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General Discussions => The Lab => Topic started by: livingnote on January 06, 2009, 09:16:40 AM

Title: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 06, 2009, 09:16:40 AM
>>>This is one of the old, discontinued Crush-N-Blend threads<<<

For current CnB information go to:

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=61934.0

To keep some order, here's the official support thread for installing the internal crush-n-blend for you guys. I have taken the liberty of adding the instructions from the other thread as I kinda hijacked it myself with that front panel. Post any questions here.

Also, I have the boards in stock if you can't or don't want to etch, for the EU it's 10€ including postage and for international it's 12€. You have to drill'em yourself, but yeah, microseries...If I sell'em out, I'll just do a pro run next time.

Anyway, here goes:

First off, blueprints! Please be fair.

Schematic (http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/intcrush/IntCrushSchem2.jpg)

Components (http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/intcrush/IntCrushComponents2.jpg)

Photopositive 1200 dpi (http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/intcrush/IntCrushEtch.bmp)

And BOM:

3 x 5532N and their sockets
4 x 39K
12 x 10K
2 x 91K
1 Pot is standard 2x10K
8 x electrolytics 22µ or more
10 x 100n WIMA
6 x 33p or 20p wima

Optional:
4x 22k
2x 470r

And here the finished build:

(http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/intcrush/intcrush.jpg)



Installation procedure:

Here's a good explains-it-all pic by creal:

(http://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/13/40/53/93/crushi10.png)

After a bit of thought, I decided it would be best to get in there right before the VCA
input cap, and to go out after the first opamp in the output section.

The idea is to tap off the input, and "break in" to the output. Now there were
some differences on the rev9 board from the rev7 schemo, so we'll be lifting
caps on the output in place of the 100R.

(http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/SSLsurgery/componentbreak.jpg)

These are the legs we have to lift. It'll be the + side of the input caps, and the
output caps as well as the 10K resistor that goes to the inverting opamp.

In practise, this looks like this:

(http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/SSLsurgery/wiresolder.jpg)

Note that I screwed up a little here, I forgot to lift the output 10K's. Also, I didn't solder
the wire to the input caps' legs, which I corrected (it was 4AM) by soldering a separate wire to the
Cap leg itself and then twisting them together  ::)

Now for the actual connections (blue is left, red is right):

1. On the input caps, solder the lifted leg to the wire and to the hole where it came
from, retaining the original continuity. Alternatively, you can just solder in a wire on the
bottom of the PCB. All we want to do is sniff the signal, while keeping the artery to the VCA intact.

2. Solder the output caps' freed legs as well as the freed 10K leg all together and attach
a separate wire to them.

Now we have our signal tapping point as well as our little "window" on the output to
break into.

Before we proceed, it is a good idea to twist together the output wires respectively
and see if the compressor still works as before. That way, we'll know if we screwed
up here and it will save a lot of headache.

Now for the actual implant:

It's a good idea to power up the CnB board by itself first before you stick it into your
SSL. That way, if you have anything backwards, you'll just screw up a little part of
things.

Additionally, find a good spot for the CnB board well away from the tranny to make
sure it does not pick up hum. Being unbalanced, it's quite the antenna and so special care
must be taken to ensure it stays quiet. (Yah, screwed that one up myself).

On the Crush board, we have LD and RD (Left Dry and Right Dry), these guys get hooked
up to the wires on the input caps.

Next, we have LW and RW on the CnB input, these go where the wire comes out of the
PCB
at the output.

Now for the CnB output: Hook this up to the soldered-together-caps-n-resistor legs.

Then, carefully bring your patient back from his anesthesia and if all went well, you have
yourself a blend control.

Side Note: This has worked great across the board without the bias resistors, but if you wanna adapt to the same as in the SSL, here goes:

Carefully bend up legs 3 and 5, and to each of these, solder a 22K resistor to the two input
opamps' legs each, and for the output one, grab two 470R ones.

(http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/SSLsurgery/moddedr.jpg)

Solder the R's other ends together, and hook that point to ground somewhere.

(http://www.livingnote.com/prodigybilder/SSLsurgery/rtoground.jpg)

I can't be sure this really makes a difference, but to me it feels as though the construction sounds more "open" with the resistors attached. And then I feel it doesn't again. And then I feel it does. Oh well. You can just leave'em out, I guess...

Alright, show's yours. And be sure to post pictures here if you finish one  ;D
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: dagoose on January 06, 2009, 11:54:40 AM
I can tell you this is really a cool add on for the gssl!
I have been playing with it in a 'testmode' for some day's now and it really is nice to have a really over the top pumping sound with the original dry signal mixed in.

One note:
I mixed up two caps while building resulting in a 100nf cap where a 22pf cap should be in place  and so a nice low pass filter  ;D
So watch out for the caps as marked below as it took me some hourss to find out i screwed up there..
(http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/intcrush.jpg)
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 06, 2009, 06:24:50 PM
Thanks for marking it, now I see what's been screwing you...eagle put out the values where it could and that 22u there didn't help either....

Well here's to your lopass filter  ;) So in one thread you were designing that exact one, and at the same time in the other you had that exact problem! Ahh, the irony...


But it really is amazing, isn't it? Once you have it on the SSL, you wonder how you ever worked without it...
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: 3nity on January 06, 2009, 06:29:12 PM
you guys have a clip example of what this thing do?
I'm building a GSSL with Turbo, HPF sidechain and what now???
 ::)
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 06, 2009, 06:54:34 PM
Well basically it's just a stereo crossfader and works well at that, but in the SSL application it's a wet/dry control, so you can first compress the heck out of, for example, drums, and then blend it with the uncompressed signal, so Keith called it crush-n-blend.

I don't have a parallel compression example, but I did do a crossfade test with rather contrasting music, that way it's easier to judge the crossfade law:

Bing&Dimmu (http://www.livingnote.com/prodigymukke/CnBDemo.mp3)

It's cheap, and it's good. Produced 3 CDs through it, and it sounds great. Wish there was more stuff like that...
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: Sredna on January 06, 2009, 07:10:37 PM
My two favourite chistmas songs!

How did you know?  ;)

Still haven't decided to add CnB to my GSSL, have to finish sometime...

Regards,

Anders
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 06, 2009, 08:55:53 PM
good thread Lukas

i'm ok for buy you 2 board. i live in france.
Do you use paypal?

Cyril
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 06, 2009, 09:00:00 PM
Sure, just send me an email.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 07, 2009, 02:16:47 AM
just add the BOM

3 x 5532N and their sockets
4 x 39K
12 x 10K
2 x 91K
1 Pot is standard 2x10K
8 x electrolytics 22u
10 x 100n WIMA
6 x 33p or 20p ceramics

Optionnal:
4x 22k
2x 470r
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: dagoose on January 07, 2009, 02:23:29 AM
http://www.dagoosemusic.nl/temp/parallellssl2.wav a mono example (mine didn't work on both channels in the beginning because of the screwup i did a first)
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 07, 2009, 10:01:35 AM
Ah great, Thanks for the BOM, added it.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: iangomes on January 07, 2009, 06:46:21 PM
This is a great idea, I'd add it but I don't want to ruin the front panel of my gssl. It would be really cool to make a separate unit as a cnb.... then you can use it with anything you like! cnb pm670? cnb la2a? why not?!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 07, 2009, 07:38:37 PM
sure you can make this addon external.
Just add a +15/_15 PSU in your external Blend Box, put a switch and a SUB-D connector in rear panel of gssl.

just keep in mind this addon don't work with balanced signal.

 
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 08, 2009, 07:19:31 AM
Ah, that's what Keef's original schematic was for. With yummy SSMs and a scrumptious OPA, it has everything you need for balanced operation, plug it in between any two devices.

That said, sure you can externalize this one too...but I do have a layout for the one by Keith in the original CnB thread somewhere...
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 09, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
you're right the Keith original CnB is very good for external use.
it's one of my futur builds


 
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 09, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
And I managed to get it working alright too...now there's this second build which I did to balance and debalance with 5532's, that way you can weasel around SSMs and THATs that cost a lot...but [yoda] time he needs, projects he has too many of [/yoda]

Your boards should be on the way btw.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 09, 2009, 07:07:57 PM
2 good news Mr Lukas
Thx for sharing your knowledge
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 09, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
Yeah knowledge really is useless unless you share it - and it really helps to teach people stuff.

I'm just a beginner myself, but fast learning here. And fun - you remember those old books with like "301 circuits" that you could just flip through and etch & build what you needed? This is like one of those come to life!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 15, 2009, 08:21:08 AM
hi Lukas

I found the board in my mail box this morning ;)
Nice work, now it's time to drill them
Thank you
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 15, 2009, 01:43:57 PM
Ah great! I was almost getting worried there - I know what it's like when
you're reeeeally excited to build something and then have to wait ;)

Have fun building them!

Cheers,

Lukas
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on January 15, 2009, 01:54:59 PM
you're right:)

drilling is finish, still to find the wima's and add this great addon on the gssl
 
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: helterbelter on February 21, 2009, 07:55:27 PM
Hi Lukas !
My cnb arrived today. The print looks very neat. I hope to have the time tomorrow to start with it. Still have some other things to do that are a bit more urgent, unfortunately...

But it's here, thank you !
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: ltn.koerschgen on June 10, 2009, 05:13:34 PM
Hi folks, just installed the Dry/Wet board in my Compressor and it works! But! It has a 3 db boost at midposition...
So I need to  compensate the 3 db. I tried something with the 10k and the 39k resistors, but it doesnt work... I replaced the Resistors with pots (10k+some resistors) So that I had a range from 5-15k and 35-45k. Just the overall level changed... Maybe a log Pot will do the job? Any suggestions??? Thanks a lot for your opinions!

T.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: regularjohn on August 03, 2009, 01:23:54 PM
How are you guys hooking up the dual 10k pot? 
I'm guessing wiper to ground, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Thought I'd ask before I solder, desodler, resolder, desolder, resolder, etc!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: tgauge on August 22, 2009, 01:11:09 AM
Hey, quick question about installing this bad boy...

Just got finished building this guy and was getting ready to wire it into my GSSL when I started to think about the fact that I had modded the GSSL output to drive two OEP TXs per this picture...

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/slapback/gssl_trafo_mod.jpg)

I want to keep the TX on the output across the output so even the "dry" signal gets a little action so maybe someone can tell me if I should leave the 22R's in place or change those back to the original 100R?  Is there any modification needed to be done to the CnB board to accommodate the TX?

Thank you,
Taylor
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on September 08, 2009, 09:00:44 AM
I-Ight, sorry guys for the long hiatus - back to Cnb-land...

The wiper goes to ground, and the way I made the board was
L1, L2, GND, R2, R1 with 1 and 2 being the pot stack and L and
R the in and out terminal of each pot respectively. That way, you
can't wire your pot the wrong way, if dry is clockwise and you
want it the other way round, you can just reverse the connector.

The thing with the Trafo I'm not sure about, but the way it's
built is that the CnB fits in before the output driver stage, so
if it worked right before with those values it won't change because
of the CnB. The 22R up there does look temptingly close to
the output 10K, but electronically speaking it's miles away ;)

Cheers,

Lukas
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: regularjohn on September 11, 2009, 05:49:01 PM
Got it working!  Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: regularjohn on September 28, 2009, 09:20:56 PM
Hey Lukas,

Here's your baby in action!!!

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/jaymzcrane/CNB.jpg)

Check out: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35585.0
to see more pics of my 22 channel GSSL build.

You rock!
-Dustin
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: peat on September 28, 2009, 10:37:30 PM
love that pcb, looks awesome!!!

lukas, ive sent you a few emails, sorry if you're busy
im after 3 of those!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: AK79 on September 29, 2009, 02:49:59 PM
Hi Lukas,
I would be in for one board, too.

cheers
Arne
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: peat on November 03, 2009, 03:05:34 AM
Hey Lukas,

Just wondering if you got any messages from me?

Thanks
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: dukesofhazzard1986 on December 01, 2010, 01:14:24 PM
Me too. Sent a message but no answer yet
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: sheadstedford on January 15, 2011, 02:31:25 AM
Hello i wondered if these boards were still available as im building an SB4000 next gen gssl and really want this in it!!
Noticed its been like a year since any responce!
Hoping this is still available so i can get on it!!!!
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: guy_4 on January 19, 2011, 08:18:21 PM
Hi Lukas,
Your box is full of messages, can't PM you !
Do you still have PCB's for sale ?
Best,
Guy
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 19, 2011, 11:17:49 PM
Hey everybody,

thanks for all your messages and mails - truth be told, I haven't even gotten an inch further
with my own project, and though the layout I posted in the lab for CnB rev5 should work,
I still haven't fired it up (can you call that a very advanced version of writer's block?).

I'll be sure to keep you posted when I get back on it though - in the mean time, if you're in
a hurry and know how to etch (or know someone who does):

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39238.0
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: ruckus328 on January 19, 2011, 11:30:35 PM
Hey Lukas, am I missing something?  Would like to try to have one of these made to try with my unit but looks like the only thing you have posted is a pdf of the assembly drawing in that other thread, don't see any etching files.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: livingnote on January 20, 2011, 02:14:17 PM
Hmm I can't get at illustrator right now, but from what I remember the AI file is the full
document - i.e. - I have a layer for bottom and top traces and pads for both sides, plus
one for components, so that you can etch it by activating and deactivating layers in Illu.

Thing is, for those who don't have illustrator, it might be good to pull the document apart,
but that's not something I can do from here.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: marcfrom on February 26, 2011, 06:11:44 AM
I'm interested by 2 X crush and blend PCBs.
Is it available?
I'm in France

Thanks

Marc
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: snipsnip on February 26, 2011, 09:22:05 AM
Pretty sure lucus isnt etching any more.

This product is due out soon though and may be what you need?

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43263.0

Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: marcfrom on November 18, 2011, 04:22:36 AM
About the 10K Dual gang pot, is it a Lin or Log ?
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: creal on November 18, 2011, 07:21:19 AM
About the 10K Dual gang pot, is it a Lin or Log ?


Hi,
The 10k pot is lin.

cheers
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: marcfrom on December 15, 2011, 05:41:56 PM
Hi Guys,

I just finish a GSSL with Turbo, Super sidechain, and crush n blend.

When i turn the pot completly on the Wet side the unity gain is ok, but when i turn it on the dry side i have 6dB more.

Is it not better to get the dry signal between the VCA input and the 27K input resistor ? Does anyone had this problem?

Thanks

Marc
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on July 20, 2012, 05:06:30 AM
Just gor a board from Holger.
Is there any info (BOM, component placement,...) for the rev 4 version?
It seems quit different from the rev 1 layout.

thanks,
Pieter
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: Hank Dussen on July 20, 2012, 05:12:29 AM
OK, it's seems to be the same as rev 5:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39238.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39238.0)
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: dryman on August 30, 2012, 08:39:54 AM
i am looking for an internal crush-n-blend-PCB or schematics for V5. Does anyone have it? I would like to pimp my SB4000.
Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: kosty on January 10, 2013, 07:21:00 AM
Hi guys !
Last year I successfully built a Gssl with Turbo and SSC and was just thinking about adding the Crush-n-Blend function to it.

Before I'm trying it out I have a couple of questions to you :

1.) Is the gain on the same overall level, no matter how I set up the Wet/Dry pot ? Precisely is it the same level for 100% Wet, 100% Dry and 50%/50% Wet-Dry or does it add a few dBs at 50/50 ?

2.) The "Make-up" Gain of the main VCA is controlled by a DC-Offset you add into the VCA CV. The Dry signal is added after the VCA after the first Opamp of the output circuit. Does this mean, that the ratio between Wet & Dry signal at the output changes if I turn the Make-up gain knob ? Do I have to change my Wet/Dry knob to get the same ratio of Wet/Dry ?

3.) Is it possible to set the knob the way that I have 100% Wet at one end and 50/50% at the other end ? I don't think that I will ever need a 50% to 100% Dry signal. I was thinking that I would gain more precise control over the Wet/Dry ratio if the setting range is smaller.

Thanks for your help :)

Title: Re: Internal Crush-n-blend Support thread
Post by: MaNiAC on April 28, 2014, 09:48:49 AM
Hi,
Thanks for this project !

Is 22uF/25V enough for the electrolytic caps, or should I choose a 35V? (I'd like to try the 22uF/25V Muse caps)