GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Dynamic Processors => Topic started by: Grand Master Audio on August 31, 2008, 05:44:13 AM

Title: [Build] Neve 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 31, 2008, 05:44:13 AM
Hi All,

I am looking for any info or circuit diagrams for the NEVE B191 / B192 / B185 / B283 circuit diagrams for use in the 2254.

i have searched and now have the 2254 hook up diagram of the four boards but not the circuit diagrams for the separate B*** boards.

if any one can help that would be super!
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: RedNoise on August 31, 2008, 07:01:26 AM
Hi Sinister!!!
I've some schem about 191/192/283...
Send me your email via pm.
Cheers!
Edit...After a short search , I also have 185 schem!
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 31, 2008, 07:04:07 AM
you star!! i must of missed that...

PM'd!
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: RedNoise on August 31, 2008, 07:22:40 AM
Email sent!
Hope you'll find what you need in those schem!! :green:
Please let me know if you receive  them Pete!
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on August 31, 2008, 05:27:24 PM
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28865&start=15

My post has a pretty good link... but check it to the hard to read version.

You doing a TAT Case with Tat provided PCB? that link is the spot.

I've got the above parts myself and finally found the correct orientated switches to match the front panel layout.  Not a simple fix for what could have been simple by silkscreening the legend in a different order.

Maybe there should be a Official 2254 help/info thread?

copied link to this page to help in the future.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~theostr/str-electronics/DIY/Studio_2254.htm
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 01, 2008, 04:40:29 AM
Hi Kazper,

yes i think i have those PCB's but i got them from a friend here in the UK,

I dont have a case or any thing yet, ohh apart from the meters, but just about to start collecting parts, so any help or pointers there would be greatly appreciated.

best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 01, 2008, 07:04:43 AM
Also, do you know what the value of the "limit level" pot is?

Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 01, 2008, 02:21:37 PM
Glad that the boards were from the same design, that will help you allot.


http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/neveinfo/neve2254aSchem.jpg


http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/neveinfo/neve2254eSchem.jpg


Your stuff is probably found at Dale's site

http://www.10000cows.com/Neve2254Stuff.htm (http://www.10000cows.com/Neve2254Stuff.htm)

There is 2 switch drawings posted there.

SW2 is the Limit level Switch(SW9) your asking about (22.2K total), take in consideration that the R29 and R30 are shown in that drawing. A pot replacement of that switch is only 4.7-5K

SW1 is the Comp Threshold Switch (SW3), Could be a 1K Pot.

Geoff T said most of the time the Switch was removed and a Pot was replaced.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 02, 2008, 04:33:25 PM
superb! thank you very much.

well im starting the painfull task of making a component list as we speak, im going with the component values on the circiuit diagrams as the screen print on the pcbs seem to have different values which is a little odd.

also there seems to be two verions of the 2254? one with the BA283, 192, 191 and 185 which is what i am doing..

and another with a BA340 output amp? whcih also has input & output attenuators..

so what dod people do about the interstage 10467 transformer? i cant find any info on that one, only on a 10468...

thanks again,

best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Tekay on September 02, 2008, 05:06:35 PM
Two version of 2254, A and E both with BA283
BA340 was use in the 2264 and in the 33609 (class AB)
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 02, 2008, 05:15:27 PM
thanks Tekay,

really great to know this,

this has to be my fav project to date!

 :thumb:
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 02, 2008, 05:33:45 PM
and another with a BA340 output amp? whcih also has input & output attenuators

That's basically the 33609

http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

This is the guy who designed the 2254. I think he may have had a little hand in the 33609 which I believe is a updated version of the 2254 into a 2RU space with some modifications. I also think the 33609 had a couple different output amp types.

3 transformers over the 2254's 4 pieces, Amp configurations etc..

Go to AMS neve and pull the 33609 manual, there is a great deal of similarities.

There is more 33609 information here, and a good description of the 2254 circuit on the web site I posted here from the man who designed it.

There is also a calibration procedure for the 2254 floating around somewhere. I believe it came from that site also.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 03, 2008, 02:47:59 AM
thanks kazper! this is really turning in to a 2254 help thread! cool.

another thing that im not sure on is the PSU, i have seen references to 20v, would you know if + & - 20v would be correct?
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: RedNoise on September 03, 2008, 03:33:26 AM
Hi there!!
May I ask a noob question here??I plan to "build" an IJResearch's 33609.I would like to know what are the main differences with 2254???(I mean :ClassA?Sound?etc , etc ...)
Many thx.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 03, 2008, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"
thanks kazper! this is really turning in to a 2254 help thread! cool.

another thing that im not sure on is the PSU, i have seen references to 20v, would you know if + & - 20v would be correct?


Please rename the thread to  the "offical 2254 support thread". I'm no expert. I just got a set of PCB's, case off another member and was searchings for info on my own project. There is a lack of information for the 2254 in one place. It could almost become meta worth if we had the pictures and stuff hosted.

Igor probably knows the most about a 2254, he has built/ worked on a few I believe.

The power is typical of the mfg +24V and 0V DC... it's in the schematics. Make sure to make the main 24V resistors are at least 1/2W. You can also follow the 33609 original manual recommendation for Resistor values because there so close in design. I took a look at it this morning over breakfast and lots of information so read carefully.


IJR 33609 is probably a easier build, boards are solid and Igor is always helpful on the thread. I got that burning a hole on my bench also. Plus there is no PCB's around for this project that I'm aware of at the moment. You could home etch all of them though.

I picked this kit up from another Lab member when I wasn't sure if I would do the 33609 or not. I'll probably do both in the next year or so. It's the Iron thats killing me to get them done. I have some of it slotted for another project but I'm thinking of slotting it over and completing these projects first.

I've also contemplated using Cinimag transformers for the 2254 build.

Also note that there is a 1RU version of this coming from the mfg as a reissue. This project also could be easy done on one PCB with some decent PCB mounted switches and pots. I'm sure that some of the better PCB designers around here could accomplish this pretty easy and make this complex monster a simpler project.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 03, 2008, 05:56:02 PM
Hi Kazper,

yes me too, I got given the PCB's, but this is what I have just worked out about them, the PCB's I have, not all of them are the correct schematic, it looks like the B191, B192 & 185 have had their circuits changed, possibly for copy right maybe? I then did a search and found that Geoff Tanner also mentioned this in a thread..

there is no point in making some thing similar is there?? who knows it might not even work!

I'd like to make it as close to the original as possible so I think new pcb's are in order, I'm considering getting my pcb designing skills back out of the bag for this one,

what are your thoughts?

Best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: ruairioflaherty on September 03, 2008, 06:13:56 PM
Hi Pete,

I spent about 2 weeks searching for every possible bit of info out there on the 2254, 2264, 33609, Igor's monster 2254/33609 and the various other Neve compressors and knockoffs.  I was trying to really understand what's the same in all of these and what differentiates them.

There is great info here, on Gearslutz (!), PSW and of course on the Aurora forum as well as other random spots.  Take the time to really understand what's happening before you make a move on a pcb.

The 33609 is that much easier to build because it's one transformer less and is more or less on a single PCB.  Igor's kit for this with Purusha's case is really nice and you can get all of the original iron reasonably easily bar the 10468s (Carnhills will be close enough I think!).  I have the kit, iron and switches and zero spare time but I'll get there someday.

For whatever reason I find this range of compressors fascinating even though I've never had the pleasure of using one so I understand your enthusiasm.  I may even have something to offer on the 2254 front in the future...will keep you in the loop if I do.

Best of luck,
Ruairi
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 03, 2008, 06:37:06 PM
Hi Ruairi,

obsession is a great thing...well my wife does not think so but I do..
;)

yes I think it would be a great project to do but its that blasted interstage tx...
mmmmm...what to do....

great talking to you,

Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: ruairioflaherty on September 03, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
That's the first time I've ever noticed the 10467 designation on that scan.  I just checked another schemo I had for the 2254a and it has a 10468.  Also if you look at the BA185 schemo on from Dale's (amazing) photos you'll see a 10468 hanging off of the end of the board.

My understanding here is that the 31267 acting 2:1 and dropping the level along with the pad.  This lower level is used to feed the diode bridge and then it is stepped up again (partially) by the 10468 wired 1:2.  If you download the 33609 manual from the Neve site you'll get a great run through of this front end in the circuit description.

Cheers,
Ruairi
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 04, 2008, 02:27:16 AM
http://www.aesproaudio.com/?page=vintage&id=9
Some more goodies for you...

BA191
(http://www.aesproaudio.com/images/consoles/Vintage-Neve-Cards_10.jpg)
BA192
(http://www.aesproaudio.com/images/consoles/Vintage-Neve-Cards_3.jpg)
BA185
(http://www.aesproaudio.com/images/consoles/Vintage-Neve-Cards_2.jpg)
BA283 (AM Version so 1/2 Filled)
(http://www.aesproaudio.com/images/consoles/Vintage-Neve-Cards_15.jpg)
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 04, 2008, 02:40:23 AM
From what I can remember when I was looking at the PCB's I have, there schematics and the ones I have found.

PCB Layout is very close to the same.
PCB numbers don't match exactly.
Schematic and Original schematic is laid out the same, just slight variations on some values. One board has lots of variances, more than the other ones.

I've stuffed most of the boards resistors. I think I came to the conclusion to have the home Etch and schematic handy. Stuff the original schematics values that there is no conflicting issues, verifying the connections to other components as a check. I think I have 90% of the resistors stuffed going through it that way including some transistors and diodes.

For the diode bridge, look at the 33609 thread (match them with a DMM) I had a good quantity of diodes so I found enough to all test the same and stuffed the HBX 31 area on the BA185. I also had lots of tested diodes so close from matchmaking so I stuffed those on the BA192
Title: Pics
Post by: kazper on September 04, 2008, 02:53:45 AM
from http://www.coralsound.com/exileshop.html
(http://www.coralsound.com/images/DSCN3496.JPG)

Some more Under the hood pics
http://vintageking.com/site/files/2254recap.htm
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: RedNoise on September 04, 2008, 03:14:33 AM
Quote from: "kazper"
I'm sure that some of the better PCB designers around here could accomplish this pretty easy and make this complex monster a simpler project.


I hope you're right , I would certainly want one if someone designed a 1RU and easy to build 2254!!
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 04, 2008, 04:25:17 AM
Hi Ruairi,

great spot on the 10468, completely missed that. now reading the 33609 manual...makes interesting reading indeed.

Hi Kaper,

superb photos! they are yours?

well comparing my pcb's, they are indeed the same layout although mine have silk screen legends.

and upon closer inspection it seems our pcb's match Dales photo's schemos and not all the ones with the PDF that comes with them, which of course is excellent news.

OK, so whats next for you on this? I'll think ill stuff these and see where we get, i do believe now that these pcbs are good enough to build from.

if it all works out i may consider doing a sinlge PCB design, i wonder what the legal implications would be?

best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 04, 2008, 04:36:01 AM
http://www.ams-neve.com/site/Products/Outboard/NewClassic/2254R/2254R.aspx

they just have been faster
 :green:  :green:  :green:
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 04, 2008, 06:02:26 AM
very sexy! but there is no fun in buying one is there!  :green:
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: okgb on September 04, 2008, 08:14:13 AM
I have the boards [ stuffed , front panel  , signal xfmrs & edgemeters
but it may be a project i never get to , anyone interested ?
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: RedNoise on September 04, 2008, 08:16:03 AM
Hi Okgb , how much do you want???
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 04, 2008, 09:20:06 AM
Quote from: "sinestaraudio"


Hi Kaper,

superb photos! they are yours?


Nope, there off the link from above them. Something some good old boy had posted here sometime and I found it again googling for the card numbers. Was trying to make sure I didn't misrepresent any of the photo's as my own.

My PCB's have silkscreen also, but look like home etch or a low end mfg, IE no solder mask on the backside and have no gold plating at the edge connector. Maybe they are from the same batch?

There is some good information regarding the HBX31 diode bridge on Geoff's site. Basically the HBX31 is a long since available part and possibly it's a germanium part. My guess is that the same issue came up with the 33609 so they matched a set of more common 1N4153 diodes.

More info: http://www.auroraaudio.net/dcforum/DCForumID1/321.html


I posed the question regarding the meter, specifically for Tat's case.
A new style meter that should fit as a replacement in a real 2254 from Elfa.se P/N: 76-301-06  Manufactures info Fujita EW-60 DC 1mA big thanks to Crisotop in the link bellow for that. I have the Ward beck option which uses are Simpson meters, you would need to build a bracket to mount in Tat's case.

Again: New meter with thanks to Crisotop and Jens
Avalible through
Elfa.se
P/N: 76-301-06
Fijita EW-60 DC 1ma

Old meter info thanks to Dan Alexander or Ward Beck
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject:   
Apparently according to Dan Alexander the 2254 shares the same meter as a Ward Beck M455, except it uses a different scale.

In the manual for the M455 it lists the meter as a Bach-Simpson 1452W 2K132-6.


More meter info : http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=27060
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on September 04, 2008, 09:37:01 AM
I put my boards waaay down in the drawer (personal notes: too complicated and way to expensive project) - but maybe I should dig them up again :green:

anyways, keep the info coming, I'll try to post a pic of my cards, maybe someone is about to build this thing with the same pcbs.

take care,
christoph
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 04, 2008, 09:37:13 AM
For Tat's Case only switch I can find to replace SW8, and work in the case would be a NKK M2044SS1W01-R0,  a DP3T ON-ON-ON TYPE

One thing of interest is the voltage of the capacitors. In doing some reading Geoff made a comment in regards to some of the voltages and that there is a difference in the makeup and that a higher is not always better in some of these circuits. I'm sure that some of the differences on the new schematics may be the consideration to the changed resistor and cap values to more commonly available cap values.

On the BA283 board I went with the normal replacements values that have been well documented and seem to work fine in other builds like the EZ1290.

KaZ
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 04, 2008, 09:39:32 AM
Superb work kazper!

Greg I PM'd you. Ill take it if its available.

Best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on September 04, 2008, 09:49:37 AM
I missed the Tat case, but that should be the smallest problem :D

Big :thumb: up Kazper, I'm happy someone cares about this project!

there's also some interesting info from jens using wonderlandaudio pcbs (I guess the same that the most of us are using) @   nrgrecording (http://www.nrgrecording.de/nrg/viewtopic.php?t=404&highlight=2254)

I'll try to translate the first two posts:

1.) Silkscreening is not correct, some part numbers differ from the original schematic

2.) If you want to build it to 100% Neve specs you have mod the B185 card: Cut the connection from + of 470uF lytic and collector of T4; ad a connection between collector of T4 to powersupply 'F'.

hth, christoph
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 04, 2008, 09:53:26 AM
good spot cristoph!

 :thumb:
Title: 2254 lite
Post by: nielsk on September 04, 2008, 10:01:09 AM
C'mon guys, it's just a few little boards and some wire to string 'em together!
I had one of these that was built as a compressor only version on the bench some years ago, so I drew it out then, if you want to try a cheaper, more simple unit. It uses a 185, a 191, and a 283, with one 10468 interstage, a 20 pos threshold switch, and two 6 position switches for attack and release
If anyone has more boards for these I'd love to get some....
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on September 04, 2008, 11:08:58 AM
Quote
C'mon guys, it's just a few little boards and some wire to string 'em together!


haha, that's what I think about every project, but somehow it takes a lot longer than you think :D

christoph
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Igor on September 04, 2008, 11:18:44 AM
Hi!

Quote
haha, that's what I think about every project, but somehow it takes a lot longer than you think :D


That' the point!!!!

 :grin:  :green:  :grin:  :green:  :grin:  :green:  :thumb:

I think the most wanted and usefull thing is
1ru 2254 soundpath + 33609's sidechain
without limiter section,  2 boards- one for front pannel controlls,
second for audio, with separated power supply board.
Benefits: no hardcore wiring; 3 trunny's; hardware bypass;
possibility to add attack and switchable sidechain hpf to compressor.
And no need for ba283 cards-it will be on motherboard.

This project definately don't comes more complicated than G1176.
And a bit easier than 33609.
There's a lot of people from this forum who finnished 33609's.

Don't think someone want to mess with wiring a lot of stuff
with wires together...just think about all these comp's installed on switches and time to find errors etc ;)

As well, I have allready designed and tested boards for 225433609 hybrid.

Pics:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/225433609_aug08_3.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/225433609_aug08_2.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/225433609_aug08_1.jpg)
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on September 04, 2008, 11:29:05 AM
:shock:  :shock:  :shock: Igor, you are killing me!

awesome, maybe I'll wait a bit longer with my build ;)

cheers
christoph
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on September 05, 2008, 07:42:42 AM
(http://www.garage27.com/exchange/DIY/N2254.jpg)

Are these the cards the rest of you is using?

regards,
christoph
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 05, 2008, 08:33:19 AM
yes, those are the ones i have.

best
Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 05, 2008, 09:35:45 AM
Yep those be the ones...

Everything for those PCB's is here. Gerbers, schematics , complete overlays etc..

http://www.xs4all.nl/~theostr/str-electronics/DIY/Studio_2254.htm
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 05, 2008, 09:54:08 AM
Quote from: "crisotop"
I missed the Tat case, but that should be the smallest problem :D

Big :thumb: up Kazper, I'm happy someone cares about this project!

there's also some interesting info from jens using wonderlandaudio pcbs (I guess the same that the most of us are using) @   nrgrecording (http://www.nrgrecording.de/nrg/viewtopic.php?t=404&highlight=2254)

I'll try to translate the first two posts:

1.) Silkscreening is not correct, some part numbers differ from the original schematic

2.) If you want to build it to 100% Neve specs you have mod the B185 card: Cut the connection from + of 470uF lytic and collector of T4; ad a connection between collector of T4 to powersupply 'F'.

hth, christoph


I'm looking this over quickly and it seems that T4 on PCB and documents is T3 on Neve schematics.

Will look over it when I get home and have PCB in hand.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Igor on September 05, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
D-leted (double post)
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Igor on September 05, 2008, 08:47:20 PM
I don't think it is very good idea to build pseudo-original
clone of 2254 on pseudo-original pcb's in a way it was done
more or less 40 years ago. Anyway.
Good luck to everyone who wants to mess with this hardcore wiring...

Just my $0.20 ;)

5 years ago, when I had a lot of time and DIY
of stidio equipment was only hobby, I had all original 2254's
cards and trunny's.
Count in good equipped lab, excellent military surplus store
in 10km from my house,  and some skills in electronics.
Then...after just making some rough
time calculations, came this :
http://www.geocities.com/igor_jazz/225433609.html

Guys, I am crazy enough to build full format mixer by myself.
All these messy projects are big mistake, just think how many time
you can save for snooker, yoga, or drinking beers on the beach or pub or...whatsoever... just think twice ;)

 :cool:
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 06, 2008, 02:53:31 AM
I agree completely with you Igor, unfortunately I already have psudo pcb's as well as others around. I've contemplated using other type transformers simply put because I have your 33609 project and think it will work for me, where I can play around with the 2254 and not worry.

Two/three pcb design would be a simplified project and more current. Your project is a excellent and well thought out design, since it was a modified version I didn't refer it because the origin of the thread was based on 2254 only.

Like I said a design that is more based on a 1RU with good quality pcb mount switches would be really cool, but the MFG is now offering something just like that.

I'm not worried about the wiring aspect of the project, myself.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 06, 2008, 03:44:57 AM
No on the contrary, its a challenge to rise to.

I will def do one of your 33609 when the PCB's are next available, for now i'm enjoying working this monster out and in the amazing event of actually ending up with a working unit, what a sense of satisfaction that will be.

thanks Igor,

respect

Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 06, 2008, 02:58:20 PM
re the changes to our B185 PCB's

as well as the fore mentiond

Cut the connection from + of 470uF lytic and collector of T4; ad a connection between collector of T4 to powersupply 'F'.

also there is,

R14 should be 1k8
C7 should be 150uf
R22 should be 2k7
R23 should be 2k2
C11 should be 22uf


best

Pete
[/code]
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: lookn4tone on September 06, 2008, 05:15:21 PM
What are you guys doing about the elma switches (4 per channel, I believe)?  I started doing that build a while ago, and got side tracked with other projects.  Mine is nearly done, but I don't have the switches.  If there is enough interest, I could step up for a group buy.  Thoughts?

Steve
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 06, 2008, 08:13:44 PM
I was going to buy direct and or get some goldpoint ones.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 06, 2008, 11:42:32 PM
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_B185BACK.jpg)

Larger: http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=10090&pos=-2599

Thanks to Pedro (wounderlandAudio) for this picture.

This helps clarify the BA185 Problems.

1- white
Bridge the top with the capacitor leg, place a little shrink on the leg to protect ya project and jump it to strip on the far right.

2- Blue
reverse the Bax13/1N4148 from the silkscreen

3-Yellow
Separate the connections from the large area.
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Grand Master Audio on September 07, 2008, 06:35:02 AM
Hi Kazper,

are you saying that some of these differences might be due to the PCB designer trying to improve on the original design?

best

Pete
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 07, 2008, 02:11:37 PM
I'm thinking he may have had more info then we do. Rather it be a real card or multiple schematics.

In trying to make it work as the Dale schematics the changes I posted, I left some stuff out. Further investigation today (and re reading your post)pointed something else out so let me make another picture and post it.

I can tell you this I'm sure there was a mistake made on the PCB in the left hand corner. In comparing the original card to STR's stuff  D6 is backwards and that helps prove it.

The fix is Simply if you do everything I had posted before but in the upper left, remove R25 from it's connection to L and connect it to the cut connection point with the C9, R20,D6 (leave as silkscreened). I got sidetracked yesterday when I was competing that. This can be done plenty of ways.

Honestly I don't know enough to say that as designed and made wouldn't work fine. I can say that in comparison to known Neve documents... this is how to get there.

Kevin
Title: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 23, 2008, 12:14:02 PM
Quote from: "lookn4tone"
What are you guys doing about the elma switches (4 per channel, I believe)?  I started doing that build a while ago, and got side tracked with other projects.  Mine is nearly done, but I don't have the switches.  If there is enough interest, I could step up for a group buy.  Thoughts?

Steve


Let me know, I'll probably buy enough for mine.

But from the looks of things the Limit Switch can be replaced with a 4K7 Lin pot between R30 (2K7) and R29 (15K)

If you do the Switches, keep in mind that the resistors or on the switch as shown on the schematic.

It also looks like the threshold can be a 1K Log pot.

On Geoff's site he had talked about one of the switches always getting replaced when serviced by other's (non Neve)with a pot.
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on December 06, 2008, 10:16:02 PM
http://homepages.tesco.net/~howard.ellis/neve/Diagrams/Neve%20Limiter%20Compressor.pdf (http://homepages.tesco.net/~howard.ellis/neve/Diagrams/Neve%20Limiter%20Compressor.pdf)
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on December 25, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
Working on this and wanted to toss some more part numbers for those who have the Tat case

Link Switch
DPDT on-off-on

Mouser: 633-M202301-RO
NKK P/N: M2023SS1W01-RO

Power, Comp ON/OFF, Bypass
DPDT on-none-on

Mouser: 633-M202201-RO
NKK P/N: M2022SS1W01-RO

Note: I plan on using a relay PCB for the bypass functions

Limit Switch
DP3T on-on-on

Mouser: 633-M204401-RO
NKK P/N: M2044SS1W01-RO

Note: This is too big to use for the meter switch (but will need to be made to work, to match text layout on front panel. Drill out the switches mounting hole on the inner panel making it slightly larger(make elliptical towards the right, away from the meter hole). Install the meter as far left as you can with the switch as far right. It looks like it will work with out going into more complications.

I've measured it out, but because I lack the workshop space and still have a large amount of tooling packed away I can't finish this part yet and will get around to it in the near future. I'll post some pictures when it's further along.
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on March 14, 2009, 03:28:16 PM
Rotary switches Mouser 105-13572

Just shorting 2x6 Lorlins....
For Recovery's and ratio

Need 6 for the stereo Tat case as seen here: (same as the one I'm working with)

(http://purusha.smokinggunrecording.com/diy/2254-1.jpg)
(http://purusha.smokinggunrecording.com/diy/2254-3.jpg)
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on March 27, 2009, 08:03:58 PM
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_0077.JPG)

Like always two steps forward and one step back till next parts order.

Kaz
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: sintech on March 27, 2009, 08:13:34 PM
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_0077.JPG)

Like always two steps forward and one step back till next parts order.

Kaz

WOW!!!! looking really good so far ;-) going to start my build in the next month. Do your meters have VU scales? and where did you get them?
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on March 28, 2009, 12:03:56 PM
Congrats Kasper, at least someone is pushing forward on the original 2254. How did you mount the boards inside?

cheers
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on March 28, 2009, 12:06:44 PM
Like always two steps forward and one step back till next parts order.

Kaz

WOW!!!! looking really good so far ;-) going to start my build in the next month. Do your meters have VU scales? and where did you get them?

Meters are unmodified VU's from a pair of scavenged Ward Beck modules. Wounder land audio pointed out that I need to modify them to work in the circuit and even offered me a single or pair of scales, that I've never seem to get in my hands. I'd be happy with a 1:1 scan with measurements so I could make my own..

There is a link to a part number from elfa for a 0-1 ma or 0-1/2 ma meter that is a exact drop in, also noted what WBS module this came from.

If your after meters lab member Nelisk is looking for a pair and said he is having a hard time sourcing them and the elfa option is fairly hard to buy from if your in the states.

Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on March 28, 2009, 12:15:01 PM
Congrats Kasper, at least someone is pushing forward on the original 2254. How did you mount the boards inside?

cheers
christoph

I'm still working that out, but it will be using angle, square and flat stock aluminum. I don't have all the tools I used to have before I moved last November.

I'll take some pictures and provide some ruff estimates on dimensions and post here when I get to it.
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on March 28, 2009, 12:28:57 PM
cool - thanks for that, I still wonder how to mount everything in a box...

best,
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on March 31, 2009, 01:13:39 AM
Hope this helps you out :)

(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_0082.JPG) The joy's of renting a pad, enjoy the beauty of my strung out AV wires in the background..
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_0083.JPG)I'll be installing it like this, with small L brackets used to keep it vertical. (Next update)
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_0085.JPG) Sorry for the blurry photo, it's from my cellphone.

It's going to be rather tuff on fitting all this inside the case. I think that working in a 3U case would be ideal. I'm trying hard to work within the mean's of this case, no matter how hard it has been.

Thats 1/2" (12.5mm) at 1/8"(3-3.2mm) thick aluminum angle with perfect inner corners (some of them have rounded corners). Total length was 3" (75mm) with the first hole (BA283 board) about 20-22mm from the starting edge, followed by 3 more holes every 15.5mm. Distance from the edge is what ever it takes to get you to center of the hole of your connector (3mm on mine).

I plan in making something to help support the PCB's out of nonconductive plastic. Better get good at this as I have to do it again on a EQ.

Kaz
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on March 31, 2009, 03:11:06 AM
thanks for the insight - looks very neat! I might go for a 3U Panel (weren't the original 2254 3U?) and mount the pcbs vertivally..

please keep us posted kazper, I want to collect as much info as possible before I start my build  8) (which won't be happening before mid-summer).

best,
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on May 23, 2009, 12:53:55 PM
I happen to have matched 1n4153 at home - could I use them as 4148 replacement for the diode bridge? they have slightly different usages as far as I'm able to compare the datasheets, but the basic specs look the same?

thanks!
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on May 28, 2009, 06:25:06 AM
Quote
re the changes to our B185 PCB's

as well as the fore mentiond

Cut the connection from + of 470uF lytic and collector of T4; ad a connection between collector of T4 to powersupply 'F'.

also there is,

R14 should be 1k8
R19 should be 33k
C7 should be 150uf
R22 should be 2k7
R23 should be 2k2
C11 should be 22uF

One additional BA185 find (don't know how critical they are):
C9, 10 should be 1000pF

And I dare to confirm that the changes as seen in this picture from pedro / kazper are correct and needed for original Neve specs:
(http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_B185BACK.jpg)

BA191 differences:
R13, R14 should be 220k
R15 should be 470R
R17 should be 1k
R19 should be 33k
R20 should be 820R
R21 should be 270R
C11 should be 160uF
C12, C13 should be 20uF
C15 should be 5uF

B192 differences:
R6 should be 10k
R9 should be 2k2
R15 should be 220R
R18 should be 22k
C6 should be 680pF
C9 should be 330uF
C10, 11, 12 should be 100uF
C13, 14 should be 22uF

BA283 differences:
C1 should be 22uF
C3, 7 should be 22uF
C6 should be 680pF
C9 should be 330uF



God this thing is quite a lot of work....
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: crisotop on May 31, 2009, 05:28:59 AM
Bumperoo for a lot of found differences between the wonderlandaudio boards and the original Neve schematics.

Also I'd like to save a bit on the limit threshold switch and use a 12-pos lorlin instead of a 24-pos Elma. Now there's a fixed 15k R1 and 2k7 R18 before and after the switch, which makes the conversion from 17 to 12 steps a bit more complicated (at least for me). I tried various substitutions with the help of volkers log. pot-to-switch excel sheet which didn't work out that well. I couldn't even recreate the original values that Neve used for gain make up - anyone knows how exactly how they calculated their resistor values?

thanks!
christoph
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Wonderlandaudio on June 22, 2009, 05:47:30 PM
Long time without being around...
Most differences you´ve mentioned are not mistakes, but different versions on the schematics
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Wonderlandaudio on June 22, 2009, 06:11:01 PM
Although some others are... Better to follow nee schems... I did
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: Wonderlandaudio on June 22, 2009, 06:21:15 PM
Bumperoo for a lot of found differences between the wonderlandaudio boards and the original Neve schematics.

Also I'd like to save a bit on the limit threshold switch and use a 12-pos lorlin instead of a 24-pos Elma. Now there's a fixed 15k R1 and 2k7 R18 before and after the switch, which makes the conversion from 17 to 12 steps a bit more complicated (at least for me). I tried various substitutions with the help of volkers log. pot-to-switch excel sheet which didn't work out that well. I couldn't even recreate the original values that Neve used for gain make up - anyone knows how exactly how they calculated their resistor values?

thanks!
christoph

Limit switch gets closer to a linear law than a log one. Total resistance, incl 15K ans 2k7 is around 22k, so you may use a 5K lin pot. If you still want to use a switch, get rid of the 5 lowest positions of the original ( you wont limit that much ) and add the total to the 15K resistor.

The gain makeup is pretty much a 5Klog.
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: SIXTYNINER on September 21, 2009, 01:28:43 PM
hi
there is some picture about "nice" finished unit?
cheers
 8)
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: kazper on September 25, 2010, 01:04:20 PM
Posted the missing documents  for this project  in the Group Email.

Lots of Pictures, The 2254 Service Manual, Schematics, Etc...
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: synthi on September 25, 2010, 05:26:32 PM
Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: 2254 BUILD THREAD
Post by: SIXTYNINER on September 26, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
hey
checked
"group" mail
unfortunately found nothing about   ???


Posted the missing documents  for this project  in the Group Email.

Lots of Pictures, The 2254 Service Manual, Schematics, Etc...