loads of questions/suggestions here.

For the rest... i can't wait to start building! Mine will have nice big sifam meters and a green or red panel  :grin:

I also read some posts about the 2W 39K, 214-2162 is the partnumber at RS, i had to order 10 so i have 8 left, so if anyone in the need for some? they are 0.18 each and not hard to send out (regular envelope will do)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 04, 2008, 03:59:55 AM
Partial Farnell list including the 2 watt 39k here :

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

For some reason the other 2 watt resistors are a touch to big, so won't quite
sit flush on the board, they still fit around the other components, but if that
bothers you, then go for another type.

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 04, 2008, 06:14:41 AM
Quote from: "dagoose"
OK, in the middle of ordering stuff, designing frontpanel etc, i will pick up my board at the postoffice today, can't wait!  :cool:
I'm thinking of doing the potmeters for input and gain reductionwith elma 24 steps switches (have 2 new ones laying around here) and the output with lorlin 12 steps swicthes.
Anyone else going to do that?

I think for the output only about 12 db of reduction from -12 > 0 db is fine, is it?
About the input, is a 24 steps att really a must or will the 12 steps lorlin do fine? and what db range should i use?
The gainreduction pot, is there a particular range it's working in mostly? so that only a part of the pot range is used? will 12 steps do the job or should i insert the 24 steps there? or should i just order 2/4 more elma's?
Loads of questions/suggestions here.

For the rest... i can't wait to start building! Mine will have nice big sifam meters and a green or red panel  :grin:

I also read some posts about the 2W 39K, 214-2162 is the partnumber at RS, i had to order 10 so i have 8 left, so if anyone in the need for some? they are 0.18 each and not hard to send out (regular envelope will do)


I was thinking the same thing. I've still ordered all pots to make a test version and to see how responsive everything is. That way it's easier to determine the resistance you want to cover with your stepped switch.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 04, 2008, 10:06:11 AM
Would this be the correct Relay for use with the 24v "utility" rail bypass
boards ?

http://uk.farnell.com/9949879/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=OMRON-ELECTRONIC-COMPONENTS-G5V-2-HI-24DC

Thanks,
Marty.

BTW- I have some nice "Reed" DPDT relays but they are @ 12v and I suspect that dropping the 24v rail down with an LM7812 would be a little hot!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 04, 2008, 10:32:24 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Would this be the correct Relay for use with the 24v "utility" rail bypass
boards ?

http://uk.farnell.com/9949879/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=OMRON-ELECTRONIC-COMPONENTS-G5V-2-HI-24DC

Thanks,
Marty.


Yes

Quote from: "MartyMart"
BTW- I have some nice "Reed" DPDT relays but they are @ 12v and I suspect that dropping the 24v rail down with an LM7812 would be a little hot!


Since you need two relays per board you can power them in series (2 X 12V = 24V).
Do you know what's the difference between a "normall" and a reed relay?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 04, 2008, 10:49:44 AM
Don't know what you mean, they are Clare LX200D00, Wayne at the Media
tech site told me they were "Reed" and good quality.
I used two of them in the Pico Comp with no problems.
Any board adaptation, or just using 2 x 12v relays will be fine " as is" ?

Thanks,
marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 04, 2008, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Don't know what you mean, they are Clare LX200D00, Wayne at the Media
tech site told me they were "Reed" and good quality.
I used two of them in the Pico Comp with no problems.


No prob. I was just curious what the difference between the two was....

Quote from: "MartyMart"

Any board adaptation, or just using 2 x 12v relays will be fine " as is" ?

Thanks,
marty.


Yes, there should be some board adaptation. I don't know the board so you're on your own here...Just power both relays in series.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rob_gould on April 04, 2008, 11:40:12 AM
Quote from: "radiance"

Do you know what's the difference between a "normall" and a reed relay?


http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/relay.htm#reed
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 04, 2008, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: "dagoose"

Anyone else going to do that?


I'm planning on doing that. I'm going to construct it with pots at first so I can play with it and see how it behaves. After I know what I want I will make the rotary switches. I have made attenuators in the past only to find then not right. I have learned my lesson.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 04, 2008, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Don't know what you mean, they are Clare LX200D00, Any board adaptation, or just using 2 x 12v relays will be fine " as is"

this should work:
(http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/ClareLX200D00.gif)
the green and blue lines are just wires (bottom side will look better)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 04, 2008, 01:30:01 PM
This raises even more questions from me.  Volker, can you post the overlay for the relay boards too?  

I'm not sure what's on there and I'd like to order all my stuff from Mouser at one time if I can.  Unless someone already threw together a shopping list from Mouser... :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 04, 2008, 01:38:33 PM
Thanks Volker, that's MUCH appreciated :-)

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on April 04, 2008, 01:44:28 PM
I have a Mouser project saved for the D-AOC but I don't know how to go about posting it. Also Excel sheet with parts from Mouser and the other places with parts Mouser doesn't have. Just didn't add in all the .25w resistors, cause I have those already. Anybody have any thoughts on posting it?

 I haven't tried out the parts yet cause the boards haven't gotten to the US of A yet! So you may have to double check everything.

What diodes are on the relay boards? and how many?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 04, 2008, 03:29:42 PM
Quote from: MikoKensington
Volker, can you post the overlay for the relay boards too?
for the relay board you should use (for each channel):
1 x Neutrik NC3FD-H connector
1 x Neutrik NC3MD-H connector
1 x Molex 2pin connector
2 x Molex 3pin connectors
2 x Omron G5V-2 relays
2 x 1N4148 diodes
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/HWBP36.gif)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 04, 2008, 03:37:19 PM
I ordered transformers from Edcor today. I alerted them that others would probably be calling. FYI it has the 250V 0.1A and the 9V 2.5A secondaries but not the 24V secondary.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 04, 2008, 03:47:52 PM
If you want to order the one I had made.  The part number is XPWR055.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 05, 2008, 08:51:22 AM
I took a chance and ordered these heat sinks.
Mouser 707-411915B25

Neither the catalog or the manufacturers website  gave the pitch of the mounting pegs. The other dimensions seemed right. I have a feeling the boards and the mouser order will arrive about the same time. I hope they fit. If not it's only a $2.50 mistake.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 05, 2008, 09:37:37 AM
Paul, I posted the exact heat sinks needed, they are now linked from the
first page of this thread !
Farnell have them and also an "undrilled" larger one that I shall use to mount
to the case for the LM350.
I'll cross my fingers that yours will fit though ..

Marty. :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 05, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
Ooops. Mouser has the onboard one 567-637-20ABP.

They don't have the off board one but I suppose the specific model  doesn't matter as much.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on April 05, 2008, 03:29:00 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
If you want to order the one I had made.  The part number is XPWR055.


What are the specs on this one? Also, how much does it cost? It would be great to have an inexpensive option in the states.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 05, 2008, 04:19:33 PM
120V primanry 250V 0.1A, 9V 2.5A secondaries. I ordered four and payed $34ea.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 05, 2008, 06:39:49 PM
Quote from: "OneRoomStudios"
Quote from: "MikoKensington"
If you want to order the one I had made.  The part number is XPWR055.


What are the specs on this one? Also, how much does it cost? It would be great to have an inexpensive option in the states.


2 X 115V Primaries.

Secondaries:
220V 0.1A
9V 2.5A
24V 0.5A

I think they are about $45 each.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: OneRoomStudios on April 05, 2008, 07:04:49 PM
Sorry, I just realized that the info as posted earlier in this thread. Should we all just order individually from Edcor, or will there be a group buy at some point?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: louder on April 05, 2008, 07:33:04 PM
Hi
does the zd 39v need to be 5w?
i have 1w,and if they would do....
best regards
pedro
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 05, 2008, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: "OneRoomStudios"
Sorry, I just realized that the info as posted earlier in this thread. Should we all just order individually from Edcor, or will there be a group buy at some point?


Well, I never heard anything back about a price break.  So, I can't say if a groupbuy would be beneficial or not.  They sent me the part number in an email after I ordered it.  

So consider the set-up fee my little gift to the group.  With guys sharing the results of many hours of design and experimentation, it's the least I could do.   :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 05, 2008, 07:54:26 PM
Quote from: "MikoKensington"


2 X 115V Primaries.

Secondaries:
220V 0.1A
9V 2.5A
24V 0.5A

I think they are about $45 each.



Hmmm. I think I ordered the wrong one. The one I ordered didn't have the 24V secondary. I better call on Monday.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 06, 2008, 03:10:11 AM
Quote from: "louder"
does the zd 39v need to be 5w?
i have 1w,and if they would do....

Pedro, mine (and those in my BOM) are 1,3W.
1W should be fine.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 06, 2008, 06:13:46 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
Quote from: "louder"
does the zd 39v need to be 5w?
i have 1w,and if they would do....

Pedro, mine (and those in my BOM) are 1,3W.
1W should be fine.


Yeah, I got 5w versions and they don't sit "flush" but they do fit in the board.
I don't know where I got the "5 watt" detail from, perhaps just an order
mistake...... over engineered now for sure !

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 07, 2008, 02:28:55 PM
Just placed a huge Mouser order.  Only a few parts left.  Anybody on Sinestar's heels yet?  

So, this may be a stupid question, but how are you guys wiring your bypass boards?  

1.  What type of switch?
2.  At which lugs on the bypass PCB?  
3.  One switch for both channels or independent bypasses?

Thanks all.   :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on April 07, 2008, 04:43:33 PM
miko' i know you did some hard work sourcing the componenrts for this project . but could you share(copy and paste )your mouser order to the forum. are you using the mk4p s i didnt see them at the correct values at mouser?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 07, 2008, 05:06:22 PM
Miko, my boards are done, just waiting on the tube sockets and traffo from
Musikding and also the case from tat !!
One issue, I don't have a powerful enough iron to get the damm heatsinks
to solder to the board ..... 'cos they are HUGE heatsinks ..... right !!


 :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 07, 2008, 05:10:53 PM
I don't have the time to type it all out.  It's a really long list.  The 1st page of the Thread has a link to the WIMA info.  I'll share what I have when I can get some time to upload some screenshots or something.  Photobucket is being an asshole.

I can't guarantee that the components are all right.  So, it's not my fault if you order the wrong stuff.  It's only my fault if I order the wrong stuff. :green:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/MikoKensington/Page_1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/MikoKensington/Page_2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/MikoKensington/Page3.jpg)


***THERE ARE A COUPLE EXTRA PARTs FOR OTHER PROJECTS ON HERE***  Check against Volker's basic list on page 1.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 07, 2008, 05:12:44 PM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
One issue, I don't have a powerful enough iron to get the damm heatsinks
to solder to the board ..... 'cos they are HUGE heatsinks ..... right !!

one tip :green:
try out the heatsink before soldering to the PCB :wink:
desoldering the heatsink is :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
 :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 07, 2008, 05:43:17 PM
I already spotted a discrepancy between the trimmer pots I ordered. :evil:   So disregard those.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ask on April 07, 2008, 05:47:15 PM
Does anybody know the total build cost of a stereo AOC unit? Tried searching - in vein. :roll:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 07, 2008, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: "ask"
Does anybody know the total build cost of a stereo AOC unit? Tried searching - in vein. :roll:


Always a tough one to answer, espacially since most folks here have some parts layin around...
If I remember correctly there is a BOM (bill of materials) for this project with order codes and all. Just order the whole darn thing and add the cost of the pcb, transformers and you're pretty close I guess.

And with order I don't mean actually ordering. Just go until you reach check out so you can see the price  :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 08, 2008, 02:06:21 AM
Quote from: "ask"
Does anybody know the total build cost of a stereo AOC unit? Tried searching - in vein. :roll:

You can build it cheap or expensive, it is hard to say.
I first wanted to use Panasonic NHG caps, but ended up using cheap "standard" caps - saved me EUR 40,-
the total of my prototype was around EUR 250,- incl. Transformers, Tubes and shipping to me.
the frontpanel is another story ...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 08, 2008, 04:14:08 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
Quote from: "MartyMart"
One issue, I don't have a powerful enough iron to get the damm heatsinks
to solder to the board ..... 'cos they are HUGE heatsinks ..... right !!

one tip :green:
try out the heatsink before soldering to the PCB :wink:
desoldering the heatsink is :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
 :green:


I couldn't get it to take with my little cheap 25w Iron, I'm taking the 350 off
board as you did - if that's what you mean, though I'm struggling to see how
I can use the case as a heatsink "plus" totally isolate the bolt from the case.
Extra nylon washers I guess .... the little special washers with internal "lip"
that work with a normal small heatsink, won't pass through the case wall also.

Perhaps ... but there will be a big "lump" so I'll use the case back instead of
the bottom.
MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 08, 2008, 04:22:57 AM
Quote from: ask
Does anybody know the total build cost of a stereo AOC unit? Tried searching - in vein. :roll:

Tough, as i'm ordering for 2/3 projects at once to save on multiple parts.
Here's a "rough" Idea :
Board and smaller parts ( resistors caps ) that I had  50 euros
All other components on the board  75 euros
Tubes/sockets/power traffo/ 10u caps 100 euros
case 85 euros
switches/knobs/pots/ audio traffo's  130 euros

Total 440 euros ( approx )

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ask on April 08, 2008, 06:09:39 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Quote from: "ask"
Does anybody know the total build cost of a stereo AOC unit? Tried searching - in vein. :roll:


Tough, as i'm ordering for 2/3 projects at once to save on multiple parts.
Here's a "rough" Idea :
Board and smaller parts ( resistors caps ) that I had  50 euros
All other components on the board  75 euros
Tubes/sockets/power traffo/ 10u caps 100 euros
case 85 euros
switches/knobs/pots/ audio traffo's  130 euros

Total 355 euros ( approx )

MM.


Doesn't that add up to 440 ? Or do you mean 2/3 of 440?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 08, 2008, 06:24:26 AM
Quote from: "ask"


Doesn't that add up to 440 ? Or do you mean 2/3 of 440?


DUH !  sorry missed the case @ 85 !!

Call it a "non case" approximation  :-)

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 08, 2008, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
I'm struggling to see how I can use the case as a heatsink "plus" totally isolate the bolt from the case.
Extra nylon washers I guess .... the little special washers with internal "lip"
that work with a normal small heatsink, won't pass through the case wall also.

one of those special nylon washers is enough. the screw doesn't have to be isolated, only the regulator. the washer goes through the regulator hole, so you are fine.
mounting it at the back of the case isn't a bad idea either. still needs to be isolated of course :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 08, 2008, 08:59:05 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
DUH !  sorry missed the case @ 85 !!

the EUR 250,- I paid is also without case, frontpanel, meters and knobs of course.
still the cheapest tube compressor I have build
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lookn4tone on April 09, 2008, 04:44:50 PM
This may seem like a very silly question; but, is there any reason why I couldn't use a 1n5401 diode in place of the 1N5400?  I have a bunch of the 01's and this would be a good time to use them if possible.  Thanks

Steve

Oh, is the jury out on input/output transformers yet?  Keeping the price down would be a good thing right about now.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 09, 2008, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
Quote from: "MartyMart"
DUH !  sorry missed the case @ 85 !!

the EUR 250,- I paid is also without case, frontpanel, meters and knobs of course.
still the cheapest tube compressor I have build


Absolutely - no complaint from me, just trying to price up for someone's
enquiry :-)
MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 09, 2008, 07:58:52 PM
FWIW I'm planning on running them without transformers since the output impedence is about 220 ohms.

I got my boards yesterday. They are a thing of beauty. Thanks Volker!

The heat sinks I ordered fit too!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ask on April 10, 2008, 05:18:57 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
Quote from: "MartyMart"
DUH !  sorry missed the case @ 85 !!

the EUR 250,- I paid is also without case, frontpanel, meters and knobs of course.
still the cheapest tube compressor I have build


Absolutely - no complaint from me, just trying to price up for someone's
enquiry :-)
MM.


Thanks guys!!  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 10, 2008, 07:07:04 AM
Im cheap, so im wondering if any of these could potentially work ok (im not expecting miracles here) for metering on the D-aoc.

PANEL METER 50µA 60x47
PANEL METER 100µA 70x60

If not, what should i look for?

Thanks for advice!
/Jonas
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 10, 2008, 07:13:18 AM
Jonas,
I tested a 250uA without any modifications in the meter circuit. It worked fine. Check whether they fit on your frontpanel! My advice: buy and try them.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 10, 2008, 07:18:18 AM
Thanks! I cannot find 250uA.

What would the difference be between say a 100uA meter and the 250uA you used in practical use?

I dont know anything at all how these meters work, so be gentle if its a stupid question.

 :green:
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 10, 2008, 07:41:36 AM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
Jonas,
My advice: buy and try them.

regards
Bernd
Title: BOM
Post by: nielsk on April 10, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
Has anyone come up with a complete BOM for this yet?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 10, 2008, 11:01:37 AM
Ok, i will then!
/J
Title: Re: BOM
Post by: MikoKensington on April 10, 2008, 11:09:20 AM
Quote from: "nielsk"
Has anyone come up with a complete BOM for this yet?


I think those that are diving into this project are still populating and assembling.  So until some testing takes place, I don't think anyone has a "complete" BOM yet.  There's enough info in this thread to order just about everything you need to get going though.

Here's a breakdown of where I order all my parts from.

Tube Depot www.tubedepot.com  This is where I got my:
2 watt resistors.  
Tube Sockets.
Potentiometers
Solen Fast Caps
Diodes

TAW Electronics www.tawelectronics.com This is where I got my:
WIMA MKP4 Caps
MKP4 104J400-6 for the 0.1uf 400v
MKP4 105J400-7 for the 1uf 400v
MKP4 224J400 for the 0.22uf 400v
(thanks to jrfred453 for that)

Small Bear Electronics www.smallbearelec.com  This is where to find:
VTL5C4/2 Photocoupler
Diodes

Mouser http://www.mouser.com/ This is where to find:
Just about everything else.  See my post on page 15.  Some errata.  Make sure both trimmer pots are both 3296W.  Also, I ordered my heatsinks to mount off board, so the may be too large for the PCB.  My order also had some fancy switches that I wanted and some extra TO220 insulators and such.  NOTE: the screw insulators are the wrong size too.
 
EDIT - The heatsinks fit the PCB for the two smaller footprints.  I'll need to order a larger one to mount off-board for the other rail.  


Radio Shack www.radioshack.com This is where I found:
Diodes
0.1 uF Caps
Nice to just walk in and buy something.

Par-Metal www.par-metal.com Get your:
Rack Case

Edcor www.edcorusa.com The source for:
Audio Transformers - XSM and WSM series.
Custom Power Transformer - XPWR055 (may want to verify the specs are the same when you order it)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: codered on April 10, 2008, 11:36:45 AM
Thanks a lot Miko-this will help  the US builders
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lookn4tone on April 10, 2008, 11:55:41 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned; but, Handmade Electronics has the Solens and PC mount tube sockets for US builds.  Price was right too.

http://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc/viewCat.asp
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 11, 2008, 10:04:10 AM
I know.. stupid question.. But it might also help some other people.
How do i connect the edcor IO trafo's?
The + - ground for the balanced side is simple, but what about the non balanced side? (so the compressor side)
Should i connect pin1 (+) to the postive and pin2 (CT) to ground or should i connect pin1 (+) to positive and pin4 (-) to ground?

(http://www.edcorusa.com/images/transformers/schematics/xsm.gif)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tony dB on April 11, 2008, 02:04:42 PM
I would connect pin1 (+) to positive and pin4 (-) to ground
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 11, 2008, 02:25:14 PM
C.T. isn't used, Tonys advice is right.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 11, 2008, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: "tony dB"
I would connect pin1 (+) to positive and pin4 (-) to ground


While i was posting my message i was looking again and had the same idea, wasn't 100% sure but now i am  :cool:
My D-AOC will hopefully be finished this week, just waiting for some caps, mains trafo, opto's and some potmeters from musikding, it's a 2u rack with sifams.. pics soooon!  :razz:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 11, 2008, 05:42:22 PM
hey guys,

On what secondary windings do I need center taps for the power transformer?

2 X 115V Primaries.

Secondaries:
220V 0.1A
9V 2.5A
24V 0.5A
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 11, 2008, 05:47:50 PM
no center taps needed here, just:

220V 0.1A
9V 2.5A
24V 0.5A (optional, just for the relays etc, and can be different voltage)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 11, 2008, 06:46:11 PM
Volker,

so If I'm not using the relays, I don't need the 24V?

if so thats awesome
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mcfarlane_audio on April 11, 2008, 10:36:03 PM
1N5373 looks like a good sub for the neon

68v 5w??

am i right ??

my 3 d-aoc's are coming along nicely, ill post some construction pics in a new thread soon
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 11, 2008, 11:04:32 PM
What size Mill Max pins fit in the board next to the opto for the LED?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 12, 2008, 04:14:08 AM
Quote from: "cannikin"
so If I'm not using the relays, I don't need the 24V

for the D-AOC itself you only need the Heater and High Voltage, that's right.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 12, 2008, 04:16:09 AM
Quote from: "mcfarlane_audio"
1N5373 looks like a good sub for the neon
68v 5w??

you can use any zener in the range of 60V to 70V I would say, and they don't have to be 5W.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 12, 2008, 06:57:02 AM
BTW, if anyone is in the need for 230v neon lights from conrad, i ordered 5 because that was the minimum order.. Now i have 5 bags with 5 lights  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 12, 2008, 07:20:10 AM
Hi,
my engraved front panel arrived.

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The-Raven-018.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The-Raven-019.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The-Raven-022.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The-Raven-024.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/The-Raven-026.jpg)

Big thanks to Rowan, Volker, Darius, Jens and Frank. Sorry for the oversized picture, I thought I already reduced them, but somehow twin-x behaves unpredictable.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 12, 2008, 09:07:12 AM
Bernd,
this is a GREAT looking D-AOC :green:  :green:  :green:
and your own design :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
when I get home from work (only 8 hours left):
 :sam:  :guinness:  :sam:  :guinness:  :sam:  to you :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: JanW on April 12, 2008, 10:17:00 AM
Uhhh that's a nice one  :grin:  :thumb:  :thumb:

I really like it
 :guinness:  :guinness:


Jan
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 12, 2008, 03:13:24 PM
Very nice build!  Probably one of the more compact builds we'll see. :grin:   I hope to finish mine in just a week or two.  I just need tubes, knobs, 24V regulator, 2k trimpot, and my front panel.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lookn4tone on April 12, 2008, 08:46:13 PM
Would an Ampex 4580200-01 transformer work on input on this.  It's supposed to be 10K:10K, and I have a couple laying around.  Does anyone know if these are any good for this application, or if they are decent for anything?  I saw CJ's evaluation; but, if anyone has any experience with them, I would be grateful to know about it.   I can't find much on the web about them.

Thanks,

Steve
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: sleepingtiger on April 12, 2008, 11:21:18 PM
Quote
Would an Ampex 4580200-01 transformer work on input on this. It's supposed to be 10K:10K, and I have a couple laying around. Does anyone know if these are any good for this application, or if they are decent for anything? I saw CJ's evaluation; but, if anyone has any experience with them, I would be grateful to know about it. I can't find much on the web about them.


I've got a couple of these as well and I'm planning on trying them...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 13, 2008, 06:22:49 AM
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/vudoac.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 13, 2008, 07:07:14 AM
D-AOC  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 13, 2008, 08:55:33 AM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
D-AOC  :grin:


dammit.... now i have to redo my frontpanel...  :evil:
Ok... my D-AOC is the tubo version called D-OAC!  :razz:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: 3nity on April 13, 2008, 08:59:48 AM
Quote
Ok... my D-AOC is the tubo version called D-OAC! Razz


lol
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 13, 2008, 10:11:21 AM
2 pics of the progress of my Turbo (liquid cooled tubes, gold trannies and more, way better then the D-AOC ) D-OAC beast!  :cool:
Still waiting for the mains trafo, optics, potmeters and the solen but it allready looking like a real one.
Frontpanel is done with lasertran (first time) and i'm quite happy with the result tough i made a scratch (dammit) on the panel.

(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/diy/d-aoc/d-aoc1.jpg)
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/diy/d-aoc/d-aoc2.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 13, 2008, 10:50:20 AM
:grin:  yes, keep them coming :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
you have made a realy nice looking D-OAC :green:
I like all your individual frontpannel ideas. :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: EEMO1 on April 15, 2008, 05:02:18 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]for the Meter:
the circuit is taken from the LA2A
(which uses a VU Meter)
btw, there is a 3K9 resistor needed in series with the VU which is not on the PCB
(since I wanted to have a switchable "Gain Reduction" / Output VU)

some comments from Keith:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25646

and how to calibrate it:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=23253&start=9
(R25 = R126 & R226 in the D-AOC)



 what about the jlm vu buffer?

"It turns cheap dc type VU meters into working VU meters."

 (trying to find vu meters to use in a 3u unit...)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 15, 2008, 05:06:34 AM
you can use the jlm vu buffer.
we have the PSU3 to power it :green:
Title: sweeeeet
Post by: EEMO1 on April 15, 2008, 05:40:54 AM
i guess im going to get a couple of those buffers just in case.

 i bought 2 boxes of meters a year ago. still have plenty left... :):)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: nhaudio on April 15, 2008, 05:52:06 PM
Hey guys if you're still shopping for parts like me  :grin:

You can find a lot (vactrol, wima caps, tube sockets, solen fast caps etc...) from http://www.banzaieffects.com/

They are located in germany, prices are good (for ex. solen 10uf/630v is 1,75 euro cheaper than dasmusikding).

they're just a bit slow at processing your order (4/5 days) but for the rest they have a very good service ( I ordered most of my g9 parts from them)

hope this will help you,

cheers,

nicolas
 :guinness:  :guinness:  :sam:  :sam:  :sam:  :sam:  :sam:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Kid Squid on April 16, 2008, 07:59:41 AM
Power Transformers here

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=328085#328085

If you want them....that is  :wink:

Steve
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 17, 2008, 12:34:48 PM
North American Guys,

My custom Edcor power transformer arrived today.  It is beautiful!   :grin:  Smells absolutely delicious too.  Time warp to building model cars and using Testor's enamel paint.  But I digress.

The unit is clearly labeled and very well finished.  I will post pictures later tonight when I get home to my camera.  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 17, 2008, 12:43:52 PM
Hey guys I just wanted to let you know I had my Power transformer built by
Heyboer Transformers, they also built my 10K:600 output transformers too.

http://heyboertransformers.com/index.shtml

The prices aren't as good as Edcor but the quality is pretty damn amazing and the output transformers is awesome.

65.00 for the power.
85.00 for the output.

They are a really cool "mom and pop" shop, nice people and easy to do business with.  Its easy, you email them with your request, they email you a price, you approve.  They will snail-mail you an invoice and you can pay via paypal (+3%) or send a check.  turnaround time is about 1 to 2 weeks.
Title: where getting solens?
Post by: kato on April 17, 2008, 02:30:58 PM
Where in the US, can I get the 10uF Solen Fast Caps?

I found them at parts express but the voltage is only 400v. (But 600v is specified on the PCB overlay.)

Thanks for any tips.
Title: Re: where getting solens?
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 17, 2008, 02:32:21 PM
Kato, 400V is ok
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dissonantstring on April 17, 2008, 03:18:09 PM
hi kato,
you can get 10uF / 630V Solen poly caps at Antique Electronics:
 https://secure.tubesandmore.com/
$6.50 each.
-grant
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kato on April 17, 2008, 04:26:22 PM
Thanks friends!!
I guess if the 10uF doesn't see > 400v I should just use that to avoid the hugeness of a 600v cap. (at least I imagine it will be huge.)

BTW - I bought a bunch of extra wimas to get a volume discount. If anyone is interested in saving a few bucks, let me know. You can glom onto my mini-"group buy."
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 18, 2008, 07:28:16 AM
added a link to the first post for all the US/north americans since there are still questions where to buy what.
MikoKensington did all the work for you here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=238
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 18, 2008, 05:38:51 PM
BTW Tube Depot doesn't have the 39k 2w. They have a 33k and a 47k. Is one of those close enough or should I look elsewhere?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 18, 2008, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: "Gold"
BTW Tube Depot doesn't have the 39k 2w. They have a 33k and a 47k. Is one of those close enough or should I look elsewhere?


mouser:

262-39K-RC

282-39K-RC
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 18, 2008, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: "Gold"
BTW Tube Depot doesn't have the 39k 2w. They have a 33k and a 47k. Is one of those close enough or should I look elsewhere?


I ordered a 33K and a 6.2K and put them in series.
Title: cheaper wimas in the BM
Post by: kato on April 18, 2008, 09:23:53 PM
I put my excess 10 sets of Wimas for sale in the Black Market . (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=328698)

Can someone verify that my quantities are correct?

From scanning the schematic and PCB it looks like:

 qty: 3 of the 1uF are needed
 qty: 2 of the 220nF
and qty: 6 of the 100nF

Please let me know if I've missed something so I can correct my black market post ASAP if need be. Thanks!  Kato
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 23, 2008, 02:39:48 PM
I ordered some big heat sinks that fit the board. Mouser 707-411626B25
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: cannikin on April 23, 2008, 06:31:44 PM
Hey for you US builders that haven't ordered caps yet and on a budget --

All electronics are selling Nichicon PB series 47uf 450V for $1 each.
Cat# 47R450S

105C, 0.8" diameter x 1.03" high


Don't get too excited just checked the foot print with a Caliper.... not gonna work
Title: Voltage readings
Post by: nielsk on April 23, 2008, 09:27:18 PM
It would be very helpful (for me, at least) to have the standard type tube gear voltage readings, at the resistor drop points. Can someone with a working unit please post the B+ voltages at R128, R127, R123, R118, R111, and R105?
This would be most appreciated!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 23, 2008, 10:05:17 PM
What is the minimum power rating for the 39v Zener diodes, D6,D7,D8?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rob Flinn on April 24, 2008, 05:16:36 AM
What is the regulated HT voltage for the D-AOC ??
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 24, 2008, 05:41:07 AM
Quote from: "Gold"
What is the minimum power rating for the 39v Zener diodes, D6,D7,D8?


1,3W
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 24, 2008, 05:52:44 AM
Quote from: "Rob Flinn"
What is the regulated HT voltage for the D-AOC ??

Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]with 470R + 47R resistors (silkscreened values) I get 238V after Rx28, close enough.
if you want to come closer to the 243V from analags schematic you can use a single 510R and a jumper, this gives me 241V (again, after Rx28
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: nielsk on April 25, 2008, 10:28:14 PM
does anyone have one up and running yet that can take voltage readings?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 26, 2008, 04:36:06 AM
Quote from: nielsk
does anyone have one up and running yet that can take voltage readings?
was a little hard to do, since all my tools and flukes etc are in a studio I'm building at the moment.
anyway, found my old (cheap) multimeter and a screwdriver, measuring is DC, no Input signal:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/Voltages.jpg)

[edit]: just recognized I used an older PCB overlay, but the measuring points are the same ...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 04:47:15 AM
dammit... i thought it's just a matter of hooking up and it's running but it's not..  :cry:
No sound coming through at all  :evil:

I have a blue led in anti parallel with the VTL and with a comibination of input/output level and compres pot i see the leds blink fast/slow, depenidng on the pot settings. The meters also show up as if it's compressing, same speed as the leds BTW (with no input at all at that moment)
All voltages seem to be ok according to the voltages as in pic above.
The neon lamps turn on, meters can be adjusted to 0db, everything seems to be working but no sound.  :roll:
I have edcor trafo's, solen caps etc, tubes light up, voltage is set to 6.3v etc.

Any ideas?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 26, 2008, 04:54:17 AM
do you have this problem in BOTH channels  :?:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 04:56:12 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]do you have this problem in BOTH channels  :?:


Yep, exactly the same.. even the leds blink at the same speed when i link 'm together.
What is think is strange is that there is no sound coming through at all.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 26, 2008, 05:04:47 AM
Quote from: "dagoose"
Yep, exactly the same.. even the leds blink at the same speed when i link 'm together.

so the stereo link is working fine :grin:
blinking could indicate oscillation, I think.
but forget the sidechain at the moment, first you need some sound coming thru.
Remove the sidechain tubes (VX02), and trace the input signal to see where it gets lost.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 26, 2008, 05:08:36 AM
Dagoose,
just a few things you can check:
- maybe the Input/Output pots are connected the other way round?
- I tested Russian equivalent tubes in my model, they don´t work (different pins)
- is there a signal before the output transformer?
- bypass the relay boards (if you used them) and connect XLRs directly to the main pcb. Mmmmh, otherwise?
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 05:08:47 AM
could someone please call me stupid please?  :evil:
I wired the bypass relays in the wrong way...  :roll:
One channel is allready working now and sounds nice!

dammit... have done like a LOT of hard bypass relays, this the first time i did it wrong.. grrr....
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 05:09:09 AM
could someone please call me stupid please?  :evil:
I wired the bypass relays in the wrong way...  :roll:
One channel is allready working now and sounds nice!

dammit... have done like a LOT of hard bypass relays, this the first time i did it wrong.. grrr....
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 05:09:25 AM
could someone please call me stupid please?  :evil:
I wired the bypass relays in the wrong way...  :roll:
One channel is allready working now and sounds nice!

dammit... have done like a LOT of hard bypass relays, this the first time i did it wrong.. grrr....
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 05:11:02 AM
ok... now i'm even stupid with posting 3 times the same post!  :razz:

OK, time for some double espresso and after that some rewiring.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 26, 2008, 05:12:48 AM
:thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on April 26, 2008, 06:42:34 AM
Quote from: "dagoose"

OK, time for some double espresso and after that some rewiring.


Go easy on that expresso........ :cool:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 09:37:15 AM
Quote from: "radiance"
Quote from: "dagoose"

OK, time for some double espresso and after that some rewiring.


Go easy on that expresso........ :cool:


Real Espresso has less caffeine then a regular coffee because of the high pressure, most people think that espresso has way more caffeine then regular coffee.  :guinness:

I know what went wrong with the relays:
Usually i use the small finder relays and i know out of my head how to wire those.
I ordered the wrong finders recently, still 12v coil but just a bit bigger and louder clicking of the contacts  :green:
There is also another difference.. the centre contact is in the centre instead of on the sides, bypass worked but as soon as i powered it nothing happened..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 10:08:39 AM
OK, looks like it's working perfectly! :cool:
Sounds pretty cool, really smooth sounding, not like a pumping compressor but i think it really smoothens the mix.
The only thing i notice right now is that when link is enganged and i send a 1khz tone there is about 5/6 db gain reduction difference between left and right.
When they are not linked it's all fine and both channels are allmost 100% the same in compression.
Is there some kind of way, maybe like in the 1176 link mode to tweak it?



(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/doac3.jpg)
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/doac4.jpg)
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/doac5.jpg)

And for those interested a AB switching hardbypass and with DOAC (yep mine is called the DOAC) in 24bit 44.1khz WAV.
http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/doacsound.wav
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 26, 2008, 10:43:08 AM
Hey,
looks as cool as the music in the soundsample. Great, that you solved the problem with the relays. Happy Compressing  :thumb:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 26, 2008, 11:07:49 AM
very nice - and your own designed frontpanel. :thumb:
not seen so often these days :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 26, 2008, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]very nice - and your own designed frontpanel. :thumb:
not seen so often these days :green:

Thanks!

First i worked with lasertran and i think it worked out pretty cool.
Only thing was that i messed up the layout.. i wanted it to be mirrored but after i finished it i found out i swithed the input and output on one side.  :?
This was quite a simple to dril panel so that is why i did it myself this time.

I'm playing with it right now and i really like it, bass is tight and highs are really fresh.
Thanks for this project guys! Have a beer or 2, i'll pay for it!  :sam:  :sam:

Did some test with RMAA and it has 102,9db dynamic range, THD is at 0.159 right now. Freq response is below, not sure if the high boost is the tubes or trannies but i think it's quite good.
I used edcor XSM trannies.


(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/freq.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 26, 2008, 11:24:07 AM
Quote from: "dagoose"
Only thing was that i messed up the layout.. i wanted it to be mirrored but after i finished it i found out i swithed the input and output on one side.  :?

good you messed this up :green:  :green:  :green:
personally I think mirrored is a pain, even if it sometimes looks better.
but in use ...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 26, 2008, 12:24:32 PM
very nice! top wiring job too.

I'm wondering of those are the same EDCOR Tx's as mine, you seem to have slightly better HF response..

also I get the same level difference as you in link mode, but I hardly ever use compressors in that mode even across the buss so im not so bothered..

 Bernd: yours looks awesome too, I wish I lived in Germany so I could have 'Sassenberg, Germany'...now that is a nice touch!

Pete
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Infernal_Death on April 27, 2008, 05:25:18 AM
Just finished my DAOC. Seems like a cool unit although i didn't have time to really listen to it. Just looked if it passes audio and controls doing what they are supposed to do. Meters and knobs are still missing though.

(http://mitglied.lycos.de/InfernalDeath/DAOC1.jpg)

Thanks to Volker and Analag for making and releasing this project  :guinness:   :thumb:

Flo
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 27, 2008, 05:38:16 AM
nice build :thumb:
you will show us the front when meters and knobs are in, won't you :green:  :green:  :green:

keep them coming, I like it :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on April 27, 2008, 06:02:19 AM
this is fun!

 :thumb:  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 27, 2008, 06:10:09 AM
yes - everybody has to do a photo from the front.

than we can rack them up all together in Photoshop to see hundreds of different looking D-AOCs :thumb:

 :green:  :green:  :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on April 27, 2008, 06:21:50 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]yes - everybody has to do a photo from the front.

than we can rack them up all together in Photoshop to see hundreds of different looking D-AOCs :thumb:

 :green:  :green:  :green:


great idea!!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 27, 2008, 06:41:05 AM
started:

(http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/D-AOC_Rack.jpg)

still have to order the rack and the screws :green:

dagoose, could you do a straight photo of your front so we can add your D-OAC to the Rack ? :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 27, 2008, 12:17:02 PM
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/D-AOC_Rack.jpg)

nice rack you've got  :razz:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 27, 2008, 12:39:00 PM
DaGoose,

How large are the steps on your switches and what level range did you settle on?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 27, 2008, 12:53:12 PM
Quote from: "Gold"
DaGoose,

How large are the steps on your switches and what level range did you settle on?


Right now i used 12 stepped swithes for in and output with about 20db of range, i think that is ok.
I plan to do the compresser pot as a 24 steps switch but i'm not sure what value/range to choose right now, still have to figure that out, anyone?
i really don't need a big range, i probably use the compressor 90% for mastering so tracking is important for me.

BTW, i have one small issue with my beast, the neon lights flicker every couple of seconds, i think all neon lights do that but on the left channel the meter hops about 2mm from side to side when that happens.
The right channel doesn't have that.
I allready tried a different neon light without much result, maybe it's better to use a zener instead of the neon light?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 27, 2008, 05:53:52 PM
Quote from: "dagoose"
I plan to do the compresser pot as a 24 steps switch but i'm not sure what value/range to choose right now, still have to figure that out, anyone?


I plan on using 24pos switches for the three controls. I'm a couple of weeks away from getting one up and running and in a case. I would like the threshold range to be from -8 dBu to +12dBu. This would be the most useful range for me.

I know the input pot affects the range of the threshold pot but I don't know whether the output pot does too. I think I need to listen to it and determine how hard I want to drive the output amplifier in regular use. Then adjust the input range around unity gain. Then put an LED in parallel with the opto to make the top of the threshold range about +12dBu. Then figure out the resistor values for the threshold switch. All plans subject to change without notice.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 27, 2008, 06:05:38 PM
dagoose: thanks for the updatede rack :green:
(am I allowed to use your rack screws ?)

Gold: the output control doesn't affect the threshold control at all.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 27, 2008, 06:55:17 PM
I was reading over the original threads and saw this:

Quote
I use a tube connected exactly as you see in my schematic, you may use a resistor in series with the LED say 120-470 ohms, this will tune the slope of the unit.


Has anyone tried this? It looks like Volker tried a resistor in parallel.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on April 29, 2008, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: "dagoose"
BTW, i have one small issue with my beast, the neon lights flicker every couple of seconds, i think all neon lights do that but on the left channel the meter hops about 2mm from side to side when that happens.
The right channel doesn't have that.
I allready tried a different neon light without much result, maybe it's better to use a zener instead of the neon light?


I had the same effect with 1mA meters. The neon lights even went off while turning the trimpot for the meters. With the Sifam VU this problem didn´t occur. My guess: Meters above 220 uA draw too much current. Since I´m not an electronic expert, you shouldn´t nail me on that.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 29, 2008, 11:43:14 AM
I had this with one channel on my D-LA2A, but it disappeared after a few days of use - without changing anything.
may be something has to "burn in" ? don't know ... :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 29, 2008, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: "Gold"
Has anyone tried this? It looks like Volker tried a resistor in parallel.

must have over-read this before and haven't tried it. wouldn't be hard to mod it like this.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 29, 2008, 02:19:46 PM
OK.  This may be a very basic question here, but what are you guys using for fuses?  Fused IEC jacks?  Inline, ala Auto?  What rating?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 29, 2008, 02:39:34 PM
I'm using some fused IEC recepticles I got at All Electronics. I just checked and they don't have them anymore. They were cheap. I thought I would use a 3ag fuse. 2.5 seems like it's cutting it close.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 29, 2008, 02:43:08 PM
I use a fused IEC, and have no problems with a 250mA slow blow fuse at 230V
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 29, 2008, 02:45:48 PM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]I use a fused IEC, and have no problems with a 250mA slow blow fuse at 230V


Oh. I thought since the heater secondary was rated for 2.5A it used that much current. I guess not.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 29, 2008, 02:48:29 PM
that's right at the secondary (9V), but not at the primary.
for 110V 500mV slow blow should be fine.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on May 02, 2008, 07:20:33 AM
Is it generally possible to use 15k transformers instead of the proposed 10k's? I have some Altec 15k:15K and 15k:600R and I am wondering if they would fit.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on May 02, 2008, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: "cannikin"
Hey guys I just wanted to let you know I had my Power transformer built by
Heyboer Transformers, they also built my 10K:600 output transformers too.

http://heyboertransformers.com/index.shtml

The prices aren't as good as Edcor but the quality is pretty damn amazing and the output transformers is awesome.

65.00 for the power.
85.00 for the output.

They are a really cool "mom and pop" shop, nice people and easy to do business with.  Its easy, you email them with your request, they email you a price, you approve.  They will snail-mail you an invoice and you can pay via paypal (+3%) or send a check.  turnaround time is about 1 to 2 weeks.


Hi David, I'll try them.  

What secondaries and specs did you get on the power transformer?  

I just got a quote from them  $85 for the power, but I asked for shielding, maybe that was extra?

And is that price for two outputs total 85, or 85 / each?

cheers.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on May 03, 2008, 01:11:04 PM
Just fired my D-AOC up for the first time and everything's working perfectly.

Now it's time for cold :sam:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 03, 2008, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: "Benny"
Now it's time for cold :sam:

... and some nice pictures :green:  :green:  :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on May 03, 2008, 02:24:03 PM
Quote from: "Benny"
Just fired my D-AOC up for the first time and everything's working perfectly.

Now it's time for cold :sam:


Fine, Benny, the so called "Jungfernbestromung" has worked. Let the pics come, yeah.  :thumb:  :thumb:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on May 04, 2008, 03:23:22 AM
Guinness is good.

analag
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 04, 2008, 03:33:45 AM
Quote from: "analag"
Guinness is good.

this is for you :guinness:  :guinness:  :guinness:

analag, we have to add the mother of the D-AOCs to the D-AOC rack :green:
can you send me a foto of your front pannel ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on May 04, 2008, 04:10:05 PM
Quote from: "Holger"
Is it generally possible to use 15k transformers instead of the proposed 10k's? I have some Altec 15k:15K and 15k:600R and I am wondering if they would fit.
I'm wondering the same about the input xfmr as I've got a cinmemag 15k:15K going unused at the moment.

Would it be as simple as strapping something across the scondaries of the xfmr? :oops:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on May 05, 2008, 12:01:15 AM
The mother of the AOC is mono. I will post a pic of it soon.

Cinemag 15K:15K is perfect...you can strap a 10K or a 15K resistor across the secondary. With 15K as my preference.

analag
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on May 16, 2008, 08:57:23 AM
Since DAOC uses common ECC8X valves - would there be any problem using 12 Volt DC for heaters - not on this PCB - just thinking ahead :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on May 19, 2008, 05:39:27 PM
Do the tubes need to be matched?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 20, 2008, 03:20:57 AM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
Since DAOC uses common ECC8X valves - would there be any problem using 12 Volt DC for heaters - not on this PCB - just thinking ahead :thumb:

I can't see a problem - but don't try it with this PCB :twisted:


Quote from: "flintan"
flintan

no - at least mine are not :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on May 20, 2008, 06:15:45 AM
Ok. Thanks. Then i will try it unmatched, if my tubes turn out way bad i'll probably notice anyway..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 25, 2008, 05:19:06 AM
ok, finally I'm ready to use my D-AOC:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4989.JPG)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4988.JPG)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4984.JPG)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4982.JPG)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/IMG_4980.JPG)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on May 25, 2008, 06:09:28 AM
beautiful as always! Are those Haufe input irons? which led do you prefer for lower compression threshold (I'm guessing that's what the silentarts switch does)?

regards
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 25, 2008, 06:20:07 AM
for the Input I decided to use Haufe RK310 transformers.
yes, the [sient:arts] mode is a blue LED in parallel, the ANALAG mode is completely without any mod.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on May 25, 2008, 06:51:19 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]yes, the [silent:arts] mode is a blue LED in parallel, the ANALAG mode is completely without any mod.


A new brand is born "the [silent:arts] compression slope characteristic". I don´t dare to speculate about "ANALAG mode". Volker, excellent work, when will you put it into the "virtual rack"  :thumb:  :thumb:  :sam:  :guinness:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 25, 2008, 06:53:50 AM
(http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/D-AOC/D-AOC_Rack.jpg)

 :green:  :green:  :green:
but we need some more
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 02, 2008, 08:22:29 AM
Im on it!

Nearly finished stuffing the pcb. Mine wont be as pretty on the outside though (yet). Im making a prototype frontpanel, and hopefully a nice panel sometime later when i can afford it.

What value have you guys used for the mains fuse btw?

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 03, 2008, 04:14:22 PM
have to look when I'm at home again (in a few days)

I think it was 500mA medium
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on June 03, 2008, 09:08:06 PM
Just a quick question about the NE2.

The ones i can get from my local store are rated at 90v, the ones I see you guys using are at 65v.

If its acting like a zener, does it need to be closer to the 65v, or dosen't it really matter?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 04, 2008, 05:57:23 AM
Thanks! Another quick question. Must the 470pf ceramic cap be of good quality, or will any old 470pf i have lying around do just fine? Im not completely sure what it does in the circuit so thats why im asking.

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 04, 2008, 11:11:13 AM
the NE should be closer to 65V in my opinion.
the 470pf - just take what you have
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 04, 2008, 11:23:31 AM
cool, thanks!
Im thinking of buying some cheap meters from my local electronics store and trying in this circuit.

Would there be any point in hooking the meter up through somthing like this to lower THD created from the cheap meter?:

http://www.jlmaudio.com/AT51%20DIY%20VU.pdf

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 04, 2008, 11:36:50 AM
showing gainreduction there is no THD added.
to be honest: I never use the output mode for the meter, except for troubleshooting (where the added THD is unimportant)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 04, 2008, 12:30:47 PM
Ok, then ill skip it and save a few hours buildtime.
Thanks!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: synthi on June 04, 2008, 12:53:28 PM
Quick question:

I don´t have the 1n5371 at hand, but I have either 1N5372 or 1N5370.

the 5371 is a 60V zenner,  5370 is 56V and 5372 is 62V, So ithink I can use either in place?

Synthi
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 04, 2008, 01:38:57 PM
Volker I have LL1521 input and LL3814 output traffo's available, would these
do the job, I think they are 1-3 and 1-1 by default ?

Regards,
Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 04, 2008, 01:48:21 PM
Marty,
I used the LL1521 in mine as well , wired it 1:2, works fine. Try the LL3814, it´ll do the job.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 04, 2008, 01:52:14 PM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
Marty,
I used the LL1521 in mine as well , wired it 1:2, works fine. Try the LL3814, it´ll do the job.
regards
Bernd


Thanks Bernd, I got hold of them for this purpose but there's not much info
at LL about them other than basic hookup.
Did you have to do anything "funky" or add resistor/cap across the output??

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 04, 2008, 01:55:51 PM
Ups,
the LL3814 has a 3+3:1+1 ratio, save it for other projects and take a cheap Edcor 10K/600R, works great.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 04, 2008, 02:02:34 PM
Anyone do the Edcors in Europe ??

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 04, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
ask our member TonydB.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on June 05, 2008, 03:32:12 PM
Just to clarify things; The unit does not compress until you put in a LED in parallel with the vactrol...?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 05, 2008, 03:36:41 PM
No.
But without any mod you need a huge input level for compression.
which isn't good for THD, btw.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rob Flinn on June 05, 2008, 04:43:05 PM
Having a bit of a problem with my unit here.  Can someone post some anode, grid, & cathode voltages for the 12at7/ecc81 ?  Preferably from a perfectly working unit ;-)
 

Also what should the HT voltage be ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pH on June 06, 2008, 12:50:12 AM
Rob,
I've got 243vdc HT, on the 12AT7 I see 96v on the plate and 1.3v on the cathode. My voltages are a bit lower than Volker's but all within reason:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=290

I've had a bit of trouble with heat shutting down the voltage regulators unless I'm driving with the top down. I tried to go with the sinks on board but I guess I'll have to join the exodus overboard.

I know everyone is already drooling over the next project (Poorchild) but I have to say this compressor is killing me on drums. A very fine design.
Hats off to our friends Analag and Volker  :guinness:  :sam:  :guinness:  :sam:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 06, 2008, 04:10:01 AM
PH - Isn't it just the 350 reg that has to go "off board" ?
Mine is ready to bolt onto the back plate of the case.

MM
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 06, 2008, 04:28:47 AM
just the heater regulator, right.
don't forget to mount it isolated and double check with a meter before firing up :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pH on June 06, 2008, 05:37:23 PM
Yep, the 350 is the one that seems to be the culprint. When it starts to shut down your heater voltage sinks, and the the HT will rise until it takes the fuse down. Seems like that LM783 is getting just as hot, to touch at least. I'm going to bolt them both (isolated, of course) to the chassis.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 11, 2008, 08:27:28 AM
I have a question. My power transformer has a secondary for the psu3 that is 24Volts. I ordered 12v relays, and a lm7812 regulator. Is that too much voltage for the 7812 to drop? I have the silkscreened heatsink attached to it, the 51mm high version.

Or will i have to order new relays?
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 11, 2008, 08:33:38 AM
I would order the 24V relays.
24V to 12V is a bit much in my opinion.

you will need the 12V relays for the Poor Man Bypass :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 11, 2008, 08:37:16 AM
Jonkan, look back several pages as I have a similar problem, 12v relay's
but a 24v reg ( your 12 will indeed have to drop too much and will overheat)
Volker drew up a wiring picture for using the 12v relay's in series with a
few trace cuts and 2 x wires added.
Perhaps it will work the same for yours too running off a 24v reg.

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 11, 2008, 09:01:45 AM
Quote from: "MartyMart"
Volker drew up a wiring picture for using the 12v relay's in series with a few trace cuts and 2 x wires added.

ah, yes :grin:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=194
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 11, 2008, 09:35:48 AM
Perhaps ill just skip the bypass altogether on this one and do it on my poor mans instead.

I have never really used bypass anyway on anything ive built so far.

I still have a shipment waiting from musikding though. Would these 24v relays fit on the bypass pcb? I guess i could always ask him to ship it with my other stuff if i decide to order them.

http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1612_Finder-3022-12-2PDT-24V.html

this relay is what i have:
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1076_Omron-G5V-2-2xUM-12V.html

possible to mod with volkers solution?

Thanks!!!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on June 11, 2008, 09:43:50 AM
Klaus (Musikding) said it's also possible to get the omron's in 24V - just write him an email - he has various parts in stock that aren't online yet (eg. LM337 etc.)

hth, christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 11, 2008, 05:18:10 PM
Ok, will do!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on June 11, 2008, 05:30:08 PM
After putting my D-AOC stuff in the new case and testing it I've got a problem with the right channel.
Both channels input and output pots work, both channels are compressing
but the second channel has no bass. Just high frequencies and it sounds like it is distorting when it's compressing heavily. I just checked if I've got some wrong parts in channel 2. But compared to channel 1 everything seems to be the same. I'm using Edcor WSM on input and XSM on output.
I'm gonna look over it again tomorrow morning. Any ideas?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 11, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
Benny,
did you use the relais boards as well? Which XLR connectors did you use?Check the polarity for relais power. Check also the transformer wiring (pin 1 is +, pin 4 is -) Can´t imagine that you´ve got wrong parts in there.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: synthi on June 11, 2008, 06:59:55 PM
Quote
Quick question:

I don´t have the 1n5371 at hand, but I have either 1N5372 or 1N5370.

the 5371 is a 60V zenner, 5370 is 56V and 5372 is 62V, So I think I can use one of them in place?


Anyone???
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on June 11, 2008, 07:25:52 PM
I think that your 62 volt version will be fine and dandy.
It's not an exact value, just needs to be "around" 60 v.
MM
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: synthi on June 11, 2008, 07:45:00 PM
thx MM!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on June 12, 2008, 04:16:55 AM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
Benny,
did you use the relais boards as well? Which XLR connectors did you use?Check the polarity for relais power. Check also the transformer wiring (pin 1 is +, pin 4 is -) Can´t imagine that you´ve got wrong parts in there.
regards
Bernd


Hi Bernd,

I'm not using the relay boards at the moment. I'm using standard Neutrik XLR connectors. I'm gonna check the transformer connections again.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 12, 2008, 06:09:28 AM
Klaus from musikding had some 24v omron relays coming in soon, cool!

Now i just need to figure out if i need 12v relays for my future poor mans 660 or 24v there too.

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 12, 2008, 06:47:22 AM
keep your 12V relais for the PM670, you´ll need them :wink:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 14, 2008, 10:45:54 AM
Will do!

Im trying to decide what edcor to use on the input. The XSM 10k:10k frequency plot looks strange to me so now its probably down to either xs1100 or the WSM 10k:10k for me.

If i understood correctly analag recommended the XSM line for the PM660, but was that just for that compressor, or in general?

Any suggestions on what to consider here, or is it basically either one is fine?


/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 14, 2008, 12:53:23 PM
i was just sourcing parts and have a few questions. i see that there are single turn trimmer pots and multi. what does that mean? one stepped (multi),one continuous(single)? which do i want for this project? i see there are holes for 4 posts on the board. most trimmers ive seen(not many) have 3 pins. is this for different pin out options or am i looking for a 4 pin trimmer?
what should i be looking for(specs) when ordering the blue and/or red  LEDs there are many options that i have no understanding of.What should i be looking for?
thanks for any help
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lofi on June 14, 2008, 01:01:20 PM
single turn covers the range in 360 deg, multi in many turns.

think the wholes cover the various types available?

just rough guesses while passing through

Iain
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kazper on June 14, 2008, 01:05:10 PM
Just to add a little more to Lofi's description.

Single turn will get you there sometimes with a little fuss, Multiturn will get you exactly there.

I used multiturns myself..
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 16, 2008, 08:09:17 AM
Sorry if im asking too many questions.. Will i need to use shielded cable for the connections inside the box? Or will just twisting the wires to the trick?

If its better to use shielded cable for all the connections, can i use the shield on the cable for the ground connection on the pots since i dont have any shielded cable with three conductors+shield at hand, only 2 conductors+shield...?

Thanks!
/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 16, 2008, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: "Jonkan"

If its better to use shielded cable for all the connections, can i use the shield on the cable for the ground connection on the pots

yes and yes
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChuckD on June 18, 2008, 05:03:05 AM
Still want to tweak the compression amount but this unit sounds great!
Here's my version...


(http://pillarsofnein.com/diy_projects/Analag_Opto_Comp/Photos/chuck_Aopto2.jpg)
(http://pillarsofnein.com/diy_projects/Analag_Opto_Comp/Photos/chuck_Aopto3.jpg)
(http://pillarsofnein.com/diy_projects/Analag_Opto_Comp/Photos/chuck_Aopto6.jpg)
(http://pillarsofnein.com/diy_projects/Analag_Opto_Comp/Photos/chuck_Aopto7.jpg)


Thanks Analag ,  Volker  and Darius ! :wink:

-ChuckD
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 18, 2008, 05:12:35 AM
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Chuck, what a beauty. speechless.
your DIY throughput is killing me :twisted:
and all your individual front panels are f###ing GREAT.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on June 18, 2008, 05:30:36 AM
Yessire!!
THAT's an awesome looking piece of kit you've got there mate  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 18, 2008, 06:14:50 AM
Charles,
I´m searching for the right words, but your gear makes me speechless. I´m  really impressed by your incredible motivation to build all these excellent units. At the moment there are a lot of interesting projects. Having such a great input and seeing this amazing output makes me really happy.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on June 18, 2008, 06:19:48 AM
Wow. I'm impressed. Another piece of art.  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on June 18, 2008, 07:27:12 AM
What a beauty!!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on June 19, 2008, 06:49:18 AM
yeah!!! WOW!!!

Looks incredible!!!

I have no idea how to make something even remotely as good looking as your unit, or any of the other units you other guys have built for that matter. Very impressed!

Im still trying to find some nice scales for my fpd file. Anyone that has any good hpgl scale files for 25mm knobs?

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lofi on June 22, 2008, 07:29:37 PM
(http://pillarsofnein.com/diy_projects/Analag_Opto_Comp/Photos/chuck_Aopto7.jpg)

been all over the web looking for meters like that, with no luck

Sir, that is one of the most beautiful panels i have seen!!!

i am in Awe

Iain
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: electrochronic on June 23, 2008, 12:26:03 PM
Can some one link me to Edcor or Hayboyer power transformers for this project in US

Please include required quantity, model #'s , prices, specs , looking to power a stereo PCB.

Interested in a torroid type.

Here is what I gathered so far

Edcor  XPWR055 ( specs not confirmed )  $45
Primaries  115v x 2
Secondaries  220v/0.1A , 9v/2.5A, 24V 0.5A


Hayboyer ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on June 23, 2008, 05:33:56 PM
I just received my Edcor power transformer a few days ago. I just called them up gave them the model number you listed above. It took about a week to wind it. The secondary windings were the voltages you listed.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on June 27, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
I thought I read (Volker - possibly?) said the cap values for the relay psu were to big - holding the channels in circuit for too long 3 to 4 secs, with power removed. Did these get changed to make the bypass drop out quicker :?:

I asked about running valves on 12V heaters - would this have any bearings on the gain of the circuit?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on June 30, 2008, 01:13:52 AM
I'm about to fire up my D-AOC for the first time. I noticed that my 350T regulator had continuity with the heatsink. After messing with it for a while a realized it still had continuity without the regulator even touching the heatsink. This isn't normal is it? What should I be checking for?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 30, 2008, 04:35:43 AM
measured with the tubes in ?
put the tubes out ...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on June 30, 2008, 07:43:57 AM
That was it. :oops:
Thanks Volker.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 02, 2008, 03:16:42 PM
I have trouble with my PSU. I get 10V, 27V and some 277V AC from my transformer, seems to be ok.
The heater PSU is set to 6.3V with the tubes not fitted.
With tubes plugged in I get some 1.3V, Is that correct?
The 27V are reduced to 12V. Fine, I use a 12V reg.
The biggest problem is the high voltage part. Even with the tubes fitted I get way more than 320V (V increases over time, I measured more than 340V on one occasion), I usually disconnect mains then, so no further measurements. The 300+V are measured at R128.
I replaced the TL 783, no improvement. Any hints for me?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on July 02, 2008, 03:50:56 PM
Holger,
what are the specs of your transformer? 27V to 12V regulated seems quite a lot, the regulator must get very hot. The 277V AC from transformer is too high as well, should be 250V AC. Heater voltage with tubes plugged in is way too low. Measure/compare your voltages with Volkers:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=290

I suppose your transformer specs are wrong.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 04, 2008, 12:54:40 PM
Those voltages don't look too far off spec if he's measured off load - admit - the 27V is a bit high. Is it the ring250 tx from Musikding? These were delayed batch - originals had wrong windings - I hope this not problems with new batch. I'm close to firing up DAOC with the tx I received 2 days ago.
Fingers crossed - will keep you posted :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 04, 2008, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: "Holger"
I have trouble with my PSU. I get 10V, 27V and some 277V AC from my transformer, seems to be ok.
The heater PSU is set to 6.3V with the tubes not fitted.
With tubes plugged in I get some 1.3V, Is that correct?
The 27V are reduced to 12V. Fine, I use a 12V reg.
The biggest problem is the high voltage part. Even with the tubes fitted I get way more than 320V (V increases over time, I measured more than 340V on one occasion), I usually disconnect mains then, so no further measurements. The 300+V are measured at R128.
I replaced the TL 783, no improvement. Any hints for me?


I had similar problem with another valve box - i had broken 0v return for heaters - so it measured ok at psu but no return from heaters. The tubes didn't heat up so the HT went well high - TL783 can't regulate if no current drawn. You may have a dry joint in heater circuit - try resoldering valve skt and psu joints. If you suspect valves - then hang a power resistor on heater pins - say 4R7 - will draw over an amp and let you know if heater circuit is ok.
Oh just remembered - some say the onboard heatsink is not enough - LM350 get too hot and shuts down resulting in high HT. Try one channel with valves in  - is the heatsink too hot to touch - if so you need bigger heatsink/bolt reg to chassis(insulated of course)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 04, 2008, 01:41:56 PM
mikeyB, thanks for your very good hints, I will look at my board tomorrow.
And yes, the transformer is from Musikding. I'll update this...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 04, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
Quick transformer question, the German built one from Musikding.

Primary side, using Yellow/Lilac from fused power switch and connect the
White & Orange together and heat shrinked/ isolated.

This is correct for 250v operation right ?

Thanks,
Martin.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 04, 2008, 02:04:16 PM
MartyMart, that's the way I'd connected it. Do you guys have 250V now? Here we have some 235V ;-).
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 04, 2008, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: "Holger"
MartyMart, that's the way I'd connected it. Do you guys have 250V now? Here we have some 235V ;-).


Thanks Holger , no 240v but commonly about 244 to 248 here !!
I hope that i don't have one of the "bad" windings ones from Musikding !!!!
The written info seems correct on the traffo.

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 04, 2008, 02:31:14 PM
just to clarify:
- the LM350 is for the Heaters and can regulate without a load
- the TL783 is for the B+ and needs a load to work

if the Heater Voltage drops down there must be a fault!
try out one tube after the other in one tube socket after the other.

for the B+
Quote from: "silent:arts"
!!! be aware that this PSU needs a load to work properly, with no tubes inserted you will have more than 350V !!!
!!! with no tubes inserted the High Voltage caps need a very long time to discharge, read the safety rules again !!!
if you are unsure and afraid of the tubes, test with only one channel fitted first.

fix the heaters first. I assume the B+ PSU won't make a difference between none or unheated tubes.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 04, 2008, 02:45:50 PM
Thanks Volker, I'll try to fix the heater problem first.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 04, 2008, 06:08:36 PM
Just noticed - I got 2Meg trimmers for the meter - they had no 1Meg in stock at the time - am I ok paralleling a 2M2 across the 2Meg trimmer - will this work or do I defo need 1M trimmer? Need to know b4 I bolt the pcb down!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 04, 2008, 06:21:52 PM
Hi Mikey,

no problem with the paralleled resistors.
but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't necessary.
but since I haven't tested this I can't say for sure :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 05, 2008, 07:15:52 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]Hi Mikey,

no problem with the paralleled resistors.
but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't necessary.
but since I haven't tested this I can't say for sure :green:


Thanks Volker - will try out today :thumb:

MUSIKDING transformer voltages:

Transformer ratings as follows:
9V at 2.5A = 22.5VA
24V at 0.5A = 12VA
250V at 100mA = 25VA
primaries 2x115V for 230V use in series

Total = 59.5VA

Toroidals will measure higher voltage than their ratings when off load
Data sheet for typical 60VA says regulation (off load) is 11% (ie 11% higher output voltage off load). Smaller toroids have higher regulation - bigger toroids have lower regulation.

My mains measures 239V - nearly 4% higher - compounded with regulation - about 15%

250V winding - 289V - 15.6% higher
24V winding - 27.5V - 14.6% higher
9V winding - 10.1V - 12.2% higher

Am I right assuming lower current secondaries will have higher regulation value (because of higher resistance of wire)?

Anyhow - all look about right to me.

AND YES - make sure you connect primaries as Marty stated! - for 230V operation that is.

ok - enough typing - NEED SOLDER :razz:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 05, 2008, 07:38:32 AM
Bernd, Volker, mikeyB
I owe you a couple of pints for your help...
The heater:
I stuffed a 12k instead of a 220R in the heater PSU...no comment.
The hint regarding the low R test resistor test encouraged me to look for a fundamental error. This was one of my first "wrong component" problems, I'm usually quite thoroughly regarding component stuffing.
The high voltage PSU had two leaking diodes, I replaced them, everything works as expected.

Whenever you guys are in Hamburg, ping me for the beer...

Thanks
Holger
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 05, 2008, 04:55:52 PM
great you sorted this out :thumb:
now, give us the photos :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 07, 2008, 09:10:55 AM
Quick question .... I'm still waiting on those bloody Edcors !!

The Musikding transformer has a "shield" connection, with "earth" colours,
does this need to be earthed at the case where "Mains" earth strap is ?
Is it just a "noise" reducing screen earth ?

( sorry that's 2 questions )

Thanks,

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 07, 2008, 09:13:52 AM
The strap goes to where your starground is, which probably is the same place you put the mains earth connection. Close to the IEC connector prefferably for safetys sake.

The answer for the second question is yes.

/J
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 07, 2008, 09:54:55 AM
Thanks J

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 07, 2008, 11:54:00 AM
Finished mine last night :grin:
But it not working good :sad:
HT heatsink way hot so I guess it's back to the drilling board :mad:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 07, 2008, 01:39:12 PM
A Bit Better :!:
Had an awful buzz - which I thought would be some earth loop sh*t going on - shorted out the relay psu3 ground to the rest of the board ground - buzz gone :thumb: Can someone explain why this would be the case - I cant see how having the relay pcbs floating supply cause such a problem with the ground - I thought the idea of seperate ground was to keep switching noise out of the audio ground.
Now working but sounding a bit light on bass - I'm going from a hifi amp tape out - is the input tranny loading this too much :?: Will hook-up with something with more drive.
Also got the blue LED with a switch in parallel with the opto LED. Should it light with gain reduction - seems to have no effect on compression :?:

Volker - enough adjust in 2 Meg trimmer to align the meter to 0dB.

I had similar voltages to Volker - EXCEPT - neon voltage only 52 volts - any ideas/ should I change something :?:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 07, 2008, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: "Benny"
After putting my D-AOC stuff in the new case and testing it I've got a problem with the right channel.
Both channels input and output pots work, both channels are compressing
but the second channel has no bass. Just high frequencies and it sounds like it is distorting when it's compressing heavily. I just checked if I've got some wrong parts in channel 2. But compared to channel 1 everything seems to be the same. I'm using Edcor WSM on input and XSM on output.
I'm gonna look over it again tomorrow morning. Any ideas?


Benny - Did you sort the 2nd channel :?: - this could be my problem as well
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 07, 2008, 02:30:07 PM
Volker said "I put in a (red) LED, paralleled to the Vactrol LED (to watch if it will light - since I was able to measure Audio at that point). There was no light, but - compression."

Lookiing at the picture with the blue led in antiparallel - is the LED lit or does it just look like it from the picture :?:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 07, 2008, 02:35:46 PM
blue LEDs antiparallel will lit.
all others won't.
don't ask me why :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on July 07, 2008, 02:36:25 PM
I also installed blue LEDs in parallel and anti parallel attached to a switch with no change in compression. I suspected the problem was that the LEDs I purchased were water clear. I have ordered some blue diffused to replace them with. The red LED works fine. Silent Arts picture showed using a blue diffused LED.
My red LED which (I think) I put in parallel does light with compression

I used the on board jumper for the PSU3 ground/ floating ground. Should I have left that out since I'm using relays?

Got my D-AOC fired up last week. I had only one problem (mistakenly put in 470K resistors in place of 470R) which threw all the voltages off a whole lot. Glad I spotted the wrong resistor values because this is my first tube project and I was a little lost.
Sounded great but now I'm waiting for a replacement tube that seems to have been defective and my front panel to arrive.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 07, 2008, 02:41:35 PM
Quote from: "jrfred453"
I used the on board jumper for the PSU3 ground/ floating ground. Should I have left that out since I'm using relays?

no. this is just an option if you actually have clicks.
don't know why I always doing this ground jumper thing, have been unsure with the relays in my first PCB :grin:
have always jumpered the grounds together with no problem since ...
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 09, 2008, 10:27:47 PM
i have no molex crimping tool for the  molex connectors used in this project. if i read correctly the crimping tool cost over $200. will any crimping tool do? ive seen these connectors assembled(crimped and in the sleeve? or base) it looks like the wire is crimped while in the sleeve. or is it done outside the sleeve and then pushed in(easier than im making it? i hope so) i was thinking of salvaging enough from discarded electronics (i have access to large amounts) i was able to find the exact heat sink for thispcb from salvage. the larger one. i was able to get the other two from mouser. but buying new connectors would save on time and labor. any ideas?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 10, 2008, 05:59:36 AM
I have only used the Molex stuff a few times, I took the wire - pre tinned and
poked it into the metal "sleeve" as far as the first open "crimp" section.
Squeeze that with needle nose pliers and apply solder - not too much or it
will run down and spoil the little "spring" part of the connection at the bottom.

Done !!

I prefer to use those "screw terminal" connections, more expensive but very
quick and solid too.

MM.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 10, 2008, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
Quote from: "Benny"
After putting my D-AOC stuff in the new case and testing it I've got a problem with the right channel.
Both channels input and output pots work, both channels are compressing
but the second channel has no bass. Just high frequencies and it sounds like it is distorting when it's compressing heavily. I just checked if I've got some wrong parts in channel 2. But compared to channel 1 everything seems to be the same. I'm using Edcor WSM on input and XSM on output.
I'm gonna look over it again tomorrow morning. Any ideas?


Benny - Did you sort the 2nd channel :?: - this could be my problem as well


BUMP :?  - scratching my head on this one - checked on the wiring, looks ok - tried other valves that are known working in other gear - not the valves. Bass starts to roll off below about 200hz - looks about 10db down at 40Hz
Any help much appreciated :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 10, 2008, 04:27:24 PM
I was starting to suspect the transformers and then just read this thread
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=9813
Analag - your original comp was transformerless? I'll try this  - do i need to pad the output any, or just use the output pot to control gain. I just go unbalanced from the output of the 10u solen and ground?
By the way - using Edcor XSM 10k/10k on input and XSM10k/600 on output

 :?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: electrochronic on July 11, 2008, 12:58:59 PM
Anyone kind enough to respond....


Input transformers

1:1(600:600)

UTC A20
Altec 15356A

will these work as inputs ? any circuit mods required ?
or does it have to be 10K:10K or 15K:15K to work properly ?
_______________________________________________________
Output Transformers
15K:600

Seems several Edcors are mentioned but which Model # yields best results for $$ ?


XSM10K/600
WSM600/10K backwards
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 11, 2008, 04:33:29 PM
ha! Kubi that is awesome....love em!

 :thumb:  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on July 11, 2008, 04:55:59 PM
(http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_guinness.gif)(http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_guinness.gif)(http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_guinness.gif)(http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_guinness.gif)
What can I say (http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)

analag
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 11, 2008, 05:33:38 PM
ah, there is your coming out :green:
please, give me an "infront" shot for my virtual rack :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 11, 2008, 05:47:19 PM
WOW - Darius that looks awesome !!
Blown away man !!

Marty.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: skipwave on July 11, 2008, 05:58:21 PM
Darius, that's insane! I'm actually a little scare looking at those.  :cool: :thumb:

What is meant by "Precision Edition" on the silverface one? The already discussed modifications, or something else?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: toffifee on July 11, 2008, 09:13:52 PM
Beeeeyouuutiful!!! :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: electrochronic on July 12, 2008, 03:21:41 PM
Anyone kind enough to respond....


Input transformers

1:1(600:600)

UTC A20
Altec 15356A

will these work as inputs ? any circuit mods required ?
or does it have to be 10K:10K or 15K:15K to work properly ?
_______________________________________________________
Output Transformers
15K:600

Seems several Edcors are mentioned but which Model # yields best results for $$ ?


XSM10K/600
WSM600/10K backwards
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 12, 2008, 03:34:14 PM
There is always one thing you can do in DIY: try it :grin:
I use 600:600 in my D-AOC, works great.
but your transformer models might have a different behavior, we can't say this in advance.

the ouput works fine with Edcor XSM10K/600.
most people used it ...

if you want to try another one feel free to do it.
but we can't test anything in advance, and even with PCBs it is still DIY :green:
(Klaus Wowereit would say: und das ist auch gut so)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: electrochronic on July 14, 2008, 01:43:56 PM
Volker,

thanks, I'll try some different transformers for sure, but understanding why one transformer works better than others is really my question. here's why .....

Example : take the different tx's below having qualifying specs for input usage.

A20 1:1 (500:500) max level +15dbm
A22 1:1 (500:500) max level +30dbm
Altec 15335A 1:1 (15K:15K)

based off specs above could you actually make a case that one is better than the other without a sound test.

Even if all these are 1:1, is the 500:500 loading compared to the 15k:15K going to make a difference. Based on what gets plugged into it in the signal chain such as a guitar or a mic for example,  will the two react
relatively the same , if so why ? if not why ?  It seems to me that there would be a difference due to impedance in the winding between the two. What effect would 600 have over a 15K or a 10K for that matter. What would I expect to hear or not hear if I were just basing my decision solely on transformer specs ?  ( complicated enough )

I'm trying to understand the specifics in aquiring a optimal transformer. In many cases ,  buying a transformer on specs does'nt allow for a sound test until later. So, knowing more about specs might decrease the uncertainties in getting the wrong iron and increase the success for getting a transformer that will be correct. I always feel transformer selection is like gambling, and I want to take the element of chance out of it as much as possible. I've always rely on proven results because who can afford to keep enough transformers around to ensure thru sound testing , you have the right one for the job.

In many instances, having the original iron for a project involves having the vintage iron. The cost of vintage iron has made it popular to go to alternatives due to cost. In this case I always ask the question - what alternative should I use. Well, I usually call the manufacturer and get the suggested alternative, but what if I find something unusual and I want to use it in a project, what then. Here is where knowing specs becomes important and here is where confusion begins.


Basically, When I look at transformer specs,  I want to be able to make a experienced decision without wasting to much time and money.

Am I making any sense ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChuckD on July 14, 2008, 02:44:06 PM
I have recently been tweaking/experimenting around on this unit and discovered that I now have caused a 120Hz hum... Any ideas to the root cause of a 120Hz hum? There is no 60Hz present. 120Hz measures approx -60db and does no appear to be linked to the output or input gain.

I am thinking it is either :
a) The Hot Hot Regulator  on the 6.3  VDC supply
b) The C102 & C104 caps I only used 250VDC rated ones and maybe I screwed them while experimenting
c) The tubes . Bad tube somewhere?


Anyone want to suggest something else or help me rule something out?

Thanks

-Chuck
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 14, 2008, 02:48:49 PM
maxwall ,
What I can tell you for sure is that I can't tell you the result just from the specs :shock:
you may have seen this:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=75
different Input Transformers, with different specs.
no, I haven't compared sound, this was measuring only.
I would have expected some other curves from a few transformers :wink:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 14, 2008, 02:55:24 PM
ChuckD,
haven't heard of any hum problems yet - what Power X former did you use ?
do you have a scope ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on July 15, 2008, 12:04:15 PM
Chuck D, Volker, and others...  I'm sorry to ask, but what is the "kubi advanced version" and mod that Darius refers to?  I've read the threads two times and can't find it.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 15, 2008, 02:18:19 PM
the Kubi advanced version are just a few changes he did.
haven't tried it myself, but seams to work fine.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on July 15, 2008, 06:14:50 PM
I noticed Chuck D has it written on his front panel.  And Darius said it was posted.  Which thread?  Can someone point me or send a PM please?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 16, 2008, 07:43:38 PM
DONE first "FIRE ENGINE" :grin:

BIG THANKS to analag, Volker, Purusha and all who contribute!

This baby runs nice and cool - regs should last a good while
Soft switch is for clear blue LED anti-parallel. Parallel had no effect!

Here's some pics - afraid I'm better with a soldering iron than with a camera :oops:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/blurryfront.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/chassisabove.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/front-1.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/heatsinks.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/ironshot.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/mikerbaker/pcbabove.jpg

NEXT :razz:


 :sam:  :sam: first though

ps sorry about pic quality Volker :oops:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: PimD on July 17, 2008, 03:49:31 AM
Quote from: "mikeyB"

I had similar voltages to Volker - EXCEPT - neon voltage only 52 volts - any ideas/ should I change something :?:


Mikey, is your neon still at 52 Volts? And had any problems with that?

Fired mine up last night, and it also gives 52V.
Without tubes (don't know if that matters :oops: )

Congrats on your build.
 :thumb:  :sam:  :sam:  :guinness:  :guinness:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on July 17, 2008, 06:23:49 AM
PimD - the neon is reference for meter side - will check calibration in studio. The unit seems to be doing the business as expected.
I'm building 2nd one soon - so I will try next with zener reference. Will have that done sometime next weekend :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 17, 2008, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
This baby runs nice and cool - regs should last a good while

looking at your heatsinks I'm sure it runs cool :grin:
Mikey, nice build - and thanks for the pictures.
I just screwed it in the growing rack :thumb:  :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Purusha on July 18, 2008, 03:18:59 PM
I am trying to find the recommended values for D-AOC power transformer (toroid). Anyone has it saved near by?  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jrfred453 on July 23, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
Finally got my D-AOC in a presentable state.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2695693867_dcf46c8ae6_b.jpg)
Thanks Volker, Analog, and Chae!

If anyone has one of those Sifam meters that works, please let me know.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 23, 2008, 10:59:10 PM
only my 3rd DIY so please bear with me.
! i noticed more than  a few builders have mounted their psu heatsinks off the pcb to larger heatsinks. i was wondering if the prototypes were built with the suggested on board heatsinks and if any problems have occurred from overheating?
i salvaged the larger sized hearsink from a switching power supply i pulled from some medical equiptment.

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/seavote/heatsink.jpg)

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/seavote/heatsink2.jpg)

the heatsink came with the "clamp piece you see in the photo and the "sleeve"(in my hand in one photo) that covers the regulator.
What does this "sleeve" do. do i use heatsink paste with the sleeve, toss the sleeve and use paste or use the sleeve and forget the paste?

thanks
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 24, 2008, 04:49:23 AM
Quote from: jrfred453
Finally got my D-AOC in a presentable state/quote]
nice one - I first thought it is just another purusha case, but while adding it to the D-AOC rack I realized it is your own :thumb:

Quote from: "seavote"
i was wondering if the prototypes were built with the suggested on board heatsinks and if any problems have occurred from overheating?

mine was build with the suggested heatsinks, but the heater regulator went too hot in my opinion, thus I mounted that one to a larger heatsink to the case. the two other heatsinks are fine in my unit.

Quote from: "seavote"
the heatsink came with the "clamp piece you see in the photo and the "sleeve"(in my hand in one photo) that covers the regulator.
What does this "sleeve" do. do i use heatsink paste with the sleeve, toss the sleeve and use paste or use the sleeve and forget the paste?

the "sleeve" isolates your regulator from the heatsink. it may be from a material where no paste is needed.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 24, 2008, 05:14:23 PM
OK   off board for the one regulator. thanks for the repy.
i'll be building a Doac with no bypass switch. the third or PSU3  voltage will only be needed for lighting the meters. what is a good voltage for this? it there a standard voltage? also i used the C12 and C13 values listed in the BOM. they should be fine yes?thanks
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Sredna on July 24, 2008, 05:43:12 PM
My B+ regulator actually got wery hot so I used a larger heatsink mounted on the chassis. Safe is better.

Regards,

Anders
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 24, 2008, 06:12:55 PM
Quote from: "seavote"
i'll be building a Doac with no bypass switch. the third or PSU3  voltage will only be needed for lighting the meters. what is a good voltage for this? it there a standard voltage? also i used the C12 and C13 values listed in the BOM. they should be fine yes?thanks

this just depends on the secondary AC you have on your transformer
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 24, 2008, 06:20:52 PM
Hey Anders,
sounds like you have a finished build ???
show us some pics :green:

see you soon
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Sredna on July 24, 2008, 07:04:08 PM
Hey Volker!

Almost finished, just some wireing/tidying up to do. I'm on vacation from next week til end of August so it´ll have to wait... Have to see the sun sometimes  :wink:

It passes sound and compresses well after I found and removed a solder bridge at the stereo link connector  :oops:

Dont worry about your rack, you already got a Purusha case there. Mine just got different knobs and lamp. But hey, it´s my first tube build so I wanted to concentrate on the electronics...

Thanks again for a beautiful design and almost foolproof even for a noob like me!

See you after the summer,

Anders
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on July 27, 2008, 07:27:41 AM
today i fired my unit up. all supply voltages are ok.
i checked the voltages on the tubes like this: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585&start=290

all voltages are fine, except the PIN1 voltage on tube Vx01.
volker measured 109V and i measured 244V.

measured with tube inside. pots and transformer not connected.
both channel the same.

anybody an idea?

EDIT

i connected the input to ground (Rx03), after this i get the right value!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 05, 2008, 03:34:57 AM
My D-AOC is working now. Second channel had no bass etc. After a long time searching for wrong parts etc I found out that the wire between + and CT on the output edcor got torn off the solder lug. Just soldered it in place and ...tada... we've got sound on both channels.  :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on August 05, 2008, 08:39:48 AM
Quote from: "Benny"
My D-AOC is working now. Second channel had no bass etc. After a long time searching for wrong parts etc I found out that the wire between + and CT on the output edcor got torn off the solder lug. Just soldered it in place and ...tada... we've got sound on both channels.  :grin:


I bet it was pin 8?

Please let Edcor know about this - the quality control seems a little lapse!
I bought 10 Edcors from Edcor Europe. One XSM10k/600 - had no continuity between tags 6 & 8 (antiphase half of secondary). On inspection - the wire was soldered but not stripped of varnish - I carefully scraped the wire and resoldered - SORTED!
No so lucky with a WSM 10k/10k - exact same problem - nothing on pin 8 - tried the same method as above - but no continuity - wire must be broke in winding :mad:
I've informed tonydB about this - through Edcor europe and am currently waiting a replacement.
Benny - please let tony know about your problem - he'll hopefully report back to Edcor USA and in turn they'll sort their quality control out.

Moderators :idea: - is it worth starting a thread - "Dodgy Edcors" or something like to make everyone aware of these problems - I'm just thinking of the amount of Edcor iron thats going around the world for the Poorman project  :!:

Edit - just noticed you said between + and CT - so thats different to my 2 - pin 8 problems :?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 06, 2008, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
Edit - just noticed you said between + and CT - so thats different to my 2 - pin 8 problems :?


Could have been between pin 8 and CT. I did not look inside the D-AOC since I got it working.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on August 21, 2008, 05:21:38 AM
A quick question on transformer hookup, since this is my first project with offboard trafos: The Edcors have plus - centertap - negative connectors on both in- and output. Let's say I'm hooking up the input trafo, I connect signal-hot to trafo-plus, cold to negative and ground to centertap? And the unbalanced output is between plus and negative, leaving centertap unconnected?

Thanks in advance,
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 21, 2008, 08:01:59 AM
You don't need the CT at all. Just leave it and connect pos to pos and neg to neg. That's the fine thing with having transformers on the in/out, you can make a completely isolated floating connection.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on August 21, 2008, 09:41:09 AM
I see, I thought the CT might need the reference for the inverted/cold signal connection...

thanks!
Christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 22, 2008, 11:12:53 AM
The unit worked perfectly for about two weeks but now I see that after power-up the NE2 neon lamp in Ch 1 lights up but then after a few second stops shining. It also seems to shine darker than the NE2 in Ch 2.
I put in another NE2 but the new one behaves the same.

Any ideas?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on August 22, 2008, 11:27:27 AM
do you checked the supply voltages?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on August 22, 2008, 11:37:14 AM
Benny,
check R124 and R126 for correct values. What kind of meteres do you use?
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 22, 2008, 12:15:21 PM
Bernd,
I'm using Sifam Al29 VUs.

R124 and R126 seem to be right.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on August 22, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
Hi Benny,
could it be, that you missed the 3K6 resistor in series with the VU meter on one side? Check please!
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 22, 2008, 12:23:33 PM
3,6k resistor is there. But i didn't already connect the VU of the other channel. Do these interact somehow???
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on August 22, 2008, 01:20:41 PM
Connect the second meter as well and see what happens. Normally everything should be fine.
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on August 22, 2008, 02:01:26 PM
Thanks. I'll check that tomorrow.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: EmRR on August 22, 2008, 03:29:42 PM
Quote from: "mikeyB"
Quote from: "Benny"
My D-AOC is working now. Second channel had no bass etc. After a long time searching for wrong parts etc I found out that the wire between + and CT on the output edcor got torn off the solder lug. Just soldered it in place and ...tada... we've got sound on both channels.  :grin:


I bet it was pin 8?

Please let Edcor know about this - the quality control seems a little lapse!
I bought 10 Edcors from Edcor Europe. One XSM10k/600 - had no continuity between tags 6 & 8 (antiphase half of secondary). On inspection - the wire was soldered but not stripped of varnish - I carefully scraped the wire and resoldered - SORTED!
No so lucky with a WSM 10k/10k - exact same problem - nothing on pin 8 - tried the same method as above - but no continuity - wire must be broke in winding :mad:
I've informed tonydB about this - through Edcor europe and am currently waiting a replacement.
Benny - please let tony know about your problem - he'll hopefully report back to Edcor USA and in turn they'll sort their quality control out.

Moderators :idea: - is it worth starting a thread - "Dodgy Edcors" or something like to make everyone aware of these problems - I'm just thinking of the amount of Edcor iron thats going around the world for the Poorman project  :!:

Edit - just noticed you said between + and CT - so thats different to my 2 - pin 8 problems :?



yes, 2 of about 20 edcors I've purchased have either had dead windings or incorrectly connected windings.  Always check upon receipt!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on August 23, 2008, 06:06:18 AM
I thought I share my happiness - just (nearly) finished my D-AOC, I'm just missing the VUs which shoud arrive in the next week...

Was a fairly easy and flawless build (purusha case), just had troubles wiht the edcor XSM as ohter users. Two out of four trafos had bad solder points, one even had the islotation on the windings and no contact at all..

whatever, the comp has a very unique sound, at least with the dark edcor 10k/10k on the input, and I love the fact you have to set the dials like on a nice marshall plexi, all controls to 11!

Will post pictures once the VUs are in there.

One last question, I also connected a Fender Jewel light to the 6.3V heater supply, would it be too much to also connect 2 VU lamps on it, since the regulator is getting farily hot already?

Thanks!
Christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on August 23, 2008, 02:06:52 PM
what voltages have the two vu lamps?
you can connect it seriel to the 24V supply
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on August 23, 2008, 05:47:58 PM
I ordered the light kit with 12 Volt lamps, but could easily change them for 6V types. But it would make sense to use both 12V lamps in series on the 24V supply, haven't thought of that  :oops:

thanks max!
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on September 30, 2008, 03:59:49 PM
this week i finished my DAOC.

(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOCfront01%20(Large).jpg)
(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOC00%20(Large).jpg)
(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOC01%20(Large).jpg)
(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOC02%20(Large).jpg)
(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOC05%20(Large).jpg)
(http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOCfront02%20(Large).jpg)

also a RMAA measurement:
http://gasman.lima-city.de/diy/DAOC/DAOC.htm

a big thanks to analag and volker for this great projekt !!!

btw a question to other DAOC builders und users, how many gain have yours? is ~10dB in the range?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on September 30, 2008, 04:14:14 PM
awesome and congrats - very nice case! I've mine finished too - the only thing that bothers me is that gain reduction metering is way off. I still can't figure out when and when not to use the 3k6 terminating resistor on the sifam al series vu's. how are they behaving in your unit?

cheers
christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on September 30, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
i have the 3k6 always in series on the VU meters.
after the 3k6 i switch to the output and to the GR-Meter.
with the 3k6 i have exactly +4dbu @ 0dB
for calibrating the GR meter, just replace the R126 (R226) with a 50k trim (start with 50k default value on the trim).
then calibrate it with RV104 (RV204) and with the 50k Trims.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on September 30, 2008, 04:24:04 PM
Maxheadroom, wonderful design, cool device  :thumb:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Greg on September 30, 2008, 04:38:59 PM
max:

Definitely a nice build !!!

Did you notice the slight high frequency roll off in the right channel. Probably not ideal for stereo use.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on September 30, 2008, 09:15:52 PM
Yet another one for me to appreciate (http://www.groupdiy.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) Some use a 600:10K which is a 1:4 step up for more gain.

analag
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 01, 2008, 05:43:53 AM
wow, another beauty, nice work :thumb:
and yes, ca 10dB gain is correct in the standard configuration.
have to update the rack now ... :green:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on October 01, 2008, 06:36:29 AM
max, are these haufe rk255/1 ? if so, for what reason is the resistor besides the channel 1 trafo?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on October 01, 2008, 08:52:29 AM
Hi Max,
a really nice looking D-AOC you´ve got there, congrats!! I never thought that these creme chickenheads look so fine with black frontpanels. I always hesitated to use them, but your pictures motivate me to try them for my next project. (your G9 is great, too !)
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on October 01, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: "Brizco"
max, are these haufe rk255/1 ? if so, for what reason is the resistor besides the channel 1 trafo?


yes, these are haufe rk255/1 on inputs. the resistor is not connected to any wire. i used an old board to fix the transformer. i forgot the desolder the resistor.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on October 01, 2008, 05:07:54 PM
Has anyone figured out  yet how to lower the threshold while retaining the original compression curve? The compression curves with the LEDs in parallel look different. I'm planning to finish my unit and I'm interfacing my outboard to digital converters with a maximum of +4db.


Thanks!
Gregor


BTW, is there a software (PC) to measure compression characteristics with a sound card and get printouts?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on October 02, 2008, 03:21:39 AM
Quote
i forgot the desolder the resistor.


I'm sure you ment the resistor is connected in a secret, very special way and improves the sound of one input channel to the single most awesomest compressor ever built! (never admit in a public forum that you just forgot something :D)

christoph
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on October 02, 2008, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: "living sounds"
Has anyone figured out  yet how to lower the threshold while retaining the original compression curve? The compression curves with the LEDs in parallel look different. I'm planning to finish my unit and I'm interfacing my outboard to digital converters with a maximum of +4db.


Thanks!
Gregor


BTW, is there a software (PC) to measure compression characteristics with a sound card and get printouts?


visit ARTA STEPS  http://www.fesb.hr/~mateljan/arta/
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on October 02, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
I dont know if i missed it but, What is the power rating of the ZD39V ?

1.3W or 5W?

Thanks!
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on October 02, 2008, 06:06:13 PM
i used 1.3W
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 03, 2008, 09:54:39 AM
Here is my version. I will replace this amateur photos with glamour shots later.
(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/daoc%20fotos/daoc%20front%203.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/DIY%20November/daoc-front-closed.jpg)

Panels are painted at local paint shop, they have a very cool britsh racing green color.
I used Altec trannies to match the sound with the look  :wink:

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/DIY%20November/daoc-tranny-details.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/daoc%20fotos/daoc%20meter%20blitz.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/DIY%20November/daoc-open-3.jpg)
(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/DIY%20November/daoc%20open%202.jpg)
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 03, 2008, 10:01:51 AM
WOW - an ALtec D-AOC :cool:  incl. the transformers.
congratulations, very nice and singular design :thumb:
oh, and for sure a nice and clean build inside :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
how do you like the sound ?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 03, 2008, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: "[silent:arts
"]
how do you like the sound ?


I have to take it to my studio and do some listening tests, as far as I can tell from my headphones it sounds wonderful. Updates later.
Thanks for liking BTW... :grin:
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on October 03, 2008, 10:22:46 AM
Hi Holger,
that´s indeed a very interesting approach to the D-AOC. I love it! Haven´t I seen another Altec like build from you?  Do you stock them?  :grin:
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 03, 2008, 10:31:15 AM
Bernd, I 've collected Altec stuff over the years, now it's time to use the stuff  for green DIY audio devices :grin:
The "other" build is the API 312 in Altec clothes:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22584
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on October 03, 2008, 10:44:12 AM
Haaaa, so I was right. Have you ever thought of doing a DIY Altec in original Altec cases? There was a member here, who designed Altec 436 pcbs, as far as I can remember. Anyway, very nice built!!
regards
Bernd
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 03, 2008, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: "bernbrue"
...Have you ever thought of doing a DIY Altec in original Altec cases? ...


Often, Bernd, often...
Currently I have 6 unfinished projects hanging around (counting 8 channels of S800 EQs a one)... :sad:

Maybe next year I'm starting with a 43x clone
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on October 04, 2008, 10:01:31 AM
wondeful !!!

from where did you get the case and how did you made the frontpanel?
looks very impressive!

btw. i tested my DAOC yesterday on bass. found out that on hard compression like ~5-10 dB GR the bass sounds like crackling. someone else this behavior?
maybe caused by a fixed attack time?
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 04, 2008, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: "maxheadroom"

from where did you get the case and how did you made the frontpanel?

Case is from Modushop.biz, frontpanel is done by Schäffer/FrontPanelExpress.
Title: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on October 17, 2008, 09:40:15 AM
Possible WARNING

Can any of the gurus validate (and hopefully resolve) my concerns?

Built 2 DOAC - 1st one I can't get my hands on it as me mate is constantly using it for mastering! Now I've finished the 2nd (Kubi advanced version), I've started to confirm my niggling suspicions re. the power supply caps.
PCB ident is for 400V rating - BOM is for 350V and if like me, any UK builds using 350V may have a problem.
Musikding power transformer has 250V HT secondary. Doing the basic math 250 x 1.414 = 353Volts  :sad: This is before taking into account UK mains  - mine measures a rock steady 240V  :!: Accounting for this increase, DC after rectifier is calculated at 369V :shock:
While valves are warming up - no current is drawn, and I measured 370V after the rectifier. This stayed this high for 15 - 20 seconds until the valves conduct :!:
Is there an easy fix for this (inclusion of a power resistor somewhere) or do I need to take out the PCB and upgrade the caps to 400/450V rating
 :roll: Will this be the case for all 12 HT caps or just the 3 pre-regulator?
Will do a bit more measuring and observation before reporting back :shock:
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on November 19, 2008, 11:39:06 AM
Got some questions on the d-oac (mine is labeled wrong on the frontpanel d-aoc btw..)
I use it for mastering and love it for that, it's clean and glue's things together in a nice way (edcor trafo's) but there are some practical things that i'd like to change, i allready did the cap mod which makes it more useable and sounds even a bit better now the original design.

First of all, the meters are drifting away from 0 after some time (an hour or so) because the unit gets warm (ofcourse) and so it needs adjustments on the metertrim so i want to take that to the frontpanel with a potmeter (it's racked up ofcourse).
The thing is, the multiturn trimmer is 1m and i don't think a regular potmeter will be precise enough so i was thinking of paralleling/serial it with the 1m trimmer on board to get a small range for zero adjust.
Has anybody done that yet and how did you do it?

I'd also like to make the threshold pots into stepped switches (24 steps elma) so that it's easier to set L/R at the same value, in and outputs are allready stepped (12 steps) and this works great.
What value's would you choose to make the range decently working, i don't need a really wide range, just a couple of DB will do the job for me.
Has anybody done that yet?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 19, 2008, 12:58:35 PM
Meter drift:
since it is the same circuit as in the LA2A - this is normal.
as far as I remember the LA2A has a normal pot at the front for adjustment, will work here too.
if you use the neon it could help to use the zener diode instead, but I haven't tested this.

to change the pots to a stepped switch you can use the Log Pot To Switch Excell sheat I posted in the Poor Man thread.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on November 19, 2008, 05:38:29 PM
Edit:
Question answered in another thread ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on November 19, 2008, 08:49:59 PM
Very nice looking (http://www.groupdiy.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

analag
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Junction on December 14, 2008, 09:51:51 AM
Hey Volker,

it appears that your website http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/ is down. I have finally got around to start building the D-AOC's and was looking for the schematics and BOM as linked on page 1 of this thread, no luck though.

Cheers
Michael
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on December 14, 2008, 02:08:15 PM
Junction, I've sent you an EMail! ;D

Got some of the DAOC info stored on PC including pdf schematics & layouts if anyone needs it until the Silent Arts site comes back, just PM me & I'll EMail it out.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 14, 2008, 06:41:10 PM
yes, http://groupdiy.silentarts.net/ is gone.
it is a pain in the ass to edit all this links, but Im working on it.
they are not gone, just "temporally unavailable"
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on December 25, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Hello

I´m having trouble trying to find a BOM for the D-AOC

Can someone help me?

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on February 08, 2009, 05:19:12 AM
Yes same thing here
Can someone send us the volker BOM please , the link to the german bom on first post didnt work anymore .

TY -

Volker and Team : Really a nice design and nice projet for Diy !!!
Congrats for your work


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 08, 2009, 09:16:34 AM
Yes same thing here
Can someone send us the volker BOM please , the link to the german bom on first post didnt work anymore .

TY -

Volker and Team : Really a nice design and nice projet for Diy !!!
Congrats for your work
Bonjour !!!
If you need farnell france codes, I can send you this...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on February 08, 2009, 12:17:19 PM

If you need farnell france codes, I can send you this...

Would like the Farnell codes as well Lolo? Cheers ;D

BTW Ive got some of the DAOC info stored on PC including pdf schematics & layouts if anyone needs it until the Silent Arts site comes back, just PM me & I'll EMail it out to anyone who needs it
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 08, 2009, 12:37:57 PM
DAOC info, pdf schematics & layouts
Most of them are still available on the first page of this thread...
I will post farnell codes as soon as possible (it's a hard job)  ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on February 08, 2009, 06:47:23 PM
Hey Guys, I need some help with the relay boards..................

I've built mine with the 24v relays, and I'm pretty sure I've got all the correct parts in place, but for some reason I can't seem to get it out of bypass...............arrrgh!!!

Is there an overlay somewhere? I'm pretty sure everything is in the correct way round, I've been comparing to most of the build photos on this thread. There was something that Volker posted a while back, but the pic is gone.
I hope I've got my +volts around the right way.

It's my first time using relays, so I'm kinda back to dumbass stage............... A no bainer layout would be awesome... Do I need to cut any of the traces?????

BTW I had a bit of a play with the comp without the bypass boards.................Very Nice ;D ME like valves.............
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on February 08, 2009, 08:31:05 PM
Most of them are still available on the first page of this thread...

Silent Arts site links are working now for anyone who needs the DAOC info ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on February 08, 2009, 08:57:26 PM
lowfreq, the diagram is linked to in this thread but looks like its unavailable at the moment. i have a copy i saved and ive emailed  to you.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 09, 2009, 04:01:37 AM
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/HWBP36.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on February 09, 2009, 04:47:21 AM
Hi guys,

i'm interested in the BOM.
if someone can email me this...

Lolo, very interested in your farnell bom.
ça serait super sympa de ta part!

jreakee_at_hotmail.com

thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 10, 2009, 04:26:17 AM
Hi guys,

i'm interested in the BOM.
if someone can email me this...

Lolo, very interested in your farnell bom.
ça serait super sympa de ta part!

jreakee_at_hotmail.com

thanks!


e-mailed it to you... Anyway for the others (  :o please check any mistakes :o, I don't have a lot of time so ... HELP ME !!! I will update it if there's an error) :
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/NBNS-Studio/D-AOC/DAOCBOM+Farnellcodes.doc (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/NBNS-Studio/D-AOC/DAOCBOM+Farnellcodes.doc)
Note : - If you want to make the the kubi advanced version you'll have to take 4 VACTROL, if you want to make the stock version take only 2.
          -  :o :o :o The numbers of each value isn't the number of Farnell codes to order... Be carefull, some item are sold with a minimum quantity !!!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on February 10, 2009, 05:52:08 AM
thanks Lolo!
email received...

I need to understand better the Kubi mod...4 vactrol!!!   :o

I tought it was only 2.

1 on the upper side of the pcb and 1 under (in paralell), and then a switch with the differents leds.
like this:
(http://audio.kubarth.com/daoc/vactrol_switch.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 10, 2009, 08:32:36 AM
thanks Lolo!
email received...

I need to understand better the Kubi mod...4 vactrol!!!   :o

I tought it was only 2.

1 on the upper side of the pcb and 1 under (in paralell), and then a switch with the differents leds.
You can mount both on the top side of the board (wires are long enough). Just plug one with writing up and the other writing down.

But I still don't understand why the paralleled led (green,blue,red...) are not 2 leds plugged opposite way, like the double Vactrol's leds... Can someone explain me the role of those leds  ??? ??? ??? ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on February 10, 2009, 08:42:55 AM

Kubi says that with the second vactrol the comp is more sensitive but with 4?
but what will be the behavior now?
is it worth it and if it's so good why analag and [silent:arts] didn't do that on the stock version???

I'm afraid I don't understand either the role of the led...excuse me I'm so french... ::)
I thought you guys want you comp look like christmas tree... 8)
from my understanding, you can choose between soft and hard knee with these, is that right?



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 10, 2009, 08:51:28 AM
Kubi says that with the second vactrol the comp is more sensitive but with 4?
but what will be the behavior now?
is it worth it and if it's so good why analag and [silent:arts] didn't do that on the stock version???
I think there is some missunderstanding: the kubi version needs 4 vactrols, which is two each side, while the original version needs 2 vactrols which is one each side.

the D-AOC PCBs are designed for analags original schematic.
kubi was part of the beta testers, and I tried to implement his suggestions.
nobody can tell you which version fits your taste best.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 10, 2009, 08:53:01 AM
You answered while I was...
Can you tell me more about the paralleled leds (green, blue... ) ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 10, 2009, 08:56:53 AM
fixed some dead links ...

 MODDING THE SLOPES (& THRESHOLD) (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg318801#msg318801)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on February 10, 2009, 09:25:04 AM
ok....misunderstanding!!!

I thought, WTF 8 vactrols!!!!  :o

BTW I'm not a real engineer, just workin in my home studio.
my primary thought for this comp was, "mastering" but more in the "glue" way...master not my job.
I'm making Hip Hop beats and my style is more "beat and bass in front"...so I thought to use it as a bus comp.

maybe the good thing for me is, a switch to select 1 or 2 vactrol...

but I'm interested by the leds too...will read the thread about!

thanks guyz!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 11, 2009, 07:23:16 PM
Before I power up tomorrow can someone confirm that I have the "colour codes"
right for the musikding power transformer  >>>???

I have :

Primary : Yellow and Purple to pwr switch and AC Live and Neutral
yellow/green as ground

White and Orange are soldered together and insulated.

Secondaries :

Brown is 250v 0.1 amp
Red is 9v
Green is 24v

Many thanks,
Marty.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on February 13, 2009, 06:26:51 AM
hi there ,

-The TL783 seems to be out of stock everywhere , what can be a good substitute ?? ( farnell is searching for me because the only TL783 is stock in Usa ! )

-Every Bom there Left D14 and D5  which are 1N4004 on schematic   ,  what should i do there ?

Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Kingston on February 13, 2009, 06:35:17 AM
-The TL783 seems to be out of stock everywhere , what can be a good substitute ?? ( farnell is searching for me because the only TL783 is stock in Usa ! )

It's not out of stock. This is a very standard part and it would be a serious screw up for any electronics supplier not to have it on stock.

http://fi.farnell.com/texas-instruments/tl783ckcse3/linear-regulators/dp/1666099

or

http://www.banzaieffects.com/TL783CKC-pr-16099.html

I have no clue what the KC means, but it really doesn't matter either, it's the same part. As long as the package is TO-220 (easy to mount on a heatsink), you're fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on February 16, 2009, 06:51:06 AM
quick question: Looking at the pcb at psu3 area. Am i supposed to link the pads that say GND and PSU3 NEG?

My pcbs has been lying on my shelf for too long, its time i got back into the diy game!

I have too many projects at once going, so it seems that nothing at all is being done (4xMK7 mics, 2xpm660, 1xD-AOC, and 6xBaby Animal at this moment, all of them half finished basically)

Seems I cant stop starting on new projects and never finishing the old ones. Anyone else that has the same problem here?

/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on February 16, 2009, 09:12:52 AM
quick question: Looking at the pcb at psu3 area. Am i supposed to link the pads that say GND and PSU3 NEG?

Yes
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 18, 2009, 08:54:52 AM
In my D-AOC R1 seems a little "stressed" and is starting to show a bit of "browning" on the
outside  !!
It's a 2W and quite large ( stands off the PCB at an angle due to it's size )

Any tips on this, do I need to lower the Voltage from the 250AC secondaries before it hits the board ?

I think I have a couple of large metal 25W 22 ohms or similar somewhere ....

Thanks a Million,

Marty.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 18, 2009, 05:16:32 PM
little "bump" on this one :-)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 18, 2009, 05:32:07 PM
...I think I have a couple of large metal 25W 22 ohms or similar somewhere ...
Marty,
R1 is 470R.
what are your voltages before and after IC1 ?
(and before R1 ?)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 18, 2009, 07:32:46 PM
Yes of course, R1 is a 2W 470R and before ( outer edge of ) R1 is @ 333v DC inner side of R1 is 313v
It's real hard to get to the pins on the 783 and I DON'T want to short anything out.

If the "casing" of the 783 is the "out" voltage, then that is 250v DC

Where the AC from the 250v windings enters the board it's 300v AC  !!

I was just worried that R1 is "browning" a little and may be getting "cooked" !

The 25W 22 ohm comment is just a question, if I need to get the B+ down a little before R1.

At the moment I have added nothing to the circuit other that 2 x cap changes suggested by Kubi
It operates fine and is all working other than this.

Thanks,

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 19, 2009, 06:30:48 AM
I can't find your voltage readings in the thread Volker, I think your page is still down ?

I'm guessing that this is all a little high and the 783& heat sink is getting VERY hot, too
hot to touch just about.

The 2W 10k's and 2k2's are showing around 230v and 213v to the tubes, do IRC that this
should be more in the 145v region ?

Pin 1 VX01's = 108v ( V201 is closer to 101v )
Pin 1 VX02's = 213v
Pin 1 VX03's = 239v

Thanks a bunch,

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 19, 2009, 08:18:28 AM
I can't find your voltage readings in the thread Volker, I think your page is still down ?
fixed the link:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg330048#msg330048
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 19, 2009, 08:52:15 AM
Thanks Volker, so my "0" is good and all the rest I have about 3 to 4 volts below
your readings, so that all looks fine.

Perhaps R1 just needs to be bigger in my case ... 5W !
And probably need to move the 783 to the case bottom or side to cool it a bit !!

What do you think ? ....  is 300v AC from the pwr traffo a bit much ?

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 19, 2009, 09:01:48 AM
Thanks Volker, so my "0" is good and all the rest I have about 3 to 4 volts below
your readings, so that all looks fine.

Perhaps R1 just needs to be bigger in my case ... 5W !
And probably need to move the 783 to the case bottom or side to cool it a bit !!

What do you think ? ....  is 300v AC from the pwr traffo a bit much ?

MM.
250V AC means approx 353V DC... 300VAC means approx 424V DC... This is a lot of lowering voltage for the 783... Maybe you'd better put a serial resistor to lower the AC... I'm sure your 783 will feel better with less voltage than with a bigger heater...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 19, 2009, 09:30:21 AM
Do I just need one on one of the AC lines just before entering the board, if so what
would you suggest ?
I have a few 25W rated @ 22 ohms and some 10W @ 10 ohms
The 25W is metal cased with bolt holes and about 5 cm long

MM
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 19, 2009, 11:39:08 AM
Do I just need one on one of the AC lines just before entering the board, if so what
would you suggest ?
I have a few 25W rated @ 22 ohms and some 10W @ 10 ohms
The 25W is metal cased with bolt holes and about 5 cm long

MM
Yes... on the HT AC line. I don't know the consumption of the DAOC tubes, so I can't tell you the value... I bet it will be more than 22 ohms to notice a real change in the HT voltage...
Test it with one 22 ohm, measure the voltage, calculate I = U/R and you'll know the consumption in static mode... Leave a margin for compression and you'll know the resistor you need.  :D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 19, 2009, 12:51:03 PM
Thanks , After some thought I calculate a 1k1 resister needed.
Tried a parallel pair of 2W 2k2's and the voltage at the board comes to a nice 249v before
the rectification .... more like it :-)

They are cooking a bit so my calculation using 0.1 A was off, I thought that 1W resistors
would work, anyhow dropping 50v is a strain, so I'll order a much bigger wattage 1k for the job.

This resulted in the 783 running quite cool .... the new resistor was creating all the heat !

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 22, 2009, 12:41:04 AM
After playing around with the DAOC today I noticed a high frequency roll off. According to Volker's graphs the frequency response should be pretty flat. I'm not sure my testing methods are correct, but I do hear it.

When I have it in the studio and I feed tones from the DAW through the DAOC with its output feeding an electronically balanced input. The DAOC is down .5dB at 10K and down 1dB at 15k. This agrees with what I am hearing. I'm using Jensen JT-11P-1 input transformers and  Jensen JT-10k61-1M output transformers.

When I test in on the bench the frequency response tests way worse. I feed the input transformer from an oscillator and have measured the output after the transformer with both  a battery powered Fluke 8060A and an HP400EL. When I do it this way it measures almost 6dB down at 15k. Something doesn't seem right.

I measured on the secondary of the input transformer with the secondary attached to the PCB. It measured flat. I also measured at the output before the transformer primary with the transformer attached to the PCB. I saw the high frequency roll off. This leads me to believe it's something in the circuit but I'm not sure.

Are there any tests I should do or things I should look for?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 22, 2009, 06:27:21 PM
I did some more tests today. I made some stupid mistakes in testing on the bench but I figured those out. Unfortunately the problem still exists. I have eliminated the transformers from the equation. It tests the same both with and without them.

The circuit is -.5db @10k, [email protected] and [email protected] Is there a pole at 32k anywhere in the circuit? Am I the only one who is seeing this? On Volker's graph it looks like it is down [email protected] 20k. I'd be happy with that. I sure hope I can get it flat at least to 15k. Yikes!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on February 22, 2009, 06:55:54 PM
Quote
Am I the only one who is seeing this?
Nope my DOAC is also a little dark sounding. I haven't had time to really investigate tho.

I've used the same Jensen on the input as you, but with edcor out.

When I did some RMAA tests it seemed that it was the edcor that was  dullin things for me as when tested unblalnced out it had a high freq rise. Yet when I listened to some audio files run through the comp. the unbalanced out also sounded dark.

I'm mainly using mine for vocal tracks at the moment, and a little eq up top seems to fix everything, so I haven't worried too much.

I have most of the Kubi mods on mine, except the input transformer, and I've still got the solen 10uf on the output.
I tried adding resisitors to the primarys and secondarys of the output transformer, but still got better results with just the transformer itself.

So yeah, mine is kinda dark too, but still works well..................... however if you have any luck improving it, I'd be interested to know what worked for you.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 05:02:09 AM
Mine seems to be unchanged in / out but I'm not measuring, just checking some bright
vocal takes - I have the ears of a "Bat" though :-)

I've used Lundahls in and out, inputs are a 1:5 LL3815's and outputs are 3:2 LL3814's

It sounds absolutely gorgeous, even NOT compressing, stuff just sounds better going through
this thing !!

My Sifams seems to be off though, display almost nothing and then peg left when I can just here
compression coming on .... too sensitive, but come on too late and too fast.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 23, 2009, 07:29:12 AM
Mine seems to be unchanged in / out but I'm not measuring, just checking some bright
vocal takes

It sounds absolutely gorgeous, even NOT compressing, stuff just sounds better going through
this thing !!

Maybe because the vocals are too bright :)

Quote
My Sifams seems to be off though, display almost nothing and then peg left when I can just here
compression coming on .... too sensitive, but come on too late and too fast.

I replaced R126 with a trimmer and followed the link for instructions on calibrating the LA2A meter. I was able to get the meter dead accurate with good looking ballistics from 1-3dB which is what I'm concerned about. After that it's not that accurate. You could spread out the error over a wider range if you want.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 08:32:38 AM


Maybe because the vocals are too bright :)


I replaced R126 with a trimmer and followed the link for instructions on calibrating the LA2A meter. I was able to get the meter dead accurate with good looking ballistics from 1-3dB which is what I'm concerned about. After that it's not that accurate. You could spread out the error over a wider range if you want.


Na - I just mean that they are as bright on the way out as on the way in ... not "uber bright"  ! 

Thanks, I have to read that link again as it didn't make sense that last time I looked ... or was broken link.

MM
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 23, 2009, 09:05:59 AM
Na - I just mean that they are as bright on the way out as on the way in ... not "uber bright"  ! 

If you get a chance to run some tones I would be interested in the results.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 09:44:46 AM
Sorry Paul, I know it's not "scientific" at all but I'm trying stuff that I know well through it and
it's coming up sounding very good, ... I'm more of a "listen to it" than a numbers guy  :o

MM
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on February 23, 2009, 09:59:35 AM
just a little question!

since I don't want to use a sifam meter and I've seen that a 250µa meter working nicely...

I found some really nice vintage meter for cheap that are 200µa, is these are too sensitive or like I saw the compression is subtile so it should work?

thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 23, 2009, 10:11:33 AM
No apologies necessary. Mine sounds good too. Just not entirely flat. It doesn't match the graph that Volker posted but it's not way off either. I'd just like to figure out whether this is typical.

If you could run a 1k, 10k and 15k tone though it with no compression and let me know what you get I would appreciate it. No need for disassembly or anything.

There are a distinct lack of capacitors in the circuit. I'm going to try to measure at different points in the circuit and see if I can figure out where it is happening. I not much of a schematic reader but C102 and C105 seem worthy of investigation.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mikeyB on February 23, 2009, 11:09:34 AM
Got the same response on 2 builds - they just don't seem happy with either the 10k/10k or the 600/10k Edcor input transformers! Not had time of late for any DIY (getting the sh-sh-shakes!!!) but i did briefly swap input's for sowter 10k/10k - still missing some top, some other sowter 1:3 step up and oep 1:1 600ohm and 1:2 600:2k4 - noticable top and bottom roll-off. The input circuit seems really picky as to what you put in it! In the end, omitted the input transformers and fed it unbalanced!!
The output is no trouble at all. Try it without in tranny - very open sound!!
Would eventually like input tranny, maybe option for both - any thoughts from the gurus?? - are we doing something wrong with the wiring etc, etc????
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 11:11:00 AM
My scope has died on me Paul !
I have no way to measure that stuff at the 'mo , nor software either :-(

GOOD NEWS THOUGH  ......

I installed the 1k 25W between secondary 250v rail and the board, it's a metal body wirewound
that bolts to the case.
My voltages all look "spot on" now and the heatsink runs totally cool, the 1k 25W gets about as warm as
a cup of coffee - so touchable, it's directly on the side of the case so has a HUGE heatsink.
I think this will all run cool and happy from now on.
I bought a few more as the Dual LA2a / PM670 have "european" traffo's expecting 220v an I'm at 249v here !!

Peace,
Marty.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 11:15:17 AM
Got the same response on 2 builds - they just don't seem happy with either the 10k/10k or the 600/10k Edcor input transformers! Not had time of late for any DIY (getting the sh-sh-shakes!!!) but i did briefly swap input's for sowter 10k/10k - still missing some top, some other sowter 1:3 step up and oep 1:1 600ohm and 1:2 600:2k4 - noticable top and bottom roll-off. The input circuit seems really picky as to what you put in it! In the end, omitted the input transformers and fed it unbalanced!!
The output is no trouble at all. Try it without in tranny - very open sound!!
Would eventually like input tranny, maybe option for both - any thoughts from the gurus?? - are we doing something wrong with the wiring etc, etc????

I have edcors for this but went with the Lundahl's, as I needed a "step up" at the front end. ( 1:5 at present )
Of course the Lundahl's cost about 4 x what the edcors did !!
No zobel nework, just direct in/out of the Lundahl's , I expect them to be almost flat, and I think there's a graf
showing some somewhere IIRC.


There are a distinct lack of capacitors in the circuit. I'm going to try to measure at different points in the circuit and see if I can figure out where it is happening. I not much of a schematic reader but C102 and C105 seem worthy of investigation.

In all those positions 102/202 105/205 I have MKT 1uf's if that's any help ?

MM
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 23, 2009, 11:35:51 AM
A more detailed description of meter adjustment:

1. Install a 100k trimmer as a variable resistor. Before putting it in adjust it to 33k which is the value of R126. The DAOC should behave as it did before you did this. The meter should be resting at 0 assuming you previously adjusted it.

2. Attach a level meter to the output of the DAOC.

3. Feed a tone to the input.

4. Turn the compression knob until you see (let's say) 2dB of gain reduction on the level meter at the output.

5. Adjust the R126 trimmer so the meter on the DAOC matches.

6. Remove the tone. The 0 position on the DAOC will be off.

7. Adjust the meter 0 trimmer until it's right.

8. Apply the tone again and adjust.

9. Rinse and repeat until it's good.

10. Adjust for more compression and repeat the previous steps. I would make the second point the maximum amount of compression you think you will use and the first point halfway between that and no compression.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 23, 2009, 01:05:17 PM
I installed the 1k 25W between secondary 250v rail and the board, it's a metal body wirewound
that bolts to the case.
My voltages all look "spot on" now and the heatsink runs totally cool, the 1k 25W gets about as warm as
a cup of coffee - so touchable, it's directly on the side of the case so has a HUGE heatsink.
I think this will all run cool and happy from now on.
I bought a few more as the Dual LA2a / PM670 have "european" traffo's expecting 220v an I'm at 249v here !!
heatsink runs cool  :) :) :)
249V : where are you living Marty ????
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 23, 2009, 03:38:32 PM

heatsink runs cool  :) :) :)
249V : where are you living Marty ????

UK, mains was 247v AC today, 249v last thursday !!

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 23, 2009, 04:45:59 PM
We've got a more stable mains here in France... The studio is at the end of the mains line and the voltage is 230 during cold days and 235 normal days... My home is at a perfect 240V anytime... French mains are from 230V up to 240V... The weird thing is to have 249V !!!
On the other end, mains are nuclear powered here... I can't say it's really cool !!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 24, 2009, 10:53:48 AM
A couple of photo's for Volkers D-AOC Virtual rack !!

With flash is better colour but has the "Flash" in the front ....

(http://www.pbase.com/image/109542785.jpg)


(http://www.pbase.com/image/109542794.jpg)


VU Bulbs are 12v connected in series, ( 24.2v rail ) but run quite hot ! .... ouch !

No Gut shot, there's a couple up anyway but it's not a "work of art" inside !!

Works great now and sounds GORGEOUS !

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on February 24, 2009, 11:22:48 AM
great Martin great great Martin great great Martin great great Martin great great Martin great great Martin great  
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 24, 2009, 11:27:57 AM
Thanks Bernd  :-)

Finally got it done .... like a year after everyone else !!

One of the bloody bulbs just burnt out :-(
Ordered some 24v 3watt ones from Canford along with some more meters for the Dual LA2a ...

How's it going my "Fellow synth genius" ????

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on February 24, 2009, 11:53:38 AM
Hi Martin,
everything is fine here. ATM I´m quite busy with my new (old) house. Lots of trouble with the craftsmen, especially the electricians. As soon as they see some water drops, they cry: moisture, alert. If they knew what we do here ... Enjoy you DAOC. The dual LA2A is a killer compressor, you´ll like it. I haven´t touched my synths for a few days now. I´ve already got withdrawal symptoms  ;D
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 25, 2009, 04:00:55 PM
Two words I will not soon forget: Cable Capacitance.

I replaced the input and output pots with trimmers mounted on the board and the frequency response is now flat to 20k. I was planning on making this a one knob compressor anyway. I am building four channel units so I have the boards mounted with the PS section towards the rear of the case. I probably have a longer run than most to the front panel.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 25, 2009, 04:08:39 PM
glad that you sorted it Paul :-)

My runs are only a few inches to the front and I had to carefully run the power cables from
the mid front away from them as I had some hum.

It's now as quiet as a mouse !

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 25, 2009, 04:10:14 PM
Two words I will not soon forget: Cable Capacitance.

I replaced the input and output pots with trimmers mounted on the board and the frequency response is now flat to 20k. I was planning on making this a one knob compressor anyway. I am building four channel units so I have the boards mounted with the PS section towards the rear of the case. I probably have a longer run than most to the front panel.
:) great you solved the problem
but  ???  what cables did you use ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on February 25, 2009, 06:18:59 PM

but  ???  what cables did you use ???


Mogami W2944 console cable. About 12". I made both channels the same length. Shield to ground. Would hookup wire work better? The left side needed to be that long. I am making 4 channel units. One PCB is mounted on the right side of the case with the PS at the back and the other board is mounted on the left side of the case in the same way. The longer run to the front panel is a little over 12". No way around it.

There is no power switch. Only the fused inlet.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: king-rb on February 26, 2009, 05:48:29 AM
hi there! i bought a nearly finished d-aoc from sinestaraudio with a
14v/2a-270v/0,08A transformer.
can someone confirm that this transformer will not kill the comp=?
i build it up and its running perfect. i used edcor 10k/600 and 600/10k and it sounds really good!!

thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 26, 2009, 06:21:06 AM
Transformer should be 250v @ 0.1a / 9v @ 2.5a and a third rail for lamps / bypass if needed.
You will need to drop both your 270 and 14 quite a bit ( 14v will become the 6.3 for heaters board expects 9v )

It's not quite right for the job.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 26, 2009, 08:43:20 AM
hi there! i bought a nearly finished d-aoc from sinestaraudio with a
14v/2a-270v/0,08A transformer.
can someone confirm that this transformer will not kill the comp=?
Your transformer will work with the D-AOC. You really need 1,8A for the heaters and about 0,06A for the HT. So your transformer hasn't got the amount of power that Volker and Analag like (they like oversized transformers), but it will work.
But as Marty said, be carefull of overheating components... If there's some, you'll have to reduce the ACs like he did.
It won't kill the comp.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: king-rb on February 26, 2009, 09:35:28 AM
perfect thy.. ho marty reduced the acs=?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 26, 2009, 01:50:10 PM
perfect thy.. ho marty reduced the acs=?

The secondary of my traffo was kicking out 300v AC instead of 250v ( due to high UK mains of 249v )
So a bit of "Ohms law" gave me a 1k resistor to drop 50v , between traffo secondary and the board, rated @ approx
25W  ... a 50W would be cooler but larger, it gets about as hot as a cup of coffee so not too bad.
It bolts to the case and is about 4cm long and 2 cm around.

You need to do something similar at your 14v tap also, though this is rated at 2 amps and you need to drop it
to 9v .... you'll need a large wirewound resistor ( like the one I used made of metal ) definately 50W or more !!
About a 2k2 to 2k5 should work of the top of my head ......
MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: king-rb on February 26, 2009, 02:09:39 PM
ah okay... i see but then its better to buy the right transformer wich only costs about 30,-€ hehe.. thank you all!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on February 26, 2009, 02:12:10 PM
ah okay... i see but then its better to buy the right transformer wich only costs about 30,-€ hehe.. thank you all!!

That's probably the better solution !!
Save it for another project hey ?

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 26, 2009, 02:13:32 PM
ah okay... i see but then its better to buy the right transformer wich only costs about 30,-€ hehe.. thank you all!!
30€ the transformer ? Where did you buy it ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: king-rb on February 26, 2009, 04:07:17 PM
Quote
30€ the transformer ? Where did you buy it ?
@ musikding.de

jeha will save the old one for another project heheh
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on February 26, 2009, 04:37:20 PM
Well !!! This one is perfect for the DAOC :
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1361_Toroidal-transformer-230V----250V--9V--24V.html (http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1361_Toroidal-transformer-230V----250V--9V--24V.html)
Really interresting seller  ::)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 09, 2009, 05:41:16 AM
Transformer question :

I'm not too "Up" on transformer usage etc and I'm wondering if I need a zobel network
on my D-AOC.
I can't seem to hear any issues right now, On inputs I have LL 3815 ( 1:5 ) and LL 3814 ( 3:2 C large C core )
on the outputs.
There's very limited info on these from Lundahl, just a pinout sheet really, I have them wired direct between
XLR's and board inputs.

Any thoughts welcome, it seems to sound fantastic and is quiet and hum free also.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 09, 2009, 01:19:15 PM
most (or all ?) Lundahls are Zobel free
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 09, 2009, 01:30:03 PM
Any thoughts welcome, it seems to sound fantastic and is quiet and hum free also.
MM.

"Never change a running system". Congrats to your D-AOC.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on March 14, 2009, 05:19:14 PM
I decided I wanted to figure out the compression ratio(s) of the DAOC.  I did some measurements. I am using a VTL5C2 so I'm not sure if it's the same as the VTL5C4.

I started by using a 1k tone at +4dBu. I adjusted the threshold until I had 3dB of compression. I wanted to get away from the knee to start. Here is what I measured. The first column is input level and the second column is output level.

+4 = +1
+6 = +1.8
+10 = +2.4
+12 = +3
+14 = +4.2
+16 = +5


Here is what I measured starting with an input level of -14dBu. Starting with 3dB of gain reduction like above.

-14 = -17
-12 = -16.4
-10 = -15.6
-8 = -15
-6 =-14.3
-4 = -13.4
-2 = -13
0 = -12.2

When I got the first set of numbers I thought the compression ratio was 2:1 because the ratios were close. But the second set of numbers didn't come close. I noticed that in both ranges for every 2dB increase at the input I got a .5dB increase at the output. That looks like a 6:1 compression ratio. Does a compression ratio refer to the voltage ratio? My math is really bad. I'm confused.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on March 19, 2009, 07:25:02 AM
Anyone can make photo from the toroidal transformer from musikding connected to the Daoc pcb ??  Just to be sure ...
Before i kill myself i want to be really sure of the connection from this transformer

Thanks 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on March 19, 2009, 07:31:10 AM
have a look at the d-aoc pics in the middle of the first post in this build thread:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29854.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29854.0)

hth, christoph

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on March 22, 2009, 12:20:25 PM
Hi,
I finished building the compressor and the result so far is a big failure. I made the right channel works correctly but the left channel there is no way that works.
The signal is passed correctly and arrive on the output, but the compression works only a few seconds, after this period of time the effect compression disappears, the vumeter returns to 0 value, meaning it is in bypass status.

A curiosity is that when I put the compressor in link mode, the channel left compressor works, but does so to a lesser extent than the right channel. I tried several different vactrols quite the same result, it is as if the right channel operates at 100% compression and the left channel only 50%. This is something I am confused.

All voltages of the circuit in both channels are correct. I changed all the pots, cables, valves, transformers, the Vumeter and the vactrol. I have checked all the capacitors are working correctly and it seems that there are no false contacts. The point is that I no longer know what else to do, I think it can not be changed more objects, but the left channel of the compressor still does not work. I do not know what can be wrong ... Does anyone have any idea to solve this whole issue?
Thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on March 22, 2009, 02:04:54 PM
Is any of the antek transformer models suitable for the D-AOC, assuming that you will use an extra small toroid for other duties if a third voltage is required? i mean, all of the tube models are 6.3+6.3v, and connected in series gives 12.6v, but the D-AOC are expecting 9V...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: AW_music on March 25, 2009, 05:42:09 AM
Have finished My Daoc!
Take a look.

Regards

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32714.0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on March 28, 2009, 08:46:20 PM
Well, after more than 120 hours of attempted solution, I am unable to run this thing ... the left channel does not compress. This is long time, overdue and I am not determine what is the problem. I disassembled the compressor up to 8 times! And always get the same results. It really is desperate, so I give up. White flag ...
Here is the schema with the values of the tension I have in the pcb.
(http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/607274/20090328/b_205352.jpg)
If anyone can get an idea on how to solve this problem continue to get it to work correctly, I will try. Otherwise I think I will make a bonfire and burn in the fire...  ::)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on March 31, 2009, 06:01:41 AM
Delaymix - first DO NOT give up on this !!
I'm sure that we can get it working with all the HUGE brains here :-0 ( mine is only medium sized !! )

So, your voltages look quite similar to mine which is working, the only one that seems a
bit low is the voltage @ R127 from the 1N5371/NE-2 you have only 51.6v on the left side.
Both of mine are nearer 59v
You say that one side seems to go into "bypass" and the meter rests back at zero, so are you
sure that you don't have a problem only with the "Bypass" board with the relay ??
Worth checking that out I would think.
I'm sure that Volker and others will "chime in" with suggestions also.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on March 31, 2009, 10:47:42 AM
Thanks MM. I'm still investigating to try to find out where the problem might be, but for now I have not made any progress.
When I refer to the left channel seems to work like you are in is because the bypass machine works, but does so completely in the absence of effect of compression.
The relays are all successful, or so it seems, work well, I have reviewed and tried to make sure no problem.
I am using neon lamps NE-2 instead of the 1N5371 diode.
An example to explain this a little better if you adjust the input level to ¾ of their total value or the maximum and the threshold of a compressor or ¾ full, then the left channel is behaving exactly as if the compression threshold was adjusted to its minimum value. The sound goes and everything is correct, but the sound is not compressed at all, just makes it a little when the switch link is activated.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on April 05, 2009, 09:42:05 AM
Well, I have continued searching to see where is the problem, but I still do not know what is the reason why the left channel does not compress. I think the problem is in the area of the side-chain because the impact is just as you remove the valve side-chain, the signal passes, but not compressed. However, I changed my valve, it could be a problem for the valve, but the problem persists. I'm using the ECC82 are new. All the resistors I used in the project are of metal film with a tolerance of 1%, capacitors WIMA and Solen, electrolytic 105 º. The assembly is clean and neat. Beginning to suspect that the problem lies in the PCB.
Could have gone bad and have a track with any manufacturing defect or crack and all that be the cause of this problem ...
Any idea or suggestion from anyone is welcome to try to make the compressor work properly. Thanks.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 05, 2009, 09:54:49 AM
Could have gone bad and have a track with any manufacturing defect or crack and all that be the cause of this problem ...
would be the first time, they come "electronically tested" (whatever that means)

what do we have ?
- both channels pass audio ?
- one channel doesn't compress ?

anyhow, how I would proceed:
- take the tubes out
- compare resistance values between the working and not working channel, mainly in the sidechain and around the vactrol
- if there is a fault (either component or PCB) you should find a difference

my first bet is the vactrol  ...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on April 05, 2009, 10:09:05 AM
Thanks silent:arts, as to a possible problem in the PCB is only a guess of mine, I'm not making a statement that it would be very difficult to prove. In case there was a crack could have been done during transport, handling etc ...
As explained above eight post (on previous page) I also changed the vactrol. In fact I have six available vactroles but the result is the same. To clarify this a bit more, I have changed:
Vactrol, valves, cables, input transformer, output transformer and pots. The result remains the same, and the tensions of work remain unchanged. (Schedule the voltages in the PCB of previous page).
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 05, 2009, 10:21:02 AM
As explained above eight post (on previous page) I also changed the vactrol. In fact I have six available vactroles but the result is the same. To clarify this a bit more, I have changed:
Vactrol, valves, cables, input transformer, output transformer and pots. The result remains the same, and the tensions of work remain unchanged. (Schedule the voltages in the PCB of previous page).
sorry, I don't have anybody's individual troubleshooting and history in mind all the time :-\
will send you a leftover PCB from the white christmas edition.
but never less, don't give up :)
the replacement PCB would be a restart.
finding the fault in your existing build would be a success experience.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on April 05, 2009, 10:39:03 AM
Thanks for you response. You are absolutely right. I assure you I would find where the problem. This is the most bizarre I have ever experienced. Nor is my first project, this cost me understand what is failing. :( I also checked one by one all the components of the left and are exactly the same that is on the right side. Cases like this are a bit frustrating ... ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on April 14, 2009, 12:58:56 PM
smal question before ordering the rest of the parts for this toy!

I've got the Tx from Musikding so 250v/24v/9v.
what value for c11/c12/c13?

Lolo-m who whas kind enough to share is Bom with me, listed c11 @ 4700uf, c13 @ 100nf and nothing for c12.

for those who used this trafo, can you give the correct value you've used please...

thanks.
Jr.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on April 14, 2009, 01:19:07 PM
Thanks for you response. You are absolutely right. I assure you I would find where the problem. This is the most bizarre I have ever experienced. Nor is my first project, this cost me understand what is failing. :( I also checked one by one all the components of the left and are exactly the same that is on the right side. Cases like this are a bit frustrating ... ???
Don't you have a break in one of the printboard-traces or maybe a short? If all parts are OK it must be somewhere else in the circuit..
This kind of stuff is indeed really frustrating.  >:(
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: delaymix on April 14, 2009, 04:25:11 PM
I'm still working on it, but I can not yet confirm the existence of a crack in the PCB. I thought back to initiate a comprehensive and detailed comparison of all the pieces one by one compared with the right side of the compressor in the hope of finding a solution. These days I am not proved possible to work on the project because I had work commitments.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on April 15, 2009, 04:18:40 AM
Quote
smal question before ordering the rest of the parts for this toy!

I've got the Tx from Musikding so 250v/24v/9v.
what value for c11/c12/c13?

Lolo-m who whas kind enough to share is Bom with me, listed c11 @ 4700uf, c13 @ 100nf and nothing for c12.

for those who used this trafo, can you give the correct value you've used please...

thanks.
Jr.


somebody pleaaazzzzz!! 8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on April 15, 2009, 04:33:32 AM
Quote
smal question before ordering the rest of the parts for this toy!

I've got the Tx from Musikding so 250v/24v/9v.
what value for c11/c12/c13?

Lolo-m who whas kind enough to share is Bom with me, listed c11 @ 4700uf, c13 @ 100nf and nothing for c12.

for those who used this trafo, can you give the correct value you've used please...

thanks.
Jr.


somebody pleaaazzzzz!! 8)

From this thread :-)

universal PSU
use this PSU for relay bypass, meter lamps, VU buffers, what you want.
if you don't plan to use any of the above you can just let this components out.
the output voltage is chosen by the 78XX you use.
take 7805 if you want 5V, 7812 for 12V, 7824 for 24V.
of course you need a matching secondary on your power transformer, and C11, C12 and C13 should be in the right voltage range.
if you want a real true hardwire bypass take very low values for C11 and C12.
at the moment my PSU3 holds the power for 4 seconds after switching off the unit, using 2200uF and 100uF (24V).
will have to change this since I want the compressor to be immediately in bypass after switching it off.

it is not necessary to insulate the 78XX from the heat-sink, but more elegant.
the PSU3 has its own ground path, you can use it floating, or use a little jumper (provided on the PCB) to connect the PSU3 ground to the main PCB ground.

I used 1000uf 35v/ 47uf 50v/ and 100nf 50v poly  ( IIRC )  this was using a 7824 so approx 24v in this area.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on April 15, 2009, 05:31:19 AM
perfect, thanks Marty!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pstcho on April 19, 2009, 04:04:00 PM
hello, the pcb are still available?

thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 19, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
hello, the pcb are still available?
5 PCBs of the white edition are still available
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pstcho on April 19, 2009, 05:19:53 PM
what about the price? shpping? and are all the documentations with the pcbs?

thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 19, 2009, 05:25:12 PM
what about the price? shpping? and are all the documentations with the pcbs?
PCB price is still EUR 33,- incl 2 Bypass PCBs.
I can tell you the shipping costs once you have updated your profile with your location, since it depends if you are in Germany, EU or rest of world.
You will find all documentations available here in this thread.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pstcho on April 19, 2009, 05:34:09 PM
perfect i'm in greece, in athens

thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 19, 2009, 05:39:17 PM
thanks, locations in profiles make the live here much more easy :)
this would be EUR 33 for the PCBs + EUR 6,55 for shipping in a registered letter = EUR 39,55 in total.
paypal is to [email protected]
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pstcho on April 19, 2009, 05:45:11 PM
maybe it will be a bit out of subject but: do you have another pcb to sell (for other diy projects)

thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 19, 2009, 05:54:47 PM
maybe it will be a bit out of subject but: do you have another pcb to sell (for other diy projects)
yes, this is out of topic.
however, I have organized a few group buys, and the few D-AOC PCBs are the only leftovers I have.
there might be more to come in the future ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on April 28, 2009, 04:07:25 PM
Two words I will not soon forget: Cable Capacitance.

I replaced the input and output pots with trimmers mounted on the board and the frequency response is now flat to 20k. I was planning on making this a one knob compressor anyway. I am building four channel units so I have the boards mounted with the PS section towards the rear of the case. I probably have a longer run than most to the front panel.
My DAOC had quite the roll of on the high end, starting at 2k and was about 3dB down around 16-20kHz.
I tried a few things, and even running unbalanced without transformers it still had the roll off.
I messed around with different value output caps, and that made no difference....................

So I took some advice from Gold's post, and jumpered some pots to see what would happen.
Nothing really changed much when I jumpered the input pot, but left the ouput pot. Maybe 1/2 a dB better.

But when I jumpered the output pot, but left the input pot, it measured nearly ruler flat frequency response ;D

But why would this happen?? Cable capacatance?? I don't really understand it, or why it only seems to effect this project.
Other projects have cables all over the show, and have great frequency response.
This is my first valve comp, so maybe I'm missing something.................

A lot of people mention how it sounds very warm,analog, smooth on the highend......... Maybe it's this roll off from the output pot that they are hearing? Mine sounds very clear and crisp now.

What's the best way to get around this? Having the output pot is very useful, but it messes my sound up???

Btw I've got most of the Kubi mods on mine. All but the step up transformer, or the changed output cap
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on April 28, 2009, 08:39:38 PM
i've looked through the entire thread and even at the poor man 660 wiring diagram and i still cannot figure how to hook up the bypass(relay) boards to the project. i could speculte as i have some ideas but i think it would be simpler if someone could tell me how  rather than correct my incorrect assumptions. xlrs are no problem and i see from the poor man diagram that the 2 pin molex is for power. i need to know where the 3 pin input and output molex connecters go (do i leave out the ground connection?) and where does the bypass switch get hooked up to.
first time dealing with a bypass. thanks for any help
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on April 28, 2009, 09:52:55 PM
What's the best way to get around this?

A very short cable run to the pot. I think using separate wires instead of a screened cable would help but I could be wrong about that.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: crisotop on April 29, 2009, 03:40:38 AM
@ seavote

Just follow the traces of the 3pin molex in/outpot connectors to the pcb-mount Neutrik XLRs - that should clearify things for sure. The Relais are in bypass when there's no voltage present (i.e. a switched off unit still passes dry audio), so you need to connect the bypass switch between your 5/12/24V relais voltage source and the 2pin molex at the bypass pcb.

hth, christoph
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on April 29, 2009, 04:11:37 PM
thanks. power through the on/off makes sense to me now.
so 3 pin xlr labeled input goes to primary of the input trans former??
    3 pin xlr labeled output comes from the secondary of the out put transformer??
i understand some but have a long way to go. so im not confident enough to hook up without confirmation from someone more knowledgable. :) :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 29, 2009, 05:58:31 PM
so 3 pin xlr labeled input goes to primary of the input trans former??
    3 pin xlr labeled output comes from the secondary of the out put transformer??
yes. the GND / HOT / COLD markings are in the position of the molex connectors for input and output.
if you are using screened cables I would suggest to only connect the screen at the Bypass PCB, and leave it open at the D-AOC PCB.
do a star ground from the D-AOC PCB, both Bypass PCBs and the Case, IEC outlet and you are fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on April 30, 2009, 07:23:57 PM
A very short cable run to the pot. I think using separate wires instead of a screened cable would help but I could be wrong about that.
You're on the money on this one ;D

Just took out my shielded cable and used two bits of cat5 wire. Figured the third shield wire could be skipped.

Ruler flat frequency response!!!! and I get to keep my output pot ;D

Now I just gotta sort out my relays again.............. but I'll ask stupid questions later, when I get time to mess with them......
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on May 06, 2009, 07:01:14 AM
Not sure if it may have come up before but i wanted to let you all know.

Last night one of my channels let me down, no sound coming through.
troubleshooting a stereounit is quite simple and so i soon found out that i had a dead R105 (R205) 47k resistor.
When i looked at the schematic i found out (already measured that) that is quite an important resistor for the high voltage of the tubes and i thought it was a bit strange to see it's just a 1/4 watt resistor.
Could it be that it burned down because of the high voltage/power it's handling? Didn't really check if it runs hot though, it's back in the rack again.  ;D
I didn"t have any 47k's at hand so i paralled 2x 100k to get 50k which did the job (did this on both channels) and with that i also doubled the wattage of the resistors.
So.. are 1/4 watt's ok here or should it indeed be bit higher?

I also had a burned down (soldering even let lose) R1 in the psu (470r 2watt) recently and so i also paralled 2 x 1k 2watt's but they are still running very hot as well. So R1 is also prefered a bit more then 2 watt i think.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on May 06, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
Thanks for the info about the burned resistors.  I'll be curious if anyone else has had these getting hot or burning out.


...i paralled 2x 100k to get 50k.

Does that work?  I would think you'd still get 100k.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on May 06, 2009, 04:12:22 PM
Thanks for the info about the burned resistors.  I'll be curious if anyone else has had these getting hot or burning out.


...i paralled 2x 100k to get 50k.

Does that work?  I would think you'd still get 100k.
yep: 2x 100k parallel is 50k, 2 x 100k serial is 200k  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on May 17, 2009, 08:56:12 PM
i bought some nylon screws,washers and nuts to isolate the voltage regulators in my project. will these melt if they get to hot?  will the lm350 get to hot for them?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: klaus2you on May 17, 2009, 10:09:54 PM
i bought some nylon screws,washers and nuts to isolate the voltage regulators in my project. will these melt if they get to hot?  will the lm350 get to hot for them?

Hi,
Your nylon screws should be fine but you could use some termaphase,silicon for the reg.

Title: some troubleshooting help?
Post by: seavote on June 03, 2009, 10:23:36 PM
hoping to get some trouble shooting help. i hooked up the 6.3V and 24VPSU supply. i adjusted trimmer to get 6.3V with tubes installed. then hooked up the 220V from the tranny to the D-aoc PCB. the fuse blew when i turned it on. i checked for anything grounding out,solder bridges up to the voltage regulator but found nothing. next i pulled the voltage regulator from the circuit thinking(maybe incorrectly) that it would isolate the circuit up to that part.  installed another fuse and tried again. no luck. first i'd like to establish whether im using the correct fuse.
in a previous thread someone stated they were using a slow blow 250ma fuse at 220  so a 500ma would be good for110V. i asked for this at the electronics store. the salesman gave me 500ma fuse that has some 220V and 120V ratings that i dont understand.they are as follows:IR 35A  250V
                                                                           IR 10KA 120V
      is this the voltage drop thru the fuse itself? and how do i use that info? i believe it might be important to know im using an ac inlet with a fuse for both the hot and nuetral. does this change the values i should be using? i put 500ma in both.
      the hot is in series with the on/off switch and i have a 120V indicator lamp (3 watts i believe?) hooked up in series befor the power transformer.
       with the fuse for the hot not installed i turned on the comp and bridged the hot fuse with my meter to see how much current was being drawn. this blew the fuse in the nuetral side. i never checked the voltage coming from the 220V leg of the transformer but i'll need to get some more fuses befor i try that.
 assuming the fuse i've been using is correct. where (how)do i test next? thanks for any help and ideas.
                     chris
      


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 04, 2009, 01:34:51 PM
Hi,
check the power tx´s primary. Are there two winding with 110V each? Maybe they are connected wrong.
Here´s a little helper:

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/How_to_connect_Power_Transformers.gif)
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 04, 2009, 08:48:34 PM
thanks for the reply. i understand how to hook up the transformers and "knew" that i hooked them up correctly. but i checked  that yesterday anyway. its ok. correct me if im wrong but my thinking was that if i got the correct voltages from the 6.3V and 24V legs of the PSU the tranny hook up must be correct. is that untrue?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 05, 2009, 05:30:01 AM
yes, since your heater voltage and the 24V work you have connected the transformer correct.
without the regulator you are isolated from the circuit if D5 and the 3 zener diodes are wired the correct way (I start looking for that).

would need to look in mine, but I think I mostly use a 500mA fuse (230V).
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 05, 2009, 09:44:04 PM
thanks silent. checked diode direction.all good. checked for open diodes(in that part of PSU, )none.tested in circuit. i did find that the primary wires to the left side output transformer were reversed. would this be the cause of the blown fuse? i also found the middle pin of the lm350 is grounding out. strangly it is not connecting to ground thru the IC itself. it's hooked up off board to the chassis through a molex connector. when dissconnected the middle leg is isolated. ive tested for connection to ground on the pcb and havent found anything yet. i havent removed and flipped over the pcb for a better look though. im going to givr the entire solder side of the pcb a good cleaning and see if that helps any.. Any further suggestions are welcome thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 06, 2009, 05:05:08 AM
the reversed output transformer won't blow your fuse.
for the LM350 (it is mounted insulated to the chassis, isn't it?):
take out all tubes and measure again pin2 to GND.
if there is no short now everything is fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 06, 2009, 08:12:51 AM
yes, lm350 is isolated from chassis. my explaination may not have been  clear. when the lm 350 is disconnected from the PCB it is not connected to ground. the middle pin of the molex connector (on the PCB)is showing continuity to ground. that is a very short trace from that pin so i'm thinking when i remove the PCB from the chassis and flip the board to the solder side the place where it is grounding out will be apparent. from the component side of the board i haven't been able to determine the problem.ill pull the tubes also.
. cant get to the project till monday. thanks for all your help
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 08, 2009, 09:39:20 PM
with tubes out there was no grounding from pin 2. but im still not sure why my fuses blow.
i believe i have something grounded,or hooked up incorrectly in the 24V leg of the circuit. the symptom is that i only get voltage to the relays when both bypass switches are in the on position. if either switch is in the off position i get 0V to both relays. i haven't spent time or thought on this problem yet .i'll take look tomorrow and see if i can figure it out. but any ideas are welcome.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 09, 2009, 04:36:10 AM
sounds like you wired the bypass switches / PCBs for both channels in series  8)
Title: Relay Hook up
Post by: seavote on June 09, 2009, 05:08:38 PM
didnt get a chance to work on the project today. i dont remember how it is hooked up. i believe i split the 24V of the psu into two legs and wired each in series. i'll check and redo tomorrow. i picked up 1a fuses today for the project. im thinking if you used 500ma at 230. the current will be double at 115V. is that correct? might be the answer to my fuse problem. thanks for all the help
EDIT
this is a diagram of how i first hooked upthe relay boards.i believed they were working fine because i was using only one channel at a time.when i tried both channels at once
i onlygot one channel. i believe i need to lift the ground from one of the boards. i'll do it and get back with results.  sorry if anyone hooked up their unit like this
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/seavote/small.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on June 09, 2009, 05:56:56 PM
I'm using 500ma fuses with no problems at 120vac.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on June 09, 2009, 07:51:04 PM
thanks gold. i'll have to buy and try 500ma again.  after the few changes i've made (will be making)maybe i'll be ok.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on June 09, 2009, 11:22:55 PM
I'm using slo-blo's which probably makes a difference.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 10, 2009, 03:02:36 PM
rewired the backwards input pot. seems the input was not the only pot wired backwards. makes sense i guess .did the first one wrong and then did the same with all the rest. rewired all pots but im not out of the woods yet. heater V good. 24V PSU voltage good, relays work as they should. low B+ voltage. here is a diagram of what im getting:

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/seavote/myD-aocvoltages.jpg)

the neon bulb in the meter circuit(left side) is not lighting.it was  lighting at one time but went out after i hooked the pots up correctly. i replaced with a new bulb but it is not lighting. the voltage on the left channel at r127 is only 10Vs all other voltages are those  in the yellow on the diagram.

unit (left and right channel)is passing audio (input and output pots working)but not compressing
i  lifted a leg of r128 and r228 isolating the PSU from the rest of the circuit. i am getting around 350Vdc from the supply. shouldnt the regulator be putting out about 250V? or am i getting the corect non loaded V? i'd like to know if i should change the voltage regulatoor rule out the psu as the source of my units symptoms. please  help! ???
thanks chris V
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 23, 2009, 10:57:08 PM
Bump. see above. checked for the usual. solder bridges,cold solders,etc all seems ok. switched tubes(that tested good) from left to right channel and left channel put up the same voltages and symptoms
any ideas? please
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 24, 2009, 12:07:42 PM
with no load the B+ regulator doesn't work.
what's your (loaded) regulator output voltage?
(just measure the other side of R128).

the neon bulb doesn't need to light (and won't with only 51V).
your left channel for sure has a problem with only 10V.

it is passing audio = good.
not compressing: you need a really hot signal at the input in "stock" mode.
do you have an oscilloscope?
put the probe at the right pin from the stereo link connector.
can you see a signal there?
it might even compress now!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 24, 2009, 05:54:30 PM
thanks for the reply:
"what's your (loaded) regulator output voltage?"

165V (see the diagram in previous post)

"the neon bulb doesn't need to light (and won't with only 51V)"
the neon lights with 51Vs . left does not?

"not compressing: you need a really hot signal at the input in "stock" mode."
I'm using the full wave Kubi mod. i should have mentioned this. the over all gain of the unit does seem low. i cant really judge as im putting it through an unfamiliar amp at work. i am using a dynamic mic to test with but input is full up and theshold knob ,compression, is full up .

"do you have an oscilloscope?
put the probe at the right pin from the stereo link connector.
can you see a signal there?"


 i have no oscilliscope. i do have access to one however and i knew there would come a time  to learn how to use one.(i learn more with every project, more on this project and the tube mic i had to troubleshoot than the projects that worked on first try). i did check the stereo link for continuity and all was fine. i'll get that oscilliscope. familiarize myself with it and perform the test you suggested. thanks for the ideas.
                              chris v

 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 25, 2009, 03:21:13 AM
Hi Chris,

looking at the measuring (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg318801#msg318801)  I doubt a dynamic Mic will have enough output to make it compress, even with the Kubi Advanced mods.

one other thing to check:
remeasure the voltages of the good channel with the tubes of the other channel removed.
any changes?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on July 25, 2009, 06:15:31 AM
Chris, my version has several of the Kubi mods ( cap changes etc ) and a 1:5 Lundahl input transformer.
Even so, with a quite meaty DI'd bass on input I have to have the compression control at 2 o'clock to
get any compression !
From a dynamic mic ( this isn't mic-pre type gain at the front ) you will have nothing going on, just not
enough level going in to compress.
It's expecting balanced line level input to do it's thing.
Best of luck with the voltage problems, you will find the reason for that - what are your voltages after the
regulators looking like ?

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on August 11, 2009, 05:27:24 PM
the link to "the kubi advanced version" on the first page doesn't work. Can't find it. Would be nice to see what the mod does.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on August 12, 2009, 05:06:14 AM
the link to "the kubi advanced version" on the first page doesn't work. Can't find it. Would be nice to see what the mod does.

Perhaps there is a reason for Kubi's version details being deleted, I would suggest sending him a PM ( Darius )
and ask if you can get the details for this mod.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 12, 2009, 06:48:49 AM
ChrioN, I've got it in a Word format!
pm me your email, I will send it to you.

cheers.
Jr.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on August 12, 2009, 08:50:33 AM
It's still on his website....

http://audio.kubarth.com/daoc/
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: maxheadroom on August 13, 2009, 06:30:28 AM
Not sure if it may have come up before but i wanted to let you all know.

Last night one of my channels let me down, no sound coming through.
troubleshooting a stereounit is quite simple and so i soon found out that i had a dead R105 (R205) 47k resistor.
When i looked at the schematic i found out (already measured that) that is quite an important resistor for the high voltage of the tubes and i thought it was a bit strange to see it's just a 1/4 watt resistor.
Could it be that it burned down because of the high voltage/power it's handling? Didn't really check if it runs hot though, it's back in the rack again.  ;D
I didn"t have any 47k's at hand so i paralled 2x 100k to get 50k which did the job (did this on both channels) and with that i also doubled the wattage of the resistors.
So.. are 1/4 watt's ok here or should it indeed be bit higher?


strange, because i had the same fault on one of my channel :-)
few weeks ago, one channel had a fault, no sound coming thru.
i thought that a tube brokes, and i bought some new.
yesterday i opened the DAOC to repair that channel.
after swapping some tubes, that one channel still have that fault.
next step was tracing the signal from the input to the output.
the first tube stage gives no output.
diagnose: no B+ supply on the ECC81 tube (V101A) caused by a broken 47k resistor (R105)
you can't see visually damages on the resistor, but after measuring the resistor is definitly broken.
i measured on the other (working) channel the voltage drop in the 47k resistor (R205) and i measure 108V
that gives a power rating of 108*108/47k = 0,248W.
i think a 0.5W (or parallel, serial two right resistors) gives a better lifetime :-)
because i had my DAOC almost one year in use and nothing happened.

in this way i can mod a little bit. i will replace my current 1:1 input transformers to 600:10k.
and one channel with kubis mods (increasing some cap values) to can make a listening comparison.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on August 24, 2009, 05:13:32 AM
I may have a problem with my D-AOC's input.
I used Lundahl LL 3815's wired as 1 : 5 and when sending a balanced input from my DAW
this seems to "bottom out" quite easily IE: There's bottom end "thumps" and distortion, unless
input gain is reduced by about 6 to 8 dB.
It's working fine otherwise but makes switching between D-AOC / Pico / GSSL for mastering comparisons a
little fiddly.
Should I replace with something that's perhaps a 1 : 2 stepup ?? .... or just leave the input gain down on
the D-AOC  ( worried about noise s/n ratio etc )

Ta,

Marty.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 24, 2009, 05:22:28 AM
can't find a datasheet for the LL3815  >:(

mhm, the input control is after the transformer.
same symptoms with no compression (threshold all down)?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on August 24, 2009, 06:06:46 AM
can't find a datasheet for the LL3815  >:(

mhm, the input control is after the transformer.
same symptoms with no compression (threshold all down)?

It's all fine if I reduce the DAW output but the other units seem to accept this level with no problems.
It's the same with no compression, just seems like an input gain issue.
I will look at my gain structure a bit more, here's the LL3815 details that I have :

   •   
LL3815 is a small mu metal core microphone / line input transformer, turns ratio 1+1 : 5
   •   
   •   Usage, 1 : 5
   •   
   •   In+      pin 1 + pin 4
   •   In-      pin 2 + pin 3
   •   
   •   out+      pin 8
   •   out-      pin 6
   •   Shields      pin 5
   •   
   •   no pin at 7
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 24, 2009, 06:25:59 AM
It's all fine if I reduce the DAW output but the other units seem to accept this level with no problems.
It's the same with no compression, just seems like an input gain issue.

oh, I might have misunderstood reducing the "input gain"
you don't mean the D-AOC input control?
you mean lowering the output of your DAW?

this makes more sense.

LL3815 is a small mu metal core microphone / line input transformer, turns ratio 1+1 : 5

does not sound like this transformer can handle too much input level.
+4 and more dBu at 1:5 is a hard job for a "small" transformer, especially if build for low microphone levels.

Marty, you could try rewiring it to 2:5, or just put a PAD in front.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on August 24, 2009, 06:37:09 AM
Hi Volker, thanks for the "tips" - I'm actually hitting it quite hard from my system, so in
a mix situation with some "headroom" at the DAW end I think it will be OK.
I was checking with a "maximized" stereo mix and it was quite "FULL ON"  !!!

If I get more issues down the line, I can simply swop the transformers for something a
bit more "beefy" as I have a set of Edcors for this and some bigger 1 : 2 Lundahls too.

Sounds wonderful with tracks through it and not even compressing !! ... hmm ..... Valves :-)

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on August 31, 2009, 11:09:39 PM
hello after making some progress with my project i hoping some one more knowledgable may help diagnose my builds problem. right channel works fine. the left channel seems to do everything it should except compress. had the same input going into the left channel that allowed the right channel to compress so it shouldnt be an issue of input level. i've checked r111 and r127 by removing one leg from the board.changed the neon bulb to a 1n5371. the main symptom that presents itself and is probably a good clue to finding the error in my build is that the voltage on the zener diode side of r127(where i should be getting 62V according to the posted voltage values) is variable when i adjust the trimmer RV104. my next attempt is to replace the trimmer. but i've already lost two pads on the pcb while doing some of kubis mods and repairing the PSU etc so if any one has an idea based on the symptoms please let me know. the readings are the same with the meter attached to the board or not. stereo link attached to the board or not and with the stereo link switched on or off. tubes in or out.  thanks for any ideas
chris v
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 01, 2009, 12:24:25 PM
Hi Chris,

the voltages around the neon / zener doesn't affect compression, this is only the metering circuit. I doubt replacing the RV104 will change anything - the variable voltage there is fine, it is to null the meter.

if it passes audio fine, and does anything expect compression there are only two possibilities:
- a faulty vactrol
- an error in the sidechain amp
compare the signal from both channels (referenced to GND / PL102 Pin1) with the same input signal at PL102 Pin2 (stereo link)
Threshold pot (RV102) comes in mind too.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on September 01, 2009, 05:43:51 PM
thanks for the "heads up" (us slang only?) u
after some more thought i did relize the trimmer was probablynot the problem,but did n't know where else to start looking.
 
"the variable voltage there is fine"

i thought it was significant because the right channel (the working channel) does not show this behavior.
i believe i checked out rv102 but i've done so much poking around with my DMM i'm not sure. i'll start there to make sure.

compare the signal from both channels (referenced to GND / PL102 Pin1) with the same input signal at PL102 Pin2 (stereo link)
i dont follow what your telling me. pl102 is stereolink connector yes?
compare dc Voltage readings?  ac readings with an audio signal present? wave form with a oscilliscope, as discribed above?
also pin 1 of stereolink is not connected to ground on my build. since it is not used i thought it would make no difference. your just using it for reference to ground in this instance yeah?
sorry im so "thick" (more slang)

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 01, 2009, 06:01:32 PM
no englsich us slang from me, I have never been there. might be just my crapy english and adapting questions language to answers  ;D ;D ;D

let us concentrate to the sidechain amp:
the PL102 is the stereo link connector, yes.
but it contains the signal going to the vactrol.
this signal is neither rectified nor DC, it is an AC audio signal. never tried it, but should be easily heard with a headphone / little speaker. threshold closed there should be nothing, threshold up there should be most.
if both channels are the same there, it is - to 99% - a faulty vactrol.

the ground reference at the stereo link is only to easily use shielded cables for the stereo link wiring, but it comes in handy for measuring.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on September 01, 2009, 07:11:12 PM
"heads up"(a warning)
you misunderstood . i was just wondering if this phrase in native to US only or if it is used in other English speaking countries.
its good to narrow down the possible causes of the problem to a small area. i'll be using this unit soon!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on September 11, 2009, 09:38:56 PM
armed with my high tech audio tracer (a 1/4" plug attached to 2 alligator clips plugged into a bass amp) i discovered the audio signal was making its way to the stereo link.great! 99% chance its the vactrol ! ordered my new vactrol and installed. ... ouch still not compressing.  but since you(silent arts) pointed out that i should be looking at the sidechain for problems, i took out a copy of the schematic and highlighted all the components in that part of the circuit. befor long i discovered a bad (non) connection between  pin 2 of the the threshold molex connector and the PCB trace. both channels are now working correctly and are quiet. just have to hook up the meter lampps and calibrate the meters. thanks for the PCB and all your help. cant wait to run the compressor thru its paces!!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 12, 2009, 01:03:19 AM
good news  8) 8) 8)
enjoy your D-AOC  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on September 18, 2009, 04:26:58 AM
Hi all ,

Befor inserting the tubes i wanted to know something ...
What are voltage befor insert tubes ?
1/ ive trim LM350 to get 6,3 v ---ok  
--Should i readjust it to 6,3v also when tubes will be insert ?? --

2/ I plug the 250v from musikding transformer.

When i measure DC at R128 i get something like 330v and more ... is it because i dont insert tubes ??
Should i insert tubes to get the 243 v there ??

Thanks


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Kingston on September 18, 2009, 05:41:29 AM
yes to both questions. re-adjust the regulator with the tubes in (it probably won't need adjusting), and yes, the voltages will drop to 230-250VDC levels with the tubes in. Current is pulled through the PSU resistors, voltage drops.

Sometimes I wonder if these high voltage tube projects might be a little too dangerous for people who don't know Ohms law.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on September 19, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
Thanks Kingston !!

Yes im little affraid about that Highvoltage  ( first time i use tubes )
Ok the compresseur seems to work .. but when i plug the input transformer i only get high without Bass . ( without transformer all is good )

I use Xs1100 from Edcor and i did as show there :(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5722/xs1100.th.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/xs1100.png/)

input + to pin 1  input - to pin 2 and then ive connect pin 1 to 4 and pin 2 to 5
output + is pin 7 output - is pin 10 and ive connected Pin 8 and 9 together
Whats wrong ??

2/ I ve a couple of Dpdt with led and im searching the best way to get a 6 v , Is the best way is to create a new little Psu from output transformer 24v ?? or better to use the existing 24 v from psu 3 ??

Thanks all


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on September 19, 2009, 10:26:40 AM
Ok the compresseur seems to work .. but when i plug the input transformer i only get high without Bass . ( without transformer all is good )

I use Xs1100 from Edcor and i did as show there :(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5722/xs1100.th.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/xs1100.png/)

input + to pin 1  input - to pin 2 and then ive connect pin 1 to 4 and pin 2 to 5
output + is pin 7 output - is pin 10 and ive connected Pin 8 and 9 together
Whats wrong ??

As i pointed out here (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=17980.640) and here (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35425.0) i suspect that Edcor has incorrect information on their homepage. Note that i have NOT had the opportunity to try this transformer for myself so i don't know what is correct.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on September 19, 2009, 10:50:13 AM
Hi,
this might help you to check the wiring. The image shows a 2:1 wiring. For the D-AOC a step up configuration (1:2) is needed. The XS1100 is an output tx. It should work as input tx in the D-AOC, but other transformer might perform better. Check the frequency response.

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/XS1100_bottom_view.JPG)

regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on September 19, 2009, 11:08:26 AM
Bernd, have you used XS1100 so you can confirm that the phase info here (http://edcorusa.com/Products/ShowProduct.aspx?ID=547) is wrong? If so we should tell edcor to change it.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on September 19, 2009, 11:28:46 AM
Hi,
I used Lundahls for my D-AOC, but I once tested the XS1100 for this compressor. Compare the drawings and especially the pin numbering on Edcors website with my data sheet:

Edcors website:

(http://edcorusa.com/Images/Products/SCM/XS1100.png)

My data sheet:

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/XS1100_pin_numbering.JPG)


Yes, it seems that phase is inverse in their drawing.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on October 05, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
Just finishing of the PCB now, better late than never ::)

I'm not using any relays so can someone please confirm the PSU3 C11 /C12 electro cap values if I'm just needing 12V with a 7812 regulator for use just with a pair of sifam AL29 VU meters. I'm using the Musikding transformer for 240V. Can I use the same values as those used for 24V / 7824 reg? 2200uf / 100uf are listed on the BOM

Cheers JK
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on October 06, 2009, 05:13:32 AM
Hi JK,
confirmed! The caps have to be in the voltage range. With 63V or 100V you won´t have any trouble. I can´t remember the specs of the Musikding transformer. If sec.3 is giving 24V it might be better to take the 7824 reg and put the meter lights in series. 24V from the transformer might cause a lot of heat with a 7812 reg.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on October 06, 2009, 07:26:02 AM
Hi JK,
confirmed! The caps have to be in the voltage range. With 63V or 100V you won´t have any trouble. I can´t remember the specs of the Musikding transformer. If sec.3 is giving 24V it might be better to take the 7824 reg and put the meter lights in series. 24V from the transformer might cause a lot of heat with a 7812 reg.
regards
Bernd

That's exactly what I did and it worked fine, go with 7824.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on October 06, 2009, 10:47:59 AM
OK Thanks for the replies chaps ;D I'll go with 24V then!

Was just asking questions due to losing all the computer data & info I had on this & a couple of other builds so I've had to revise it all again to make sure I'm on the right track :o

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on October 19, 2009, 05:23:25 PM
I finally start to work on my Daoc.
I wondered if this could work for the input?

600:9,6k

(http://www.jlmaudio.com/shop/images/uploads/JLM14sm.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 19, 2009, 05:26:18 PM
untested. and as far as I know a Mic Input Transformer?
if it can handle line levels I can't see why it shouldn't work.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on October 19, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
I just thought that we have a lot of good tx around here, made by diy people and pretty cheap.
I prefer to give my money to these guys than to some big company!

It could be an exotic unit!

so in "theory" every 600:10k should work?
same as EA 2622

(http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/gallery/2622/top.jpg)

Altran C-3837-1
but it's 600:15k, maybe it's too much resistance on secondary?
(http://hairballaudio.com/shop/images/C38371.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 19, 2009, 05:56:02 PM
I just thought that we have a lot of good tx around here, made by diy people and pretty cheap.
I prefer to give my money to these guys than to some big company!

It could be an exotic unit!

so in "theory" every 600:10k should work?
I like this statement ;)

however, the official analag specs are still 10k:10k
we have seen step up transformers work better for lower levels.
the EA2622 is a MicPre transformer, have to ask Jeff about the levels.
[well, I have two of those at home, but no time for measuring - mid november I can do]
the Altran C-3837-1 is used in a Urei Compressor Clone?
Line Level should be fine here.

[untested] I would say: yes, will work.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on October 20, 2009, 05:21:23 AM
thanks Volker!

Quote
I like this statement

ha ha, no doubt... ;)

and yes the Altran is input tx for rev A/D 1176
I'll go that route...

need to find an out tx now!

BTW, just for my knowledge, what could be the risk to use an input mic tx if it has the same impedance?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 20, 2009, 05:52:43 AM
...BTW, just for my knowledge, what could be the risk to use an input mic tx if it has the same impedance?
a mic in tx is build for mic levels, if you feed it with line level (+4 dBu and higher) it might saturate and distort.
a cinemag CMMI-8PCA in example has 1% THD @ -2 dBu (20 Hz)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: diyfanatic on October 20, 2009, 07:22:27 AM
understood, thanks Volker.
I'm working hard to be the beautifullest DAOC in the picture rack!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on November 15, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
Got a problem with my unit. The left and right side react differently. I've taken the vactrols out to locate it. Nailed it down to this: With the "output level" and "theshold" pots not connected the "input" pots (which otherwise, unconnected, work all right) read different values:

The first one shows 0/18KOhm 95k/18KOhm at max/min
The second one shows 0/18KOhm 95K/0 Ohm at max/min

Checked solder joints, resistors on the board etc, couldn't find any fault. Can someone give me a hint? Is there something obvious to check from the schematics? Or at least which channel is actually running as it should be?

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on November 16, 2009, 05:06:09 AM
Anyone? The values are measuered between wiper 1+2 and 2+3.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Sredna on November 16, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
It's not clear what value belongs to what position (at least not for me  :-[)

Please rewrite it.

The max position is when the wiper (pin 2) has contact (0 ohm) with pin 3.

Try measuring the resistance between ground and both sides of R103...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on November 16, 2009, 09:31:15 AM
Thanks, I figured it out now. It was a defective pot, somehow this was only recognizeable when it was connected. That was the last time I used cheap pots. Now I'm thinking about putting all stepped attenuators in there...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on November 30, 2009, 03:26:25 PM
Hi All
I'm looking for the D-AOC PCB
Anyone can help me to find it
Please let me know
Thank you
Fabio
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on November 30, 2009, 04:44:17 PM
I'd just like to say that this has become my favorite vocal comp!!
There's something about it thats just right, and it does something lovely to just about any singer. I love my 1176s and various others too, but this one is special. ;D

I haven't got any inside pics, but I can tell you i used jensens 10k:10k on the input and some edcor wsm 10k:600 on the output. I did most of the Kubi mods except the step up input transformer, and I still used the solen cap on the output. Tubes are mullards and phillips. I'm not too good with cameras tho, so excuse the average photo.
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/87/l_e6dfccf25dfa43e680852ca7ab6eade0.jpg)

Btw its also quieter than most of my other comps too. I was expecting is to be noisier being valve, but I'm glad I was wrong.......

Thanks Analag, Volker, Kubi and everyone whos contributed to this thread....(sounds like a lame acceptance speech, i know..........)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on November 30, 2009, 06:41:49 PM
Way to go lowfreq!

Fabio, you're inbox is full. pm your email address , I got a pcb for you.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TheGuitarist on December 06, 2009, 01:15:50 AM
Ok so i had a good look and couldn't find any details on this, how does the bypass pcb get connected to a switch... what sort of switch rather? is it when the two wires are connected together it is bypassed or how does it work.

I'd like to use a 2 pos rotary switch if at all possible.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 06, 2009, 04:36:16 AM
I'd like to use a 2 pos rotary switch if at all possible.

it is possible.

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/HWBP36.gif)

with nothing connected it is in bypass mode.
pin 2 of the 2pin Molex on the right goes to the Bypass PSU GND.
apply the pos Bypass Voltage to pin 1 = no Bypass.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: TheGuitarist on December 06, 2009, 04:43:03 AM
So basically all i have to do is just have the voltage going into the input of the switch, and then on the 2nd position (or 1st i guess) just have the tab that you'd ordinarily connect a resistor to, just connect the wire going back to complete the circuit.

Awesome.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on December 06, 2009, 11:02:59 AM
Today i finally had the time to experiment with input transformers.

I allways had some hi freq loss with the edcor 10k/10k transformers and i had some LL1521's laying around (who doesn't). So i wired one channel with edcor and the other with the lundahl and man.. what a difference! Even on my cheapo (90 euro's) behringer monitors i have in the workshop i heard quite a big improvement in the hi-end.
So in installed the LL1521 on the other channel and went to the studio and man, it really sounds GREAT this way! Not only the hi-end improved a LOT but i also feel that the low end sounds tighter as well. Basically, the unit now upgraded from good to great!


No more edcors for me.. even tough they are cheap i don't like the sound. (pm670 low end loss counts as well)

Just wondering, i have 2 more 1521's, can i use these in the output or will i run into problems with impedance?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on December 06, 2009, 01:27:29 PM

Just wondering, i have 2 more 1521's, can i use these in the output or will i run into problems with impedance?
1521 won't work as output transformers as the ratio can't be better than 2,28:1 (if you parrallel the 1 + 1 )and you need minimum 4:1 ratio to be able to drive the 600 ohms loads.
In some cases, it'll work mainly with most new gear as their inputs are about 10K or more. But you'll find situations where your DAOC outputs will be loaded with a 600 ohm and the 12AU7 are not able to drive such a low impedance. You'll lose most of the signal  :-\ and you'll lose all the bass in the signal left  :'(... Don't go that way if you want to get a secure gear. Think about buying 2 good 4:1 output transformers... But I'm not sure you'll get a huge improvement. Edcors are not great transformers but they certainly give the gear a sound...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on December 06, 2009, 01:32:03 PM
Shameless black market spam... :P

I've 6 X Lundahl 1521 for sale here

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=36585.0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on December 10, 2009, 02:18:51 PM
Just wondering, my D-AOC has some differences between left and right in the compression character which i think is coming from the vactrols. I swappad tubes and exchnaged the inputs trafo's with lundahls but i still have some differences going on.
Is there a way to match the vactrols? i received 4 new vactrols today so i can experiment but it would be better/easier to do some measuring before i start soldering. I'm also going to anti parallel the vactrols as in the kubi advanced version, i have 6 vactrols in total now so i think there must be a matched pair there.  ;D

Any idea how to match the vactrols?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on December 10, 2009, 05:57:54 PM

Any idea how to match the vactrols?

I asked this question and Kubi answered it, but I can't find it in this thread. I couldn't find the "advanced"  thread either.

You have to match the current between vactrols. Pick a voltage in the middle of the compression range and then find the current draw of the vactrol. I have an HP bench supply that has a current meter so it was easy for me to match them. If you don't have a current meter you can put a resistor in series with the output and measure the voltage drop. I think that last part is correct but I hope someone who knows will confirm.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: analag on December 10, 2009, 06:25:33 PM
While you are matching the LED's what about the photo-resistive element. I'm sure they don't drop resistance equally to the same level of illumination.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Gold on December 10, 2009, 07:25:59 PM
I did it before I had heard it. I figured it couldn't hurt. It sounds great so I know it didn't hurt.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on December 11, 2009, 09:37:40 AM
OK, it looks like something was wrong with the vactrols i had in originally, like i said, i thought they had  quite a missmatch and both channels responded quite differently.
Today i replaced both vactrols just to try this out and suddenly both channels respond in the same way!  :o
After that I also paralleled the vactrol in reverse with another vactrol (order 4 new ones) and it does make a difference indeed! The other KUBI mods where in there before so now my d-aoc is a 100% kubi version. :) it now came alive and really sounds great! I can say that i love the d-aoc much more then my pooman now and i know i will be using it much more now.  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on December 19, 2009, 07:33:53 PM
Just finished soldering. But my R1 is smoking like a chimney...  ???

An earlier post showed the same problem and it was solved by putting in 2x 1k 2W resistors in parallel, though they went hot, too. I put in the same amount, still it smokes the very second i plug it in.

I got 277VAC without load. Every piece in that region seems to be ok and in place. All diodes are in the right direction.

Can the problem be anywhere else?


edit: also the NE2 don't light up...

can someone help?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on December 20, 2009, 08:23:08 AM
Just finished soldering. But my R1 is smoking like a chimney...  ???

An earlier post showed the same problem and it was solved by putting in 2x 1k 2W resistors in parallel, though they went hot, too. I put in the same amount, still it smokes the very second i plug it in.

I got 277VAC without load. Every piece in that region seems to be ok and in place. All diodes are in the right direction.

Can the problem be anywhere else?


edit: also the NE2 don't light up...

can someone help?

Micha, did you use the German mains transformer from the group buy ?
I'm in the UK and have approx 245v AC from the wall, German transformer is built for 220v AC so
I had almost 300v entering the board - a bit more than you but it was burning up a couple of parts.
Solution was to use a 1k 25watt metal body resistor between transformer secondary and the board.
That got my voltages down and no parts were stressed, cost just a few £'s

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on December 20, 2009, 09:01:04 AM
thanks for the tip MM, i'll try that.

I did no group buy, but my transformer (musikding/Badel Elektronik) was mentioned already in this context.

just now i pulled the R1 and measured 251 where R1 sits.

It's sunday, so i'll have to start drilling holes instead of buying the resistor...          :P

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on December 20, 2009, 10:22:26 AM
Mischa ( sorry for the typo earlier ! ) Make sure that you bolt the metal resistor to the case
as it still gets a bit warm - I'm able to touch mine, gets as warm as a coffee mug, which is fine.
You could go for a 50watt instead, which will stay very cool :-)
You obviously just need one resistor in series with one of the secondary large voltage connections.

Just checked, due to my higher voltage, I needed a 1k1 so you may be fine with a 750ohm or so.

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on December 21, 2009, 12:45:06 PM
Thanks again, MM! The unit finally works!

However it was not the R1 or the voltage, but my stupidity: i didn't realize that the tl783 was grounded, so i had to solder off the heatsink...  :-\

Now it compresses and i can drill holes  :D


cool forum :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 21, 2009, 12:52:29 PM
cool this is sorted out.

I don't ground heatsinks anymore, but reading some threads I think I should do again :o
why?
at least with the high voltages you should ALWAYS mount the voltage regulator ISOLATED.
you want to be able to touch it for checking heat etc ...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on December 24, 2009, 08:58:51 AM
so the unit is finished, but the left channel distorts in the bass, when in compression mode.

also, can someone tell me what the H+ is supposed to do? the one located between the two ground pins left of the psu sections.

otherwise the unit works fine, except for some excess hum on the right.

sounds great, and thanks again for the project!

also a nice christmas present for myself :)


[edit]

I switched the tubes, but that didn't help to remove distortion. could it be the vactrols? all other values are the same in the two channels.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rob_gould on December 26, 2009, 12:59:21 PM

also, can someone tell me what the H+ is supposed to do? the one located between the two ground pins left of the psu sections.
[edit]


I'm not at home so can't check mine but I presume this is the positive heater supply for the tubes?

Could be wrong though...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on December 26, 2009, 04:49:52 PM
I´m quite close on finishing my D-AOC. Speaking of the heaters reg, i think using the LM350 (on TO3 package) is a good idea. I´m using a LM350T mounted offboard on a quite big heatsink and i´m having thermal shutdown after 15 minutes. Probably, i got a fake 350, don´t know. Maybe i should get a 338K (which maybe is a fake rebranded 350 !!!)

Is there any chance of tube damage with the tubes working at full plate voltage if the heater supply dies after a while ?

I still have to wire the baby, but all voltages are quite fine. I have 247 v after the big resistors (had to change the 47r for a 20r).

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on January 03, 2010, 03:00:19 PM
Quote
so the unit is finished, but the left channel distorts in the bass, when in compression mode.

also, can someone tell me what the H+ is supposed to do? the one located between the two ground pins left of the psu sections.

otherwise the unit works fine, except for some excess hum on the right.

sounds great, and thanks again for the project!

also a nice christmas present for myself Smiley


[edit]

I switched the tubes, but that didn't help to remove distortion. could it be the vactrols? all other values are the same in the two channels.

Little help please...

So i soldered out vactrols (kubi version - 2 on each channel), and now only the right channel compresses. the left one does not with one vactrol, only with two.

how can that be?! i switched vactrols again and again - same problem.

compression is more equal with only one vactrol on the right and two on the left, than with two on each side.

also, when i compress on the right side, the neon lamp gets dimmer... but not on the left (of course with 2 vactrols, in compression).
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on January 03, 2010, 04:02:16 PM
Mischa, did you "reverse" one set of vactrols ?
So one set with "printed side up" and one on top with printed side down ??

MM.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on January 03, 2010, 04:04:10 PM
Quote
Little help please...
So i soldered out vactrols (kubi version - 2 on each channel), and now only the right channel compresses. the left one does not with one vactrol, only with two.
how can that be?!


the remaining vactrol on the left side is faulty ?? when you wrote that you switched the vactrols again and again its not clear if you were soldering in and out the same vactrols in the same spots or not.
if one of the two vactrols is good on the left side i believe the unit will compress.    just not in  full wave mode (ala Kubi mod)


"compression is more equal with only one vactrol on the right and two on the left, than with two on each side."
if im right this would be expected as both sides are compressing only 1/2 of the audio signal.
if you've thought of this and tested to isolate which vactrol is bad on the left side.my apologies. i was uncertain what you meant by switched the vactrols out. good luck. you'll like this unit when it is running with no bugs

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on January 03, 2010, 06:27:32 PM
MM, yes, i had them like kubi wanted, one facing up and one down. Also, Musikding delivered two pairs with different numbers: one pair has 511 written on it and the other one 636. must be the batch number.

sorry for the unclarity. what i meant was i switched the remaining vactrol for another one. So i tried at least two different single vactrols on the left spot. The result with only one vactrol on each channel was lacking compression on one channel, no matter what vactrol i used on that channel.

I just did a diode test: 3 vactrols show values of 510-560 on the multimeter. My mulitmeter shows a 1 in standby, which remains when checking those 3 vactrols, so it in fact displays 1510 to 1560. Checking the 4th vactrol, the 1 disappears, so it only shows a value of 550. this seems to be the problem. with two vactrols soldered in on each channel, on one i have 1170, and on the other 1560. Gonna call Musikding tomorrow.

i'll double-check this again. i already have a solder-massacre going on at those points... (the problem however is not with the broken solder points, as i always checked the traces up to the next point).

seavote, are you saying that one channel influences the other? i assumed they are autonomous.

thank you guys a lot for the input!! that kept me going. much appreciated!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on January 03, 2010, 10:31:34 PM
"seavote, are you saying that one channel influences the other? i assumed they are autonomous"
no i was not saying the channels would influence one another. i was saing if you had one vactrol on the right channel and two on the left. and one vactrol on the left side was faulty the unit would process(compress) only 1/2 the audio signal on both channels and give a balanced left-right signal.since you reported this was the case with your DAOC i was using it to support my theory.but unfortunetly i was incorrect
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on January 09, 2010, 09:50:11 PM
vactrol changed -> all is good.

happy compressing   ;)

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on January 10, 2010, 03:27:43 AM
MM, yes, i had them like kubi wanted, one facing up and one down. Also, Musikding delivered two pairs with different numbers: one pair has 511 written on it and the other one 636. must be the batch number.

\

I think that it has something to do with the batch numbers, i had something quite similar with mine. Both channels worked fime but it had quite a big difference in left/right in character. I had different batch numbers as well.
Replaced them with new ones and it's great now!
Have to check the wrong batch numbers if i still have 'm..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mischa on January 10, 2010, 03:40:56 PM
Quote
...I think that it has something to do with the batch numbers...

in my case it had not much to do with the batches, because one vactrol from batch # 636 had a grossly different value than the other one from the same batch... got a third from the same batch from musikding for free, and it had pretty much the same value as the 636-batches as well as the 511-batches.

all this referring to the diode test with my dmm... don't know which other differences are possible with those parts.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on January 28, 2010, 02:29:30 PM
Not really sure were to put that meter resistor, does it matter if its in series with - or +?  :-[
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 28, 2010, 02:32:26 PM
putting it at + works fine
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on January 28, 2010, 03:21:49 PM
Thanks! this is what i did, but i get some weird behaviour, will take some measurments tomorrow in the studio.

But it sounds Damn good! :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Matthew Jacobs on February 11, 2010, 11:07:33 AM
Anyone got some NE2 to sell me?

Or any 1N5371?

Can't find a source in UK or in Europe for that matter. And ordering from the US was gonna cost me $34 for components that cost $2.90

Or does anyone have a UK / Europe source for these babies?

I'm also thinking of using Sowter Transformers, and these + the NE2 / 1N5371 are the only components missing for my build.

Can anybody help?

JD

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 11, 2010, 11:33:06 AM
http://www.conrad.de/goto.php?artikel=725200
this is what I use
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Matthew Jacobs on February 11, 2010, 12:49:19 PM
Thanks bro!

Checked everywhere else but forgot about Conrad.

Sorry if this was already in the thread somewhere. MartyMart, maybe you can update your BOM as it was really helpful for me and I'm sure it will help others in the UK / Europe.

Cheers

J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Matthew Jacobs on February 12, 2010, 08:57:02 PM
I've decided to go with Sowter 4383 transformers on the input and outputs. First time I'm gonna use Sowter.... We'll how it goes....

J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on February 15, 2010, 08:23:54 AM
Hi

      I'll be building DAOC (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/D-AOC_Schematic.pdf)  and  was thinking of  switchable vactrols, (Also I'll go for a full wave rect. as in Kubi advanced version (http://audio.kubarth.com/daoc) rather than having leds in parallel & anti parallel). Idea is to have VTL5C4/2 (http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/Datasheets/DTS_vtl5c42B.pdf)  and VTL5C3/2 (http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/Datasheets/DTS_vtl5c2232.pdf)  which is much faster, switchable from the front panel. Now I'm not sure is it ok to keep resistor side in parallel of all  vactrols (4vactrols in total in parallel) at all times hard wired, and to switch only the led part(s), or shall i switch between vactrol "sets", both, the resistor and the led part. Hope this sounds clear.

Thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 15, 2010, 08:28:51 AM
interesting question :)
there is the 3rd option of only switching the resistor side ...

however, I think switching only one side will affect the threshold point.
could be good, could be bad, depending on your needs  :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on February 15, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
I remeber from the Kubi's thread (now missing) that having two optocuplers in anti parallel with one being switched off (basic DAOC opto. config, resistor side) is no problem, but i'm not sure what is going to happen when having 4 in parallel at all times with one "set" switched off.
I dont mind if  I have to readjust the threshold when switching from one type of
vactrols to another.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 15, 2010, 09:27:43 AM
just looked at the datasheet you posted.
the VTL5C3/2 is much faster, but the other values are very different too :-\
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on February 15, 2010, 09:56:04 AM
yes, but mine main concern is OFF RESISTANCE. For everything else VTL5C3/2 just have same/similar/ "more range" values. I might be wrong tho. It was used
as opto element in L2 builds, so I hope i'm not missing it all together ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on February 15, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
and,  hey, you did excellent job on the PCB, both electro. and  visual. quietest tube piece that I've made.thank you very much.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 15, 2010, 11:10:50 AM
thank you Sir. don't forget to post pics :) :) :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pucho812 on March 16, 2010, 12:25:48 AM
Need to post my  NYD edition daoc. I posted the front panel which didn't make the grade on page one :(  It may be ugly but she is all mine. I have it up and running. Much to my surprise It started working the first time I ran audio which is rare when I DIY. This was before I adjusted the heaters to the 6.3 spec.  However before the adjustment it did some dodgy things it no longer is doing. I still need to wire up the link switch and do the bypass on each channel. but man this thing sounds really good.

I would like to thank the academy, my manager,.....

No seriously I wanna thank analag  and silent arts for the project.  and a shout to miko for his hand in me having  this project

once I have those switches in I will post the insides.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 16, 2010, 04:21:24 AM
Need to post my  NYD edition daoc. I posted the front panel which didn't make the grade on page one :( 
fixed ;D ;D ;D
with some more fotos incl. the insight you will get your own banner :D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Matthew Jacobs on March 16, 2010, 07:28:55 PM
I've decided to go with Sowter 4383 transformers on the input and outputs. First time I'm gonna use Sowter.... We'll how it goes....

J

My Sowters arrived yesterday. I am all set and ready to get this baby up a running before the weekend.

I am using the 4383 (mic/line - input/output - 600/10K)
http://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/4383.htm (http://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/4383.htm)

Can anyone tell me what the black lead does? And how should I hook it up? To earth?

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk290/dziejdii/DIY/Picture1-1.png)

Thanks for your time.

J
 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pucho812 on March 16, 2010, 11:24:39 PM
Need to post my  NYD edition daoc. I posted the front panel which didn't make the grade on page one :(  
fixed ;D ;D ;D
with some more photos incl. the insight you will get your own banner :D

I got some photos I will upload them when I get home. My own banner awesome.  If I am ever in Germany Will have to get you a beer or 4 and a signed photo of David Hasselhoff.


mathew I would skip the black should work just fine.  but black would connect to ground or that's how it looks on any jensen transformer schematic.


edit: attached is a photo. I did not put in the bypass boards as they went into another project but I did do a hardwired bypass.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 17, 2010, 04:37:28 AM
... If I am ever in Germany Will have to get you a beer or 4 and a signed photo of David Hasselhoff.
we can skip David but the beer is fine :D

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-pucho812.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pucho812 on March 17, 2010, 06:58:59 AM
you sure? I hear he is quite big over there? well cool I have a banner :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on March 21, 2010, 05:59:38 AM
This is mine  ;D

thanks to analag, volker and frank!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 21, 2010, 06:10:19 AM
WOW, what a beauty !!!

please some more pics ;D
one flat from the front to put it in the rack at page 1,
some more shots for doing your banner ;D ;D ;D ;D

(and shorten that long PSU Xformer screw, it is dangerous if it touches the top of the case ...)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on March 21, 2010, 06:23:57 AM
thanks :) the screw doesn't touch the top, that just looks like.

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6884/daocbehr.jpg)

(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3986/daoc4briz.jpg)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4168/cimg1999q.jpg)

(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/272/cimg1995.jpg)

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/385/doac5briz.jpg)

im a poor fotographer...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 21, 2010, 07:18:20 AM
 ;)
(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Brizco.gif)

... and added to the huge D-AOC Rack :D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 21, 2010, 07:35:42 AM
mmm, tasty.

I really should finish mine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on March 25, 2010, 09:27:22 AM
After a few days using the d-aoc in the "studio" i really want to say it once again: THANKS!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: fallout on March 25, 2010, 09:35:02 AM
Another cool looking project I missed out on.. Are there any plans to do another run of PCBs for this?

-jay
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mjproc on March 25, 2010, 09:45:29 AM
thanks :) the screw doesn't touch the top, that just looks like.
...
im a poor fotographer...

Is that a Deathbringer Tube Composer case?  (bet this is a bit better.....)

If it is..... how did you "flatten" the bottom of the case (under the pcb)?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Brizco on March 25, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
thanks :) the screw doesn't touch the top, that just looks like.
...
im a poor fotographer...

Is that a Deathbringer Tube Composer case?  (bet this is a bit better.....)

If it is..... how did you "flatten" the bottom of the case (under the pcb)?

i did not flatten it, it just works without flattening anything. i really can recommend to buy these behringer units used for cheap.
the power trafo is useable for other projects too, the cases are good.

and yes, the sound quality is better...:D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pucho812 on March 25, 2010, 01:17:47 PM
I wonder, will behringer try and clone a daoc in the behringer case? hmmmmm
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 25, 2010, 01:31:25 PM
I wonder, will behringer try and clone a daoc in the behringer case? hmmmmm
Uli is welcome to buy us out ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on March 26, 2010, 12:45:21 PM
a couple of months a go i ordered a n ew schaeffer panel for my d-aoc, didn't show of yet, now it;s the time.  ;D

(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/daoc.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on March 26, 2010, 12:55:02 PM
Nice one!

....but was it not D-OAC??  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on March 26, 2010, 02:51:50 PM
Nice one!

....but was it not D-OAC??  ;D

Thanks!

yes... it was a d-oac but now i upgraded it to a d-aoc and it sounds way better now!  ;D (or is that because of the lundahl input maybe?)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on April 06, 2010, 12:31:06 PM
I am FINALLY putting a BOM together for this beast and I have a question-

 Is LM338 a sub for LM350? I can get it in T0-3 and alleviate the heater problem. It looks like it's straight out of the datasheet 'regulator with protection diodes'

I am also thinking about adding a single grounded cathode stage with a mic input with fixed gain, like a 1/2 bottle, and keeping a separate line input stock. Good fun.

Thanks all.




 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on April 06, 2010, 08:35:00 PM
I am FINALLY putting a BOM together for this beast and I have a question-

 Is LM338 a sub for LM350? I can get it in T0-3 and alleviate the heater problem. It looks like it's straight out of the datasheet 'regulator with protection diodes'
 

That´s what i used. Should be fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on April 07, 2010, 09:43:34 AM
Ok, I'm back to installing my bypass boards...................Oh dear............
I'd left them out as I seemed to have no luck the first time, with them at all.

The problem is that when I have them all hooked up, the 24v shorts out.
The 24v is working fine, and tests well on the mutimeter, without boards attached. I've even used it to power up some lights no problem, so I know it works.

As soon as bypass boards are attached, down goes the 24v..................

I've checked the boards, and it seems to be making contact at pins 1 & 16 of the relay. Testing with the multimeter shows they are connecting somehow. I've check every possible option for a bad solder, or shorting, with nothing..........

It seems like the connection is inside the relay between pins 1 & 16, which also means 24v & 0v are in direct contact with each other.
Are my relays broken?  ??? It does it on both boards.

I had a look at the omron datasheet. http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v2.pdf (http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v2.pdf)
It looks like pins 1 & 16 are connected in the diagram. I'm confused........
The board itself looks very easy to wire up, but I just can't get around whatever is connecting 24v & 0v together.

Have I damaged my relays somehow? Is that even possible???

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 07, 2010, 10:11:54 AM
Sorry
where I can find PCB?
Thanks....
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on April 07, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Ok, I'm back to installing my bypass boards...................Oh dear............
I'd left them out as I seemed to have no luck the first time, with them at all.

The problem is that when I have them all hooked up, the 24v shorts out.
The 24v is working fine, and tests well on the mutimeter, without boards attached. I've even used it to power up some lights no problem, so I know it works.

As soon as bypass boards are attached, down goes the 24v..................

I've checked the boards, and it seems to be making contact at pins 1 & 16 of the relay. Testing with the multimeter shows they are connecting somehow. I've check every possible option for a bad solder, or shorting, with nothing..........

It seems like the connection is inside the relay between pins 1 & 16, which also means 24v & 0v are in direct contact with each other.
Are my relays broken?  ??? It does it on both boards.

I had a look at the omron datasheet. http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v2.pdf (http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v2.pdf)
It looks like pins 1 & 16 are connected in the diagram. I'm confused........
The board itself looks very easy to wire up, but I just can't get around whatever is connecting 24v & 0v together.

Have I damaged my relays somehow? Is that even possible???



Maybe the diodes are in reverse?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 07, 2010, 10:38:35 AM
Maybe the diodes are in reverse?
most possible. you don't have to exchange / reverse them.
make sure both diodes have the black ring faced to the same side.
the positive switching voltage goes to that side.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 07, 2010, 10:39:41 AM
Sorry
where I can find PCB?
Thanks....
contact me with your location (and while there put it in your profile too)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on April 07, 2010, 01:07:15 PM
So after 2 nice months with this beauty its over.

I forgot to turn it off during easter, came back to the studio on Tuesday and found the meters to be dead and the unit cold and the fuse somewhat darker, but not dead.

Opened it up and saw that the R1 is burned and that the legs of the TL783 a little bit darker than usual.

Tubes light up but not the neons (NE2).

Didn't measure any voltages yet but did some quick beeping to see if anything shorted to ground. Everything looks fine, except one thing:

The middle leg of the LM350 connects to ground, and not via the heatsink but via the pcb. This shouldn't be right?

The thing has been working fine before this, dont know why this happened, maybe a power surge during the weekend ?

Any help is much appreciated!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on April 07, 2010, 06:47:34 PM
Relays FIXED!!!!!  ;D ;D

It was the fault of the diodes, but not because they were in the wrong way round. I made sure I double checked that many times before firing things up.

I took the diodes off the board to check if the relay was making the connection. No connection through relay, so that eliminated that part.
So I tested the diodes on their own, and they were connecting like a bare piece of wire!!  :o

So I must've had some dogdy diodes. A bad batch maybe? I put some new ones in, and now the relay boards work perfectly. 8)

I don't understand how a diode can go bad, let alone four of them.......................
Anyway, problem solved, finally!!

Now, can I still light my LEDs off the 24v? Is there enough ampage to do that?
Where is everyone taking power for lighting from in their DAOCs?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kazper on April 08, 2010, 11:28:12 PM
So after 2 nice months with this beauty its over.

I forgot to turn it off during easter, came back to the studio on Tuesday and found the meters to be dead and the unit cold and the fuse somewhat darker, but not dead.

Opened it up and saw that the R1 is burned and that the legs of the TL783 a little bit darker than usual.

Tubes light up but not the neons (NE2).

Didn't measure any voltages yet but did some quick beeping to see if anything shorted to ground. Everything looks fine, except one thing:

The middle leg of the LM350 connects to ground, and not via the heatsink but via the pcb. This shouldn't be right?

The thing has been working fine before this, dont know why this happened, maybe a power surge during the weekend ?

Any help is much appreciated!

Middle pin is your voltage out which feeds an output reference circuit, couple capacitors and a few tubes heaters.... Those heaters are fairly close to a dead short to ground themselves. Pull all the tubes and try it again... if you don't have a tube glow I'd pull the LM305 and check the C8/C9 capacitors before I re stuffed a new LM350 onboard. I doubt it's the caps.

Do you have isolation to the heat sync and is it large enough?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on April 09, 2010, 06:41:13 AM
Thanks Kazper, yeah heatsink and isolation is enough. I pulled the tubes out and there is no short, i missed that completely, so im good with the heaters, tubes light up.

Will change R1 and see what happens, hopefully its just that.

My studio is in a apartment building, Could it be that if people left for the holidays and decreased the power consumption thus increasing the AC in my outlet?
Is that even possible?
I´ve seen it diff around 10 volts before. Im in Sweden and we have 230V.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 12, 2010, 07:06:15 AM
It's good for this project like main power?
Thanks
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/language/en/info/p1361_Toroidal-transformer-230V----270V--14V.html/XTCsid/8aff2f44acab66fc5e959b04635762d0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 12, 2010, 08:15:00 AM
It's good for this project like main power?
yes
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on April 12, 2010, 08:21:24 AM
[silent:arts]: Did you ever measure the slope with dual vactrols?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 12, 2010, 09:09:41 AM
searched my harddrive, and yes, I did:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF)

note: the label KUBI Mod is wrong. this is not his full mod, only the antiparallel vactrols
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 13, 2010, 02:21:06 PM
Where I can found Edcor transformer in Europe?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rob_gould on April 13, 2010, 02:29:31 PM
Where I can found Edcor transformer in Europe?
Thanks

search the PM660 thread.  There was a bloke in Belgium who I think was called Tony dB who was selling them.

Can't remember any more details than that I am afraid - sorry

Edit : here you go : http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=107 :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on April 13, 2010, 03:05:29 PM
Where I can found Edcor transformer in Europe?
Thanks

I have some extras I might sell.  But I'm in US.  You could also buy direct from Edcor in US I suppose.  I might have more flexible shipping options than they might...  PM me if you're interested.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on April 13, 2010, 04:57:08 PM
HI All ,
I Finally post unit finished !  :D
Lundhall LL1540 as input and something called edcor as output ! :P
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3126/daoc.jpg)
i know i know next time i make engraved panel !

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5806/photo016k.jpg)

I wanted to know if someone can help me in the Vu meter GR balistic !
I ve change R126 as explain to 100K variable and i ve try to set the vu meter with compression but it seems its totally impossible to set really something linear . ( i got a resistance too at Vu metre Input as mod explain there )
i ve try different way and the best i ve found was to set - 5DB and the -10 DB to 0Vu  and readjust ... i finally got something that seems to be not Bad ...but not really linear in fact  ( after 12 db compression hard hard to see anything more )
So i wanted to Know if someone can explain a way to make it a real GR mode starting to 0Vu and going Down with compression   ( i ve some picture of daoc making it no ?? )
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 15, 2010, 07:53:05 AM
can anyone tell me how to order transformers from the  EDCOR site?
I tried to write the mail but no answers ....
What other low-cost transformer could use?
thanks ...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 15, 2010, 12:51:23 PM
I Finally post unit finished !  :D
nice ;D ;D ;D
we always like fotos of finished DIY :D

this one is yours:
(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-flight.gif)

for the meters, read SSLtechs LA2A calibration instruction.
the metering circuit is exactly the same.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on April 15, 2010, 03:27:45 PM
Does anyone know how much gain this beast has fully opened up?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 16, 2010, 08:02:53 AM
hello
anyone has an example of the front panel FPD?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: nashkato on April 17, 2010, 06:59:39 AM
finished my daoc yesterday , after desoldering the neutriks from the bypass pcb (stupid me , wrong side ) and replacing sifam directors 1mA with some other VU´s i had .
instead of 1n5371 i used 1n5372 cause i didn´t get them.

transformers :lundahl 1540 input , edcor 10k/600

still i´m a little worried about the heat on the high voltage 783 . i used to use quite bigger cooling on my G9´s . any long time experience with the silkscreened cooling? (250v , 0,1A secondary)

inside is still quite a mess , so just a front pic for now...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z141/nashkato/IMG_1620_2.jpg)

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on April 18, 2010, 06:37:14 AM
Thanks for the new picture. Seems kinda stupid to use a 600/15k input tranny with dual vactrols.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on April 22, 2010, 11:29:31 PM
Shameless selfserving bump.

I am looking at this circuit and I am thinking of adding a low gain mic input stage with a 12av7 in a grounded cathode configuration as well as having the 10K input so I can leave it as a fixed patch in Protools. I know most people would say to build it first stock, but I can never really do that. Since there is room on the power supply, (I am planning on using the T03 LM350 for the DC heaters) I figure this is a good place to experiment. So I'd like to know if my shot in the dark is near target or even necessary.

In simulation, I have a Grounded Cathode Amp. set to 21db gain w/o input step up, Ra is 2.5k, Rl is 100k, 100v B+ @ 9ma. With an output z of 1.8k, I plan on feeding it into the 10k:10k through a switch. With this and the compressor amps, I would think I could gain up a ribbon mic and and have light compression. I was also thinking that I might try and pick off some NFB after c102, maybe on a switch.

I figure I am going to have to experiment, but I want to get some feedback on my design considerations. Any help helps.

Thanks-

 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on April 27, 2010, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: [silent:arts

for the meters, read SSLtechs LA2A calibration instruction.
the metering circuit is exactly the same.

Hey Silents just a stupid question probably  , but why should i have to plug Meter + and - inverted from the pcb ?? ( i mean + pcb into - meter  and - to +)
That way i have something good in Vu meter up to 7db compression  and acting as a GR mode . :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 27, 2010, 12:04:31 PM
Hey Silents just a stupid question probably  , but why should i have to plug Meter + and - inverted from the pcb ?? ( i mean + pcb into - meter  and - to +)
That way i have something good in Vu meter up to 7db compression  and acting as a GR mode . :P
since I have never heard something like this before most likely your VU meters are miss labeled
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flight on April 28, 2010, 04:55:10 AM
Strange ,
I got them from JLM audio ...

Thanks for info Silents  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on April 28, 2010, 09:57:47 AM
Sorry for a stupid question....
D-AOC meter shows only GR?
There is a wiring guide ?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 28, 2010, 10:15:14 AM
Sorry for a stupid question....
D-AOC meter shows only GR?
There is a wiring guide ?
it shows what you want ...
it is DIY ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on May 03, 2010, 08:21:13 PM
Ciao
LM350T must be mounted off board?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on May 04, 2010, 01:41:35 AM
What are you talking about? Its clearly marked on the PCB.

Ciao
LM350T must be mounted off board?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on May 04, 2010, 05:30:26 AM
II saw that many have mounted with the heatsink off the card ....
is to prevent overheating?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 04, 2010, 06:05:32 AM
II saw that many have mounted with the heatsink off the card ....
is to prevent overheating?
Thanks
yes. mount it (important: insulated !!!) to the case is much better than the heatsink on the PCB.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on May 04, 2010, 06:56:00 AM
Thanks silent:arts
What do you mean by " insulated"?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 04, 2010, 07:03:23 AM
no electrical contact between the TO220 and the case.
http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/appNotes/AN101_TO220_Guidelines.pdf
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on May 05, 2010, 03:31:41 PM
Hey guys,

did some improvements on my D-AOC yesterday. Kubi mod etc.  The unit sounded great but I did not calibrate the meters yet. So I installed a 100k trimmer for R126 and R226 and followed the instuction posted earlier in this thread. Channel 2 is now working great. Meter tracking is a little off, but no problem for me.
But I couldn't get the first channel working right. Everytime I turn up the threshold pot the VU goes up, too. So I checked everything and found out that suddenly the NE2 lamp in ch 1 did not work. I thought that it could have something to do with the meter tracking, took out the board, soldered in a new NE2 and after powering up channel 1 did not compress any more. In and out amps are o.k. and sound great but no compression.
Checking the unit again I found out that the stereo-link wire from channel 1 got torn off the switch while soldering and maybe got contact to the power switch, which is right below the link switch in the purusha case... ;D I soldered the wire to the switch and tested again, but still no compression...

Any ideas??? Checking the pcb for a day and a half, my brain's empty now.

Benjamin
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: wolfgang on May 05, 2010, 04:56:18 PM
Quote
I found out that the stereo-link wire from channel 1 got torn off the switch while soldering and maybe got contact to the power switch, which is right below the link switch

Maybe the vactrol got damaged? I dont know how to test it properly but you could compare it with the working channel?

regards,
Wolfgang
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on May 06, 2010, 01:13:13 AM
I just put two new vactrols in my D-AOC, calibrated the meters again and voila...
My D-AOC works perfectly now and most of all sounds great!!!  ;D
I just tested it a bit on vocals and love it.
Meters tracking is good, btw.

Benjamin
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 11, 2010, 06:41:35 PM
Anybody done some drawings of the off-board-wiring?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on May 16, 2010, 05:01:44 PM
After a DIY break of more than a year I finally made it to put the longtime finished PCB in a case. Here´s some pictures from my DAOC on the bench while meter calibration. I replaced R126/226 with a 100k trimmer to get a better GR tracking. Some of Kubis mods are installed. Sidechain filter frequency is 200-something Hz. Input iron is Stancor/MCI 4:1 reversed, output is Edcor WSM. Tubes are Siemens/Telefunken, meters are NOS Philips. Unfortunately I could not yet listen to it. There´s some 2W resistors which I have to replace because they get very hot and are placed too close to caps. They will damage the caps if running for a longer time. Wiring is a mess, of course.

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_000_0357.JPG)


(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_000_0358.JPG)


Thanks to Analag, Volker, Kubi and Frank "NRGrecording" for making this happen.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 19, 2010, 09:23:15 AM
Jens, you know we need more and larger pics  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on May 19, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
Jens, you know we need more and larger pics  ;D ;D ;D
Yep...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 19, 2010, 11:06:44 AM
Anybody done some drawings of the off-board-wiring?

Cheers
Soren
?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on May 19, 2010, 11:47:09 AM
Anybody done some drawings of the off-board-wiring?

Cheers
Soren

There´s not much to draw up.
What are you wondering about?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 24, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
for jensenmann:

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-jensenmann.gif)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 27, 2010, 04:29:15 PM
Anybody done some drawings of the off-board-wiring?

Cheers
Soren

There´s not much to draw up.
What are you wondering about?
I can't figure out how the stereo switch is working?

@Volker
Do you have the layout for the Haufe trafo pcb you have in your unit? I have some 255/1 I want to use..

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on May 28, 2010, 07:50:18 AM
I can't figure out how the stereo switch is working?

Just connect the + pin of each channels stereo link pad.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 28, 2010, 06:24:31 PM
Of course... hehe.. stupid question.
How does it work? What does the stereo signal do to both units? How do you control the stereo unit?

Can I use any Lundahl for this project?
I have some LL1540 and some LL5402 laying around..

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on May 28, 2010, 06:59:57 PM
not certain so if im wrong someone correct me.
i believe the sidechain signals are combined and then sent to the vactrol. this way both sides recieve the same signal and compress equally.
the two pin molex confused me.       (-) remains unused
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 29, 2010, 04:36:08 AM
not certain so if im wrong someone correct me.
i believe the sidechain signals are combined and then sent to the vactrol. this way both sides recieve the same signal and compress equally.
absolutely correct

the two pin molex confused me.       (-) remains unused
there are no one pin molex available ;D
and I like to use shielded cables, and connected (-) to ground.

How do you control the stereo unit?
the controls of both sides influence the gain reduction in stereo mode.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 29, 2010, 04:43:25 AM
Thanks :D :D

@Volker
Do you have the layout for the Haufe trafo pcb you have in your unit? I have some 255/1 I want to use..

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 29, 2010, 04:56:04 AM
Do you have the layout for the Haufe trafo pcb you have in your unit? I have some 255/1 I want to use..
well, it is an original Neumann PCB, very easy. I can mail you a photo.
I thought of doing a run sometime, they are very handy.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 29, 2010, 05:04:26 AM
That would help me a lot... Thanks  ;) ;)

niehans (At-Zeichen) gmail (Punkt) com

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 30, 2010, 09:52:52 AM
Do you have the layout for the Haufe trafo pcb you have in your unit? I have some 255/1 I want to use..
well, it is an original Neumann PCB, very easy. I can mail you a photo.
I thought of doing a run sometime, they are very handy.
Thanks for the picture.. ;-)
I made a quick PCB layout. Is the wiring correct?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 30, 2010, 05:25:01 PM
Wiring is correct for the 255/1, but not for universal use.
make sure you have the M2.5 hole for screwing the transformer to the PCB in the middle.
personally I would connect it to ground or chassis too.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 31, 2010, 02:53:43 PM
Universal print?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 31, 2010, 03:57:35 PM
reverse 1 to 8 and we should be there.
Haufe Data Sheets are like the ones from Lundahl,
pinout is solder side.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on May 31, 2010, 04:22:33 PM
reverse 1 to 8 and we should be there.
Haufe Data Sheets are like the ones from Lundahl,
pinout is solder side.

I don't understand it. If I look from the bottom of the trafo it looks like this.

(http://mentol.dk/diy/upload/haufe%20255%20bottom.jpg)

and the pinout from the datasheet say this.

(http://mentol.dk/diy/upload/Haufe%20255%20pinout.jpg)

The red dot is shown like its on the pin1 but in reallity its on pin8.. ??? ??? ???
Or is it because its mirrored.
Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on June 03, 2010, 01:34:25 PM
?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 03, 2010, 02:08:04 PM
easiest way to find out: just measure it
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on June 03, 2010, 02:34:28 PM
Hello

I've been enjoying my DAOC for a few months and it is a superb compressor on almost everything i throw on it. I still have a question regarding the stereo link...Is there some way to adjust the stereo match as in the D-LA2A ? I'm using the DAOC all the time in dual mono (on stereo material) without any troubles and the matching and metering is great, but as soon as i link the channels, there's a mismatch of a few dB's (GR tracking remains accurate, tho).

Any ideas of where i can start looking ?

Also, i have a very very small difference between channels (0,6dB) without any compression, and i'm using rotary switches...which will be a good point to fine tweak the gain a bit to compensate ? (just for peace of mind)

I was looking at the schemo, and i was thinking, maybe i can tweak the 470k feedback resistors in the output (or input) stage to fine tune the gain ? or there's a better way? (the 49,9k grid resistors?)

Thanks so much !
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on June 04, 2010, 04:43:59 AM
easiest way to find out: just measure it
Of course.
I think this is the way..
(http://www.mentol.dk/diy/upload/Haufe-silk.jpg)(http://www.mentol.dk/diy/upload/Haufe-trace.jpg)

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: labak on June 12, 2010, 04:40:51 AM
Hi everybody!

Strange things happen to me on this project.

With no tube I have the Heater sets up at 6.3V => ok.

I put a tube, ECC81 or 82, to every sockets I've got 2,2V and it's the max I can have with the trimmer at max.

I put 2 tubes, I've got 0,4V and same as before.

I've put a TO3 Lm 338K but I rode in this thread that on Silva one it's OK.

Components value are ok.

So do you think if I rebuild the Heater PSU every things could change.

I've already redone my solder plug on all the tube's sockets.

So a bit of help is welcome.

Regards.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 12, 2010, 05:58:51 AM
Hi,
possible reasons: bad tubes, check the tube sockets from component side for solder blubs, check D13&14 for correct orientation, do the same for D 9-12 and also for C5,6,7,8, check the value of R5. Which power transformer do you use? It should deliver at least 9V 2,5A.
regards
Bernd   
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: labak on June 12, 2010, 06:14:12 AM
Ok I will Check.

The power transformer is the musikding's one.

Thanks Bernbrue.

Regards
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 15, 2010, 08:59:14 AM
sorry for a stupid question...
how can I  switch from GR to Vu?
thanks....
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Kingston on June 15, 2010, 09:37:13 AM
reverse 1 to 8 and we should be there.
Haufe Data Sheets are like the ones from Lundahl,
pinout is solder side.

whoopsidaisies there!  :o

Lundahl datasheet pinouts are always top view, viewed from component side.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 15, 2010, 12:34:36 PM
Lundahl datasheet pinouts are always top view, viewed from component side.
you are right ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on June 15, 2010, 07:27:32 PM
.. not all of them...

http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/7903.pdf

  I got caught with this one   ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 16, 2010, 02:35:58 AM
.. not all of them...

http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/7903.pdf

  I got caught with this one   ;D
;D ;D ;D
but at least Lars writes to the datasheet which side is shown.
there are other manufactures who don't ::)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 18, 2010, 09:32:56 AM
hello
I just finished my D-AOC
I send photos as soon as possible ...
only problem
I had to remove the Bypass PCB
when connected to something strange happened to me

sound like an HP filter
ideas?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 27, 2010, 06:58:55 AM
ciao
is possible to use a

Drip Opto T4B Cell in this project?
how i can connect?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 27, 2010, 07:37:11 AM
no, I would keep it for a Dual LA2a. Vactrols are recomended for the D-AOC. Moreover they are much cheaper than a Drip T4B.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 27, 2010, 09:37:01 AM
thanks Bernd!
Can someone explain how to connect the Bypass PCB?
I followed the forum but I am not entirely clear
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 27, 2010, 12:09:24 PM
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.80

look at the bottom of page 5. The 3pin molex are for audio input/output, the 2pin molex is for 5V or whatever your relays need.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on July 12, 2010, 03:17:10 PM
I posted this on some topic on "Studio A". I think it's worthwile to paste it here.

Anyone else running this baby on unbalanced inputs?

Quote

I made the transformerless inputs yesterday. When you connect them, the input trafo secondary is completely bypassed. Wow !

I like this comp so much more now. My slight mismatch between channels, was due to the Edcor inputs. I felt that my DAOC´s threshold was a bit too sensitive, but now, and due to the fact i´m going unbalanced instead 600:10K, i have a more manageable threshold range.

Also, i bypassed the 22u solen fast caps with .1 ERO MKP1840.

I don´t feel the need for the lundahls or whatever nice input trafo right now.

I think i´m leaving my DAOC this way. I´m keeping the edcors for balanced input, but, i think the unbalanced inputs are keepers. My cable runs are usually short.

Should i post this on the main DAOC thread ?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on July 17, 2010, 12:25:38 PM
Hello

I've been enjoying my DAOC for a few months and it is a superb compressor on almost everything i throw on it. I still have a question regarding the stereo link...Is there some way to adjust the stereo match as in the D-LA2A ? I'm using the DAOC all the time in dual mono (on stereo material) without any troubles and the matching and metering is great, but as soon as i link the channels, there's a mismatch of a few dB's (GR tracking remains accurate, tho).

Any ideas of where i can start looking ?

Also, i have a very very small difference between channels (0,6dB) without any compression, and i'm using rotary switches...which will be a good point to fine tweak the gain a bit to compensate ? (just for peace of mind)

I was looking at the schemo, and i was thinking, maybe i can tweak the 470k feedback resistors in the output (or input) stage to fine tune the gain ? or there's a better way? (the 49,9k grid resistors?)

Thanks so much !


I have the same stereotracking problem. I did swap many sidechain tubes, all the resistors in the SC are within 1%, measured levels over there are fine, so it seems that the only remaining source of trouble are the optos. The datasheet states a tolerance of 25%, yuk. Matching these would be pretty expensive and a labour of love. Too bad that I didn´t realize that earlier. Now I have built it as stereocomp but in that way it´s not usable for me. In dual mono everything´s fine, though. Now I have a useless stereolink button on the frontpanel that makes me angry every time I see it.  :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on July 17, 2010, 02:32:22 PM
Hello

I've been enjoying my DAOC for a few months and it is a superb compressor on almost everything i throw on it. I still have a question regarding the stereo link...Is there some way to adjust the stereo match as in the D-LA2A ? I'm using the DAOC all the time in dual mono (on stereo material) without any troubles and the matching and metering is great, but as soon as i link the channels, there's a mismatch of a few dB's (GR tracking remains accurate, tho).

Any ideas of where i can start looking ?

Also, i have a very very small difference between channels (0,6dB) without any compression, and i'm using rotary switches...which will be a good point to fine tweak the gain a bit to compensate ? (just for peace of mind)

I was looking at the schemo, and i was thinking, maybe i can tweak the 470k feedback resistors in the output (or input) stage to fine tune the gain ? or there's a better way? (the 49,9k grid resistors?)

Thanks so much !


I have the same stereotracking problem. I did swap many sidechain tubes, all the resistors in the SC are within 1%, measured levels over there are fine, so it seems that the only remaining source of trouble are the optos. The datasheet states a tolerance of 25%, yuk. Matching these would be pretty expensive and a labour of love. Too bad that I didn´t realize that earlier. Now I have built it as stereocomp but in that way it´s not usable for me. In dual mono everything´s fine, though. Now I have a useless stereolink button on the frontpanel that makes me angry every time I see it.  :P

But there must be some way of "stereo adjust" it like an LA2A, right ? not a word on this subject.

I just use it unlinked and tracking is great. I don´t think my optos are the problem.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on July 18, 2010, 05:44:58 AM
I have the same problem ...
the two  channels in stereo mode  behave differently ...
there is a way to calibrate in stereo?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on July 18, 2010, 07:11:14 AM
The only way to stereomatch these thingies is to stereomatch the optos. They have by far the worst tolerance spec of all parts in the sidechain (maybe the toobes, too, but not in my DAOC). I don´t see any other way to accomplish stereotracking. Other ideas?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on July 18, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
how stereomatch the optos?
Thanks...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dingo on July 19, 2010, 03:14:06 PM
hello there :)
I'm going to construct my first D-AOC and have some question on input and output transformers,
my plan is to use lundahl5402 for output  have two of them here!!
need to buy input tranny and my choice in lundahl1540
any suggestion on wiring those transformers?
thanks!! :D
dingo.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on July 23, 2010, 04:40:35 PM
Today i've opened my D-AOC looking for some answers.

First, my GR tracking is not as accurate as i thought. VU's are showing quite more of the actual measured GR, but that doesn't bothers me too much. Left is showing more GR than right. I can live with it.

Unlinked, both channels respond exactly the same. Linked, there's a couple dB's GR mismatch. I swapped the sidechain tubes, and found a pair that reduced that mismatch to only 1dB when linked. Unlinked remains perfect regardless of tube changed in the sidechain.

Now, to the questions. Which will be the most adequate way of trimming a bit the meter's sensivity, to make it less sensitive in this particular application ? trimmer in series will be OK ? i played with some resistors in paralell but not much change.

Thanks !

 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 24, 2010, 12:21:29 PM
Won't be able to start building the D-AOC before next year. Anyway, just a quick idea:

As the optos seem to have 25% tolerance (örps) and we don't want to buy 10 optos or so to find a close enough match, would putting a multi-turn trim across the opto's resistors (the ones near the input) make sense to match their range?


I posted this on some topic on "Studio A". I think it's worthwile to paste it here.
Anyone else running this baby on unbalanced inputs?
Quote
I made the transformerless inputs yesterday. When you connect them, the input trafo secondary is completely bypassed. Wow !

I like this comp so much more now. My slight mismatch between channels, was due to the Edcor inputs.
(abridged)

Sounds good. Does that mean simply bridging the transformers or is there an input buffer involved? If so, what does it look like? Maybe it could even be switchable?

s
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on July 25, 2010, 06:54:17 AM
Hey guys!
Just looking for approval on one point:
There's no reason it should work inproperly without the meter connected right?
I'm thinking of putting only one meter and a switch between channels, or maybe no meter at all since they track strangely...
Am I thinking correctly?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 25, 2010, 09:28:20 AM
the circuit willwork without the meter connected. i havent looked at the schematic in a long time, but check to see if you need to jumper the circuit somewhere.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 25, 2010, 09:31:22 AM
no meter needed, just leave it out.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 26, 2010, 09:37:50 AM
Quoting myself here, good lord :)

As the optos seem to have 25% tolerance (örps) and we don't want to buy 10 optos or so to find a close enough match, would putting a multi-turn trim across the opto's resistors (the ones near the input) make sense to match their range?

On second thoughts I think that matching optos involves more than total resistance, namely attack and recovery time curves. Maybe it's more of an academic than a real-life problem, but I could easily imagine myself running and comparing test signals for an entire week only to decide in the end that perhaps it's best to feed a dual-channel unit with MS rather than LR signals...

Still, a question to all who built a D-AOC: How many Vactrols did you compare to find a pair that is 'satisfactory'?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on July 26, 2010, 12:44:21 PM

Sounds good. Does that mean simply bridging the transformers or is there an input buffer involved? If so, what does it look like? Maybe it could even be switchable?

s


No input buffer. The 1/4 jacks i used for unbal input break the signal from the trafo´s secondary and feed it directly onto the pcb, unbalanced.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 27, 2010, 08:36:50 PM
Unbalanced input without buffer directly into PCB. Thank you very much, I will definitely try that too :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on July 28, 2010, 02:09:34 PM
Increase Cx04 from 100nF to whatever you can maximally fit on the PCB. 220nF was the biggest cap I could insert. I wish there was enough space for 1uF, but real estate was too precious on the PCBs and Volker was too stingy with the real estate. Anyway, the diode within the vactrol is a variable resistor which forms a CR highpass filter with that cap. If you increase the cap, the filter frequency lowers and the compressor becomes more sensitive to lower frequencies. Yes, I know everybody wants a highpass switch for side chains like the GSSL's, but you don't need it here, 100nF is too small for many applications. Even worse: If you push the compressor harder, more current goes though the diodes and the resistance lowers so that less compression happens - quite inept, isn't it?

Don't worry, if you double the vactrols the resistance from two parallel diodes does not become lower, because only one diode conducts at a time, thus the other diode becomes an infinitive resistance for the period of a half signal wave (apart from the leakage current).


1. Does it mean that if I install 2 vactrols more I don't need to increase the Cx04?

2. Do I need to compare vactrols?

3. Can I use the Lundahl LL5402 as output trafo?

Cheers
Søren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on August 01, 2010, 06:04:14 AM
? ??? ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on August 01, 2010, 12:30:54 PM
"3) (Forrsell only and unconfirmed, as it seems:) someone suggested raising the 4.99k and 1k resistors (series and shunt) to 49k and 10k before the opto's resistor (here in series, see schamatic) to reduce difference between individual optos. ."


Ciao Silent:art
do you think can help me to better match the opto?
can create problems forD-AOC?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 02, 2010, 04:33:46 AM
Gentlemen,

note: I'm neither the designer of the circuit nor the designer of the mods, I only did the PCB.
but I'm sure the designer of the circuit (analag) and who did the mods (kubi) know what they do ;D

Quote
1. Does it mean that if I install 2 vactrols more I don't need to increase the Cx04?
loads of people didn't increase Cx04 and are happy

Quote
2. Do I need to compare vactrols?
good luck :D

Quote
3. Can I use the Lundahl LL5402 as output trafo?
haven't tried one, but why not?

Quote
"3) (Forrsell only and unconfirmed, as it seems:) someone suggested raising the 4.99k and 1k resistors (series and shunt) to 49k and 10k before the opto's resistor (here in series, see schamatic) to reduce difference between individual optos. ."


Ciao Silent:art
do you think can help me to better match the opto?
can create problems forD-AOC?
I would leave all resistors like they are. even kubi didn't any change there  :o

optos and stereo tracking (this is LA2A related, but it is opto too):
Quote from: hejsan
Have you checked if the matching is satisfactory? Did you somehow match the t4b's?
I didn't match the T4b's (since I only have two of them :green: )
but I matched all resistors for both channels.
the tracking is fine - oddly better without the stereo link switched in :? , but still within 1dB.
the gain reduction Metering doesn't track fine, but who cares ...

hope this helps ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dingo on August 04, 2010, 11:36:34 AM
Hello!
here some picture my D-AOC finished!!
with lundahl 5402  on input and output like gyraf pultec  configuration
meters from old pioneer rt1100 modified with orange led and channel led
sounds great  !!!!!   meters not tracking well on gain reduction
on input a little  v-u meter buffer like jlm
little fan for air flow  :D :D

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/ingosch/gear%20studio/FRONT.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/ingosch/gear%20studio/INTERNAL.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/ingosch/gear%20studio/meters.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/ingosch/gear%20studio/internal2.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/ingosch/gear%20studio/PANEL.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on August 04, 2010, 10:11:55 PM
Great!!!!
Soft - Hard ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dingo on August 05, 2010, 07:01:55 AM
ciao il Fungo!!
yes soft compression with valtec +blu led  no more 3 db gain reduction full open
hard comp. with valtec+blu led+valtec reverse more than 20db gain reduction full open
un saluto!
dingo.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 05, 2010, 08:06:30 AM
Hey, thanks for the pics. Looks great :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on August 05, 2010, 08:09:12 AM
thaks Dingo grazie!!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on August 07, 2010, 08:28:47 AM
Thanks for the answers...  ;) ;)

@dingo

Did you wire the Output trafo in 2:1 ratio? Should it be 4:1 instead?

Cheers
Søren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dingo on August 07, 2010, 10:27:39 AM
hello SOEREN!

I have wired the in and out trafo like in the gyraf pulteq eq
sound great  no bass lost
i am not using r 10k on input trafo and 2,2k on out trafo for the moment
i am not shure how effective  they are?
maybe someone can help  on   the resistors utility ?
dingo. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on August 07, 2010, 05:48:25 PM
hello SOEREN!

I have wired the in and out trafo like in the gyraf pulteq eq
sound great  no bass lost
i am not using r 10k on input trafo and 2,2k on out trafo for the moment
i am not shure how effective  they are?
maybe someone can help  on   the resistors utility ?
dingo. :)

The resistors are used to fix the load on the opposite side of the transfo... The 10k fix a minimum load of 600 (if wired 1:4) on the input. As you may plug your gear to a 10k load, the 2k2 fix the proper load on the tube side. If not the reflected load of the tube would be 40k. It's not a real problem but some tube arrangements are sensible to that kind of load changes...
I hope I'm clear because I'm really tired  :-\.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 08, 2010, 05:29:23 AM
dingo, very nice build - and I like your added features :)

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-dingo.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dingo on August 08, 2010, 06:23:26 AM
thank you!!!
really like the banner  :D

hello SOEREN!

I have wired the in and out trafo like in the gyraf pulteq eq
sound great  no bass lost
i am not using r 10k on input trafo and 2,2k on out trafo for the moment
i am not shure how effective  they are?
maybe someone can help  on   the resistors utility ?
dingo. :)

The resistors are used to fix the load on the opposite side of the transfo... The 10k fix a minimum load of 600 (if wired 1:4) on the input. As you may plug your gear to a 10k load, the 2k2 fix the proper load on the tube side. If not the reflected load of the tube would be 40k. It's not a real problem but some tube arrangements are sensible to that kind of load changes...
I hope I'm clear because I'm really tired  :-\.

thanks for the resistor info!!
i would try the resistors and check if there some difference on sound!! ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on August 08, 2010, 03:49:11 PM
hello SOEREN!

I have wired the in and out trafo like in the gyraf pulteq eq
sound great  no bass lost
i am not using r 10k on input trafo and 2,2k on out trafo for the moment
i am not shure how effective  they are?
maybe someone can help  on   the resistors utility ?
dingo. :)

The resistors are used to fix the load on the opposite side of the transfo... The 10k fix a minimum load of 600 (if wired 1:4) on the input. As you may plug your gear to a 10k load, the 2k2 fix the proper load on the tube side. If not the reflected load of the tube would be 40k. It's not a real problem but some tube arrangements are sensible to that kind of load changes...
I hope I'm clear because I'm really tired  :-\.

Where should the resistor be placed for the output trafo? Should I change a resistor on the board or is it something to add directly on the 5402 trafo?

Cheers
Søren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: lolo-m on August 08, 2010, 04:49:25 PM

Where should the resistor be placed for the output trafo? Should I change a resistor on the board or is it something to add directly on the 5402 trafo?

Cheers
Søren

For the output transfo there is 2 options :
10K on the tube side
OR
600 on the output side

But the designer didn't put any. I would bet it is worthless  ::)...

PS: The input doesn't need any resistor addition as it is already on the PCB .
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 15, 2010, 08:25:37 PM
Could someone confirm to a colorblind that the one with dual vactrols is the most sensitive curve in this plot?  :-\

http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MartyMart on August 17, 2010, 04:23:44 AM
Could someone confirm to a colorblind that the one with dual vactrols is the most sensitive curve in this plot?  :-\

http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF)

Kubi mod is indeed the lowest curve in the plot ( would be a dark green )

MM
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 17, 2010, 06:47:28 AM
Thanks! I thought it was some kind of brown :-\ Have problem with green, brown and red..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 17, 2010, 10:34:38 AM
Re matching of vactrols. Wouldn't that be rather easy if you set up a test jig with a couple different voltages and then just measure the resistance at each setting. This would not take attack/release time into account but will hopefully make for a lot better matc than 25% re diode current and photoresistor sensitivity. The downside is you have to buy lots of vactrols but on the other hand, they would be quite easy to sell here.

What do you think? I'll finish my compressor (have some minor adjustments) and see if i get lucky or not re stereo tracking. If not i'll try to match vactrols.

 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on August 17, 2010, 12:19:58 PM
I wonder if any sockets could be mounted on the PCB for the vactrols. A DAOC with a matching jig...

Maybe 2 SIP sockets with trimming?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on August 17, 2010, 01:17:30 PM
Regarding matching vactrols you should have a look at the datasheet. There are three interesting plots:
Uf of the LED needs to be matched for the same threshold (well, kind of threshold)
input current vs resistance is interesting for matching the slope of compression. Indeed, as suggested by flintan before, three measuring points should be enough for matching. The manufacturer offers three values in his datasheet, too, for comparing the characteristics of his different materials.
Measuring response time would be necessary to have the same time constants for both channels. Chances are good, that if you get vactrols from the same batch, the response is very similar. This would be the least important part of matching from my understanding.

good luck with all that. It´s an expensive sport to do all that.

dripelectronics did a lot of investigation in this direction but removed the most interesting parts of his posts because he started a business. Do a search for his t4b posts. CJ worked in the same direction even before Gregory, but his page is down and he is not very often here, not to say he disappeared from my radar without sending my V72s back - but that´s another story.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 18, 2010, 08:26:43 PM
Interesting. Wouldn't Uf variations also reflect in different output R curves? It would not be too big a deal to do a first run of Uf matching and then match the matching ones in regards of I -> R, and then out of those there's the response time.. Well, realize i have quite some to read on this before/if i'm digging in to it.. I'll finish and try my unit first and see, maybe it's good enough as is.

I also found this in the sheet:
Quote
Consult factory if closely controlled characteristics are required at low input currents.
  :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on August 19, 2010, 05:00:54 AM
For matching the optos Fred Forssell did wire a 500 Ohm trimmer in front of the vactrol-LED in his sidechain design. I just realized that by crosschecking the schematic. That could be done with the DAOC, too, by lifting one LED-leg of both vactrols (if you have the kubi-mod) and wire them in series with a trimmer.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on August 19, 2010, 10:05:33 AM
GREAT :D
Interesting!!!!
it does not matter which leg of the LED?
Thaks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 19, 2010, 10:21:41 AM
GREAT :D
Interesting!!!!
it does not matter which leg of the LED?
Thaks

My guess would be no, but rather lift the side that is not connected to ground.

I talked to Rowan at Banzai Music who said:

Quote
We can offer matched optocouplers. There is a service charge of EUR 5,00 per item on top of the normal product price. Let me know if you would like to order some and i will make the necessary arrangements for you.

Too bad most of us already bought unmatched vactrols..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on August 19, 2010, 12:24:38 PM
Thanks flintan
I also already bought several vactrol,
regarding my DAOC I noticed that when you just turned on the two channels are matched ...
After about 10 minutes no more ...
could be a valve problem and not Optos?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 25, 2010, 06:59:59 PM
Soon finished. One of my 6e1p had a dead heater so i'm waiting for a new one from russia.

The musikding transformer gives too high voltage (for B+) in my opinion. The regulator has some 100V to eat. After a while being powered for measuring etc it started eating fuses and i realized R4 had desoldered itself. R1 is also getting quite warm under these conditions. So anyone planning on using the musikding transformen, don't! Save it for something else and get one with 220V secondary instead.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on August 26, 2010, 05:38:40 AM

I talked to Rowan at Banzai Music who said:

Quote
We can offer matched optocouplers. There is a service charge of EUR 5,00 per item on top of the normal product price. Let me know if you would like to order some and i will make the necessary arrangements for you.

Who knows which parameter will be matched?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 26, 2010, 05:52:19 AM
I asked if they could match Uf, I vs out R and response time and this was the reply. But he did not say down to what tolerance and i guess we don't know how good it gets til someone try and report the results.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on August 26, 2010, 06:09:57 AM
flintan, your mono-meter design reminds me on another build...  ;)
Very good looking. IIRC I used the Musikding transformer, maybe I need to check the B+ again.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 26, 2010, 06:28:43 AM
Yes it is a bit inspired by your (awsome) build with the big compression knobs and single meter. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 26, 2010, 06:26:22 PM
I put a 1k resistor in series with the 250V AC (which is closer to 270V). It draws 47mA at idle so 1K=47V. Now it's closer to 220V and maybe a bit low on the DC side but this will do for now. It goes into the rack for a while before any more changes.

There's a tiny HF roll of by 1dB at 20kHz. I tried with the output pot+wire disconnected with a resistor+shortcut for max gain which gave a 1dB boost at 20kHz. So i guess the capacitance of my cable is eating 2dB at 20kHz. I use aluminum shielded wire with a capacitance of 140pF/m.

The meter tracking is good. Stereo tracking is ok. But as others i've observed that it's less consistent when stereo-linked. 1dB off at -7dB reduction.

Some more pictures (sorry about the poor quality, iphone):

(http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/20620101138211cf0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=20620101138211cf0)  (http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/116201011401576da.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=116201011401576da)

(http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/5f62010114319bdbb.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=5f62010114319bdbb)  (http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/b662010115255db0c.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=b662010115255db0c)

(http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/a3620101155216256.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=a3620101155216256)  (http://forumbilder.se/thumbs/7c6201011585286ee.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se/show.aspx?iid=7c6201011585286ee)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 27, 2010, 04:35:28 PM
very nice ;D

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-flintan.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on August 28, 2010, 06:24:35 AM
Hi there folks!
I just powered mine and the heater supply drops dead with the tubes in!
With no tubes i can adjust to 6,3V, and as soon as I put in the tubes, I got nothing left...

Regulator is a LM338k but I don't think it could be an issue (or could it?), Transformer secondary measures 9.97VAC.
With tubes, I get some adjustment range but I can't get the output higher than 1,18VDC.
Anyone has a clue? I might try with the recommended regulator, but datasheets seem to indicate that they are interchangable...
http://www.national.com/profile/snip.cgi/openDS=LM338
http://www.national.com/profile/snip.cgi/openDS=LM350
No tube glow for me!!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on August 28, 2010, 08:22:24 AM
 i would check the tubes first. make sure each tube has continuity from pin 4 to pin 5. if thats ok check the heater voltage trace for gaps or bad connections to the tube sockets.  good luck
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on August 28, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
Hi, thanks, I checked and they are all OK.
But I think it wouldn't matter because broken tube/trace or no tube at all is pretty much the same, so I ruled that out.
I started taking parts out of the Heater supply, found the trimpot to make my tester beep as if shorted which is wierd, I also didn't know electrolytic caps could make a continuity tester beep but it seems they do... So I guess I have a bunch of stuff to change.
If anyone has experience in this kin d of stuff... I've had regulators shut down because input voltage was too high (on gssl builds), but it doesn't seem to be the case here..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Michael Tibes on August 28, 2010, 02:38:34 PM
I also didn't know electrolytic caps could make a continuity tester beep but it seems they do...

You charge the cap with the meter, it will beep until the cap is charged - which can take a while with a big cap. ;)

Michael
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on August 28, 2010, 03:02:39 PM
My own daoc banner :) Thanks! And a big thanks for the great pcb's!

Capacitors do make you multimeter beep when they are charged or get charged by your mm. They also make resistance measuring in paralell behave strangely.

As long as there is no smoke or signs of things being really bad there's usually easier to track down the problem by measuring voltage with power on than by desoldering parts. They don't like being soldered in and out..

How does the voltages compare in the working psu (no tubes) to when tubes are in? What happens with only one tube in? Two, three etc?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on August 29, 2010, 04:54:34 AM
You charge the cap with the meter, it will beep until the cap is charged
Ah, that makes sense...

The psu works with no tubes in, I can adjust it to 6.3V, but as soon as I put tubes in, it drops to less than 1V. I tried with alll tubes, just two, anoher pair, etc. With 2 tubes it goes to something like 0.6V, 4 tubes makes it go around 0.3V.

I still took the caps out to test the pcb tracks and they seem to be fine. But there must be somehing that the tube connects the power supply to, that makes it shut down or something like that.

Is it possible that it happens because I have lm338 instead of lm350? I know lm350 needs a 3V offset between in and out but I couldn't find that info for the lm338. I don't see a reason why it would be different, but...who knows...

Thanks again guys
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 29, 2010, 07:55:48 AM
could you give us the specs of the PSU transformer ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on August 29, 2010, 09:11:44 AM
Sure:
2x115V 50/60Hz primary
-----------------------
250V 0.1A
24V 0.5A
9V 2.5A secondaries
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on September 01, 2010, 07:15:49 AM
I just got an LM350, I'll try it and post back, but I don't think it'll solve the problem...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 08, 2010, 12:14:18 PM
Ciao
is normal with no compression and with full input and output
I half Db difference ( L - R output)?
I measured the voltages and are identical for both channels with a difference of one volt at R105-R205
the difference may be caused by tubes or by transformers (Edcor in out)?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 10, 2010, 03:13:25 PM
Ciao
is normal with no compression and with full input and output
I half Db difference ( L - R output)?
I measured the voltages and are identical for both channels with a difference of one volt at R105-R205
the difference may be caused by tubes or by transformers (Edcor in out)?
Thanks



???????
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ChrioN on September 16, 2010, 03:04:56 AM
Ciao
is normal with no compression and with full input and output
I half Db difference ( L - R output)?
I measured the voltages and are identical for both channels with a difference of one volt at R105-R205
the difference may be caused by tubes or by transformers (Edcor in out)?
Thanks

Its normal if your input signal is low. Why turn the output knob all the way up?
Half a dB difference? This isn't a digital compressor. You should be fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 17, 2010, 02:06:47 PM
Thanks ChrioN
I think the difference between left and right could affect the compression ....
then my  stereo link problems dependent from optical cell !?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: detonator on September 18, 2010, 05:50:57 AM
BTW, can you really hear half a db of difference?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 18, 2010, 06:09:03 AM
No , the problem not is for half Db
but for stereo link ( different way of  compression for L-R)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 18, 2010, 07:00:18 AM
my unit tracks L/R better without the stereo link engaged.
however, I use it both ways, depending on the signal.

haven't tested it yet, but putting a little resistance in the stereo link could maybe help
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 18, 2010, 07:23:06 AM
my unit tracks L/R better without the stereo link engaged.
however, I use it both ways, depending on the signal.

haven't tested it yet, but putting a little resistance in the stereo link could maybe help


and if we put a multi turn trimmer instead fixed value?
2K can work?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 18, 2010, 07:52:20 AM
I put in 500ohm trimmers and now my unit is dead on accurate in linked mode.

Cheers.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 18, 2010, 11:08:32 AM
Thanks silent:arts - Eje2005

I added the 2K trimmer  (I had only this one) and now
-3 DB compression I have a difference on the two output channels of 10mV
Compressive 5db-20mV
10 db 50 mV
Good?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on September 18, 2010, 11:37:49 AM
my unit tracks L/R better without the stereo link engaged.
however, I use it both ways, depending on the signal.

haven't tested it yet, but putting a little resistance in the stereo link could maybe help

Could you elaborate on that ?

Mine is stereo-tracking almost perfect without the switch engaged, but with the switch...grrrr.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 18, 2010, 12:18:43 PM
I put my 500ohm trimmer on the led of the vactrol, anode side. Like the Forssell opto.

I calibrated with various tones and noise etc...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 18, 2010, 01:27:43 PM
ciao  Eje2005
You can post photos to see how you do it?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 18, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
ciao  Eje2005
You can post photos to see how you do it?
thanks

Its really simple, just lift the leg of the vactrol (led side) wich is closest to the tube.

Solder in a trimmer with the washer connected to the board and then the second pin to the vactrol, the last and third pin of the trimmer goes to ground, nearest ground could be cathode of vactrol led or stereolink minus.
Ciao
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 18, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
I've Kubi mod with 2 vactrol ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 18, 2010, 07:34:54 PM
I've Kubi mod with 2 vactrol ???

Ok, i removed my kubi mod. Too much for me.

But try the trimmers on the kubimod, Start with Anode on the first one then add a trimmer to the cathode on the second vactrol, if it dosent work switch the second trimmer to the anode instead.

Its a couple of minutes of work but all worth it.

Like silent:arts said, should also work with resistance on the stereo link. But i´m not sure on this.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mata_haze on September 19, 2010, 02:04:07 PM
HEllo,
I am working on my 2 DAOC and trying to decide what transformers to use.
I have a couple of UTC HA100X that I would like to use.
do you guys think I might be able to hook them up as output 600 to 10K output?
Apparently the output impedance of this specific trafo is 60K, maybe I could put a resistor in parallell to drop it?

 ??? ??? ???

Best,
Mattia.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: shabtek on September 19, 2010, 02:28:12 PM
Mata,  sell the ha100x get some nice 1:2 hi-z input iron.
...i'll trade you a pair of utc a-16 (Z=15k:60k ,20-20k) for 1 ha100x.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mata_haze on September 19, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
Mata,  sell the ha100x get some nice 1:2 hi-z input iron.



Are you serious?
 ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 20, 2010, 06:18:54 AM
sorry for maybe stupid question ...
there is much difference in compression using  4 vactrol
or 2 vactrol + 2 LED?
what do you think is the best configuration?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: shabtek on September 20, 2010, 07:09:59 AM
yes, that much step-up is not needed.
nice trafo though, arguably overpriced; I would love to have one.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on September 20, 2010, 08:00:57 PM
I've Kubi mod with 2 vactrol ???

Ok, i removed my kubi mod. Too much for me.

But try the trimmers on the kubimod, Start with Anode on the first one then add a trimmer to the cathode on the second vactrol, if it dosent work switch the second trimmer to the anode instead.

Its a couple of minutes of work but all worth it.

Like silent:arts said, should also work with resistance on the stereo link. But i´m not sure on this.

Me too...kubi mod and i really love it !

So, how should i do the resistance thing on the stereo link switch ? just stick a trimmer on either side of the switch, something like that ???

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 21, 2010, 06:18:57 AM
Silvas, you removed the kubi mod?

Dont know about the trimmer on the stereolink, could be worth a shot no?
If it doesnt work just lift the vactrols. Really simple.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on September 21, 2010, 08:50:15 PM
Silvas, you removed the kubi mod?

Dont know about the trimmer on the stereolink, could be worth a shot no?
If it doesnt work just lift the vactrols. Really simple.


Nope. I wont. I love kubi´s mod !
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 22, 2010, 04:29:45 AM
 ciao Silvas

I also love the Kuby mod ....
I tried to insert a trimmer on stereo link
I can improve things but not completely fix ...
I do not know if it makes sense to try two trimmer .... ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 22, 2010, 06:26:01 AM
ciao Silvas

I also love the Kuby mod ....
I tried to insert a trimmer on stereo link
I can improve things but not completely fix ...
I do not know if it makes sense to try two trimmer .... ???



Two trimmers on the stereolink makes no sense to me.
Did you try to put the trimmers on the anodes of the vactrols? In not, why? Works perfect here.

I had ~2dB difference between the channels, easy fix with the trimmers. I might try to go back with dual vactrols since i can easy lower the compression with the trimmers.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 22, 2010, 02:29:16 PM
sorry for the stupid question ...
How do I view compression or output level?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on September 22, 2010, 05:50:21 PM
Just hook it up to your DAW if you don't have measuring equipment.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 23, 2010, 06:49:57 AM
thanks fiftan
I want to see on the meter of the compressor ...
how?
 ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on September 23, 2010, 08:23:13 AM
I don't understand what you are asking. The GR meter will never show the actual gain reduction just a mirror of it that is hopefully close enough after you have calibtrated it. You have to do that using something that has a level meter and a signal generator. Adjust the meter to read 0. Insert a signal, for example -10dB, adjust in/out controls til you read -10dB coming back from the compressor with no compression. Turn up the treshold til you read for example -16dB. Adjust the meter to read -6dB. Readjust zero. Repeat on various gain reductions til you find a good compromise over the range of GR you expect to use your compressor.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 23, 2010, 08:35:15 AM
I'm sorry I do not write well in English

I want to do with the meter:
Gain reduction or output level
as any compressor and do not know how to mount the switch
and if you need to change ...
I hope I was clear
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on September 23, 2010, 08:54:22 AM
Ok, i see. I have magic eye tubes for output metering.

If it's a VU i guess you could just put a 4 pole 2(3) positions rotary (or whatever switch you want) with the meter at the "wiper" and the output on one connection and the GR on the other.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on September 23, 2010, 01:39:47 PM
ciao Silvas

I also love the Kuby mod ....
I tried to insert a trimmer on stereo link
I can improve things but not completely fix ...
I do not know if it makes sense to try two trimmer .... ???



Two trimmers on the stereolink makes no sense to me.
Did you try to put the trimmers on the anodes of the vactrols? In not, why? Works perfect here.

I had ~2dB difference between the channels, easy fix with the trimmers. I might try to go back with dual vactrols since i can easy lower the compression with the trimmers.


This will screw up my nice matching when unlinked ???

Do you mean one trimmer on each anode ? 4 trimmers using kubi mod ?

My temporary solution if i want to use the channels linked is to use it as a M-S compressor, inserting a matrix before and after the DAOC . i've used like this a couple times where i wanted the channels linked and worked great. The small channel mismatch wasn't a problem working like this.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Eje2005 on September 23, 2010, 02:34:09 PM
ciao Silvas

I also love the Kuby mod ....
I tried to insert a trimmer on stereo link
I can improve things but not completely fix ...
I do not know if it makes sense to try two trimmer .... ???



Two trimmers on the stereolink makes no sense to me.
Did you try to put the trimmers on the anodes of the vactrols? In not, why? Works perfect here.

I had ~2dB difference between the channels, easy fix with the trimmers. I might try to go back with dual vactrols since i can easy lower the compression with the trimmers.


This will screw up my nice matching when unlinked ???

Do you mean one trimmer on each anode ? 4 trimmers using kubi mod ?


Yes 4 trimmers, should work, i never tested it though, like i mentioned above. I will asap.

If you have nice matching unlinked, you can switch in the trimmers along with the stereolink.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on September 25, 2010, 10:19:26 AM
Anyone can tell which tubes are the most important for the sound for the D-AOC?
Which ones would be worth spending a little more money on?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 28, 2010, 05:40:07 AM
sorry does anyone know how to connect correctly true bypass relay board? ???

+ 24v to switch and after to the board
- To board
G on board to main ground
is that correct?

thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 28, 2010, 03:56:28 PM
 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 29, 2010, 04:02:59 AM
sorry does anyone know how to connect correctly true bypass relay board? ???

+ 24v to switch and after to the board
- To board
G on board to main ground
is that correct?

thanks

sounds fine. you can use the PoorMan wiring guide (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PM660/PoorMan-WiringGuide.pdf) for reference.
it doesn't matter if you switch the positive (red), negative (blue) or both wires.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 29, 2010, 01:28:15 PM
guys help ....
I have a strange problem
when I connect the + and - to relay board 24V  disappears
I have no problem if I connect only lamps vu meter to 24V
any ideas?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: wolfgang on September 29, 2010, 01:47:09 PM
maybe you connected the relay board at wrong polarity??
Try to swap + and at the relay board.

regards,
wolfgang
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 29, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
I have checked the polarity
The strange thing is that by measuring the continuity between the + and - on relay pcb I see are short ...
I double checked everything,
diodes could be dead?
how can I test the relay?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: wolfgang on September 29, 2010, 02:28:25 PM
Quote
The strange thing is that by measuring the continuity between the + and - on relay pcb I see are short ...

do you measure continuity in both directions? if yes, the diode is dead!!

i would install a new one.

regards,
Wolfgang
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 29, 2010, 07:46:00 PM
Thanks wolfgang
Bypass now works
but it is another problem ....
Now a channel compresses while the other does not!
The strange thing is that it works in stereo



2 input signals
2 channels work with compression

if I use use a single channel
1 does not compress
2 compresses

What can it be? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: wolfgang on September 30, 2010, 03:26:30 AM
Quote
2 input signals
2 channels work with compression

if I use use a single channel
1 does not compress
2 compresses


I dont understand you!

if you use a single channel only this one will compress! seems clear to me!

do you mean something different?

wolfgang
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 30, 2010, 06:05:11 AM
I'm sorry for my English ...
in stereo both channels compress
in a dual mono only one channel compress.... ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on September 30, 2010, 08:57:42 AM
 :D :D :D
Work!!!!!!

I found the problem ...
There was a short on the threshold pot!
Thanks wolfgang
Now I will try to calibrate

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on October 01, 2010, 05:00:16 AM
Guys I finished my DAOC
a question,
I used this unit:
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p1361_Toroidal-transformer-230V----250V--9V--24V.html
After a while the compressor is on the trsformatore warms a bit,
Is this normal?
someone has the same problem?
how can I fix it?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 01, 2010, 05:34:32 AM
now we want to see some pics ;D

the Musikding transformer works fine in many D-AOCs.
"warms a bit" doesn't sound like it gets hot, which is fine.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Patch on October 02, 2010, 10:01:16 AM
Hey Volker! great project:) is it still possible to get PCBs for this project? i want one badly!!!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 02, 2010, 11:58:54 AM
Hi Patrick,

no problem:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39570.0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on October 03, 2010, 08:38:26 AM
now we want to see some pics ;D

the Musikding transformer works fine in many D-AOCs.
"warms a bit" doesn't sound like it gets hot, which is fine.



Ciao and sorry for delay!!!!
This is my D-AOC
red parallel led for soft compression
blu antiparallel led for hard compression
500R multiiturn trimmer on vactrol for matching
and true bypass!!!!
Thanks to silent:arts , Kubi ,wolfgang and and all those who contributed to this great project
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on October 06, 2010, 10:12:36 AM
Back after new tests, I put a regular lm350 in and the heater came back to life, so that's good new, no need to try any fancy regulators.

EDIT: my voltages are correct.
It passes sound but there's no low end, has anyone experienced that? I'm using edcor iron with ratios as marked on the pcb...

EDIT: when exchanging transformaer to have 600:10k IN and 10k:10k OUT I get more bass but it's still not good. And the VU meter I use shows no gain reduction. The cd player I use to test is wired unbalanced.

EDIT as I go along: with the antiparallel LEDs it compresses ok, so i wasn't driving it hard enough like a lot of people when they first try it. So I guess it works fine but has no BASS...Zny idea before I try swapping transformers?

Almost there!
Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pablobolche on October 06, 2010, 01:58:40 PM
Hello
I would like if someone could point me to a DAOC complete BOM.. don-t need the digikey!mouser numbers just the BOM.

Thanx
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mac on October 06, 2010, 11:02:46 PM
How much variation on the supply voltage is there for the 9v heater circuit?

I am looking for a power trafo and found one that has Output Voltage (AC): 0-6.3V(1.2A) x2, 0-15V(1A), and 0-220V(100mA).

Just wondering if the AC heater feeds could be used to supply 12v (1.2A), as the LM350T datasheet states a max input - output differential of 35Vdc.
Will this make the reg work too hard? Is 1.2A too little current for the six tubes?

Mac


Oh.... and thinking that I should be able to make the 0 - 15v work instead of 24v on the relays, lamps etc.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on October 15, 2010, 12:43:18 PM
Hi there!
Turns out my loss of bass was due to the edcor output transformer... I'm running the outputs unbalanced now and it's working great. I don't know why it did that, I don't think I was loading it strangely... I'll probably leave it as it is.

I was wondering, since Kubi advised not to reduce C04, how could I introduce a highpass in that sidechain? I feel I could use it in case of extreme compression.
I feel it could be done around R110 or R114, but introducing a cap in between stages (R114) feels wrong in my uneducated mind.
Can anyone chime in on that point?

Thanks a lot to everyone, I'm really digging this unit, I'll post pictures when it's finished.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on October 16, 2010, 03:08:54 PM
sorry
I finished my DAOC and it works fine
I used all the Kubi mod  except the double vactrol
I noticed a strange thing
when I try to compress a voice or acoustic guitar I hear a slight distortion ....
adding the second vactrol can improve this problem?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on October 18, 2010, 09:44:06 AM
Hi there again, I'm in the process of tweaking a few things in my DAOC before I close the lid.

I decided to use series resistors with the HT secondary to avoid overheating the regulator.
I first tried 500R (1k//1k 10W) and it still got hot, I measured 247VAC before rectification.

I tried a bit more, 900R, 1,4k, it gets better but I afraid the raw AC might get too low for the regulator to work properly.
It gives me respectively:
_220VDC after R1, 218 after regulation and the neons light up like a candle/not frankly
_201VDC after R1, 198 after regulation and the neons don't light up
both are lower than the voltages posted on this thread.

Do you think it could be a problem for the regulator to work at these voltages?
What would the drawbacks be soundwise in the resulting lower B+ on the tubes?
With the highest resistance I get:
114 instead of 133
99 -----------109
171----------222
62------------62
188-----------243
compared to here:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/Voltages.jpg)

Any opinions? I'm flying blind here.
Thanks again everyone!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on October 18, 2010, 02:13:04 PM
ciao Silvas

I also love the Kuby mod ....
I tried to insert a trimmer on stereo link
I can improve things but not completely fix ...
I do not know if it makes sense to try two trimmer .... ???



Two trimmers on the stereolink makes no sense to me.
Did you try to put the trimmers on the anodes of the vactrols? In not, why? Works perfect here.

I had ~2dB difference between the channels, easy fix with the trimmers. I might try to go back with dual vactrols since i can easy lower the compression with the trimmers.


This will screw up my nice matching when unlinked ???

Do you mean one trimmer on each anode ? 4 trimmers using kubi mod ?

My temporary solution if i want to use the channels linked is to use it as a M-S compressor, inserting a matrix before and after the DAOC . i've used like this a couple times where i wanted the channels linked and worked great. The small channel mismatch wasn't a problem working like this.



I able to adjust the  Vactro in stereo !!!! ;D ;D ;D
trimmer 500-hom (anode) vactrol L and R
100-hom ( cathode) at antiphase vactrol
I first adjust vactrol 1 and 2
then adjust vactrol 3 and 4

I think it can work even with a  single trimmer ( only on L or R)

All adjustments should be made with stereo link added
Thanks Eje2005 for your suggestions!!!!
Sorry for my english....


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 19, 2010, 10:46:09 AM
How should I connect the Haufe 255/1 trafo for the input?
http://audio.kubarth.com/rundfunk/index.cgi - Haufe RK255/1

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 22, 2010, 03:57:44 AM
???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 26, 2010, 05:50:57 PM
I think I figured it out with the input trafo.

Now I'm almost finished and I think I have some kind of problem inside.

If I'm feeding the two channels with the same signal and turn the pots the same I don't get the same reading at the meters inside the machine and in Logic. Even in stereo mode the pots is not showing the same thing to get the same signal out.

I have tried switching input trafo and tubes but without luck. Is it the VLT's there is the problem?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 27, 2010, 10:14:37 AM
I can see that many of you got the same problem.
Any drawings on how to trim the vactrols?

I don't have a to much input gain. I shall twist both Threshold og Input to max if I want to hear the really hard compression. I've used to Vactrols for both channels. When I do the same with the 1176 I can hear the hard compression in about half.

Any of you noticed that?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tomcat on November 27, 2010, 10:34:34 AM
I remember i did read something in the last 46 pages about a trimmer on the vactrols and use of dual vactrols.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 27, 2010, 08:10:25 PM
I remember i did read something in the last 46 pages about a trimmer on the vactrols and use of dual vactrols.
Hi tomcat.
I've looked around but I can't find some info that explain exactly what to do in this situation? Some people changes Vactrols and some one using trimmers on some legs of the Vactrols..  ??? ??? ???

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tomcat on November 27, 2010, 09:31:04 PM
Did you try the dual vactrol approach?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 28, 2010, 02:20:40 AM
Did you try the dual vactrol approach?
Yes I did the Kubi mod. One facing up, One facing down. :)

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on November 28, 2010, 07:59:51 AM
hello Soeren_DK
I solved using the trimmer 500R on the vactrol + ....
I have another problem ....
when I'm more than half of the input pot   hear saturation ...
can be a power problem?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 28, 2010, 09:28:24 AM
hello Soeren_DK
I solved using the trimmer 500R on the vactrol + ....
I have another problem ....
when I'm more than half of the input pot   hear saturation ...
can be a power problem?
thanks

@ilfungo
Thanks :) :)
What leg is it? On all 4 vactrols?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on November 28, 2010, 09:49:33 AM
+ on led.... ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on November 30, 2010, 04:49:39 AM
hello Soeren_DK
I solved using the trimmer 500R on the vactrol + ....
I have another problem ....
when I'm more than half of the input pot   hear saturation ...
can be a power problem?
thanks

 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Soeren_DK on December 04, 2010, 03:26:48 PM
hello Soeren_DK
I solved using the trimmer 500R on the vactrol + ....
I have another problem ....
when I'm more than half of the input pot   hear saturation ...
can be a power problem?
thanks

What about the mod with the trimmer? Could it cause this kind of problem?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on December 04, 2010, 04:18:30 PM
hello Soeren_DK and thanks for your reply
no, do not think so.
the problem is present even without compression .....
Just past the half with  input pot I have distorted sound ...

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on December 28, 2010, 03:09:41 PM
Hi, im trying to finish this build that i started a loooong time ago.

I have two edcor xs1100 transformers that i was gonna use for the inputs, but im not sure how to wire them exactly. the windings are 2+2:1+1 i think.

The data for the transformer is here. http://edcorusa.com/products/346-xs1100.aspx

Can somebody please take a gander at the specs and tell me what would the best way to use it? It would save me alot of headache since its been ages i had to hookup a transformer last.

Btw, is it possible to connect it in backwards somehow so that i get some stepup gain, so i dont have to send a superhot signal for the unit to compress? Or will that f**k with the impedances?

Thanks for any help or guidance on where to read up on this.
Cheers,
Jonas
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on January 13, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
Hi all
Anyone can tell me how to connect the primary of the trafo that i'm buy from dasmusikding for the D-AOC ??
i send the picture of the trafo
Please let me know
Thank you
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on January 13, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
second picture
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on January 13, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
problem solved !!
violet and yellow are the two 220v , white and orange must soldering together
now look forward for finally complete the unit !!
Bye Bye
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 20, 2011, 08:09:48 AM
I continued my experiments on the distortion ...
I am almost convinced that the problem is on input transformer (edcor 600:10 k) ...
If input arrival with a maximum of half the sound is clean and beautiful ...
I would like to use for DAOC mastering, but when I go in with an extremely high signal (Song Mix) I can not regain what compress ...
someone has a similar problem?
does anyone know the input liimit of these transformers?
is there an alternative?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on January 20, 2011, 08:42:23 AM
4:1 step up is not needed. 1:1 (10k:10k or 15k:15k) is all is needed. Kubi mod is a must (IMHO).
With high levels you are killing the input tube.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 20, 2011, 09:15:37 AM
thanks but I do not understand ....
Kuby says:
"Change the input transformer from 10k:10k to 600:10k. Can be the same like the output transformer. 1:3 is cool, too.

600Ohms is high enough to be driven from any professional gear from the last 60 years. The changed transformer will give you additional 12dB gain at the input which you might really need as the compressor needs to be driven hard. It will also marginally improve the noise figures as a side effect due to the lower resistance. "

you advice 10K: 10K?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on January 20, 2011, 10:10:23 AM
thanks but I do not understand ....
Kuby says:
"Change the input transformer from 10k:10k to 600:10k. Can be the same like the output transformer. 1:3 is cool, too.

600Ohms is high enough to be driven from any professional gear from the last 60 years. The changed transformer will give you additional 12dB gain at the input which you might really need as the compressor needs to be driven hard. It will also marginally improve the noise figures as a side effect due to the lower resistance. "

you advice 10K: 10K?
thanks

Yes I use 10k:10k and the rest are Kubi mods.

"600Ohms is high enough to be driven from any professional gear from the last 60 years."

Yes it is, but some  dislike the way it sounds. A lot of pro equipment uses AB output driver stages which will
introduce a (unpleasent) higher crossover distortion when loaded with 600ohm (higher THD as well) .
To conclude yes they can drive 600ohm but they were designed with 10k loads in mind.
I use Lavry Blue D/A to DAOC and don't miss any volume. Outputs are  UTC A24 15K : 600ohm.
Oh- and i use 10uF Ampohm PIO caps at the output (so not ALL Kubi mods  ).
The other source of distortion is too hot signal to the input tube. With 1:4 that is more likely to happen then
with 1:1. I think 1:4 more applies to the 1 vactrol only situation.
just my 0.2c
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 20, 2011, 10:17:37 AM
Thanks Syn
I have 2 edcor XSM 10k: 10k I try and tell you what happens
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on January 20, 2011, 10:39:33 AM
I use my daoc unbalanced with kubi's mods because I felt the edcor were not consistent enough (one gave me no bass, and aftre replacing one both didn't sound the same...).
I will put transformers back when I get really goos ones, my cables are short anyway.
The makeup is usually all the way up but I have no problems with levels.
When mastering I calibrate to converter sensitivity to run at lower levels to preserve headroom and I can still get it to compresse with no problem.
I hope it helps!
jules
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 20, 2011, 01:44:37 PM
news ...
I changed the input 600:10 k with 10K: 10K and ...
much better for the signal edcor but I can not have a sound that satisfies me
you know you recommend inexpensive alternative?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on January 20, 2011, 04:26:35 PM
Why not try the Lundahl LL1540? Can be wired as 1:1 or 1:2.
Lundahls are supposed to sound clean and correct and these are not to expensive.
They're often sold here for around 30 euros.
Maybe try here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40845.msg506206#msg506206 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40845.msg506206#msg506206)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on January 20, 2011, 05:46:26 PM
See that you use a proper termination resistor (r101)
for the input transformer. It is hard to find inexpensive
but good high impedance transformer.Lundahl is good.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 20, 2011, 08:32:45 PM
Thanks Hank Dussen
thanks syn....
See that you use a proper termination resistor (r101)
for the input transformer. It is hard to find inexpensive
but good high impedance transformer.Lundahl is good.

What do you mean by correct value ?
Edcor XSM 10K: 10K (from Bom = 15k) is correct?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on January 21, 2011, 03:13:48 PM
it depends on the transformer you are going to use.some will be happy with 15k
some will be less happy.you have to decide what  transformer are you going to use
and then the termination network. the other way around will not work.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 21, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
Edcor XSM 10K: 10K

how can I calculate it?

thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on January 22, 2011, 04:27:40 AM
Use RMAA. Use o.scope. Do search, plenty of info on the forum.
For 10k:10k the obvious choice is 10k resistor. start from there if you like.
Transformer will reflect that value to the primary, so source (output of your DAC)
will see 10k load and will be happy with it.
I don't know anything about edcor transformers.
Best

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kambo on January 23, 2011, 06:06:48 AM
i am going through parts, i have most parts in stock,  PCB will be here soon :)
i think i am gonna have unbalanced out option, but like the drive the last tube stage , and have an additional
output control right at the unbalanced output...

should i use unbalanced attenuator calculated for 600ohm,  or 10K
or
should i order a good quality 1/2w pot, 10k, or 1k (as used with some balanced equipment)
cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 24, 2011, 03:17:40 PM
someone managed to change the vactrol attack and release?
I built two LA4 and changing a resistor from 82k to 150k has changed the response of vactrol.....(slow attack and release)
Can you tell me what resistor is is in DAOC?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on January 24, 2011, 03:28:18 PM
someone managed to change the vactrol attack and release?
I built two LA4 and changing a resistor from 82k to 150k has changed the response of vactrol.....(slow attack and release)
Can you tell me what resistor is is in DAOC?
Thanks


Hmm.. that would be nice indeed.
Anyone?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 26, 2011, 06:10:32 AM
 ???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 26, 2011, 07:04:18 AM
someone managed to change the vactrol attack and release?
I built two LA4 and changing a resistor from 82k to 150k has changed the response of vactrol.....(slow attack and release)
Can you tell me what resistor is is in DAOC?
???
please compare your LA4 schematic with the D-AOC schematic and let us know if you find any difference
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 26, 2011, 10:54:33 AM
Thanks [silent: arts]
comparing the two schematics suggests that  common resistor is:
R102 (DAOC)
R13 (LA4) from 82k to 150k ( slow attack and slow release)
vactrol datasheet  saw that changing the value of resistor can change the response....
you think it might be right?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 26, 2011, 11:04:38 AM
good comparison ;)

funnily it is even 8K2 vs 82K :D

I would say this resistor is your playground.
if it worked in your LA4 fine, if it works in the D-AOC  ???
you will find out
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 26, 2011, 12:19:55 PM
I would try using a POT
if it worked we would have a real control of attack!?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 26, 2011, 01:06:06 PM
I doubt this mod will do any change to any timing, not in the LA4, not in the D-AOC, but what do I know.
compare it to the LA2 schematic, one part of this resistor is switchable - how is it labeled?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on January 26, 2011, 03:10:12 PM
Hi Guys,
Anyone can explain me how to wiring the audio trafo between the bypass pcb and main pcb ??
please let me know
Thank you
Fabio
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on January 26, 2011, 07:50:49 PM
I doubt this mod will do any change to any timing, not in the LA4, not in the D-AOC, but what do I know.
compare it to the LA2 schematic, one part of this resistor is switchable - how is it labeled?



sorry [silent:arts]
I did not understand what did you tell me ...
What is the resistor switchable in LA2A?
R7?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on February 01, 2011, 03:32:53 PM
Finally i finishing my D-AOC !!
posting some picture , the only problem is the gain reduction metering when the unit is set on link mode.
one channel seems to compress more than the other one
if someone solving this problem please let me know
Many thanks to Silent Art ,Kubi and all the people of this fantastic forum !!
Thank you all
Fabio
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on February 01, 2011, 03:34:42 PM
second picture
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on February 01, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
third picture
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: envelope on February 08, 2011, 05:19:33 PM
Here is a general and minor inquiry posed to the few members who have reported heat stress on the 2W 470R

Were you using Metal-Film resistors or Metal-Oxide resistors in those locations?

They should be Metal-Oxide.

Also, I have noticed, while checking over the PCB, that the  PSU heatsink mounting pads area all tied to the ground plane. This is not the case with any of the other boards I have used with these PCB mounted heatsinks. Can this effect the audio signal ground?, act as antennae?, transfer heat to other nearby components?, etc?

EDIT: thank you for the heatsink reply below volker..... from DIGIkey, I have these TO-220 kits, and also using thermal paste, I should be good to go....http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=keystone+TO-220&stock=1
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 09, 2011, 01:55:24 AM
I used Metal-Oxide with no heat problems
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on February 09, 2011, 06:38:45 AM
darn it, i think i might have film...

/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 11, 2011, 03:59:10 AM
Fabio,

the color scheme in your 2nd picture is wrong:

(http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26585.0;attach=6295;image)

shouldn't it be (http://www.nationalflaggen.de/images/flaggen/flagge-italien-wehende-flagge-60x103.gif) instead of (http://www.nationalflaggen.de/images/flaggen/flagge-deutschland-wehende-flagge-60x90.gif) ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Audioman.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 11, 2011, 04:47:58 AM
... Also, I have noticed, while checking over the PCB, that the  PSU heatsink mounting pads area all tied to the ground plane. This is not the case with any of the other boards I have used with these PCB mounted heatsinks. Can this effect the audio signal ground?, act as antennae?, transfer heat to other nearby components?, etc?

oh, you modified your posting, missed the last question.
the heatsinks connected to GND won't affect the audio signal, won't act as an antenna, won't transfer heat to other components.
BUT it forces you to finally insulate your regulators properly ;D ;D ;D
(not often seen here in DIY land)
it is an educational thing :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on February 11, 2011, 07:02:27 PM
Hi Wolker !!
Thank you for the banner !!
you are right i make a mistake with colors  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Like berlusconi with escorts ......  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Fabio,

the color scheme in your 2nd picture is wrong:

(http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26585.0;attach=6295;image)

shouldn't it be (http://www.nationalflaggen.de/images/flaggen/flagge-italien-wehende-flagge-60x103.gif) instead of (http://www.nationalflaggen.de/images/flaggen/flagge-deutschland-wehende-flagge-60x90.gif) ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Audioman.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on February 23, 2011, 10:19:27 AM
I just have to remove the transformer for unbalanced input?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: j.frad on February 23, 2011, 10:22:18 AM
yep!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on February 23, 2011, 07:47:16 PM
thanks  j.frad
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blue Jinn on February 24, 2011, 07:56:03 PM
Edcor XSM 10K: 10K

how can I calculate it?

thanks

Found this thread:

http://edcorusa.com/boards/t/179/xsm-10k10k-correct-resistor.aspx
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on February 25, 2011, 04:48:39 AM
Hello everyone
 now I understand how DAOC  sounds really  .....
 I removed the transformers in and out and I discovered that my problems came from them ....
Can you advise me what can I use for the electronic balance?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on February 25, 2011, 04:41:17 PM
For mine i used sowter

INPUT SOWTER 8540
OUTPUT SOWTER 1010

they cost a lot ..... but it sounds good !!



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on March 11, 2011, 05:56:41 AM
sorry
which model Carnhill Transformer can be used as output?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on March 11, 2011, 11:16:32 AM
VTB2291
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on March 11, 2011, 08:17:14 PM
thanks syn

Have you tried?
someone has tried them?
Lundhal as input
Carnhill output?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on March 13, 2011, 01:51:03 AM
thanks syn

Have you tried?
someone has tried them?
Lundhal as input
Carnhill output?
Thanks


you are welcome.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35946.0



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on March 13, 2011, 08:21:10 AM
thanks  syn ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on March 19, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Black. Magic.

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/daoc3frontneu.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/3blitz.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/3seite.jpg)

Edcor I/P-Carnhill O/P iron. Old late-1950 Texas Instrument meter, illuminated with two LEDs.

Stereo matched via a 1k trimmer at Vactrol. Perfect stereo channel matching up to 10-12 dB compression.

Kubi mod. Standard JJ Tubes. Modushop case. Frequency response -1 dB at 19 kHz, I don't care, beyond my hearing.

THD-N at - 70 dBu, Noise floor at some -80 dBu.

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/3trafos.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/3mod.jpg)

Edit: exchanged photo
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: toffifee on March 19, 2011, 08:54:36 AM
Holger: Wau!  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on March 20, 2011, 04:17:54 PM
Here's a (stupid?) question: I'd like to change the pots for stepped attenuators. Do these have to be 2x switches, or can 1 use simple one-way switches like the Lorlin 12-position switch?

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on March 22, 2011, 09:54:57 AM
@Holger
First of all many compliments for your D-AOC build !!! simply beautiful .
I have two questions for you :

1-since i have same problem on the compression (the vactrols are not matched) can you tell me how to connect the 1k trimmer for match the compression ?

2-I see on the picture on the thread that you mount another trim on the left of the vactrols, is it another modification ?

please let me know
Thank you in advance
Fabio
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on March 22, 2011, 11:12:46 AM
 ;) Fabio,

as mentioned earlier in PM the first question is answered here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg522763#msg522763 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg522763#msg522763)

The additional trimmer is for adjusting the meter tracking, in other words 'the dance'. Set you meter to zero GR, apply a test signal and compress some 5-7 dB (read at external meter).
Adjust R X26 until the meter reads correct GR.
Mute signal, readjust 0 GR, reapeat procedure until your meter reads the proper amount of GR.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on March 22, 2011, 06:30:45 PM
What trimmer value you use for the meter tracking ??
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on March 22, 2011, 06:42:38 PM
A 50k trimmer...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on March 22, 2011, 07:59:17 PM
Thank you for the info !!!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on March 23, 2011, 12:52:21 PM
Holger great job!!!
you used Kuby mod
(matched) trimmer is only on the first vactrol?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on March 23, 2011, 01:01:08 PM
Yes. I'm a lazy guy and added the trimmer only to the first vactrol. Then I tried to match the two channels and it worked.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on March 30, 2011, 01:08:05 PM
Hey All-

Does anyone know if this has enough gain in the makeup stage to act as a mic pre? I have always wanted to hear an Akido mic pre... I would put a 1:10 input just before r103, maybe with a lower value. If I could get 40db plus the 20db from the tx, I would do it.

What do you all think??

Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: babyhead on April 01, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
Self serving bump.

I'll try it out regardless, but I am curious while I wait for parts...

Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 04, 2011, 08:32:51 AM
Holger, congrats for number 3 :o

if you build more I will need to buy a new rack ...

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/D-AOC_Rack.jpg)

... and at D-AOC number 5 you get a free D-AOC shirt ;D ;D ;D :D

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Holger1.gif)

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Holger2.gif)

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-Holger3.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bobine on April 14, 2011, 02:14:40 PM
Hi... I just got my D-AOC working and I have a few questions about the power supply.

My Edcors are in the mail so I set it up without transformers. It sounds REALLY great. Frequency response is nearly flat to 20Khz. There is distortion but I like it. I think it might be worth keeping it this way as a "color" box.

I'm using half of a 250-0-250 toroid. It is actually giving me 270vac. I have 325vdc before R1 and 302vdc after R1. I have 258vdc after the vreg and end up with 248vdc after Rx28.

The vreg heats up to around 120F (49C) but R1 is 170F (77C) or more. I guess it's all within the specs, but I'm worried about R1 (470R 2W). Should I replace it with a 3W or even 5W resistor? Should I use 500R or higher to bring down the voltage into the vreg?

The voltage spikes up to around 295vdc before settling down to 248v. Is that normal?

Also, I'm using AC for the heaters, which seems to work fine (self noise is -82db). The transformer is rated for 2A, so I wonder if I am leaving enough overhead if I'm using 1.8A for the heaters? I'm running the lights off the 5v winding.

I'm looking forward to hearing the difference the transformers make.  But for a budget build, doing this with AC heaters and no transformers still makes a pretty great box.

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on April 25, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
Hi,

a bit off topic, but how did you measure the slopes and end up with nice graphs like this:


(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-Slopes.GIF)

[/quote]
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 25, 2011, 11:53:39 AM
http://www.nti-audio.com/Home/Products/RackmountAnalyzers/A2/tabid/99/Default.aspx

the software could need an update, written for W95 ...
needed some tweaks, but now works well under XP on Parallels Desktop [I only have Apple computers]
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: flintan on April 26, 2011, 06:42:03 PM
(http://audiofor.tv/diy/daoc3/3blitz.jpg)
[..]
Frequency response -1 dB at 19 kHz, I don't care, beyond my hearing.

Oh my, nice build! Again..

I found that the capacitance of the wire i used (20-30cm, ~120pF/m) to the output pot gives a rolloff about -1dB @ 20kHz. When replacing the out pot with fixed resistors at the pcb i got a boost of +1dB @ 20kHz, probably due to some transformer resonance or something.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on May 07, 2011, 05:49:45 AM
Finally had time to finish the late Christmas present i made myself, wanted to make it look fancy for my first Tube project, i think that's mission acomplished, but don't know if i'll do on my next build tough  ::). Had some tiny issues but all is good.
I got to thank Volker and Analag for the project, Franck @NRG for all the panel work Danke Schoën to you guys i'll have an Augustiner on this one, PROST!
Also like to thank Mad.Ax for his help and clarifications (merci monsieur) and all of you guys here for the inspiration and help also, without the forum i wouldn't even have tought about all this.

On quick sound check, i was pleased by the sound and compression, i'll use it as is for some time and tweak on taste, i just have a low HT when all tubes are in 188V at R128  ???, but all works as expected, all matched as possible etc....
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5548/frontynu.jpg)
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8830/closeupp.jpg)
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8092/guts.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tzman on May 07, 2011, 08:34:21 AM
Finally had time to finish the late Christmas present i made myself, wanted to make it look fancy for my first Tube project, i think that's mission acomplished, but don't know if i'll do on my next build tough  ::). Had some tiny issues but all is good.
I got to thank Volker and Analag for the project, Franck @NRG for all the panel work Danke Schoën to you guys i'll have an Augustiner on this one, PROST!
Also like to thank Mad.Ax for his help and clarifications (merci monsieur) and all of you guys here for the inspiration and help also, without the forum i wouldn't even have tought about all this.

On quick sound check, i was pleased by the sound and compression, i'll use it as is for some time and tweak on taste, i just have a low HT when all tubes are in 188V at R128  ???, but all works as expected, all matched as possible etc....


Nice!

I see you're using SCR Audio caps, right?
What value did you use for Cx04? And what exactly did you use for the curve mod? Blue LED's, double vactrol?

Cheers!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on May 07, 2011, 08:35:23 AM
Wow. Fresh design, heatsink overkill, switched resistors rather than pots, really nice.
What capacitors are you using instead Wimas?
How did you built the hard/soft curve adjustment?
Regarding the meter zero pots: have you ever used them once the right value was found, IOW does your zero GR point move?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on May 07, 2011, 08:50:52 AM
Thanks guys.

Quote
I see you're using SCR Audio caps, right?
What value did you use for Cx04? And what exactly did you use for the curve mod? Blue LED's, double vactrol?

Yes SCR, why SCR? well just to add a little french in there  :D, and i went stock values meaning 100nF for Cx04

Quote
How did you built the hard/soft curve adjustment?

I made myself a litte PCB based on a 2*6 Lorlin, saves some wiring, i went for 5 curves, but i guess 3 or 4 would have been enough.
Simple Vactrol for now, and i soldered Blue//; Red //; 1K; 100K; Blue anti//, red doesn't do much, i'll try some other things, but i'm still tweaking and  learning here so....
EDIT: I went for Blue//; 1K ; 100K ; Blue anti// ; Red anti//, that is what it seems to be for now, going from Soft to Hard.

Quote
Regarding the meter zero pots: have you ever used them once the right value was found, IOW does your zero GR point move?

Doesn't move much, but it did, maybe not something very important on this one, your idea of a trimmer would have been good also, will see with time, it's freshly made so i need to use a lot and see how it behaves, overall pros and cons, what can be changed or not need to  etc.....
But on quick sound check i liked a lot what i heard, and i'm not saying this because i have to  :P :D, i was pretty confident about the overall result, i trust people around here more then the people out there (i mean in the industry) haha

Quote
heatsink overkill

Actually it was for TO220 Package of the lm350, but after some time i was doing an order on Mouser and found an lm350K on TO3 for a descent price, so after seeing this heatsink, i said hoooooo my precious  :D, installed another one  :P, all gets warm not hot, but safe.....
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 07, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
Danke Schoën to you guys i'll have an Augustiner on this one, PROST!

Enjoy! (Augustiner and D-AOC)!
Very nice built, and a fantastic looking unique front panel  :) :) :)

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-zayance.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on May 08, 2011, 04:08:38 AM
Quote
a fantastic looking unique front panel
:-[ i'm flattered, i think the D-AOC rack is filled with unique stuff too!!!

Thanks for the project again, now lets experiment.....
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Peter A on May 12, 2011, 03:20:43 AM
Hallo dear d-aoc fellows.

I'm about to finish my d-aoc and have some questions.

Last night I swaped my input iron, edcor 1:1 with JLM14 1:4 to get more action on the input.
I now get a lot of distortion, especialy in the low freq. and have to back down on the output on my preamp.  Is that to be expected?

When the unit is compressing heavely, It seems to lose some high freq. Is that normal?

I have done no mods except for the input iron. I'm planning to try some of Kubis mods shortly.

I'm not sure, but i think that the edcors roll of a bit highs (very subtle) compared to the jlm14. I have not measured it yet, just my immidiate impression.
Any way the unit sounds very well and performes well as a tracking comp. (have only tried it on akustik guitar so far)
I'l post some picks and other details later on, when the unit is finished.

Best regards

Peter
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Peter A on May 22, 2011, 02:11:18 PM
Hallo

Well finally finished my tube comp.
Got this Purusha case and pcbs lieing around for a couple of years and finally got it done.

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/d-aoc_front01.jpg)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/d-aoc_detail_vactrol01.jpg)

More pics here:

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=11161&pos=-4424



I'm very pleased with the sound and behaviour og this machine. I look forward to using it.

I have installed double vactrols, which I ordert matched from the Banzai shop.
I have 2 slopes. One with double (hard) and another with 330r across a single vactrol (soft).

I did not like the JLM input transformers because of the low freq distortion. To much input I guess. I will have to use them for another job. 
The Edcor 10K 10K are doing a great job so I think they are keepers.

I have a 470R 50w resistor between board and power transformer giving me 245V. The Music Ding trafo gave 280V without resistor. A bit on the hi side I thought.
Meters are from Hair Ball with led lighting. They look nice and I have pretty precise meter readings. (with a 50k trimmer in place of  x26)

Only problem for now is the stereo tracking with the link switch engaged. It is 2 or 3 db off on one side.
I’m also a bit concerned about the heat from the regulators. I can touch them without getting burned but they are HOT.


Very special Thanks to Analag, Silent Arts and Kubi for this fine projekt. Also a big thanks to everybody  in this great forum! This place is fantastic :-)

Best regards Peter
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 23, 2011, 02:49:47 AM
Hi Peter,

nice and clean build, congratulation!

the JLM input transformers are Mic input transformers,
my guess is with normal studio levels distortion is to be expected.

(http://www.51xaudio.com/images/DAOC-PeterA.gif)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on May 27, 2011, 10:03:19 AM
sowter 3612 can work as output?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: syn on May 27, 2011, 03:17:03 PM
no.
10k:600 needed.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on June 03, 2011, 03:26:56 PM
What tubes is everyone using?

I know, I know... one and the same tube sounds different depending on the circuit, and different people use different tubes depending on the sound they prefer...

What do I prefer? Well, clarity, I guess. I opted for building the DOAC because I read that it's rather on the transparent side. So naturally I wonder whether different tubes (from standard JJ to esoteric) make much of a difference here. I have JJs (12AU7) and EHs (12AT7) lying around from another project, but thought maybe it's time to try something different. However, I don't intent to invest money on Telefunken etc. -- but there are many bottles from various makers inbetween. Anyway, I'd have to order them first, and using different tubes in the DAOC is a topic that seems little discussed. Is there a reason?

Anyone willing to share experiences with testing different tubes in this comp? Any observation would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 04, 2011, 03:02:43 AM
What tubes is everyone using?

I know, I know... one and the same tube sounds different depending on the circuit, and different people use different tubes depending on the sound they prefer...

What do I prefer? Well, clarity, I guess. I opted for building the DOAC because I read that it's rather on the transparent side. So naturally I wonder whether different tubes (from standard JJ to esoteric) make much of a difference here. I have JJs (12AU7) and EHs (12AT7) lying around from another project, but thought maybe it's time to try something different. However, I don't intent to invest money on Telefunken etc. -- but there are many bottles from various makers inbetween. Anyway, I'd have to order them first, and using different tubes in the DAOC is a topic that seems little discussed. Is there a reason?

Anyone willing to share experiences with testing different tubes in this comp? Any observation would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Good question.. i'm also thinking about getting better tubes for this things since i use it quite a lot for mastering. Love it for that!
Mullard tubes seem to be really good but are also really expensive and so i'm not sure if it's worth the money. So any good alterneatives? I think i have JJ's as well, not sure, have to open it up. I didn't spend to much on the tubes back then.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on June 04, 2011, 04:18:54 AM
Would a transformer upgrade not make more of a difference instead of tube's? Maybe Holger can shed a light on this...??
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 04, 2011, 05:36:44 AM
I use Telefunken now - what should I say ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on June 04, 2011, 07:37:11 AM
R 25 (470K) is for negative feedback in amp stage, trading unused gain for higher linearity?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 04, 2011, 12:13:32 PM
Would a transformer upgrade not make more of a difference instead of tube's? Maybe Holger can shed a light on this...??
It does indeed, mine has lundahls ((the ones i bought from you way back) which was a big step up to the edcors!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 04, 2011, 12:14:40 PM
I use Telefunken now - what should I say ;D

OK, going to check telefunken. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 04, 2011, 12:26:21 PM
Telefunken is expensive, watch your pocket!
(but ask waldorfcave for the difference in a D-LA2A (http://www.nrgrecording.de/nrg/viewtopic.php?t=405&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80))
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: radiance on June 04, 2011, 02:52:38 PM
Would a transformer upgrade not make more of a difference instead of tube's? Maybe Holger can shed a light on this...??
It does indeed, mine has lundahls ((the ones i bought from you way back) which was a big step up to the edcors!


ow...now you mention it ....LOL  :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on June 04, 2011, 06:02:13 PM
Would a transformer upgrade not make more of a difference instead of tube's? Maybe Holger can shed a light on this...??

See it this way: you see the 20$ Edcors, and you see the wonderful painted 25£ Carnhills. What can your ears tell you when you already know this?  ;)
Never tried a direct comparison, I hope that I'll have time some days.
So, IIRC, there is a slight but noticeable improvement. BTW; I'm still using the cheapo JJ tubes. Never changed them and I'm certainly not willing to spend the next projects money on tube exchanges.
If my mixes are noisy, I use Adobe Audition's noise removal tools to get rid of the dirt, if there's any.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 05, 2011, 03:13:27 AM
Telefunken is expensive, watch your pocket!
(but ask waldorfcave for the difference in a D-LA2A (http://www.nrgrecording.de/nrg/viewtopic.php?t=405&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80))
Yeah, never knew those telefunken tubes where that pricey. Thought they where quite a lot cheaper. Found a matched pair somewhere for $400(!). Some ultra special NOS series and only 4 available and things like that. Not worth it..
Maybe i will go for some mullards, could be worth it.. anyone know a place where to get them in the EU?

@radiance: never used them on the pultec i bought 'm for, used edcors for that one and so the lundhals are in my d-aoc and i'm totally happy with them. Way better then the edcors which sound a bit muddy to my ears.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on June 05, 2011, 09:53:05 AM
$400 for Telefunzen? Sounds like fetishism to me...

Tubetown have Mullards (AT7) for 25€ per piece, plus 8€ for shipping to NL. Website says something about possible import tax though. There might be cheaper places. Let us know.





Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 05, 2011, 02:39:28 PM
$400 for Telefunzen? Sounds like fetishism to me...

Tubetown have Mullards (AT7) for 25€ per piece, plus 8€ for shipping to NL. Website says something about possible import tax though. There might be cheaper places. Let us know.



What is their website? google just comes up with tube-town.de and tubetown/tube-town.com is a non existing domain,
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on June 05, 2011, 02:52:21 PM
it's tube-town.net
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 05, 2011, 03:02:08 PM
too bad.. they only have ecc81, i also need 4x ecc82. You can even get a matched pair ecc81's for 60 dollar directly from mullard so even cheaper.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on June 05, 2011, 04:02:33 PM
...You can even get a matched pair ecc81's for 60 dollar directly from mullard so even cheaper.
Can't beat that :)

Matched pair of ECC82 for $125 directly from Mullard, probably can't beat that either... but I guess I'll opt for cheapo JJs in sidechain position first.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on June 14, 2011, 02:12:53 AM
I ordered Mullards for my d-aoc, can't wait to get 'm in and find out if it really makes a difference.  ;D

I was also doing some testing and finetuning (still really love it for mastering) and found out that the 470r resistor right after the rectifier in the high voltage section was still running really hot. So hot that it started to get brown again and the paint got loose. According to the BOM this is 470r 2w but to me this is just to low to power the 6 tubes? I ordered a 10w version which should be more then enough  ;D and for now i have 2x 1k 2w in parallel but they are still running pretty hot. Did anyone elso notice this?  ??? Could it be the tubes? well.. in that case that should be solved soon with the new Mullard tubes.

Also wondering about the output transformer. I have a lundahl on the input which made a pretty big difference and so i was thinking of getting a LL1540 on the output. Will that make a difference compared to the Edcor? I always thought the output trafo is less critical (check the output trafo tests that holger did on the first page) and so i'm a bit in doubt if it will make a big difference.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 27, 2011, 07:33:10 AM
help
how connect   Jensen JT-11P-1 on DAOC input?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on June 27, 2011, 09:35:08 AM
Quote
help
how connect   Jensen JT-11P-1 on DAOC input?

Scroll down:

http://www.nu9n.com/tx.html
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 27, 2011, 06:47:23 PM
thanks zayance
I don't know why but after some test with edcor and jensen
I prefer unbalanced input...
other have the same impression?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 28, 2011, 11:41:18 AM
Sorry I have a doubt ....
if I use Jensen JT-11P-1 I need to change the value of R101?
Can you tell me what should be?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 29, 2011, 05:22:29 AM
???
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on June 29, 2011, 05:27:01 AM
Dunno if you "should" change the R101, on Silent arts input transformer test, it seems all was connected as is in a 1:1 configuration.
So just try it out.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on June 29, 2011, 05:42:12 AM
I did some tests and I noticed that I lose about two dB compared to the unbalanced ....
Is this normal?
I also noticed something strange about the sound
I'll try to change R101 from  15k to 10k
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 15, 2011, 03:08:01 PM
Am I  late to the party???


Getting ready to start my build and after reading all 53 pages of this thread I have a few questions that are a little unclear, and hopefully some one can shed some light on me:

1.If I am doing the Kubi Mods, I assume that I do not need the Red or Blue LEDs for curve characteristics

2. I noticed some people use the zener, and some use the Neon lamp, what is the reason for choosing one over the other?

3. I will be using this for mastering, would people recommend the kubi opto mod, or zayance approach with selectable hard/soft curve adjustments??

Also there are many recommendations on i/o transformers... Besides the brand, I am reading a 10k/10k input and a 10k/10k output since I am working w short cable runs and are mostly going to use this as a bus on my DAW...

Am I correct to understand this? Sorry to ask these questions, Transformer choices always confuse me!


Thanks in advanced.  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on July 17, 2011, 06:06:24 AM
I'l by no means an expert but her it goes:

1.If I am doing the Kubi Mods, I assume that I do not need the Red or Blue LEDs for curve characteristics
There a many way to change the compression curve. Some use leds, The Kubi Mod uses a second vactrol. (see link on page one)

2. I noticed some people use the zener, and some use the Neon lamp, what is the reason for choosing one over the other?
As I believe the neon is more 'traditional', the zener more 'reliable'. I'd say go with the zener.

3. I will be using this for mastering, would people recommend the kubi opto mod, or zayance approach with selectable hard/soft curve adjustments??

Also there are many recommendations on i/o transformers... Besides the brand, I am reading a 10k/10k input and a 10k/10k output since I am working w short cable runs and are mostly going to use this as a bus on my DAW...
For mastering purposes use switches instead of pots. There are these cheap blue 2 deck switches you can use but I always forget the brand.
Input should be 10k:10k (1:1)  to 600:10k (1:4), output 10k:600. For mastering go for good transparant transformers like Jenssen or Lundahl or so.
check this threat:http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37166.msg457204#msg457204 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37166.msg457204#msg457204)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 17, 2011, 07:07:42 AM
Quote
There are these cheap blue 2 deck switches you can use but I always forget the brand.

http://uraltone.com/kauppa/index.php?cat=c53_Rotary-switches.html&XTCsid=dun72svt72bo1u6m068nhu58m0

No more on ebay for the 2 Decks  :'(, the guy who sold them before was doing even cheaper prices...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: seavote on July 17, 2011, 09:28:20 AM
Quote
There are these cheap blue 2 deck switches you can use but I always forget the brand.

http://uraltone.com/kauppa/index.php?cat=c53_Rotary-switches.html&XTCsid=dun72svt72bo1u6m068nhu58m0

No more on ebay for the 2 Decks  :'(, the guy who sold them before was doing even cheaper prices...

i bought some 4 deck switches. took them apart, removed 2 decks and reassembeled them.(very easy to do once they are open and you see how they work. i also drilled a new hole in the switch and put in a metalpost making the 24 pos a 16 pos switch)  you can also leave the 4 decks and only use 2.  for the price it is still worth buying the 4 deck switches
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 17, 2011, 09:58:07 AM
Quote
There are these cheap blue 2 deck switches you can use but I always forget the brand.

http://uraltone.com/kauppa/index.php?cat=c53_Rotary-switches.html&XTCsid=dun72svt72bo1u6m068nhu58m0

No more on ebay for the 2 Decks  :'(, the guy who sold them before was doing even cheaper prices...

i bought some 4 deck switches. took them apart, removed 2 decks and reassembeled them.(very easy to do once they are open and you see how they work. i also drilled a new hole in the switch and put in a metalpost making the 24 pos a 16 pos switch)  you can also leave the 4 decks and only use 2.  for the price it is still worth buying the 4 deck switches
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Yes true, but one thing, when taking a deck out, you're left with the center axis beeing too long iirc, you cut that also then, i didn't bother on mine, but did the metalstop pin, thanks to "dagoose" for that tip.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 17, 2011, 05:03:59 PM
I'l by no means an expert but her it goes:

1.If I am doing the Kubi Mods, I assume that I do not need the Red or Blue LEDs for curve characteristics
There a many way to change the compression curve. Some use leds, The Kubi Mod uses a second vactrol. (see link on page one)

2. I noticed some people use the zener, and some use the Neon lamp, what is the reason for choosing one over the other?
As I believe the neon is more 'traditional', the zener more 'reliable'. I'd say go with the zener.

3. I will be using this for mastering, would people recommend the kubi opto mod, or zayance approach with selectable hard/soft curve adjustments??

Also there are many recommendations on i/o transformers... Besides the brand, I am reading a 10k/10k input and a 10k/10k output since I am working w short cable runs and are mostly going to use this as a bus on my DAW...
For mastering purposes use switches instead of pots. There are these cheap blue 2 deck switches you can use but I always forget the brand.
Input should be 10k:10k (1:1)  to 600:10k (1:4), output 10k:600. For mastering go for good transparant transformers like Jenssen or Lundahl or so.
check this threat:http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37166.msg457204#msg457204 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37166.msg457204#msg457204)

Great thanks for the info, I was planning on going w these type of transformers... How do you guys like Cinemag, they are local to me and have always built quality transformers for various projects of mine in the past.. Shoot wish I would have read more in depth before i bought the pots, well I can build it as is and switch out the pots for switches as they come.. Still unsure how they work since i dont have them infront of me so Id would be a little lost on what to look for.. I asume Im looking for something like a 24 position Single pole of the exact value of the pot im replacing?

Edit: I think I just answered my own question, I do need a 24step 2 pole... Just found some on the evil bay

http://cgi.ebay.com/2P-24-Step-Attenuator-Volume-Control-Pot-Log-100K-Mono-/260806367240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9455808#ht_2229wt_1082

11$us a pop, now I replace all pots with these? or just the compression pots?? My guess is all of them, will probably order them right now...

Also Bout the neon bulbs, will try out how it works and will probably switch to the zeners if i run into trouble, thanks and your time is much appreciated fellas..

In addition, if some one could be so kind to give me some metering specifications or a link to a good VU meter, ive read all 53 pages and there is very little vu meter talk. I know that the VU driver is the same as the LA2A searching through the pages theres so many opinions on what to use, Im just looking for something sleek, plug and play if possible :

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=86

I like this meter, but dont know for sure if this will work, also the price is a little steep, just looking to get some feedback on some meters in the same style as the hairball meters...

Thanks again for the info
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on July 18, 2011, 03:53:31 AM
Cinemags are good.
So are the Hairball meters. There are lots of VU meters around. As I believe you live in the US (you should add this to your profile) maybe some US guys can point you to some cheap VU-meters.

About the switches: you only need 1 pole but Uraltone doesn't make these so 2 pole will of course do.
The ones in your link already have the resistors soldered, which is easy but these are 100k log and you also need 500k log. So you'll have to buy 'empy' ones and calculate the resistors. There's a spreadsheet here somewhere for that.
BTW you can mod the switches so they have a stop: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40384.msg499957#msg499957 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40384.msg499957#msg499957)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 18, 2011, 12:16:06 PM
Cinemags are good.
So are the Hairball meters. There are lots of VU meters around. As I believe you live in the US (you should add this to your profile) maybe some US guys can point you to some cheap VU-meters.

About the switches: you only need 1 pole but Uraltone doesn't make these so 2 pole will of course do.
The ones in your link already have the resistors soldered, which is easy but these are 100k log and you also need 500k log. So you'll have to buy 'empy' ones and calculate the resistors. There's a spreadsheet here somewhere for that.
BTW you can mod the switches so they have a stop: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40384.msg499957#msg499957 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40384.msg499957#msg499957)

Thanks, I belive that it is added to my profile  8) Will definitely look into these switches, the guy on ebay has 100 and 500k available, thanks for your time, and yeah, at this point, my last milestone is selecting a decent VU meter that works with out much messing around.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 24, 2011, 09:30:16 PM
I ordered Mullards for my d-aoc, can't wait to get 'm in and find out if it really makes a difference.  ;D

Have the Mullard Buizen arrived already? Can't wait to hear about your impression.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on July 25, 2011, 01:23:35 PM
Just wondering which ECC82 / 12AU7 is used in the sidechain, a quick look at the schematic suggests the socket nearest the vactrols / meter terminals at the front of the PCB. I'm short of a pair & I'm assuming that the sidechain valves are not in the audio signal chain so don't need to be the best quality super expensive ones available?

Powered up the build for the first time with 4 very old knackered Mullard valves fitted & the voltage readings seem fine, I've got 249DC without the two other valves installed which seems within range, heaters are OK.

Just need to get another pair of ECC82's to finish this off & I'm short of one Sifam meter since one of my pair doesn't seem to work anymore!!!! ::)



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on July 25, 2011, 01:53:53 PM
I ordered Mullards for my d-aoc, can't wait to get 'm in and find out if it really makes a difference.  ;D

Have the Mullard Buizen arrived already? Can't wait to hear about your impression.
Yes they have and i must say that it makes a subtle yet noticaeble difference.
It just sounds a bit more 'pro' now, can't give it another description. I'm happy with it!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 25, 2011, 02:05:54 PM
Im building an all telefunken unit, w ecc801s and 802s, will post up my impressions when its done.  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 25, 2011, 03:49:46 PM
Can anyone confirm the height of the build, I see alot of 2U unit but I want to confirm it will fit in the case that im purchasing... 87.1MM (3.4") is the height of the 2U case that Im purchasing.. Is this enough clearance??
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 26, 2011, 11:22:37 PM
Where did you get the illuminated power switch!!!



Finally had time to finish the late Christmas present i made myself, wanted to make it look fancy for my first Tube project, i think that's mission acomplished, but don't know if i'll do on my next build tough  ::). Had some tiny issues but all is good.
I got to thank Volker and Analag for the project, Franck @NRG for all the panel work Danke Schoën to you guys i'll have an Augustiner on this one, PROST!
Also like to thank Mad.Ax for his help and clarifications (merci monsieur) and all of you guys here for the inspiration and help also, without the forum i wouldn't even have tought about all this.

On quick sound check, i was pleased by the sound and compression, i'll use it as is for some time and tweak on taste, i just have a low HT when all tubes are in 188V at R128  ???, but all works as expected, all matched as possible etc....
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5548/frontynu.jpg)
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8830/closeupp.jpg)
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8092/guts.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 27, 2011, 04:53:57 AM
Quote
Where did you get the illuminated power switch!!!

http://fr.farnell.com/marquardt/1555-3102/rocker-switch-red-dp-150/dp/1831119
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on July 27, 2011, 08:50:41 AM
Can anyone confirm the height of the build, I see alot of 2U unit but I want to confirm it will fit in the case that im purchasing... 87.1MM (3.4") is the height of the 2U case that Im purchasing.. Is this enough clearance??
Yes, that should work.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on July 27, 2011, 05:18:02 PM
Can anyone confirm the height of the build, I see alot of 2U unit but I want to confirm it will fit in the case that im purchasing... 87.1MM (3.4") is the height of the 2U case that Im purchasing.. Is this enough clearance??
Yes, that should work.

The underneath of the pcb to the top of the valves is about 70mm on my build so add the length of the spacers & clearance  above the valves & compare to the inside height of your case. Some 2U cases are deeper inside than others
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on July 28, 2011, 09:26:47 AM
Lundahl LL1521
Can work as input?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 28, 2011, 04:24:55 PM
Im going to put all the curve mods on a pcb, and hook up a 1p 8 position rotary switch to have a curve selection going from soft to hard...

I figure putting a 1k trimmer on each will allow me to really fine tune the curves so they are exactly the same on both channels.. Extra work but worth it in my case.


Reading this chart
http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/KubiMod.GIF

Please correct me if Im wrong, Im trying to determine the order of the softest to hardest curves, my guess is:
1. No Mods
2. Blue Led Parallel
3.Red Led Parallel
4. 100k resistor
5.1k. resistor
6.Blue Led Anti
7. Kubi Mod

Quoting Zayance "EDIT: I went for Blue//; 1K ; 100K ; Blue anti// ; Red anti//, that is what it seems to be for now, going from Soft to Hard." Im just a dummy and I dont see how this works out... Please some one educate me..

Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 28, 2011, 04:30:25 PM
Can anyone confirm the height of the build, I see alot of 2U unit but I want to confirm it will fit in the case that im purchasing... 87.1MM (3.4") is the height of the 2U case that Im purchasing.. Is this enough clearance??
Yes, that should work.

The underneath of the pcb to the top of the valves is about 70mm on my build so add the length of the spacers & clearance  above the valves & compare to the inside height of your case. Some 2U cases are deeper inside than others

Great thanks guys for the quick reply
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 29, 2011, 04:34:49 AM
Quote
Quoting Zayance "EDIT: I went for Blue//; 1K ; 100K ; Blue anti// ; Red anti//, that is what it seems to be for now, going from Soft to Hard." Im just a dummy and I dont see how this works out... Please some one educate me..

You mean for the wiring?

Well lets say if you were using only two selections, red anti and Blue//, you would use a DPDT switch right?
Two pole because a LED has two poles,  + and  -.
So if you use a rotary switch, mine was a 2x6 Lorlin, wich means a 2 pole 6 throw, then you wire
+and - of the Vactrol LED side to the poles of the Switch, and solder the LED poles according to the rotary switch, and the the // or anti// you want.
This combination i think it achieves a half wave rectifier i guess, i actually wanted to try with a full wave rectifier there, but didn't bothered the mod.

BTW, this is not my approach of it, members of this forum have tought about that way before i did it.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on July 29, 2011, 05:10:21 AM
Quote
Quoting Zayance "EDIT: I went for Blue//; 1K ; 100K ; Blue anti// ; Red anti//, that is what it seems to be for now, going from Soft to Hard." Im just a dummy and I dont see how this works out... Please some one educate me..

You mean for the wiring?

Well lets say if you were using only two selections, red anti and Blue//, you would use a DPDT switch right?
Two pole because a LED has two poles,  + and  -.
So if you use a rotary switch, mine was a 2x6 Lorlin, wich means a 2 pole 6 throw, then you wire
+and - of the Vactrol LED side to the poles of the Switch, and solder the LED poles according to the rotary switch, and the the // or anti// you want.
This combination i think it achieves a half wave rectifier i guess, i actually wanted to try with a full wave rectifier there, but didn't bothered the mod.

BTW, this is not my approach of it, members of this forum have tought about that way before i did it.


Thanks for the reply, Im not confused about how to wire the Mods, I was looking for some input on the sequence of the mods to go from soft to hard.... I want to wire it so that the 8 position switch selects from soft to hard, so I want to know from the curves in the example wich comes first and wich comes last...

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 29, 2011, 05:17:08 AM
Well not much calculations there, it's audio so i used my ears, and i found that going with my quote was what was acting as more Soft to Hard, and that even red anti is actually harder than Blue anti, depends on diode used also i guess...
I actually first went with Silent arts curve, and it was not acting right so....
It's the beginning of the Curve that is more noticeable to the ears, and to the reaction of the compression (attack)
Best to know is to try it out, and hear for yourself.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on July 29, 2011, 11:52:01 AM
Quote
Quoting Zayance "EDIT: I went for Blue//; 1K ; 100K ; Blue anti// ; Red anti//, that is what it seems to be for now, going from Soft to Hard." Im just a dummy and I dont see how this works out... Please some one educate me..

You mean for the wiring?

Well lets say if you were using only two selections, red anti and Blue//, you would use a DPDT switch right?
Two pole because a LED has two poles,  + and  -.
So if you use a rotary switch, mine was a 2x6 Lorlin, wich means a 2 pole 6 throw, then you wire
+and - of the Vactrol LED side to the poles of the Switch, and solder the LED poles according to the rotary switch, and the the // or anti// you want.
This combination i think it achieves a half wave rectifier i guess, i actually wanted to try with a full wave rectifier there, but didn't bothered the mod.

BTW, this is not my approach of it, members of this forum have tought about that way before i did it.
I think that for disconnecting the second vactrol for the standard mode the only thing you have to do is disconnect the led on one side. I think it doesn't matter which side but the leg going to ground might be the easiest thing to do. Am i correct? 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blue Jinn on August 01, 2011, 08:05:27 PM
Finally i finishing my D-AOC !!
posting some picture , the only problem is the gain reduction metering when the unit is set on link mode.
one channel seems to compress more than the other one
if someone solving this problem please let me know
Many thanks to Silent Art ,Kubi and all the people of this fantastic forum !!
Thank you all
Fabio

Did you use Schaefer for the frontpanel? Would you mind sharing the fpd file if so? That is a nice looking build.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on August 05, 2011, 12:49:23 AM
Build update.. coming along nicely, waiting for vu, edcor power, and cinemags for i/o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on August 15, 2011, 02:07:10 PM
Quote
Where did you get the illuminated power switch!!!

http://fr.farnell.com/marquardt/1555-3102/rocker-switch-red-dp-150/dp/1831119

I bought the same rotary switches, can you point me in the right direction to getting some info on the angle of each position, Im having a hard time locating that. Im working on my front panel design and im thinking about having the spacings engraved instead of silk screen.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on August 16, 2011, 02:19:51 AM

So I fugured out how to get the scales all right. I uploaded a png file anyone  can use if you are using the uraltone [cina/ebay] type rotary switches. You can import this into corel or convert it to hpgl. If anyone needs the hpgl send me a PM

http://uraltone.com/kauppa/product_info.php?info=p1077_Kiertokytkin--2x24.html&XTCsid=q12mt2gmc2p67fa04ooapa14n5
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bobine on August 16, 2011, 08:40:12 AM
That looks like a better scale for a pot than a switch...with all the subdivisions. For a switch I think I'd want a 23-position numbered scale with no excess marks. Maybe odd numbers only?

The ticks are 15 degrees apart.

Here's a discussion: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28454.0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on August 16, 2011, 01:10:08 PM
That looks like a better scale for a pot than a switch...with all the subdivisions. For a switch I think I'd want a 23-position numbered scale with no excess marks. Maybe odd numbers only?

The ticks are 15 degrees apart.

Here's a discussion: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28454.0

Right, I for design  purposes like it like this... I didnt add any  numbers because some people can scale it how ever they may like, in corel you can take out any extra lines you may not need. The spacings are exactly 15degrees apart. Just tested it today. Its a starting point to anyone.

I numbered mine in my design, only at the 6-12-18 markings. I dont like a cluttered scale. I also left all the in between points just because it looks good on my design.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on August 16, 2011, 01:37:09 PM
Just wanted to show a little preview of my front pannel
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on September 26, 2011, 01:56:52 AM
Just finished my unit. check here
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45921.0
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on October 04, 2011, 11:44:48 AM
Finally got to really sit down and try and diagnose my issues. As it stands this is what my unit is doing

1. Acts as a limiter, sort of... at 0db compression there is a 1-2db gain reduction at full "input" and full "output"
2. At 0 compression, there is a permanent difference of about -.5 to -1db from the right channel to the left.
3. In link mode the channels are with in -1db matched, but in mono mode the difference is much larger, upto 6db in some settings.
4. The right channel starts to compress at about the 13 setting on the 23 position switch. The Left channel behaves normal with compression beginning at about the 9th position.

I checked all my voltages and they are correct, I checked the step switches and their values are with in 1% checked all my wiring. I also read all the 55 pages here and only a few times where my issues mentioned but never any solutions posted.

I was thinking to solve the issue of -1db while in 0 compression, to put a small trim pot on the output dial and trim off untill the channels are closely matched... any comments on this?



thanks In advanced for any suggestions...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on October 05, 2011, 05:27:29 PM
any one?? :(
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on November 08, 2011, 10:15:02 PM
You matched all resistors on the PCB?

Could it be unmatched tubes? Did you try swapping them (left/right)?

If you can't fix it -- one instant solution: run only MS signals through it.

Did you end up using Telefunken? How do they sound?




Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on November 09, 2011, 07:35:29 PM
Finally got to really sit down and try and diagnose my issues. As it stands this is what my unit is doing

1. Acts as a limiter, sort of... at 0db compression there is a 1-2db gain reduction at full "input" and full "output"
2. At 0 compression, there is a permanent difference of about -.5 to -1db from the right channel to the left.
3. In link mode the channels are with in -1db matched, but in mono mode the difference is much larger, upto 6db in some settings.
4. The right channel starts to compress at about the 13 setting on the 23 position switch. The Left channel behaves normal with compression beginning at about the 9th position.

I checked all my voltages and they are correct, I checked the step switches and their values are with in 1% checked all my wiring. I also read all the 55 pages here and only a few times where my issues mentioned but never any solutions posted.

I was thinking to solve the issue of -1db while in 0 compression, to put a small trim pot on the output dial and trim off untill the channels are closely matched... any comments on this?



thanks In advanced for any suggestions...

jsefer!!
I am in the same situation
great sound, but;
without compression, the two channels are out of 0.2 db (I'm happy to analog)
in mono mode, up to 5 dB (compression) = 0.5 db out
in mono mode, up to 10 dB (compression) = 2 db out
in stereo mode, all off.
Vactrol, are always
off (From what I read ............)
HELP!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: 3nity on November 14, 2011, 02:31:59 PM
My birthday coming and my wife decided that i deserve an D-OAC. ;D
Now i see that i have a Hammond PT box type...thats spits 250-0-250 and 6.3VCT.
Is this a good use to have it used here?
Thanks.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 14, 2011, 02:59:36 PM
Would be better for a LA2A project (if you don't want to change to D-AOC PSU)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: 3nity on November 14, 2011, 03:21:05 PM
SOrry its not 250-0-250 but 225-0-225V and not 6.3vct...just 0v-6.3v
Why should i change the psu volker??

Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 14, 2011, 03:32:40 PM
Well, all D-AOCs PSUs are regulated.

6.3V can't be regulated to 6.3V, we need some 9V before the regulator.
you could use AC heaters, but this is not tested.
225-0V could work for the high voltage part, but you waste the 0-225V winding.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: 3nity on November 14, 2011, 03:34:03 PM
is there a toroidal available for this in NA?
Thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: ilfungo on December 16, 2011, 02:41:27 PM
sorry
has anyone tried Perkin Elmer Vactrol to solve problems in stereo?
I read that have better features than the other .... vactrol
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on December 17, 2011, 02:35:50 PM
sorry
has anyone tried Perkin Elmer Vactrol to solve problems in stereo?
I read that have better features than the other .... vactrol
thanks


Sounds interesting! Apparently they ever have different versions with different attack and release times...
Try 'em and let us know!  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on January 09, 2012, 06:48:53 AM
Hi All
I made the mod on the vactrols ,
Anyone can explain me the calibration procedure of the unit ??
Thank you all in advance
Fabio

hello Soeren_DK
I solved using the trimmer 500R on the vactrol + ....
I have another problem ....
when I'm more than half of the input pot   hear saturation ...
can be a power problem?
thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on January 10, 2012, 01:17:53 PM
Finally got to really sit down and try and diagnose my issues. As it stands this is what my unit is doing

1. Acts as a limiter, sort of... at 0db compression there is a 1-2db gain reduction at full "input" and full "output"
2. At 0 compression, there is a permanent difference of about -.5 to -1db from the right channel to the left.
3. In link mode the channels are with in -1db matched, but in mono mode the difference is much larger, upto 6db in some settings.
4. The right channel starts to compress at about the 13 setting on the 23 position switch. The Left channel behaves normal with compression beginning at about the 9th position.

I checked all my voltages and they are correct, I checked the step switches and their values are with in 1% checked all my wiring. I also read all the 55 pages here and only a few times where my issues mentioned but never any solutions posted.

I was thinking to solve the issue of -1db while in 0 compression, to put a small trim pot on the output dial and trim off untill the channels are closely matched... any comments on this?



thanks In advanced for any suggestions...

jsefer!!
I am in the same situation
great sound, but;
without compression, the two channels are out of 0.2 db (I'm happy to analog)
in mono mode, up to 5 dB (compression) = 0.5 db out
in mono mode, up to 10 dB (compression) = 2 db out
in stereo mode, all off.
Vactrol, are always
off (From what I read ............)
HELP!

Hey guys!!! I found a solutio to matching the sections... this is what I PERSONALY DID.... I used the vactrol matching procedure with the trimmers on the vactrols, to match the uncompressed signal, then I compressed it a little bit and I adjusted. I wanted to find a good medium point.

to match the left and right channels, I added a trimmer to one channel on the output pot level, to trim down the desired DBs to match the sections, now my unit is matched +- .02db
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: G-Sun on February 14, 2012, 12:38:05 PM
Thanks silent:arts for a very good overview in the first post!
Are pcb's still for sale? (Couldn't find it listed)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on April 22, 2012, 07:53:16 AM
Has anyone build a unit with electronically balanced I/O?

Would the GSSL (de)balancing circuitry work without modifications?

Also, I've modded mine with the Kubi mod and am running it unbalanced right now. The Threshold is very sensitive (turning the pot a little counterclockwise gets a lot of compression already) - is this normal?

I like the sound of the compressor a lot even running it unbalanced.

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blackout on May 05, 2012, 12:59:59 PM
Hello everybody. I just finished up my other D-AOC and while double checking everything I found some troubling issues. First, a few resistors are reading the wrong values even though the part itself is correct. for example: the R124 & R224 330K resistors both read about 42k. There are others that are WAY off as well. I truly don't understand it. All of the resistors besides the 2watt ones are the brown metal film Vishays, so they are good quality, although it is my fist time using them. Are they easily damaged by heat or something? They have the value printed right on them so its not like they're just misplaced on the board. Second, I am getting voltages that are entirely TOO high. Above 300v all over. The are tubes inserted and when measured at the input terminals I get 9.34vac, 24.9vac, and 260vac. I am using the Edcor XPWR055. On a little side note, the 24v and 9v winding were reversed. 9v was supposed to be orange and 24v yellow, but it ended up the other way when I tested the Xformer. Crappy QC. Anyway, When using the test points and comparing the voltages that were kindly posted by SilentArts mine were way off. I get around 330v on all except R122 which is nearly zero and R127 which correct at 60v. Any Ideas? Something is terribly wrong. The regs ARE isolated from the heatsink, but I get continuity from the LM350t's middle leg and the metal area that screws to the heatsink to the case. I used nylon screws, washers, nuts and thermal paste to attach them if you were wondering. When I use the test points to set the heater voltage it starts up reading correct and soon drops off. The tubes filaments also cease to glow at this point as well.  I reflowed all parts on the board. check all diodes and found one to be off: D14 1n4004. Will replace now and report any changes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will try and include some pics, but just to warn you they will be taken with my phone. I lost the battery charger for my camera. Thanks for any help and even more thanks for such a wonderful circuit.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blackout on May 05, 2012, 01:01:28 PM
Inside:

EDIT: Update..... Replaced D14 1n4004 diode that was measuring off and replaced the resistors that were off. R101 which is lables 15k and has a 15k resistyor in place is still measuring about 500ohm. This happened as soon as I reconected the input xformer molex (ch1). Since is measured fine before that I have to assume the change is due to the these being connected by a trace. If so that will also explain the other resistors that share the same "wrong" reading despite changing the part. Despite all this I am still encountering the same problems with high voltage and heater voltage dropping off after a few seconds. Reg overheating? I'm at a loss right now. any help would be great. Thanks!


*****EDIT:***** I tried removing the tubes and while keeping a meter on Rx28 I proceeded to reinstall one tube at a time. V103 (12au7) then V101(12at7) - correct 242V @ test point while each was in, but as soon as I installed V102 (12au7 closest to faceplate) the voltage started to rise until it was back at about 332v. I tested at both R128 and R228, but there was no difference. I think this is the most significant clue so far , but alas, I don't know what it means as far as where the problem may lie. Also, with ONLY the two tubes in place, the heater voltage stays at a steady 6.3v. It drops as the other voltages rise when the last tube on ch1 is inserted. Grrrrrr.  >:(   :'(   
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blackout on May 06, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
So with the first two tubes on ch1 installed, rhe comp passes audio, the input and output knobs work and I think the compression is working, but it is SUBTLE. No action on the VU no matter how hot a signal I send. For this quick test I ran dynamic mic --> 1073 --> DAOC. Signal was certainly louder and fuller , but without real compression. Most likely due to the last tube not being installed. Since the voltage would spike if the last tube in ch1 was inserted or ANY other tubes in Ch2 that channel would not pass any audio. FYI: I have all the Kubi mods done and i'm not using the bypass boards right now because, well, I don't have any. I plan to get them soon though. Not even thinking about that until this is sorted out. Cheers.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Blackout on May 08, 2012, 08:25:13 AM
Well, it seems this thread is not frequented very often anymore. I removed the board and checked again for bad solder joints, mistaken connections between joints etc and when I powered up again I now have about 240-244v with all the tubes in place. Sigh of relief  ;). But...now the heater voltage is stuck at just above 9v at the test point. Taking measurement at the regulator in on the PCB I can see the voltage adjust down to 6.3v when using the trimmer. I also get that voltage at the + side of the diode and resistor below it as well as on the right leg of the trimmer. But at the test point and at the heaters in the tube sockets I get just over 9v still!  Any clues, ideas or thoughts? I am so close now. Is there some where I can use a resistor to drop the 3v I need to get rid of? Of course I would rather have it work properly. Help a brother out. Thank you and have a great day.
-Blackout Audio & Engineering-


EDIT: This sucks. I now have the high voltage and dropping heater. Didn't change anything to make this happen, but that the deal now. When this happened I replaced the LM350 and the electrolytics in the High Voltage section, but no change. I gues I will try new tubes, but all this blind changing of compnents and such is rather frustrating and not the best way to go about this in my opinion so Im not going to do anything else until I can get some sort of feedback or pointers. Anybody out there? I keep trying , but am not arriving at a sollution. Thanks and hopefully will hear back soon. Cheers.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: G-Sun on May 16, 2012, 09:23:52 AM
Just looking at the units displayed in the first post.
You guy's are making insane good-looking DOACs :) Keep rocking!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jsefer on May 24, 2012, 11:45:59 AM
Well, it seems this thread is not frequented very often anymore. I removed the board and checked again for bad solder joints, mistaken connections between joints etc and when I powered up again I now have about 240-244v with all the tubes in place. Sigh of relief  ;). But...now the heater voltage is stuck at just above 9v at the test point. Taking measurement at the regulator in on the PCB I can see the voltage adjust down to 6.3v when using the trimmer. I also get that voltage at the + side of the diode and resistor below it as well as on the right leg of the trimmer. But at the test point and at the heaters in the tube sockets I get just over 9v still!  Any clues, ideas or thoughts? I am so close now. Is there some where I can use a resistor to drop the 3v I need to get rid of? Of course I would rather have it work properly. Help a brother out. Thank you and have a great day.
-Blackout Audio & Engineering-


EDIT: This sucks. I now have the high voltage and dropping heater. Didn't change anything to make this happen, but that the deal now. When this happened I replaced the LM350 and the electrolytics in the High Voltage section, but no change. I gues I will try new tubes, but all this blind changing of compnents and such is rather frustrating and not the best way to go about this in my opinion so Im not going to do anything else until I can get some sort of feedback or pointers. Anybody out there? I keep trying , but am not arriving at a sollution. Thanks and hopefully will hear back soon. Cheers.


Try checking your voltages with load. The voltage regulators need load to operate properly, if you  check your voltages with out load you might get weird readings.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on May 24, 2012, 01:07:27 PM
When this happened I replaced the LM350 and the electrolytics in the High Voltage section, but no change.

Might be a misunderstanding, but high voltage section needs a TL783 regulator and the heater (6,3V) uses the LM350. Did you check your ground connection? There is a connector next to the LM350 that needs to be connected to main (earth) ground. Trim your heater voltage to 6,3V with all tubes inserted.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 05, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
I just received a stuffed board with one of the Antek power transformers (I'm in the United States). I'm having a little trouble figuring out where the secondaries attach to. It's marked like this:

1. 115V     RED-BLACK
2. 115V     RED-BLACK

1. 250V-0V-250V
YELLOW-WHITE-YELLOW
2. 6.3V
BLUE-BLUE
3. 6.3V-0V-6.3V
BROWN-GRAY-BROWN

I understand that the two red and two black wires go to the IEC plug/switch but I'm confused where the other ones go.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 09, 2012, 06:45:19 AM
Hey guys, I am really struggling with hooking up the power transformer.

http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/AN-1T250.pdf
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on June 09, 2012, 08:30:48 AM
Well referring to Schematic of PSU's your power trasnsfo should do i guess for HT and heater, but won't do for Relay's etc...
You'd need another small transformer for the relay's....

You can just use one 250VAC winding, and one 6.3VAC Winding, Try to avoid having Transformer tips flying around, isolate them. Or parralel both 250VAC and 6.3VAC, will give you same voltage but will double the Current capability.
Up to you.

Maybe this will help? And you can check your connections on the transformer powered up alone, before plugging in the circuit BUT PLEASE BE CAREFULL!!!!!!!!!!

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2450/powertransformerwiring.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on June 09, 2012, 02:40:30 PM
Oh and one important thing, go with the color code written on the toroidal and not the pdf of his specs, maybe it's the same but good practice is to stick with infos ON the transformer
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 09, 2012, 06:16:03 PM
This PSU transformer is better used with a D-LA2A, not with the D-AOC  :(
For both: no relay power etc,

but for the D-AOC the heater just don't fit.
6,3V isn't enough for the (regulated) heater voltage.
2 x 6,3V in series regulated down = a sh*t load of heat

unregulated AC heaters with this: never tested
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 09, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Thank you. I love all of you. I'm going to use this transformer for an LA2A build from you at some later point in time Volker.

Edit: Found this one. http://www.edcorusa.com/p/649/xpwr055_120-240

Does anybody know where I can find one that is not built to order and preferably in the United States? I would like to use this on a session I have in two weeks if possible.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: nielsk on June 10, 2012, 01:12:57 AM
There is no reason why 12 volts can't be regulated down to 6, worse case scenario use a power resistor to drop the voltage a bit. The regulator wants to see at least 9 volts...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 10, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
not build to order, but outside the us:
http://www.musikding.de/Passive-parts/Transformers/Toroidal-transfomer/Toroidal-transformer-230V-250V-9V-24V::1361.html
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zmgwg on June 10, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
hi,
I've got "droping heater voltage with tubes inserted" problem that some people described.
I can have any pair of tubes inserted, but when I insert 4 or 6 the voltage starts to slowly drop.
it can't be solder joint cuz any tube can work but not all at the same time, right? or does it have to do with anything how voltage is distributed between 3 tubes, and I should check for bad solder joint?
power transformer have required 2.5 spec. for 9v, that's for sure.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 11, 2012, 03:05:12 AM
might be the regulator needs better cooling?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zmgwg on June 11, 2012, 03:55:47 AM
could that be the issue?? voltage slowly dropping when it's not cooled properly?
I have 6.3v without tubes inserted. I've used heatsink size printed on pcb, so it may be it, but I though there was some people that had luck with heatsink this size or did everyone upgrade to the bigger recommended size?
you can feel heat over regulator with pair of tubes for sure!
with ether pair of ecc82s voltage is stable, pair of ecc81 voltage drops in few minutes, and with all the tubes voltage drops to 0.40v in like 6 seconds.

what would happen if there was short from regulator to heatsink, because I'm not quite sure of insulation I used there?

I didn't leave much space for bigger heatsink, would chassis mounted be better?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on June 11, 2012, 04:42:58 AM
That looks like a thermal shut down. The regulator MUST be isolated from ground. Not only do you need a small isolation washer (plastic film) between regulator and heatsink, but also an isolation for the srew that fixes the regulator to the heat sink. Use heat conductive paste between regulator and heatsink! If you haven´t switched on power for too long, there is a good chance that the regulator is still working, provided you have a proper isolation and cooling.
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zmgwg on June 11, 2012, 05:00:13 AM
I have isolation kit with piece of plastic and this thing for the screw, It's just that it doesn't fit nicely with hole in the heatsink so I thought it might be it.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zmgwg on June 13, 2012, 04:43:36 AM
it works now with bigger heatsink! when I was desoldering regulator some traces piled off (!) I redid them with some wires in a really nasty way... but it work! :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 13, 2012, 10:33:25 AM
the main thing is: it works now  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 15, 2012, 05:14:09 AM
I'm still having some problems, but I got the heaters to work with the Antek transformer! It seems to be extremely stable which is really good news! I ordered the Edcor transformer but in the meantime I still want to get this working with the Antek. Maybe somebody can help me.

I'm not completely sure how to hook up the secondaries to the main psu. The lines are 250-0-250. I've tried hooking each 250 line to each pin in that section, and then I've tried soldering the two 250 lines together and hooking that to one pin, and then the 0 center tap line to the other pin. When I do it the first way, my R1 gets super hot, starts glowing and smokes. When I hook it up the second way, my fuse (which is 2 amps) shorts. I might be able to help narrow the problem down to something. I've noticed that I get continuity between the ground pad that is by the 350 regulator, to many of the components (resistors, the vactorols, and the tube holders). This happens even when I have the pcb board taken out of the case not hooked up to anything else. I can't see any problems with the soldering. I tried ungrounding the TL783 using a insulator pad in between it and the heatsink and I also used a nylon screw and nut. Are there any tests that I can perform to try and narrow this down? Where would you guys start looking first?

I took some pictures that might be able to give somebody a clue. I'm pretty stumped. Let me know if you guys need any other pictures or any other angles.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2qb56b7.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/241jiw0.jpg)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/14e77ki.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zmgwg on June 15, 2012, 05:58:20 AM
my power transformer, which I've ordered to specs, show 120V on each of 2 250 connections  - I guess it should be like that.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pachi2007 on June 15, 2012, 06:44:27 AM
Hi. These are my V´s:

133V-189V
109V-236V
222V-219V
62V-98V
243V-243V

Tried to re-heat some resistors so far ´cos I don´t really know where to start looking. Resistor values are correct. Regulation is fine too.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 16, 2012, 04:20:32 AM
All righty. I've almost got this figured out. Got the voltage working on the main psu! It's passing audio and it sounds amazing! One issue I'm having is that without the tubes, the voltage in the heaters is set at 6.3V, but once I put the tubes in, I can't get the voltage above 5.79V. Not sure why, maybe somebody can give me some advice.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 17, 2012, 05:41:07 AM
Muwahahahahaha. It's all working and sounds great. I had the heaters hooked up wrong and then when I finally hooked them up correctly, they went into thermal shutdown. I mounted the 350 on a HUGE heatsink and made sure not to ground it and it's working like a thing of beauty. I've still got to replace my linear pots with log pots but after that, I cannot wait to start using this thing.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 17, 2012, 01:06:35 PM
congrats. post us some finished pics  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on June 19, 2012, 07:20:05 AM
(http://i49.tinypic.com/24gkdxw.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2ikw0et.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/28irl2w.jpg)

I worked on this with my friends who I would not have been able to do it without! We made the case out of an old 90s Mitsubishi 5 disc CD player that I found at Goodwill for $15. It was the perfect size. Bought a faceplate for a 3U rack at my local electronics store for about $9. Gutted the CD player and drilled holes in the faceplate with my friend's drill press. Used a belt sander on the faceplate to take off the black paint and give it that look. Used painters tape, spraypaint and a French curve to get the stripe as close to perfect as possible. Had my friend who has handwriting like a robot, write all of the labels. We let it sit for about a week but then it started rusting pretty badly so we had to sand it down again (tried getting the rust off with alcohol, vinegar, and clr but it just wouldn't come off). Then we sprayed it with Krylon Acrylic Lacquer. We did it outside so it didn't finish as flat as we would have liked since it was night time and there was condensation in the air but it still looks great. Named it Chris after my drummer because he is a badass and it will hopefully make everything sound as good as he makes everything sound when he plays drums.

Edor WSM input and output transformers. Antek power transformer. (f**k if I know that 250-0-250 actually means 500 total volts in between!) Made a custom slope switch pcb to allow switching between nothing, blue led, anti blue led, red led, 100k resistor and 1k resistor.

Still gotta make sure that the slope switch works properly (does it matter that there is a second vactoral installed on the pcb already?) and I need to change the threshold to a log pot, but it's passing audio. I might mount a fan to the big heatsink with the LM350. It just seems a little warm, but I want to make sure that it doesn't overheat if I push it hard. Oh yeah, and we need to cut out some air vents on the side of the case and put some mesh covering for more ventilation.

Thanks for all of the helps guys! I still need to try running it through my console to see how it sounds on my tape machine. I'll report back!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on October 07, 2012, 08:48:50 AM
I finally finished mine!

Lundahl LL1540 wired as 1:2 on the input
Lundahl LL1540 wired reversed as 2:1 on the output
Most of the kubicki mods. Second vactrol for soft setting, blue led for hard setting
I have a 500 ohm trimmer in series with each of the 4 vactrols. I really needed these to optimize the compression in stereo mode.
Replaced R1 (2 watt 470R) by 2 parallel 25 watt 1K resistors! Just to make sure it doesn't overheat :-)
Front panel made by Frank from nrgrecordings.de
Meters are old AKAI meters I bought from a member (Sahib?) here a while ago. (painted black)
assembled stepped switches from eBay

A big thanks to all who contributed to this great compressor!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on October 07, 2012, 08:49:42 AM
another proud pic!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on October 07, 2012, 08:51:52 AM
and inside
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on October 07, 2012, 10:08:06 AM
Nice compressor, Pieter!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 07, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
Wow - looking good  8) 8) 8)
LL1540 - interesting choice!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Kingston on October 07, 2012, 01:59:43 PM
Holy crap wow what a front panel design!  :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 10, 2012, 06:29:57 PM
I'd love to snag one of these PCB if anyone has, or if there's any rumor of another run?  Hint hint...   8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2012, 01:00:11 AM
Just completed the initial build and test on my D-AOC  :)

Used once again my fav combo of Carnhill 4:1 (10K:600) transformers and Jensen 1:4 (2.4K:38K4) input transformers as well as a 3RU with 4 VU meters for both output level and GR.

PSU traffo was Musikding and tubes are EH au7 and at7. The output caps are ebay 'audiophilers', which are pretty cheap and like solen knockoffs. They work as well as anything else I've tried.
(never been able to pick the sound of caps very much)

Added hard relay bypass, JLM vu buffer amps and did a switched ratio/threshhold mod on a rotary+dpdt switch to provide 'soft', 'hard1', 'hard2', 'hard3' and 'out' settings.
They consist of the common mods of 100K, blue led anti parallel, 100R, red led parallel and no mod in circuit as the 'out' position.

The settings all seem to work as expected, so far. I figured I didn't need the second vactrol in parallel as the blue anti parallel effectively provides the fw rectification setting as described by Kubi. I wasn't sure if you could do the mods as well as Kubi's antiparallel vactrol mod.

I'll be doing some more experimental mods on the network, but for now it works well.

Noise performance is very good with unity gain noise at GR of 15dBu of around -75dBu on the RTA aggregated from 20Hz-48KHz. The RTA channel loopback is -83dBu and is calibrated using my CRO and true RMS meters to the best that I can for absolute voltage on the dBU scale.

Frequency response is ruler flat from 10Hz and -3dB down at 25KHz.  At 20KHz it is -1.9dB down.
About as good as I can get  :)

Problem was a fake LM350T - it craps out at 1.5A at 6.35V for an input of 10.5Vdc.
At the required 1.8A, it drops to 5.44V and who knows what current?
The unit does still work but noise goes to hell and a bunch of operating points are all over the place.

Checked the reg case temp to be 65C which is well below what I would expect for current limiting at the onset of thermal shutdown. Also tried reducing the voltage differential to reduce the dissipated power and no cigar.

The reg is a fake!  Taking one sidechain tube out sorts the unit performance completely to expected. So, I need to get me some genuine LM350Ts to complete the box.

Other thing is I need to drop the B+ quite a bit - my HV are around 40V too high.
Looks like HV current is around 26.5mA per channel, so I need to up my HV feeding resistances accordingy.

The rest was all good off the bat.

Thanks to Volker and Analag for the cool designs and manufacturing.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2012, 01:00:39 AM
GR tests show it is pretty easy to attain max of 29dBu in the hardest limiting mode.

I may tweak a little because I think even with 1:4 step up, it takes the Input knob to be more or less full up to achieve major GR. I also think it could use more makeup gain, so I may mess about some there too.

In use - quiet, extended bandwidth all the way up and down.

I would characterise the GR as ... SMOOTH ......  VERY SMOOTH ...  ;)

Virtually transparent. Very little 'tube-ness' I can discern. The amp characteristic is CLEAN AS  :)

Compared to the D-LA2A, I can't hear the release virtually at all - seems fairly slow to let go, whereas the D-LA2A is quite fast in comparison.

Compared to the Poorman 670, it is virtually inaudible GR and super clean, with a reasonably fast attack and reasonably slow release. The 670 is like a crunchy granola suite with super noticable attack and release, they way I have it setup. That one remains my fav. tracking limiter.

I think this is a great candidate for a mastering limiter (with some careful attention to channel matching and so on. The hardest part of all !)

I think I can improve the noise performance a little and may tailor the threshold/ratio some more.

So far, quite happy and this fills in a spot in my system for a super clean and transparent but brutishly squashing limiter.

Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2012, 02:00:28 AM
While on the subject of doacs and such :

Apart from exploring further the thresh/ratio curves with the various mods people have discussed, I will also be experimenting with the input atten, bias and feedback on the input tube first stage .

I think I prefer less clean and more hair/gain :).

In addition,  reducing the input tube second stage feedback from output traffo primary for less linearity, more gain.

I'll be trying a 2:1 turns ratio on output (2K4:600) for increased gain. I think the line amp should handle the lower Z fine, being an AU7 CF (with active, ac noise cancelling load - dc coupled wcf? sort of thing).

I can always return to the stock arrangements if I want. I'll do one channel and compare with the other as I go.

-----

Also, just finishing up a 'What Compressor', which is a discrete op amp based vactrol limiter with transformers all round.

Be very interesting to compare them - I'm thinking they will sound quite similar, with the What comp having the added flexibility of time constant control. I expect it will be very clean, like the stock doac, so the What comp will complement my system if I succeed in making the doac hairier and somewhat more stinky  >:(

[My other mastering limiter is a Finalizer Plus     ;D]

It uses the vtl5c9 vactrol, as opposed to the doac's vtl5c4/2 vactrols - what diff will it make? Who knows :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2012, 11:04:06 PM
One other good thing about this project - I've started writing a test tool which generates the transfer function graph for a compressor/limiter function.

Input dBu vs Output dBu with amplitude sweep  with some knobs for adjusting min/max input levels, sweep time and profile. That sort of thing.  Maybe even some freq domain stuff if I get really motivated.

Doing it as a Labview application using windows sound card interface and hoping to target the Win7 runtime environment so it can run without any special whatchamcallits.

I'll see how it goes :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on October 19, 2012, 12:55:03 PM
Lundahl LL1540 wired as 1:2 on the input
Lundahl LL1540 wired reversed as 2:1 on the output
Most of the kubicki mods. Second vactrol for soft setting, blue led for hard setting
I have a 500 ohm trimmer in series with each of the 4 vactrols. I really needed these to optimize the compression in stereo mode.
Replaced R1 (2 watt 470R) by 2 parallel 25 watt 1K resistors! Just to make sure it doesn't overheat :-)
Front panel made by Frank from nrgrecordings.de
Meters are old AKAI meters I bought from a member (Sahib?) here a while ago. (painted black)
assembled stepped switches from eBay

Apparently there were some more questions...
The front panel is made with Front Design. The font is DIN17, but wit the X-cale set to 1,5.
The knobs are these ones from Farnell: http://be.farnell.com/mentor/476-61/knob-high-torque/dp/1282528?Ntt=1282528 (http://be.farnell.com/mentor/476-61/knob-high-torque/dp/1282528?Ntt=1282528)
(But, the top inlay is grey, which is really ugly. I sprayed them black.)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on October 30, 2012, 12:03:11 AM
If I wanted to go transformerless on the inputs, could I leave everything the same and just go straight to the xlr's? Or would I have to change some capacitor values?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 09, 2012, 12:38:53 AM
Continuing my efforts with this most interesting compressor unit ...

I subbed in a genween LM350T in place of ebay fake and voila, all good wrt heaters and such.
Changed a couple of dropping resistors in the low voltage circuit with some higher power ones too.

After some quick checks, I confirmed my previous performance figures - unity gain noise floor at typical setting gives me a noise floor of around -74dBu (an averaged figure as reported by my RTAS 20Hz to 50KHz) vs a loopback noise floor of -80dBu for my Motu 828MkII test setup.

50Hz component < -100dBu, 100Hz component < -85dBu

The Motu is calibrated to the limit of my capability for the dBu standard with 600R load and absolute voltages. I use a combination of my CRO, DMM and some high quality iso transformers for this task.

Freq response is -1dB at 20Hz and -1.8 dB at 24KHz and very flat.  Square waves are good and clean. Distortion is quite low.

Variation fro chnA to chnB is around 0.3dB maximum across the available makeup gain range.

All in all the no Gain Reduction performance is very nice indeed.


-----------

So, I turned my attention to the sidechain. First I measured the dc levels and then the ac levels of the various bits of the sidechain amp.

Very nice - both channels virtually identical in ac performance. In dc, currents were less than a mA or so different across the channels with 2V or so max difference in hv.

All very good.  I noted the gain stage of the sidechain has a bias of 3.75Vdc and a current of 5mA more or less. Gain was x8.2

The cathode of the sidechain cathode follower sits at 140Vdc or so and a current of 6.3mA or so. Gain was 0.92

Total sidechain current is around 11.3mA. Overall gain was around x7.5

So I would expect around 7Vpp in and 56Vpp out of the gain stage without clipping and a cf swing of 165Vpp or so max to feed the dc coupled vactrol.

I measured  something like 86Vpp out of the gain stage before visible clipping/rounding. The CF is of course capable of more than that.

------

Having established the sidechain dc and ac were working well and virtually identical across the channels with no Gain Reduction occuring, I set about to look at the vactrol circuit including the mods I started up with - basically a 4 position switch with an on/off inline with it, the whole thing across the single vactrol + and - terminals.

When the on/off switch is open, the 'response' circuit I did is not in-circuit. There is virtually no GR because the stock vactrol arrangement requires a ton of level to get it to squeeze.

When the on/off switch is closed, the 'response' circuit is in parallel ith the vactrol and has an effect.

I used 'soft' (100K resistor), 'hard1', (parallel blue led), 'hard 2' (1K resistor), 'hard3' (anti parallel red led).

The positions all seemed to work and all seems to be fine. Now to look closer at the curves.


----------------

For my tests, I decided on an input maximum which result in the sidechain signal at it's more or less unclipped  max - 86Vdc.  I reason there is no need to run a distorted sidechain before the vactrol.

I have a useful range on my motu RTAS of 12dBu max output, so I set that as my maximum level into the doac. I then adjusted the input knob to give max unclipped sidechain (position '2' of 10,  GR set to 'off'), leaving the 'compression' at max (I will vary the RTAS output level).

I then set the Level knob for +3 VU on the meter, which is a reasonable 'max power' level :)

----

So now, to start at +12dBu at the RTAS output and vary down, noting the gains and GR and so on as I go.

I'm writing a tool to do this, so I wanted to play about with some methods and see what makes sense. I mean, performance of a compressor is very dependant on operating levels !

-----

So the fun begins. I should say this is what I measure - I try to understand it as I go and later after I've thought about it all for a while, I usually see the flaws with my methods  :)

First thing I look at is the waveshapes and amplitudes at the vactrol + terminal.


'Off'                                   shows a clean sine wave, huge amplitude (max before clip)
'Soft'     (100K resistor)     shows a clean sine wave, quite large amplitude
'Hard1'  (blue parallel led)   shows a clean sine wave, even larger amplitude
'Hard2'  (1K resistor)         shows a positive peak clipped sine wave, quite small amplitude
'Hard 3' (red antipara led)  shows a positive and negative clipped sine wave, quite small amplitude

All of them showed strong compression availability. The on/off completely removed any GR.

--------

Some of the questions I have so far are :

- why would a really large sine wave vactrol signal result in no GR?  (in the 'off' setting)
- why would a large sine wave give less GR than the smaller, clipped waves ('soft' vs 'hard')

basically trying to understand what waveshapes give rise to what GR?

The vactrol resistance is a shunt to ground, so low resistance means max GR. High resistance means min GR.

Vactrol resistance is low when input current is high and vactrol resistance is high when input current is low.

So more current = more GR.  (I assume more current = more light)

I suppose the situation is this - the sidechain signal is applied to the vactrol led - the amount of light and hence the GR produced, is proportional to the rms current of the waveform.

Then there's also dc voltages at the vactrol - I measured some there in all cases. I need to look at this more closely. Diodes rectify and thereby produce dc levels and so on. But still not what I expected :)

At that point I realise things aren't really what I think they are and start measuring in more detail.

:)


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 09, 2012, 02:28:45 AM
If I wanted to go transformerless on the inputs, could I leave everything the same and just go straight to the xlr's? Or would I have to change some capacitor values?

First thing is you would need to ensure you don't have dc at the input to the doac - a transformer coupled version would not as the transformer does not pass dc.

Next thing would be the levels - the stock doac uses 1:1 transformer, so that's the starting point.
I use 1:4 step up transformers and think that is a good place to be, so maybe you would think about providing some gain at your transformerless inputs.

That's basically it, apart from input impedances. The stock unit uses 10K:10K transformer, so that's a good place to start. Make sure your driving device is OK with a 10K load (which most things are).

Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 09, 2012, 07:05:48 PM
So it seems that with respect to the vactrol + terminal waveform :

- wave form has a negative dc offset  which gets more negative as the waveform becomes larger
- wave form positive going peak maxes out at 2V above 0Vdc  - the Vf of the vactol led
  (spec sheet says 1.65V typ, 2.0V @20mA)

  ie. waveform grows downwards from +Vf line as the sidechain signal amplitude increases

- smaller waveform amplitude means more GR (smaller negative dc offset)

- resistors in parallel reduce the amplitude of the waveform (and -ve dc bias)

- led added antiparallel (lights up) does clamping at the -Vf of the added led
  This reduces the amplitude of the negative going peak by clamping
  (and therefore reduces dc offset voltage)
  thereby dramatically increasing GR

- led added parallel (no light up) doesn't clamp
  increases amplitude as compared to the modes with resistance
  (and therefore increases dc offset)
   thereby dramatically decreasing GR

- led added parallel (no light up) waveform amplitude is still smaller than the stock vactrol case
  therefore still some GR but much less than antiparallel or resistance cases

- correlation between amplitudes of the sidechain signal and GR achieved is good
  ie. sidechain reduces 10dB in amplitude, GR measured at RTAS is 10dB
      so it seems to be scaled in a useful way

Still somewhat confused - small amplitude clipped waveforms give high GR.
Large amplitude sine waves give least GR but will do so when they are very large.

Kind of like average energy in the waveform - more clipped is more energy is more GR at low amplitudes. Less clipped is lower energy in the waveform, needing more amplitude for GR.
When the clean  sinewaves start to get big enough, they begin to clip and the GR quickly increases.

I guess the lower voltage waveforms being able to produce large GR means the currents are high but the load is low - hence small voltage waveforms but large current waveforms.

I wish I could monitor the current thru the vactrol directly - but I don't want to hack things up :)

Also, I note the parallel led case has pooped a couple of leds.
I think I may not use this mode. Doesn't seem too useful over the cases with resistors in parallel.

Instead, I'm now using 100K, white led antiparallel, 1K, red led antiparallel.

Also, I see that an antiparallel vactrol is the same as an antiparallel led in general.

Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 09, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
On the subject of calibration and left-right matching, some really great results.

As I said, the ac and dc matching of the sidechains was pretty good without any special efforts.

Measuring the GR, input and output levels across the different modes and at different GRs, inputs and outputs shows everything to be very, very close and as expected.

I can say the left-right performance is the best I've ever seen in my diy compressors by a long shot.
This is using bog standard pots and so on.

I measure around 0.3dB max deviation across channels in output level at the RTAS in any case.
And that is mostly a mismatch in the signal amp, not the side chain. The side chain signals were coming out near identical.

And the meters are also lining up really, really well.

So this unit for sure could be lined up for repeatability in a mastering context.

If I can improve the noise floor by 3dB or so I would say this would be my mastering compressor ;)

But having said that, I note the measured noise floor does not depend on output level, so the actual SNR is quite good as you can apply max gain make up without incurring a noise penalty.

----------

Not sure why but there it is. I have seen it like this a few times on other units.

The other thing regarding the noise floor is that it is absolutely rock solid - no 'twitchiness' or oscillations at all.
Which is all very good. I think the little extra noise I see at 100Hz component is due to my long wires for the seperate  VU meters.

Even so, the 50Hz component is vanishingly small and the 100Hz component very small. I would characterise the noise performance as very good. Certainly no hint of any audible or even generally measurable noise.

----

Well, now it is to the studio for listening and using for a while, until I get my measurement application running :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 10, 2012, 05:04:34 AM
Great stuff Alex  8)

Added a link to your articles to the first post  ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 10, 2012, 05:50:43 AM
Thanks for that Volker.

I've been surely impressed with performance as well as challenged in understanding the operation of this very nice unit.

ps - Could I have my pic added to your list ? (there's one back a few posts)  I'd very much like to  ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 10, 2012, 06:02:02 AM
done :D
must have missed this  >:(
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on December 13, 2012, 05:22:57 AM
Has anybody considered putting Neve 1166 transformers on the output? I'm considering putting the EA-1166s.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on December 16, 2012, 04:22:51 AM
Here my new beast....smooth comp with a choice of irons.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on December 16, 2012, 04:23:50 AM
and inside.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on December 16, 2012, 06:25:26 AM
Wow!! Thats the most sophisticated D-AOC I´ve ever seen here in this forum. Unbelievable lot of options. Beautiful !! You must love it!!
regards
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on December 16, 2012, 08:17:28 AM
Really nice indeed!  8)
What did you use on the output? At least if you used the choice of tranny's on the input.
I have mine running with lundahls and I absolutely still LOVE this compressor! Really smooth and warm sound without really hearing what is going on.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 16, 2012, 11:41:27 AM
WOW  8) 8) 8) 8)
speechless ...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on December 16, 2012, 12:16:18 PM
As on the front panel you can choose and combine all the irons, in in as on out: Lundahl, Haufe and Carnhill.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 16, 2012, 12:33:25 PM
crazy  :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on December 17, 2012, 05:26:28 AM
protools, very nice build. Inspiring here and there  ;)
Tell us a little bit about your channel matching. Do you have some measurement results?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on December 17, 2012, 06:04:10 PM
I am not a genius....so inspiring is the only way to do a project like this.... You have done al before me on the forum, so nothing news to balance the channel as a trimmer in series to the vactron, just mounted on a separate protoboard and not on the main pcb. At the moment no specific measurement, just my ears to say, smooth, nice low end and absolutely transparent also if pushed hard. A nice glue effect. Thanks to all for the....inspiration!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on December 29, 2012, 09:49:46 PM
A few months now of usage and my respect for this unit has grown alot.

The combination of atom smashing gain reduction levels as well as amazing transparency has made it my new favourite for guitars.

Acoustic and bass.

One place where it really stands out is for the Rick 12 string semi - a beautiful instrument but a complete d*ck to play and record. I love it and hate it. Simultaneously.

Physically it's difficult to play and even harder to tune. I just did some maintenance on it and redid the bridge and intonation and all that.

Electrically it's all over the place, dynamics wise. Booming bottom end hard to control pickups as well as delicate but easily shrill top end. A horrible combination, really.

Well the d-aoc really tames the sound beautifully. 12db+ of GR and still all the highs are there and the mandolin-like harmonics all all coming thru - without the brutish thump in the bottom end. I can actually dial in a great tone without everything all bashing into itself.

Really gets me a lot closer to Mr McGuin.

D-AOC - my new goto compressor for all manner of guitars!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: imo on February 08, 2013, 02:07:01 PM
I have a question regarding the groundplane.
I moved the lm350, but in doing so borked the pcb, so had to do a bit of dremeling to break the groundplane. With the DC heaters, do i have the H+ voltage going to pins 4-5 on each tube, and 9 as the ground reference? It seems to be that way, but i couldn't tell from the schematic or layout and wanted to be sure.
BTW, definitely mount this off board if you haven't. Mine had almost melted through the board when i checked.
Thanks
Ian
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: imo on February 08, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
got it. 9v is the ground ref.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: imo on February 09, 2013, 04:13:25 AM
So wanted to say, i had to do some work on the AOC. I had a few resistors(mainly the 22k's) that were getting off colored from heat. Those 1/2w are barely enough in some places. Also, as i said before, the underside of the board was getting pretty toasted. It was a task getting the big heatsink off the board, thus extensive dremel use, but i got it mounted to the case-much better. I also took the meter lights off of the heater voltage(don't know why i wired it like that in the first place) and instead did a string of LED's for meter illumination.
Anyhow, since i had to take it apart, i decided to do some of the "Kubi" mods. I switched C2 and C5, and put a 2.5u cap in C4! I placed it where i can change it if it is too much. I've gotta say though, it sounds amazing! I am using Lundahl 1521s on the input and the Edcor on the output. The Lundahls don't have the step up but i didn't feel like buying any more transformers for the time being.
Right now i have super bright led AP(anti-parallel), red led AP, 10k, 100k, and super bright Parallel. I am thinking of simplifying the switch.
Also have tried to match the tubes, which are no more that 1-2 volts at any point.
I am going to run some AC tests in the next couple of days.
Also thinking about putting switches instead of the pots.
I want to echo Alex and say that it kills on things like 12 strings, drums buss, etc. It has a nice way of catching transients that is very "opto" but obviously much faster than an LA2A
Ian
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Scrappersa on February 09, 2013, 05:13:07 AM
So wanted to say, i had to do some work on the AOC. I had a few resistors(mainly the 22k's) that were getting off colored from heat. Those 1/2w are barely enough in some places. Also, as i said before, the underside of the board was getting pretty toasted. It was a task getting the big heatsink off the board, thus extensive dremel use, but i got it mounted to the case-much better. I also took the meter lights off of the heater voltage(don't know why i wired it like that in the first place) and instead did a string of LED's for meter illumination.
Anyhow, since i had to take it apart, i decided to do some of the "Kubi" mods. I switched C2 and C5, and put a 2.5u cap in C4! I placed it where i can change it if it is too much. I've gotta say though, it sounds amazing! I am using Lundahl 1521s on the input and the Edcor on the output. The Lundahls don't have the step up but i didn't feel like buying any more transformers for the time being.
Right now i have super bright led AP(anti-parallel), red led AP, 10k, 100k, and super bright Parallel. I am thinking of simplifying the switch.
Also have tried to match the tubes, which are no more that 1-2 volts at any point.
I am going to run some AC tests in the next couple of days.
Also thinking about putting switches instead of the pots.
I want to echo Alex and say that it kills on things like 12 strings, drums buss, etc. It has a nice way of catching transients that is very "opto" but obviously much faster than an LA2A
Ian

I did those same Kubi mods. I think the reason I wasn't completely thrilled with mine was because of the second vactoral. I took it out and put in a slope switch with blue led, red led, reversed blue led, and a couple of resistors (can't remember which ones off the top of my head), and I love it so so much more. I think the second vactoral was just a bit too much. I love having the option of the slope, and I love when I turn it all the way, it really saturates. I think it would sound even better without the edcors though. How do you like the Lundahls on the inputs? I always figured I would change the output transformer, but I'm wondering what would have a more pronounced effect on the sound.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Holger on February 09, 2013, 12:02:31 PM
... and at D-AOC number 5 you get a free D-AOC shirt ;D ;D ;D :D

Volker, be prepared. I've recently finished #4: 4 RU, 350 mm deep, my first one with two meters. Size does matter...
Noise @-88 dBu (at uni gain settings) S/N 92/94 dBu, depending on your reference level, measured with my Neutrik Minilyzer.
Excellent frequency response. Kubi mods, Carnhill 9600:600 transformers. Stereo link works very well. My first build with operating hours counter.

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/front-1.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/detail.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/rear-det.jpg)

Nice combo:

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/tube-combo.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: pH on February 09, 2013, 07:49:18 PM
Holy crap Holger! When are you gonna open your faceplate store?!?
Beautiful.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: imo on February 10, 2013, 12:28:32 AM
I never went with the second vactrol. I like the different characteristics of the LED's, reverse LEDS, and resistors. Not sure what the unit sounds like with any other input trannies as i've had the Lundahls the whole time. The cap switch(ala Kubi) was the biggest shift for me.
I remember reading that the OT in this design wasn't a big change to the sound due to design, though i can't add to that.
I'm still slightly out of balance with the threshold levels when not engaged in stereo link. The right side seems more sensitive. DC levels are pretty similar, and so far AC levels as well. I think i may have mismatches on the switches with the paralleled LED's
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rob_gould on February 22, 2013, 09:21:19 AM
... and at D-AOC number 5 you get a free D-AOC shirt ;D ;D ;D :D

Volker, be prepared. I've recently finished #4: 4 RU, 350 mm deep, my first one with two meters. Size does matter...
Noise @-88 dBu (at uni gain settings) S/N 92/94 dBu, depending on your reference level, measured with my Neutrik Minilyzer.
Excellent frequency response. Kubi mods, Carnhill 9600:600 transformers. Stereo link works very well. My first build with operating hours counter.

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/front-1.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/detail.jpg)

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/rear-det.jpg)

Nice combo:

(http://audiofor.tv/diy/ProjectFotoFolder/otc4/tube-combo.jpg)

Oh my oh my!  Holger, that is a fine piece of work!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 22, 2013, 09:27:40 AM
Since Holger can't reach number 5 without PCBs I ordered some more today  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on February 22, 2013, 07:43:23 PM
Holger - awesome!!

That's some very, very impressive build and layouts.

I used mine on the piano for a few weeks - I very much like the passive/aggressive nature of opto comp in general for instruments.
But it is mainly for guitars, especially bass.

I have it connected last in a relay bypassable chain of transformer DI and  api-312 style pre -> PeterC api style EQs -> DoaC.
Has a lot there for sure. It remains probably my most used path in my 'studio' room.

I replaced it with a discrete traffo opto, a 'What Comp' 1RU build  I did.

Sure enough, it sounded really very good and has transformed the outputs of my old K2000.
It's outputs are a little weak and unbalanced. The WHat Comp just instantly gave it it's youth back.
That's not moving out of there in a hurry. The Rhodes samples just incredible.
All the hifreq stuff amongst the dirty rhodes audible the first time in years.

Its really good. I may well see if I can add a Blend control to the DOAC.

I just want to have a tool completed that can do transfer functions automatically.
Those  different sidechain options are pretty profound in their effects. Be nice to see them graphically  :)e

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on February 27, 2013, 02:45:48 AM
Well I finally got a front panel made so many thanks for the help from a local forum member so I'm finishing off my build, the longest ever I reckon :-\

Done a quick test by using a tone generator & sound is getting through fine & the compressor works, I knew the voltages were OK from when I powered it up before & it didn't blow up 2  years back!!! 

I'm just wondering if the Edcor i/o  transformer pins (marked 2 or 6 C.T.) need to be grounded to chassis on the side that goes to & from the board, like the 3 pin connections  on the sides going to & from the XLR connections are?

Once I finish I'll post some pictures for your amusement!!!  :o

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: braeden on February 27, 2013, 05:30:09 AM
Holger those units are absolutely incredible.
I hope you don't mind me stealing some of your great front panel ideas ;)

Braeden
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on March 01, 2013, 08:05:47 AM
My DAOC is up & running but I don't like the Edcors, I've got WSM 600/10K on the imputs & these sound fine without connecting up output transformers but then connecting the WSM 10K/600 on outputs makes this compressor sound tinny like everything below 1K has gone missing  :(

There's a pair of Carnhill  line outs 9600K / 600 just arrived in the post  ;D I'll try them when I get back home tonight!!!!!

Just wondering how to connect these up, I assume I bridge some pins together 2-4 & 6-7 like on the EZ1290 builds but do I still need the 1K5 resistor & .01uf cap across the ouput leads?  http://s3.amazonaws.com/EZ1290/assembly3.pdf (http://s3.amazonaws.com/EZ1290/assembly3.pdf)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on March 01, 2013, 04:38:40 PM
Something is definitely wrong with the hookup if Edcor 10K:600 on outputs is missing below 1K.

That's just not .. natural.

I would check that again - these units don't use the CT connections on the Edcors so just leave them unconnected.

The Edcor 10K:600 I initially tried in the DOAC worked fine - full frequency response and all that.

I replaced it with a Carnhill 9600:600 because I prefer it. I think the sound is 'smoother' and less 'grainy' at the top end.
Have done this a number of times and am happy.

Perhaps you might think about subbing the inputs away from Edcor to something else. I never much cared for the XSM in the input position for various reasons, not least because unshielded. I used Jensens in 1:4 and would say that ratio is the minimum imho.

Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: trancedental on March 02, 2013, 09:06:55 AM
Thanks AlexC

I've taken the XSM's away from my inputs now as well, as using them the sound was still not as full sounding as running unbalanced,  compared with the original sound.  The CT connections didn't make any difference.

Now the DAOC sounds really good & even when compression is turned off the sounds of the valves really enhance the material being played.

I've got some old Brimar 6060 "Yellow T" military ECC81's on the input & Mullard ECC82's on the output valves, sidechain's  are just some cheap chinese ECC82's but they're not part of the signal chain I'm assuming, just like a vibrato tube on a guitar amp! Maybe I'm wrong ?

The Carnhill's line outs have just gone in & all my sound has come back and more  ;D Running a quick stem mix off the desk from a TSR8, sounds great & even better with compression, heavy compression & the sound is still there, big, detailed & with the beefiest low mids, you all know what I mean!! I left the cap & resistor across the XLR pins out, I would guess they were for oscillation prevention? Don't hear any of that problem at all.

I'm not sure about putting input transformers in here now, might be too much thickness & warmth for using on a mix with the valves adding to the sound?

Don't know why the Edcors sound like tin cans, LOL!! inputs & outputs were the same. they seem to test OK so I haven't got a clue what the problem is?

Just got to tidy it all up but here's a photo!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: nashkato on March 08, 2013, 03:18:20 PM
has anybody tried the Lundahl LL5402 on output ?
should be possible with prim in series and output parallel ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: braeden on March 09, 2013, 06:30:08 PM
Could anyone recommend a set of transformers (input & output)? I was going to go with Jensen but after sending them an email a week ago I still haven't received a reply ???

If I was to go with Carnhill or Sowter which transformers are suitable? At the moment I have VTB9046 as the input transformer and VTB9122 for the output, is this correct and how is the VTB9046 mounted?

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: braeden on March 11, 2013, 03:40:06 AM
I decided on Sowter 1290 for the Output TX and Sowter 8540 for the Input TX.

I'm going to mount them to the rear panel. The 1290 has a threaded grommet with flying leads and the 8540 will plug into an 8-pin octal socket on the rear.

This is my first time building a D-AOC. I've decided on a 4U enclosure from Modushop with 89.9mm diameter vintage style Simpson VU meters.

Jan (mistadchan) is selling a whole lot of great kit and I managed to obtain a Blue D-AOC board from him.
I discovered soon enough that there are H/W bypass boards available, he sent these to me at no extra cost so big thumbs up to him there.

I'll be using JJ matched & balanced tubes (I thought I'd pay a little bit extra, although it probably won't make much audible difference).

Mundorf Supreme capacitors in the circuit with the standard Solen Fast DC blocking capacitors you see on most D-AOC.

Let's hope it all goes according to plan!
I may start a build thread... ::)

Braeden


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on March 22, 2013, 03:59:22 AM
just out of curiosity.
When you switch on the D-AOC the meters go to 0 right away, but after a few seconds the meters drop a few DB and then go back to 0 again.
What is causing that? is it a cap charging?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: braeden on May 12, 2013, 09:27:37 PM
Quick question

I recently fired up my D-AOC. I initially connected the primary windings around the wrong way (I am using the Musikding transformer). The yellow and white were connected together for 230V series operation... it was actually meant to be orange and white ::)

I have the unit wired up correctly now and the 24VAC/9VAC windings are working correctly and I have 6.3VDC trimmed for the heater supply and 12V regulated DC for the relays etc.

I'm not measuring any AC voltage at the 220VAC winding however. I had some sparks on the TL783 (B+ side) of the PCB and now my 2W resistors on that side are burnt out, as well as my zeners I am pretty sure.

Could this be the result of a faulty winding (from the manufacturer), is it possible that I have damaged the transformer?

Thanks everyone,
Braeden
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on May 14, 2013, 06:27:07 AM
If you are sure you have the primary of the transformer powered up correctly and still don't measure any ac voltage with the HV secondary winding disconnected and open circuited then yes you have fritzed the thing.

It's generally not that easy to burn a winding out - it takes a pretty willing fault condition.
Normally you would burn up other components before the transformer, but it's not unheard of either.

Anyway  - disconnect, carefully apply primary and check the o/c secondary.

Good luck.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on May 14, 2013, 09:01:35 AM
There is also the fact that maybe, and it has been stated before on the thread, if you have a too high HT, because of higher mains etc..., then you'll need to bring it down with some high wattage resistor, i used 2.5K 25W or so iirc, enough to still be in the Vin-Vout max of the TL783, check the datasheet, as this will also frie the Regulator obviously...
Well that's if the Power transformer is ok as alexc has stated, and if wired correctly etc....
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: braeden on May 14, 2013, 09:23:21 AM
Thanks for the replies fellas.

This was a silly mistake and was the result of working in low light unfortunately.

I've ordered two new transformers from Musikding along with a whole new B+ section for the PSU.

It sucks that I'll have to wait another 2 weeks before it gets here but that's just how it goes I'm afraid!

Cheers,
Braeden
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on June 14, 2013, 03:04:07 AM
Can anyone suggest on which Lundahl's to use for the outputs? Currently opting for LL1540's for input.

Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on June 14, 2013, 02:20:54 PM
LL5402

Best
WT
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 18, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
I'm nearly at the wiring stage (just waiting for front panel to be laser etched) and just wondering how I would go about this;

I have these meters going in:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panel-VU-Meter-TN-73-0dB-1-288V-76x59mm-LED-lamp-NISSEI-/130384936913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5b8c3fd1

..and I'm also running Igor's bypass boards using 24v relays and using a Musukding toroid that has 24v output. I'm assuming I would go with a LM7824 for the Universal PSU reg? Also, how would I wire the lighting for the meters? They require ~3.6v - 5.2v according to the eBay link above.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 25, 2013, 11:43:07 AM
I went to test voltages tonight after carefully mounting pcb and toroid into my chassis and wiring it up. I'm using a Musikding toroid I bought back in June which I think may have been the last one in stock as they don't list it anymore. After powering up and checking voltages, I'm only reading the 250v secondary! 24v and 9v secondaries show nothing. :(

Any advice on where to go from here? I've emailed Musikding but don't like my chances as I bought the item back in early June though its been sitting on the shelf unopened until tonight, great! :( . Any advice appreciated!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 25, 2013, 03:49:12 PM
Are you sure it's wired correctly? If so, try scratching the copper wires clean with a sharp knife. Could be there's a tiny film of non-conductive stuff around the copper (rather orange or pale red than copper coloured). Not sure that's the case, but you might want to give it a try. I remember having had a similar problem and this fixed it.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 25, 2013, 05:37:12 PM
Thanks Script. Yes, wired correctly, primaries wired for 240v (orang/white tied together and yellow/lilac for live/neutral). I did scrape the 9v wires with a knife, none of the other wires had the coating though. I noticed this before mounting into the chassis.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 25, 2013, 06:49:28 PM
Can't help you with the wiring of the toroidal. You mounted the regulators off board? Check the wirings/orientation and whether you not accidentally swapped the 9V and 24V ones. Also, the board itself might want to be grounded. Other than that, don't know. Does the toroidal put out the correct voltages?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 25, 2013, 09:59:18 PM
My wiring is correct. As mentioned above, input 240v, ouput 250v OK but 9v and 24v nothing at all. Definitely a dodgy toroid. I read earlier in the thread where some users had problems with Musikding toroids. Anyone care to chime in?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 25, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
Guess you have checked already. Does the toroidal itself put out the correct/any voltage, that is, measured across bare secondary wires (9V & 24V) when not connected to the board? If it doesn't, I'd contact Music-thing and ask for a refund.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 26, 2013, 12:20:36 AM
No nothing at all on 24v or 9v. 250v secondary is working as it should.

I've emailed them but no reply yet, hopefully they will refund as it wasn't exactly cheap!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 27, 2013, 10:14:01 AM
I managed to get the 9v secondaries working, not sure how, I measured continuity on the secondaries and it was definitely there and wiring it back up it showed the second time around. 24v still shows nothing (but continuity is also there).

Anyway I also managed to get 6.3v from the heater, before and after plugging the tubes, which is good. Though the LM350T is isolated from the heatsink, the middle is somehow showing continuity to ground? 6.3v is still there though. It's quite hot so will have to relocate, but is the LM350 fried?

A major concern is that i'm getting 300+v from measuring the inputs of the 250v secondaries. I quickly tested some points and after Rx28 I'm getting 500v+ :S I'm using the silkscreened values of 470r+47r.

Mains here is at ~245v. Any advice? Middle leg of the LM783 is showing very high too. Also fried?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 28, 2013, 10:24:18 AM
Disregard the above post, I've been schooled by zayance over email and all is well. :) thanks zayance (what a champ!).
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on July 28, 2013, 10:57:46 AM
Please share  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 28, 2013, 11:40:27 AM
Yes it would have been better to explain for all here.
Basically nothing much than simple electronics and calculus that we tend to forget when buidling things.
For the HT, it's the problem i had, Mains can cause the secondary to be too high, his is at 300VAC.
Converted into DC, shows that you of course hit the TL783 too hard for it's regulation range beeing max 125V, and from the circuit designed for having about 240VDC OUT.
So as mentionned in some posts in this thread, having a higher value and power for R1 can help dropping HT to a more reasonnable value for the VReg, i personnaly had to use about 2.4K, etc...
For the 24V side, it was nothing more than a wrong way of measuring.

Nothing of a champ really ;)

T.


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 28, 2013, 12:28:38 PM
But one reason why there is R1 ...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: zayance on July 28, 2013, 01:52:56 PM
Well maybe better to leave R1 for current limiting and drop AC before entering the PCB as some have said doing on old posts, true.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 28, 2013, 09:56:54 PM
Yes, as above, I was measuring the secondaries from a common earth but the 24v secondaries on PSU3 don't share the same earth, hence the zero reading.

I'll try reduce input voltage of the 300VAC i'm getting from the 250v secondaries. Thanks again for everyones '101'. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 29, 2013, 05:31:13 AM
Yes, as above, I was measuring the secondaries from a common earth but the 24v secondaries on PSU3 don't share the same earth, hence the zero reading.

depends. put the jumper in:
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 29, 2013, 07:09:24 AM
Thanks Volker. The funny thing is its one of the first things I noticed when I first received the pcb. Was well hidden to me after populating though. :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on August 02, 2013, 04:36:57 AM
Hi,

Is there any possible mod to put a high pass side chain for this comp?

Thank You.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 02, 2013, 05:05:02 AM
HPF = opposite of Kubi mod in the sidechain.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on August 02, 2013, 05:16:33 AM
Hi Script,

I have read that, Thank You for Your information.

Is there any other posibilities other than Kubi mod? Have several possible freq hpf (that we can calculate) will be make this comp far more versatile in any other situation  :)

Thank You.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 02, 2013, 06:00:53 AM
HPF

Higher cap value = lower HPF corner freq.
Lower cap value = higher HPF corner freq.

So,
Put lower cap value (for highest desired HPF corner freq) in position on board,
Put higher cap value (for lowest needed HPF corner freq) in parallel on switch.
Engage switch for no HP filtering.
Disengage switch for HP filtering.

I'd first test how different cap values sound before drilling faceplates.
Caps should all be of the required voltage rating (maybe a bit costly).

I haven't tried this. So don't sue me :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on August 02, 2013, 06:06:25 AM
Hi Script,
that's a great idea, once again Thank You, I just not patience to do trial and error approach  ;D

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 02, 2013, 06:39:53 AM
Not sure though how far we could take it here. I'm not a tube wizard -- actually, to me tubes are a kind of expensive low-illumination light bulb with distortion behaviour  ::)

We better did some research on tube electronics. Or someone who knows their tubes could please chime in. Would too low cap values eventually mess with the circuit?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on August 02, 2013, 09:21:10 AM
 ;D ;D ;D Script.........this is my first tube project too, I don't know about tube but I read that this is a good sounding equipment, so I give it a try, so wish me luck. Now I search to find the suitable power transformer, very hard to find in my country  >:(
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 03, 2013, 12:01:39 AM
From what I read (about tubes) and deduce, tube distortion should be very low in this unit, almost negigible. I guess that feedback around the tubes linearizes them into rather "clean"-sounding amplifier stages.

Last time I looked at the comp (more than 6 months ago) it measured voltages fine but hasn't passed audio yet. I'm a very slow builder. Too many projects, too much reading ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on August 03, 2013, 12:16:15 AM
From what I read (about tubes) and deduce, tube distortion should be very low in this unit, almost negigible. I guess that feedback around the tubes linearizes them into rather "clean"-sounding amplifier stages.

This is the reason why I try to start this project

Last time I looked at the comp (more than 6 months ago) it measured voltages fine but hasn't passed audio yet. I'm a very slow builder. Too many projects, too much reading ;)

groupdiy syndrome  ;D

Any info what balanced  I/O is working good with this DAOC? I don't want to use transformer I/O.

Also any power transformer source info will be very very appreciated since I lived in 220V country, most of the supply I can found is have 230 primary so I think better get higher 250V/12V secondary to compensate.

Thank You.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on August 03, 2013, 04:14:24 AM
Would too low cap values eventually mess with the circuit?

Remembered the position of that cap wrongly :-[  The cap is after the SC tube stages and before the Vactrol. So no messing with tubes (if any at all!?), but messing with optocoupler. Kubi mod says:

"...the diode within the vactrol is a variable resistor which forms a CR highpass filter with that cap... 100nF is too small for many applications. Even worse: If you push the compressor harder, more current goes through the diodes and the resistance lowers so that less compression happens..."

Meaning: apart from changing the resistance on the receiving side of the optocoupler (shunt to GND btw. R102 & RV101) for volume attenuation, the corner freq of the filter (on LED side of optocoupler: C104 & resistance of opto diode) itself is not fixed/stable but varies in resistance due to current? Interesting! Meaning the louder the signal, the lower the resistance in the diode and thus the higher the corner freq.? It constantly adapts, but by how much? In the worst case scenario, if corner freq. extends too far up into the audible freq. range (because of low C104 cap value), then "less compression happens" ultimately means that louder bass signals (higher current pushing up corner freq higher) get less compressed than quieter bass signals of same freq. below filter corner freq.?

Shot me or is it my head? Should I consult with a doctor or with beverages from the fridge?  ;)


Hm, if so, C104 is better as high in value as possible. 1uf fits if legs are bent or extended.

ALT HPF IDEA: How about an RC filter (stable corner freq.) between wiper of SC In pot and before the SC tube stage?

 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 03, 2013, 05:26:51 AM
Quote
Also any power transformer source info will be very very appreciated since I lived in 220V country, most of the supply I can found is have 230 primary so I think better get higher 250V/12V secondary to compensate.

Thank You.

Musikding will be getting more 'ring250' toroids in so maybe send them an email. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on August 03, 2013, 06:11:42 AM

Also any power transformer source info will be very very appreciated since I lived in 220V country, most of the supply I can found is have 230 primary so I think better get higher 250V/12V secondary to compensate.

Thank You.

I have for sale a Musikding psu traffo for the doac in the black market - built one already and won't be using this one.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=52808.msg673461#msg673461 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=52808.msg673461#msg673461)
Cheers  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 08, 2013, 11:54:05 PM
I'm trying to sort the wiring for the input and output transformers at the moment and could use some help! I've never wired audio transformers in alternative configurations and trying to get my head around it.

I'm using LL1540's for both input and output. Input I have wired as 1:1 as follows (please correct if I'm wrong) - Refer to here for pinout http://www.lundahl.se/pdf/1540.pdf :

Primary: pins 2+4 tied, pin 1(+), pin 3(-) - From Bypass board XLR
Secondary: pins 5+7 tied, pin 8(+), pin 6+pin E(-) - To PCB

For the output (also LL1540) I wanted to wire reversed 2:1. I have the following:

Primary: pins 8+5 tied as (+), pin E to ground - From PCB
Secondary: pins 2+4 tied, pin 1(+), pin 3(-) - To Bypass PCB

Does this look about right? Any advice appreciated before I finalise the soldering on the prototype boards that hold the transformers. BTW i'm not using any additional resistors as the spec sheet says, should I? Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 09, 2013, 07:56:30 PM
Anyone?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on August 11, 2013, 03:06:53 AM
I think I also did it like that though not sure, i haven't wrote it down or anything like that.
If it works OK, it is OK.  8)
But maybe someone else can chime in?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 11, 2013, 08:41:46 AM
Thanks Jeff. Hopefully i'm on the right track! Thank you in advance to whoever can assist. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 19, 2013, 05:01:42 AM
Is it possible to switch between GR signal and Output signal for one channel using just one pole? I'm thinking not but would be good for confirmation. Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 30, 2013, 03:49:20 AM
Finally somewhat finished my D-AOC. Thanks to those who gave assistance, very helpful.

(http://www.amnet.net.au/~amunday/d-aoc/photo.JPG)

(http://www.amnet.net.au/~amunday/d-aoc/photo1.JPG)

A bit of level mismatch between channels in link mode but will sort that with the trimmer on the vactrol. Pretty happy with the sound!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on August 30, 2013, 07:20:07 AM
nice!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 30, 2013, 08:13:55 AM
Panel here if anyone's interested:

http://www.amnet.net.au/~amunday/d-aoc/D-AOC%20FRONT%20PANEL.pdf
http://www.amnet.net.au/~amunday/d-aoc/FRONT%20PANEL.dwg
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on August 30, 2013, 01:31:29 PM
Just noticed the limit switch. What is it?  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dipfrik on August 30, 2013, 06:50:35 PM
Nice! Where do you get these knobs?

Cheers, Sven
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 30, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
The Limit switch basically enables the slopes, otherwise it runs in 'analag' mode. :)

Knobs from Banzai.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rock soderstrom on August 31, 2013, 01:40:53 AM
Thanks for posting the panel data!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on August 31, 2013, 12:03:55 PM
So has anyone tried putting the 500R trimmer for stereo link balancing at the switch itself? I have +/-0.1dB throughout the whole compression range when not linked but stereo link just throws it out about 2dB :(
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on September 01, 2013, 02:16:54 PM
Very Nice! ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on September 10, 2013, 10:00:34 PM
Anyone find inconsistency when using the NE2 halogens? I've noticed they flicker sometimes and wondering if the ZD is better to use.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on September 11, 2013, 04:29:57 AM
Anyone find inconsistency when using the NE2 halogens? I've noticed they flicker sometimes and wondering if the ZD is better to use.

same here. Just try a couple of different ones and use the best. Worked for me, but i accidentily ordered 20 bulbs...  :o
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on September 11, 2013, 07:11:07 AM
Hmm, do you think the diode would work ok instead?

I had to order those lamps from Israel, took over a month to receive!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Nescafe on October 09, 2013, 01:11:35 AM
MODDING THE SLOPES (& THRESHOLD)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-Slopes.GIF)


Hi,
could somebody explain to me how to take measurement like this and what software to use, my purpose is trying to match between 2 channel.

Thank You.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 09, 2013, 07:16:03 AM
You are on the right way exchanging the Edcors for mastering.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 09, 2013, 09:41:29 PM
As well as having the desired sound and compression character, mastering generally is about  precise control, matchable across both channels.

So first up is to minimise sources of mismatch - here that means, as well as tube selection and matching, making sure the input, compression and output controls track as closely as possible for 2 channels.

That means rotary switches and hi precision resistors. No real problem, but it takes some care.

Then there is the sidechain matching - you would have to ensure the vactrol assembly responds as closely as possible across the channels.

That means measuring and selecting vactrols/leds and what not. Vactrol selection is not easy, needing some kind of test jig and lots of measurement time. And vactrols themselves are not cheap, as well as reputedly varying quite a bit in characteristics.

So, vactrol selection probably has potential to  make a positive difference, depending on your tolerances.

All this would really start to show up as precision in each channel as well as across both.

There are some other resistors here and there that should probably also checked for tolerance, but I found the d-oac to be remarkably similar across both channels with generally no special selection of anything.

---

Next up, the transformers should be good quality/premium - hopefully the manufacturing will ensure the transformer performance is reasonably the same. This is *not* always the case for cheaper traffos!

After that, it is a question of what 'character' the traffos impart. I've only really been able to tell much difference between 'premium' traffos and 'value' traffos, like Edcor xsm/wsm. This is not a slight on Edcors, in many ways they have a performance which is great at the price.

So any of the premium traffos should be reasonably transparent, low distortion etc. I'm no fan of transformer-less outputs - noise is an ever present and insidious problem in the overall audio system. Traffos, if not picking up psu noise, are your friend in preventing noise issues downstream ..

I would certainly recommend shielded traffos all round to help in noise rejection.

If you don't have a toroidal psu traffo, then ... not so good but not necessarily the end of the world.
But probably, yes.

So - please. Shielding. Please. And check before final placement, the best place for stuff to be aligned.
This makes more difference than all other everythings combined and x 10.

----

THEN, assuming the basic wiring, mechanicals and components are not detracting from the potential performance, as can most definately be the case for non-optimised positioning of (worse still, unshielded) signal transformers, you SHOULD be good to go.

To know for sure you are meeting the criteria for mastering basic performance, some skill and tools in measuring the unit performance is required.

Evaluate freq resp, distortion, gain structure and finally but most difficult, measure the gain reduction characteristics.

That means manually measuring the resultant range of output values for a defined range of input values at lots of different control settings. Then plotting them to give you the family of 'transfer function' curves of the unit.

Just like the reposting of that graph above.  How cool was that work as described, all the way back then :)

You might have access to a high end test tool that auto generates transfer functions, or maybe you write your own!
Thus you can demonstrate you have a unit you can safely think of as 'mastering quality'.

SO - somewhere between that and nothing, is the place you will find the things you might want to look  at .

:)

Cheers

ps - I think of all the diy dual compressor/limiters I have done, the d-oac has the most potential as a mastering unit. And that includes the gssl.

pps - I would probably never master in the analog domain, but I'm not a professional   8)





Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: abbey road d enfer on October 22, 2013, 05:30:33 PM
today I did some more measuring for this post:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/DAOC-Slopes.GIF)
Just one question, that you may have answered already... what software have you used to produce these graphs?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 23, 2013, 03:27:36 AM
Just one question, that you may have answered already... what software have you used to produce these graphs?
Neutrik AS04 Software with Neutrik A2 (http://www.nti-audio.com/en/products/discontinued-nti-audio-products.aspx)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: abbey road d enfer on October 23, 2013, 04:28:21 AM
Just one question, that you may have answered already... what software have you used to produce these graphs?
Neutrik AS04 Software with Neutrik A2 (http://www.nti-audio.com/en/products/discontinued-nti-audio-products.aspx)
Thanks.
I should have known, having been NTI's distributor for many years. I fact I used the A1/A2 as stand-alone instruments most of the times.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 30, 2013, 05:39:29 AM
Hmm, do you think the diode would work ok instead?

Ya - ditch the neons. They suck. And 'ping'.

Get some zeners - 68V, 1W or something like that, if I recall.

Check the detail and get the nearest.

I used neons once. Then tossed them.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mitsos on November 04, 2013, 12:21:15 AM
I think I've said this before, but I'm finally going to get to mine..  ::)

couple of questions..   Has anyone done one with 12V heaters?

also, as far as the input level/threshold, has anyone use higher gain tubes either in position one or the sidechain?  I know people used higher ratio input trafos, which I would think would be the same as swapping V1?  But I read some comments that it would be better to swap the sidechain tube, hence the question. 

thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on November 05, 2013, 06:38:31 AM
Hmm, do you think the diode would work ok instead?

Ya - ditch the neons. They suck. And 'ping'.

Get some zeners - 68V, 1W or something like that, if I recall.

Check the detail and get the nearest.

I used neons once. Then tossed them.

Alex, would these be ok?

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/zener-diodes/6256473/
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on November 08, 2013, 06:36:57 AM
yep - thats fine

As I now recall, I did use 5W also.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mitsos on November 19, 2013, 01:43:52 PM
Are the 47uF/400V caps really necessary? I have a bunch of 10uF and 22uF, 450V from other projects, would 22 be OK here? 

cheers!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mitsos on December 07, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
For those who have done the Slope switch, is this more or less how you hook it up?  The LEDs/Rs are in no particular order yet.

thanks
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dipfrik on January 02, 2014, 03:17:02 PM
Maybe i can raise the bar a little bit…what about an Arduino based TROM ("total recall option mod") for saving, restoring and A/B'ing different treshhold and slope settings?  ;D

I know, why my mother spend so much money in my education! …need more "Kaltgetränke"  8)

Cheers, Sven

...and yes, this is a not finished D-AOC in a 1RU height case with a reversed Gssl Frontpanel from Frank ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: thomasdf on May 21, 2014, 03:05:11 PM
I was planning on building a LA2A with a different sidechain and somebody pointed me the D-AOC... Looks very tempting.
Has anybody tried to build a single channel on PTP?
I have an old chassis that I would like to use.
Can I get rid of the input transformer?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: thomasdf on July 30, 2014, 10:16:58 AM
bump!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Lowfreq on August 27, 2014, 05:32:38 AM
I'm just about to set up my "slope" switch with the different leds & resistors, but I also want to include the kubi mod (extra vactrol) which I currently have installed. Is it as simple as lifting the positive & negative legs on the paralleled vactrol, and attaching that to the switching system? Or do I also need to lift the three legs on the photocell side also?

If that's working as an LDR will it still affect the other vactrol if those 3 legs are still in parallel with it?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 09, 2014, 05:03:16 PM

Hm, if so, C104 is better as high in value as possible. 1uf fits if legs are bent or extended.

ALT HPF IDEA: How about an RC filter (stable corner freq.) between wiper of SC In pot and before the SC tube stage?

^ interesting, what implications would this have on the ecc82?  This would be an unbalanced (maybe incorrect terminology, having been doing maths for balanced HPF for another project) RC correct?  Could you put it on a pot & switch so that your R would be variable and the whole thing could be bypassed? 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on October 10, 2014, 03:03:10 AM
Can I get rid of the input transformer?

The original DAOC did use  10k:10k trannies at the input. No gain there, only debalancing. I cannot see any reason why it should not work with an unbalanced, ironless input.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 15, 2014, 11:18:57 PM
Hmm, do you think the diode would work ok instead?

Ya - ditch the neons. They suck. And 'ping'.

Get some zeners - 68V, 1W or something like that, if I recall.

Check the detail and get the nearest.

I used neons once. Then tossed them.

Alex, would these be ok?

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/zener-diodes/6256473/

The Zener called for on the board is 1N5371 or 60V

The Zener linked here is a 1N5373  68V
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 17, 2014, 04:26:36 PM
What is the dc voltage at the output cap?

Am I ok with a 250- 10uF WIMA from the pm660 build?

I'm thinking of parallel with the 10uF Solen just for the hell of it on one channel and seeing if I like.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2014, 05:29:46 AM
The output cap should have a voltage rating exceeding the 'start up' B+ voltage at the finals.

So - if you have a B+ that starts at 300Vdc unloaded at startup, that then drops down to say 250V loaded,

you still need 300V rating  min at that cap

(or any other which is in the 'line of fire' -  until tubes begin to conduct and the psu droops an amount determined by it's 'stiffness'.)


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: alexc on October 18, 2014, 05:36:28 AM
I think I was reading about doing a microprocessor based sidechain for this build? (arduino thingy)

A great idea - this limiter could be great with a digital sim of the vactrol. They do tend to be all over the place!

Unless you have that most great of tools, a transfer function (magnitude only even!) curve drawing app, it's painful to characterise what's going on, dynamic response wise.

The attenuation, pre and finals of this build are really fine. The GR character is also cool. But hard to match or quantify the differences between commonly implemented 'modes' 

ie. anti parallel led or whatever persuasion, resistor and/or cap timing and so on.

So - one of them fancy pwm sidechains on this guy please. For 'poor man tubey mastering'  :)

Sounds like a job for Abe !
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: petermontg on October 18, 2014, 12:03:50 PM
Any problems using metal oxide 5% for 2W. lower tolerance, more abuse etc etc
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 18, 2014, 12:19:22 PM
The GR character is also cool. But hard to match or quantify the differences between commonly implemented 'modes' 

ie. anti parallel led or whatever persuasion, resistor and/or cap timing and so on.


hey alexc,  what value of cap did you use at Cx04?  Kubi spoke about using a larger value?

From Kubi  "Increase Cx04 from 100nF to whatever you can maximally fit on the PCB. 220nF was the biggest cap I could insert. I wish there was enough space for 1uF, but real estate was too precious on the PCBs and Volker was too stingy with the real estate. Anyway, the diode within the vactrol is a variable resistor which forms a CR highpass filter with that cap. If you increase the cap, the filter frequency lowers and the compressor becomes more sensitive to lower frequencies. Yes, I know everybody wants a highpass switch for side chains like the GSSL's, but you don't need it here, 100nF is too small for many applications. Even worse: If you push the compressor harder, more current goes though the diodes and the resistance lowers so that less compression happens - quite inept, isn't it?

Don't worry, if you double the vactrols the resistance from two parallel diodes does not become lower, because only one diode conducts at a time, thus the other diode becomes an infinitive resistance for the period of a half signal wave (apart from the leakage current). "

I was able to fit 1uF on there with a little creativity.  I don't know what EMC problems this bring as the caps leads are longer now (inductance) and they are floating some above the board (capaditor antenna?) ,  I will soon find out.....

Anyhoo, I'm hoping to push that CR pole waaaaay down so that the interaction of the LED varying resistance with that cap won't cause funny business with what material gets compressed...  probably not explaining that as elegantly but I think I understand what Kubi was trying to say?  Maybe it's too early and coffee too strong..  Then it may be possible to implement a HPF prior to that tube stage for the sidechain?  I'm thinking.... somebody point me right.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Miska on October 20, 2014, 05:10:52 PM
Hello!

Musikding in Germany does not sell the toroidal power transformer anymore. I've tried to find an european alternative, without luck. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Miska on October 24, 2014, 03:18:46 AM
Bump...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on October 24, 2014, 03:47:00 AM
Miska, I have one I'm not using, brand new and unused from Musikding. I'm in Perth, Australia though. PM me if you're interested.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: thomasdf on November 01, 2014, 11:39:38 AM
Banzai carries some of these, and is in Germany too
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on November 01, 2014, 03:21:10 PM
Hello!

Musikding in Germany does not sell the toroidal power transformer anymore. I've tried to find an european alternative, without luck. Any suggestions?

I have all my custom trannies done from this company: http://www.mueller-rondo.com/
I can highly recommend them. No freakbusiness but german precision engineering!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Miska on November 01, 2014, 06:31:22 PM
Banzai carries some of these, and is in Germany too

Which transformer do you mean? I checked through Banzais trannies twice and couldn't find anything even close to the specs for D-AOC.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: petermontg on November 02, 2014, 07:48:45 AM
Hello!

Musikding in Germany does not sell the toroidal power transformer anymore. I've tried to find an european alternative, without luck. Any suggestions?

I have all my custom trannies done from this company: http://www.mueller-rondo.com/
I can highly recommend them. No freakbusiness but german precision engineering!

Did it set you back much?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jensenmann on November 06, 2014, 11:09:58 AM
no, 50VA trannies are app 40€ + shipping
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on November 06, 2014, 02:07:55 PM
For those who will build (have built) D-AOC sans transformers:

On the input, is a cap necessary to prevent possible unwanted DC bias problems at the grid?  If so 1uF puts the pole at ~10Hz if I use 15k as R.  Is there some other input relationship math needed here?

How about for the output, I haven't tried any math to figure the OP impedance but assuming it's 10k, will it be unhappy driving anything less if I take output straight off the 10uF cap?  How about some buffer with op-amps, anyone tried this? 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on January 16, 2015, 08:39:16 AM
Hello,

I've just replaced the edcors on my DAOC : LL1540 (from Sahib) on the inputs and XS1100 (directly from Edcor) on the outputs.  They sound fantastic. Great combo and far superior to the original edcors.  No need for zobels, etc....I ran my DAOC transformerless input for years but the specified edcor outputs still ringed a bit on their high frequency limit.

I also replaced all audio tubes with 6N1P. After playing with many of them, i've found a combo of 6N1P which gave me around 0.1% THD at +20dBu with no compression. I guess because of better match between triodes ?

The sidechain tubes were left as-is (12au7).

I measured individual vactrol GR amount on circuit. Three of them are almost the same, one of them off by almost a dB. I guess i'm getting a couple more vactrols to get a more accurate match.  I tried to compensate using series resistors on the led side of the vactrol but it seems to affect the lowpass corner frequency formed by C104 and the LED, so compression accuracy was screwed a bit on bass-heavy material.

I replaced r126 (33k and "TBD" on LA2A schemo) with 50K trimpot on board to adjust needle precision so i can get accurate readings on both channels at up to 5-6dB GR. I also moved zero adjust trimmers to front.

Now, i wonder if the HT PSU can be further cleaned.  I usually get a significant ripple reduction on the TL783 by bypassing the adjust pin to ground with a 22u/450v cap, but i didn't tested this yet on this particular PSU.

Hope this help. I've always loved this compressor.

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on January 16, 2015, 07:28:37 PM
Is there a source for matched vactrols? I've also found the 500r trimmer on the vactrol leg isn't super accurate.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on February 22, 2015, 04:32:14 PM
 Hello everybody!

So I'm slowly gathering parts to build one of these later in the year. In the meantime, I have been working on a front panel since I haven't been able to find anyone who has case readily available for this. I decided to share it with everyone in the event there were others who are going to build a D-AOC but weren't sure how to get a front panel made. PM me and I'll send you the files as I can't attach them here. Everyone is free to use it and make changes to suit your needs.

Here are links to the products that I am using for the cut outs:

Power switch:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=R1966ABLKBLKEFBLU-ND&WT.z_header=search_go

Note: This is a 125V switch. I have not found this same switch in 250V

Meters:

http://www.hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=59

Push button switch:

http://www.don-audio.com/Classic-British-Console-Pushbutton-Switch-Illuminated-Yellow

They also have it in blue:

http://www.don-audio.com/Classic-British-Console-Pushbutton-Switch-Illuminated-blue

The option for the different slopes to be selectable is included to make it as complete as possible. I'm going to use a 12 position switch for the slope (stop pin at 6) and 24 position for everything else (stop pin at 21). Right now I'm looking at doing Elma's for the 24 position and Grayhill for the 12, but that may change. The drill hole sizes for the switches will have to be adjusted for different manufacturers.

I've attached a PDF of the panel as a preview of the layout. I hope this will be helpful.


Paul

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on February 23, 2015, 11:16:24 AM
Hey all,
I'm wiring this up now but I still have a a few parts to collect.  Does anyone know if 400v 10 uf's are safe to use as opposed to the 600v that's called for?    I remember reading the output caps never get more than 350v but want to obviously be sure.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on May 20, 2015, 01:45:54 AM
Silvas,

Would you mind posting the resistor values you used for your stepped Elma switches?

Thanks!

Paul
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on June 03, 2015, 07:42:39 PM
Hey
I'm all wired up and failing over here.  As far as I know everything looks right but I got some problems;
First off I'm using the custom Edcor. Its definitely putting out 24, 9, 250.
But my R1 is hot. I smoked two 10 watt double 1ks. I put a 500 ohm power resiter rated at 50 watts and its still hot. Like hot to touch. My diodes look alright and ive checked the rectifiers which I put large heat sinks on and their running luke warm.
My heaters are running at 6.0
But my voltages arent lined up to everyone elses.
Sorry to rectify an old thread but ive spent months and im not much farther. Tubes light up but they're at a dramitically different brightness from one another.
Any help would really be great.
Thanks in advance.
Dylan
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rmaier on June 09, 2015, 12:18:38 PM
Hi Dylan,
Contemplating this as my next build, so I'm curious about the Edcor power transformer. Regarding your problem with R1 470 2W, I've read that here that the 470R 2W resistors should be metal oxide. Is that what you're using?
Ralph
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on June 09, 2015, 01:32:12 PM
It smoked the 470 2w. It smoked the dual 1k in parrallel 5 watts.
I now have a 500 r 25w power resistor and its hot. Like hot to touch.  I orderred a 1k 50w power resistor hopefully that will bring it down.  Others have experienced the same thing.
As far as the edcor power xfmr, its definitely slick looking. My filaments were fine but several people experienced the colors being mislabeled.
I thought I had everything right but obviously something is amiss.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rmaier on June 09, 2015, 03:11:48 PM
Bummer.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 09, 2015, 03:18:13 PM
If R1 is smoking there must be something wrong.
Does it burn without tubes inserted?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rmaier on June 09, 2015, 06:30:52 PM
Regarding the power transformer: I just noticed that Gustav offers a toroid with 9V 2A and 230V 35mA secondaries. Is 2A a bit too little for the heater supply (I'm aware that the schematic calls for 2.5)? I'd like to use a toroid if at all possible, and can't find anything from Antek that quite fits the bill.

Link: https://pcbgrinder.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=94_97&product_id=181

Thanks,

Ralph
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on June 10, 2015, 01:45:55 AM
If R1 is smoking there must be something wrong.
Does it burn without tubes inserted?
No but its Hot. To hot to touch. Maybe the xfmrs current is to high? They're reading 250v going in. Ive triple/quadruple checked.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on June 14, 2015, 04:14:34 AM
IIRC, R1 also smoked on mine due to a silly high (252V secondary on the transformer). I ended up using a large resistor as a voltage divider to bring it down before the board..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on June 14, 2015, 10:11:46 AM
I've ordered some 1k power resistors, should that be enough?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 26, 2015, 02:05:21 PM
Hi all,

I finally started to do tests on the d-aoc, but I have a problem.
The d-aoc does not compress.
The audio passes without problems in the circuit, but I have no action on the controls of threshold, input and output.
My idea is that vactrols not working, but it could be another cause that I did not understand so far.
I measured the voltages from test points and have these values:
CH1
R122 = 0V
R118 = 115V (instead of 133)
R105 = 84V (instead of 109)
R111 = 208V (instead of 222)
R127 = 68V (I'm using 68V zener)
R128 = 229V (sometimes I have 235)
Heater voltage = 6.3V
Same voltages on CH2 apart on R205 that I have 87V
The voltages are all lower then Volker readings shown on the forum.
Maybe I should replace the resistors R2 and R3 with a resistor 510R + jumper to elevate all voltages?
The transformer I have is the same used on Gyraf G9 from Don Audio and have this specs:
Pri. 2 x 115V - Sec. 9V - 2.5A, 5V - 0.5A and 220V - 0.1A
Mains in Italy is 220V.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on July 26, 2015, 02:43:06 PM
220V from Transformers secondary is indeed a bit low. Nevertheless your problem is somewhere else. Vactrols could be the reason but pot wiring as well. Don't care to much about the low voltages. The tubes are quite forgiving.
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 26, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Hi Bernd,

Thanks for your help.
I thought that because of the absence of compression was due to vactrols.
Anyway I had a doubt about the wiring of the stepped attenuators that I used for all controls of threshold, input and output.
I also tried to change the position of the wires, but have not had any results.
Now I have the attenuators connected on PCB in this way:
IN = on first pin (-> R108)
OUT = in the middle
GND = on third pin (ground)
The connection shown above is correct?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 26, 2015, 05:13:13 PM
The connections shown refer only to the wiring of threshold attenuator.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 27, 2015, 04:25:00 PM
Hi there,

Channel left is working now.
Bypass PCB is working too.
I continue to investigate on the right channel that is not operational yet.
With the stereo link active and through the VU meters I can see the two channels that work,  but no audio output on right channel.
No audio on right channel in dual mono mode as well.
I also swapped the valves between the two channels without any results.
Vactrols seem to work, then the problem is to be found elsewhere.
More news to follow...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on July 28, 2015, 12:00:57 PM
Good news! With a working channel it will be easy to repair the non working channel.

 Any mistake you found yourself is a good mistake. You'll learn from it and won't make it again.

Bend
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 28, 2015, 05:51:30 PM
Solved! The problem were the two pins (maybe one) of the molex of the input transformer badly crimped.
I was looking for the problem in the circuit, tubes, vactrols, attenuators, etc... no words!
Today I did some testing and I must say that this compressor is one of the best I've ever heard so far.
A 20-year career spent in recording and mastering studios I had the chance to try a multitude of tube and solid state compressors and it has nothing to envy to those blazoned $$$ on the market nowadays and some old designs from the past yet.
So I want to thank Rowan for the design of this amazing compressor, to Volker for PCBs and helpful advices, to Kubi for mods and all those who have tried before me and gave me the right direction to follow for its build.
And last but not least, I want to thank Bernd for not having made me feel alone in these days on this thread and his useful tips and support :)
I still have to do a bit of testing, changes and improvements on it, after that I'll post some photos showing what I got.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on July 29, 2015, 07:01:28 AM
I wish I had made the post to suggest checking your crimp connections as I had a similar issue with my build although intermittent.

I have bought a proper crimping tool since then and I would advise you do the same, if not already. :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on July 29, 2015, 08:51:18 AM
Hi Druu,

I had thought of everything except for that trouble.
It's amazing how a small problem can become a headache in researching problems.
However, I am using a good crimping tool, it is not expensive and quality as that of the Molex brand, but it really does its job well. I did not do mine, obviously :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on August 06, 2015, 01:47:26 PM
Unfortunately my D-AOC recently developed a  problem:  There's significant hum (-60 db on my converters input) present on both channels indeptendent of input or pot settings. It has a very prominent 100hz component (almost 30 db higher than 50 hz). Changing grounding etc. doesn't do anything, everything is transformer balanced. DC Voltages seem to be OK, but I've looked at the B+ with a scope and found +/- 3V of ripple present. 

Otherwise it is working fine. I've got the Kubi advanced mods installed.

What to do? I love this compressor and need to get it back to working fully . Thanks!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on August 06, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
Unfortunately my D-AOC recently developed a  problem:  There's significant hum (-60 db on my converters input) present on both channels indeptendent of input or pot settings. It has a very prominent 100hz component (almost 30 db higher than 50 hz). Changing grounding etc. doesn't do anything, everything is transformer balanced. DC Voltages seem to be OK, but I've looked at the B+ with a scope and found +/- 3V of ripple present. 

Otherwise it is working fine. I've got the Kubi advanced mods installed.

What to do? I love this compressor and need to get it back to working fully . Thanks!

What does the B+ look like unloaded?  A tech showed me a tip once dealing with ICs simply to desolder/lift the power rail pin and measure the psu rail DC with the scope as it would show any ripple as well.  Dealing with a lot higher voltage but maybe it would help to identify if it is coming from the psu rail maybe regulator is unhappy or something else upstream failed.  Is your room hotter, maybe higher temp wearing on the reg?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on August 06, 2015, 07:12:22 PM
What does the B+ look like unloaded?  A tech showed me a tip once dealing with ICs simply to desolder/lift the power rail pin and measure the psu rail DC with the scope as it would show any ripple as well.  Dealing with a lot higher voltage but maybe it would help to identify if it is coming from the psu rail maybe regulator is unhappy or something else upstream failed.  Is your room hotter, maybe higher temp wearing on the reg?

Thanks MicDaddy! I found out that traces have been burned in the B+ PSU section...

Reconnected them, this lowered the hum but it's still way too high.

This was an early, rather sloppy build of mine, I'll I think I'll order a new PCB...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on August 07, 2015, 07:21:20 AM
I've measured continuity between pin 2 and 3  of the TL783. The 3 Zeners and the 1N4004 test OK.

So I guess the regulator is broken?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on August 13, 2015, 08:40:31 AM
Hi all,

After completing all tests and had a long burn-in for tubes as well as for audio transformers i confirm the quality of this compressor. I really love it!
Here are a few pictures.

(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc1.jpg)


(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc2.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on August 13, 2015, 10:51:58 AM
^ wow Unit-8, that is incredible!  I'm about to finish mine and you've given entire new inspirations on what to try to do... care to share what all you have going on?

What is that enclosure on the far right?

What are those switch/pcb assemblies, are they custom or off the shelf available?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on August 13, 2015, 02:18:06 PM
Hi MicDaddy,

Thanks for appreciating my work!
The small box on the right you see is an AC / DC - 220v to 5v converter that covers the demand of current required for operation of the 4 relays of bypass.
The toroidal transformer also has an output of 5v as the converter, but with only 0.5A which are not enough to drive all the 4 relays at the same time unfortunately.
All PCBs you see apart the main board, of course were drawn by me and then etched by a company in Italy.
I thought to the PCBs for the 4 switches Elma type 01 (1 pole - 12 positions) to create the resistor networks for the input and output attenuators.
The threshold switches are the Elma type 04 (1 pole - 24 pos)
All the attenuators have a 1 dB step.
To change the slope I used 2 ALPS switches (2 pole - 5 pos - no shorting)
On the red PCB there are mounted 2 pairs of vactrols as the Kubi mod plus one resistor and 3 LEDs that modify the compression slope (Volker mod)
From soft to hard compression I used: position 1) 100K resistor, 2) white LED, 3) blue LED, 4) red LED, 5) 2 pairs of vactrols with one in reverse that work together.
With the use of the resistor as well as the 3 LEDs just one vactrol (no reverse) works.
After trying different resistors and LEDs, with this combination I found the compression curves that work well for me according to my tastes.
I hope this helps.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on August 14, 2015, 06:27:14 AM
Got my D-AOC up and running again. The TL783 was the culprit, presumably because of the plastic insulator inlay being faulty and thus having created a short to ground via the heat sink at one point. It might have melted through, as this thing gets pretty hot. Hope it won't happen again...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on August 14, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
Got my D-AOC up and running again.

Well done!  ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: living sounds on August 14, 2015, 03:02:47 PM
Well done!  ;)

Thanks, couldn't live without my favourite vocal compressor.   :D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: mitsos on August 20, 2015, 12:43:47 AM
(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc2.jpg)
That's one of the coolest faceplates I've seen here in a while... Where did you get those knobs from?   
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on August 20, 2015, 05:24:41 PM
Hi Mitsos,

You are welcome! It 's always great to receive compliments after a hard work.  :D
Knobs are manufactured by the German company Mentor and you can buy them online from Farnell or TME.
Probably you find them also from RS, Mouser or Distrelec, but I'm not sure. Try to take a look.
From the Mentor website you can also download the catalog in pdf format where all the data about them.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: The Unik on September 04, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
Hi all,

After completing all tests and had a long burn-in for tubes as well as for audio transformers i confirm the quality of this compressor. I really love it!
Here are a few pictures.

(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc1.jpg)


(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc2.jpg)

Well done  :)

2 questions I f I may :

Is it the API 2621 trafos I see in there ? If yes where did you find them ?
Also is your front panel and case from Schaeffer (Front panel express)
Lastly, any clues to find those kind of panel meters ?

thx a lot

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on September 04, 2015, 08:06:07 PM
Look like Sowter no?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Unit-8 on September 16, 2015, 09:04:17 PM
MicDaddy you won! :)
Trafos are respectively the 9063 (ins) and 8940a (outs) by Sowter.
Quote
The Unik

Well done  :)

2 questions I f I may :

Is it the API 2621 trafos I see in there ? If yes where did you find them ?
Also is your front panel and case from Schaeffer (Front panel express)
Lastly, any clues to find those kind of panel meters ?

thx a lot
First of all... Thanks for appreciating my work!
You can buy the trafos online directly from Sowter's website.
Normally it takes 2 or 3 weeks for shipping, it depends on the availability or if they must build them from scratch.
Yes, the front panel comes from Schaeffer AG.
The meters instead are two NOS built in 1953 by Marion  Electrical Instruments Co. USA that luckily I found on ebay some time ago.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: felixnieto on October 11, 2015, 03:21:13 PM
Just bought one of these units from a guy in Australia. Was wondering if there is a way to rewire the 240v input power transformer to 110v. or to just get a replacement transformer? Im trying to not have to get a step up box. I don't have too much experience in this department to know if its possible or not.

Any opinions?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 11, 2015, 05:36:40 PM
Just bought one of these units from a guy in Australia. Was wondering if there is a way to rewire the 240v input power transformer to 110v.
We need to know which transformer you have.
Model or or Pic?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: felixnieto on October 12, 2015, 04:34:14 PM
Alright. Here is a picture of the power transformer.


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: felixnieto on October 12, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
And one of the whole unit
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 13, 2015, 04:31:02 PM
Looks like the transformer has 2 x 115V primaries (yellow/white, orange/?)
Wire those in series for 230V.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: felixnieto on October 23, 2015, 08:53:17 PM
Great! So I wired it up and you were right! Everything works perfectly! Thanks so much!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: steves.mastering on November 02, 2015, 03:07:12 PM
Hi,

I haven't studied this project too much as of yet... just sitting in work at the moment and dreaming about how good this unit will be when it's done... or when it is started haha

I see a lot of people are enjoying this unit transformerless. I'm hoping to have mine switchable between Lundahls and transformerless.

Would this work similarly to the attached GSSL Mod?? Or would there be much of a difference.

Thanks all.

Ste
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on November 02, 2015, 03:26:46 PM
I'm hoping to have mine switchable between Lundahls and transformerless.

I too am wanting to figure this out, also if an IC input option (also switchable), so you could go unbal, tx bal, IC bal on a switch, yay nay?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Rocinante on November 07, 2015, 12:43:20 PM
Im dying over here. Th his has been my Achilles heel.
Okay so first off
Im using the custom edcor with 230v, 9v, 24v
Upon power up everything glows nicely BUT the 470r 2 watt is just sooo hot. I replaced it with 500 ohm 25 watt and guess what; still hot. Way too hot.
I replaced every regulator and all diodes around them. They get hot but im using bog heat sinks to dissipate the heat.
Anyways the tubes glow nicely for about 2 minutes with the channel 2 12at7 a little bright then they just all start to die down at which point i quickly shut it off. I just bought 4 new 12au7 tubes just for this so it cant be them. I guess maybe the 12at7s but would they cause such overheating or the tubes to die down like that?
This has eluded me for forever now.  And to date is the only build i have had to put down and pick back up again a couple of times.  Its also my 7th tube project so i understand the basics and have had successes.  This has only been failure followed by failure.
Can someone please tell me where i can look?
By now its the point.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Corusco on March 21, 2016, 07:31:32 PM
I'm looking to finish my D-AOC up soon, but I've been slowed down for quite a while by not having  the time to draw up a slope selector circuit board. Would any who have designed one be willing to share their drawings for it?  Or if you have any left over from a board batch, would you be willing to share it?  I'm a little embarrassed having to ask, but it's been so long that I have to reconcile myself with the fact that I've gotten nowhere for a while because of it.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Majestic12 on March 22, 2016, 11:24:15 AM
I'm looking to finish my D-AOC up soon, but I've been slowed down for quite a while by not having  the time to draw up a slope selector circuit board. Would any who have designed one be willing to share their drawings for it?  Or if you have any left over from a board batch, would you be willing to share it?  I'm a little embarrassed having to ask, but it's been so long that I have to reconcile myself with the fact that I've gotten nowhere for a while because of it.

I think I have a few boards left. Just write me a message.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 23, 2016, 05:58:43 AM
After a long time of not doing any diy i finally decided to complete my d-aoc build. I'm wondering what to do with pin 1 of the i/o xlrs (I'm using the relay bypass pcbs from silent: arts).

Wire all pin 1 to chassi as close as possible to the xlrs? Or do i wire all the pin 1 to starground, where all the other ground connections iec/pcb/toroid are connected to chassis?

Also, does anyone happen to have a scale file for a round triplett dc 1 ma meter lying around that I could print out?

Thanks!
/j
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: fragletrollet on May 14, 2016, 06:53:04 PM
Where are people getting their VTL5C4/2`s from?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on May 15, 2016, 01:58:46 PM
Where are people getting their VTL5C4/2`s from?

Try these guys:

https://octopart.com/vtl5c4%2F2-vactec-40913801


Small Bear Electronics used to carry them, but I don't seem them in their catalog anymore. Just VTL5C4's, not 4/2.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: yass.khay on June 28, 2016, 06:11:33 PM
Where are people getting their VTL5C4/2`s from?

Try these guys:

https://octopart.com/vtl5c4%2F2-vactec-40913801


Just bought a couple here
[email protected]


Small Bear Electronics used to carry them, but I don't seem them in their catalog anymore. Just VTL5C4's, not 4/2.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on June 30, 2016, 02:03:35 PM
I used 1uF @ C102, C104, C105
Almost done, just waiting on the case from across the pond.

Still haven't finalized what to do with this HPF, or slope switch.

Also, I think I implemented the Fred Forsell pot incorrectly, or maybe I'm not understanding how you guys are using it because from what I see in the schematic of Fred's opto sidechain, it's not quite being used the same in this case for "matching"... I could be completely misunderstanding.

(https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13494911_10204898590024607_5634529137238157566_n.jpg?oh=9aa89f0bba907d5817a9f11a49896a7b&oe=57F59091)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: chefducuisine on July 13, 2016, 05:49:40 PM
Here is mine...
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/10926/DAOC_fin_FP1_web.jpg)

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/10926/DAOC_fin_inner1_web.jpg)

Thanks to Frank for the housing and his excellent engraving.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: hitchhiker on July 13, 2016, 11:43:45 PM
dressed in black!  that is a sweet build.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: FJS on July 17, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
According to their site Small Bear has vtl5c4/2 back in stock.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Audioman on August 25, 2016, 08:59:07 AM
HI Unit-8,
First of all many compliments for your build impressive !!!
Since i build my unit in 2011 , now i thought to modify the unit with stepped switch instead of potentiometer
I saw your unit and i noticed that you mount two elma for the compression stage and 4 lorlin on the pcb for the input output stage .
I'm right or not ?
Can you explain me how you proceed and if you can help me for the pcb that you have built ?



Hi all,

After completing all tests and had a long burn-in for tubes as well as for audio transformers i confirm the quality of this compressor. I really love it!
Here are a few pictures.

(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc1.jpg)


(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc2.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: djfatum on September 28, 2016, 12:17:51 PM
 ;)

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14519904_859019314228980_6931722495723639976_n.jpg?oh=dbe695363ed31d639339dd1a2c1f6732&oe=5873481A)

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14519743_859019520895626_3555232479534501183_n.jpg?oh=6fb99722d804adea6f1f3017bb39fa00&oe=58737239)

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14457325_859019594228952_492505176602715461_n.jpg?oh=1825bc63acbe91254b5628f8be130e5e&oe=58668D2E)

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14390932_859019640895614_2290143672692848784_n.jpg?oh=a80e765aca375578da0460b70cb3adc4&oe=58674805)

https://youtu.be/fIfswDKuKM0 (https://youtu.be/fIfswDKuKM0)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: frederickalonso on October 06, 2016, 05:54:58 PM
Is a full kit still available? Would like to build one or two maybe.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: tommypiper on October 26, 2016, 08:33:49 PM
Hi all,

After completing all tests and had a long burn-in for tubes as well as for audio transformers i confirm the quality of this compressor. I really love it!
Here are a few pictures.

(http://www.ml-limited.co.uk/diy/daoc1.jpg)


Beautiful.  What is the red pcb?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on October 27, 2016, 11:04:14 AM
Hello All ,
                     Finally getting back to DIY and this project , couple questions ....  I have a couple 62v 5w zeners left from D-LA2A , was hoping they would work in this project for same purpose in place of Neon lamp  ?

    also I am doing the Kubi mod and happen to have some 470nf  630v axial Solens  mistakenly ordered years ago and was wondering since I can stand them on end, they physically fit in the Cx04 positions.  Looking at pictures of finished units it seems most people used the 100nf or 220nf , just wondering if its worth putting these in this spot now as I have them on hand.

   Thanks in advance    :)   

....  Beautiful work Unit-8    ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 27, 2016, 01:38:55 PM
FWIW I was able to manage fitting 1uF @ C102, C104, C105

There are power resistors underneath the caps. If it gets toasty I plan to remove the resistors @ R11 & R7 & R18 and stand them on end/vertically so they don't fry the undersides of the oversized capacitors.

There was talk of a pole in the sidechain which caused LESS gain reduction with more low end signal, which is what I'm trying to avoid.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on October 27, 2016, 03:20:37 PM
FWIW I was able to manage fitting 1uF @ C102, C104, C105

There are power resistors underneath the caps. If it gets toasty I plan to remove the resistors @ R11 & R7 & R18 and stand them on end/vertically so they don't fry the undersides of the oversized capacitors.

There was talk of a pole in the sidechain which caused LESS gain reduction with more low end signal, which is what I'm trying to avoid.


  THANKS   !!     I was going to do that , but thought the same thing about the heat from the high watt resistors.   in the notes for the "kubi advanced version"  it says "100nF is too small for many applications. Even worse: If you push the compressor harder, more current goes though the diodes and the resistance lowers so that less compression happens"   so I think you're good , I just had not seen or heard of anyone actually putting in a higher value than 220nf , so I'll put the 470nf's in and go with that !!   :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on October 28, 2016, 08:05:48 AM
Quote
There are power resistors underneath the caps. If it gets toasty I plan to remove the resistors @ R11 & R7 & R18 and stand them on end/vertically so they don't fry the undersides of the oversized capacitors.

How about soldering the resistors from the underside of the board?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on October 28, 2016, 09:31:30 AM
Ha !!   I was thinking that also but still concerned about PCB blocking heat dissipation, don't  know how hot they really get. I can fit the 470uf on end with plenty of clearance from resistors. I'm going to mock up checking clearance of resistors on bottom of PCB and floor of case.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 28, 2016, 02:02:21 PM
Trapping the heat under the pcb isn't something I wanted to do.  If those resistors get hot then there's not much chance for convection away from the pcb, in fact the board I would think equilibrium would cause the board to heat up substantially from 6x 2W heaters below, maybe it would work.

There's also the issue of vertically arranging the resistors as aren't they now an effective antenna?

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on October 31, 2016, 08:47:50 AM
Then solder resistors on the topside and caps on the underside ?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: MicDaddy on October 31, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
That is an option, but then no pretty red boxes to look at  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on October 31, 2016, 10:29:05 AM
That is an option, but then no pretty red boxes to look at  8)

  HaHahahaha ....  would also need taller PCB standoffs , not sure I have the extra height in the box  ;)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on November 02, 2016, 11:54:59 AM
ok ... silly newb question ,
                                                          I've never used the mica isolation kits for the voltage regulators before nor the specified heat sinks.
  The insulator instructions seem strait forward enough , but do you / should you use thermal paste on the mica insulator ?? .. or does that now make it electrically conductive ? ...   and the thick pins on the heat sinks that go through the PCB , do you solder them in ??  I notice pad where the pins go through


  Thanks in Advance  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rock soderstrom on November 02, 2016, 03:37:46 PM
Yes and yes.  My thermal paste is not really conductive.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: justinheronmusic on November 15, 2016, 05:19:18 PM
 Ok, so I checked out Small Bear. Are these Vactrols going to work?

 http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/photocouplers-macron-mi1210cle-r/

 Also, does anyone have a current source for a Power Transformer?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 16, 2016, 07:52:20 AM
Ok, so I checked out Small Bear. Are these Vactrols going to work?
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/photocouplers-macron-mi1210cle-r/
no. even if we would live with total different characteristics it is not dual element.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on November 18, 2016, 04:07:51 PM
Yes and yes.  My thermal paste is not really conductive.

 Thanks rock soderstrom  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on November 18, 2016, 04:23:26 PM
Ok, so I checked out Small Bear. Are these Vactrols going to work?

 http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/photocouplers-macron-mi1210cle-r/

 Also, does anyone have a current source for a Power Transformer?

Hey there justinheronmusic,

  I've ordered some custom Power Transformers from Avel Lindberg , it has :

 1 x 220v @ 100ma
 2 x 7v @ 2.5A
 1 x 12v @ 1A
 1 x 45v @ 80ma

 I had a proto type made and has been in use in a quad of NYDave one-bottles and works perfectly ,

I have just order the min. of 10 pieces at $62usd each , I will be using one of these for this project , I got the PCBS and Vactols awhile back , would also be good for D-LA2A    ( DC heaters for both )  let me know if you're interested , I was planning on selling a few here as I don't think I'll use all ten   ::)

... but it will be 8-10 weeks before I have them

Edit - 12v is at 1A
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: febo2609 on November 19, 2016, 02:46:23 PM
Hi guys.
reading this forum I got a strong desire to try to make this compressor but I stuck  in the beginning.
Is there somewhere a complete content how  to make the compressor
schematics diagram, circuit board layout,  connection diagram  of all parts......
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rock soderstrom on November 21, 2016, 08:49:48 AM
Hi guys.
reading this forum I got a strong desire to try to make this compressor but I stuck  in the beginning.
Is there somewhere a complete content how  to make the compressor
schematics diagram, circuit board layout,  connection diagram  of all parts......

Hi, check the first post of this thread, plz! Cheers
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: febo2609 on November 23, 2016, 04:08:08 PM
I read the first post but there is no PCB layout,only the schematics,component placement BOM....or I can not find it...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kml23956 on December 17, 2016, 10:01:52 PM
Are there any vactrols or replacements available for them?
Title: Zener Diodes - Lundahl
Post by: justinheronmusic on December 30, 2016, 02:41:00 PM
- Having trouble tracking down ZD39V. Does anyone have a US source for these? Or a replacement part #?

- Has anyone used the Lundahl 1540 for inputs? If so, how did you mount them, and does it require a zobel network?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 30, 2016, 05:04:06 PM
ZD39: look for a Gyraf G9 US BOM, it is the same PSU schematic
LL1540: like all Lundahls no Zobel required
Title: Re: Zener Diodes - Lundahl
Post by: audiophreak on December 30, 2016, 07:24:01 PM
- Having trouble tracking down ZD39V. Does anyone have a US source for these? Or a replacement part #?

Hello ,
              Here is a link from Mouser , this is a 5w , dont remember what the requirement is , just go to Mouser and put Diode in search and a number of choices will  appear in a drop down list , chose Zener.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ON-Semiconductor/1N5366BRLG/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fJ7m6e1KBCguk0Y0prn3dTs%3d
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: justinheronmusic on January 01, 2017, 03:15:46 PM
ZD39: look for a Gyraf G9 US BOM, it is the same PSU schematic
LL1540: like all Lundahls no Zobel required

Got it, thank you! How did you mount the Lundahl? Or did you mount the Lundhal?

Do you have a photo of your completed D-AOC? Or was it posted earlier?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 01, 2017, 03:54:22 PM
You can find links to loads of photos of finished D-AOCs in the first post.
I don't have build one with Lundahls, however, others did:
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26585.msg633925#msg633925
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 06, 2017, 07:21:20 PM
Really struggling to find the c4/2 for this project unfortunately. Thinking about droping the kubi mod 4 vactrols and just using two. It's possible to use two c4 instead of a c4/2. Thinking about a pcb with the c4 vactrols and extra slope leds, possibly mounted to the rotary switch for changing the slope.

Any risk of increased noise from running wires from the main board to this proposed vactrol board?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: yass.khay on January 08, 2017, 05:24:15 AM
Hi all .
here's mine working perfectly , mixing almost every day .
thanx Volker
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: fragletrollet on January 13, 2017, 03:30:05 AM
Do anyone have the curve-selector pcb`s still available?
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Pusch3l on February 02, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Finished my unit yesterday. Ok almost  ;D
After some debugging on the input transformers and bypass boards i have signal coming thru.

Some Pix
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/pusch3l/D-AOC/20170126_210145_zpsqfburgva.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/pusch3l/D-AOC/20170203_080154_zps1hcl80qo.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/pusch3l/D-AOC/20170203_080114_zpsobvqew2h.jpg)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 01, 2017, 07:01:06 AM
Quick question! How do i wire the power for the relays on the hardware bypass pcbs? which is positive and which negative? You can see that the connections are on the right side and labeled 1,2 here on [silent:arts] picture here:
(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/D-AOC/HWBP36.gif)

Thanks for clearing this up for me!
/j
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 01, 2017, 07:19:26 AM
1 = positive
2 = negative
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 01, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Thanks alot!
/j
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Benny on March 06, 2017, 01:34:23 PM
Finally my second D-AOC is working. This time with switchable curves and Lundahl In/Out.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: bernbrue on March 06, 2017, 01:40:20 PM
Boah!! Tres chic!
Bernd
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 08, 2017, 08:31:39 AM
Its working! now I just need to make the frontpanel :) Where do you guys go for cheaper than schaeffer panels in europe (if possible)?

(also should move the fuse holder to the backpanel, I just totally forgot to drill that hole when I had access to a drillpress.)

cheers!
/j
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Pusch3l on March 08, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
I stick with Frank from Frontpanels.de and i think the other German Guys here too..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on March 12, 2017, 10:02:15 PM
Hello All,
                 I'm about 2/3 completed with this project including the Kubi Mods , Can someone point me to where I might find info on how to hook up the " Curve " LEDs when using two Vactrols,  I've seen a couple pix of others builds, but they only had one Vactrol installed.

  Thanks in Advance  :)
 
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on March 13, 2017, 01:23:08 AM
Hello All,
                 I'm about 2/3 completed with this project including the Kubi Mods , Can someone point me to where I might find info on how to hook up the " Curve " LEDs when using two Vactrols,  I've seen a couple pix of others builds, but they only had one Vactrol installed.

  Thanks in Advance  :)

Excellent question ! I'm in the same situation here..  :)

Actually there's an advanced unit from the user protools,  looks like the second vactrol is installed with a separate switch..  But it's hard to see how they're connected.  I guess in his version it works like vactrol 1 + leds + switchable vactrol 2 but i'm not sure..

tnx
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on March 15, 2017, 08:04:38 AM
Yes i confirm, they are in parallel with the switch doing on/off on the second one.
Best
WT
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on March 15, 2017, 09:47:32 AM
Yes i confirm, they are in parallel with the switch doing on/off on the second one.
Best
WT

Thank you so much for sharing  :)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on March 15, 2017, 11:56:06 AM
Yes i confirm, they are in parallel with the switch doing on/off on the second one.
Best
WT

  Thank you !!  , I'm still a little confused on the actual wiring of LEDs and second vactrol , but will study/search for a while and formulate a better question  ;D
Title: Input Transformer Option
Post by: justinheronmusic on March 16, 2017, 12:47:34 AM
Would this Cinemag transformer work as input transformer for the D-AOC?

http://cinemag.biz/line_input/PDF/CMLI-600-600C.pdf
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on March 19, 2017, 05:15:21 PM
Hello All  :)

      Ok , I did some searching, found the info link on the curves and LEDs , just looking to confirm ( and one member stated ) that using the LEDs and resistors  replaces the necessity of using the second Vactrol ? or is this in addition to.. ?

     Also I have powered up to do the voltage point tests listed in first page , and got -
    243vdc / 244vdc at R128/228
       62.3vdc / 63.2vdc at `R127/227
    222vdc / 221vdc at R111/211
    242vdc / 243vdc at R105/205
    177vdc / 206vdc at R118/218

      Valves installed,  I double checked resistor values at all points associated with those traces , all are good, so I am assuming these readings might be because I don't have the input and output pots and transformers hooked up ??

... any suggestions


EDIT :    Yes , That was it , installed and wired Pots , all voltages are good now !!   ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: protools on March 21, 2017, 07:32:36 AM
Additional...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: audiophreak on March 21, 2017, 08:14:18 PM
Additional...

  Thanks !!   ... and the with both Vactrols that would be highest sensitivity ??
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 27, 2017, 09:51:27 AM
Im trying to get my meters working correctly, but I am having some issues.

Im using 1ma dc meters and i was under the impression i needed a buffer/rectifier for these so I added some  jlm vu buffer kits.

I can get the meter to react to signal, and it shows gain reduction, but I cannot ever get the needle to go above even the halfway point of the scale, even tho i have tried changing both the meter trim pot on the daoc pcb, and the trimpot for the vu buffer pcb.

Any ideas what i need to change to get this working? The meter is happily boucing around without the vu buffer, but I suspect the ballistics are not very VU like in behaviour like this? I cant get the needle pointing above straight up here either (not sure what is normal behaviour for this gain reduction meter circuit?)

 What would you do?
cheers,
j
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on March 30, 2017, 11:23:09 AM
I have decided to just get some proper VU meters instead of fiddling about with this crap. Any good EU sources that you know about? Otherwise I'll probably order from Hairball audio, they seem to have some different meters to choose from.
/J

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 30, 2017, 12:46:39 PM
Many VU Meters in Germany (https://www.don-audio.com/Instrument-Meters)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 13, 2017, 08:05:57 AM
So I bought some of these:
https://www.don-audio.com/Vintage-Meters-VU-Meter-VM2103

If I just want to measure gain reduction and not output VU (im guessing the ballistics are off anyway), do I need a 3.9k resistor in series with this meter or just connect straight to the daoc pcb?
(also the shop homepage says to use 3.6k for this meter?)

Or, do you feel output Vu meter is worth it to implement?

Thanks for helping me!
/j

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 14, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
Sorry for all these questions!  ;D I was  just curious from where  you other people that did use a switch from  g.r  to output meter level tapped  your signal  from the output? Before or after output Transformers? Any particular  spot which is better to tap  the output signal from??

I have it up and running now with only g.r metering together with a 3.9k resistor in series,  so that is a good start. Needles are moving at least and goes  to zero  without any gain reduction going on.

Dont  know if gain reduction is tracking correctly at all yet. I dont have a trimmer in place for r126/r226, so I can only adjust rv104 and  rv204 for zero:ing the meter, right?

Update!: I can get the meters to show gain reduction when sending a sinus tone into the compressor, but they never show the same amount of reduction, ever even though the signal is the same! Its not even close!

Does this mean i need to install some trimmers instead of r126/r226??

Also should I use a 3.9k  or 3.6k resistor in series with the vu (opinions seem to differ here?)

I  kind of wish I didnt  take an eight year  break with this build,  but sooooon its actually finished, lol!  ;D

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on April 15, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
It's still grungy but finally works ! It has 2 sets for the curves, 3th and 4th Vactrol are as an addition in parallel and some of Kubi's mods.... It sounds awesome ! I used a quad of 5814 tubes for in and out and some RTF's for the side chain.. no complains so far.. I'm not 100% sure about the connections from the Lundahls LL1540 on the input.. it works fine except I need to push hard in to get compression. I tested with different stepped attenuators to check out..


Thanks to everyone for the inspiration !
Bless this community !!
 ;D
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on April 15, 2017, 09:24:56 AM
.. another picture
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 15, 2017, 09:48:09 AM
Nice

it works fine except I need to push hard in to get compression
try to wire your LL1540 1:2 for 6dB more input level
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 17, 2017, 05:08:03 AM
Ok,  I read the whole  thread like two times and  I now know  I need  some  trimmers  for accurate:ish  gain  reduction metering. 

Also  im having   this issue where the unit it pretty matched in dual mono ,but way  off in  stereo linked mode.

Attached a picture to  show the difference. This is at max  compression 1k  sinus tone into the compressor.

Im using  dual vactrols ala kubi btw.

What I have understood so far  is that i need to install trimmers  on the anode of  the  vactrols. Is  that  correct?
Trimmers  on both vactrols or  do it  like Holger and  just trim one of them?

If I trim  the stereolink  to better match, will my dual mono balance be way off instead?

/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on April 17, 2017, 06:13:27 AM
Easiest (cleanest) fix is to use the unit in MS mode, not linked stereo.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on April 17, 2017, 06:49:13 AM
Any ideas for simple M/S encoding/decoding? MS option would be very nice to have imo.
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Script on April 17, 2017, 07:10:13 AM
Better to build a dedicated box for MS encode/decode than add into this one (little space). Several options around on this forum.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on May 18, 2017, 09:44:44 AM
Hi,

After testing and debugging the last details, I just can't get rid of my problem with the right channel.. When I pass audio, the frequency response behaves like a 10k High Pass filter .. when I slowly increase the input and output gain, It pops into a "normal" behaviour. but after 10 to 40 minutes, it start to distort and get back to the High Pass "modus". especially with low gain signals.
I measured all the voltages and they are the same on both channels, switched the input and output tubes from the channels,
tried different cables (you never know), without bypass pcb.. ect. No results so far to find the cause of this problem.

Someone familiar with this?
I'm using 5814wa tubes for in and out, could they maybe the reason of this problem? or a broken capacitor?
Would be awesome to get a key where to check next.

EDIT:
Well, i'm not a specialist but it's fixed by accident! Seems like the problem occurred because of bad Grounding.... Learning everyday..



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: kml23956 on June 02, 2017, 09:54:59 AM
The Vactrols have been the reason I have not built this yet. This guy is blowing out Perkin Elmer original one.  If you are looking for them here they are: https://www.pedalpartsandkits.com/vtl5c4-2/

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 02, 2017, 10:17:24 AM
Thanks for the link  8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 03, 2017, 12:58:14 PM
for the Meter:
the circuit is taken from the LA2A
(which uses a VU Meter)
btw, there is a 3K9 resistor needed in series with the VU which is not on the PCB
(since I wanted to have a switchable "Gain Reduction" / Output VU)

some comments from Keith:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25646

and how to calibrate it:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=23253.msg276178#msg276178
(R25 = R126 & R226 in the D-AOC)

My unit is finally finished, except for meter calibration. Im wondering is a 3.9k series resistor correct? Isnt this resistor normally 3.6k? The reason im wondering is that i have 3.9k resistors in series with my meters and when i measure 1.228volts (+4dBu) on my output of the compressor the meter doesnt go up to zero when i switch to VU mode (with no load at the output atm, should I connect a 600ohm resistor across the outout for proper loading?)

Thanks!
/J


Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 03, 2017, 01:12:00 PM
The value depends on your meter, and the level you want to have your 0VU at.

If 3K6 gives your Meter 0VU @ +4dBu use 3K6.

+6dBu is what we use in Germany and where the 3K9 may come from.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 03, 2017, 01:55:49 PM
ok, I understand, thank you!

The meter position is changing depending on what I connect the output to,for instance if I connect to my soundcard the meters goes up quite a bit. Should I calibrate with a 600ohm load across the output xlr pins 2-3?
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 03, 2017, 02:08:48 PM
Calibrate it to your normal standard environment, or your taste.
It makes no sense calibrating it to a 600R load if you don't connect it to a 600R load in your daily use.
It is just a VU meter. You decide where it should show 0VU.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 04, 2017, 03:57:27 AM
Ok, It seems im not finished after all. After trying to calibrate the meter gain reduction, the meter on one channel refuses to stay still anymore. Its pulsing up and down, and it seems to have something to do with the neon light? I have a 100k trimpot instead of r126 r226.

It stays at 0 dB gain reduction for a second, the all of a sudden moves a tiny bit, then back up. Changing the r126 trimpot affects the tempo of the pulsing it seems.

change the neon light on the affected channel? use 1n5371 instead?

attaching a motivational shot of the unit 😎

/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 04, 2017, 06:30:17 AM
It was the lamp! :)
managed to melt the isolation a tiny bit on a cable and one of the nearby wima caps while replacing it. Dont think it matters except it hurts my ocd, but at least now its working!
😎😎😎
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on July 07, 2017, 02:24:00 PM
And.... there the meter pulsing comes back :( Any ideas? I swapped the neon and it worked for a few minutes again. Only a problem on one channel, audio is ok ( though havent checked with a scope or anything)

/J

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on September 06, 2017, 03:29:18 AM
So I swapped the neon lights for the zener diodes in the meter circuit. Now the meters are stable and working properly, but both channels has a big HUM instead! *fail*

Any ideas why? and how to fix it? The meters werent stable with neon lamps, but audio was working perfectly.

Both channels are still working correctly and compresses, gains are working etc, except for this hum that is making me want to tear my hair out and sell this project for a loss and some broken self esteem.

Any help is greatly appreciated, im about to give up on this... :(
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: dagoose on September 07, 2017, 12:10:35 PM
So I swapped the neon lights for the zener diodes in the meter circuit. Now the meters are stable and working properly, but both channels has a big HUM instead! *fail*

Any ideas why? and how to fix it? The meters werent stable with neon lamps, but audio was working perfectly.

Both channels are still working correctly and compresses, gains are working etc, except for this hum that is making me want to tear my hair out and sell this project for a loss and some broken self esteem.

Any help is greatly appreciated, im about to give up on this... :(
/J
I had the same issue with the neon lamps. I simply swapped it with another one and all was fine. I still have a couple of 'm left just in case, I bought them back then in a set of 10 I think.
Please give it another try, it;s a great comp!
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on September 07, 2017, 12:32:37 PM
Thanks for the encouragement! I just dont know where to start... I tested all the voltages and been moving the toroid around, changing grounding...

Could just changing the neon lights to the zener diodes have caused this hum??

 It was working perfectly before except for the meter jumping around a bit before this!

Thanks!
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: druu on September 29, 2017, 07:28:35 PM
Try to check your molex connections. I had a couple cause something similar, they’re not the most reliable connection sometimes..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on October 01, 2017, 01:25:04 AM
Thanks for the encouragement! I just dont know where to start... I tested all the voltages and been moving the toroid around, changing grounding...

Could just changing the neon lights to the zener diodes have caused this hum??

 It was working perfectly before except for the meter jumping around a bit before this!

Thanks!
/J

Is the hum still there if you disconnect the meters? One thing I noticed is the lack of a star ground in your build (unless I can't see it) I would also recommend adhering to the Grounding 101 that Ian Bell wrote on this forum sometime ago. I know you said it was working before you swapped out the neon bulbs, but I'm not sure if that would become the culprit . Dagoose stated he swapped his neon bulbs out and apparently everything was fine.

Thanks!

Paul

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on October 01, 2017, 05:58:34 AM
Yup, still hum without meters attached unfortunately.

There is a star ground just next to the IEC btw 😊

It worked perfectly before i changed the neon bulbs with the same grounding config. I also replaced a wima mks-4 cap that i had accidently melted a bit of the insulation on. But its exactly the same kind, should work right? Maybe i should double check so the soldering job is ok there?

Will also reseat all the molex connectors and see if that makes any difference.

Thanks!
/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on October 01, 2017, 06:11:57 AM
Does it hum with the unit bypassed? You could put the neons back in one side or both and see if it goes back to being clean.

Thanks!

Paul
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Jonkan on October 01, 2017, 06:37:58 AM
bypass is clean, but its relay bypass so it makes sense.

I might have snipped the leads when desoldering the neons, so... hard to recycle.... 😬

I guess I could always order new neons if I can find any.... Any leads in europe?

/J
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: jbvdwal on October 19, 2017, 09:56:12 AM
First post here!

One that was built for me, gave the ghost some time ago, but its probably also cause R1 isnt looking all to healthy? haha

Right channel gives slight signal albeit not effected by in/out and compression, left side nothing.

I'll probably give it out to pieter kloos from void studio to fix, just wanted to see opinions on this here first.



Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on October 19, 2017, 03:25:30 PM
First post here!

One that was built for me, gave the ghost some time ago, but its probably also cause R1 isnt looking all to healthy? haha

Right channel gives slight signal albeit not effected by in/out and compression, left side nothing.

I'll probably give it out to pieter kloos from void studio to fix, just wanted to see opinions on this here first.

Welcome jbvdwal,

Doesn't look so good.. In most cases i've seen here, that resistor gets very hot. You should connect at least a 10 watt resistor away from the board. That helped for me. It has been explained here before as well.

Cheers

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on November 08, 2017, 04:22:51 PM
Hello, Everyone,

I have a stuffed board that has been sitting in a box for some time and soon I would like to complete it. I still haven't determined which transformers to use and wanted to see if of those who have built these with the intent on using it for mastering applications could share your findings regarding transformer preference in this circuit.

Thanks!

Paul
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Hobbyist on November 08, 2017, 04:38:33 PM
Hello, Everyone,

I have a stuffed board that has been sitting in a box for some time and soon I would like to complete it. I still haven't determined which transformers to use and wanted to see if of those who have built these with the intent on using it for mastering applications could share your findings regarding transformer preference in this circuit.

Thanks!

Paul

I'm very happy with 4x Lundahl LL1540 in my unit  :)

Cheers

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 07, 2018, 06:49:10 AM
So i've had my DAOC up and running for about a year now. Absolutely love it and it had been a joy when mastering. Also my first valve build but very nice to build. Did the threshold mods and kubi mods except dual vactrol.

Just a few loose ends to sort out and could do with a bit of help.

1. Heat - This might just be me but this thing kicks out a lot of heat. The power transformer (Dual G pultec toroidal one from don audio ) gets warm to the touch, including the mounting bolt. I am using a separate one for the relays and meter lights. The regulators are all ok to touch and mounted to the chassis. The 6.3v one gets a bit warm over time but is using the back panel for dispersion. I have made vent holes in top but that hasn't helped that much. 

Now is this normal or should i be worried? I expect quite a bit of heat for the 6 valves but the power transformer feels like a red flag for me.

2. Hum - There is a low hum with no signal passing through. The hum is inaudible when the compressor is being used but i would like to reduce it further if possible. I have used following star ground scheme, relay gnd, XLR pin 1 and chassis tab, main pcb gnd and  IEC earth all go to one point near the IEC inlet. This normally setup works great for me. 

I have the mains power switch in the centre of the front panel and the wiring runs close to the main pcb and wiring. I've tried to separate as much as possible but i wonder if this is the cause?

3. stereo tracking - Now i'm not to bothered by this but worth a mention. Both channels can be set to track ok together without stereo switch engaged. Once the switch is engaged though the right channel will always be 1-3 db behind the left in compression amount.  Anything to be done here or just the way it is?

Any help much appreciated.

Here's some shots before i tidied up the wiring. 8)
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 07, 2018, 06:50:52 AM
The guts
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Pusch3l on January 08, 2018, 06:43:05 AM
1. The Toroid meets the Spec from first post?

2. Did you use an Spectrum Analyser where the hum is?

3. Anywhere in the Thread is a Post about replacing Rx26 with a trimpot and add a trimpot to the Vactrols.

Greets
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 08, 2018, 11:33:02 AM
Yes the toroid meets the spec unless i've overlooked something.

Primary: 2 x 115v (230v)
Secondarys:
220V 0,1A
9V 2,5A
5V 0,5A

2. The hum is around classic 60Hz.

3. Thanks for this i will give it a try!

Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Pusch3l on January 08, 2018, 01:39:47 PM
Since the Toroid is from Aaron it has a mu-metal shielding. Did you try place it flat on the bottom of the case? If that helps nothing i would put an eye onto the Carnhills. Theyre not shielded..
DaveP wrote somehting about Transformer placing  on GDiY.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 25, 2018, 10:20:14 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

Didn;t think about the carnhills being unsheilded, space is pretty tight inside so not much room to move them about.

I haven't tried moving the toroid so will give that a try. it is from don Aaron but i'm not sure if its shielded type or not.

I measured the hum on a spectrum analyser.

First one is no signal, interestingly it covers 60-125Hz.

Second one has 1kHz sine passed through and compression happening, as you can see the hum drops a lot and is barely audible, it's still there though.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Neko Neko on January 25, 2018, 10:20:50 AM
and the 1KHz one...
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on May 07, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
Hello guys,

Has someone here experimented with alternate, maybe more silent HT PSU's on the D-AOC ? I mean, it is not a noisy unit by any means but in a mastering setup it could use some extra dB's of less noise :-) I've done extra shielding, trafo rotating and such but i wonder if the noisefloor can be further improved by the means of a different PSU.   :P :P :P
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: rock soderstrom on May 08, 2018, 03:00:36 AM
Hello guys,

Has someone here experimented with alternate, maybe more silent HT PSU's on the D-AOC ? I mean, it is not a noisy unit by any means but in a mastering setup it could use some extra dB's of less noise :-) I've done extra shielding, trafo rotating and such but i wonder if the noisefloor can be further improved by the means of a different PSU.   :P :P :P

Hi, I do not know your setup but If you really need less PSU noise for mastering I would outhouse the transformer or the whole PSU..
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: Silvas on May 08, 2018, 09:06:18 PM
Hello guys,

Has someone here experimented with alternate, maybe more silent HT PSU's on the D-AOC ? I mean, it is not a noisy unit by any means but in a mastering setup it could use some extra dB's of less noise :-) I've done extra shielding, trafo rotating and such but i wonder if the noisefloor can be further improved by the means of a different PSU.   :P :P :P

I just answered my own question and installed a discrete PSU on it., derived from Kingston's  M670 PSU.  Speaking strictly of noise, no difference really. Maybe 1dB lower, measured. Trafos and shielding will have much more impact (i did some mumetal shields a few months ago and reduced a bit the hum). however, i'm curious about how the discrete PSU will affect the overall unit's sound (if it affects it at all).  Will report back after a few months of continuous use :-) Going back to the original PSU is just a couple solder joints away.
Title: Re: D-AOC PCBs - the building and help Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on May 09, 2018, 01:04:34 AM
Will report back after a few months of continuous use :-) Going back to the original PSU is just a couple solder joints away.
Yes, please report back your findings  8)