GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Dynamic Processors => Topic started by: Igor on March 18, 2009, 10:19:26 PM

Title: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 18, 2009, 10:19:26 PM
Hi guys!
Here will be posted info for 2254C builders.


Will try to help when have a free time minute ;)

I can't care for any damage if you going to kill somebody with this thingy,
electricity shock, etc.

Short history: after building some 33609 units, came a mind to
use 2254 make-up amp with 33609 sidechain, add instead of limiter
attack control and sidechain 2nd order hi-pass filter.
After all... Sounds really nice, very usefull compressor.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/1.jpg)

The build manual from Reanimatorstudio:

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/thumbnails.php?album=409

Photos:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000120.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/3.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/4.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/5.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000040.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000043.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000049.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000051.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000118.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000115.jpg

Please visit here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=36955.0
for great info

Schematic for reference:
(right-click, save-as...)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/schem-1.gif

Most part numbers are same as on Neve drawings for reference.

Errata: still nothing. If mistakes will be found, look here.

Schem description:  

coming soon

Test proc:

coming soon

Internal wiring:

coming soon

PCB parts placement:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/pcb_main.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/pcb_fp_top.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/pcb_fp_btm.gif

Power supply:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ps.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/POWER_SUPP_33609.gif


BOM:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/BOM1.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/BOM2.gif

PCB's and kits ordering:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771.0

Cases:
Purusha did an excellent desin, for my taste.
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32647.0
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Purusha on March 20, 2009, 05:48:10 PM
Wow, those red LEDs look really good!!!

Thanks for the front panel drawings Igor. Will put up my offer for the 2U cases in next few days.

Nice work as always  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 20, 2009, 06:08:34 PM
Wow, those red LEDs look really good!!!

Thanks for the front panel drawings Igor. Will put up my offer for the 2U cases in next few days.

Nice work as always  ;)

Are you not planning on offering 1U cases? I think a few people may prefer 1U's, even if building a pair (I know I would).

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Purusha on March 20, 2009, 06:15:11 PM
Probably there will not be enough orders for both types. 2U has priority.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sorr on March 20, 2009, 10:18:40 PM
What audio transformers are you using?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 21, 2009, 02:35:47 AM
What audio transformers are you using?

From Igor's previous posts:

Quote
Trunny options are:

Input: 10k:2k4 (31267, TF10016, OEP262**, etc)
Interstage: 1k2:5k (10468, TF10015, OEP262**, etc)
Output: gapped 200:600 Ohm (LO1166, etc).

Yes, schemo says "optional", because I had to draw these trunny's on schematic to layout them on board.

PCB has options for Beclairs, Marinair/StIves, OEP. Output trafo installed out of board. Other types of input/interstage trunny's can be used as well, there's 5 pin Molex connectors for this purpose on PCB. Same as in 33609 project.

From my experience, best subs next to Marinair/Ives are Carenhills and TF10015/6. OEP sucks, otherwise you want ugly distorting box.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 23, 2009, 08:20:30 AM
Hi Igor,

I'm starting to collect parts and have a few BOM questions.

Just a quick question about the BC184's, if memory serves me correctly Neve used BC184C's in certain stages on the B183/B283 boards because they needed high HFE's to curb noise issues. Did you use undesignated BC184's in yours or a B or C version? the BOM or PCB overlay doesn't seem to indicate any specific designation.

RE the Tant caps, one says 10m, one says 47u, am I guessing correctly in that they are both uF (microfarad) values?

Also I'm confused about the ceramic values, the 6 pieces that say 0.1..0.22U? I'm trying to follow the designations but it is fairly confusing... for example I'm looking at the schematic to back trace them and the one value CB6 seems to say CB6/C3/224/100m? Care to decipher that for me, Hah Hah!

Thanks again for this great project.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2009, 08:42:22 AM
Hi Matta!

Quote
Just a quick question about the BC184's, if memory serves me correctly Neve used BC184C's in certain stages on the B183/B283 boards because they needed high HFE's to curb noise issues. Did you use undesignated B184's in yours or a B or C version? the BOM or PCB overlay doesn't seem to indicate any specific designation.

Quick answer: BC184C, possible to use BC109C. Pinout EBC.

Quote
RE the Tant caps, one says 10m, one says 47u, am I guessing correctly in that they are both uF (microfarad) values?

Yes, they are in microfarrad. 10uFx(16..25V) and 47uFx(16..25V).

Quote
Also I'm confused about the ceramic values, the 6 pieces that say 0.1..0.22U? I'm trying to follow the designations but it is fairly confusing... for example I'm looking at the schematic to back trace them and the one value CB6 seems to say CB6/C3/224/100m?

These are ceramic power supply bypassing capacitors. They just should present, value in range (47nF...0.22uF),
 5mm pitch 50V. CB6 is bypass ceramic cap, C3 is 100uF (25...35V) low ESR 'lythic.

Thanx for pointing on this.
Hope now all is clear, if there's another questions, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 23, 2009, 08:54:36 AM
Thanx for pointing on this.
Hope now all is clear, if there's another questions, feel free to ask.

All clear, and as always, thank you, will bring more issues/confusion to light if they appear. I thought this would be the best place to post so we can keep the threads clean.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2009, 09:22:48 AM
Sure. Will be happy to see built and working units!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 25, 2009, 05:07:03 PM
Can we talk a bit about these trannys?

Quote
Trunny's are:
-line (31267 or substitute) qty1
-mic (10468 or substitute) qty1
-gaped output trunny (1066 or sub') qty1.

Brands, sources, costs, sounds?   Especially for those of us in the good ole US of A... ;)

Brad,

All those numbers above are the original Neve tranos made by Marinair/St Ives.

The closest thing these days are the Carnhills and your best bet to get em, unless you arrange a Group Buy (do able, but NOT fun!), is through Colin (Slenderchap). Costs are not cheap (though Colin's prices rock!). I think you are looking at +-100 British Pounds for a set ex shipping/duties.

You can find them on Colin's site here: http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Transformers_and_Inductors.html (http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Transformers_and_Inductors.html)

The model numbers there would be:

-line VTB9046
-mic VTB9045
-gaped output VTB9049 (though there are other options with fly leads, lower profile frames etc).

RE sound, they are prob as close as you are going to get to the originals, thick, velvet like tones, beefy lows, somewhat muddy mids and a beautiful airy top end (at least my personal experience, YMMV).

I hope that helps, but really think these questions should be asked in the help thread to keep things clean, I'll post my response there as well.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ampman1961 on March 25, 2009, 05:56:25 PM
Igor...
I am new to the group and haven't had the time to read the entire thread regarding the 2254 build project.
Very interested in obtaining a full kit if available. I have a real 2254E in the studio, but building one would be a real blast. What do I need to do and how much in US dollars? If you could PM the details for payment etc, it would be appreciated. Outstanding job by the way!
Billy Yates
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on March 25, 2009, 05:57:23 PM
ok, looks like $337 for a stereo set of trannys from carnhill..

i can't find any google info on TF10015/16

whats this?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on March 25, 2009, 06:05:51 PM
HEY IGOR,
possible place carnhill transformers as in the original 2254, or your project require
bell transformers?
the stereo kit you supply include pcbs+parts for 2 channels?
(interested to stereo kit with psu pcb)
thanks in advance
6T9R

Yes, it is possible, the boards accept multiple transformers, please read my post above that I quoted from Igor. The info it posted right here  8)

Cheers

Matt

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on March 25, 2009, 07:11:04 PM
Quote
ok, looks like $337 for a stereo set of trannys from carnhill..

That's not as bad as I was expecting...  I know Igor gives a big thumbs down for the OEPs, but I seem to remember people liking them in other posts.  Anyone care to comment?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 25, 2009, 07:23:42 PM
Hi Bill,
Quote
I am new to the group

Wellcome, this is most friendly place IMHO over the net:)

Quote
and haven't had the time to read the entire thread regarding the 2254 build project.
Very interested in obtaining a full kit if available.

Hey, but anyway, please try to read all this unnecessary stuff, just to save your and others time :)

Quote
I have a real 2254E in the studio, but building one would be a real blast.
This is a bit different compressor, better to say, very close to 2254 soundpath,
and 33609 sidechain with some upgrades and addings as well. I will be happy to know
your impressions after comparing 2254C to Neve 2254E :)
IMHO, usefull :)

Quote
What do I need to do and how much in US dollars?
If you could PM the details for payment etc, it would be appreciated. Outstanding job by the way!
Billy Yates
Thank you!
For orders:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771.0


In case you need help with building the unit/troubleshooting, ithis is the thread.


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 25, 2009, 07:25:55 PM
I can comment on OEP :)
(just kidding)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MikoKensington on March 25, 2009, 10:41:21 PM
What OEP's can be used to substitute the 31267/VTB9046 and 10468/VTB9045?  I've been looking at the usual suspects around here, but the impedances look off compared to the St. Ives/Carnhills. 

$350 for Carnhills hurts.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Purusha on March 26, 2009, 04:37:28 AM
Guys, I still have some Belclere iron left I could sell (T10015 and T10014/16).  :P
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: waldorfcave on March 26, 2009, 08:18:01 AM
Purusha, emailed you
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on March 26, 2009, 01:22:22 PM
Question...

Can we increase the release time to be as fast as the 33609?  50ms?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 26, 2009, 03:56:04 PM
Hi Brad, it is not increase, minimal release time in compressor's section is 100ms, according to Neve manual IIRC :)
But yes, changing relase time is possible, just check this:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/compREC_sw.jpg
and this:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/compREC_sw.jpg

Please mind, there's error on Neve's drawing: on compressor recovery switch 6k8 is actually 24k,
it is r'10 on bottom-mid on my schematic:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/schem-1.gif

Let me know how do you want to change recovery settings, will post it here.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on March 26, 2009, 04:08:51 PM
Yes, i ment to say "Can we shorten the fastest release time to something like 50ms...?"


I understand that it can be switched between these values with the position of the release switch, but is there anyway to make the 100ms position something faster like 50ms?


I mention this because i was discussing the 2254 and 33609 with a trusted engineer friend.  his experience with the 2254 was that it was a touch slow on drums (i don't want to start a subjective battle over this btw).  But I was just curious if we could change this.... hey, since this is DIY... DI-whY-not!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 26, 2009, 04:33:31 PM
Brad, 2254C sidechain is copy-pasted from 33609. This is one of the things which makes it
more versatile than old good 2254A or E. To fasten first release setting, just decrease R'10 value (say 12-18k)
and slightly increase value of R'11 to ~82k, by same amount, to compensate it on second release setting, or,
leaving R'11 same (75k) will slightly shorten second and third release times (allmost inaudible).
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on March 26, 2009, 06:16:08 PM
I think I understand.  Thank you for the explanation.  (I may ask a clarifying question later when I actually dive in)


how about attack ratios... can they be quickened?


Youre the best Igor!

thanks

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 26, 2009, 08:19:41 PM
Regarding attack settings. There's R'31 (see sidechain, bottom left of schem), at TR8's emitter.
Originally, it is 560 or 680R (difference between old and new units). Change it to 150R; at first, second and third attack
switch settings, attack will be faster than original, three times at least at first setting.
To faster both attack and release is possible by changing C13' 10uF capacitor as well. Lower is faster both att/release.
One thing, on too fast settings, sidechain can oscillate in some cases...at least, IIRC it did on breadboard
a years ago when I started to play arround 33609. However, IIRC, it was ground or power supply issue and was fixed...
Will play with this when will have a time next week.
Automatic time constants, A1/A2 possible to change as well. 
Best way to do this: take unit in studio and play untill it smokes :)
Well, don't forget to switch off when changing components :)
Just kidding.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on March 26, 2009, 10:48:03 PM
Wondering if the tamura pm1000 output buddy would be appropriate for this circuit.  Can't find much in the way of a data sheet.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 26, 2009, 10:55:17 PM
IIRC PM1000 (Yamaha od mixer, right?) never used gapped trunny's at the output......
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 29, 2009, 12:47:06 PM
Received the PCB's and updated some photos.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000109.jpg
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 29, 2009, 01:09:07 PM
BOM for power supply (from 33609 thread):
1   LM317T                   IC2                               
3   0.1u 50V   ceramic cap 5mm             C2, C3, C4                         
2   1N4004             D1, D7                             
4   1N5400   3A fast rectifier diodes             D9, D10, D11, D12                                                 
1   50r        1/4w 2%       R4
1   196r      1/4w 2%       R1
1   3k57      1/4w 2%       R5                                                                 
1   25k        1/4w 2%       R2 
1   10k mutiturn trimpot                               
2   100ux50v  pitch 3.5mm low esr      C5, C7                                                           
1   2200-3500u 50v     low esr 7.5 or 10 mm pitch      C13                                       
1   TL071P  single opamp             IC1                               
1   Heatsink for lm317

Regarding the heatsink: preferred type is SK129.

Board can hold 4 types of "big" caps an 3 types of heatsink.

Heatsink (Farnell):
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=ERENQZVKUFT4VQFIAGJZLTQ?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=sk129&Ntx=&_requestid=397515
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread PSU BOM
Post by: bradb on March 29, 2009, 06:54:03 PM
LM317T                                          Mouser   512-LM317T           1
0.1u 50V   ceramic cap 5mm                  Mouser   80-C322C104M5U5HA   3
1N4004                                          Mouser   863-1N4004G           2
1N5400   3A fast rectifier diodes               Mouser   863-1N5400G           4
50r        1/4w 2%                            Mouser   271-51-RC                   1
196r      1/4w 2%                             Mouser   271-196-RC                   1
3k57      1/4w 2%                               Mouser   271-3.57K-RC           1
25k        1/4w 2%                            Mouser   271-24.9K-RC           1
10k mutiturn trimpot                            Mouser   652-3299W-1-103LF   1
100ux50v  pitch 3.5mm low esr               Mouser   647-UPS1H101MPD   2
2200-3500u 50v low esr 7.5 or 10 mm pit   Mouser   647-UVY1H472MRD   1
TL071P  single opamp                            Mouser   595-TL071CP           1
Heatsink for lm317  SK129                   Mouser   567-657-20ABP           1


I changed the "2200-3500u" cap to a 4700 uf / 50V.... i CANNOT find a low ESR version

I just yanked these part numbers from other posts in the 33609 thread.  Please double check....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on March 29, 2009, 08:12:54 PM
Quote
Received the PCB's and updated some photos.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1000109.jpg

dang yo, so fine!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MikoKensington on March 30, 2009, 02:59:29 PM
Igor, can we get a little more info on the metering?  What type should we start with?  How was your scale generated?  Thanks.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 30, 2009, 05:47:15 PM
Yap. I used ST7 from Farnell, link:
http://il.farnell.com/anders-electronics/st7/vu-meter-rect-0-200ua/dp/7758200?_requestid=182388
and printed the scale by myself.

Meter connected this way:
200 Ohm 1/4W resistor connected in parallel (across the meter)
Plus of meter goes to 680 Ohm 1/4W resistor
Minus of meter goes to front pannel, to pad marked (-mtr1) (next to bypass switch)
Free leg of 680R resistor goes to front pannel, to pad marked (+mtr1) (next to bypass switch)

All this stuff backlighted from bottom of meter (2xPLCC-2 red leds glued with 5 min sets epoxy).
LED's connected in series.
+VULED pad to + of first LED; - of first LED to + of second LED; - of second LED to -VULED pad.

It is a bit tricky to solder PLCC-2 led's, they are 2x2mm...
 First glue them with small amount of epoxy, let glue set 5-10 min.
Glue piece of breadboard 5x10mm on back of meter.
Then pull some pieces from 24awg wire, connect led's in series,
then  connect led's to breadboard...
here's terminals easy to connect to wires going from front pannel.
 
I like this meter. BTW, faster than Sifam several times...shows closer picture to real gain reduction.
Sifams are too slow, they don't show actual gain reduction on fast peaks.

Will post link to printable scale drawing and photos of backlighting stuff  in few days.

Scale was generated simply by measuring gain reduction and marking the old scale with pen...as is :)
I took -20 db as last point of old scale...rest is simple.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MikoKensington on March 30, 2009, 08:25:36 PM
Well that pretty much sums that up.  Thank you, Igor.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on March 31, 2009, 07:17:16 PM

The model numbers there would be:

-line VTB9046
-mic VTB9045
-gaped output VTB9049 (though there are other options with fly leads, lower profile frames etc).

Hi - excuse my ignorance, but I have a couple transformer questions...  What would we need a microphone transformer for?  What would be a good Carnhill equivalent for the interstage transformer?

Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 31, 2009, 08:00:53 PM
Signal structure is: 0db input-> -6db after input trafo-> -31db approx. after input pad (diode bridge can't handle line level),
then, current buffers (same level), interstage trafo-> -25dB. Signal comes balanced to bridge compressor,
and output amp is unbalanced. Audio comes out of phase, CV in common phase. Besides buffers are ac-coupled to transformer,
there's still CV swing which we have to distract from audio...transformer take care about this.
Interstage converts balanced signal to unbalanced, and matching impedances as well.
 Hope it clear, if someone can explain in normal english wellcome.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on April 01, 2009, 12:13:05 AM
So then the Carnhill VTB9045 is a good candidate for the interstage transformer?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on April 01, 2009, 09:21:55 AM
Sure :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: 303monkey on April 09, 2009, 03:03:26 PM
Hi there Igor
Are there any pcb's left?  I would like a set
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MikoKensington on April 09, 2009, 04:24:11 PM
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771.0
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: 303monkey on April 09, 2009, 07:45:17 PM
Cheers Miko
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on April 19, 2009, 05:47:01 AM
Hi Guys

For those that only ordered boards and not kits(!) i've put together a BOM based on Mouser (delete the .txt extension)
Please verify against the BOM before use

cheers

[edit]
File upload corrupted file. RTFM'd and so here is the URL to my BOM.
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-3173 (http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-3158)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on April 19, 2009, 07:55:39 AM
please check xls doc
it is empty
6T9R
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on April 19, 2009, 01:37:38 PM
Strange...Seems, 47n diasappeared due to eco crisis, but this for 220p will work fine:
Mouser Part #: 81-RPE5C1H221J2P1A03
Mouser Part #: 81-RPER72A221K2P1B03
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on April 19, 2009, 03:18:08 PM
Thanks Igor

I obviously didnt look hard enough!
I found this for 47n from Mouser: 75-MKT1822347254

here is the updated BOM
cheers

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-3173 (http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-3173)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on May 02, 2009, 09:45:26 PM
10368 is equivalent to 31267, correct?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MikoKensington on May 02, 2009, 09:57:58 PM
The data you seek...

(http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/neveinfo/DSCF1997.JPG)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 03, 2009, 09:49:54 AM
Hi Guys

Just wondered how everybody is getting on with their build ?
I'm about 80% complete on stuffing the boards

I'm hoping that Tat's case will be here sometime later this month.

Has anyone got to point of testing yet ?
I wonder if we need to nudge Igor for an update on page 1 yet ?  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 06, 2009, 04:26:57 AM
Yes, I still have to prepere some files, hopefully this week they will be uploaded.
Too busy these days.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 06, 2009, 05:27:34 AM
Thanks Igor, much appreciated.

I noticed one thing, the BOM for R"19 says 1K but both the schema and PCB are at 820r
I dont think it will be a problem as it looks to be in series with the gain trim pot, but wanted to check to make sure.

cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 16, 2009, 06:11:12 PM
Actually, R"19 can be in range between 750-1k2.

carnhill transformers are closer sub to originals
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 16, 2009, 08:44:40 PM
What OEP's can be used to substitute the 31267/VTB9046 and 10468/VTB9045?  I've been looking at the usual suspects around here, but the impedances look off compared to the St. Ives/Carnhills.  

$350 for Carnhills hurts.

HI
I Don't know if the links still working,
1-
http://www.sototo.com/build/items/00/69/091.html
but the info of the link are this:
Carnhill VTB9045-Equivalent to Neve number L10468,
low level impedance matching input tx 1,200 ohms to 4,800 ohms
2-
http://www.sototo.com/build/items/00/69/095.html
Carnhill VTB9049 AKA VTB1148 -Equivalent to Neve number LO1166,
line output tx handles 24d/c current
3-
Carnhill VTB9045 -Equivalent to NEVE L131267

Any further info/help , it's wellcome.
6T9R

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on May 17, 2009, 10:15:43 AM
Hi Igor,

I'm in the process of stuffing the PCB's and an noticing quite a few differences between the BOM and the PCB, which is correct?

Many of them are legending things, like certain resistors have a * next to them, see R54, R47 and so forth, what do these mean?

A few components also have N/A on them, in my mind that means not applicable, in which case do we NOT stuff them?

Is it also safe to assume that 33r and 33R are the same values? The BOM shows R71 as 33r but then R16 & R18 are 33R? Why the differentiations?

R7 - 0R and J' = 0, I assume these are both 0R resistor or jumpers?

Also RZ is designated as 1K5, surely this value is dictated by the transformers used?

Do any of the diodes need to be matched at all?

Lastly are the rotary switches make before break? I assume so, but want to check... desoldering DS boards is never fun  ;D

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 17, 2009, 12:38:53 PM
Hi Matta!
Quote
Many of them are legending things, like certain resistors have a * next to them, see R54, R47 and so forth, what do these mean?
R54 and R47 forming the load of input trafo. Assume, R47 will be allways 2k2 as you use 2:1 10k:2k4 input trafo.
But R54 and C19 forming Zobel network for trafo secondary. Vlues shown are good for TF100XX and 31267.
In case of Lundhall for example, they may be different. Search forum for Zobel network, you will find a lot of info there.

Quote
A few components also have N/A on them, in my mind that means not applicable, in which case do we NOT stuff them?
You mean C10/R10. There's a option to make HPF as resonant type filter, but after listening I changed it to way it done now.

Quote
Is it also safe to assume that 33r and 33R are the same values?

Yes, they are 33 (Ohm)
Quote
The BOM shows R71 as 33r but then R16 & R18 are 33R? Why the differentiations?
Sticky CAPS :)

Quote
R7 - 0R and J' = 0, I assume these are both 0R resistor or jumpers?
Yes, both are 0R jumpers.

Quote
Also RZ is designated as 1K5, surely this value is dictated by the transformers used?
Here is the place for discussion :) As long as output is single-ended, we should supply some load.
I use allways 1k-1k5 at output of 1166. This way, it terminated, sounds right, but when low impedance load connected
(like Pultec for example), it operates still not on heavy load. If 1k2 used, load output on additional 1k2
to make total load 600 ohm when adjusting symmetry (quiescent curremt), RV1 5k.
If 1k5 connected, use 1k in parallel to adjust quiescent current.

Quote
Do any of the diodes need to be matched at all?
Yes, sure, D14, 15, 16, 17 should be matched by Vf.

Quote
Lastly are the rotary switches make before break? I assume so, but want to check... desoldering DS boards is never fun
 
Yes, all Lorlins are MBB. Farnell CatNr's:

Order Code: 1123699
Manufacturer Part Number: CK1059   

Order Code: 1123700
Manufacturer Part Number: CK1060


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 17, 2009, 12:44:30 PM

MATTA
i got a transformers offer
but 31267 don't appear as a code
that i see is :
VTB9046 Equivalent to NEVE L131267 (Is this right code?)
VTB9045 Equivalent to NEVE L10468
VTB1148 Equivalent to NEVE LO1166

(ok for output transformer model in case to use 1u rack case)

cheers
6T9R

Again, NEVE NEVER made transformers, the companies who did with the 10 series were Gardeners, Marinair and St Ives.

The Marinair were stamped L1.31267 / S, so I can only assume that is what you are referring to, that transformer is a LINE transformer.

Cheers

Matt

Matta i never said Neve build transformers (i know Neve give a custom code to transformers)
only asked if you are making a 2254c with original transformers
and
if someone know the right code of transformers used on the original 2254
please post , as "public domain info/help".
6T9R
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 17, 2009, 12:48:37 PM
Guys, PLEASE. As long as we already discussed the options for trunny's, let's leave it.
Just imagine you have to read 30-40 pages of stuff after 3 month!
:)
Let's discuss here more usefull issues. Anyone get to soldered PCB's stage?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 17, 2009, 01:29:35 PM
Guys, PLEASE. As long as we already discussed the options for trunny's, let's leave it.
Just imagine you have to read 30-40 pages of stuff after 3 month!
:)
Let's discuss here more usefull issues. Anyone get to soldered PCB's stage?


hi igor the 2254c project you done is probably one of the best done in this "posse",
i'm soldering parts on pcb , and found same "doubts" as matta
also checked main pcb pictures you posted , and i found differences
if i can .......i suggest you to post some picture
(a picture can say more then 20000..words and avoid many discussion pages,and reduce time for get "making of " informations)
Pictures have to show info about :
R7 - 0r , resistor "RZ" , R54 -11k* ,C19-100p* ,
D14 D15 D16 D17 Match,
belclere or carnhill - wiring option with resistors and value if required,
(or the 30/40 pages links about, i think pages you mean are about 33609)
A picture about lorlin rotary switches and resistors pcbs finished with all parts ,
*
in my 2254c set i received ,
the 47k resistors are normal metal film type ,
not the
Metal Film Resistors Flameproof like this
Mouser Part No:   71-CPF1-B-1.2K
Manufacturer Part No:   CPF11K2000BEB14
6T9R
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 17, 2009, 05:18:50 PM
I'm all soldered up  ;)
Just waiting for 1 or 2 out of stock items from Mouser and also clarification on some BOM/Board Layout questions, which have been answered.
BTW I'm using Carnhill's for the transformers as mentioned previously earlier in the thread

Just need to fix the camera and i will post some pics.

Igor, if you could manage it, it would be great to update page 1 with calibration/test steps sometime soon that would be great!

cheers
John
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: TomWaterman on May 17, 2009, 06:37:56 PM
1 question, the board has quite a few 80uF caps on it. The kit provided 100uF/25v, I take it these are cool in those spots?

Also the big cap C17 just under the relays, PCB says 100uF, but the large radial caps in the kit I have left are 1000uF?

-T
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on May 19, 2009, 10:35:59 PM
Quote
Thanks Igor

I obviously didnt look hard enough!
I found this for 47n from Mouser: 75-MKT1822347254

here is the updated BOM
cheers

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-3173

Thanks so much for posting that jplum!  I have vowed to finish a few other projects before I start this one but it's cool to get organized.   
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 21, 2009, 12:26:33 PM
No problem, glad I can contribute in some small way

Reminder to verify yourself though!, but I pretty much used this parts list as per the XLS file.

I intend to make 3 changes to the BOM XLS, but havent got round to it yet so will document here to remind me!

1. CZ in BOM is incorrect pitch and needs a replacement
2. CPS"1 (1000 uF) Cap in BOM is Radial. Needs to change to Axial as one in BOM is too tall IMHO
3. C"17 change from Radial to Axial

Just waiting on update from Tat re Case and also Igor for any docs to assist in setup

cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 21, 2009, 04:53:57 PM
Apparently Tat has been banned from the forum, why i've no idea but i guess its not my business to ask  :(
He has kindly returned my email almost instantly with update on shipping of my case.
Not sure what happened but i thought i'd let this thread know, as probably you guys are also waiting on news of case
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on May 24, 2009, 05:07:33 PM
Hi Guys,

Well im stuck already, go to stuff my 1st resistor and i cant find it! lol

im looking for R'19 (1M)

I have found R"19 (820)

I dont remember reading any thing odd about this one or have I missed some thing?

any pointers much appreciated,

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on May 24, 2009, 05:18:04 PM
Found it!

 ;D

I'm assuming the N/A means we dont stuff it?

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 24, 2009, 05:56:15 PM
hi
something about this project , somebody else have found similar?
original picture for comparisation with rev 1,4 is this :
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/3.jpg
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on May 24, 2009, 06:27:10 PM
I've got a simple question about the psu.

With the lm317, do I need to have an insulator between it's case and the heatsink?  I plan to solder the heat sink to the pcb. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: TomWaterman on May 24, 2009, 06:36:15 PM
I'm assuming the N/A means we dont stuff it?

Pete

There were a few N/A parts, but I think just in the filter circuit, Igor recommended leaving them out.

SIXTYNINER:

Not sure about R41 yet, I think it is Igors output TX termination... but haven't studied that bit yet. I just stuffed a the bits I saw I knew were good. I can't see why it would need to be special from here.

C10 was used in combo with R10 I think to make resonant filter in sidechain, however Igor recommends not fitting these to use standard HPF in SC.

The two parts with * next to them are damping networks for the input transformer to improve square wave response (if thats where your picture is pointing), as far as I can tell they are marked with a * as depending upon whatever iron you choose they may either be omitted or altered for best termination.

It also looks like Igor has used MilMax sockets to allow easy in circuit matching of the diodes. I just used the diodes that came with the kit but if it compresses weird I will go back and solder sockets to allow testing/matching.

I know a few guys who match these for Vf and then spray them cold, heat them up and then test again to find matches that are consistent across temp.

I can't seem to locate C13'2 the 47uF tant on the board, but I have not had time to really search.

My kits seem to be short on 680uF, with a few extra 1000uF caps, also short on 1Meg resistors.
-T
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on May 24, 2009, 10:25:40 PM
Quote
I can't seem to locate C13'2 the 47uF tant on the board,

this one is on the front panel boards, next to com_recovery switch.

In my Cap bag i have a flat black sqaure cap, with a red side on one end, marked with cx16j 476M, any ideas on what this one is?

pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: TomWaterman on May 24, 2009, 11:29:47 PM
Hey thanks Pete I hadn't done those yet!

What a twat. Easy miss.

The square flat caps are the very same, 47uF solid tants.

-T
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on May 24, 2009, 11:46:00 PM
LOL these are tricky little buggers arent they!

thanks Tom,

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on May 25, 2009, 03:50:57 PM
from 33609 :
4.1. APPLY 0DB TO INPUT. COM OFF, LIM OFF, BYPASS IN, MEASURE OUTPUT IS 0 DB,
CONNECT LINK TO CV 3.00V WITH CROCODILE CABLE. ADJUST RV2 TO GET -8 DB AT OUTPUT....

i assume we will have similar procedure like above on 2254c the monster, too :)

those 0 DB -8 DB means dbm (dbv) ... i can read dbm (dbv) on fluke 187...
am i good ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on May 25, 2009, 05:02:55 PM
John (Jplum),

Out of interest what made you settle on the WIMA FKP range rather than the MKS? Also your BOM seems to indicate the pitch of the leads for most of the poly caps is 2.5mm, Igor's BOM seems to show 5mm spacing... I don't have a PCB in front of me to confirm, but assume the 2.5mm fit just fine?

Thanks in advance!

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on May 26, 2009, 03:57:55 AM
Hi Matt

<<<what made you settle on the WIMA FKP range rather than the MKS>>>

I made my decision based on tech data sheet that implied typical applications "Audio Eqpt" and availability at the time of building the BOM. Do you consider the MKS range more suitable (or anu other manufacturer/range for that matter) ? I havent PUP'd yet so cant give you any opinion on audio quality etc but it would good to call out potential issues now.

<<< Also your BOM seems to indicate the pitch of the leads for most of the poly caps is 2.5mm >>>
I think the 2.5 in the p/n referes to tolerence. I believe they are 5mm, certainly for my boards they have been fine. The only wrong p/n in the BOM as far as pitch was CZ and I'll update soon

All the best
John
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 28, 2009, 06:44:35 AM
hi
follow info can be good for this project?
*
take a look at a 33609 schemo and all will be revealed!  The mic transformer is used in the line input signal chain as a step up.  Here's a brief run down of what happens
1) Signal enters and is dropped 6dB by using a 31267 wired for 2:1
2) The signal passes through a line pad to drop it a further 25dB.  The signal must be padded because the diode bridge cannot handle high levels.  
3) After the diode bridge the signal goes through a transistor buffer and onto a 10468 in 1:2 and is stepped back up by 6dB.  
4) After this the signal is amplified back up to line level by a BA183 card providing back the missing 25dB plus the makeup gain needed to account for compression.
The 33609 manual used to be available on the Neve site, if not send me aa email to ruairioflaherty ((at)) eircom **dot** net and I'll send it on to you.  
*
anycase thanks to mr : Ruairi

peace 6T9R
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on May 28, 2009, 11:54:45 AM
from 33609 :
4.1. APPLY 0DB TO INPUT. COM OFF, LIM OFF, BYPASS IN, MEASURE OUTPUT IS 0 DB,
CONNECT LINK TO CV 3.00V WITH CROCODILE CABLE. ADJUST RV2 TO GET -8 DB AT OUTPUT....

i assume we will have similar procedure like above on 2254c the monster, too :)

those 0 DB -8 DB means dbm (dbv) ... i can read dbm (dbv) on fluke 187...
am i good ?

this one can help you?
http://audio.rightmark.org/download.shtml

peace
6T9R
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on May 30, 2009, 12:37:43 PM

Hey Guys,

when matching Diodes with Vf for this and other projects, how many decimal places are you matching too?

My test set only goes to two decimal places, is this enough?

Cheers!

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 01, 2009, 03:15:18 PM
well i matched the diodes to two decimal places, hope thats going to be fine.

Igor, would it be ok to use 0-100uA meter for this project? just curious...

Im stuffed and soldered, almost ready to go...

 ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on June 02, 2009, 04:49:00 AM

Igor, would it be ok to use 0-100uA meter for this project? just curious...


Same question,  I have some 0-100uA (1k internal resistance) that I want to use here.

Thnx
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on June 03, 2009, 01:50:37 PM
Guys

Tat's 2254C case arrived today. Well packed and looks 100% as per the design that was on the thread he started thats no longer around.
Cant wait to start putting it all together now and start the interesting part of testing and listening  :)
Regards
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 04, 2009, 02:04:15 PM
Actually, 1ma meter should be used, but you can fix it with 500r multiturn pot, connect:
meter + to wiper;
meter - to min pot's pos;
meter's - and pot's min pos to gnd;
meter gr signal to max pot pos.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on June 04, 2009, 03:10:37 PM
Thank you
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kml23956 on June 04, 2009, 03:18:03 PM
Igor,

Sorry for my ignorance.  Does a power supply board come with the 2254c boards or is that seperate?

Kevin
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on June 04, 2009, 03:53:55 PM
it is a separate board and it does not come with the 2254 boards.you could use anything that can provide
adequate power and Igor has PSU boards for sale- see white market.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: guitarmaker on June 08, 2009, 12:22:52 PM
Can 1000uf cap substitute for 680uf cap in position C4?  That's what my kit came with but I wanted to make sure it'll be okay in that position.  Thanks.

Steve
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: TomWaterman on June 08, 2009, 06:55:23 PM
Mine is the same as Steve, will look at schemo asap, but I assumed 1000uF is OK there... havn't fitted yet. No time to finish for a few weeks. About 85% soldered up.

-T
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 09, 2009, 11:45:25 PM
1000uf cap is fine here, I used same on my 2254C. All caps in kits are good quality.
Power supply was offered separately for minor cost to keep price of kits low as possible.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 10, 2009, 12:20:20 PM


Hi Igor,

Got a slight problem with the R44 10r resistor smoking when connecting the output transformer, disconnect and it stops and all seems ok,

Im using the VTB9049, primary connections are 1 & 3, whilst joining 2&4.

so that all seems normal, and ideas Igor?

Cheers

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 10, 2009, 01:26:09 PM

Got it, was the smallest of shorts on the 2n3055. Got to make sure those heat sinks are lined up correctly!

Any hoo it works! ha ha..sounds bloomin great!

schweet!

 ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on June 10, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
We want pictures!!! Did you use a kit or your own parts? I'm still sourcing a few of mine...

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 10, 2009, 06:52:01 PM
Hi Matt,

well not much to see right now, this time i wanted to test the unit, make sure every thing works like it should then get the front panels made, rather than my normal do the front panel first and wish id waited!!

so i built 4, and i used the parts Igor supplied, Id be interested to know how much cheaper it would be to source the parts my self mind.. not alot in it i suspect..

the HPF is super cool on this, I have only tested it on drums, pushing it to the crushing extremes, sounds fab!!

So tomorrow will see calibration, more tests and measurements, make sure its all working and functioning and case em up!

 ;D



 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on June 14, 2009, 06:32:02 AM
Yeah. Let's see some pics. I still just have a pile of parts and haven't started.

Can the psu transformer be sourced from mouser?
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 14, 2009, 08:55:20 AM


Hi all, work in progress,

all working and calibrated, sounds wonderful!!

just need to finish my front panel design and hook it all up..



(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/22541.jpg)

(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/22542.jpg)

(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/22543.jpg)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: solderspongebob on June 14, 2009, 09:51:20 AM
 :o That's over £500 in transformers alone!!! Holy coils Batman!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 21, 2009, 10:40:36 PM
Holy sh*t dude!!!!
Nice pics!!!!

BTW, how does Carenhills sounds here?
Quote
Id be interested to know how much cheaper it would be to source the parts my self mind.. not alot in it i suspect..

I think same money as kit-pcb's...unless you building 100 units :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on June 22, 2009, 06:05:18 AM
Great Pics!

What info did u use to callibrate the units ?

cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on June 22, 2009, 01:29:04 PM


Quote
What info did u use to callibrate the units ?

just look at the circuit diagram, I think its then pretty obvious, if you are not sure i can tell you when i get home at look at the diagrams no sweat..




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on June 30, 2009, 09:40:48 AM
transformer molex connection guide
,
use with your own risk. check with audiomaintenance.com carnhill guide, and schematic

report errors....

9046 line in
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10(-) to molex
connect 6 to GRD molex

9045 interstage :
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10
6, ground molex


VTB 9049 output :
primary :
short pin 2-4
connect 1(+) -  3(-)

secondary :
short pin 6-7
connect pin 5(+) - 8(-)
ground the chases


thank you
kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: timcas on June 30, 2009, 10:40:32 AM
I've been using the Sowter 200:600 gapped output tranny for Neve-type line drivers for some years.
Never had a Carnhill to compare, but they seem to work well and many pro engineers have liked
the sound. Problem is, in the USA, poor dollar-to-pound ratio and high shipping makes them pricey.
I just got an Altran (altrancorp.com) version, and can not sonically tell it from the Sowter. It measures
very close in inductance and resistance, and looks the same on the scope. The good news -
$25 @ quantity 1. Definitely worth a try. Should work fine in this excellent project that I would certainly
love to build and use.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 08, 2009, 10:20:25 AM

Hi Chaps,

Work in progress still, waiting on a Marconi knob, but its up and working!!

sounds bloomin lovely! taken me ages to calibrateit so both sides are doing the same thing!!

the odd thing is when calibrating the meters, if for example you change the attack or release times, the meters seem to go out of wack a little with respect to each other, it may or may not be a problem for you, i am using 100ua meters and needed a 500ohm pot before the meter, the trick was to get the right balance from the 500ohm pot and the onboard adjustment.

Igor, re the  Link function, when engaged the right side is pulling slightly more GR than the left, is there some thing i can do to balance when in link mode that does not affect the unit when not linked?

any how pics so far....need to tidy up in side yet...

(http://www.sinestarproject.com/even2254f.jpg)

(http://www.sinestarproject.com/even2254.jpg)






Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on July 08, 2009, 10:25:33 AM
WOW!!! Where did you get the knobs!!! It looks amazing!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on July 08, 2009, 12:39:52 PM
indeed a very nice one!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 08, 2009, 04:01:18 PM
Yap. I used ST7 from Farnell, link:
http://il.farnell.com/anders-electronics/st7/vu-meter-rect-0-200ua/dp/7758200?_requestid=182388
and printed the scale by myself.

Meter connected this way:
200 Ohm 1/4W resistor connected in parallel (across the meter)
Plus of meter goes to 680 Ohm 1/4W resistor
Minus of meter goes to front pannel, to pad marked (-mtr1) (next to bypass switch)
Free leg of 680R resistor goes to front pannel, to pad marked (+mtr1) (next to bypass switch)

i am not sure if i understand this  ???

i have the same meter... fixed 200r in parallel... fine...but

where is this 690R come from... how exactly connected and, there is only one 680R and its on the main board  ???

thank you
kam


EDIT : ok miss understanding... its all clear now :)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on July 08, 2009, 04:50:05 PM
Yap. I used ST7 from Farnell, link:
http://il.farnell.com/anders-electronics/st7/vu-meter-rect-0-200ua/dp/7758200?_requestid=182388
and printed the scale by myself.

Meter connected this way:
200 Ohm 1/4W resistor connected in parallel (across the meter)
Plus of meter goes to 680 Ohm 1/4W resistor
Minus of meter goes to front pannel, to pad marked (-mtr1) (next to bypass switch)
Free leg of 680R resistor goes to front pannel, to pad marked (+mtr1) (next to bypass switch)

i am not sure if i understand this  ???

i have the same meter... fixed 200r in parallel... fine...but

where is this 690R come from... how exactly connected and, there is only one 680R and its on the main board  ???

thank you
kam






that is a series resistor from +meter pad on the FP board and goes to + on the VU. Now, I haven't started mine 2524c yet but I can't see what else can it be.
cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 08, 2009, 05:08:50 PM
YUUUPPPIIIEEEE  ;D

my units are running beautifully on my first fire  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
no hum, no noise, everything is working  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
i was pretty scared to do this as a newbie, but it turned out OK:)
thank you Igor... and rest of you guys.
especially RuudNL who explained me the transformers in general concept.  

EDIT : i love the low end on this thing... such a monster  ;D


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: TomWaterman on July 08, 2009, 07:21:08 PM
i am using 100ua meters...

Hey Pete, looking great. Mine are 90% done but have had no time the last month.

Are those Sifam Edgewise DC meters? If so where'd you get them, direct?

About to ping them an email for some 1mA edgewise parts like those.

They look great!

-T
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 01:40:02 AM
i cant calibrate with the 33609 calibration notes... its not exactly the same thing....
and i am newbie to follow 33609 circuit and adapt to 2254c

can somebody please send me the simplified calibration procedure.

thank you
kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 09, 2009, 08:45:03 AM

Hi Tom,

yes those are vintage edgewise Sifam meters, cost me an arm and a leg, but i like them, in fact i have some more i might sell..they are 100ua..

Cheers,

Pete





Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 10:04:03 AM
Hi SIXTYNINER.
i have connected them like this, and its all working fine... experts please check for errors
rest is easy, just follow the connection names...

9046 line in
primary :
short pin 3-4
pri molex connect +2 -5

secondary :
short pin 8-9
sec molex connect +7 - 10, GRND 6


9045 interstage
primary :
short pin 3-4
pri molex connect +2 -5

secondary :
short pin 8-9
sec molex connect +7 - 10, GRND 6


VTB 4049 output :
primary :
short pin 2-4
pri molex connect +1 - 3

secondary :
short pin 6-7
sec molex connect +5- 8

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 10:19:47 AM


Quote
What info did u use to callibrate the units ?

just look at the circuit diagram, I think its then pretty obvious, if you are not sure i can tell you when i get home at look at the diagrams no sweat..


Hi Pete, i will sure like to have this calibration info too. as newbie... thank you
kam


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 10:45:51 AM

HEY
please vtb 4049 can be replaced by vtb 9046?
cheers


no, 4049 is an output transformer 200/600 +4
9046 is a line in transformer...

edit : typo
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 09, 2009, 11:15:16 AM
Hi guys,

I know nothing of an official calibration proc, how ever points to think about, im at work so this is off the top of my head, don't hold me to any of this stuff, much better people will hopefully chime in, but this will get you started,

for start set up the voltages the same on both sides if you are making a stereo unit,

I found about a 1v for the CV, about 7v for the threshold, around a volt for the feedback although I have not played with this much to see if this changes any thing yet..leave the meters for now,

then line up for unity gain though the unit, make sure with no gain added with the unit engaged you get the same gain as when in bypass. of course use the gain trim for this..

feed a sine wave in to your 2254, and monitor the level out, maybe back into your DAW would be easy for you,
(this is of the top of my head so I could be wrong, im at work right now) but IIRC, set your threshold control to -20, feed a sine wave in at -20db, your output should read the same level, if not adjust the threshold until you have no compression, set it so its just off compression.

now push the level fader of the sine wave from -20 up to say 0db, watch for symmetry between left and right, both sides should compress the same is what you are looking for, if not quite moving together just play with the threshold until you do, once you are happy the unit is doing what is supposed to be doing then set up your meters..

got to dash, maybe Igor can give you some thing beter..

Cheers

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 11:48:07 AM
Thanks Pete....

i think, Igor is busy, hopefully he will upload the full calibration procedure soon,

kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 09, 2009, 11:56:50 AM
Try out the above, any questions just ask, if I can answer I will,

At the end of the day just play with it, see what affects what, you will soon get a feel for it im sure..

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 01:24:26 PM
Hi Pete, thanks for the help :)

have you managed to adjust RV1 ?
if i go to much on CCV  - RV1, its burning my R7" 47ohm  ???


EDIT : never had the same problem on ba283am i have built ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 09, 2009, 02:02:07 PM


No that should not be happening, mine do not do that, i wonder if you have some other component wrong around it?

in fact are you seeing any voltage change when you adjust it? if so what are you seeing there?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 02:12:14 PM
R7" trimmer's adjustment side ( facing the 9045-46) = 0 V
other end ( opposite to trimmer end)  , i am keeping it at around 1.5V, more CCV is giving more V,
and after certain point,
its going crazy... and BOOOOOM :)

lucky i have plenty of spares from BA283


EDIT : i have couple of built ba283's, i am gonna compare with them.. but the voltages seems ok for the BA part...
all the resistors are correct, transistors are all working with close enough V... i will get back...

EDIT 2 : R7" is starting to get really hot after around 4 V... is for equal clipping...  


EDIT 3: i have compared to my ba283's 183 part... its almost the same... i think i am on the safe side for the equal clipping adjustment...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 09, 2009, 05:14:22 PM


Hi Kambo,

its odd, im not seeing any thing like the range of voltages you are, cant see why r7" is burning out,  you have the trimmer in the right way?

i could be way off bur here is what i think..

with the trimmer in correctly you should have a constant 5k resistance across R7", then the tap of the trimmer feeds back to the input, so no mater how you set the trimmer R7" should not burn out.

what trimmers are you using, are you sure its has the same pin outs as indicated on the PCB?

cheers
pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 05:37:06 PM
Hi Pete,

its Igor's kit... after the first burn... i have replaced it, just incase... fitting is the same... from my stock 1290 parts.
it only starts burning, i if go CCV too much... i have tried on my ba283 board (neve 1290) its almost the same problem...
on extreme CCV setting same resistor getting way too hot. check the other topics for it... there seem to be a burning problem,
on ba183, if the trim_pot is not set correctly... i think i am ok on that.... i am on the safe side for equal clipping adjustment.
good thing i made some 1290's :)

i have almost calibrated my units, with 33609 testProc.
but i have to set my make_up_gain i click CV, and use it as 0db gain. i click CCV is -db...
so my +2db is set to 0, 0 set to -2db on scale....

if i set full CCV to 0, as it suppose to be,  then i am having problem as -0.7db on the output, i can get 0 db, but then when i adjust RV2, i can only get -0.7db max...
with one extra click set to 0, everything seems to make more sense. i have plenty of room to calibrate...

with this adjustment i have finished section 3 and 4 on Igors Simplified version of testProc :)

sorry for the English :)


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 06:03:34 PM
during the calibration,

where should i keep the attack, ratio, recovery, unless stated ?
 
even though threshold is set to 0, they are still interfering...




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 08:55:33 PM
what exactly is the +10 switch ?


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 09, 2009, 11:42:36 PM
i think i have sorted out everything and calibrated the unit with in +/- 0.3 db. i cant get any better...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 10, 2009, 01:40:09 AM
Woo hoo well done!

The +10 just pushes the range of the threshold up, if you have really hot signal going in you'll need it.
On the original 2254 the threshold control was 30db, but they were not using lorins 12 way switches, so it's Igors way of utilising much cheaper switches, works well I think.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 10, 2009, 02:18:30 AM
:)

thank you,

L and R are exact same calibration, -/+ 0db :)
vu meter responds the same :)

-/+ 0.3 db stuff, is on some in/out, on/off etc calibration stuff... but exact same values on both channels.
its all good...
i havent checked with scope for all that graph etc yet... but, it sounds ;D
i need to sleep its 9:00 am :)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: audiovisceral on July 10, 2009, 02:27:45 AM
So if I understand this project, it's a 2254 amp combined with a 33609 compression section (with added HPF and attack controls).

I like these controls, but would prefer the crispness of the 33609's BA440 class AB amp. Is it possible to modify for this?

Also, how are the noise levels on the finished units? What are you guys finding it useful on besides drum bus? Is it fast enough for kick/snare/toms?

Anyone got audio clips - anything at all?

Thanks  
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on July 10, 2009, 03:23:58 AM
Hi SIXTYNINER.
................

VTB 4049 output :
primary :
short pin 2-4
pri molex connect +1 - 3

secondary :
short pin 6-7
sec molex connect +5- 8


HEY kambo
In original i see vtb1148 at output
is  it the same of........?

cheers

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 10, 2009, 04:52:17 AM
yes, as far as i know its the same connection....

ps: corrected typo re:  out db values on 9049 on earlier post....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 17, 2009, 04:35:48 PM


Hi Igor,

not sure if you'd seen this yet...

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=34563.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=34563.0)

thanks Igor
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on July 18, 2009, 05:14:32 PM
Hey all, I can't find R34 on the BOM, on the PCB it's 47k, I assume the pcb is correct but just wanted to confirm.

THANKS! 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 18, 2009, 10:35:59 PM
Nope, I've just found the notification turned off.
R34 is 47k.
@audiovisceral : yes, you absolutely right,
" it's a 2254 amp combined with a 33609 compression section (with added HPF and attack controls)".
BA440 or  BA183, all this is matter of taste, I choosed 183, however, it is easy to use BA440 instead of BA183,
just a matter of wires and reading the schem thoroughtly.
2254C is fast as 33609, not audio-wise, (it has some darkness of 2254 if Neve trafos or subs used),
but time-response is same as 33609.
I think people who finnished the project can post some audio files.
@kam: I got your mail with "fixed, OK", but please explain (just curious) what was the problem with smoking resistors???
:)

BTW, test procedure from 33609 build thread is OK for 2254C,
same part numbers for sidechain and 33609-related components.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26218.0
Have to find some time for updating this thread.

And yes, big thanx to sinestaraudio for the help!!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on July 19, 2009, 02:11:47 PM
also, igor, r"19 is 820 on the pcb, but 1k on the BOM.  which is right?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 19, 2009, 02:45:28 PM
No matter, it can be in range of 680R...1k, it connected in series with trimpot.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on July 19, 2009, 11:23:17 PM
ok... please bear with me since i'm a major newbie...  (this is my first DIY project...)

i've gotten almost all the resistors onto the first channel except for the 27 and 33 on the mkup switch and the 130 on the attack switch.  from the kit (which i'd already split up for each channel), i'm left with 2 resistors labeled 27R4, and 2 resistors labeled 33R2...  how do i read those values?  not sure what the R means, and i thought the last digit was the multiplier, but that would mean i've got 3k3 and 270k and no 130...  *confused*

also, i'm a bit confused about what to put in the following spots on the PCB: J', R7, and R10...  any help for the new guy?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 20, 2009, 01:57:37 AM
J: jumper (piece of wire)
R7: 0R i.e. piece of wire
R10 N/A i.e. not available (do not install nothing)

27R4=27.4 Ohm
33R2=33.2 Ohm

All resistors in kit are in +/-2% range, because sometimes I have in stock,
for example, 46.4 Kohm 1% instead of 47 kOhm 5%.

2254 is not very good for first diy project.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on July 20, 2009, 09:43:12 AM
2254 is not very good for first diy project.

i see that now.  but i am learning a heck of a lot, and enjoying the crap out of myself, so it's all good. :)

thanks igor!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 20, 2009, 07:09:36 PM
Yap. Little by little. Will go fine with some patience.
Every day take some time for good porn reading, like Horovitz And Hill, Art Of Electronics.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 23, 2009, 01:39:24 PM

@kam: I got your mail with "fixed, OK", but please explain (just curious) what was the problem with smoking resistors???
:)

nice to see you back Igor :)

i am just back from my short holiday.
resistor was the one in the amp BA section (R7" 1/2w 47ohm) ... i did some research over it... and its normal to burn that
resistor if you go too much CCV on equal clipping setting...
my cases arrived today too... as soon as i finish my casing, i will send some sound samples...

best
kam




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on July 23, 2009, 08:39:49 PM
i will send some sound samples...

please do!

j
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 24, 2009, 03:37:36 AM
That's odd, my resistors do not burn up or even get hot....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 24, 2009, 03:57:36 AM
That's odd, my resistors do not burn up or even get hot....

when the units are calibrated and running, R7" doesnt get hot at all.... not even worm...
have you tried all the way CCV on your RV1 trim_pot while calibrating ?

EDIT : if you did extreme CCV, and they didnt get hot, then there is something seriously odd....
i have some BA283 line in modules  they behave the same... may be then we compare some Volt reading...
have you calibrated your RV1 using a scope ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on July 24, 2009, 05:42:25 AM
Had the same issue, with a resistor smoking when the trimmer in a full cw or ccw position (don't remember which one) in my 1272 build some time ago. I would set the  trimmer to the middle position before switching on the unit.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 24, 2009, 06:09:40 AM
I would set the  trimmer to the middle position before switching on the unit.

yep :) also,
for people without a scope,
keep the V around 1.8V on RV1 trimer-to-ground...

SIXTYNINER : check  the first page. Igor has some clear pictures....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on July 25, 2009, 03:29:19 AM
Yes i used a scope to adjust mine, I thought i did go through its full travel.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on July 25, 2009, 11:56:02 PM
***got it figured out, sometimes the catalog is way easier to navigate than the website***

I noticed some heat sinks in Igor's pics on Tr"3 (the 2n3055) does anyone have a mouser part#, I'm having a hard time sorting out what to order.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on July 26, 2009, 03:35:47 PM
makin progress on my first DIY project!  Just need to get ahold of some iron...

http://gallery.me.com/hal9thousand#100003/Neve%202254C%20project
http://gallery.me.com/hal9thousand#100003/Neve%202254C%20PCBs%20&bgcolor=black
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on July 29, 2009, 06:03:33 PM
I noticed some heat sinks in Igor's pics on Tr"3 (the 2n3055) does anyone have a mouser part#, I'm having a hard time sorting out what to order.
Thanks!

farnell : 4621359

those are littler larger than the Igor 's ones... but they still fit..




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 01, 2009, 04:57:52 AM
due damaged lorlin (left attack) , sound samples will be available next week.
kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 01, 2009, 12:25:54 PM
I need some help.  First off, this is my first DIY project, so i'm a VERY green newbie.  Is 2254C for a first DIY ambitious approaching the point of stupidity?  perhaps, but i'm already knee deep and i think i'm holding my own pretty well.
That said, i'm using igor's kit and besides an issue of some missing connectors and resistors, i'm a bit confused about some of the cap values.  perhaps someone here who's also using the kit can help me.  the only spots left to fill on the pcb are:

C3" - 4n7
C4" - 680u
C'4/C"4 - 80u
C'7/C"7 - 47
C'17/C"17 - 400u
CZ - 10n

I assume C10 stays empty...

here's all i've got left in the kit:

electrolithic -
- 100uF 50v
- 1000uF 25v
- 330uF 25v
- 470uF 35v
- 10uF 63v (x2)

poly/cog -
- WIMA 0.01 100-

another black rectangular cap labeled as follows:
CX16J
476M 9
9843 D

and another yellow axial cap labeled as follows:
S&E 1 22R
.0047 K
50VDC
8333 E
8424 E

and i'm not sure what should go where.  other than this, i'm totally stuffed and in the midst of trying to sell off other gear so i can buy a set of carnhills...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 01, 2009, 01:20:54 PM
sorry for the quality of the pics... its lap_top camera...
farnell damaged my front plates, ( you can see the edges are all bent, and i bent them back) until i get my new plates, i have been messing around with fronts, but i think like it...
they look much better in real life.
...
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/kambokambo/Photo56.jpg)
...
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/kambokambo/Photo57.jpg)
...
ohhh, top one is my favorite one :) EZ1290 line in... it will be 8ch NEVE summing box, in near future...
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/kambokambo/Photo60.jpg)
...
...

i was going to send some sound samples, but this compressor has an endless possibilities....
i was thinking  of adding a mod for 200ms release, but its funny, that you can get away with different
settings... as i said... it has endless possibilities... i will send better pictures, once i borrow a proper camera.

thanks again Igor, and all the DIY community here in Prodigy.  
kam


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 01, 2009, 05:13:12 PM

...
SENT many emails with all documentation about ,
to the "MR" IGOR .....
but no reply at now!!! ..........for case i have to call my Lawyer ??????

IS THIS SERIOUS?????????????????????????????
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
...
[/quote]

strange attitude...

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 04:04:14 AM
Sixtyniner,

the problem maybe in fact a few things,

Firstly I find it hard to understand you, pictures? they are on the first page, pictures of mine? I dont have a camera that can take close enough pictures to be of any use to you as I said to you before, but that’s not proper DIY any way, copying some else mistakes, sure enough if you have problems later on it may help but you have not started your builds so why do you require pictures.

Lets be honest this is not even what I would call REAL DIY, Igor has already made it incredibly easy for you.

Secondly all the information is here, I got stuck a few times too, but look a the diagrams,

I’m quite happy to help where I can as indicated in my PM’s but for what ever reason I am not able to help then continued pestering via PM is not the way to carry on..

I would suggest you start with building Lego, then work up from there...


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 04:08:23 AM
Kambo,

great build, built like a tank!

Can i ask why you did not solder the transformers on to the PCB? was it so you could make changes later on?

Great job, for me one of the best pieces i have built.

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on August 02, 2009, 04:50:43 AM
even though I have yet to complete my build (still building the studio to put the gear  :o)

I opted for not getting a complete kit and part of the fun is researching my own components etc.
That still meant I had a HUGE amount of sorting, value testing & double checking to make sure the values were right etc...
Not to mention that Import duty I got stung for buying from Mouser which I could have avoided had I gone with the kit

I'm using this forum and the community as my source of information and I'm very grateful for the folk here who contribute with tips/ideas etc.

Thanks everyone for a great forum
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 05:44:20 AM
thank you Pete.
not as good as your ones, but i am sure they sound the same :)

reason i didnt solder the transformers ;
in case of easy repair and option to try different iron in future...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 06:16:58 AM
updated tranie guide:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg420310#msg420310

check with the schematic. download carnhill transformers guide from audiomaintenance.com
read all available 33609 pages.
read BA283 pages
read original 2254 thread... ( very first one )
for calibration, refer to 33609 pages. leave "attack" at fast when calibrating ( 8'o clock).

some cap values on kit may not match pcb.... but Igor already mentioned that... leave those ones to last,
you will find them where they belong.

i have no digital camera either. but, i referred to Igor's pictures at first page.
i only got stuck at interstage transformer wiring, due, schematic and old tranie... other than that, i am a beginner and
worked at first fire up... first calibration was 0.3. after placing everything in to case, re-calibrated and its 0.1db now.


Igor's kit may look messed up at first. but it was very cleaver and structured way he did. he separated main pcb and controller parts in different packing. thats way it looks messy, until you understand whats going on.
i dont think, anyone here on prodigy doing kits, has time for packing every single component to different plastic bag with specific labeling, as farnell or mouser.

measure each component before solder anyway... even if you get them from mouser.... it took my couple of hours to sort Igor's kit. and labeling them, and separating them for main pcb and controller pcbs. i even made some changes on kit components... i used different tant and soldered them from the other side of the pcbs on controller boards etc... so, if you see mine pcb's in detail you may get well confused...

i am pretty new to here... but i have realized, if i ask something already answered, ..........
will delete this post later this week to keep the thread clean... as everything is covered before.
kam




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 06:22:15 AM
sixttynine

i'm not entertaining you any more,

suffice to say i think you are showing every one why I did not leap to help you..

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 06:36:27 AM
sixttynine
i'm not entertaining you any more,
suffice to say i think you are showing every one why I did not leap to help you..


sixttynine i must agree with Pete.

you are missing the point. everybody has its own way to finish this project.
i have even changed some resistor values from the kit. read Igor's %2 comment....
if you are not able to solder the switches....., well then....
2254 is not entirely a beginners project.

everything else you need to finish this project is here.
kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 02, 2009, 07:43:59 AM
Quote
suffice to say i think you are showing every one why I did not leap to help you..

on each forum on WORLD WILD WEB, there the same specimen! hater!

but Pete I must , I think you're quite suffisant, showing everybody your truely beautifull and well builded gear like you were touched by the DIY God hand.
it's very annoying...could you just be a loser like everyone else. ;D

ok, just joking  ----> I'm out.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: radiance on August 02, 2009, 07:58:11 AM
..........for case i have to call my Lawyer ??????


You're kidding right? ......
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 10:08:31 AM


OK i think you are missing the point,

but lets start again, what exactly do you require? what is it you need help with?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 02, 2009, 10:37:14 AM
well gosh, look at all this hullabaloo.

i was VERY meticulous about making sure i was putting the right parts in the right spots on the pcb.  the caps i have left vs. the values marked on the remaining pcb vacancies reflect much more of a discrepancy than +/- 2%.  also, my kit WAS missing two 47K resistor, two 130 resistors, and about TEN of those molex connectors.  yes, ten.  i wasn't going to make a huge stink about this in the main thread, because i know igor does a lot around here and didn't want to publicly crucify him for what may just be a silly mistake, but i PM'd and emailed him a week ago and have heard nothing in return.  some of the components i have left are WAYYYYY off the values marked on the PCB and BOM and some of the components i just don't know how to identify.  so all things considered i think i'm doing pretty effing good at not needing someone to hold my DIY-virgin hand through this whole thing.  would it help if i posted pics of the components I have left?  i'm just at a standstill and would like to at least get these caps figured out while i'm waiting for igor to acknowledge my missing pieces.

and also, whoever made the legos comment, just so you know, i laughed out loud and woke up my fiance when i read that.  and also tried to think about how one could build a DIY enclosure out of legos.  talk about a conversation piece for your studio. 

Client:
"what did your kid make that for you or something?"
You:
"no, that's our bus compressor, your whole mix is running through that."
Client:
"weird."
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 10:44:42 AM

Hi RightOnMusic,

yeah I think the lego thing went straight over his head..

any hoo, sure post some pics of what you have left and we can tell you what they are no problem..

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 02, 2009, 10:50:29 AM
i was VERY meticulous about making sure i was putting the right parts in the right spots on the pcb.  the caps i have left vs. the values marked on the remaining pcb vacancies reflect much more of a discrepancy than +/- 2%.  also, my kit WAS missing two 47K resistor, two 130 resistors, and about TEN of those molex connectors.  yes, ten.  i wasn't going to make a huge stink about this in the main thread, because i know igor does a lot around here and didn't want to publicly crucify him for what may just be a silly mistake, but i PM'd and email......................................

hi rightonmusic
i agree partially to you,
Igor is a "great" noble guy.........(that Share .. and sell too)
as i posted , my parts troubles is a problem caused by shipping guys,
i don't pretend replacement,
asked only fiew info about parts specs.
"L E G O" can be a good name for Nice New Professional Pro Audio TOY..
have nice beers
 8)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 02, 2009, 10:55:03 AM
OK i think you are missing the point,
but lets start again, what exactly do you require? what is it you need help with?
Sorry ,
the point is ever the same :
Sharing !
 8)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 10:58:31 AM


OK, what is it you would like me to share with you? im trying my best here man..
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 11:10:58 AM
KAM :
not able to solder ?
WANT YOU JOKING ?
ME NOT!!!!!!
 8)

i dont understand asking help for switches on this project... as its quoted before, this is not entirely a beginners project.
so, asking help on switches is a little odd...

there still isnt a wiring guide on first page... as you dont really need one. everything is clearly marked on all PCBs.
only one pair of cable needs to be shielded, and its pointed by Igor... even though, it doesnt have to be shielded... twisted cables works just fine too...

if you do little reading, you wouldnt be so frustrated as you are now.
and its clear that, Peter from sinestaraudio were helping you, up until your lawyer issue.
i remember sending clear instructions as much as i could too.

i have updated the wiring guide for tranies too, just for you....
which you could find out your self, just by reading carnhill transformer guide, and the schematic. only confusing part was
interstage tranie, and its wiring guide posted by me, long time ago.


besides of all that, this is a DIY forum, NOT MONEY SAVING forum. there is a huge difference between DIY and commercial shopping. i, my self dont freaking need 2254c, nor sontec. i am not gonna make better music just because i made them.
but, its good fun, and affordable fun, and some internet socializing. i might even go visit Igor, when i get some free time.

if you wanna save just $$$ without any trouble, research, reading, i suggest you watch ebay, and save yourself trouble here on prodigy :)

after all, your tranie wiring guide is up,
pictures from Igor are just fine.
what else you really need... you need to send pictures and ask for help....


kam

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 02, 2009, 11:15:17 AM
well ok, here goes:

first off, here are the vacancies I have yet to fill on the main PCB:

C3" - 4n7
C4" - 680u
C'4/C"4 - 80u
C'7/C"7 - 47
C'17/C"17 - 400u
CZ - 10n

I assume C10 stays empty...

and here's a pic of said vacancies:
(http://www.urban-fetch.com/2254C/Vacancies.jpg)

and here are the components left in my kit:  (obviously, i have two sets of these components, these are what i have left per channel)
(http://www.urban-fetch.com/2254C/Caps.jpg)



also, sixtyniner, here is a pic of where my control pcbs are currently at.  is this what you were looking for?
(http://www.urban-fetch.com/2254C/CTRLpcb.jpg)



sorry for the huge pics, i just wanted the values to be easily read.  i'll get rid of the huge pics once it's all sorted out.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 11:34:53 AM
OK ROMusic,

Here is one mistake, that brown electrolytic CAP on the com_recovery is wrong, take that out and put that square flat black you have in there instead, that black flat one is 47u Tant.

EDIT then put the brown 47uf you have kust taken out and put it on the main board C"7

you probably be fnie with putting the spare 470uf in C17, but if you are doing an order anyway...

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 11:47:38 AM
1000uf 25v on top  second to left where 680uf marked C4"

4n7f = your yellow cap .0047k

black requare one is your tant, goes to controller board.... as Pete mentioned...

red wima goes next to molex connection on right...

n/a means leave it empty :)

more to come....


EDIT : 330/25 top left c"17
EDIT : 47uf elect on your controller goes to bottom right c'7
EDIT : 100uf/50v goes to c'4.... in front of orange/yellow cap
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 11:51:50 AM
also as Kambo says That yellow .0047 goes into C3"

I had some that did not fit, but Igor does say for some of them you can substitute similar values, how ever i order up the few that i needed from RS or Farnell..

Right On music you are almost there dude!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 11:59:27 AM
i didnt use the tant in kit either...

i think you are done... let us know if anything else is missing...

that was fast, wasnt it....

kam



EDIT : looks like you have some extra caps.... i had some extra too.... make sure, go through with part placement pdf again, and check every single component... it works on first fire, no problem... if you are going to use molex for tranies, wiring guide is back in some pages...

EDIT : Pete , could you just double check my part placements to make sure everything in its order... thanks


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 02, 2009, 12:26:30 PM
All Forums - Community
Are founded on the Sharing concept .
.........
Hello - "KAMBO"
before all : many thanks for all info-helps , you gave and SHARED !
**********

Below some reply  :) :

[/quote]
i dont understand asking help for switches on this project... as its quoted before, this is not entirely a beginners project.
so, asking help on switches is a little odd...
[/quote]

I don't asked really nothing about how to solder switches !
I asked to a "Uk Guy" (not to you ) and only as : SHARE ,
A MAIN PCB PICTURE , WITH PARTS PLACED CORRECTLY !
.....what have you read?
 ???

[/quote]
there still isnt a wiring guide on first page... as you dont really need one. everything is clearly marked on all PCBs.
[/quote]
* Sorry man !
Some other guys found differences between that signed on the pcb ,
and that on the scheme and on the bom list ,
then obviously and lawful asked what info , have to be keep as true/valid !
all here ,  :)

[/quote]
be so frustrated as ....................
[/quote]
* Sorry man ! really not frustraded for nothing !
only posted clearly what is :  "SHARE" and what is this forum !
and that have to be keeped in mind by "who"  only "suck" from this community.
all here
 8)

[/quote]
Peter from sinestaraudio were helping.....
[/quote]
* For the same reason about "SHARING",  (also posted too)
first time i pmd to mr Pete , he reply me saying: i'm away in holyday....when i come back
i send you all " that you need" etc.......(i said :many thanks mr Pete)
i pm to mr Pete  20 days after .........
finally he reply : i don't have info about , i don't understand.........
oops   ???
before he said : i send you all that you need.......
later he said : i don't have info about ....
Mr Pete if do not want "Share" info , say it before .
no problem!
and be happy.
 ;D

[/quote]
lawyer issue.
[/quote]
* If you read well , It's not direct to you.
but simply meant as playful way : if nobody reply or post info etc.... ,
who can do it , the "lawyer" ?
all here
 8)

[/quote]
i have updated the wiring guide for tranies too, just for you....
[/quote]
* Yeah , many many thanks !!!   ;)
for me (that i asked , if someone do something about)
but after you posted the wiring "info" Also all the other "people" that sucks info from this forum and don't SHARE ,
and not even say thanks! ("strange world" internet)  
Anyway i really appreciated and said : MANY THANKS !
 8)

[/quote]
this is a DIY forum, NOT MONEY SAVING forum. there is a huge difference between DIY and commercial shopping.
i, my self dont freaking need 2254c, nor sontec. ..................
[/quote]
* YESSSSSSSS i agree , a really precious diy forum : born , founded, and become that it is ,
ONLY AND ONLY thanks to the :  SHARE - SHARING concept !
that give possibility to the "People",  ......... (...Robyn Hood  ;D  )
to get for "fews" Moneys $$$ ,
nice expensive audio "pieces" - "tools" ,
necessary for work , for hobby,
also for "Certain people" for get $$$ ,
 8)

[/quote]
pictures from Igor are just fine.
[/quote]
*Sorry man !
But at today: August 02, 2009, many pictures posted by igor (at the start of this "conference"),
are "wrong",
for example the picture about main pcb with parts it's different then that shipped to me.
 8)

[/quote]
what else you really need... you need to send pictures and ask for help....
[/quote]
*just done man !  ;)
I posted pictures with details i have (check preview pages),
also posted all my "little" helps i got ,
as ever , and as i want to do (SHARE) ever in the future !
 8)

KAMBO
Have a really nice , much of all that you like !
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 02, 2009, 12:33:46 PM
man are you a terrorist or some thing?!.

I think it is very evident that you are hard to understand, this is my problem with you, i do not understand your English..

Man it’s a shame this thread has gone to rat shiz..there really was no need for it, i have tried to help you, even just a few posts above if you care to look.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 01:09:48 PM
man are you a terrorist or some thing?!.

couldnt agree more  ;D


EDIT : Igor, please save us...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 02, 2009, 02:20:46 PM
@ SIXTYNINER
please...

(http://images.sodahead.com/images/polls/0/0/0/2/4/9/1/4/0/polls_MEANPEOM_5609_332223_poll_xlarge.jpeg)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 02, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think what SIXTYNINER wants is a detailed photo of all PCBs with the parts FROM THE KIT on them.

SIXTYNINER, so far no one has this.  People who have completed this project have used parts OTHER than the ones in the kit, so their pictures wouldn't be what you're looking for (a sort of paint-by-numbers DIY, if you will?).

Guys, thank you so much for your help with the caps.  Now all I need is for Igor to get back to me about the missing pieces (which I'll probably just end up having to source myself even though I paid for them as part of the kit...) and I need to stuff the PSU board.  Is there a BOM for the PSU?  
I am very grateful to have this wonderful resource available to me and I am grateful for all of you.  I love building this stuff and am looking forward to learning more about how it all works.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 02, 2009, 02:26:15 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think what SIXTYNINER wants is a detailed photo of all PCBs with the parts FROM THE KIT on them.

SIXTYNINER, so far no one has this.  People who have completed this project have used parts OTHER than the ones in the kit, so their pictures wouldn't be what you're looking for (a sort of paint-by-numbers DIY, if you will?).

Guys, thank you so much for your help with the caps.  Now all I need is for Igor to get back to me about the missing pieces (which I'll probably just end up having to source myself even though I paid for them as part of the kit...) and I need to stuff the PSU board.  Is there a BOM for the PSU?  
I am very grateful to have this wonderful resource available to me and I am grateful for all of you.  I love building this stuff and am looking forward to learning more about how it all works.

visit the 33609 thread. psu is the same.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 02:32:15 PM
i make it easier for you :)
PSU
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26218.msg317261#msg317261


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 02, 2009, 02:40:35 PM
thx!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 02, 2009, 03:13:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think what SIXTYNINER wants is a detailed photo of all PCBs with the parts FROM THE KIT on them.
hi
RightOnMusic ,thanks for post!
I asked exclusively this :
someone can post some "cool" picture , about tested pcb , with "right" parts fitted ?
(as help for anybody that need it)

nothing else !

do you think 4-5 university bachelors ,are required for understand it ?

Another forum member "pmd" me , this message:
don't worry man... ,  too many damaged drugs around the world !
nothing change until they don't change the "pusher" ......
"crazy things"........
  ???
dear RightOnMusic  , hope you have a nice day.
cheers as always
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 02, 2009, 03:27:36 PM
diyfanatic
hi diyfanatic
ok, we can joke ourselves over....

 ;D   ;D

Unfortunately it cannot give aid to this thread
cheers
as always

 
 ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 02, 2009, 03:38:16 PM
sixtyniner, can you list the persons who finished the project so far...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 02, 2009, 04:19:36 PM
noway, I don't want to give Aids to nobody... ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on August 05, 2009, 01:30:51 PM
would it be possible to use marinair 10368 xfrmrs for this project?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 05, 2009, 02:41:15 PM

yes it will work, but read this..

http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=295&forum=DCForumID1 (http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=295&forum=DCForumID1)

cheers

pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 06, 2009, 06:36:09 AM
here some better quality pics with friends phone...

EDIT : laser cut fronts panels are due couple of more weeks, come cabling will be re-done once the fronts arrives...
this front will be cut down and will be fitted behind the actual laser front... thats way shafts are longer at the moment.
 

(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/kambokambo/IMG_0356.jpg)

...
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/kambokambo/IMG_0360-1.jpg)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on August 06, 2009, 11:59:04 AM


hope your not showing off now Kam!  ;)

that's great, really clean, love to see the fronts when they arrive.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 06, 2009, 12:35:54 PM
hope your not showing off now Kam!  ;)

not just yet  ;D, just kidding

that's great, really clean, love to see the fronts when they arrive.

thank you Pete, me too. couple more weeks  8)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on August 10, 2009, 04:53:30 PM
Hi Igor (et al),

Please confirm something for me... the issue of VU meters is NOT covered in the BOM for this project.

In your initial post here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29977.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29977.0) you claim that the Sifam AL19 can be used, but this is a VU meter, elsewhere it has been suggested that this projects meter is infact a DC 1mA meter and that the Sifam Presenter 19 series is a better part?

You actually posted this back on page 5 of this thread:

Quote
Actually, 1ma meter should be used

I see that this meter is available in various scales, how much GR is unit capable of and how do these meters calibrate in relation to them?

Anyone at the stage of sourcing VU meters yet? I already have my cases cut out for the presenter range now just trying to make it all fit together.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 10, 2009, 08:32:08 PM
Hi guys, I had no notifications about this thread from 1st august, maybe it gone under tones of mails...dunno.
Anyway, now I have bit of time (finnished some non-audio projects
and moved from 12-14 hr/day worktimetable to normal 9-10 hr a day :)

Let's try to answer the q's...
@ RightOnMusic: I PM'd you all the questions about caps etc, feel free to post it here
if it can be helpful to others builders.

@ Kam: I happy about your 2254C, BTW, this is an example if the hands are grewing from right place,
the man who not very familar with electronics can make relatively complicated audio unit working
and sounding, just with some patience and motivation. Cheers!

@69'r: sorry, man, RTFM. First, something like a book about how to communicate with people.
It can be Karnegi, not best (IMHO) or The Tao of Pooh as IMHO good one :)
Second, Horovitz and Hill, Art Of Electronics. You will spend less time on this reading than
arguing with the people, but with way better results both for your nerves and others pleasure.
About NOBODY SHARING and simple human relations.
People neither bad or good, but just a mirror.
At least not [email protected] sorry, drill the people with the questions already answered, pointed, etc.
I can't answer the questions from mail you sent by simple reason it is about
draw every part, arrow, and type "take this please into your hand, put there,
take the soldering iron, solder it here", every step with video guide.
And please stop call me superigor in caps, it is no good for keyboard karma :)
Many people received their kits, freaked about hour-three with sorting (sorry, it is impossible to put
every single part in single packet with sticker where it goes)....and so on.

Kam, if you will like to delete the post you mentioned, please leave this:

.....................
updated tranie guide:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg420310#msg420310

check with the schematic. download carnhill transformers guide from audiomaintenance.com
read all available 33609 pages.
read BA283 pages
read original 2254 thread... ( very first one )
for calibration, refer to 33609 pages. leave "attack" at fast when calibrating ( 8'o clock).
.................
some cap values on kit may not match pcb.......leave those ones to last,
you will find them where they belong.
.....................................
i have no digital camera either. but, i referred to Igor's pictures at first page.
i only got stuck at interstage transformer wiring, due, schematic and old tranie... other than that, i am a beginner and
worked at first fire up... first calibration was 0.3. after placing everything in to case, re-calibrated and its 0.1db now.
.............................................
Igor's kit may look messed up at first. ........... he separated main pcb and controller parts in different packing.
thats way it looks messy, until you understand whats going on.
..........................................

measure each component before solder anyway...
even if you get them from mouser....
it took my couple of hours to sort Igor's kit.
and labeling them, and separating them for main pcb and controller pcbs.
............................................


It is a way helpfull.

@RightOnMusic: I did not received mail from you with missing components IIRC or maybe it is gone somewhere...
OK. In any case, send me pm and as it was several times I sent the missing components without requiring
any additional costs. If this was my fault, I have to fix it.


Kam and Sinestar answered about cap questions, lot of thanx. No sharing???? Hm... :)
Thanx a lot again, guys!

Regarding the terrorists. @6tnr, PLEASE go to the cinema and watch "Bruno".
Tones of positive emotions :)

I tried to keep my english understandable this time.




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 10, 2009, 08:43:19 PM
Matta, 1 MA Sifam. Like this:
http://il.farnell.com/sifam/19w0-1ma0-100/meter-19w-0-1ma/dp/1262061

Faster and cheaper (both better) meter is ST7.
http://il.farnell.com/anders-electronics/st7/vu-meter-rect-0-200ua/dp/7758200
It needs different scale (request by mail) and one little trick.
Take 200R resistor and put in parallel to ST7, and 680R resistor in series.
This way it close to 1ma full scale.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 11, 2009, 10:00:57 AM
@69'r: sorry, man, RTFM. First, something like a book about how to communicate with people.
It can be Karnegi, not best (IMHO) or The Tao of Pooh as IMHO good one :)
Second, Horovitz and Hill, Art Of Electronics. You will spend less time on this reading than
arguing with the people, but with way better results both for your nerves and others pleasure.
About NOBODY SHARING and simple human relations.
People neither bad or good, but just a mirror.
At least not [email protected] sorry, drill the people with the questions already answered, pointed, etc.
I can't answer the questions from mail you sent by simple reason it is about
draw every part, arrow, and type "take this please into your hand, put there,
take the soldering iron, solder it here", every step with video guide.
And please stop call me superigor in caps, it is no good for keyboard karma :)
Many people received their kits, freaked about hour-three with sorting (sorry, it is impossible to put
every single part in single packet with sticker where it goes)....and so on.

That i done is only and simply this:
1-Asked for large good  picture about pcb with parts placed ,
ONLY AND ONLY AS HELP FOR ANYBODY NEED IT !!!!!
(overall because the pcb+parts pictures you posted in first page are not the same of the pcbs sent)

"One" Guy of the "Others"  reply with : I don' have a good "Camera" for ..........
 :o
Strangely some day after (that reply) , same "One" Guy ,  
post supercool pictures in a "FOR SALE 2254" units at black market ecc....page,
 :o

No camera for help any other guys...... , but supercamera ready for sell and get $$$ money.....
 ;D  typical "UK".........
want you joke ? ….....no problem !!

2: Really no need video guide......!!!
3: Don't asked you part replacement or money refound !
    only Asked you some supplyer part code or hyperlink, where get them !!!

Hey mr : spent a lot of time to check and re-check parts , and report you parts missed
with extremely clear documents, photo and descriptions,
wno reply about !

WANT YOU JOKE ???
no problem !!!

 8)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 11, 2009, 10:16:48 AM
I am not joking. As long as here is SUPPORT THREAD, please remove your debats to brewery etc,
to let other people finnish their units in more comfortable way.
Regarding your questions: in reply to your mail, I answered about month ago, if there are missing parts,
please send me the list, will send them without charge. I don't see a problem with your 2254 kit especially.
There IS other problem, but please move it to brewery 'cause it is offtopic for this thread.

Quote
the reply was : I don' have a good "Camera" for


I have good enough camera. Anyone else did not asked the question about picture's resolution.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/3.jpg
There was previous revision of pcb, people asked some questions, they were answered,
most of these questions can be easy figured out from reading the schem and comparing to pcb.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 11, 2009, 10:26:24 AM
here we go again...

Quote
...something like a book about how to communicate with people.
sometimes silence is gold.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 11, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
:)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 11, 2009, 10:35:57 AM
I am not joking. As long as here is SUPPORT THREAD, please remove your debats to brewery etc,
to let other people finnish their units in more comfortable way.

to the brewery ?
already said to the : "others" ?

[/quote]
Regarding your questions: in reply to your mail, I answered about month ago,
your reply was:
if there are missing parts, please send me the list, will send them without charge.
I don't see a problem with your 2254 kit especially.
[/quote]
:o :o :o
...you have all parts info on email from +/- 2 month , lost mail?
re-sent it , few minutes ago !

 :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 11, 2009, 10:47:09 AM
Quote
2254C-PCB-STOPPED-BY#BDA.jpg (159KB), 2254C-DIODES-TRANS-LED+.jpg (128KB), 2254C-CONNECTORS-.jpg (87KB), 2254C-ic-trans-relay-.jpg (105KB), 2254c-capacitors-P2 wimA+.jpg (123KB), 2254C-CAPACITORS-P1-.jpg (126KB)

hello igor
after 6/7 weeks , many troubles and problems...... ,
i finally finished to separate and check the 2254c kits parts,
arrived mixed by shipping,
please see attached picture ( i sent you 2 emails , for try to avoid
antispam kill attached)
then i'm stopped at first pcb of the 2 i got from you
let me know
how we can do for complete kits and proceed with this killer project
thanks in advance
cheers
m.
6T9R


What do you want from me?

Here pictures of SAME kit as yours assembled by me.

I used same schematics and pcb drawing as posted on first page.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020690.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020687.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020684.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020682.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020679.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020676.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020659.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020658.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1020654.jpg
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 11, 2009, 10:55:53 AM
List of missing parts in human readable form.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 11, 2009, 11:00:41 AM
Quote
do you have said also to all the : "others" ?
LOST season 2 episode 5
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on August 11, 2009, 11:09:38 AM
List of missing parts in human readable form.

all parts in pictures have the exactly proper value signed near it.
don't you see ?

 :)

diyfanatic want you joke ? 
;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: diyfanatic on August 11, 2009, 12:12:28 PM
it's a hard choice between laughing or crying dude...

good luck Igor.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: djn111 on August 11, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
The guys English is very poor what he  means is a rapport on how he is going along, not missing any parts as I can read between the line's, I think he does not mean it very bad, but he is probably using a translator program :-(

Maybe it's better when he ask something, to check his text with a better spoken person.

:-)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: radiance on August 11, 2009, 04:50:46 PM
but he is probably using a translator program :-(

This could be it.

Sixtyniner: may I ask, what is your first language? And you location? I mean, EU/USA is kind of broad...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on August 17, 2009, 04:21:08 AM
Hi Guys,

A couple more questions if you will...

Looking at Igor's 33609 pics it seems deflection on the meter happens from Left to Right from 0 - 1mA at full deflection? This is opposite way of a traditional meter, at least with regards to measuring GR, which starts at 0 to the right and deflects from Right to Left? Correct? In much the same way the GSSL/SSL works. I have the option of choosing my own scale, so I'm thinking 0-20 works best in this case.

Right, the power supply... I found the partslist here (don't think it is in this thread, so posted here to help for others):

Quote
BOM for power supply:
1            LM317T              IC2
3   0.1      C5/2.5             C2, C3, C4
2   1N4004     1N4004             D1, D7
4   1N5400     1N5400             D9, D10, D11, D12
1   3k57       R-EU_0207/10       R5
1   10K        TRIM_EU-RJ9W       R6
1   25k        R-EU_0207/10       R2
1   50r         R-EU_0207/10       R4
2   100ux50v  CPOL-EUE3.5-8      C5, C7
1   196r      R-EU_0207/10       R1
1   4700u 50v     CPOL-EUE10-25      C13
1   TL071P   TL071P             IC1
1   Heatsink for lm317

Right, on the 1N5400 Diodes, I assume assuming that any of the family can be used, 1N5401, 5402, 5403 etc, only difference is max voltage me thinks and possible physical size... it is proving hard to find straight up 1N5400's here, which I think at 50V max rating.

Now, torrid? Anyone know how much current these puppies draw? Pete I see you used some in yours, where they custom wound or off the shelf from RS or Farnell? It seems they will run off a singe 24VAC winding.

Thanks in advance.... getting closer each day to putting these to rest!

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 17, 2009, 04:39:18 AM
i used 1N5401 in my 33609 psu. and for the toroidal i used a 30VA 2x12V sec 1,25A.
found here http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=15274;PROVID=2402 (http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=15274;PROVID=2402)
works perfect in 33609.
hope that helps...
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on August 17, 2009, 04:46:52 AM
yeap, u r right meter works from L to R .... just like any other current neve stuff i know of.
scale is up to your needs really....



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 17, 2009, 05:38:03 AM
Hi Matta, regarding toroid, 1A 24V will work fine.
VU-meter I used is ST7 from Farnell.
I printed the scale myself, feel free to request .pdf
Use 220R in paralel to meter than 680R in series to get approx. 1ma full scale.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on August 31, 2009, 09:11:34 AM
Hi bros,
I've been swamped with work, 2 records and other DIY and haven't even cracked open my 2254c kit.  Is anyone in the same boat at me?

-bb
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 31, 2009, 12:22:51 PM
Hi bros,
I've been swamped with work, 2 records and other DIY and haven't even cracked open my 2254c kit.  Is anyone in the same boat at me?


yes. same here...
alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 31, 2009, 03:34:38 PM
Absolutely, NO GOOD :)
What is the reson-time or it's too complicated???
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bradb on August 31, 2009, 03:42:38 PM
just too damn busy!

I haven't even started!

aside from work, bands, making records, dealing with a wife...

i've got 2 MK7s the finish, 4 REDD 47s to finish... its just coo coo over here.

I just hope that i don't come back in several months with a question and people are like........"HUH?" 

like i'm rip van winkle or some sh*t!

;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 31, 2009, 04:32:35 PM
Absolutely, NO GOOD :)
What is the reson-time or it's too complicated???

nope, just looking for some time. and everything should be well prepared. of course, my second (i.j.)neve gets its customized housing...  ;D
cheers buddies!
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 31, 2009, 05:58:37 PM
Aha, OK than. Looking forward to see assembled baby's :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on September 13, 2009, 03:34:45 PM
I'm just about finished stuffing my boards and I'm left with a few things I need some help clarifying...

RV1: It has a different pinout on the pcbs than the other 5k trimmers, and is labeled rj9w, where as the others are s64w.  Searching rj9w on mouser didn't yield anything and looking through the catalog there was no answer that i could discern.  So, what does the different pinout mean and how can I determine what is the correct part?

Some Caps: On the PCB a number of caps have an "m" designation, i.e. 100m (C3) but 100u on the BOM.  I take it that these are 100 microfarads (uf) and not 100 milifarads (mf).  Is that correct?

Low ESR:  I'm having a little trouble sourcing a 1000uf that will fit nicely on the board, how much wiggle room is there in the value of CPS?

Thanks!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 14, 2009, 04:34:25 AM
RV1= BA283 equal clipping trimpot.. i have used regular trimpot...
100m = 100uf
1000uf lowesr = you should be ok with vishay BC axial series... that what i ordered for my next build.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on September 14, 2009, 08:01:39 AM
Thank you for setting that straight.  For the sake of learning could you (or anyone else) explain what the different pinout for the RV1 trimmer is all about?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on September 17, 2009, 08:35:18 AM
US builders (or anywhere really), is anyone using the cinemags or lundahls discussed in the 33609 thread?  The cinemags are about a $100 savings before taxes and shipping over the carnhills, worth it in my mind, but not if they don't jive well with the project. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on September 17, 2009, 06:57:51 PM
I had no experience with Cinemags, however, this company makes good trafo's as I know from people.
They definately should have types which will match here.
Worth to try. Interesting to know about listening experience.

Kam, thanx, you was fater than me!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 19, 2009, 02:31:34 PM
US builders (or anywhere really), is anyone using the cinemags or lundahls discussed in the 33609 thread?  The cinemags are about a $100 savings before taxes and shipping over the carnhills, worth it in my mind, but not if they don't jive well with the project.  

just tried cinemag CMOQ-2S on BA283 line input module...
i wouldnt strongly recommend on the output, ( as its suggested on 33609 thread)
but on the input matter of choice... carhills somewhat slower... cinemag seems little more faster, if you know what i mean  ::)
you would need to adjust the gain structure tho... they are not the same...
i would stick with carnhills, if you want classic sound...
use cinemag, if you are willing to do some extra work, and slightly different sound...
hope this helps...


edit: saying all that... i will use some cinemag in my mixer...
edit 2: sowter is an option too... i think prodigy.com is main US distributor.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on September 19, 2009, 05:21:45 PM
Thanks so much Kambo.  I think I'll stick with the carnhills, I'm sure either brand will sound excellent but I don't want to have to screw around with the circuit if I don't have to.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on October 06, 2009, 07:30:59 AM
Hey Guys,

Well I'm making progress!

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254C_Case.jpg)

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254C_PCB.jpg)

I still have a couple questions I'm hoping for some help with.

1. I'm struggling to find a 310R resistor for the COM-MKUP stage, I assume a 300R will be fine?
2. R41 on the PCB shows 1K5, though the BOM shows 1K2, which is correct?
3. How are you guys testing your 4153 diodes for matching? Igor recommends they are matched, just wondering how you are doing so?
4. RE transformers, I'm using the Carnhill replacements for the old Marinairs, I assume T1 is the LINE INPUT and T2 is the MIC INPUT used as the interstage transformer?
5. What are the extra 'trano' PCB's for on the the control board PCB's, they have no solder sides?
6. RE both the PSU and 2N3055 Heatsinks, does one need to use a mica insulator on either or both?
7. I know that is was answered a few posts back, but RV1, the 5K trimmer, I can't find the part number used on the BOM, so will use a standard trimmer, but there seems to be an arrow pointing to the 3 on the PCB silkscreen, what is this for/indicate?

Thanks in advance!

Regards

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 06, 2009, 07:41:32 AM
Quote
1. I'm struggling to find a 310R resistor for the COM-MKUP stage, I assume a 300R will be fine?
Yes, 300r will be fine.
Quote
2. R41 on the PCB shows 1K5, though the BOM shows 1K2, which is correct?
R41 is output transformer's load. It can be in range 620R...2k, I used to use 1k2. 1k5 will work fine as 1k etc.

Quote
3. How are you guys testing your 4153 diodes for matching? Igor recommends they are matched, just wondering how you are doing so?
By measuring Vf with multimeter, diode mode, don't touch the diodes with fingers (Vf changes from temperature).

Quote
4. RE transformers, I'm using the Carnhill replacements for the old Marinairs, I assume T1 is the LINE INPUT and T2 is the MIC INPUT used as the interstage transformer?
Yap :)

Quote
5. What are the extra 'trano' PCB's for on the the control board PCB's, they have no solder sides?
Put this under transformers to avoid shorts if trafo's fitted on PCB.

Quote
6. RE both the PSU and 2N3055 Heatsinks, does one need to use a mica insulator on either or both?
Nope, no need for mica/insulator.

7. I know that is was answered a few posts back, but RV1, the 5K trimmer, I can't find the part number used on the BOM, so will use a standard trimmer, but there seems to be an arrow pointing to the 3 on the PCB silkscreen, what is this for/indicate?

Standard 10 or 20 turns trimmer, 5k, Bourns etc. Hmmm....arrow came from Eagle standard package. Dunno... :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on October 06, 2009, 09:17:36 AM
While we're on the subject of that sort of thing...
There's a few 80uf caps on the board but not on the BOM, I assume it's cool to use 100uf here.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on October 06, 2009, 09:39:30 AM

Quote
4. RE transformers, I'm using the Carnhill replacements for the old Marinairs, I assume T1 is the LINE INPUT and T2 is the MIC INPUT used as the interstage transformer?
Yap :)


you can actually swap the traines, it doesnt harm the circuit... you get different gain structure, much harder to calibrate ... i am using one mono unit like that, with extra ba283 board on the input for more drive...  especially on low level signals it blows ur mind away ...
try on your own risk tho....

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pirate on October 06, 2009, 10:35:21 AM
I feel like this is going to be obvious, but i can not sort out the stereo/dual mono switch. I have no idea where those controls are on the PCBs. Otherwise, things are looking up! i am testing the audio tonite! This discussion has been very helpful!

Cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on October 06, 2009, 10:38:29 AM
can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono

EDIT : hope you matched your diodes an both units...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pirate on October 06, 2009, 11:00:56 AM
In case you are wondering, i do feel like an idiot. ha!

THANK YOU!

Cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on October 06, 2009, 11:14:53 AM
dont be silly :)  i wasnt wondering at all...

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pirate on October 06, 2009, 11:39:45 AM
ZING!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on October 06, 2009, 12:43:44 PM
Igor,

Thank you VERY much for all the info, no doubt it may prove useful to others who are providing their own parts rather than using the kit option  ;D

VERY clever on the trano standoff's, I must say it is VERY clear now, but I scratched my head a bit at first  :P

RIGHT! RE transformers. I have mounted the standoff PCB and was just about to solder them and it dawned on me that one can VERY easily screw things up but fitting the transformers the WRONG way round on the board as if you flip the tranos, at least the Carnhill/Marinairs you can quickly reverse the windings around  :o

I threw this drawing together from the Carnhill application guide that Colin has on his website that may prove useful to others as desoldering these tranos from a DS board would be a nightmare!

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/Carnhill_Tranos.gif)

The drawing doesn't indicate the primary vs secondary windings but is it safe to assume the 2+4 and 3+5 windings are the PRIMARIES? Can anyone confirm?

Here is the Marinair one as a reference:

(http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/neveinfo/DSCF1997.JPG)

Likewise looking at the PCB here:

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254C_PCB_.gif)

It seems T1, in this case the LINE INPUT, or VTB9046/10468 goes in with the PRIMARY facing the RIGHT TOWARDS the 2N3055, correct?

It also seems T2, in this case the MICROPHONE INPUT, or VTB9045/31267 goes in with the PRIMARY facing the LEFT AWAY from the 2N3055, correct?

I know these seems like silly questions/statements, but I know that someone, somewhere WILL make this mistake and so posting it here in the open helps future builders.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on October 06, 2009, 01:04:41 PM
its very confusing to indicate tranie directions via tranies facing side...
pin numbers are clearly marked at the bottom of the tranies... its better of use them as reference point.

if you solder carnhills to pcb you will need 2u unit for mono, as they are pretty tall...

its very easy to get confused with tranies... and if you make mistake it will be pain to de-solder them...
i would use molex connection provided, they are clearly marked, if you make mistake, very easy to recover...
molex connection instruction for transformers are covered earlier in the theread...



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on October 06, 2009, 01:14:01 PM
its very confusing to indicate tranie directions via tranies facing side...
pin numbers are clearly marked at the bottom of the tranies... its better of use them as reference point.

if you solder carnhills to pcb you will need 2u unit for mono, as they are pretty tall...

its very easy to get confused with tranies... and if you make mistake it will be pain to de-solder them...
i would use molex connection provided, they are clearly marked, if you make mistake, very easy to recover...
molex connection instruction for transformers are covered earlier in the theread...

Hi Kambo,

All good points, but in the case of a 2U rack it makes sense to mount them onboard as it safer in that they cannot break off/move around and if we know for a fact the pinouts displayed here are correct then it will be easier for other builders in future.

RE the sides, I indicated PRIMARY sides in both cases, but it makes the assumption that PIN 2+4 & 3+5 are indeed the PRIMARIES (awaiting confirmation from anyone in the know).

Cheers

Matt

EDIT: Using my multimeter set to DC resistance I get the following on a VTB9046

Pin 2+4 = 180.4R
Pin 3+5 = 180.4R
Pin 7+9 = 62.4R
Pin 8+10 = 62.4R

Safe to assume Pin2+4 and 3+5 are the PRIMARIES?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on October 06, 2009, 01:28:27 PM
2-4-3-5- are primaries yes....


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on October 28, 2009, 04:16:48 PM
Hi
     what is the power transformer rating(2ch.)? Also, I'm about to start design for the front panel and looking at Igor's front panel I've noticed that Lorlins stop at position 11? They don't go all 12 steps?

Thank you
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 29, 2009, 11:23:08 AM
Power trafo rating is 25-30 VA. This was already discussed on this thread :)
Lorlins are stoped at 11. If you need Corel file to to adapt it to your own design,
please pm.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: syn on October 29, 2009, 11:42:29 AM
Thanks Igor. I've must overlooked it somehow, two times, as I re-read the whole thread today , again ;)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 02, 2009, 12:12:27 PM
Hi Guys

Can someone advise on how to link the two compressors together for stereo bus mode ?
There is a Link pad on the main board which looks to goto Front Panel (from circuit diagram)
I'm trying to understand where the link switch on front panel comes into play and what connections to make ?

Many Thanks
John
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 02, 2009, 12:52:05 PM
John, just go back to page 12 :)

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg438089#msg438089
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 02, 2009, 01:21:58 PM
wow...missed that post thx   :o

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on December 05, 2009, 11:23:23 AM
just to clear this thing for me...
the only 2x6 lorlins are for com_recov and hpf, all others are 1x12. right?
and R´19 on the com_mkup should be left free?
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 05, 2009, 12:19:40 PM
yes to all...
(r'19 is actually parallel to m-up connection)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on December 06, 2009, 12:14:03 PM
Hey thanks Pete I hadn't done those yet!

What a twat. Easy miss.

The square flat caps are the very same, 47uF solid tants.

-T

and the red marked side with the longer leg is + ? never seen that one before...
also i got 2 x 1000uF/25V radials left. C4?
and 2 x 330uF/25V radials. C´´17?
thanks, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: RightOnMusic on December 06, 2009, 12:16:15 PM
hey alex, i had a number of random caps left over as well.  i wouldn't sweat it.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 06, 2009, 01:04:16 PM
and the red marked side with the longer leg is + ? never seen that one before...
also i got 2 x 1000uF/25V radials left. C4?
and 2 x 330uF/25V radials. C´´17?
thanks, alex


for 330uf and 1000uf yes, use them as you quoted ...
for tant... i have no idea, i used normal tant :) but your suggestion sounds right

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on December 06, 2009, 01:09:49 PM
thanks kam...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 09, 2009, 08:29:58 AM
Has anyone found a bezel of any sort for the meters Igor suggested?  I am having a hell of a time cutting a decent hole for them.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 10, 2009, 09:45:49 AM
ST7 VU's doe not have a bezels (AFAIK).
Can just suggest Front Pannel Designer's or Purusha case.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 14, 2009, 11:27:51 AM
Hi Guys

Finally got to the point of powering up and start testing (after all this time!)

I inject 0db signal but I cant control the unity gain setting via the gain trim pot. In Bypass of course its fine but when engaged the gain trim pot is having no control at all.
I get a signal thats in phase but reduced in amplitude on scope by approx 50% (measured at XLR Out). Adjusting gain pot does nothing to the output

I'm kind of following the 33609 setup procedure and the few setup precedures that are on this thread, but before i go diving in wondered if anyone can offer any advice ?

cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 14, 2009, 01:21:57 PM
check your wiring again.... and ur components.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 14, 2009, 01:52:00 PM
check your wiring again.... and ur components.



Ok...well i'm pretty confident on my components!
Measured every measurable before soldering etc.
Wiring is a possibility, i'll double check given molex pin insertion without correct tooling can be problematic

Do you happen to have any useful measurement's i can use to try and figure out where things are going wrong ?
something like "with a 0.775mv 1Khz input signal, observe xxx at point yyy" etc ?

Many thanks
John
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 14, 2009, 04:42:59 PM
i certainly can do a DC chart for you later today...
give me some 4-5 hours, busy doing some work right now...



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 14, 2009, 09:17:17 PM
its 1.5mb jpeg... photobucket.com making it smaller file size, and my DC readings  cant be read...

sent to
[email protected] too

readings : ref to ground, at no compression

http://www.yousendit.com/download/MVNkMFhqTSsxUURIRGc9PQ
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 15, 2009, 03:34:56 AM
Thanks Kambo!

I'll use this as a reference point to help me debug

Regards
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 15, 2009, 10:55:15 AM

Ok here are my results from voltage checks

VCA
TR17
   D 17.18
   G 0.270
   S 3.676
TR16
   D 17.17
   G 0.270
   S 4.864
TR4
   B 17.18
   C 3.676
   E 17.83
TR3
   B 17.17
   C 4.864
   E 17.83

B183.112
TR"4
   B 2.523
   C 3.965
   E 1.964

TR"5
   B 3.964
   C 13.21
   E 3.353

TR"6
   B 13.21
   C 21.93
   E 12.58

B183.110

TR"1
   B 0.940
   C 3.009
   E 0.367

TR"2
   B 3.004
   C 23.19
   E 2.444

TR"3
   B 2.442
   C 23.19
   E 1.915

33609 COMP SIDECHAIN
TR2
   B 3.654
   C 0.523
   E 4.320

TR15
   B 0.523
   C 14.68
   E 0

TR5
   B 23.51
   C 0.749
   E 23.83

TR8
   B 0.748
   C 24.08
   E 2.053

TR9
   B 2.09
   C 23.54
   E 1.48

TR1
   B 23.54
   C 1.586
   E 24.08

TR14
   B 0.790
   C 24.08
   E 1.55

Tran1 - is Carnhill VTB9046
Tran2 - is Carnhill VTB9045
Output - is Carnhill VTB9049

Any thoughts ?

thanks again
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 15, 2009, 12:08:49 PM
its hard to guess from your readings... go through Igors  signal structure post;

Signal structure is: 0db input-> -6db after input trafo-> -31db approx. after input pad (diode bridge can't handle line level),
then, current buffers (same level), interstage trafo-> -25dB. Signal comes balanced to bridge compressor,
and output amp is unbalanced. Audio comes out of phase, CV in common phase. Besides buffers are ac-coupled to transformer,
there's still CV swing which we have to distract from audio...transformer take care about this.
Interstage converts balanced signal to unbalanced, and matching impedances as well.


double checked for polarization on caps and diodes?


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 15, 2009, 06:15:18 PM
Ok I admit it....I'm an idiot  :D

Of course what I was doing wrong was that I failed to remember that the output is balanced and was only measuring pin-2 to ground.
When I measured across Pin2 & 3 of XLR, all was well

I got to the point of calibrating as per 33609 instructions, not sure if that is correct or Pot numbers (ie RVn) are equiv.
- I set Pot on PSU to give 3v at +CV and -CV on PSU
- Adjust gain pot to get unity gain with unit Bypass In
- I croc clipped +CV from PSU to Link on main board
- Adjust RV2 to get -8db at output XLR
- Adjust Pot on PSU for -20db at output
- Adjust RV3 for 20db on meter
- Put threshold to -2db (1st click)
- Adjust RV5 for -1db at output
- Put Threshold to -20db and measure -16db (ish - slightly less in fact on my unit)

Onto the RHS now

Thanks all
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 18, 2009, 09:31:48 AM
I would set the  trimmer to the middle position before switching on the unit.

yep :) also,
for people without a scope,
keep the V around 1.8V on RV1 trimer-to-ground...


Hi Guys
I've spent the last day or so callibrating as best as I could. I went through this thread again as I could see no mention of what RV1 callibration should be other than this from Kambo (back on page 6 or so)
I can only get about 1V (measured from RHS of R2" (which should be wiper) to ground)
Is there another post somewhere that describes setting up the B183 perhaps ?

In addition, just to be clear,  when we say 0db do we mean 0dbu (0.775) or dbv (1.00) ?


The good news is both sides are working and I callibrated using dbu...no hiss/noise etc and sounds pretty good and I love the Bass sound from this unit. I'm tempted to let my ears do the callibrating but i'd like to know i'm technically close as well  :)

I took the approach of getting unity at 0dbu then feeding in -20dbu and adjusting threshold pot to just react on fluke meter
thx
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 19, 2009, 08:12:04 AM
Ok just for reference for other folk that are new to BA183 / 283

RV1 is used to set DC Bias for headroom. You need to supply a +20dbu signal into unit and adjust RV1.
If using a scope you are supposed to be able to adjust until the distortion of both +ve and -ve amplitude of signal are the same.
I couldnt get this at all on either of my boards.

so what  I did was measure voltage across R7" (47r 1W) to be max of 7V, which should make sure that it doesnt burn out. It certainly is warm now!
Then recallibrate as per my previous post and all seems well
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on December 20, 2009, 12:04:54 PM
Hi Guys

Heres the shots of my 2254C.
Thanks to everyone on this thread whose helped along the way and especially Igor for making the effort in the first place

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_Int_2.JPG)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_Int_1.JPG)

Ignore the TLA unit, its there in the rack :-)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_Rack3.JPG)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_Rack_1.JPG)

(http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/normal_Rack_2.JPG)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on December 20, 2009, 12:07:55 PM
nice one! well done...
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 23, 2009, 08:59:19 PM
Very nice. But.... IMHO it is way wrong to compare 2254C to other unit with same colored front pannel :)
Anyway, Behr*her is the sonic perf. winner :)
/lol/
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on December 24, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
looks great!

how's it sound?

if you get a chance to do some sound samples - lets hear it!

cheers,
haima
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on December 24, 2009, 03:47:47 AM
fantastic! ;D

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 24, 2009, 06:30:55 PM
good gravy, I finally tried to fire mine up tonight and I got nothing, nothing at all.  Voltages seem ok, but nothing in bypass no sound no way.  I'll go over all the wiring and parts placement, but man am I depressed now. 

I feel like there's something big I'm not getting, what is CV?  What is CCV?  I see those points on the power supply and reading through the thread I've picked up that I should alligator clip them to the control board for testing, but do they play a part in normal operation?

Looking at the schematic I'm pretty confused, mostly by the relays.  It's a new concept to me and I don't understand their function, I figured I didn't have to since there was only one way to put them on the board.

If some one could explain those things to me that might be a start, other wise I'll keep digging and asking til we hit on something.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 24, 2009, 09:53:41 PM
ur unit should pass audio even without any power...
relays are set to be in bypass mode when power is off, or bypass engaged...
relays routes audio to the circuit only when comp engaged...
you should hear some very very low switching noise from relays when you in/out your unit.
that tiny switching noise is more noticeable if you turn off your unit, while ur unit is engaged to compress (red led's are on)

ccv counterclockwise
cv clockwise

those connections with alligators are only for calibration purposes...

EDIT : that switching noise i am talking about from relays are mechanical noise not click etc kind of noise.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 24, 2009, 10:55:38 PM
interesting...  I'll spend some time with it tomorrow, thanks for the tip about passing audio regardless of power.  I really think I've overlooked something hugely obvious.  Sadly, my camera is pretty junky but I'll see if I can get some decent pics going.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 26, 2009, 09:47:33 AM
Ok, so I spoke a little too soon.  I had the 2254 set up on an insert on my mixer (which I've done with all my other builds) and was getting complete silence, when I went directly from a mic pre to the compressor voila! 

I noticed this on the 33609 page...
Quote
Errata: If you look at the signal output, on the right of the pic called "33609_SCHEM_VOLT.jpg", the numbers differs from the PCB.

1 HI
2 GND
3 LOW

THIS IS CORRECT...

I'm not sure what that means, or if it has anything to do with the 2254 boards, but my wiring from the main board is...

1 ground (pin1 on xlr)
2 + (pin2 on xlr)
3 - (pin3 on xlr)

seems pretty straight forward, but I don't want to assume anything, plus the complete silence on the insert really makes me think something was shorting to ground.

now I just need to sort out that test procedure...

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 26, 2009, 10:32:13 AM
pin2 on pcb molex is ground... get use to Igor's connections :)


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 26, 2009, 11:24:38 AM
Thank you, just to set the record straight that would mean pad1 on pcb is xlr pin 2 and pad 3 is xlr pin 3, right?

More importantly how did everyone else know this?  I like to know why I make a mistake.

and by the way, Kambo, I vote you MVP on this project.  Cheers!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 26, 2009, 12:37:51 PM
thats correct re molex...
if anything you are not sure, you can always check your PCB vs schematic... and do some quick continuity test with your multimeter etc...
that what i do...

thanks for the vote :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bdubya on December 26, 2009, 01:38:58 PM
Most gear is pin2 (+) nowadays, which is probably what folks are going off of.  That leaves pin1 as ground and pin 3 as (-).  So, with that knowledge of the "standard" in hand, you can proceed with connected the (+), (-) and grnd pads to whatever you need.  If, for some reason, you're running a pin3 hot system, you would hook pin 3 as + and pin 2 as - .    Sorry if you already knew all that, but I thought that it might have been the unmentioned standard that you may have missed.  Congrats on the build!

ben
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 26, 2009, 05:15:26 PM
Thanks bd, I wrongly assumed that pad1 on the pcb meant pin1 on the xlr and so forth.  Looking back at the schematic now, I can see how it's labeled.  So I switched around my wires and did some calibration and things are sounding pretty nice.  I still need a proper scale for the meters and need to drill a bunch of holes in metal but I'm nearing the finish line.  The low end on this thing is bananas, big giant bananas!



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 27, 2009, 02:18:39 PM
Cool. If you need Corel front pannel drawing (easy can be converted to .plt's to use with Front Pannel Designer)
and meter's scale, just PM me with request and your mail address.

@Kam: Thanx!!! You're fast as lighting! BTW, what is MVP?

HNY to all you, folks!

:)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 27, 2009, 02:21:17 PM
BTW, thanx to Jplum, very fast and easy calibration procedure:

Pot nR's are equiv. to 33609

Feed 0dbV or 1V RMS 1 kHz measured between pins 2 and 3 on input XLR with AC voltmeter;

Disconnect THR Molex connector from mother board

Quote
- I set Pot on PSU to give 3v at +CV and -CV on PSU
- Adjust gain pot to get unity gain with unit Bypass In
- I croc clipped +CV from PSU to Link on main board
- Adjust RV2 to get -8db at output XLR
- Adjust Pot on PSU for -20db at output
- Adjust RV3 for 20db on meter

Connect THR Molex connector on mother board

Quote
- Put threshold to -2db (1st click)
- Adjust RV5 for -1db at output
- Put Threshold to -20db and measure -16db (ish - slightly less in fact on my unit)

Yap.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 27, 2009, 02:47:11 PM

@Kam: Thanx!!! You're fast as lighting! BTW, what is MVP?

HNY to all you, folks!

:)


hehe :)
MVP : i suppose Most Valuable Person  ;D
i might be totally wrong tho...

happy new year to you all....

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 27, 2009, 04:21:21 PM
Just want to thank you and all folks, who built their 2254 and help other peoiple, for invaluable support, again.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on December 27, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
Quote
BTW, what is MVP?

Most Valuable Player, it's an award in baseball.

Igor, I got the scale and layout docs from you yesterday.  I drilled my front panel today, some things got a little wacky so my layout will be a little different than most folks but I'm comfortable with that.  I made a pretty cool jig for cutting the meter holes, I'll post some pics once I get it all buttoned up. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 27, 2009, 06:30:35 PM
When you printing from Corel, it is important to know the scale is correct.
You can print 100x100 mm rectangle and check the measures.
Or, when converting to HPGL etc, sometimes measures comes wrong. For me, 1016 HPGL format works best.

Will be happy to see pictures.

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on December 29, 2009, 12:42:30 PM
i use 60/40, or whatever i grab... just start soldering :)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 04, 2010, 09:26:48 PM

all buttoned up and calibrated...

(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh118/nateflanigan/IMG_1062.jpg)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh118/nateflanigan/IMG_1061.jpg)

here's some pics of my jig for cutting meter holes...

(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh118/nateflanigan/IMG_1043-1.jpg)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh118/nateflanigan/IMG_1044.jpg)

I used a Rigid laminate trimmer with a freud "all carbide bit" from home depot.  It cut very nicely, now if I could just build a decent digital camera.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 04, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
congrats...
nice and foggy :)

whats the purpose of those uncountable number of switches ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 04, 2010, 10:13:58 PM
it's all the normal controls, I made some weird assumptions about where I should place the meters so I had to compensate and move the switches around.

Soldering switches directly to boards makes me really paranoid, I never seem to get all my holes exactly right.  I'm getting a lot better at metal work but I still like to give myself some wiggle room. 

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 05, 2010, 12:24:56 AM
it was hard to figure out through the fog ;D
i like the way you laid out your vu meters.... maybe smaller switches in future!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on January 05, 2010, 04:39:56 AM

all buttoned up and calibrated...


nice one substitute! i also like to arrange my main pcbs next to each other instead above. i saw you placed the mains torodial outside the case!?
is this the better way or can i proceed as planned in the picture below?
happy new year! cheers, alex

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254cprogresssmall.jpg)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 05, 2010, 08:03:24 AM
Quote
i saw you placed the mains torodial outside the case!?
is this the better way or can i proceed as planned in the picture below?

I didn't use a torroid, just a regular transformer.  It's shielded, but i wanted be sure, so I mounted it outside the chassis.  That, and I ran out of room in the case.  I've never had a problem with a torroid in a case.

Quote
maybe smaller switches in future!

That, or I could just get my act together and start measuring correctly.   :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on January 05, 2010, 08:13:52 AM
@substitute: it was possible to acquire from me .cdr file with front pannel design or drill template in .jpg :)
This way it was possible to keep everything lined up nicely at the front pannel. Anyway. I like this DIY look! :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 05, 2010, 08:36:32 AM
yeah, I know, I got the template from you but I had already cut the meter cut outs.  The right hand side of channel two slightly hangs over the back of the meters, so the switches wouldn't fit on the board.  I didn't want to start over so i thought I'd see if I could make it work. 

I want my projects to look kind of hand made, not like stuffed in a shoe box with a bunch of electrical tape, but not like they came from guitar center either.

I also have an aversion to words, lights, and (I'm getting over it) meters...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 06:07:02 AM
Success, well kind of!

I finally finished up the 5 x 2254c boards last night, just ahead of power up I had fun matching the diodes and setting out to wire up:

(http://www.ashtonaudio.com/goodies/2254c/2254c_diodes.jpg)

I then wired up my single channel unit to test all the main boards in as it was easier to troubleshoot.

(http://www.ashtonaudio.com/goodies/2254c/2254c_sans_wiring.jpg)

Now the completed wiring, awaiting testing (will neaten it up more when I have calibrated them and am ready to close the cases). I powered them each up, no smoke, passing audio, half the battle won!

(http://www.ashtonaudio.com/goodies/2254c/2254c_guts.jpg)

And a nice close up of the front panel.

(http://www.ashtonaudio.com/goodies/2254c/2254c_front.jpg)

The problem is a LOUD hum, which I think has to do with my grounding scheme, in BYPASS the comp is as clean as a whistle, when engaged there is a loud hum, the controls all work as they should and it passes audio fine, but passes the annoying hum as well.

I'm thinking it either power supply or wiring related as it happens on all 5 boards, it could be control board related as I used the same board for testing each unit.

I've made a minute sample here, starts off with the said hum, then some audio that I mucked about with with the various controls and at the end you can hear the hum disappear as switch between bypass and engage.

2254C Audio Sample (5MB) (http://"http://www.ashtonaudio.com/goodies/2254c/2254C_Hum.wav")

My grounding scheme is as follows:

IEC ground to Chassis
From that ground point I ran a wire to the solder pad on the 2254C PSU, which is linked the CHASSIS ground tab on the PCB
From the I followed the convention of the dual grounds to the main board, with the +24V and the CHASSIS ground.

Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 20, 2010, 06:23:23 AM
have you grounded your output trx properly ?
bypass is via relays, natural to have no noise, but clean audio

just remembered, your main board may not be grounded properly either, i had that problem... run a crocodile lead and test...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 06:34:04 AM

Hey Kam,

But properly you mean they have continuity with the chassis? If so, yes.

I suspect if my wiring IS correct then it might be noise from the power supply... the 2x12V trano I'm using it only putting out around 25VAC underload, but putting out 24VDC, but I think the voltage potential needs to be a min of 2+ Volts above regulated voltage? Will see if I can find another power trafo and test that...

Cheers

Matt

have you grounded your output trx properly ?
bypass is via relays, natural to have no noise, but clean audio
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 20, 2010, 06:48:25 AM
disconnect your controller boards... as far as i remember it works without them fine.
 
to double check your grounding:
grab some crocodile cables, and make a star ground connection externally from your main pcb + output trx + chase + PSU

is your power trx getting too hot ?
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 07:01:57 AM
Hey Kam,

No, not getting hot at all, cool to the touch, also just tried a different trano and it seems the output is also around 25VAC when you join the 2 x 12VAC windings.

I disconnected the controller board, expect the BYPASS/MTR because that is needed to engage the comp, but removed all other connections. You are right, it passes audio, but the hum persists, which means that it isn't the control boards.

I have NO continuity between the AUDIO grounds and the CHASSIS grounds, is that correct? Seems there should be?

I DO have continuity between the PSU Chassis Ground, Chassis, XLR's shells and Pin 1 on the XLR's and Output transformer mounting bracket.

Thanks for troubleshooting this with me, much appreciated!

Cheers

Matt

disconnect your controller boards... as far as i remember it works without them fine.
 
to double check your grounding:
grab some crocodile cables, and make a star ground connection externally from your main pcb + output trx + chase + PSU

is your power trx getting too hot ?
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 20, 2010, 07:14:16 AM
i had that similar hum ( just managed to listen to your wav )

i have had linked a cable to ground from OP_MTR pin 2 molex connection (i had plastic stand offs at my first build)
OP_MTR moles is next to your PWR molex on main pcb.

so, as from the schematic, it looks like audio ground ?

check pin 2 to make sure its ground, before you make connection, i dont want you to blow ur build...
you can see that connection on my build picture, back in some 3-4 pages...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 07:39:38 AM
Kam,

Genius! That is what I thought, surely their should be continuity between the audio AND chassis grounds, by connecting Pin 2 on the OT out to the Chassis ground you connect the 2 together... and guess what, my comp is now SILENT!

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentions before in this thread, unless I'm just stupid? I'm not sure using CONDUCTIVE stand-offs wouldn't make any difference as the main board stand offs have no connection to ground at all?

Thanks again for the help, hopefully out mistakes will help others.

Cheers

Matt


i had that similar hum ( just managed to listen to your wav )

i have had linked a cable to ground from OP_MTR pin 2 molex connection (i had plastic stand offs at my first build)
OP_MTR moles is next to your PWR molex on main pcb.

so, as from the schematic, it looks like audio ground ?

check pin 2 to make sure its ground, before you make connection, i dont want you to blow ur build...
you can see that connection on my build picture, back in some 3-4 pages...

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 20, 2010, 07:56:10 AM
cool, another 2254c ready to rock :)

i figured that stand offs just now too... noticed they are not connected.... funny...
we both might have been missing ground connection somewhere... may be a "link - N/A wire on PCB" somewhere  ::)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 08:22:25 AM

Yeah, it is weird... HMM, just looked over the board and didn' see anything blatant? Any other builders have this issue?

Cheers

Matt

cool, another 2254c ready to rock :)

i figured that stand offs just now too... noticed they are not connected.... funny...
we both might have been missing ground connection somewhere... may be a "link - N/A wire on PCB" somewhere  ::)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 10:49:32 AM

Thanks Alex,

I can't answer the other parts since I didn't build from the kit, but yes, no need for an insulator with TR3, I asked the same question 10+ pages back  :P

Cheers

Matt

i´ve got some wimas left. i assume the...
1500/630- are 1n5 and C´´10 and C23,
0,01/100- is 10n and CZ and
1000//630- is 1n and C´´16?
and TR3 without any isolation directly to heatsink and with the metall standoffs to pcb?
can anybody confirm?
btw, very nice build, matta!
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 20, 2010, 12:43:23 PM
Quote
Any other builders have this issue?

No, but I used metal stand-offs...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 20, 2010, 03:16:21 PM
Metal or plastic makes no difference because the boards are bout grounded though their mounting holes. That cannot be the reason there is a different here... Hmmm.

Matt

Quote
Any other builders have this issue?

No, but I used metal stand-offs...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 20, 2010, 08:48:11 PM
this is freaky  ::)

EDIT : Matt, i think its from PSU board... that pin 2 i told you to connect on main board is actually on same ground_plane as on main PCB, which is
also connected to PWR molex ground.... so when PSU board is not grounded properly to chases then there is a missing grounding link to output trx etc too...
i think that solves the mystery...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 21, 2010, 06:19:56 AM
Hey Kam,

I thought about that too, but it still doesn't make sense... you see, I'm using plastic stand offs, BUT I took this into account and on the PSU board I have a separate ground wire running from the provided solder pad that is LINKED to the PSU mounting holes i.e CHASSIS GROUND and I took that to my ground point as the IEC inlet, and have continuity between all the chassis grounds... the AUDIO GROUNDS and CHASSIS GROUNDS are not connected at the PSU that I can see, we have done it ourseleves by taking the AUDIO GROUND of PIN2 of the O/T Meter to the CHASSIS GROUND at the Output Transformer... Igor? Any thoughts?

Cheers

Matt

EDIT: Found it, the MIDDLE stand off hole on the PSU is AUDIO GROUND, the other 4 are CHASSIS GROUND, very sneaky... ok folks, be warned, you will need at least 2 conductive standoffs, one for the center post and one for one of the corner holes, by doing it at the PSU you tie the AUDIO & CHASSIS grounds together!

this is freaky  ::)

EDIT : Matt, i think its from PSU board... that pin 2 i told you to connect on main board is actually on same ground_plane as on main PCB, which is
also connected to PWR molex ground.... so when PSU board is not grounded properly to chases then there is a missing grounding link to output trx etc too...
i think that solves the mystery...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 22, 2010, 02:14:02 AM
very sneaky...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on January 25, 2010, 10:28:52 AM
Hi all.  I'm finally getting around to stuffing my boards, and had a couple questions so far that I couldn't find answers to in this thread.

- On the switch boards there are a few extra holes: Makeup next to the 27 Ohm; threshold next to the 680 Ohm; attack next to the 5K6 Ohm.  Anyone know what these are for?  Since the boards are black, it's hard to trace where these go.

- Makeup gain resistors 51 & 33 Ohm seem to touch (solder bridge) as well as 310 Ohm & 180 Ohm.  Is this intentional?  My eyes are bad :P

- Also R'11 & R'12 connect also, as does R'12 & R'13 - is this right or am I a slob?  They don't seem to share a pad, but they're REALLY close.

Thanks!



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 25, 2010, 10:54:46 AM
  My eyes are bad :P


how about a magnifying glass to start with  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 26, 2010, 04:29:13 AM

Hey Guys,

I've wired up the 2nd unit and looking to start calibrating, will set RV1 first for the DC level/Headroom for the BA183/283 first... then onto this:

Ok I admit it....I'm an idiot  :D

Of course what I was doing wrong was that I failed to remember that the output is balanced and was only measuring pin-2 to ground.
When I measured across Pin2 & 3 of XLR, all was well

I got to the point of calibrating as per 33609 instructions, not sure if that is correct or Pot numbers (ie RVn) are equiv.
- I set Pot on PSU to give 3v at +CV and -CV on PSU
- Adjust gain pot to get unity gain with unit Bypass In
- I croc clipped +CV from PSU to Link on main board
- Adjust RV2 to get -8db at output XLR
- Adjust Pot on PSU for -20db at output
- Adjust RV3 for 20db on meter
- Put threshold to -2db (1st click)
- Adjust RV5 for -1db at output
- Put Threshold to -20db and measure -16db (ish - slightly less in fact on my unit)

Onto the RHS now

Thanks all

I've got to admit I'm a little confused though... the input signal comes from the CV from the PSU correct? Measured at 3V croc clipped to the LINK on the PCB, but then I'm confused, how are you measuring -8dB at the XLR and -20dB on the Output? From the VU/DC meter or on your multimeter? And is so what are those values in real world terms?

Sorry for the seemingly stupid question, level always just freak the heck out of me and I STILL, 5 years in, can't seem to get them right.

I also assume all these tests are done WITH the control boards attached to the main board?

Thanks in advance!

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 05:00:25 AM
control boards are attached, as you need to set some atack, release, thrshold levels...
CV from PSU yes, small chip on side for test DC, with trimpot...
reading -8db, -20db are from DMM...
set DC on PSU, connect to link..  reading -8db on output XLR pin 2-3....make adjustment....
connect DMM to XLR pin 2-3 and adjust trimpot on PSU to read -20db on your DMM...  make adjustment...

it seems confusing, i admit, read 33609 full calibration sheet, it will give you clear idea ...

EDIT :
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm

0.775V ( RMS ) = 0 dbu

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 26, 2010, 05:11:37 AM
Thanks Kam,

Yes that calculator is most useful! That was the missing link for me... converting dB's to a DMM reading. Reading Jplum's calibration procedure it make sno mention of setting on the control panel, hmm... need to hunt down the 33609 cal procedure then. Thanks again!

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 05:14:59 AM
attack 8'clock
release CCV
ratio 1:2
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on January 26, 2010, 05:53:35 AM
attack 8'clock
release CCV
ratio 1:2


Dont forget to read the DC Bias post (2 pages back i think)

I think I had the attach Full Clockwise (Fast)
ratio 1:2
Recovery CCV
Threshold CV
Gain CCV
HPF & +10 both in Off position

Yes, all the db measurements were done on Fluke Meter using calculator as reference info!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 06:16:55 AM
fast attack is CCV
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 26, 2010, 08:32:34 AM
cool thanks!  Now I can go back and re-calibrate mine.  I did it with meter plugins in logic and the results were a little screwy, I've never understood the vdc/db relationship either. 

Kambo, I believe some where in this thread you mention something to the effect of being a beginner, yet I would say "you've been dropping science like Cosby droppin babies"!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 26, 2010, 08:49:30 AM

Hey jplum,

Yup read that, and also think yours may be a little high... just spoke to PeterC who has worked on a bunch of Neve modules and feels that a safer bet it 100mA of current, which across the 47R resistor would be 4.7VDC.

Also like you I tried it with my scope and saw little to no difference when using my scope... interestingly enough my Pro Tools 002R output can't put out a CLEAN +20dBu signal, it will only do about +18dBu and by then it is bordering on a square wave... interesting...

Cheers

Matt

attack 8'clock
release CCV
ratio 1:2


Dont forget to read the DC Bias post (2 pages back i think)

I think I had the attach Full Clockwise (Fast)
ratio 1:2
Recovery CCV
Threshold CV
Gain CCV
HPF & +10 both in Off position

Yes, all the db measurements were done on Fluke Meter using calculator as reference info!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 09:01:49 AM
Kambo, I believe some where in this thread you mention something to the effect of being a beginner, yet I would say "you've been dropping science like Cosby droppin babies"!
;D
i am seriously a beginner, just a quick learner, and math/ engineering background...

Also like you I tried it with my scope and saw little to no difference when using my scope... interestingly enough my Pro Tools 002R output can't put out a CLEAN +20dBu signal, it will only do about +18dBu and by then it is bordering on a square wave... interesting...
add a ba283 or something...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 26, 2010, 09:44:07 AM

Quote
Adjust gain pot to get unity gain with unit Bypass In

Also, I'm WAY confused on the using the onboard GAIN trimmer to get unity gain in 'bypass', surely in bypass the audio goes straight from the IN to OUT without passing through the circuit, in which case you won't know if you are adding gain or now, and in bypass the controls are bypassed? To set the GAIN trimmer should you not set the Make-up Gain knob to 0, Threshold to zero and then toggle between 'bypass' and 'compression' and then match the levels there?

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 09:51:00 AM

Quote
Adjust gain pot to get unity gain with unit Bypass In

Also, I'm WAY confused on the using the onboard GAIN trimmer to get unity gain in 'bypass', surely in bypass the audio goes straight from the IN to OUT without passing through the circuit, in which case you won't know if you are adding gain or now, and in bypass the controls are bypassed? To set the GAIN trimmer should you not set the Make-up Gain knob to 0, Threshold to zero and then toggle between 'bypass' and 'compression' and then match the levels there?

Cheers

Matt


attack 8o'clock,
release CCV
ratio 1:2
makeup 0
thrshold CV, +10 switch at 0 position...
red bypass led  on, unit passes audio through comp circuit

feed 1khz 0.775v 0dbu

adjust gain trimpot until you read 0.775 v 0dbu at output
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on January 26, 2010, 10:12:08 AM
Thanks Kam,

That is what I thought, the confusing part is 'Bypass In', it sounds counterproductive and confusing, an oxymoron... either the unit is 'bypassed' or 'compressing', so it makes more sense to say 'switch the compresser in', rather than 'switch the bypass out', though both have the same results  ;D

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 26, 2010, 10:14:22 AM
i totally agree  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on January 27, 2010, 01:59:24 PM
  My eyes are bad :P


how about a magnifying glass to start with  ;)

That was helpful - thanks for that.

Does anyone have anything useful to add that might address my other questions having nothing to do with my eyesight?  Are these solder pads supposed to touch, and what are the extra little holes for?

Quote
- On the switch boards there are a few extra holes: Makeup next to the 27 Ohm; threshold next to the 680 Ohm; attack next to the 5K6 Ohm.  Anyone know what these are for?  Since the boards are black, it's hard to trace where these go.

- Makeup gain resistors 51 & 33 Ohm seem to touch (solder bridge) as well as 310 Ohm & 180 Ohm.  Is this intentional?

- Also R'11 & R'12 seem to connect also, as does R'12 & R'13 - is this right?  They don't seem to share a pad, but they're REALLY close.

Thanks


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 27, 2010, 02:19:00 PM
yes they share pads, if you look at the other side of the pcb you will see...

if you send a jpeg etc with marks, where 5k6 etc wholes are, then i can help,
my eye sight is worst than urs  ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jplum on January 27, 2010, 04:08:35 PM

Hey jplum,

Yup read that, and also think yours may be a little high... just spoke to PeterC who has worked on a bunch of Neve modules and feels that a safer bet it 100mA of current, which across the 47R resistor would be 4.7VDC.

Also like you I tried it with my scope and saw little to no difference when using my scope... interestingly enough my Pro Tools 002R output can't put out a CLEAN +20dBu signal, it will only do about +18dBu and by then it is bordering on a square wave... interesting...

Cheers

Matt

attack 8'clock
release CCV
ratio 1:2


Dont forget to read the DC Bias post (2 pages back i think)

I think I had the attach Full Clockwise (Fast)
ratio 1:2
Recovery CCV
Threshold CV
Gain CCV
HPF & +10 both in Off position

Yes, all the db measurements were done on Fluke Meter using calculator as reference info!

Thanks for the tip on DC Bias. Right now i've not seen anything bad so i'll carry on for now but i'll maybe back off bias next time i'm inside.

fwiw, I used a ferranti signal generator @ 1khz as my signal source
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on January 27, 2010, 11:30:19 PM
Quote
Does anyone have anything useful to add that might address my other questions having nothing to do with my eyesight?  Are these solder pads supposed to touch, and what are the extra little holes for?

Quote
- On the switch boards there are a few extra holes: Makeup next to the 27 Ohm; threshold next to the 680 Ohm; attack next to the 5K6 Ohm.  Anyone know what these are for?  Since the boards are black, it's hard to trace where these go.

- Makeup gain resistors 51 & 33 Ohm seem to touch (solder bridge) as well as 310 Ohm & 180 Ohm.  Is this intentional?

- Also R'11 & R'12 seem to connect also, as does R'12 & R'13 - is this right?  They don't seem to share a pad, but they're REALLY close.

Thanks


I don't know what the deal is with those little extra holes, I ignored them and all is well. 

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on January 29, 2010, 04:09:58 AM
yes they share pads, if you look at the other side of the pcb you will see...

if you send a jpeg etc with marks, where 5k6 etc wholes are, then i can help,
my eye sight is worst than urs  ;D


Thanks.  Here's a markup of what I was referring to - the extra holes are in red, and the pads that look like they're touching are in blue:

(http://www.scottgreiner.com/Igor_pcb_fp.jpg)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on January 29, 2010, 04:31:58 AM
nothing to worry about them....
wholes are just extras from copy/paste on pcb design,
solder pads are shared,  look at the other side of the pcb...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 03, 2010, 05:20:17 PM
Hey guys,

Just to say, you may all have worked this out, and i built 4 working units already and this still almost got me, and there is probably good reason, but ive forgotten..

if you are using carnhill 9045(inter)/9046(input)

the PCB says for the input tx labelled 1, PRI & SEC, well these are the wrong way round relative to the connection next to it labelled INTR1. the SEC is wired to the PRI of the INTR1 connector.

make sense? as i say maybe there is a reason that i've now forgotten, but thought it was worth mentioning just in case that catches people out..

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Carlos Lima on February 03, 2010, 06:15:01 PM
One question:

Anyone got a substitute to the defunct (obsolete) BC-214C ?

Thanks

Carlos Lima
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 03, 2010, 08:39:41 PM
BC107 or 109 for 184;
BC177 or 179 for 214
Beta (h21e):
A ~100
B~200
C >400
C will fit. B-marginally OK.
http://il.farnell.com/semelab/bc179/transistor-pnp-to-18/dp/1208594
http://il.farnell.com/multicomp/bc109c/transistor-npn-to-18/dp/9206809
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Carlos Lima on February 03, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Carlos Lima on February 03, 2010, 10:36:28 PM
Still having problems to find BC179 "C". After a search into Fairchild database, found this:

BC559B / BC559C

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/BC/BC560.pdf

Looks good. It will take some time for me, but I will try it...

Best,

Carlos Lima
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 03, 2010, 11:09:12 PM
Two quick calibration questions...

Kam says...

Quote

feed 1khz 0.775v 0dbu

adjust gain trimpot until you read 0.775 v 0dbu at output

Igor says...

Feed 0dbV or 1V RMS 1 kHz measured between pins 2 and 3 on input XLR with AC voltmeter

should we be using the dbu or dbv calculator?

Also, there's been a couple posts saying to set the ratio to 1:2 while calibrating.  This doesn't seem to be an available setting based on the silkscreen on igor/puruscha/dan's cases.  What am I missing here?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 04, 2010, 03:50:21 AM

Igor says...

Feed 0dbV or 1V RMS 1 kHz measured between pins 2 and 3 on input XLR with AC voltmeter


where did you read this  ???
i remember reading something like this, but direct link would be great....

on 33609 calibration page its all dbu 0.775V....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 04, 2010, 08:03:11 AM
page 14 (this thread), kind of near the bottom.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 04, 2010, 09:01:57 AM
got it...
its ~2 dbu difference

as for standard calibrating procedure 0.775V is 0 dbu... as in 33609 and others....
and Igor, never said otherwise...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 04, 2010, 03:42:33 PM
That has been the rub I think, not knowing how to convert dBu to Volts AC RMS, the calculator that Kambo posted a few posts back is invaluable! I have 3 of the units I built calibrated and the 'ideal' is to to get 0.123 I think, in the 'matched' pair I did I got 0.116 on one and 0.114 on the other... not bad, and they sound great!

Thanks again for the help Kambo, added some much needed clarity to the build!

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 04, 2010, 07:09:56 PM
Quote
got it...
its ~2 dbu difference

as for standard calibrating procedure 0.775V is 0 dbu... as in 33609 and others....
and Igor, never said otherwise...

yeah, I didn't think it was a real make or brake point. 

Any one have any insights into the ratio question?

Quote
That has been the rub I think, not knowing how to convert dBu to Volts AC RMS, the calculator that Kambo posted a few posts back is invaluable! I have 3 of the units I built calibrated and the 'ideal' is to to get 0.123 I think, in the 'matched' pair I did I got 0.116 on one and 0.114 on the other... not bad, and they sound great!

Thanks again for the help Kambo, added some much needed clarity to the build!

Cheers

I seem to remember you doing a lot of leg work on the s800 project, so cheers all around!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 05, 2010, 04:52:11 AM
ratio CCV is fine,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on February 07, 2010, 07:12:14 AM
finished! ;D

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254c_finweb_5.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254c_finweb_1.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254c_finweb_2.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254c_finweb_3.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/2254c_finweb_4.jpg)

a big THANK YOU to igor, dan (ddt) and frank (frontpanels.de)! and of course to all the other polite and helpful gentlemen in this forum...
cheers, alex

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 07, 2010, 07:15:32 AM
holly sh*t  :o
fantastic build, cheers  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 07, 2010, 07:21:54 AM
No kidding Looks great!  Do you have igor's meter scale?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on February 07, 2010, 10:19:20 AM
beautiful! how does it sound? i'd love to hear some clips (dry / compressed)... thinking about making one of these (even though i have a igor 33609 on the go too... haha)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on February 07, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
beautiful! how does it sound? i'd love to hear some clips (dry / compressed)... thinking about making one of these (even though i have a igor 33609 on the go too... haha)

you shure have to build one. it´s an amazing comp! the hpf is veryvery useful (although i didn´t see the advantage at first). the 2254 seems to react a little smoother (in a good meaning) compared to the 33609. but if you like you can squeeze tracks anyway. different! i love both!
sorry for my poor english/description and thanks for the nice comments. cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 07, 2010, 08:06:04 PM
I'm having some really bizarre issue with my comps.  The short story is they work and sound fantastic, really really over the top fantastic.  Now for the long story...

-My ratio switch is a 12 pos switch, all the front panels I've seen have 5 pos marked, the first 5 positions (from ccw to cw) effect the sound then the remaining positions have no effect.  On the schem its a 12 pos switch with only the first 5 pos connected to anything.

-Similar issue with threshold, fully ccw behaves as expected and as the switch is turned behavior is normal, but after the fifth position the unit stops compressing.  By using the +10 switch, even with the limited range of the controls, I can get the full range of compression from a few dbs to heavy squishing with a 0dbu (0.777v) signal. 

-meters, they don't track exactly the same, in a non uniform way.  What I mean is, adjusting the threshold the needles will go from pretty close, to kind of off, then back then the other way.  It's always generally ok, but just kind of weird.  Also, the scale is very inaccurate, at both of the far ranges (20 & 2) it's pretty right on but in the middle it's off by quite a bit.

-release, on one channel the ccw position causes the compressor to "stick".  It's like it doesn't release at all.  Also, the wacky-ness of the meters really changes with different release times. 

In a way I'm not super concerned since it works, and sounds great but I'd like to see if I can get to the bottom of some of this mumbo jumbo.  I screwed up and didn't match the diodes, but the two channels are very closely calibrated.  On some settings as little as 2/10th of a db difference and sometimes as much as 7/10ths.

let me know what you think.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 07, 2010, 09:35:15 PM
I'm having some really bizarre issue with my comps.  The short story is they work and sound fantastic, really really over the top fantastic.  Now for the long story...

-My ratio switch is a 12 pos switch, all the front panels I've seen have 5 pos marked, the first 5 positions (from ccw to cw) effect the sound then the remaining positions have no effect.  On the schem its a 12 pos switch with only the first 5 pos connected to anything.

-Similar issue with threshold, fully ccw behaves as expected and as the switch is turned behavior is normal, but after the fifth position the unit stops compressing.  By using the +10 switch, even with the limited range of the controls, I can get the full range of compression from a few dbs to heavy squishing with a 0dbu (0.777v) signal.  

-meters, they don't track exactly the same, in a non uniform way.  What I mean is, adjusting the threshold the needles will go from pretty close, to kind of off, then back then the other way.  It's always generally ok, but just kind of weird.  Also, the scale is very inaccurate, at both of the far ranges (20 & 2) it's pretty right on but in the middle it's off by quite a bit.

-release, on one channel the ccw position causes the compressor to "stick".  It's like it doesn't release at all.  Also, the wacky-ness of the meters really changes with different release times.  

In a way I'm not super concerned since it works, and sounds great but I'd like to see if I can get to the bottom of some of this mumbo jumbo.  I screwed up and didn't match the diodes, but the two channels are very closely calibrated.  On some settings as little as 2/10th of a db difference and sometimes as much as 7/10ths.

let me know what you think.


you need to set your lorlin to 5 stop...  its under the big nut... metal ring... take it off, and place it on position
you need to use...
better off match your diodes....
check your resistor values etc on controller board....
my VU's didnt act the same... but it compresses the exact amount...  i re_adjusted one VU, just for visual...
i hardly look at the VUs anyway...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 09, 2010, 01:53:31 PM
hey guys,

another couple here, one finished, one a few knobs yet to get, i love these compressors....all sounding fab!

(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254csif.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254both.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254csifl.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254in.jpg)

cheers!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on February 09, 2010, 02:15:42 PM
awesome!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 09, 2010, 02:47:41 PM
they look sleeping.... ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 09, 2010, 02:48:49 PM
I noticed you skipped the molex connectors, they were really really time consuming to wire up, do feel like hard wiring the control boards had any disadvantages? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how are your meters tracking?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on February 09, 2010, 03:12:52 PM
I noticed you skipped the molex connectors, they were really really time consuming to wire up, do feel like hard wiring the control boards had any disadvantages?

desoldering in case of service...  ;D
and sorry for answering your question, pete!
do you still have any meters left?
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 09, 2010, 05:08:34 PM
I just did Molex on ONE side, on the main PCB, same with PSU, that way you can still remove the various boards if need be without desoldering it all.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 10, 2010, 03:49:30 AM

Yes Matta has the best answer, providing you dont have any problems then great, next time ill do just one side. Luckily I had no problems!

No meters left im afraid Alex,

my meters Track 100% correctly. do you have issues with that then?

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 10, 2010, 12:00:38 PM
Quote
my meters Track 100% correctly. do you have issues with that then?
Yeah, I think I might pull out all my diodes and re do it with matching parts.  When matching diodes are we just trying to get say, D1 on channel one to match D1 on channel two or are there pairs with each channel that should be matched?

How are other folks meters matching the scale?  Meaning, if I monitor my gain reduction in PT or with a dmm, at 20dbs and 2dbs things are pretty accurate but in the middle range my meters might show 12dbs where I'm actually getting 8dbs of reduction.

Right now the unit is at a friends studio and we here in philadelphia are experiencing what the local news has called "snowmageddon" so unfortunately I can't investigate the issues with the controls right now.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 10, 2010, 04:44:51 PM
Have you calibrated the unit? You really have to calibrate it to make any kind of assessment, the last 2U stereo unit I did I got 0.124 and 0.120 where the ideal is 0.123 at the end of the calibration, that is about .1dB difference between the units, I matched the diodes as best I could.

Follow the calibration procedure a few pages back... if I get some time I might flesh it out a bit more from what Kambo has shared with the dBu in references to Volts AC RMS.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: stitch-o on February 10, 2010, 11:29:57 PM
hey guys,

another couple here, one finished, one a few knobs yet to get, i love these compressors....all sounding fab!

(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254csif.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254both.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254csifl.jpg)
(http://www.grandmasteraudio.com/2254in.jpg)

cheers!




I just threw up a little in my mouth
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on February 11, 2010, 12:44:01 AM
i know... nuts!!  ??? 8) sinestaraudio - these look BETTER than the real thing.

how did you do those panels? powder coat then engrave? or is it silk screened? what typeface did you use?

and those vertical sifams look awesome too...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 11, 2010, 03:41:33 AM
Hi Chaps,

ha ha, im not sure if throughing up in your mouth is a good thing or not! ha!  ;D

Still, with these I used a standard grey spray paint, and then engraved them on my CNC, I just used a standard arial font if i remember right.

Still have a few things to work out on the panel paint / paint fill-in as i still get a few problems i need to work out, but im getting there..

Cheers!
Pete

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 11, 2010, 03:55:55 AM
Thought I'd add to the inspiration... here are some pics of a 2U stereo unit I just calibrated... forgive the lovely placements and runner... busy building my new workshop so working off the dining room table at the moment, LOL!!!

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254c_front.jpg)

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254c_front_angle.jpg)

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254c_guts.jpg)

(http://www.matt-allison.com/diy/2254c/2254c_guts_close.jpg)

Cheers

Matt

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 11, 2010, 04:14:01 AM
Right, as promised here is a point by point calibration procedure based on the bits I got from Kambo, Igor and various other sources (thanks to you all for your insight/info along the way).

Before we start we need to set the BIAS current on the output stage of the BA283, the easiest way to do this is to adjust RV1 to give you a 100mA across R"7, the 47R resistor. Logic/Ohms law dictates that 4.7VDC across the 47R resistor is 100mA, so adjust RV1 to give you 4.7VDC across it... simple and effective, no scope required!

Moving on...

Make sure the settings on the control board are as follows:

MAKE-UP GAIN = 0
THRESHOLD = Fully Clockwise
ATTACK = 8 o'clock
RELEASE = Fully Counter Clockwise
RATIO =  1:2
+10 and HPF switched OUT
Compression IN

We then need to set the +CV voltage, which is done on Igor's PSU so adjust the onboard trimmer on the PSU to give you +3VDC at the +CV out.

With the compressor switched in adjust GAIN trimmer to get unity gain.
Then croc clip the +3VDC C+V voltage from PSU to the LINK on Main Board
Adjust RV2 to get -8db (0.308VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust the +CV trimmer on PSU for -20db / (0.0775VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust RV3 to reflect 0db on Meter
REMOVE the croc clip to the main board and PSU
Set the Threshold to -2db (1st click on the Threshold switch)
Adjust RV5 for -1db / 0.690 at output
Set the Ratio to 6:1
Set the Threshold to -20db and measure -16db / (0.123VAC RMS)
Adjust RV3 to reflect this accordingly

If all goes well your unit should be fully calibrated!

Happy compressing  ;D

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: stitch-o on February 11, 2010, 07:15:55 AM
Hi Chaps,

ha ha, im not sure if throughing up in your mouth is a good thing or not! ha!  ;D

Still, with these I used a standard grey spray paint, and then engraved them on my CNC, I just used a standard arial font if i remember right.

Still have a few things to work out on the panel paint / paint fill-in as i still get a few problems i need to work out, but im getting there..

Cheers!
Pete



Hey Pete,
It was good throw up.

Cheers!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on February 11, 2010, 07:55:44 AM
Hey Matt,

super neat wiring, very tidy!

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 11, 2010, 08:36:00 AM
Hey Matta, I have calibrated mine and they are working well for the most part but there's a few issues that I need to clear up.  Mine are about 0.2 off from each other at the end of the test procedure.  But, if I feed a 0db signal, and monitor my gain reduction externally, going through each step of the threshold and ratio they drift by as much as 0.7 at some settings.  Also, while my meters are set accurately in use they aren't really behaving right.  What I mean is that through out the test procedure my measurements are pretty right on.  However if I test the actual drop in voltage and convert it to dbs at settings some where in the middle like threshold at -12 and ratio at 3:1, while the gain reduction is pretty close on both channels and the meters are in about the same position they indicate that the gain reduction is "x" when it's actually "y".  I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this.  I assume if I go back and match my diodes they might stand up a little straighter. 

looking at your procedure I noticed this, as a point of confusion.  I guess it's just a question of what scale you are using (I'm using Igors) but to be clear, when setting the PSU for -20db we are adjusting the meter to be to the far right of whatever scale is being used.  Is that correct?

Quote
Adjust the +CV trimmer on PSU for -20db / (0.0775VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust RV3 to reflect 0db on Meter

Quote
- Adjust Pot on PSU for -20db at output
- Adjust RV3 for 20db on meter

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 11, 2010, 09:32:24 AM
as long as you are reading correct measurements with your DMM you are fine...
VU is just a cosmetic... dont forget you have 2 resistors connected to your VUs, if they are
off tolerance you will get different reaction for sure... you should be able to get correct reading by adjusting
VU adjustment trimmer...
you need to match your "4x2=8" diodes for good stereo image...

far right is 20db or whatever point on VU you want... feel free to do your own scale...
once you mark your 20db, then you markup your 8db and so on....
i use one with 10db scale on mix_buss, one with 20+db(0db on VU) on drum buss :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 11, 2010, 09:59:17 AM
I can't speak for the meters as I used the 'correct' 1DC mA meter with a scale from 0-20, I know many are using VU meters, so that may impact things somewhat.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 11, 2010, 10:01:25 AM

Thanks Pete!

Yip, I tend to be compulsive... I also colour coded them all, each number on a molex header is associated with a colour, makes for easier troubleshooting down the line, if needed. Yes it takes longer, but worth the efforts, at least I THINK it is  ;D

Matt

Hey Matt,

super neat wiring, very tidy!

Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on February 11, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
hey Matt, i see your twisted wires are off_centered about 1:100000000th of a mm ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: matta on February 11, 2010, 01:06:37 PM

WHAT!!! I failed  :'( Hah Hah!

hey Matt, i see your twisted wires are off_centered about 1:100000000th of a mm ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 11, 2010, 04:57:55 PM
Matta, this is the best build quality I saw on pictures here. Hurray!
Really cool.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 11, 2010, 08:40:24 PM
Quote
you should be able to get correct reading by adjusting
VU adjustment trimmer...

Well, the issue is I set them to be the same at a given setting then at other compression levels they get off from each other.

Quote
far right is 20db or whatever point on VU you want... feel free to do your own scale...
once you mark your 20db, then you markup your 8db and so on....

Yeah I was thinking that might be a good move.

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm being a spazz, just trying to tighten things up a little.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 11, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
I know this issue. If you use Farnell's ST7, add 220 and 680 Om
to get 1ma full scale (was described some tens posts ago), at least those values I got
when calibrating the unit about a year ago, than calibrate meter's 20db for max scale of st7,
than, draw small points at 2, 4, 8, 12, 16 db.
Than, remove the scale from VU, put on scanner, photozhop it as you want, and print.
This way you have exactly calibrated scale with your own design.
One little thing. Check for different 33609 versions, they have bit different scales
(8db right or left from center).
When calibrating 20 db, be sure unit is calibrated before for 3.000v/8.00db
to get good stereo link. After first 3v/8db calibration let unit work 5-10 min and check again.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: substitute on February 11, 2010, 09:19:06 PM
Quote
I know this issue. If you use Farnell's ST7, add 220 and 680 Om
to get 1ma full scale (was described some tens posts ago),

Yes, this is how I have it set up.

Quote
When calibrating 20 db, be sure unit is calibrated before for 3.000v/8.00db
to get good stereo link. After first 3v/8db calibration let unit work 5-10 min and check again.

yup!

Thanks for developing this project igor, a year and a half ago when I built my first tremelo pedal I never thought I'd be building something like this. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: leadbreath on March 12, 2010, 06:20:19 PM
Hi guys

could someone please post the size/dimension of the main 2254 PCB.

thanks for any help in advance.

mickey
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 13, 2010, 03:26:10 AM
Mickey,

168mm(d) x 164mm(w) i make it..

Best
Pete
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 13, 2010, 06:19:26 PM
Quote
a year and a half ago when I built my first tremelo pedal I never thought I'd be building something like this.


That's cool! Really, hats off!
/I still...never built any tremolo pedal!!! :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on March 13, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
if you supply square control V to 2254c, it becomes a dynamic tremolo box  ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: leadbreath on March 14, 2010, 12:36:15 AM
he he he

this place rules.

thanks for the info sinestar.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2010, 08:18:54 AM
Quote
if you supply square control V to 2254c, it becomes a dynamic tremolo box
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I can understand. Cool, guys, going to make some tremolo's in a free time!!!!
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: DIYnoob! on March 23, 2010, 07:37:48 AM
Oh man I really wanna do this project! Read the whole thread and still can't wrap my head around the calibration... >:(
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on March 23, 2010, 09:49:56 AM
start soldering... rest is easy ;)
may be you are confused with couple of peoples calibration posts..  actually they all the same... just a different slang...

read the Igor's calibration first. then read other posts to understand the whole procedure.
i was like WTF before soldering...
but when you have the finished pcb in front of you, things start to make sense.....
this project is easier then gssl comp, as there is no mambo_jambo about what chip, what resistor, etc...
( no offense to gssl btw. i love my gssl with lundahl inputs, cinemag output Hs/Ls filtering )
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: DIYnoob! on March 23, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
wow great  ;D
I've used a few different 2254/33609 type comps over the years and I definitely love the coloration it adds. I mean I know its not always exactly the same, but from all these pictures you can tell it sounds wonderful. Something like this would be a blast! Thanks for the input Kambo!
Now onto sourcing parts woot  ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on April 28, 2010, 09:22:50 AM
hoping someone can help me out...ive just finished a stereo 2254c build. calibrated both channels and all seems good except the right channel seems to be phase reversed. im using carnhill transformers and i built both channels up side by side and have checked over all components over and over and still cant find the cause. i've also tried using the threshold and ratio boards from the left channel to try and eliminate sections of the build but the signal still comes out phase reversed. any help would be great.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on April 28, 2010, 09:41:23 AM
also just out of interest, when switch to bypass my audio cuts out completely. is this normal?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on April 29, 2010, 02:31:22 AM
RE phase - could it be as simple as reversing pin 2+3 on either input or output XLR?

RE bypass - i haven't built a 2254C yet, but that doesn't sound normal... look for mistakes around the bypass relays?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on April 29, 2010, 03:43:18 AM
Quote
calibrated both channels and all seems good except the right channel seems to be phase reversed. im using carnhill transformers and i built both channels up side by side and have checked over all components over and over and still cant find the cause. i've also tried using the threshold and ratio boards from the left channel to try and eliminate sections of the build but the signal still comes out phase reversed. any help would be great
.

If you can sync the scope with audio oscillator's "sync" output, and see stage by stage where
the phase goes wrong, it is easy way.

If no, possible to try sum signals from l and r channels thru 2x10k resistors after the interstage
transformer and see if there's no phase reverse.
This way, we can know where phase is reversed.

If you can post some pictures with bypass relays, will be good.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on April 29, 2010, 09:27:02 AM
ok so the bypass problem is now sorted....wrong output wiring so i was shorting pin 2 to ground...still have the problem of inverted phase. when the unit is in bypass the phase is fine, but when comp is in it gets reversed. my transformer wiring is like this

T1 vtb9046
2 pri +
3-4 shorted
5 pri -
6 ground
7 sec +
8-9 shorted
10 sec -

T2 vtb9045
2 pri +
3-4 shorted
5 pri -
6 ground
7 sec +
8-9 shorted
10 sec -

they are wired the same on both channels so i very much doubt there is a problem here otherwise i would be seeing the same fault on the other channel

thanks for the help so far
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on April 29, 2010, 10:01:35 AM
an update...using a scope i found that the phase is reversed after T2 (vtb9045) secondaries. the sec + is out. i swapped the transformer from the left channel (working channel) and the signal is now in phase. they are wired exactly the same so i have no idea why this is happening but i just reversed the secondaries and the signal is now in phase and the unit seems to be working fine.

thanks again for the help

george
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on April 29, 2010, 08:28:21 PM
strange! perhaps someone was napping when they wired up that transformer...

good job on the troubleshooting  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 02, 2010, 04:16:00 PM
Does this means you had transformer with wrong marked secondary's?
They should have this kinda QC at the factory....strange!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on May 08, 2010, 05:19:57 AM
Yeah you'd think that wouldn't you :)

so the unit is now working fine although I'm having trouble calibrating it. Firstly should I be sending it 1kHz at .775v or 1.228? I'd like to cal it for +4 but everytime I try it gets to the rv5 trim pot and I can't seem to get it to show me a voltage reading for -1. Also once it is calibrated (I've just used .775v at the moment) even with threshold at 0 it is still compressing just the slightest bit. Is this normal or am I calibrating wrong? I've biased the 183 with 4.7v across the 47r resistor, where should all my other trim pots be at the start of the calibration, ie cw or ccw or does it not matter? I'm sure I'm missing some simple logic here but some help would be great.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 08, 2010, 06:12:00 PM
Quote
Yeah you'd think that wouldn't you Smiley
Yep. Anyway, you can take the trafo off circuit and check if the phase reverse was caused by trunny.

Quote
so the unit is now working fine although I'm having trouble calibrating it. Firstly should I be sending it 1kHz at .775v or 1.228?

I'd say, from original cal proc., it is 1.228 VAC, but...God knows what they meant 0dbU :)

Quote
I'd like to cal it for +4 but everytime I try it gets to the rv5 trim pot and I can't seem to get it to show me a voltage reading for -1.

You mean, you can't cal it for higher than 0dbu threshold?
IMHO, they meant 0, not +4 at test proc. Simply try to use 100k at place of RV5 trimpot to higher the threshold.

It is not Neve'ish, but may work. Originals (if I don't miss here a point:) calibrated for 0dbu, not +4.

Quote
Also once it is calibrated (I've just used .775v at the moment) even with threshold at 0 it is still compressing just the slightest bit. Is this normal or am I calibrating wrong?

Yes, it starts to compress bit before actual threshold.

Quote
I've biased the 183 with 4.7v across the 47r resistor, where should all my other trim pots be at the start of the calibration, ie cw or ccw or does it not matter? I'm sure I'm missing some simple logic here but some help would be great.

183 part should be adjusted for symmetric distortion at 600 Ohm load at out.trafo secondary.
Logic depends on component's tolerances, i.e. as it is random-there's no logic.
Just stick to test procedure.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: gg85 on May 09, 2010, 08:36:42 AM
this might be a stupid question but how to i measure the symmetric distortion? i don't have a distortion meter but i do have a scope.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 09, 2010, 11:17:41 AM
I meant, symmetric clipping at 600 Ohm load.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on May 09, 2010, 07:50:35 PM
gg85 - an oscilloscope makes it easy, raise the input level of the test tone to clipping point and look for equal clipping of the top and bottom of the waveform.

if you don't have access to a scope you might be able to do it using your computer DAW - if you have a way of passively padding/attenuating the output (otherwise your computer will probably clip before the output of the neve) - by recording passes of test tone, zooming in on the waveform and adjusting the trimmer, then recording another pass. repeat until it's symmetrical.

i imagine it doesn't need to be PERFECT - a little bit of asymmetrical clipping will just tweak the odd/even harmonic ratio of the clipping (?). but you don't want it to be WAY off...

 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 11, 2010, 07:11:06 AM
Thanx Haima!
gg85: google BA283 adjust :)
http://www.auroraaudio.net/dcforum/DCForumID1/621.html
http://recording.org/tech-talk/43476-neve-ba283-output-stage.html
etc

Really, people, please search before asking!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on May 11, 2010, 10:30:27 AM
one more thing, use a triangle waveform test signal - they are the easiest to see clipping on a scope.

and don't forget to load the output transformer with 600 ohms (a 620ohm resistor will do) - as igor mentioned above.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on May 12, 2010, 02:08:58 PM
BTW. This can be helpfull.

Question:

Quote
C4 on the BOM is listed as 470-680uF, 25volt
C'4 and C"4 on the board show a value of 80uF.
Are all of these the same component (C4, C'4, C"4), and what value should it be?

I sticked to numbering at BA283 board, and due to this can be some mess.

The values are correct. Please check the PCB silkscreen.

C4" (470...680uF): power supply bypass capacitor at B183.112

c"4: 80(100)uF: capacitor in feedback path of B183.110
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: tongenerator on May 26, 2010, 10:33:51 AM
i am interessted in builidung one of those (2channel)

but i am not sure about the in/output transformer. which transormer do i have to use an does somebody knows where to get them, please?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on May 26, 2010, 12:23:20 PM
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg398047#msg398047
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: tongenerator on May 27, 2010, 09:37:07 AM
thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on June 07, 2010, 03:24:51 PM
does someone has a frontpannel file of the 2254 for me?
i want to use special meters so the standard pannel is nothing i can use.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 07, 2010, 05:10:25 PM
Feel free to PM or mail for .cdr file.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on June 08, 2010, 10:31:24 AM
thank you igor, but i only have the schäfer frontpanneldesigner. so anyone got messurements or a file for this programm?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 08, 2010, 12:05:51 PM
It is easy to convert .cdr to .plt which is acceptable by Shaeffner.
Draw 10x10 cm rectangle in Corel, convert it to .plt, open in fpd-
you can check if conversion is right, maybe to play with 1000/40/1016 plt units....
I rare do drawings with measurement: as I have front template and
pcb dimensions exported directly from pcb software, and conversion is right,
the rest is only right conversion to g-code for engraving/milling...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on June 11, 2010, 04:34:56 PM
got the irons today. and fired up the first channel. compression is working.. but ;-) it sounds like passed through a lo-pass filter... what could be the problem ? i connectet the irons via the molex connectors. is the writing on the pcb correct? anybody got a voltage chart?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 12, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
Check input/output Molex connectors on PCB 1+ 2gnd 3-
Check transformer's wiring
When going balanced to unbalanced short -output of in(out) to gnd
Etc:)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on June 13, 2010, 08:53:01 AM
hmm connections seems to be right.
today i finished the second channel soldered the irons direct on the pcb and same problem occurred here. compression, sidechainfilter aso. is working i think but ther is something like a lo-pass filter on the whole signal. Is it right to use for TR1 9046 and for TR2 9045. maybe i used wrong caps for c´´11 680p; c2´´ 220nF; c5´´ 330nF ? EDIT: are these the right values??
I also connected no meters untill now but this should be no problem right?

thanks for your help!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 13, 2010, 08:34:59 PM
Quote
maybe i used wrong caps for c´´11 680p; c2´´ 220nF; c5´´ 330nF ? EDIT: are these the right values??
Right values are 680PF, 220PF, 330PF
220=220pF etc
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 14, 2010, 06:15:16 AM
F
Amen :)
/well, kidding, used same as shown at schematic with TF10015/16
Title: Another 2254C satisfied customer!!
Post by: juniorhifikit on June 14, 2010, 04:16:01 PM
Just finished up my 2254's (finally!)  And just in time for some mixing on the new Posies record.  Didn't even calibrate them yet (other than biasing) - they sound great!  I especially like the sound of the makeup gain/output section driving the transformers.  so much so that I built some 10dB pads so I wouldn't clip the converters on the way back in.  Once I get a free day I'll do the meter scale and calibrate the whole deal, but for now I'm having too much fun mixing.  I used Tat's case, and it looks pretty good.  Thanks Igor and group!
(http://www.scottgreiner.com/SG2254a.JPG)
(http://www.scottgreiner.com/SG2254b.JPG)
sorry about the crappy iPhone camera
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on June 14, 2010, 04:18:50 PM
HURRAY!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on June 19, 2010, 03:02:09 PM
next good news: i changed the two caps with wrong value to the right value 220p and 330p and the unit now sounds great. i will install a switch on the back with a few different attack/release timing caps.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on June 24, 2010, 02:13:41 AM
So I finally got a few days free to calibrate this thing.  Bias is good, 3V cv is good, but I can't get the gain down to unity.  I'm at the bottom of the trim pot and I'm still almost 5 dB above unity, making the other calibrations a little tricky. Should I just change R"19 (in series with the trim pot) from 820 Ohms down to something smaller?  Or is there possibly something wrong elsewhere causing the gain to be weird?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 03, 2010, 08:17:37 AM
so.. where are people getting their BC214s? ebay?

or has anyone tried substituting something from the current production BC5XX series?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 03, 2010, 06:11:01 PM
BC212 will work as well as BC177/179.
No need for high beta, 140...500 is quite enough.
Check transistor's pinout /(datasheet!!!) to avoid headache with getting the thing working :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 03, 2010, 11:06:50 PM
thanks igor! i think i might have some BC179s in my parts collection. i'll check the pinout for sure.

i'm getting closer to finishing my stereo 2254C, about half way stuffed - i have a big package on the way from mouser, including most of the remaining parts. fedex says it'll arrive on my birthday - happy coincidence!  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 04, 2010, 01:05:16 PM
so i also have some problems with the calibration.. i could not get the gain down so i lowered the 820 resistor to 715 but its not nearly enough. if i trimm the rv2 controllvoltage its no problem to get the gain down but then the next step is the problem.. with 3v on the link i can only get down to 0.402 what im doing wrong.. i rechecked and tryed a lot the last days ;-)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 04, 2010, 05:39:35 PM
@Haima: all the best! How old you become?
@king-rb: can you please explain the problem in other words to let me a try to help? ;)
What is your comp's gain without compression? (I.e. can you get to unity gain without
compression/makeup?)
Which 820R you mean and at which calibration stage you can't get down
the gain?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 04, 2010, 09:55:04 PM
igor - i turn 31 years young tomorrow 8)

i'm planning a nice day in the workshop stuffing my 2254 boards! thanks for all the great projects and support you give us. big thumbs up!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 05, 2010, 04:29:38 AM
okay sorry ;-) other words:
>i changed the R``19 to 715R
>input gain is 0.775V AC
>with the gain trim i can get to 1.150V AC minimum
>i have to trim RV2 Controller Voltage to get the gain down to 0.775V AC
>but then i dont have enough space to get the voltage down to 0.308 with the 3v on the Link
aso...
i used bc177 instead of bc214
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 05, 2010, 06:00:02 PM
Editing my question as I have figured some things out. I have read this whole thread, and I am sorry if I missed what I am about to ask. For a mono unit, I need a 15VA 2 x 12V toroid. 30 VA is only needed for a dual version. So far so good?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 06, 2010, 08:21:07 PM
Re: availability of BC214 - i found futurlec has them for a pretty good price:

http://www.futurlec.com.au/price1.jsp?part_no=BC214 (http://www.futurlec.com.au/price1.jsp?part_no=BC214)

i just ordered a batch. remains to be seen what brand etc they are... i'll post my results here  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 07, 2010, 07:14:29 AM
Great! Ordered a few of this.. so maybe then i will have not such big problems with the calibration...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 07, 2010, 08:00:11 AM
king-rb: theoretically, i believe the BC177 should work fine - so don't rule out another source for your calibration issue...

but there's a possibility swapping them for BC214 might save you - hope so!  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on July 09, 2010, 12:05:31 PM
@Haima: all the best! How old you become?
@king-rb: can you please explain the problem in other words to let me a try to help? ;)
What is your comp's gain without compression? (I.e. can you get to unity gain without
compression/makeup?)
Which 820R you mean and at which calibration stage you can't get down
the gain?

For me, when trying to adjust for unity gain with compressor in; no compression and no make-up gain added; the gain trim pot is all the way down and I'm still almost 5 dB above unity.  Should I just change R"19 (in series with the gain trim pot) from 820 Ohms down to something smaller?  Or is there possibly something wrong elsewhere causing the gain to be too high?  With a 5K trim pot, I don't imagine changing the 820 Ohm series resistance will change much (it's only 16% of trimmer value).  Anyone else have trouble trimming down to unity gain?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 10, 2010, 02:46:48 PM
Quote
i turn 31 years young tomorrow
HURRAY!!!!!! Happy happy birthday!!!!!! All the best, wish you be happy and good health!

Quote
i'm planning a nice day in the workshop stuffing my 2254 boards!
That's cool. Don't forget to take some beers after all this works!

Quote
>i changed the R``19 to 715R
>input gain is 0.775V AC
>with the gain trim i can get to 1.150V AC minimum
>i have to trim RV2 Controller Voltage to get the gain down to 0.775V AC
>but then i dont have enough space to get the voltage down to 0.308 with the 3v on the Link
aso...
i used bc177 instead of bc214

Changing r"19 lower will give higher gain.
Check if gain trimpot is 5k. Check the signal flow,
maybe, somehow transformers are connected 1:4 instead of 1:2 etc.
Maybe, wrong resistor somewhere. Which transformers did yuy used and how did you connected them?
/this was discussed in this thread/

Quote
I have read this whole thread, and I am sorry
if I missed what I am about to ask.
For a mono unit, I need a 15VA 2 x 12V toroid.
30 VA is only needed for a dual version. So far so good?

Yes, 15VA will be OK.

   
Quote
Re: availability of BC214 - i found futurlec has them for a pretty good price:

http://www.futurlec.com.au/price1.jsp?part_no=BC214

i just ordered a batch. remains to be seen what brand etc they are... i'll post my results here

TELL US!!!!!!

Quote
For me, when trying to adjust for unity gain with compressor in;
no compression and no make-up gain added; the gain trim pot
is all the way down and I'm still almost 5 dB above unity. 
That's right...except 5db
Quote
Should I just change R"19 (in series with the gain trim pot)
from 820 Ohms down to something smaller? 
Or is there possibly something wrong elsewhere causing the gain to be too high? 
Higher r"19+trimpot less gain.
I have a strange feel that somehow transformers connected 1:4 instead of 1:2
or there's a wrong resistor somewhere....

Quote
Anyone else have trouble trimming down to unity gain?
Yes, some tens posts ago, lower gain....IIRC it was solved, good luck and tell us!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 10, 2010, 09:22:23 PM
Thanks Igor! I just wanted to make sure on that one. Can't wait to get started.  ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 18, 2010, 05:53:57 AM

Quote
Re: availability of BC214 - i found futurlec has them for a pretty good price:

http://www.futurlec.com.au/price1.jsp?part_no=BC214

i just ordered a batch. remains to be seen what brand etc they are... i'll post my results here

TELL US!!!!!!

OK - the BC214 package arrived from futurlec (it was delayed due to them not being able to source another part of the order - which they didn't tell me untill a week later... after i asked them when to expect the package - to their credit they did fedex it to me when i asked them to hurry up)

the transistors i was sent are marked with a "f" (Fairchild) and "BC214LC" - notice the "L" which means they have the ECB pinout, rather than the more common CBE. but they will fit the 2254C boards easily if you fit them at an angle, just follow the nice legending igor has put on the top screenprint!

igor - i'm glad you used "staggered" pins on the transistors, rather than all in a line - makes these kind of pinout substitutions easier!

i've tested a few of these BC214LC with my cheap DMM and they are coming up 400-500 hFE - mostly around 450.

here's a link to the fairchild datasheet: http://www.vakits.com/datasheets/Transistors/BC214LC.pdf (http://www.vakits.com/datasheets/Transistors/BC214LC.pdf)

BTW - haven't got much time right now for DIY, so it might be a few weeks until i can post results of these transistors in circuit  :'(
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 18, 2010, 06:09:46 AM
Cool! If these are BC214LC, they will work perect.

Quote
notice the "L" which means they have the ECB pinout, rather than the more common CBE. but they will fit the 2254C boards easily if you fit them at an angle, just follow the pcb legending

This is absolutely right.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 19, 2010, 07:37:34 AM
The build manual from Reanimatorstudio is here:

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/thumbnails.php?album=409
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 19, 2010, 01:18:56 PM
Thanks Igor! Got the docs. Just waiting for the mail man.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 20, 2010, 07:24:39 AM
Quote
Just waiting for the mail man.
?? :)
Mail about-what? Maybe it gone to spam or not received. Can you please mail again?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 21, 2010, 05:08:04 PM
today i changed the bc177 to bc214 b. now i can callibrate the unit and everything is in specs! great compressor and stereo matching is really good. im now working on the perfect attack & release....
thanks to igor!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 21, 2010, 08:01:57 PM
Please tell us more about BC177.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 21, 2010, 08:48:39 PM
Quote
Just waiting for the mail man.
?? :)
Mail about-what? Maybe it gone to spam or not received. Can you please mail again?

For the PCB's. They arrived last week, so no more waiting! Your email arrived no problem. Thanks for passing along that file.

Just a quick question. Does anyone have a front panel designer file that they wouldn't mind sharing? I really don't want to mess up the control placement.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 22, 2010, 03:19:42 AM
the bc177 i ordered at Farnell "Coil BC 177C nx" is the writing on it. with this transistors the unit was working and sounding good but way out of specs..
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: loopermc5 on July 22, 2010, 09:42:12 PM
Anyone one use anything beyond the standard fair for transformers? I'm getting ready to order mine figures id ask?

Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 22, 2010, 10:28:12 PM
Most of the builds I've seen use Carnhill transformers. In fact, I have yet to see a build that used anything other than Carnhills. I would be interested to hear about if anyone has used another transformer type in their build. I know transformers are a huge part of the sound. So the "Neve" sound is in the Carnhills. I wonder what Lundahls or Cinemags would do in this circuit.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 23, 2010, 05:25:36 AM
The unit is working great now for two days ;-) But i have some concerns with the psu. The regulator gets really hot (after 30 minutes around 55^C) i useed on secondary of a 25V 2x0,6A Power Transformer. Should i use both secondarys in parallel so its 2x 0,6A or should this be no problem?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 23, 2010, 06:03:21 AM
you should be fine. the LM317 is rated to around 125°C AFAIK, and they also have thermal shut down protection.

but out of interest, what voltage do you measure on the input pin of the regulator? does the regulator have a nice big heatsink on it? where exactly did you measure the 55 degrees?

if anything, paralleling the secondaries of your power transformer might slightly increase the voltage at the regulator input due to less current being pulled thorough the transformer, i.e. less "sag". it might cool the transformer a bit if that's the problem. but you are talking about the regulator heating up, not the transformer... yes?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 23, 2010, 06:19:03 AM
thanks for this fast answer!
transformer is ice cold.
regulator heat messured direct on the regulator not on the heat sink.
i will add a much bigger heat sink to be save then.
voltage on the input pin of regulator is: 39,5V
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 23, 2010, 06:46:54 AM
i think you'll be fine.

but if it worries you, up-size the heatsink or bond the regulator to the case - make sure you use insulating washers + thermal paste, or those rubbery adhesive insulators that do the job of both.

anyway, glad to hear your compressor's working  8) post some pictures or samples!

mine's almost done - i'll probably be running some audio through it this weekend... then i need to get a nice case happening!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 23, 2010, 05:49:40 PM
Quote
Just a quick question. Does anyone have a front panel designer file that they wouldn't mind sharing? I really don't want to mess up the control placement.

Feel free to mail about .cdr (Corel) files. It is possible to take the PCB dimensions
in .ps or .plt than import them into FPD. Check for conversion units, BTW, sometimes PLT
converted as 1000 and not 1016 units.

Quote
the bc177 i ordered at Farnell "Coil BC 177C nx" is the writing on it. with this transistors the unit was working and sounding good but way out of specs..

Hm... Strange. I used NOS BC179 in one unit, worked fine.

Quote
Anyone one use anything beyond the standard fair for transformers?
Me :)
TF10015/16, my outputs (Hi-B, gaped C-core).
Gave an attempt to wound input/interstage on DU2023 lams, 84% Ni,
loved them more for sound than 31267+Carenhill interstage.
Too many time investment, but worth this.
Less disrorted low-mid, still huge sound. Again, all these sound talks is matter of taste.

Input/interstage transformers IMHO better to wound on DU or UI laminations
(two symmetric coils), copper shield between windings must. Some trunny' woodoo as well :)
TF100XX are wound on EI laminations, BUT for me, sounded good.

Quote
The unit is working great now for two days ;-)

HURRAY!!!!!
Quote
But i have some concerns with the psu. The regulator gets really hot (after 30 minutes around 55^C) i useed on secondary of a 25V 2x0,6A Power Transformer. Should i use both secondarys in parallel so its 2x 0,6A or should this be no problem?

Use bigger heatsink, as it was suggested. 40-50deg C is OK.
The windings are in parallel or one half is used, but not series connection.
Yes, right, see it from your later post :)

Quote
if anything, paralleling the secondaries of your power transformer might slightly increase the voltage at the regulator input due to less current being pulled thorough the transformer, i.e. less "sag". it might cool the transformer a bit if that's the problem. but you are talking about the regulator heating up, not the transformer... yes?

Just...my $0.02, paralleling the windings is better for transformer. Less power going to heat etc.


Quote
i will add a much bigger heat sink to be save then.
voltage on the input pin of regulator is: 39,5V

Absolutely fine.
Quote
mine's almost done - i'll probably be running some audio through it this weekend... then i need to get a nice case happening!

Yummmm... Again, feel free to mail about .cdr file.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on July 24, 2010, 03:14:53 PM

mine's almost done - i'll probably be running some audio through it this weekend... then i need to get a nice case happening!


keep it coming.  ;D
i started my second unit today.
cheers, alex

Just a quick question. Does anyone have a front panel designer file that they wouldn't mind sharing? I really don't want to mess up the control placement.

i have a .fpd file kindly translated by frank (frontpanels.de) from igors corel file. email me if interested. of course you have to tweak it for your taste, as i think my idea of frontpanel style is different... at least that´s what my discussions with frank shows.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 25, 2010, 01:19:30 AM
@ultra-alex: can you send me this file too? Please! :)
BTW, what is cost for 2254C front panel when ordered at frontpanelexpress?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on July 25, 2010, 01:37:26 AM
can we host it somewhere (i have web space if needed) - i think lots of people would find it useful...

i'm pretty sure i'm going to get pete "grandmaster audio" to make me one of his lovely grey painted numbers though!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on July 25, 2010, 04:29:03 AM
@ultra-alex: can you send me this file too? Please! :)
BTW, what is cost for 2254C front panel when ordered at frontpanelexpress?

igor, email sent! i don´t know about the cost @ frontpanelexpress? i paid about 90 eur for mine at frontpanels.de.


i'm pretty sure i'm going to get pete "grandmaster audio" to make me one of his lovely grey painted numbers though!

i also got a panel from pete for the next unit. very very nice but not cheap though... ;)
cheers, alex

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=38500.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=38500.0)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on July 25, 2010, 01:30:20 PM
Ultra-alex- Is your FPD file for a stereo version or mono?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on July 25, 2010, 06:10:06 PM
stereo. 2RU.
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg463410#msg463410
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 25, 2010, 07:12:24 PM
@ultra-alex: thanx for sharing the file!
Regarding the N*ve logo. It was discussed many times before.
Let's give respect to Mr. Rupert. I hope this unit done for personal use only.
From the other side, excellent looking panels!
FPD is excellent service, not cheap, but quality worth this.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 07, 2010, 04:18:42 AM
Hi Igor,

Please can you give some idea for :

- which transformers !
can I use Mike's --> http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=63

-Which Power Transformer !
can I use Mike's --> http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=37

please more help for the kits !
Thanks,
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ultra-alex on August 07, 2010, 05:34:41 AM

- which transformers !
can I use Mike's --> http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=63

-Which Power Transformer !
can I use Mike's --> http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=37

please more help for the kits !
Thanks,
cheers,

go through this thread. all the help you ask for is already here...
transformer discussion (for example) on the first pages. most of us use carnhills. find here...
http://www.audiomaintenance.com (http://www.audiomaintenance.com).
regarding torodials. for example...
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg429071#msg429071 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=32605.msg429071#msg429071)
but of course any other 1A 24V will work fine.


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 20, 2010, 07:27:41 PM

All resistors in kit are in +/-2% range, because sometimes I have in stock,
for example, 46.4 Kohm 1% instead of 47 kOhm 5%.


ouppssss ! I got all resistors from mouser and they are %1 ? so I got a ittle problem or they will work ?
Thanks
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on August 20, 2010, 08:07:53 PM

All resistors in kit are in +/-2% range, because sometimes I have in stock,
for example, 46.4 Kohm 1% instead of 47 kOhm 5%.


ouppssss ! I got all resistors from mouser and they are %1 ? so I got a ittle problem or they will work ?
Thanks
cheers,

Those will work just fine. It will actually make your circuit have a tighter tolerance.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 21, 2010, 05:40:48 AM

All resistors in kit are in +/-2% range, because sometimes I have in stock,
for example, 46.4 Kohm 1% instead of 47 kOhm 5%.


ouppssss ! I got all resistors from mouser and they are %1 ? so I got a ittle problem or they will work ?
Thanks
cheers,


Those will work just fine. It will actually make your circuit have a tighter tolerance.

Thanks Insomniaclown
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 22, 2010, 07:22:50 AM
Hi All,
I can't fine 820 Ohms (Farnell France:(
Can I put 768Ω or 845Ω.  ?
Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on August 22, 2010, 08:23:51 AM
820R is a common value - there's HEAPS of different ones available from farnell... try typing in "820R" into the search bar.

then filter the results:

* +/-1%
* axial/axial leaded
* between 0.25 and 0.6 watt)

etc

gets you heaps of results. like this one:

http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/mf25-820r/resistance-0-25w-1-820r/dp/9342265 (http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/mf25-820r/resistance-0-25w-1-820r/dp/9342265)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 22, 2010, 10:43:10 AM
820R is a common value - there's HEAPS of different ones available from farnell... try typing in "820R" into the search bar.

then filter the results:

* +/-1%
* axial/axial leaded
* between 0.25 and 0.6 watt)

etc

gets you heaps of results. like this one:

http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/mf25-820r/resistance-0-25w-1-820r/dp/9342265 (http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/mf25-820r/resistance-0-25w-1-820r/dp/9342265)
Thanks haima!
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: d.redfern on August 23, 2010, 01:15:03 PM
Just some quick questions about this project (2254) and Igors 33609 project. Are these two separate? what are the differences in layman's terms? has anybody built both if they are different and what are there opinions?

Cheers for replies and sorry for asking dumb questions.
D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on August 23, 2010, 09:56:19 PM
they are similar projects... cousins i you like. they share the same gain reduction circuit and sidechain afaik.

2245c (igor's hybird combination of a few neve compressors):
* single ended class-A make up/output amp (like the output of a 1073 etc)
* sidechain high pass filter
* no limiter

33609 (very close to original 33609 neve circuit):
* option of original neve class-A/B or discrete opamp makeup/output amp
* no sidechain hipass
* limiter

people seem to love both of them. the 2254c is perhaps a little simpler to make, and sounds great - and the HP filter is a awesome addition.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: juniorhifikit on August 25, 2010, 05:14:29 AM
Quote
Should I just change R"19 (in series with the gain trim pot)
from 820 Ohms down to something smaller? 
Or is there possibly something wrong elsewhere causing the gain to be too high? 
Higher r"19+trimpot less gain.
I have a strange feel that somehow transformers connected 1:4 instead of 1:2
or there's a wrong resistor somewhere....

Quote
Anyone else have trouble trimming down to unity gain?
Yes, some tens posts ago, lower gain....IIRC it was solved, good luck and tell us!

Sorry I haven't reposted back.  Still haven't been able to look into this as I'm booked on back-to-back mix projects and the 2254 is being used on all of them.  Even though it's not "correct" it still sounds great, and I can't change it in the middle of an album! ;D

FWIW, here's a song that has it on the drums (kind of like a Jellyfish/Queen song!):

The Posies (http://"http://www.spin.com/articles/exclusive-new-song-posies")
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 25, 2010, 06:18:20 PM
Hi again All,
I got a quick question (newbie also :)
I got two LM317T
http://fr.farnell.com/national-semiconductor/lm317t/regulateur-ajust-1-2-37v/dp/9489398?Ntt=9489398
I already use one of them for the PSU and I need one more for TR1(JE371) if I use LM317T it will work or I need to buy the JE371 ?
Thanks,
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on August 25, 2010, 09:53:10 PM
TR1 is a bipolar transistor - not a voltage regulator (like the LM317T).

best to use a BD140 as per the BOM - try farnell order code 1574351:

http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/bd140/transistor-pnp-to-126/dp/1574351 (http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/bd140/transistor-pnp-to-126/dp/1574351)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on August 25, 2010, 10:51:42 PM
FWIW, here's a song that has it on the drums (kind of like a Jellyfish/Queen song!)

sounds good! and it's great to HEAR your diy in action - there's surprisingly few sound examples on this board!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 26, 2010, 03:00:16 AM
TR1 is a bipolar transistor - not a voltage regulator (like the LM317T).

best to use a BD140 as per the BOM - try farnell order code 1574351:

http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/bd140/transistor-pnp-to-126/dp/1574351 (http://fr.farnell.com/multicomp/bd140/transistor-pnp-to-126/dp/1574351)


Thanks Haima ! again:)
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 29, 2010, 11:17:37 AM
Hi Guys,
Sorry my newbie questions :( but I am not sure about CZ
Is that right ?
http://fr.farnell.com/wima/fkp2-10000pf-5-63v/condensateur-10nf-63v/dp/1005977
___

 C'15 is 470u 25V but I got 470u 10V
is it ok? or I have to get the same V ?
___
C'7-C"7  just I see 47 ?
C'-C" + C'6 C"6 =80u?
I can't see them on the BOM!



Thanks,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 30, 2010, 01:55:00 PM
Bump :(
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 30, 2010, 07:07:15 PM
Hi, all is here:
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/thumbnails.php?album=409

CZ: Please take some time to read about Zobel network.
In short, this is resistor+capacitor used to smooth output
transformer's transient response. Depends on transformer used.
I guess 1k5 1/4W metal film for Rz and 4n7...10n poly, 63V, for Cz, 
this is the info I got from guy who built the unit with Carenhills and did some investigation
on Zobel networks.

Capacitors etc P/Nr's: Farnell search.
http://il.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500004+1000224+5087689+5400430+5087786+5156429+5117011+565143+565157&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=capacitor+470uf&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_IL&catalogId=&prevNValues=500004+1000224&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D500004%2B1000224%26Ntk%3Dgensearch_001%26Ntt%3Dcapacitor%2B470uf%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_IL%26catalogId%3D%26prevNValues%3D500004%2B1000224

Etc.

Quote
C'7-C"7  just I see 47 ?

47uf, 25v

Quote
C'-C" + C'6 C"6 =80u?
I can't see them on the BOM!

The BA183 part is copy-pasted from old good drawing, thus, weird values.
Use here 100u 25V axial BC or Philips capacitors, like 1272' guys do :)

http://il.farnell.com/vishay-bc-components/mal203036101e3/capacitor-100uf-25v/dp/1165423

In general:

http://il.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500004+1000224+5087689+5400430+5117008&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=capacitor+100uf&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_IL&catalogId=&prevNValues=500004+1000224&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D500004%2B1000224%26Ntk%3Dgensearch_001%26Ntt%3Dcapacitor%2B100uf%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_IL%26catalogId%3D%26prevNValues%3D500004%2B1000224
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on August 31, 2010, 06:09:01 AM
Thanks Igor,
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 06:13:24 AM
I finished (soldering:) my compressor and I got a problem with the PSU !

I don't have 24V on the PSU-> PSU in 30 V and PSU Out 30V!!

I put a trim(R 3 -5K) and also I did't understand for 3k57!!! what is does ??

I have  no idea for this problem I have searched it but I didn't find. if any b'dy had the same problem please  explain !! What I need to do??

Thanks,
cheers,

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 07:01:54 AM
R3 or R5 (in combination with the R1) select the output voltage of the power supply. look up the LM317 datasheet for more info as to how this circuit works.

you only need to fit one of the following:

5k trim pot (R3)

OR

3k57 (R5)

if you have installed the trim pot, before connecting the power supply to the main board, adjust the output voltage to 24v using the trim pot. if you have installed R5 you should have roughly 24v straight away.

as with any project, you should always check the power supply first with your multimeter before connecting it to the main board - if the voltage is reversed or too high you can damage many of the components! however, in this case 30v shouldn't have hurt too much.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 08:03:01 AM
R3 or R5 (in combination with the R1) select the output voltage of the power supply. look up the LM317 datasheet for more info as to how this circuit works.

you only need to fit one of the following:

5k trim pot (R3)

OR

3k57 (R5)

if you have installed the trim pot, before connecting the power supply to the main board, adjust the output voltage to 24v using the trim pot. if you have installed R5 you should have roughly 24v straight away.

as with any project, you should always check the power supply first with your multimeter before connecting it to the main board - if the voltage is reversed or too high you can damage many of the components! however, in this case 30v shouldn't have hurt too much.

Thanks Haima,
I got a mistake I have put 10K not 5K :( sorry !
is it ok ? 10K ? ( like R6 10 k 67w)
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 08:09:01 AM
you have put a 10k trim pot instead of a 5k into R3? and you haven't installed R5?

you might be ok with the 10k - if you can adjust it to 24v you should be fine... can you adjust it to 24v?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 08:19:54 AM
you have put a 10k trim pot instead of a 5k into R3? and you haven't installed R5?

you might be ok with the 10k - if you can adjust it to 24v you should be fine... can you adjust it to 24v?

I got two trim pots now -->R 5 and R 3 = 10K
I turn the trim but I have no change on multimeter
but now I got 34V:( I counted the diodes and they work! LM 371 is fine too. I can't understand where I had a mistake?
Thanks ,
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 08:27:13 AM
you should have one trim pot installed in the R3 position and nothing installed in the R5 position.

what do you mean by "I got two trim pots now"?

there is a place for another trim pot on the board (R6) - in the "for adjustment only" section of the board - but this is not needed as far as i know.

what is the voltage at the input pin of the LM317?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 08:47:40 AM
you should have one trim pot installed in the R3 position and nothing installed in the R5 position.



what do you mean by "I got two trim pots now"?

what is the voltage at the input pin of the LM317?

I got two trim pots ->R6 10k and R3 10K

LM317;
 * -95,4 mV
 * -95,4mV
 *  0


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 09:03:14 AM
I got two trim pots ->R6 10k and R3 10K

ok. and nothing installed in R5?


LM317;
 * -95,4 mV
 * -95,4mV
 *  0

that doesn't sound right...

are you measuring DC voltage? you should have your common/black lead attached to the "-24v" point on the bottom right of the power supply PCB.

are you sure you haven't pressed the hold button on your multimeter?

(http://www.afrotechmods.com/reallycheap/UPS/LM317.jpg)

you should have 30v+ on the "V in" pin and a the same or lower voltage (depending on the trim pot setting) on the "V out" pin.

what's the voltage across the big capacitor C1?


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 09:27:09 AM
I got two trim pots ->R6 10k and R3 10K

[quote ok. and nothing installed in R5?
Yep, there is nothing.


LM317;
 * -95,4 mV
 * -95,4mV
 *  0

that doesn't sound right...

are you measuring DC voltage? you should have your common/black lead attached to the "-24v" point on the bottom right of the power supply PCB.

You were right I got the same value  : 30V

 are you sure you haven't pressed the hold button on your multimeter?


Yes, it was sorry ,


you should have 30v+ on the "V in" pin and a the same or lower voltage (depending on the trim pot setting) on the "V out" pin.


same 30V

what's the voltage across the big capacitor C1?

30V

Thanks for helping man!


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 10:00:46 AM
great. seems like everything is correct...

so, are you able to trim the output to 24v by turning R3? it might take quite a few turns if it's a "20 turn" type.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 10:20:09 AM
great. seems like everything is correct...

so, are you able to trim the output to 24v by turning R3? it might take quite a few turns if it's a "20 turn" type.

No, I can't get 24V ! May be I have to turn(CCW) more!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 07, 2010, 10:26:40 AM
try both directions. try many turns.  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 11:50:35 AM
try both directions. try many turns.  ;)

I got it :) Ok ! What I do now for the next step?
Thanks Haima!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 07, 2010, 12:45:46 PM
double check every single component....
connect 24V to ur PCB... and fire,
hope you dont smoke  ;D

re check ur 24V... adjust if necessary...
check if audio passing ok... check controls are working...
then calibrate
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 07, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
try both directions. try many turns.  ;)

I got it :) Ok ! What I do now for the next step?
Thanks Haima!

Ok, I got some mistakes  ::)or I smoke :)
The PSU out is 24 V !
PCB power in 15V  ??? ??? ???
Why ? any idea ?
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on September 07, 2010, 10:31:56 PM
Little by little. Probably you measure "PCB power in" at wrong point.
Measure the voltage at PSU out :)
The voltage after diode rectifier should be in range 30....40V.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Winetree on September 07, 2010, 11:37:50 PM
I can not open the 2254c Manual on Coppermine.
It's a Wordpad Doc and when I try to open it ,
it says I' don't have the Windows 97 graphics file converter.
I'm running Windows XP Pro.
Could someone convert this file and e-mail it to me. Help
[email protected]
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 08, 2010, 12:00:35 AM
someone should make a PDF  :)

i'll can do it but it won't be for a few days probably....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 08, 2010, 06:28:37 AM
Little by little. Probably you measure "PCB power in" at wrong point.
Measure the voltage at PSU out :)
The voltage after diode rectifier should be in range 30....40V.

Thanks Igor,
I measure the PSU out and got this Voltage!
so I got now 24 V psu IN and out 24 V
When I connect the wires to PCB BOARD I got 15V :( I changed th Lm317 too !

I'm till here :) !
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 08, 2010, 07:29:37 AM
I can not open the 2254c Manual on Coppermine.
It's a Wordpad Doc and when I try to open it ,
it says I' don't have the Windows 97 graphics file converter.
I'm running Windows XP Pro.
Could someone convert this file and e-mail it to me. Help
[email protected]

2254c_build_manual_by_Reanimator_.pdf
files.me.com/umitceyhan/9q7rij]files.me.com/umitceyhan/9q7rij]files.me.com/umitceyhan/9q7rij (http://files.me.com/umitceyhan/9q7rij)

33609J.pdf
files.me.com/umitceyhan/glxxq8]files.me.com/umitceyhan/glxxq8]files.me.com/umitceyhan/glxxq8 (http://files.me.com/umitceyhan/glxxq8)

PSU and calibration.rtf
files.me.com/umitceyhan/lt1p7m]files.me.com/umitceyhan/lt1p7m]files.me.com/umitceyhan/lt1p7m (http://files.me.com/umitceyhan/lt1p7m)

Bom page 1
files.me.com/umitceyhan/4iau1x]files.me.com/umitceyhan/4iau1x]files.me.com/umitceyhan/4iau1x (http://files.me.com/umitceyhan/4iau1x)

Bom Page 2
files.me.com/umitceyhan/ue6vat]files.me.com/umitceyhan/ue6vat]files.me.com/umitceyhan/ue6vat (http://files.me.com/umitceyhan/ue6vat)

Edit : you got them :)

cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Winetree on September 08, 2010, 02:18:10 PM
Thank you for for taking the time to list all the information.
Robert
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 08, 2010, 02:23:38 PM
Thank you for for taking the time to list all the information.
Robert

Cool :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on September 08, 2010, 02:29:08 PM
Thanks for the links!
Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 08, 2010, 03:31:44 PM
Little by little. Probably you measure "PCB power in" at wrong point.
Measure the voltage at PSU out :)
The voltage after diode rectifier should be in range 30....40V.

Thanks Igor,
I measure the PSU out and got this Voltage!
so I got now 24 V psu IN and out 24 V
When I connect the wires to PCB BOARD I got 15V :( I changed th Lm317 too !


I'm till here  ???!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 09, 2010, 06:45:25 AM
something on your main board might be drawing a LOT of current and pulling the 24v down to 15. this is not a good thing...

make sure all your electrolytic caps are around the right way. make sure there's no shorts anywhere. make extra sure that the 24v connection is wired correctly - if it's reversed it will probably do some damage and also might make the voltage drop..

is anything getting hot or smoking?

also try unplugging the output transformer - this will disable the output section - check if the power supply voltage still drops to 15v. if this fixes the voltage drop problem, you may have a short etc in the output section. make sure you haven't got a short under the T03 transistor (the big one) - there should be a spacer between it and the board, and the heatsink.

if nothing's getting too hot or smoking, you could try measuring the voltage drop across the power supply series resistors: R44, R43 etc and use ohms law to calculate the current draw.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 10, 2010, 07:04:33 PM

hope you dont smoke  ;D


Yes, I found my problem ! the problem was the 371 and changed it ! got right value on PSU !
But I got smoke :( here R"7 http://fr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/FP001P47R0F6204B8/?qs=fCq1eTfc1mw5Npa1RfO%2f7g%3d%3d (http://fr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/FP001P47R0F6204B8/?qs=fCq1eTfc1mw5Npa1RfO%2f7g%3d%3d) !
Why ? I don't know :( so baddddddd!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 10, 2010, 07:47:22 PM
i told you to, check your components twice, before fire_up.... :(
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 10, 2010, 09:57:06 PM
is it R7" next to the trimpot 47R....between 2n3055 transistor... then you are lucky ;)

its not a big deal.... change ur resistor....
before u fire_up again:
set that trim_pot somewhere in half.... what ever the turn value, half it for now.... also, change that resistor with 1/2 w version...


EDIT : one more trick for you... when you power up, keep your finger on this resistor... if it starts to get really hot with in seconds, turn the unit off, and trim more CV... try again...  actually i have posted before  about where to keep that trimpot if you dont wanna burn ur 47r resistor... read well this back pages... u will be fine...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 11, 2010, 09:12:16 PM
is it R7" next to the trimpot 47R....between 2n3055 transistor... then you are lucky ;)

its not a big deal.... change ur resistor....
before u fire_up again:
set that trim_pot somewhere in half.... what ever the turn value, half it for now.... also, change that resistor with 1/2 w version...


EDIT : one more trick for you... when you power up, keep your finger on this resistor... if it starts to get really hot with in seconds, turn the unit off, and trim more CV... try again...  actually i have posted before  about where to keep that trimpot if you dont wanna burn ur 47r resistor... read well this back pages... u will be fine...


Thanks Mr. Kambo :)
I "finished" the Unit !! lol lollllllllllllllllll :)
But it was so longggggggg with the PSU :) Anyway, what the next ? :) :) :) :)
I know it joky :) but I'll trunback :) Great project Igor ! 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 11, 2010, 10:04:43 PM
well, if its passing audio, and everything seems to be working, then get on with the calibration  ;D
check early pages of this thread, lots of info available...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 12, 2010, 06:22:55 AM
well, if its passing audio, and everything seems to be working, then get on with the calibration  ;D
check early pages of this thread, lots of info available...


again :) me
well, I think I got a small problem with Gain makeup and threshold!
Gain is low and when I increase it I have no different  level !
and threshold is same !
Cheers

PS: Haima I have forgetten to say THANKS !

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 12, 2010, 07:25:21 AM
both the threshold and make-up gain are varied the same way (by a string of resistors to ground from the emitter of a transistor amp...) so if there's a connection problem to the front panel controls i'm guessing signal will still pass through the unit but you will be stuck at the "lowest gain" & "highest threshold" settings. so look for problems in the connection to the front panel board or on the front panel board/switches themselves.

if you unplug the make-up control does the level change?

does the hi-pass filter / attack and release controls work? i imagine it could be hard to tell with a threshold stuck at the top! perhaps none of the front panel controls work?

actually, as far as i can tell from the schematic the unit looks like it would pass signal without ANY front panel connections (?). so perhaps you have something fundamentally wrong with your front panel PCBs or connections to them.... and gain/threshold are the most obvious.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 12, 2010, 07:42:27 AM
both the threshold and make-up gain are varied the same way (by a string of resistors to ground from the emitter of a transistor amp...) so if there's a connection problem to the front panel controls i'm guessing signal will still pass through the unit but you will be stuck at the "lowest gain" & "highest threshold" settings. so look for problems in the connection to the front panel board or on the front panel board/switches themselves.

if you unplug the make-up control does the level change?

does the hi-pass filter / attack and release controls work? i imagine it could be hard to tell with a threshold stuck at the top! perhaps none of the front panel controls work?

actually, as far as i can tell from the schematic the unit looks like it would pass signal without ANY front panel connections (?). so perhaps you have something fundamentally wrong with your front panel PCBs or connections to them.... and gain/threshold are the most obvious.

-if I unplug the make-up control the level is same.

-Hi-pass and attacks, reales controls are working. and the meters work too but I think I have to finish the calibration! may it's a calibration problem?

 I'll check them :) I hope I'll fine it :)

Thanks,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 12, 2010, 08:07:28 AM
good.

so i guess really inspect everything about the threshold and makeup switches, components, connectors and also the main pcb & components in the area related.

good luck! glad the rest of it seems to work.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 12, 2010, 08:33:00 AM
good.

so i guess really inspect everything about the threshold and makeup switches, components, connectors and also the main pcb & components in the area related.

good luck! glad the rest of it seems to work.

I found some thing :) may it was that but I'm not sure ! on front panel controls I see R'17 is 00 ? 100 ohm?


EDIT : Yep, was 100 ohm :) I got the neve sound now :):):)

EDIT 2 : Thanks Kambo,Haima,Arnaud and Igor! Nice work Igor !!!!!

I realy don't like the case!



(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7007/photo1gl.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/photo1gl.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9854/photo3jk.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/photo3jk.jpg/)

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7114/photo2sl.jpg) (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/photo2sl.jpg/)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 13, 2010, 01:12:10 PM
EDIT : Yep, was 100 ohm :) I got the neve sound now :):):)

glad to hear you got to the bottom of it! looking good  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 13, 2010, 03:32:59 PM
EDIT : Yep, was 100 ohm :) I got the neve sound now :):):)

glad to hear you got to the bottom of it! looking good  ;)

Thanks Haima :)
The calibration is so hard :( how did you get the right sound?
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on September 14, 2010, 02:16:30 AM
haha. i haven't finished mine yet - i've been too busy in the studio....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 14, 2010, 10:37:23 AM
you get use to it after some 6 units  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


if you read the calib_pro carefully; its actually easy. patient ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 14, 2010, 06:27:35 PM
you get use to it after some 6 units  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


if you read the calib_pro carefully; its actually easy. patient ;)

Hey Kambo,

I can't have this?
- Adjust Pot on PSU for -20db at output  !!

may I'm wrong but tried two sides(left and right :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: kambo on September 15, 2010, 11:44:50 AM
there is a 8pin IC and a trip pot on your PSU PCB.... sort of separated from main PSU... there is a trimpot too... use that trimpot...
inject 0.775V 0db to input.... start measuring output.... turn that trimpot until you read -20db at output....

EDIT: connect + of that PSU output to your CV link point.... make sure link is off ( mono operation )... MAKE SURE YOU DONT CONNECT 24V OUTPUT TO CV LINK  ;)

EDIT 2: measure that PSU output... and play with the trimpot... you should have variable output there... you had a major problem with your PSU. hope you didnt fry your chip
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on September 23, 2010, 03:51:17 PM
For those who PM'd me regarding 2254C cal proc, write here or clean your PM boxes!!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on October 18, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Hi Igor,
i' m preparing my order at mouser for this build,
and The LOW ESR caps are expensive,
Aren't the usual suspects, panasonic FC , Nichicon KW can fit ?

I saw you used a few styroflex for your build,
and if i' remember correctly, 2254 compressor had a lot of these caps in his guts
So for a more "nevey" build, would it be better to use styro's for all small values ( 100 pF to 10nF)
than WIMA's etc... ?
Regards,
Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 18, 2010, 03:07:48 PM
For audio path, these are rated as "audio" and cheap,
I had very good experience using them in MixBuzz1, MixBuzz500, F76, etc etc:
http://il.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=en/388706.xml

For power supply bypassing, Panasonic FC can be good choice.

Suspects??? Dunno, this is not capacitor...anyway....
Mouser have big range of cheap Xicon IIRC styro'

Nevish sound like all we "used" is in the original iron+old tantallums.
Idea for startup: aged blue tantallums to keep your Neve sound always Nevish :)

Electrochronic supposed to have old Motorola 2n3055,
when I see'em, everything starts to sound better:)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on October 18, 2010, 03:27:15 PM
ok so no need to spend a lot of $$$ in the low ESR caps,
better to use the BC axial AML 138 caps for audio path,
and good to use polystyrene caps for small values ?

Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on October 18, 2010, 05:15:59 PM
Hey Igor,
i was looking at the pics of your unit,
what did you use for non audio caps ?
regards,
francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on October 18, 2010, 05:39:44 PM
Hey Igor,
i was looking at the pics of your unit,
what did you use for non audio caps ?
regards,
francois

Yep, I would like to know it !! good question.
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: muffy1975 on October 22, 2010, 05:51:01 AM
Team 2254C,

I have run into some problems with sourcing parts.

Can anyone sell me some 1n4153 diodes
( matched would be uber nice of you ).??? These are no longer stocked by Farnell or Mouser.

Can anyone tell me the part code from Farnell for the relays??? Not sure what to buy here exactly.

Any help here would be fantastic. I want to get this compressor right!!!

Michael
Oxford
England
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: daggertX on October 22, 2010, 12:07:49 PM
 relays:   single side stable non latching 2 form C I believe; in the specified voltage 24v?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on October 26, 2010, 09:00:34 AM
mouser is listing this diode
http://fr.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=512-1N483B&bdprt=1&cartid=18735959
as a replacement for 1N4153,
seems pretty close no ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 27, 2010, 01:10:27 PM
Quote
has anyone got some spare 1n4153 diodes they could sell me?

I ordered 100 of 4153 some time ago, can send 8 diodes, as one-time action,
just pay for shipping. PM.
Quote
I don't want to use the mouser replacement option unless IGOR says they are cool!

Haven't tried, however, there are people who already assembled some 2254C's, and maybe
they can try this substitute?
Quote
Is this the relay for the 2254c

http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics/fx2-d3226/relay-pcb-dpco-12vdc/dp/9913920

NO!!!!! This package has 2.54mm spacing.

Use something like:
http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics/mt2-c93402/relay-pcb-dpco-12vdc/dp/9913653

It is standard DPDT, DIP-16 relay. Just be sure it is non-latching type.


Quote
are the switches DPDT on/on types?

Yep.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on October 27, 2010, 01:22:40 PM
Igor if you really have several 1N4153,
i would be really happy to get some for my 2254C too,
You can even ship them with my mixbuzz1 and Bypass PCB order,
and i can give you a few bucks for them,
Regards,
Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 31, 2010, 09:46:27 PM
I trying to buy some thousands of 1N4153 and supply PCB's with these diodes.
If someone have an idea where to find them for reasonable cost, please PM.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on November 02, 2010, 10:11:26 AM
hello All,
I have almost finished the n2254 but  two/three bug is discoverable for me.
1 -Gain is not function properly: I have no signal change with 1 +2 +3 +4 +5 + switch and when I switch to 6th I have a level too high!!!
I tried what Igor says ;
"before clipping.
Check the reistors on gain switch; if all is fine according to schematic:
feed +10 db signal to input, crank the makeup switch till output starts to clip,
no compression (put comp threshold to +10); take a scope and check the output of
2254C
with 1k load in parallel, it should have about +26..28 DBU max undistorted
signal at its output.
Adjust second half of BA283 (output section) for minimum distortion @+27dbU,
by turning 5k trimpot located near the 2N3055.
For more info about quiescent current for Neve class A check the web."


2 nd: threshold!
when I turned to -12 dB I think it does not work! I have no compression with the threshold :( when I switch to -20 it works !

Maybe I got some problem with cables (grounds)?
Any idea ?
Thanks

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on November 02, 2010, 12:08:12 PM
hello All,
I have almost finished the n2254 but  two/three bug is discoverable for me.
1 -Gain is not function properly: I have no signal change with 1 +2 +3 +4 +5 + switch and when I switch to 6th I have a level too high!!!
I tried what Igor says ;
"before clipping.
Check the reistors on gain switch; if all is fine according to schematic:
feed +10 db signal to input, crank the makeup switch till output starts to clip,
no compression (put comp threshold to +10); take a scope and check the output of
2254C
with 1k load in parallel, it should have about +26..28 DBU max undistorted
signal at its output.
Adjust second half of BA283 (output section) for minimum distortion @+27dbU,
by turning 5k trimpot located near the 2N3055.
For more info about quiescent current for Neve class A check the web."


2 nd: threshold!
when I turned to -12 dB I think it does not work! I have no compression with the threshold :( when I switch to -20 it works !

Maybe I got some problem with cables (grounds)?
Any idea ?
Thanks



OK... it looks like wrong resistor.
Disconnect the cable going from makeup switch to main pcb, and measure
the resistance at every step. Compare with schematic.

Do same for threshold switch.

Regarding the threshold, what is the input level?

BTW, to be clear, you told about low clipping point as well and posted my answer related to this,
please don't mix different things :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: muffy1975 on November 08, 2010, 11:11:58 AM
Team,

can CHF1 and CHF2 be polyester caps? Or do they need to polystyrene caps? Can I use metalised paper caps here?

Michael
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on November 08, 2010, 05:29:34 PM
Polyester/metalised paper caps fine here as well (they setting the sidechain HPF freq. with SC HPF switch) and has no effect to audio quality.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on November 10, 2010, 12:26:26 PM
hello All,
I have almost finished the n2254 but  two/three bug is discoverable for me.
1 -Gain is not function properly: I have no signal change with 1 +2 +3 +4 +5 + switch and when I switch to 6th I have a level too high!!!
I tried what Igor says ;
"before clipping.
Check the reistors on gain switch; if all is fine according to schematic:
feed +10 db signal to input, crank the makeup switch till output starts to clip,
no compression (put comp threshold to +10); take a scope and check the output of
2254C
with 1k load in parallel, it should have about +26..28 DBU max undistorted
signal at its output.
Adjust second half of BA283 (output section) for minimum distortion @+27dbU,
by turning 5k trimpot located near the 2N3055.
For more info about quiescent current for Neve class A check the web."


2 nd: threshold!
when I turned to -12 dB I think it does not work! I have no compression with the threshold :( when I switch to -20 it works !

Maybe I got some problem with cables (grounds)?
Any idea ?
Thanks



OK... it looks like wrong resistor.
Disconnect the cable going from makeup switch to main pcb, and measure
the resistance at every step. Compare with schematic.

Do same for threshold switch.

Regarding the threshold, what is the input level?

BTW, to be clear, you told about low clipping point as well and posted my answer related to this,
please don't mix different things :)

Hi Igor,
it was not the resistors ! I checked all resistors and all resistors are right !
so, what I do guys ?


PS : listen this great sound ! Nice work mr Igor !
dry; https://files.me.com/umitceyhan/6uy0fs.wav
wet; https://files.me.com/umitceyhan/ehj16a.wav



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Grand Master Audio on November 10, 2010, 01:20:36 PM


Sounds to me you may have the wrong Loring switches in there? you sure you dont have a 2x6 rather than a 1x12?



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on November 10, 2010, 01:40:13 PM


Sounds to me you may have the wrong Loring switches in there? you sure you dont have a 2x6 rather than a 1x12?


Hi Pete,
Thanks for the reply !
I checked it too ! it's right Loring too :(
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on November 13, 2010, 11:53:55 PM
You could change out the lorlin. It may have become damaged during soldering or may be defective or something. I have had that problem before with these switches. If they get too hot, they get screwed up!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on November 14, 2010, 08:39:56 PM
The PCB's are 2OZ, and I replaced the components on these PCB's when prototyping many times....
Desoldering iron pump-gun like Hakko808 can be useful.
If you don't have desoldering gun, desoldering tape with 2 layers PCB is useless in case of Lorlin switch.

If you're not familar with 2 layer PCB de-soldering, there is a simple strategy.

Don't affraid to brake old component, save the PCB.

I.e. open the Lorlin switch; heat the pins from the PCB side and pull them out one-by-one
through the switch body, using tweeser or whatever. A pathological switch autopsy.
Music with growling vocals at background can help a lot when desoldering.

GOOD IRON IS MUST HERE, LIKE WSD80 etc, don't use "needle" head, 2....3mm tip is good choice,
at 370 deg temp., if you used 40/60 alloy. Don't affraid to use bit more of alloy and flux.
You always can clean the residue.

Than, just soak solder leftovers with desoldering tape or pump, clean with isoprop alcoghole
and solder the right switch. When cleaning, good to use toilet paper to wipe the board :)
Hm...Do you call this in English kinda "toilet humor" ?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Winetree on November 14, 2010, 11:07:33 PM
I have some N.O.S. Motorola 3055's made in the USA.  Should I use these instead of the ST 2n3055's?
Is there a sound difference?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on November 15, 2010, 04:58:52 AM
Quote
I have some N.O.S. Motorola 3055's made in the USA.  Should I use these instead of the ST 2n3055's?
Is there a sound difference?

This question should be posted out of this thread.
Of course, the sound will be more punchy, beefy, cruncny and all possible BS.

Here is the build/support thread.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on November 15, 2010, 02:19:01 PM
The PCB's are 2OZ, and I replaced the components on these PCB's when prototyping many times....
Desoldering iron pump-gun like Hakko808 can be useful.
If you don't have desoldering gun, desoldering tape with 2 layers PCB is useless in case of Lorlin switch.

If you're not familar with 2 layer PCB de-soldering, there is a simple strategy.

Don't affraid to brake old component, save the PCB.

I.e. open the Lorlin switch; heat the pins from the PCB side and pull them out one-by-one
through the switch body, using tweeser or whatever. A pathological switch autopsy.
Music with growling vocals at background can help a lot when desoldering.

GOOD IRON IS MUST HERE, LIKE WSD80 etc, don't use "needle" head, 2....3mm tip is good choice,
at 370 deg temp., if you used 40/60 alloy. Don't affraid to use bit more of alloy and flux.
You always can clean the residue.

Than, just soak solder leftovers with desoldering tape or pump, clean with isoprop alcoghole
and solder the right switch. When cleaning, good to use toilet paper to wipe the board :)
Hm...Do you call this in English kinda "toilet humor" ?

Hi Igor,
Thanks for the reply sir :)
I have already changed the "gain lorlin switch"and  got same problem :( so I would like to get some nice switches from Colin -->http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/LO-03-001_extended_info.html

Did you try them ?
Thanks !
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on December 08, 2010, 05:31:44 PM
Bump!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on December 09, 2010, 02:40:33 PM
Quote
I have already changed the "gain lorlin switch"and  got same problem

Please clarify what is the problem, let's try to fix it together.
IIRC, the Lorlin switches were 2x6 instead of 1x12, right? So, you replaced them AND?....
Please more info!

Regarding the switches from Audiomaintenance: check they have round, not "shaved" at one side shaft.
In general, should work fine.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on December 09, 2010, 04:26:15 PM
Quote
I have already changed the "gain lorlin switch"and  got same problem

Please clarify what is the problem, let's try to fix it together.
IIRC, the Lorlin switches were 2x6 instead of 1x12, right? So, you replaced them AND?....
Please more info!

Regarding the switches from Audiomaintenance: check they have round, not "shaved" at one side shaft.
In general, should work fine.

Hi Igor,
I changed them but I'm not sure that the lorlins was right or they had some buggy ! I want to finih this project because I loved what I heard like the sound that they got ! and what you build ! Great job !

What do you think about this error Igor? R47 may wrong V ? or wires connection problem ? or PSU problem?
If you have an idea for helping me :) I will try to find the problem ! but I'm not hardware engineer so I am searching the problem slowly and everywhere :))))))
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: muffy1975 on December 14, 2010, 09:10:05 AM
Hi team,

more cap questions.

Can I use 0.1uf 63v polyester box caps in place of the 0.1uf ceramic caps that are needed around the circuit or will this effect the quality of the unit?

Can the 47uf tantalum on the control panel be replaced with an electrolytic cap of the same value? What does this particular cap do?

Many thanks in advance  :D

Michael
Oxford
England

ps my 2nd 2254c PCB has arrived. Joy of Joy. Will complete the 2nd ( part of a stereo ) unit early next year. One at a time. ;D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on January 11, 2011, 08:50:18 PM
Heya! Slowly making progress on this thing. Had to take a DIY break for a bit, but now, its on!

Anyways, I was in an electronics store a couple of days ago looking for some BC214's for this build, and they suggested a 2n2907 as a replacement. Anyone know if it will work?


Ryan
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on January 21, 2011, 05:24:01 PM
Frank (Electrochronic) supposed to have BC214's, if this is still relevant....

Quote
Can I use 0.1uf 63v polyester box caps in place of the 0.1uf ceramic caps that are needed around the circuit or will this effect the quality of the unit?

Why not... Polyesters will work fine. Anyway, ceramic X7R IMHO are the best choice for power supply bypassing.

Quote
Can the 47uf tantalum on the control panel be replaced with an electrolytic cap of the same value? What does this particular cap do?

Used for A1/A2 time constants. Low leakage low ESR electrolytic cap should work as well.
Quote
Hi Igor,
I changed them but I'm not sure that the lorlins was right or they had some buggy ! I want to finih this project because I loved what I heard like the sound that they got ! and what you build ! Great job !

Something is wrong with resistors.
Let's do next. Take 2 wires and 2 crocodile clips.
Disconnect MKUP connector from control PCB .
Solder wires to MKUP (Molex 2 pin connector) at the PCB side on control PCB.
Connect wires with crocodiles to multimeter, OHM, 20k range.
Pass on every step and write this down to paper...see the schematic....probably you will
find out wrong resistor, bad contact or broken trace.

Same for com_threshold switch, solder wires on pins 1-2 of THR' connector.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on January 27, 2011, 08:16:52 PM

Quote
Hi Igor,
I changed them but I'm not sure that the lorlins was right or they had some buggy ! I want to finih this project because I loved what I heard like the sound that they got ! and what you build ! Great job !

Something is wrong with resistors.
Let's do next. Take 2 wires and 2 crocodile clips.
Disconnect MKUP connector from control PCB .
Solder wires to MKUP (Molex 2 pin connector) at the PCB side on control PCB.
Connect wires with crocodiles to multimeter, OHM, 20k range.
Pass on every step and write this down to paper...see the schematic....probably you will
find out wrong resistor, bad contact or broken trace.

Same for com_threshold switch, solder wires on pins 1-2 of THR' connector.



Hi Igor,
I did it ,
1-1M
2-78k
3-76k5
4-75k8
5-75k5
6-75k4
7-75k2
8-209k
9-160r
10-127r
11-125r
Strange ! when I measure the resistor out of main board PCB(with out any connection) they have right value ! but when I measure with this way
"Let's do next. Take 2 wires and 2 crocodile clips.
Disconnect MKUP connector from control PCB .
Solder wires to MKUP (Molex 2 pin connector) at the PCB side on control PCB." they are wrong?
what do you think ? I have to change all resistors( Mkup side) or may I got a big problem :)
Thanks,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on January 30, 2011, 05:37:37 AM
Quote
when I measure the resistor out of main board PCB(with out any connection) they have right value !
Something is wrong with Ohm's law than...
Quote
1-1M
2-78k
3-76k5
4-75k8
5-75k5
6-75k4
7-75k2
8-209k<---!!!!<---strange!!!
9-160r
10-127r
11-125r
First, you mean com_mkup switch, right? (by values, it should be).
OK than... Actually it should measure from CCW (11th pos) to CW (1st pos)
something like: 100R-127R-160R-211R-286R-396R-.....-3306r-1MEG

Check all the traces, BUT I think there's some K values used instead of Ohms...

Logic is absolutely missing here, BTW. I suppose, somehow 8th pos is 209R,
this way, just replace 75K resistor to 75 OHM...should work;
something strange with 10th and 11th pos, should be
10th 127R
11th 100R
but this is less important for now.
Please check resistor supposed to be 75 OHM....and, maybe, replace, depending on result :)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on January 30, 2011, 10:45:38 AM
First, you mean com_mkup switch, right? (by values, it should be).
OK than... Actually it should measure from CCW (11th pos) to CW (1st pos)
something like: 100R-127R-160R-211R-286R-396R-.....-3306r-1MEG

Check all the traces, BUT I think there's some K values used instead of Ohms...

Logic is absolutely missing here, BTW. I suppose, somehow 8th pos is 209R,
this way, just replace 75K resistor to 75 OHM...should work;
something strange with 10th and 11th pos, should be
10th 127R
11th 100R
but this is less important for now.
Please check resistor supposed to be 75 OHM....and, maybe, replace, depending on result :)



B-I-N-G-O

B-I-N-G-O

B-I-N-G-O
Yes, It was 75K :( how I didn't see it !!!! sh***tttttt/f***ck ! so I soldered 75R and it works ! yalla :)
Thanks Igor! you are the SIR  !
Best regards !
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on January 30, 2011, 07:22:08 PM
MMMM...Thank YOU for patience and carefully checking the resistors :)
As you see, I did nothing. Now, to com_threshold switch?
;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on January 31, 2011, 09:29:49 AM
MMMM...Thank YOU for patience and carefully checking the resistors :)
As you see, I did nothing. Now, to com_threshold switch?
;)

Thanks Igor for the support !
Make up is working now ! trshld had  bad lorlin :( I changed the lorlin and trshld works too :)
Great ! I am happy :)))
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 01, 2011, 02:38:10 PM
Well, this makes me happy too :)
Pass the test procedure - even if already done - just to be at save point, again, tell us about sound, enjoy!
This week, can dedicate more time to support threads etc, let's move to fix your MixBuzz1?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on February 01, 2011, 05:48:01 PM
Well, this makes me happy too :)
Pass the test procedure - even if already done - just to be at save point, again, tell us about sound, enjoy!
This week, can dedicate more time to support threads etc, let's move to fix your MixBuzz1?

Thanks again !
I'm ready to go :)
Cheers,

PS : I'll post some new 2254Cs picture :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 07, 2011, 08:08:13 AM
So.... I checked, notifications on MixBuzz1 build thread are On, when you write here, I will know it :)
(Sorry for OT)

Guys, how's your 2254C build progress going on? Now have more time to forum stuff, so...use it!
:)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on February 07, 2011, 10:08:58 AM
So.... I checked, notifications on MixBuzz1 build thread are On, when you write here, I will know it :)
(Sorry for OT)

Guys, how's your 2254C build progress going on? Now have more time to forum stuff, so...use it!
:)

I changed the Vu meters :) and knobs :)
it works and love it ! Thanks Mr Igor

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-6.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-5.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-4.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-3.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-2.jpg)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/-1.jpg)




Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 09, 2011, 07:21:34 AM
Hurray!!!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on February 09, 2011, 11:23:46 AM
Looking great Jandoste!

I wish mine looked like that - I've been using it for almost a year with no case at all, just screwed onto a piece of wood! hahha  I'll have to post a picture ;D

Can't take it out of the studio, even to put it in a case - it sounds too good.

I've used my 2254c on a bunch of mixes, found it really useful so far. My favourite DIY compressor. A few tracks i've used it on should be released in the near future - I'll try to post some links!

I actually just delivered the a final mix tonight - I was using it on my INST bus (all instruments, i.e. everything that isn't drums or vocals) - really works well to glue things together. I need to make more!!

Thanks IGOR!!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on February 09, 2011, 12:05:39 PM
Looking great Jandoste!

I wish mine looked like that - I've been using it for almost a year with no case at all, just screwed onto a piece of wood! hahha  I'll have to post a picture ;D

Can't take it out of the studio, even to put it in a case - it sounds too good.

I've used my 2254c on a bunch of mixes, found it really useful so far. My favourite DIY compressor. A few tracks i've used it on should be released in the near future - I'll try to post some links!

I actually just delivered the a final mix tonight - I was using it on my INST bus (all instruments, i.e. everything that isn't drums or vocals) - really works well to glue things together. I need to make more!!

Thanks IGOR!!!

Thanks Igor & Haima
I have never get the 2254C's sound with any hardware/software :) I'm so happy with this baby ! and hope I'll build  + four :)
Thanks Igor ! I use my 2254C for vocal/ drum/guitar/ Piano/ etc etc !
cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 09, 2011, 12:10:06 PM
Yep. Classics with a bit simplified assembly.
Should sound good, when done with good components and assembled by good hands with love :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on February 11, 2011, 11:25:13 AM
I have a lot of extra 1n4153's that I just got in the mail if anyone needs them. The issue is, I am not entirely sure that they are 1n4153's. They are orange with a blue band around them. They are fatter than 1n4148's, but look very similar. My main concern is the measurement. I have measured 50 of them so far, and they all measure between 0.593 and 0.598 on my DMM's diode test function. Could be my DMM sucks (it was cheap), so I am going to borrow my buddies fluke to see if things change.

If they are the real deal, then I have a lot of extras! If you need 1n4153's, I can send you some once i have confirmed that they are good.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 12, 2011, 07:48:50 PM
That's good! My 1n4153's measuring 0.730 ....  0.770 with workbench Flike, btw, but the current can be different.
The idea is to match diodes by current @ say 0.5 and 0.05 ma. I wrote here about test jig (5V supply, 1k and 10k, switch).
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Insomniaclown on February 13, 2011, 02:31:06 PM
That's good! My 1n4153's measuring 0.730 ....  0.770 with workbench Flike, btw, but the current can be different.
The idea is to match diodes by current @ say 0.5 and 0.05 ma. I wrote here about test jig (5V supply, 1k and 10k, switch).

Cool igor. I will look for that test jig and set it up on my breadboard. Re-tested with a fluke, and they are all measuring the same. Anyways, I'll retest on the jig.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: DAN_000 on February 23, 2011, 01:20:39 PM
I finished 2254c today,   a few ground issue related to output pins, marked 1=hot 2=gnd 3=cold on board (I used standard xlr pinout on this)   then i discover my mistake and everything is ok. Not hum at all.

The sound is BEST !!!  Im really happy with this.  This type of compression and sonic character was I looking for a long time.
Congratulations Igor !
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on February 23, 2011, 05:24:25 PM
The 2254c sounds great doesn't it!

Glad you got it working DAN_00  ;)

And Igor, can't thank you enough for this great project - I better buy some more boards before the good word spreads further and you run out!

Haima
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 27, 2011, 06:58:16 PM
Cool!!!!!!!
Happy to know about another working unit! Have a fun, dude!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on March 02, 2011, 06:56:26 AM
hey
thinking to get a 2254 "Gun-pressor" (  ::)  )
checked many pages ,docs , etc....
(to see if i can make it by myself...)
but , for some "doubt" i have not more found the answer ,like :
(excuse me if i ask here)

in the bom doc i found some resistor part signed in this way:
R'11
R"10
R3"
(almost all 2% MF 0,25w)
then the symbols : '
and : "

indicate a particular type of resistor , like:
0,1% or 0,01% , "flame retardant" etc.... ,
or all resistor can be standard type (1-2% 0,25w..) ?
peace

ps
question is why
on some image about finished 2254c
i see different type of resistor placed
("mainboard" and "controls board")
.



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on March 02, 2011, 07:31:25 AM

 all resistor can be standard type (1-2% 0,25w..) ?



Yes, that's it !

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on March 03, 2011, 08:50:45 AM

I soldered like that.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/jandoste/pcb_fp_top.gif)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on March 03, 2011, 12:51:10 PM
Thanks "Jandoste" !
you done correct part placement ,
(sorry , probably i explained evil)

but at the rear/back of pcb (solder side)
the holes are very very close
(resistors "meet point")
for example between the 33ohm and 51ohm resistors (com-mkup)
the holes/plots  , seem united (so close)
(see image attached)
then also the other resistors "meet points" can be united,
or have to be separated ?

peace
(all over)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on March 03, 2011, 01:02:29 PM
Thanks "Jandoste" !

or have to be separated ?


you have to solder them vertically :) yeah, they are so close but...
if you are in EU you can send me and I'll solder them like a soldier :)
with pleasure !
Cheers,
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on March 03, 2011, 01:52:29 PM
thanks "Jandoste"!
really kind of you,
unfotunately i have not yet taken pcb ...
for my pockets this project is a little expensive...
for now , i'm tryin to "understand" the project ,
and check if i may be able to "make" it .

peace  :)
(all over)

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on March 03, 2011, 01:59:37 PM
you're wellcome :) I love the 2254c and I will build more... AWESOME ! 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on March 08, 2011, 06:07:28 AM

...found and posted -1
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on March 08, 2011, 06:08:26 AM

...found and posted -2

peace
(all over)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: muffy1975 on March 08, 2011, 05:12:23 PM
IGOR,

just finished my first 2254c. Worked 1st time just likely the Sontec EQ.

Thankyou ever so much for giving the DIY community some quality/service and most of all......

AWESOME, QUIET and BEAUTIFUL SOUNDING GEAR


regards

michael de A
oxford
englend
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: muffy1975 on March 09, 2011, 04:15:55 AM
team,

i was wondering what each of the trimpots do?

RV1 changes the bias
RV2 ????      ( um....is this the ouptut gain )
RV3 ?????     ( is this the meter trimpot )
RV4 ??????   ( maybe this is the one marked gain????? near the input transformer )
RV5 ????      ( is this the output gain aswell hahahaha )

In particular, what does the Gain trimpot do ( the one that has no RV designation )???

What I'm getting at is that I'm so unsure as how to set up a mono 2254c at the moment. It sounds great as is, however the St7 is behaving slightly strangely. I have unity gain when the compressor is IN ( with no makeup etc ) but it does seem to be compressing slightly with the threshold fully clockwise.........


Any help would be appreciated even though I am loving the sound of this box already  ;D

Michael de A
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on March 09, 2011, 05:10:30 AM
Sounds cool doesn't it?  :)

Have you tried searching this thread? - i'm sure we've covered calibration... I know, because i've calibrated mine!  ;D

TIP: click on the "print" link on the right top/bottom of the page - then you can search every page using the command+F or control+F function.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on March 15, 2011, 06:13:14 AM
hi guys,
i'm still struggling to find some 1N4153,
but i have some old neve diodes,BAX13
OA202 and AA144,
can i replace the 1N4153 by one those reference ?
regards,
francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: canidoit on May 11, 2011, 10:18:17 PM
I am considering doing this build.

Can someone please tell me the following to help me with my decision?
- Does this have the oscillation issue that the 33609 build is known for? I would like to use this unit for mastering also.
- Does this have any meters issues, like I have read regarding the Sifam AL19 on the 33609?
- Are there any alternative VU meters I can use which require little mods to it, like are any of Hairballs meters work on this?
- When Igor sais it is a simple version of the 33609, does he mean that this is a 33609 without the limiter or has he changed the 33609 somewhat? eg. So it would be like buying a Lamborghini, and the simplified Lamborghini version would be a volkswagon buggy with a Lamborghini shell?
- I have read that people are struggling to find certain parts, does this problem still occur now and if so, which parts are they?
- Which would you consider building for mix bus and maybe mastering purposes - the 2254 hybrid build or the 33609 build? Please explain why  :)

Thank you!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on May 11, 2011, 10:32:47 PM
I am considering doing this build.

Can someone please tell me the following to help me with my decision?
- Does this have the oscillation issue that the 33609 build is known for? I would like to use this unit for mastering also.

Not that i'm aware - my unit doesn't oscillate and I haven't heard of anyone else's doing that either.

- Does this have any meters issues, like I have read regarding the Sifam AL19 on the 33609?
- Are there any alternative VU meters I can use which require little mods to it, like are any of Hairballs meters work on this?

Hairball has meters that work with this project - and they are pretty cheap.

- When Igor sais it is a simple version of the 33609, does he mean that this is a 33609 without the limiter or has he changed the 33609 somewhat? eg. So it would be like buying a Lamborghini, and the simplified Lamborghini version would be a volkswagon buggy with a Lamborghini shell?

He has removed the limiter and re-used the front panel space for a sidechain high pass filter and attack control - both of which are very useful IMHO. He's changed the output amp to a single ended class A neve, like the output section of the 1073 etc - sounds good to me. He's changed the switches to be easier to find and cheaper - i've not had any problems with this. You may want to change the steps to be less coarse for very serious mastering... but for basic mastering you'll probably be fine stock.

- I have read that people are struggling to find certain parts, does this problem still occur now and if so, which parts are they?

I had no problems getting parts from mouser. I think Igor includes some matched diodes - which was probably the only tricky bit.

- Which would you consider building for mix bus and maybe mastering purposes - the 2254 hybrid build or the 33609 build? Please explain why  :)

the 2254 is awesome, and easy to build. my favorite DIY compressor - i like it a lot on all kinds of signals and subgroups - and if i wanted to compress the mix bus i would use the 2254. I don't think there's much reason to consider the old 33609.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Biasrocks on May 11, 2011, 10:35:38 PM
hi guys,
i'm still struggling to find some 1N4153,
but i have some old neve diodes,BAX13
OA202 and AA144,
can i replace the 1N4153 by one those reference ?
regards,
francois

As I understand it, the 1N4153 is a tighter tolerance version of the 1N4148. I would suggest replacing with those as opposed to your other choices. You may have to sort through a few more to find a match.

1N4148   150mA Iout, 75V Vrrm Fast Recovery Rectifier Operational temperature range from 0°C to 200°C.
1N4153   150mA Iout, 75V Vrrm Fast Recovery Rectifier Operational temperature range from 0°C to 200°C.

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/fairchild/1N4153.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/fairchild/1N4148.pdf

Mark
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Biasrocks on May 11, 2011, 11:32:34 PM
Can someone please tell me the following to help me with my decision?
- Does this have the oscillation issue that the 33609 build is known for? I would like to use this unit for mastering also.

It's not know for oscillating. Never encountered that problem on my build. If you're talking about the guy that kept bugging Igor about distortion on the build thread. Let's just say you'd never use the extreme settings that he was using to demonstrate the problem.

Quote
- When Igor sais it is a simple version of the 33609, does he mean that this is a 33609 without the limiter or has he changed the 33609 somewhat? eg. So it would be like buying a Lamborghini, and the simplified Lamborghini version would be a volkswagon buggy with a Lamborghini shell?

The limiter is left out of the 2254 because it requires another expensive transformer, the 33609 however does not have this problem.

Quote
- Which would you consider building for mix bus and maybe mastering purposes - the 2254 hybrid build or the 33609 build? Please explain why  :)

33609 is more versatile IMO, especially since this project lacks the limiter section. But you do gain a variable attack control not present on the 33609.

But, if you're looking for transparent, look elsewhere.

Mark
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: canidoit on May 12, 2011, 12:32:02 AM
Thanks guys :)

Hairball has meters that work with this project - and they are pretty cheap.
Haima, do you know which VU model it is? I looked through all the VU Hairball has and he hasn't written anywhere, AL19 substitute or equivalent from what I can see.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on May 12, 2011, 07:36:38 AM
the following two meters should work:

http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=64 (http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=64)
http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=61 (http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=61)

see this thread:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28923.660 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28923.660)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: dmp on May 12, 2011, 09:52:08 AM
Quote
Can someone please tell me the following to help me with my decision?
- Does this have the oscillation issue that the 33609 build is known for? I would like to use this unit for mastering also.
My 33609 build is great. It doesn't have problems if it is built correctly, to my knowledge. I lent my unit to a studio for the past month and they gave it high marks. They commented that it was easy to use and easy to make sound right. They were using it side by side with an original metal knob 33609 and found them to sound and behave almost exactly the same. I think the idea that the 33609 project has problems should be put to rest. 
That said, I wouldn't think it is particularly suited for mastering use, as it isn't transparent, in my experience. Even for mixbus compression it has it's own character.
I'm just starting a build of the 2254, so I can't say if it would be better or not. I'm building both, that is what I recommend  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: mbdonna on May 30, 2011, 11:31:17 AM
Thanks to Igor and all you guys for sharing all this precious information on these pages!

Just following your posts and Reanimator's guide, assembling my unit has been a pleasure, with no troubles at all.
Only the power supply is not completed yet,  the toroid still has to come, so I used an AMS rack PSU  to test the unit.

The important thing is that, connected yesterday IT WORKS FINE!! and I'm very HAPPY!!

My 2254c has Carnhill transformers, the aluminum case and frontface are from Grand Master Audio and the VUs are the Hairballs,
I hope you like it.
I need to find some Marconi knobs soon, finish the PSU and calibrate it and that's it ..a DREAM.

Thanks to Igor and all of you again!!
Max ;D
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/mbdonna/2254c05.jpg)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 18, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Woa. Cool! Congrats! Thanks again to Reanimator!
Passed test pro, all fine?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on July 25, 2011, 04:29:31 PM
Greetings Folks,
A little help, please.  I am working on one of these 2254's assembled by a friend that doesn't work quite properly.  First, I believe that the input trans is wired backwards.  The input trans should be a step-down transformer, right, with a loss of 6 dB, and the interstage a step-up, with a gain of 6 dB?

Second problem, even with the input trans backwards, and adding 6 dB rather than cutting 6 dB, I cannot get the unit to unity gain, even when I ground the control voltage test point.

Any ideas will be appreciated!

Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 25, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
Quote
I am working on one of these 2254's assembled by a friend that doesn't work quite properly. 

Ohho))) Who doesn't work properly, friend or compressor?)))
Now, without certain degree of black humour: good luck, and let's fix'em both!

Quote
First, I believe that the input trans is wired backwards.  The input trans should be a step-down transformer, right, with a loss of 6 dB, and the interstage a step-up, with a gain of 6 dB?

Exactly. Which trafos are used?

Quote
Second problem, even with the input trans backwards, and adding 6 dB rather than cutting 6 dB, I cannot get the unit to unity gain, even when I ground the control voltage test point.

Easiest way, FIRST, check every possible resistor/capacitor/wire/etc. Than, check what is the signal amplitude after interstage trafo.
Measure with DC voltmeter right at input trafo's secondary, do not refer to GND.
Check the out trafo wiring as well. Than, ground CV signal and get audio working properly.

In general, after the input traf, there's -6.5 db (add trafo loss); after the interstage traf, should be -25...26db; at collector of 2N3055, should be -3.8db, if we take input/output zero db between pins 2/3 of XLR's as reference.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on July 25, 2011, 05:19:20 PM
Quote
I am working on one of these 2254's assembled by a friend that doesn't work quite properly. 

Ohho))) Who doesn't work properly, friend or compressor?)))
Now, without certain degree of black humour: good luck, and let's fix'em both!

Quote
First, I believe that the input trans is wired backwards.  The input trans should be a step-down transformer, right, with a loss of 6 dB, and the interstage a step-up, with a gain of 6 dB?

Exactly. Which trafos are used?

Quote
Second problem, even with the input trans backwards, and adding 6 dB rather than cutting 6 dB, I cannot get the unit to unity gain, even when I ground the control voltage test point.

Easiest way, FIRST, check every possible resistor/capacitor/wire/etc. Than, check what is the signal amplitude after interstage trafo.
Measure with DC voltmeter right at input trafo's secondary, do not refer to GND.
Check the out trafo wiring as well. Than, ground CV signal and get audio working properly.

In general, after the input traf, there's -6.5 db (add trafo loss); after the interstage traf, should be -25...26db; at collector of 2N3055, should be -3.8db, if we take input/output zero db between pins 2/3 of XLR's as reference.

Thanks Igor,
Maybe it is I that is not working properly ;-)
The transformers are Carnhill, and right now I'm getting about a 6 dB boost from the input, which is wrong.  Assuming an input level of 0.775 VRMS (0 dBr) into the input transformer primary, I should expect about -25, -26 dBr at the secondary of the interstage trans, but what level should I expect to see at the junction of R27 & R64 of the B193.112 block?
Just trying to work forward.
Thanks in advance for your time and brain power!
Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on July 26, 2011, 06:40:02 PM
OK, so I've gone through all the parts values, and can't find a problem, but still about 10 dB down.  Next question, how much should the gain trimmer "trim"?  I can only get about a 3 dB "swing" using the trim pot.  Is this right?
Thanks in advance!
Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 26, 2011, 09:13:16 PM
Quote
Maybe it is I that is not working properly ;-)

No way. If you found mistake, everything is on right way to get nice sounding compressor)))))

Quote
I should expect about -25, -26 dBr at the secondary of the interstage trans, but what level should I expect to see at the junction of R27 & R64 of the B193.112 block?

Really: dunno!  ;D
Have to check myself with working unit. Too lazy to calculate. Logically:
Output stage with no makeup IIRC should have 15db of gain, THUS,  -15dbr at this junction.
Sure point to check:
Check for -26 dbr (using our dbr slang :) at TP_C by schemo.

Another quick check, push the unit with say 3...5V RMS input signal, and crank MAKEUP.
You should have /after trimming symmetry into 600 Ohm load with RV1, 5k/ at least 25 [email protected] ohm of undistorted output.
This is the check for amp. stages.
Quote
OK, so I've gone through all the parts values, and can't find a problem, but still about 10 dB down.  Next question, how much should the gain trimmer "trim"?  I can only get about a 3 dB "swing" using the trim pot.  Is this right?

Yes, that's right, the range of this trimpot is about 3 db.

Possible to change R''19 at BA183.112 block to say 430R, but the unit will work wrong.

OK... BTW, did you put the reversed trafo correct way?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on July 27, 2011, 12:21:57 PM
Thanks for your help! This is a great place to learn!
I usually design/steal and build mic preamps, and this is my first endeavor into this type of compressor.

I checked all of the components in the audio chain, and they seem OK

Here are some signal voltages to consider:

CV test point grounded
Gain trim pot all the way up (max gain)
Makeup gain set at "0" (1M feedback resistor)

Across input trans primary 0.775V, 0 dB
Across input trans secondary 0.355V, -6.7 dB
Across interstage trans primary 0.0195V, -32 dB
Across interstage trans secondary 0.036V, -27.4 dB
Point P of B183.112 (output of that section) 0.33V, -7.4 dB
Junction of R64 and R27 0.075V, -21.8 dB (this seems odd)
Point F of B183.110 (output meter) 0.145V, -14.6 dB
Across the Carnhill output trans secondary 0.23V, -10.5 dB

Other odd things:
The makeup gain switch will add only about 14 dB of gain from the "0" position (1M feedback) to the "20" position (100R feedback)
The output section will only put out about +19 dB (ref 0.775V) before distortion, but it doesn't 'square off" like I'm used to seeing this type of circuit do.  The trailing edge on the positive going sine wave is distorted.
I set up the output bias by measuring 4.7 VDC across R7 with no signal applied.

Both channels act the same way

Thanks in advance!

Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on July 27, 2011, 05:50:16 PM
OK, this problem SOLVED !!
The curse of the multiplier!
C2'' in the output section was 220nF.  Should have been 220pF.
Output is now +28 dBm just before clipping, and the makeup gain switch adds 2 dB per click.
Large beer tonight!
Calibration starts tomorrow!
Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on July 30, 2011, 01:39:20 PM
Hurray!!!! Cool than, write something about how does calibration passed etc!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: mylesgm on August 22, 2011, 06:10:15 AM
Hi Igor,

Installing Belclere tf10016 in input position but I'm not sure where the primaries are on the tx?  which side has three terminals and which side has four?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: bruno2000 on August 22, 2011, 12:04:07 PM
Hurray!!!! Cool than, write something about how does calibration passed etc!

OK, calibration went very well, although I had to add some resistors to the meters to make them work properly.  Even though it took a long time, having the ability to plot Vin vs. Vout with both channels running was a GIANT benefit, and I was able to get the two channels to track together within about 0.2 dB throughout the compression curves.
BTW this compressor sounds WONDERFUL.
Thank you Igor!
Best,
Bruno2000
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 22, 2011, 01:02:51 PM
@ mylesgm :

Pinout for 10015/16, PIN SIDE VIEW:
--------
[4---8]
[3---7]
[2---6]
[1---X]
--------

X = NO PIN.

In other words, for 10016, 6 is shield, 7-8 is 10k (input for audio signal); 1,2,3,4 is output to diode bridge.

bruno2000 : happy to hear these news! Enjoy and make music!!!! When you release platinum disc?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: mylesgm on September 01, 2011, 08:03:36 PM
and the pin configuration for tf10015?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on September 20, 2011, 03:21:06 PM
hi guys !
i'm finishing my 2254C , tried to calibrate it,
but while testing it, i noticed i have some strange noises wich appears periodically,
i've verified everything and couldn't find any wrong components,
i am suspecting a bad cap or bad 2N3055,
is there a way i can investigate or test things to troubleshoot this ?
i've verified all groundings, PSU , mainboards etc...
any help would be greatly appreciated,
regards,
Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jandoste on September 20, 2011, 05:21:18 PM
Salut François,
If I remember that check twice R47 resistor and you need to fine out right Value with it too...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on September 20, 2011, 06:04:28 PM
Quote
i noticed i have some strange noises wich appears periodically,
Me too. Aliens coming. (gah, just kidding!)
BTW, watched excellent movie, Attack The Block. IIRC same guy who did Shawn Of The Dead and Hot Fuzz.
Not attractive as Six Shooter, but good. Recommended. Well, back to our aliens.
Let's fix it.
I assume there are scope, oscillator and multimeter. Need 'em for calibration.
Description about the noise will help a lot.
In general. Check all solder joints, part's values, connections, etc.
Power supply.
Check the voltage at big cap right after rectifier; check voltage at power supply output;
hope all is up and kosher. No voltage fluctuations etc. 30...37V before LM317, 24.00V after LM317.
Than, check the control voltage point TP_CV with scope.
If nothing suspicious, next.
Measure the voltages at R42, R28, R9, R43, R44 ref to gnd.
If nothing suspicious...dunno, have to sleep on this.
Well...just some attention and you here.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on September 20, 2011, 06:10:28 PM
and the pin configuration for tf10015?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ChrisPbass on October 09, 2011, 07:57:06 PM
Hi everyone, just designing my front panel for this and have a couple of questions about labelling based on what I believe is Perusha's case design used by a fair few. I don't have a schematic to hand so could do with this double checking please.

1. On HPF toggle switch, is 'up' HPF IN and 'down' is HPF bypass?

2. On threshold toggle switch, what does NOR stand for (normal?) and I've noticed on the modern Neve version, threshold is variable from 0 to +10 dbu, so does the switch just take us from 0, to an additional +10 setting?

3. On bypass toggle switch, 'up' is comp in (led off), 'down' is bypass (led on), or does led light up to the opposite to this?

4. Threshold rotary settings in dBu as per neve?

Any help much appreciated :)
cheers
Chris
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on October 26, 2011, 01:38:32 PM
http://ij-audio.com/downloads/2254c_front_meter_coreldraw.zip
You can open Corel file in AI as well. All fonts are saved as curves.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on November 07, 2011, 04:36:29 AM
Anybody need a help here?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on December 09, 2011, 11:30:55 AM
Hello
i'm looking for parts at local various parts supplyers
also to know a little how the project would cost me ,
in the bom list (see attached image)
i see some "symbol" in the parts description
like :  , ' , r , R , etc..
please these symbols refer to particular types of components ?

peace !
r2d2
Anybody need a help here?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ChrisPbass on December 09, 2011, 11:33:56 PM
Hello
i'm looking for parts at local various parts supplyers
also to know a little how the project would cost me ,
in the bom list (see attached image)
i see some "symbol" in the parts description
like :  , ' , r , R , etc..
please these symbols refer to particular types of components ?

peace !
r2d2
Anybody need a help here?

'r' and 'R' is a shorthand way of specifying ohms for resistors...33r is the same as 33ohms. A standard keyboard doesn't have an omega symbol on anyway, so 'r' much more convenient. If a value has a decimal point, i.e 4.7 ohms, then it is usually written as 4r7 instead of 4.7r. This is true also when using 'K' as a multiplier, i.e 4700 ohms = 4700r = 4.7K = 4K7 and also when using 'M' (meg) for a multiplier of 1 million.

R' and R" is just Igor's convention for these particular resistors! R'17 is not the same part as R"17 so just treat them as individuals :)

Hope that helps a bit?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: earl on December 19, 2011, 08:50:38 AM
just about ready to let the smoke out of this thing weighs about 50 lbs hmm feels like it oughta work...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on December 26, 2011, 10:39:00 PM
merry christmas everyone! is not anymore but still... happy days to u all!

anyways back to it. i was wondering

1- if anyone has built one of these with cinemag trannies... :) would be nice to know because i like the sound of those very much!.

2-also.. if i am looking for a transformer in cinemag .. for interstage and input transformers.. do i need mic in or line in? i have also read about it here but its somehow confusing (im real sorry maybe this is all implicit but im not sure what im looking for) . i am waiting still for the pcb and kit parts ! hehe merry christmas to me too!!  *ahm.. thanks igor u rock!

http://www.cinemag.biz/line_input/line_input.html
http://www.cinemag.biz/output/output.html
http://cinemag.biz/mic_input/mic_input.html

can i use this as line out? http://www.cinemag.biz/line_input/CMOL-3x600T2.pdf

3-im not very literate on transformers as u may have already figured out yourselves :D .. so i have read the entire thread .. i seen a couple of mentions about 25-30VA toroid for power tx. is this only with one primary or dual primary ? like is 15-0-15 ok? or .. sorry about redundance in question (i know its been asked before) i wanna be sure before ordering!

-now for the PS.. does it have to be grounded with metalic standoffs? i read somewhere it needs to be hooked up from the middle of the pcb to make some grounding on Tx. just wanna check this also.

thank you very much in advance!
i hope u all had wonderful times with your family and have lovely new year!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on January 05, 2012, 01:39:18 AM
Hello! Just tryin to bump this... distraction is advisable. If anyone can help me pointing me towards right direction about these trannys i would really apreciate it.

Thanks a lot yall .. I hope u guys have a good year

EDIT: if what i asked is just plain stupid please tell me .. ill keep re-reading untill something clicks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on January 17, 2012, 07:07:33 PM
Hi,

When I do a search for 1N4153 diode, the 1N4454 keeps comming up... ???
And some sites are showing the 4153 as "discontinued".

Anyone know if 1N4454 diode is an acceptable replacement for the 1N4153?
Specs seam close but not exactly the same.






Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on January 23, 2012, 12:19:33 PM
Hi,

When I do a search for 1N4153 diode, the 1N4454 keeps comming up... ???
And some sites are showing the 4153 as "discontinued".

Anyone know if 1N4454 diode is an acceptable replacement for the 1N4153?
Specs seam close but not exactly the same.


Never tried 1N4454. You can match them by 2 Vf points, like we do, (say, 5V, 1k and 10k, dpdt switch, IC socket and 4+ digits multimeter) and try.
First, lower current, second, higher current (due to heating of diode). They have to be at same temperature, use tweezer, not hands.
I posted the procedure here, just dig some pages back...
Statistically, need 20 diodes from same batch to get 8 of them matched, or about 200 diodes to make 20 matched eights.
We still have some matched eights of 1N4153 in stock.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on January 25, 2012, 06:55:46 PM
Thanks Igor,

BTW, should the eight 4153 that came with kit be matched?
I verified them, (using diode setting on my meter) and  they all seem very close except one of them seems a little off...

(For measument can I use diode setting on my multimeter. It has 2 digit accuracy. Or should I use your method?


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: dakiniz on January 27, 2012, 12:36:05 PM
Hello,

I finished my first DIY project.
It sounded so good that I was satisfied.
Thanks Igor.

However, after I played with it for few hours, I felt 2dB steps of make-up and threshold were too big for me.
Also, I want to replace the recovery time to 50mS, 200mS or add them.
So I am wondering if there's someone that has resistor value info.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 02, 2012, 11:28:06 PM
Hello,

I finished my first DIY project.
It sounded so good that I was satisfied.
Thanks Igor.

However, after I played with it for few hours, I felt 2dB steps of make-up and threshold were too big for me.
Also, I want to replace the recovery time to 50mS, 200mS or add them.
So I am wondering if there's someone that has resistor value info.


For makeup, you can use ELMA switch and get 21 steps. Need to cut the board. In case you going to implement 21 steps switch,
just write, will post the board picture and where to cut.
Recovery: r10, 11 on front panel. Math: twice lower R is faster twice.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 02, 2012, 11:29:57 PM
Thanks Igor,

BTW, should the eight 4153 that came with kit be matched?
I verified them, (using diode setting on my meter) and  they all seem very close except one of them seems a little off...

(For measument can I use diode setting on my multimeter. It has 2 digit accuracy. Or should I use your method?




Hm... Little off.
The eights supplied with kit are matched within 1-2% on two Vf points.
What are the values? Take into account, tweezer and same room temperature ;)
Should be OK, in case of whatever, just let me know and I will ship another 8 if one diode of your eight measures wrong.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on February 04, 2012, 01:29:56 PM
OK Igor,

I just checked my multimeter specs and the diode setting verrifies "forward voltage drop", not "current". (So, my bad :-[)
So I trust that your diodes are matched :)

Thanks Igor.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 06, 2012, 09:06:12 PM
Hopefully, they are ;)
In any case, recheck, the tester should give very close readings (within 1-2%) on all 8 diodes.
If somehow one shows bit less/more, it had higher/lower temperature when tested.
Don't hesitate in this case ask me to send another checked eight, will happily do it for free.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on February 07, 2012, 07:57:16 AM
Thanks Igor.  :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 07, 2012, 11:49:19 PM
Whoop! Got the kit on the mail today! (Actually yesterday but i just arrived from a gig) Tidy packaging, sexy looking pcbs.. This smells like a winner!

Thanks a lot igor! Ill check all parts in there and do the matching diodes hopefully i get some time during the week!

I think now is the time to think about the transformers and all! I guess simplest is go for the carnhills.. I have not found cinemags (due to my lack of experience) altho i would like them very if possible.

Anyways.. Thanks again!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 08, 2012, 11:49:19 AM
Cool! Arrived within a month, right?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 08, 2012, 10:22:42 PM
Cool! Arrived within a month, right?

well to be completely honest man.. israeli post i think is top notch. it arrived into mexico (sealed on the box) by 10 days... hehe then here it lagged for another 4 weeks give or take.

thanks a lot tho :) all is great here i still havent been able to check all the components but i reckn its all there.
 so nice and tidy ! i dont want to open the bags yet untill i get a day or two to do it properly.

i sent email to cinemag but they havent come back with anything yet.. been about a month ... i really almost throwing the towel with that now.

all the best!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on February 10, 2012, 06:20:39 AM
Hi Igor,
i've finished mine, but while trying to calibrate the unit,
i found a problem with the gain trimmer,
it doesn"t work on both channels, i will try to unsolder and change,
but do you have any leads to troubleshoot this problem ?
otherwise everything seems to work ok,
thanks for your help,
Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 12, 2012, 02:27:00 AM
hey yall!  im just starting to separate the components from the kit and label them.. lot of work but wow can see igor put a lot of effort doing these kits .. thanks a lot for that!! anyways, i see there is nothing like IC sockets which is ok but something to do the matching with the diodes. i think i read on this thread igor or someone is using some milimax standoffs or something? i would love to know how i can search for them on mouser (by what name?) or if anyone has the part number i`d be greatful!

thanks a lot :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: pacemaker on February 12, 2012, 03:59:35 AM
ok problem solved, those sh**** trimpots were blocked in 5k,
don't know why, but i changed them for Bourns ones and now it works like a charm,
so let's finished calibration for this gem !!
thanks again Igor for such a great projetc !!
regards,
Francois
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 13, 2012, 03:48:42 AM
hey! just an update.. i almost finished separating and locating everything. its all there!(almost). just a couple of things im not 100% sure ill post tomorow with pictures if possible.
from the top of my head.. i think the tantalums i wasnt sure (there were 4x10uF inside a lil baggy all on their own.. also a few 10uF electrolythic that i think should be axial are radial.
i got a couple of questions tho..

does anything have to be grounded with standoffs? do i have to get metal standoffs? (i was going to anyways but.. the next question)
does anyone know about those separators that go like standoffs but between the pcbs? how can i look for those too?


also was going to ask if 1N4004 could be replaced with 1n4007 but i think looking at the BOM from the power supply the answer is yes?

from looking at bom from power supply also, then if i instal R5 to make it 24V, i dont need the NI trimmer?

im excited about this project ! going to have a read thru again just to make sure i dont miss anything before i get to put all together.
thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 13, 2012, 06:50:06 PM
Cool! Arrived within a month, right?

well to be completely honest man.. israeli post i think is top notch. it arrived into mexico (sealed on the box) by 10 days... hehe then here it lagged for another 4 weeks give or take.

thanks a lot tho :) all is great here i still havent been able to check all the components but i reckn its all there.
 so nice and tidy ! i dont want to open the bags yet untill i get a day or two to do it properly.

i sent email to cinemag but they havent come back with anything yet.. been about a month ... i really almost throwing the towel with that now.

all the best!

Regarding the shipping: you had some luck :)
About 88% of packages are arriving within 2-3 weeks.
About 10% of packages arriving within a month+. Really, don't know what possible to do with this.

Cinemags are not the only trannies on a planet, you can source Beclairs (TF10015/16) or Carnhills.
EA10468 and EA1066 are good too, I used them several times for 2254C.

hey yall!  im just starting to separate the components from the kit and label them.. lot of work but wow can see igor put a lot of effort doing these kits .. thanks a lot for that!! anyways, i see there is nothing like IC sockets which is ok but something to do the matching with the diodes. i think i read on this thread igor or someone is using some milimax standoffs or something? i would love to know how i can search for them on mouser (by what name?) or if anyone has the part number i`d be greatful!

thanks a lot :)

8x 1N4153 are already matched, they are located in separate bag. Resistors for control and main PCB are located in separate bags too, more or less in logic order.
IC sockets: don't need them. Solder diodes and TL072 directly. I pulled sockets for diodes from regular 14 pin IC socket in first 2254C's; not necessary IMO,
why have I change them if diodes are already matched???

Price - wise: as long as I building 2254C for my customers from time to time, have to hold stock of components.
This way, I prefer to sell kits for reasonable price and buy parts in significant qty's to reduce my own investment in inits I build.
For example, sourcing same components for one compressor from 2 suppliers will cost you bit more than kit.
In other words, everybody are happy.

ok problem solved, those sh**** trimpots were blocked in 5k,
don't know why, but i changed them for Bourns ones and now it works like a charm,
so let's finished calibration for this gem !!
thanks again Igor for such a great projetc !!
regards,
Francois

Dat's great! Very happy to hear about this.
Francois: pls let me know if received the last package. (shipping, again!!! Talk to me on skype).

hey! just an update.. i almost finished separating and locating everything. its all there!(almost). just a couple of things im not 100% sure ill post tomorow with pictures if possible.
from the top of my head.. i think the tantalums i wasnt sure (there were 4x10uF inside a lil baggy all on their own.. also a few 10uF electrolythic that i think should be axial are radial.
i got a couple of questions tho..

does anything have to be grounded with standoffs? do i have to get metal standoffs? (i was going to anyways but.. the next question)
does anyone know about those separators that go like standoffs but between the pcbs? how can i look for those too?


also was going to ask if 1N4004 could be replaced with 1n4007 but i think looking at the BOM from the power supply the answer is yes?

from looking at bom from power supply also, then if i instal R5 to make it 24V, i dont need the NI trimmer?

im excited about this project ! going to have a read thru again just to make sure i dont miss anything before i get to put all together.
thanks a lot!

10uF blue electrolitics, Philips audio grade, yep, radial ones.

Standoffs: I use metal standoffs with plastic isolators or plastic standoffs for main board.
Main board shouldn't be grounded at standoffs. I used ground schem from the power supply starground.
BTW, you see on power supply two pads, G4 at top, nonamed at bottom, and hole marked G2. Connect them together; install power supply on metal standoffs,
for me it worked like a charm with all 2254C's, all quiet as Addams cemetery.

r5=3k57, NotInstall the trimmer.

1n4004 or 4007, no matter (should be general purpose diode, 1A)

Cool than... Please satisfy my curiosity and show working unit's pictures!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 13, 2012, 06:53:39 PM
Ah yep. Standoffs.

http://il.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2017+204566+110001433+110180770+110142509+110202977+110195958+110131736+110174377+110131754+110163773&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=hex+standoff&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_IL&divisionLocale=en_IL&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=2017+204566&mm=1000922||,1002799||,1002275||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=true&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D2017%2B204566%26Ntk%3Dgensearch%26Ntt%3Dhex%2Bstandoff%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_IL%26divisionLocale%3Den_IL%26catalogId%3D%26skipManufacturer%3Dfalse%26skipParametricAttributeId%3D%26prevNValues%3D2017%2B204566

Just look for hex standoffs; m3; 5 or 6 mm height for bottom/pwer supply and 28-35mm between main boards.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 13, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
yeah! thanks a lot for the quick reply ! :) kit is all in order. zeners .. well by deduction and elimination i think there is no other choice.. also JE 371 couldnt read it labeled on it but theyr the only ones left.

just one 120K missing from the kit but thankfully i got 2 from previous gssl builds :)

great! thanks again!. soldering the resistors on main boards now

ps. will post pics of finished unit count on it! :) ordered ST7 mtrs like you recommend. tat makin a case for me so will look real nice! :)

about trannies id like the least THD possible i havent seen belclare but i thought were even more pricey than carnhills. anyways .. still thinkin bout it . will look into belclair ! ... i think ill go for carnies

About PS...
I connect "G4 pad" and "no name pad" thru "G2 hole"? like with the leg of a resistor (or wire ) going from one pad to the other?

just to know what to order if carnhills... i thought trannies from carnhill were 9045 9046 and 9049 (2x each for my stereo kit) more detailed on next post

also.. if i go for carnhill R54 and C19 stay like overlay says? i saw also CZ and RZ i guess those also would change if i use other tranny than carnhill? (maybe?)

AH BTW... on BOM R"19 = 1k on overlay =820R (i take it BOM is the right one since thats the one that  came on the kit?)
also if i want to make the attack and recovery a bit faster which 10uF i have to make smaller? will 2.2uF be ok? maybe 4u7.. and does it have to be Low ESR or low leakage or something?

cheers igor! since i opened this box the whole thing smells like a new car :D sort of speak

EDIT : ive finished soldering the resistors i found some things..

*R34 47K  is missing on BOM and on the kit.. (should it be 11x47k per channel?)

2x 1M resistors extra on the kit
2x 27R extra on the kit.

been a long day! tomorow ill do the rest :D will update when i finish puttin it all together.

just a thought.. the ceramics 0.1uF can be exchanged for some poliester ones? i got tons of both but i am wondering if it would change the sound somehow?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 14, 2012, 07:52:32 AM
Ok up to now ive put all caps in " place"
This are my observations / doubts

1.  R34 ( 2x47k) missing ?

2. I got 8 toggle switches in total. (all spdt) i think 2 extras

3.  2 x 1Mohm extra ( R19 i cant find where it goes ehehe)

4. C'4 and C'6 say 80 on the overlay, i got few 100 uF i guess theyre it.

5.  10uF x 6 extras. 4 axial and 2 radial.

6. Other thing about 10uF. There are 3 kinds on the kit, 2 pairs of kemet 10% axial (black ones) and blue smaller ones, those are axial and radial. Any hints on which goes where?

7.  Tr 3 2n3055 and the heatsink, how do i mount that? (i know with the screws) but, anythin else? Do i need to make sure anything while placing it? Also just 2 bolts for this purpose... 4 nuts and washers but only 2 screws

8. And last.. To connect the stereo link toggle, what kind of toggle do i need and how/ where do i connect from / to?

other thing.. i am asuming the overlay on the pcb`s is all right (i have no doubt in my mind). i say this because of transistors J109 and BC 184 / 214.  i got to bend the legs but the body should go as the overlay shows i guess?  (igor said sometimes EBC are different legs.) dont know what make they are or i would look into the datasheet :)

sorry for redundance.. carnhills would be OP_TR = Part Code: CA-18-VTB9049
                                                    INTR1 = Part Code: CA-18-VTB9045M
                                                     INTR2= CA-18-VTB9046M         

(from audio mainteinance http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Transformers_and_Inductors.html
Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 19, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
bump
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 27, 2012, 03:14:33 PM
Ok up to now ive put all caps in " place"
This are my observations / doubts

1.  R34 ( 2x47k) missing ?

2. I got 8 toggle switches in total. (all spdt) i think 2 extras

3.  2 x 1Mohm extra ( R19 i cant find where it goes ehehe)

4. C'4 and C'6 say 80 on the overlay, i got few 100 uF i guess theyre it.

5.  10uF x 6 extras. 4 axial and 2 radial.

6. Other thing about 10uF. There are 3 kinds on the kit, 2 pairs of kemet 10% axial (black ones) and blue smaller ones, those are axial and radial. Any hints on which goes where?

7.  Tr 3 2n3055 and the heatsink, how do i mount that? (i know with the screws) but, anythin else? Do i need to make sure anything while placing it? Also just 2 bolts for this purpose... 4 nuts and washers but only 2 screws

8. And last.. To connect the stereo link toggle, what kind of toggle do i need and how/ where do i connect from / to?

other thing.. i am asuming the overlay on the pcb`s is all right (i have no doubt in my mind). i say this because of transistors J109 and BC 184 / 214.  i got to bend the legs but the body should go as the overlay shows i guess?  (igor said sometimes EBC are different legs.) dont know what make they are or i would look into the datasheet :)

sorry for redundance.. carnhills would be OP_TR = Part Code: CA-18-VTB9049
                                                    INTR1 = Part Code: CA-18-VTB9045M
                                                     INTR2= CA-18-VTB9046M         

(from audio mainteinance http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Transformers_and_Inductors.html
Thanks a lot!

Hi, sorry for abandoning the thread.

Missing components: mmm...human factor, happens; if you can source them, I will refund the cost + shipping;
or, just send me the list by mail, will ship ASAP.

Extra components: ok, have a fun and use for other project(s)! Probably, when Sergey arranged the kits, he added some stuff -
with good intentions, of course, not just for reason to complicate your life!

"Original" old drawing, where the BA283 part was copypasted from, shows 80uf, actually, 100uf were used too....
in other words, 100uf is right. Electrolytics have +/-20% tolerance, so, within range in any case ;)

10uf, blue, axial, goes to audio; tantalums are used in time constants (sidechain); that's it!

2N3055 should be raised a bit, thus, 4 nuts and 2 screws on each PCB. If something is missing, again, e-mail, will ship asap or refund the cost.

Stereo link: to LINK points at front panel pcb, near the meters; spdt toggle.

Transformers: seems correct; was already posted some pages back. If need very fast answer, skype/mail.

P.s. R19 = N/A (not installed).
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on February 28, 2012, 09:48:47 PM
hey thanks a lot!! :)

just a couple of questions now.. sourcing the parts..

1- found some heatsinks for the PS..  is this one good for the job?
Mouser N.º:   588-RA-T2X-38E   
Fabricante N.º:   RA-T2X-38E
Fabricante:    Ohmite
Desc.:   Cuerpo de Refrigeración HTSNK TO-220 218 247 BLK ANODIZED
RoHS:    En conformidad con la RoHS

2- power supply regulator now.. lm317TS.. i can not find TS termination on mouser but a lot of them... i need the 1.5amp 1.2-37V or 1.2-57V? or neither?

Mouser N.º:   863-LM317TG   
Fabricante N.º:   LM317TG
Fabricante:    ON Semiconductor
Desc.:   Reguladores lineales - Estándar 1.5A ADJ 1.2-37V Positive
RoHS:    En conformidad con la RoHS

3- tl071p i can see CP, IP, termination. do i want higher db rejection mode or doesnt matter?

Mouser N.º:   595-TL071CP   
Fabricante N.º:   TL071CP
Fabricante:    Texas Instruments
Desc.:   Amplificadores Operacionales JFET Input Low Noise
RoHS:    En conformidad con la RoHS

4- about 2n3055.. in the .doc instruction manual says i should use thermal paste also. is this needed? if so can i find in mouser? (all my list is on mouser makes sense to source everything there now.)..
also about this .. only screws and bolts for one board.. ill try and find them in mouser again.. im very incompetent looking for bolts there ehehe.

i guess all the rest is good :) almost there!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on February 29, 2012, 08:59:10 AM
For the heatsink: should fit at first glance, but check again with datasheet.
LM317 should be 1.5A, 37V is OK, 57 too.

TL071, ot TL081 etc: used as reference voltage source, +3 or +5V, for compressor adjustment.
You need it for 20 minutes when adjusting the compressor. 99% of generic op-amps in DIP-8 will work here.

2n3055: no need for thermal paste, just screw to heatsink.

Screws: ma bad, human factor; just mail me, will ship asap.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 01, 2012, 01:34:17 AM
hello! thanks a lot! i saw your email and didnt look here afterwards... studio construction works takes it out from you... im nervous hehe my studio will never be the same.. if only just slightly better it will be ok.

anyways. thanks! almost ready to make this order .. about the screws no worrys ill try and source on my own.. shipping from over there to here for just 2 screws man.. will figure it out for sure . if u got a mouser part number or similar screw id be very greatful but ill get to look for that now

again thanks a lot man.
all the best!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 01, 2012, 06:02:29 AM
Actually, all you need, is just buy 4x screws, 4 x nuts, and 12 fasteners, all M3; screws are 12...18mm;
it is common thing in every DIY shop like ACE or even Office Deport..
Here, it goes in packs of 10 and costs about 1 eur for whole bolts story.

Psychedelic trance, BTW! Do you like Legendary Pink Dots?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 01, 2012, 01:04:56 PM
Actually, all you need, is just buy 4x screws, 4 x nuts, and 12 fasteners, all M3; screws are 12...18mm;
it is common thing in every DIY shop like ACE or even Office Deport..
Here, it goes in packs of 10 and costs about 1 eur for whole bolts story.

Psychedelic trance, BTW! Do you like Legendary Pink Dots?

Ehehe pink dots? Is that a legendary trance band?
Im going today see if i find the screws on office depot. Thanks a lot for the infos.. I got to pick up some fiberglass now ! Endless work

All the best! Tat will post the case some time next week and i will start takin some pictures :D
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2012, 09:02:29 PM
He! Legendary Pink Dots isn't a trance, but good psycho stuff.
I used to drink sometimes at Charlie Bar, Haifa; somehow, when barmen see me, the "Curious Guy" song appears in playlist.
Isn't it Tao? (bugagagaga!!!!!)
"Love Puppets" is another song I very like. Morbid!!! In Addams style!

Cool than, waiting impatiently for photos of working and calibrated unit! The Sontec kits are arranged and posted, BTW.
Some stuff was missing, second package will be on the way shortly.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 15, 2012, 12:40:20 AM
He! Legendary Pink Dots isn't a trance, but good psycho stuff.
I used to drink sometimes at Charlie Bar, Haifa; somehow, when barmen see me, the "Curious Guy" song appears in playlist.
Isn't it Tao? (bugagagaga!!!!!)
"Love Puppets" is another song I very like. Morbid!!! In Addams style!

Cool than, waiting impatiently for photos of working and calibrated unit! The Sontec kits are arranged and posted, BTW.
Some stuff was missing, second package will be on the way shortly.

Thanks a lot!! Sontecs yum! :) ill look into pink dots! Its great to get inspiration from the past and abroad.

The 2254 ill order whats needed tomorow but toroid is coming still and thecase also hasnt made it yet!
I hope it gets all here very verysoon im 100 times as anxious to see it working ! (or at least flaming some resistors :D )

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 18, 2012, 04:26:26 AM
hello! i got the transformers at last!! whew.. were in customs for a while!.
anyways.. i was just wondering. i got the metal kind .. so they should be pcb mounted i think.
two questions..

1. would i have to put the little bits that were cutout from the front pannel pcb`s?

2. the input and interstage transformers.. in the pcb there is only 4 holes for each side. on the transformer it has 5 pins!! :/ weird

EDIT 3. on the power supply do i have to connect G4 pad and unnamed pad underneath thru G2 ? with link wire?

thanks for your help :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 20, 2012, 11:31:07 AM
Bump...
Is it me or this thread is a bit dead?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on March 24, 2012, 07:01:28 PM
ehehe hi how are yall!! anyways ill keep asking a bit.  who knows! :D

i got a question.. or a couple still.

in the power supply pcb. igor said something about the pads on both sides and G2 hole. i think i got to join all 3 together? please tell me if im wrong.

the link on the compressor i dont understand cus there is 2 links on pcbs... main pcb labeled LINK and ratio /recovery pcb labeled >LINK

i thought i had to get spst switch to get the 2 links from main pcbs (LINK) and whenever them 2 are together its stereo linked? what are the >LINK for?

well i still dont know about the transformers. theyre definitely the ones i need (i think) i posted the numbers back a few posts ago. in any case, the pcb would be missing 2 holes.. i thought of drilling them eheh silly me. havent done it yet and dont plan to cus thinking twice is very silly idea. maybe i mount them like the normal 9045 and 9046 with molex..

anyways any help will be greatly apreciated
thanks a lot!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: khstudio on March 28, 2012, 07:49:31 PM
Hey Matt,
I'm having trouble calibrating my unit & was cross referencing the other calibration docs with yours & think there MAY be a mistake in yours but I'm not sure - You said:
Quote
Adjust the +CV trimmer on PSU for -20db / (0.0775VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust RV3 to reflect 0db on Meter

Shouldn't it say:
Adjust RV3 to reflect -20db on Meter

???

Thanks,
Kevin


Right, as promised here is a point by point calibration procedure based on the bits I got from Kambo, Igor and various other sources (thanks to you all for your insight/info along the way).

Before we start we need to set the BIAS current on the output stage of the BA283, the easiest way to do this is to adjust RV1 to give you a 100mA across R"7, the 47R resistor. Logic/Ohms law dictates that 4.7VDC across the 47R resistor is 100mA, so adjust RV1 to give you 4.7VDC across it... simple and effective, no scope required!

Moving on...

Make sure the settings on the control board are as follows:

MAKE-UP GAIN = 0
THRESHOLD = Fully Clockwise
ATTACK = 8 o'clock
RELEASE = Fully Counter Clockwise
RATIO =  1:2
+10 and HPF switched OUT
Compression IN

We then need to set the +CV voltage, which is done on Igor's PSU so adjust the onboard trimmer on the PSU to give you +3VDC at the +CV out.

With the compressor switched in adjust GAIN trimmer to get unity gain.
Then croc clip the +3VDC C+V voltage from PSU to the LINK on Main Board
Adjust RV2 to get -8db (0.308VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust the +CV trimmer on PSU for -20db / (0.0775VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust RV3 to reflect 0db on Meter
REMOVE the croc clip to the main board and PSU
Set the Threshold to -2db (1st click on the Threshold switch)
Adjust RV5 for -1db / 0.690 at output
Set the Ratio to 6:1
Set the Threshold to -20db and measure -16db / (0.123VAC RMS)
Adjust RV3 to reflect this accordingly

If all goes well your unit should be fully calibrated!

Happy compressing  ;D

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: khstudio on March 28, 2012, 08:51:34 PM
Hey guys... (Girls, if any  :-*)
I'm having trouble getting my unit calibrated & could use all the help I can get:
#1 - Is there a list of the "TEST POINT" Voltages for IGOR's 2254c?
I did find the "33609 schematic with voltages but not sure if it applies... Having IGOR's schematic for THIS project, marked up would be GREAT to have!
#2 - I'm having trouble adjusting the "Unity Gain" on one channel... it's almost there = .667VAC with the "GAIN" trimmer maxed out!!!
Is it possible that the "compression/diode bridge" is clamping down on the raw signal & not letting enough through?
I've followed all the calibration procedures & can't figure it out.
also, I've been VERY careful building & rechecking the entire unit then rechecked it again last night & today... it's all good.

#3 - which should be #1 -
When I first turned the unit on, the 33R resistors feeding the 24v DC to the TL072 for the HPF "SMOKED"!!!
Not sure where I bought them (years ago) but I have a bad batch of "TL072's"... after realizing this I measured one of the same, Brand NEW TL072's from the same batch & it measures a dead "SHORT" between pins 4 & 8 (The Power pins)
So that sucked... I checked & replaced ALL surrounding components along with the TL072's & it seem OK but I'm not sure if it could have damaged anything else?

Thanks, Kevin


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: khstudio on March 28, 2012, 08:53:07 PM
 Another quick pic... will post Bigger & cleaner pics when I finish.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: khstudio on April 07, 2012, 12:30:18 AM
OK... ALL Fixed & working well.
I'm not sure where my stock of TL072's came from but THEY were the problem!
They're what caused the 33r power resistors to "smoke" & was messing with my calibration.
After swapping several (over 8) TL072's I found 2 that worked... very strange indeed. A few were even NEW (from a few years back) & measured almost a dead short from V+ to V-.

Just thought I'd share... the dumbest things can really cause problems.

IGOR -
What is R60, 18k* for?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on April 17, 2012, 07:34:59 PM
I'm starting to get it together.I wish I had more time to work on it.
Next to start drilling mounting holes for the standoffs and try to find an IEC receptacle that will fit Parusha's case.

One question- is the 2N3055 supposed to be elevated to allow it to cool or is it to keep from shorting out.
I mounted it flush and am wondering if I should pull it out and reinstall new ones?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on April 19, 2012, 05:45:15 PM
I'm starting to get it together.I wish I had more time to work on it.
Next to start drilling mounting holes for the standoffs and try to find an IEC receptacle that will fit Parusha's case.

One question- is the 2N3055 supposed to be elevated to allow it to cool or is it to keep from shorting out.
I mounted it flush and am wondering if I should pull it out and reinstall new ones?

i think this is good for the case http://mx.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=6200.2300virtualkey69300000virtualkey693-6200.2300
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on April 19, 2012, 07:51:10 PM
I'm starting to get it together.I wish I had more time to work on it.
Next to start drilling mounting holes for the standoffs and try to find an IEC receptacle that will fit Parusha's case.

One question- is the 2N3055 supposed to be elevated to allow it to cool or is it to keep from shorting out.
I mounted it flush and am wondering if I should pull it out and reinstall new ones?

i think this is good for the case http://mx.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=6200.2300virtualkey69300000virtualkey693-6200.2300
Thanks Ptron, I was looking at those but wasn't sure about the measurements being exact.

Have you installed your transformers? I'm going to do mine as most others have appeared to do, by side mounting with zip ties on pcb and using the molex connectors. The mounting holes appear to be for marinair, etc.

I'm also wondering about the psu pin 2 connection wire also. Have you sorted this out?
Cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on April 20, 2012, 02:46:30 PM
I'm starting to get it together.I wish I had more time to work on it.
Next to start drilling mounting holes for the standoffs and try to find an IEC receptacle that will fit Parusha's case.

One question- is the 2N3055 supposed to be elevated to allow it to cool or is it to keep from shorting out.
I mounted it flush and am wondering if I should pull it out and reinstall new ones?

i think this is good for the case http://mx.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=6200.2300virtualkey69300000virtualkey693-6200.2300
Thanks Ptron, I was looking at those but wasn't sure about the measurements being exact.

Have you installed your transformers? I'm going to do mine as most others have appeared to do, by side mounting with zip ties on pcb and using the molex connectors. The mounting holes appear to be for marinair, etc.

I'm also wondering about the psu pin 2 connection wire also. Have you sorted this out?
Cheers

thanks ! i thought it was my pee brain that didnt understand the sketch about transformers. (maybe it is)
about PSU whhich pin 2 are you talking about?
i got a doubt about PSU where the unnamed pad on the back, G2(hole) and G4(pad) go , should i join the 2 pads thru G2 hole  and solder the 3 together? is this a ground link?

i havent installed the trunnies but i will as soon as i get some time off. your post here has helped me to decide thanks a lot!

ill keep u posted! im glad there is some movement in this thread!
best
ill keep u posted

EDIT: BTW! the IEC inlets do fit on Tat`s case cutout, but theyre not for pressure fit so will have to drill a couple of holes on the sides of the square hole to mount properly... (just to let u know)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on April 20, 2012, 03:45:04 PM
thanks ! i thought it was my pee brain that didnt understand the sketch about transformers. (maybe it is)
about PSU whhich pin 2 are you talking about?
i got a doubt about PSU where the unnamed pad on the back, G2(hole) and G4(pad) go , should i join the 2 pads thru G2 hole  and solder the 3 together? is this a ground link?

i havent installed the trunnies but i will as soon as i get some time off. your post here has helped me to decide thanks a lot!

ill keep u posted! im glad there is some movement in this thread!
best
ill keep u posted

EDIT: BTW! the IEC inlets do fit on Tat`s case cutout, but theyre not for pressure fit so will have to drill a couple of holes on the sides of the square hole to mount properly... (just to let u know)

I tried wrapping my brain (pea sized bits as well) around the transformer pcb mounts also for quite a while, until I decided it would be easiest to just use the molex connectors as others that used Carnhill's photo's had indicated.

I ordered the same power inlet as you linked, from the mouser catalog, only I got the "H" version which is the snap in mount. Thanks for that tip.

The only thing that I can deduct from the extra needed wire connection on the psu is the G2 hole looks to have been run to star ground at rear of case. See the photo from Igor's build (page 1, pic 4) and this photo copied from Matta's post (pg 18).
I'm not sure if anything else extra needs to be connected on psu?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on May 02, 2012, 12:56:57 AM
I finally got this thing put together. It fires up with no black smoke!!
Tomorrow I will take it to the studio and see how it sounds. I can't wait.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on May 02, 2012, 10:22:03 AM
I remember to have replied to your previousmsg! Sorry bout that! Sketchy ipad playing with me. Im about to get corageous and get the molex together. Color coded them so should be all good. Im in the building of my studio so im very behind all this.
Sounds promising the " no smoke " situation congrats!  Was your theory about the psu right?

All the best!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on May 02, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
Well after sending signal to it…….this thing sings! It sounds great! I really like the hpf section. It's going to give my 525's a battle for the drum buss duties! Now to try to make heads or tails of the calibration procedure.
Ptron, the g2 to star ground seems to be correct, as far as I can tell.
I am noticing a little hum in the right channel at max listening volume on my console. Is it possible that my output tranny is too close to my power molex wires?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on May 15, 2012, 05:37:17 PM
I've got it calibrated, but still have a tiny hum on the right channel at max listening level. I've flipped the toroidal on its side to get it further away from the pcb. This seemed to have help a little but, I don't think it is the cause. Does anyone have any ideas?
I guess I could swap the left and right pcb to see if it's a component…..
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on May 26, 2012, 03:17:33 PM
Is the channel with hum the one closest to psu/toroid trunny? (might just be that!)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on May 27, 2012, 03:04:38 AM
I have it sorted out. Flipped the toroidal on its side, to gain 2 inches of distance from the pcb, and it helped. I also had slightly loose standoffs, that may have affected grounding. It's hum free now!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on May 27, 2012, 03:54:31 PM
wikiiidd!!!! :)
i just fitting the molex today  had too much mastering to do last weeks!! studio construction finished too! (for the most part) so now i can get to finishing this beauty!! hope the rest of the stuff get here this week to get it closed and ready for the sontecs....

all the best! (jealous now about your hum free and perfect unit.) :D

one question, the rot. switches on mine i still havent trimmed them (i dont have the knobs yet and i dont know how is the best way so i dont damage the switches) u know anything bout this?

thanks!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 01, 2012, 08:55:48 PM
Ptron- I'd wait until you get you knobs. I use my wife's dremel with a cutting wheel. She's a jeweler!
I'm almost at the point with my single unit that I just got. Don't forget to cut off the pins on the pots I you don't have set holes for them.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Nobru on June 03, 2012, 08:53:33 AM
Hi everybody; I'm finnishing 2 2254's I have a little problem with the molex I didn't get enough of them to complete the comps. Does any body know the reference for those molex a digikey, mouser or radiospare reference would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
B
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 03, 2012, 11:02:58 PM
Hey Nobru,
Here is some Mouser numbers for Molex connectors, that is posted earlier in this thread.
Some of the power connectors are no longer available at Mouser. Let me know if you find any suppliers. If you can't find them, just solder wire to boards.
Part                        Qty.     Mouser part number
__________           ____     ______________
2PIN HEADER          3   538-22-23-2021
3PIN HEADER          2   538-22-23-2031
4PIN HEADER          3       538-22-23-2041
5PIN HEADER          6   538-22-23-2051
6PIN HEADER          2   538-22-23-2061
2PIN CONNECTOR   3   538-22-01-2025
3PIN CONNECTOR   2   538-22-01-2035
4PIN CONNECTOR   3   538-22-01-2045
5PIN CONNECTOR   6   538-22-01-2055
6PIN CONNECTOR   2   538-22-01-2065
.156KK 4P HEADER   1   538-26-64-4040
.156KK CONNECTOR 4P   1   538-09-91-0400
MOLEX CRIMP PIN   25   538-08-50-0032
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 06, 2012, 05:14:31 PM
thanks a lot dude! ill follow your advice and get the knobs first :)
damn .. been waiting for nearly 2 months for the meters and the toroid traffo! (bad idea to ask help on a project.. better do everything yourself)... no one is in the hurry i am for finishing it. anyways they should be here anytime and i can get on with it! finally.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Nobru on June 10, 2012, 01:46:37 PM
Many thanks Duantro!!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 16, 2012, 01:33:59 PM
Hello! Good to be around for a bit! Damn busy days lately.. What to do. Anyways.. I been looking for the nylon spacers to go between one and other pcb (to mount them vertically like Igor and Matta) i cant find the spacers i need i can only find things over m3 .. Smallest m 3.5 and it wont go thru the holes onthe pcb! Anyone has a mouser part number for it? Id be real greatful!

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 22, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
Ok i think i got everything sorted. Just gettin the toroid connected, just checking... http://www.datasheets.org.uk/TA030-15*-datasheet.html

I need to go with my primaries in paralell and secondaries in series?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 24, 2012, 05:18:33 PM
Bump :) i'd go for it but its mains so i rather confirm my suspicions! :)

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 24, 2012, 05:29:16 PM
Bump :) i'd go for it but its mains so i rather confirm my suspicions! :)

Thanks a lot!
What are the secondary voltages of your toroidal? Link is dead.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 25, 2012, 02:53:27 AM
Ah sorry! Secondaries 15 0 15
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 25, 2012, 10:23:08 AM
Ah sorry! Secondaries 15 0 15
I'm not sure, but I don't think this transformer will work here. I believe you need dual secondaries as opposed to one with a center tap. My limited experience with center tap transformers has been with supplying a + & - voltage, so I thought the secondary legs were out of phase.
This thread seems pretty dead, but anyone knowing this answer, feel free to chime in.
This is what I got.
http://hairballaudio.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=37
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 25, 2012, 10:50:55 AM
Ah sorry again! I didnt know how to type it :p

It is prim. 115 - 0. / 115 - 0
    sec. 15-0 / 15-0

I thought would work like this.. :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 25, 2012, 12:22:18 PM
Ah sorry again! I didnt know how to type it :p

It is prim. 115 - 0. / 115 - 0
    sec. 15-0 / 15-0

I thought would work like this.. :)
Ok, If it is dual secondaries, I'd try it in series. take a look at this linked image. I'm not sure about the adjustment and being able to knock the 30v down to the needed 24v though.
http://www.delabs-circuits.com/cirdir/electric/tables/transformer_types.png
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 25, 2012, 03:25:37 PM
Woah well i measured and consulted my uncle (which happens to be an electric engineer eheh (good luck for me!) he confirmed it and yeah i got about 38v between the 2 wires.. A bit over but i think is fine. PS, doing 24.1V ... now im still happy that it doesnt smoke.. But i want to calibrate the mofo... First channel is attatched and still nothin smokes..
Im really confused with the calibration tho... How do i measure unity on output? Dmm on ac voltage i guess? But :D im finding out how much of a noob i am day by day with this project ehehh
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 25, 2012, 07:52:18 PM
Ah nothing is burning! It sounds great!... Just its compressing from very low levels with no threshold or anything.. I need the +10 switched on to get the unit not compressing very low level.. Eheheh i think i need to understand the test and calibration proc...

Ill be back with more, but... Any pointers? The dc bias i dont understand where i need to measure, i read from matt 4.7VDC across 47 r but where do i attach the DMM wires? To the reaistor and ground?
EDIT: multiturn.. Took a while eheheh

Wohoo! It works! :D thanks a lot igor for this killer project! :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 25, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Is it normal PS heatsink gets very very hot in like 1 hour of messing around.. (i mean really really hot...)  it sounds killer, it just is bit louder on one channel, not sure how to work out the calibration from this point...

Quoted from matt:
With the compressor switched in adjust GAIN trimmer to get unity gain. (trimmer doesnt do anything to output xlr.. )

Then croc clip the +3VDC C+V voltage from PSU to the LINK on Main Board (this probably i can do..)

Adjust RV2 to get -8db (0.308VAC RMS) at output XLR
Adjust the +CV trimmer on PSU for -20db / (0.0775VAC RMS) at output XLR ( when saying at output xlr, do i measure between gnd and + OR +and -)

Adjust RV3 to reflect 0db on Meter (DMM or compression meter?) i guess DMM .775VAC?
REMOVE the croc clip to the main board and PSU
Set the Threshold to -2db (1st click on the Threshold switch)
Adjust RV5 for -1db / 0.690 at output
Set the Ratio to 6:1
Set the Threshold to -20db and measure -16db / (0.123VAC RMS) ( my DMM is really bad maybe i need another better one, mine only has 200 and 750 on the V~ (i think this is VAC)

Adjust RV3 to reflect this accordingly

If all goes well your unit should be fully calibrated!

Happy compressing 

....

my unit actually is  lower on left channel by 0.3 db (on level meter) even on bypass and off! ehm.. weird i think i got something wrong with a cable there...



Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on June 27, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
aaah well... few turns on them and they started doing some damage heheh :) i think its calibrated!! :) not quite unity gain as i would like ( im measuring about -1.1db on the output....
but its pretty darn accurate with compression ... and needless to say ... damn sounds so nice!!!!

i still dunno about PS heatsink.. im not sure if it should get this hot! its very very hot. gets really warm from fireup, and keeps gettin bit by bit warmer and warmer... is it normal?

anyways.. damn fine machine this is.

Reading -90 db noise floor.. Bit of dc (i think) low end spiking.. Maybe to do with calibration and the 47/1w resistor?
ill post pics very soon :)

thanks a lot igor!! and all the kind people replying to my (and other) messages in this thread :) lot of help !!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Nobru on June 29, 2012, 10:10:53 PM
Hi everybody; it seems there is a mis print on the 2254 pcb regarding the audio transfo is there anybody that did a version where the tranies are soldered to the pcb and could confirm the misprint on the tranie slot of the 9046. To me it looks backward but i'm not so sure... thx; B
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on June 30, 2012, 01:46:27 PM
AAhh, I've been swamped at work.

Ptron- good work! How are your voltages? I can possibly try to put my meter on my heat sink sometime this week to check temperature.
Nobru- I recommend using the molex connections for the transformers. I have Carnhills in mine and the molex's are labeled correct. Zip tie the input trannies on their sides with the spacer bords underneath them to keep them from shorting. Look back in this thread. I never understood the transformer pcb mount cutouts. I assumed they were for different transformers.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on July 01, 2012, 04:32:53 AM
Yeah i think tthose cutouts are for marinairs, belclare and somethin else...  Def not for carnies (at least the ones i got!

Duantro, thanks a lot man! Would be great help to know is normal this thing is so dam hot ..(even from startup..). I tried it on for an hour or two after the calibration, had too many things to actually get to it properly.. One thing is certain, i need a new dmm.. Other thing tho.. On my level meter, the noise floor is about -90 in general, but i got this low end spike kinda messin with it, and i think mainly comin from the left

 (spikes to -80 or something.. Not a big spike but bothers me like u probably understand

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Nobru on July 01, 2012, 07:27:43 AM
Molex it is molex I go...  I've seen grand master doing the pcb and trannies soldering but as you guys I'm not about to try to  see the smoke... Thx Duantro
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 04, 2012, 02:45:09 AM
Hey Ptron,
Maybe a connection issue? Have you checked your molex connections? I had a loose connection at the molex of an input tranny, that was doing some weird things.
I'll try to pull my stereo unit out of the rack and measure the temp in the near future. It is living on my drum buss, feasting on all of the drums that I can send it!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 08, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
Hey Ptron, I've finished my single channel unit and it fired up successfully! It's working great.
I haven't calibrated it yet, but I did do some temperature measurements of the PSU heat sink for you. I hope this helps!
Turn on temp 72 degrees F
1 minute      101F
2 Minutes     106.3F
3 Minutes     111.1F
4 Minutes     112.9F
5 Minutes     114.9F
6 Minutes     115.6F It leveled off here and was pretty stable.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on July 15, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
agh! sorry doomed with tons of work.. been completely out of my bench for a week or so :(

no my unit is way hotter than that.. i cant put a finger on it for over 2 seconds or it burns... still havent fumed, but im a bit concerned about this...
altho it calibrated and all, left side still has about 2Db rms more noise.. im beggining to think maybe when i put the lid on it will all go away heh i still havent i got to mount the LED`s first...
 (left is top channel so maybe some interference or stuff from somewhere gettin in there... )

Q-  can i hook up the power LED onto one channel`s VU LED? is it ok to have 2LEDs on one channel and 3 on the other?



anyways. it sounds fabulous.. i hope i got the time to check more of it.. where is your noise floor? with gain makeup on 0. mine about -85db on the rme digicheck totalizer.. (i found to be somewhat accurate with measuring this stuff)

Thanks a lot Duantro. u have been so much support for me (and future builders) on this project. i appreciate it a lot
got 4 channels of sontec waiting for the DOA`s ... damn too much to do too few hours in the day.

best! :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: king-rb on July 19, 2012, 07:07:34 AM
is there a formula for the makeup gain resistors? i want to change the steps to 0,3 db and the first step should be 0 db.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on July 20, 2012, 03:09:28 AM
one question to anyone that has measured (i guess yall have..) 

what is the noise floor on your units?? mine is awkwardly loud.. (on around -85 rms / -75 peak).. is about 30 db or more over the gssl noise floor.. is this normal??
-when i turn the speakers up all the way i can really hear the hiss.. very present. i bypass so only gssl comes in, no hiss even on extreme makeup gain.. im sure i did something wrong?!

-big PS capacitor has 46V -47V thru it...bit hi ..   i guess this is why the heatsink is goin so hot!!

-other funny thing.. when i place my finger over the 9046 the noise goes up ! makes me think the problem is near these transformers their grounding or something. (it is when i fiddle with the ground cable going into the molex terminal that the noise also spikes up. )

just wonderin.. the compressor sounds awsome, but with this much noise is not suitable for mastering at least for the style of music i do mastering for!! :( would very much like to lower that floor by a bit..

thanks yall!!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on July 23, 2012, 07:27:37 PM
I am following this with interst.

Mine is also hot like ptron's. "Can't keep my finger on the heatsink more than two seconds"...
and one chanel higher output than the other... ???



Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on July 24, 2012, 02:17:10 PM
(not because i like your misery), but im glad im not the only one with this problem! What voltage are you measuring across the big PS cap?
Igor asked me to measure current on output stage of 183 and 1n3055 ... Im not entirely sure where is this measuring point..

Anyways.. Got a week here at home to sort this out, if not, ill come back a month later from few gigs and try again.. But ill keep u posted about my progress.
Cheers!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 03, 2012, 11:27:25 AM
Overheating problem - check the voltage on power supply capacitor right after rectifier; should be 29...38V DC.
Power trafo should be 24V AC 1A secondary.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ptron on August 04, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
My traffo suposedly is 15V 1A secondaries.. Why is it givin out 46 - 47V? :p

Im away now but id love to tackle this as soon as im back!

Thanks a lot to yall for the help
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on August 17, 2012, 11:00:53 PM
Hey Ptron,

I have 37v at ps cap.
And temperature at ps regulator "heat sink" seems to stabilise at about 49c (after about 7 or 8 minutes)
Is this normal temperature Igor?


 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 18, 2012, 02:15:42 PM
My traffo suposedly is 15V 1A secondaries.. Why is it givin out 46 - 47V? :p

Why water is wet? ;)
I guess you connected the secondarys in series.
Two secondarys, each 15V, in series, gives 30VAC. Maybe bit more when unloaded.
After rectifier, 30*1.4=42V DC. Nothing unexpected. Change the trafo to 24V AC 1A and enjoy.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Igor on August 18, 2012, 02:16:57 PM
Hey Ptron,

I have 37v at ps cap.
And temperature at ps regulator "heat sink" seems to stabilise at about 49c (after about 7 or 8 minutes)
Is this normal temperature Igor?


 

Yep, seems OK; you can take bigger heatsink if you like the power supply run "easier".
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on January 28, 2013, 07:39:15 PM
Ok.
I'm at a loss here.  :-\
I've searched the forum and I haven't seen anyone else with this issue.
Everything seems to work as expected but the ratio control does not seem to work.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on January 31, 2013, 11:05:49 PM
Ok.
I'm at a loss here.  :-\
I've searched the forum and I haven't seen anyone else with this issue.
Everything seems to work as expected but the ratio control does not seem to work.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Double check your ratio switch wiring and make sure the associated molex connectros are making good connections.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Sylvain D. on February 01, 2013, 08:08:37 AM
Thanks Duantro.
I'll check those again.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on February 18, 2013, 05:30:22 PM
I have this power supply

223-8538

Doc: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0028/0900766b800284c0.pdf

I have read almost everything but it still do not get the first thing right, the incoming power!!!
So, is this the right power supply and how can I connect this? 2x12 or in serie?

Thanks in advance.

M.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on February 18, 2013, 06:30:27 PM
I have this power supply

223-8538

Doc: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0028/0900766b800284c0.pdf

I have read almost everything but it still do not get the first thing right, the incoming power!!!
So, is this the right power supply and how can I connect this? 2x12 or in serie?

Thanks in advance.

M.

If your Toroid is a dual secondary with 2 x 12V, I'd wire it in Series to get the required 24V.
Make sure to get the phasing correct- Black dots on your toroid schematic. Here's a reference image that was for Ptrons 2 x15V transformer.
http://www.delabs-circuits.com/cirdir/electric/tables/transformer_types.png
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: ValveTone on February 24, 2013, 01:37:27 PM
Hi Igor,

I still have not received my 2254 stereo kit + power supply after 10 weeks.  Nor have you had the courtesy to respond to my emails or bother checking your tracking information.  Please take care of this issue as soon as possible so we can keep this a civil matter.

Thanks!

Damon
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on April 16, 2013, 08:10:56 AM
Can I use a LM317MT positive adj regulator instead of the LM317TS  T0-220 VOLTAGE REGULATOR, for the power supply?

thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Harpo on April 16, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
0.5A vs. 1.5A at best case lab conditions ...
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on April 16, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
0.5A vs. 1.5A at best case lab conditions ...

So meaning, I have to go for 1.5A I guess? also because it is the stereo 2254c.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: digihead on April 24, 2013, 06:17:31 PM
Got my stereo kit today. 6 weeks to the US for anyone who may wish to know. I'm confident it will be worth the wait.

Thanx

Andrew
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: haima on April 24, 2013, 10:44:03 PM
it's a sweet compressor - definitely worth the wait... :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Winetree on April 24, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
I've had my completed 2254c unit sitting on the shelf for a long time.
I don't understand something about the calibration procedure.
Any help? See image.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on June 03, 2013, 02:52:19 PM
So I am testing the power supply and I got 37 Volt on C1 and 24,06 Volt on the end. So that is good :)
But is there any use for the R6 (for adjustment only) section, the +CV and -CV?

Do I have to ground with G2?

Cheers,

M.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: dacapitan on July 06, 2013, 03:36:53 AM
Hi

I'm busy building from Igors stereo kit and I have gotten 4x 470uF 25v tall and thin looking gold and black electrolithic caps and 2x 470uF 16v thin and short silver and blue electrolithic caps (all radial)

The bom calls for
1 (2 stereo) 470u 25v low ESR for C15'
1 (2) 470..680u 25v audio for C4
1 (2) 330..470u 25v audio for C"17

Now logic would tell me this is 4x audio caps for C4 and C"17 ie. the 4x 470u 25v gold and black caps I've been given.

and 2x low ESR caps for C15' ie. the 2x 470u 16v silver and blue caps I've been given.

My question is given that the bom calls for a 25v cap for all of these and I have been given a 16v cap, presumably this is okay as Igor made the kit - but is it okay for C15' to be 16v if not is 16v better at c4 or c"17?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 18, 2013, 07:59:34 AM
Finally on testing the mother....
When I switch comp IN, no sound. Bypass is sound.
Any thoughts?

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 20, 2013, 05:58:38 AM
Maybe my trannies are reversed?
So intr1 = carnhill VTB9045
and intr2 = carnhill VTB9046

Can anyone confirm this is correct?

Thanks.

M.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 20, 2013, 10:38:10 AM
Hey MrBlomski
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the label on your back transformer is 9045, which I believe is backwards. Look at my pic here. I have 9045 in the other position.
I finally got this thing put together. It fires up with no black smoke!!
Tomorrow I will take it to the studio and see how it sounds. I can't wait.
Edit: The photo didn't copy. The post is #643. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 20, 2013, 03:00:43 PM
Hey MrBlomski
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the label on your back transformer is 9045, which I believe is backwards. Look at my pic here. I have 9045 in the other position.
I finally got this thing put together. It fires up with no black smoke!!
Tomorrow I will take it to the studio and see how it sounds. I can't wait.
Edit: The photo didn't copy. The post is #643.

But youre INTR1 = VTB9046 and youre INTR2 = VTB9045
So could I switched and reversed INTR1 with INTR2 ?!!??!? Thats a double suck :)

I trace the carnhill pinouts with a multimeter and came with the following results

INTR1 = VTB9045 for low level microphone input
INTR1 Pin1 Molex PRI + = Pin 7 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin2 Molex PRI - = Pin 10 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin3 Molex GND = Pin 11 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin4 Molex SEC + = Pin 2+3+4 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin5 Molex SEC - = Pin 5 VTB9045

INTR2 = VTB9046 for line level input
INTR2 Pin1 Molex PRI + = Pin 2 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin2 Molex PRI - = Pin 5 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin3 Molex GND = Pin 11 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin4 Molex Sec + = Pin 7 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin5 Molex Sec - = Pin 6 + 10 VTB9046

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 20, 2013, 04:37:27 PM
Hey MrBlomski
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the label on your back transformer is 9045, which I believe is backwards. Look at my pic here. I have 9045 in the other position.
I finally got this thing put together. It fires up with no black smoke!!
Tomorrow I will take it to the studio and see how it sounds. I can't wait.
Edit: The photo didn't copy. The post is #643.

So could I switched and reversed INTR1 with INTR2 ?!!??!? Thats a double suck :)

I trace the carnhill pinouts with a multimeter and came with the following results

INTR1 = VTB9045 for low level microphone input
INTR1 Pin1 Molex PRI + = Pin 7 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin2 Molex PRI - = Pin 10 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin3 Molex GND = Pin 11 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin4 Molex SEC + = Pin 2+3+4 VTB9045
INTR1 Pin5 Molex SEC - = Pin 5 VTB9045

INTR2 = VTB9046 for line level input
INTR2 Pin1 Molex PRI + = Pin 2 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin2 Molex PRI - = Pin 5 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin3 Molex GND = Pin 11 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin4 Molex Sec + = Pin 7 VTB9046
INTR2 Pin5 Molex Sec - = Pin 6 + 10 VTB9046
But youre INTR1 = VTB9046 and youre INTR2 = VTB9045

Yes, it looks like a double suck!
I believe it is:
INTR1: Input-line VTB9046, 31267, TF10016,...
INTR2: mic VTB9045, 10468, TF10015,...
I was going to say that you could just unplug the molex connectors and swap the tranny's but it looks like some solder removal time!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 20, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
And I have to short what kambo said at post #97 I see.
Hmmmz, why o why I looked over this SO !#$%%! IMPORTED PIECE OF MATERIAL :o

 ;D

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 20, 2013, 07:50:37 PM
I hear you, man. I remember being somewhat confused when I built these also. Hey, at least nothing may not have blown up!
If you are bored sometime look at the Fairchild pm670 thread ...150+ posts and tons of problems.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 22, 2013, 12:53:47 PM
Do I have to shorten the trannies if I solder them directly on the PCB?


9046 line in
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10(-) to molex
connect 6 to GRD molex

9045 interstage :
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10
6, ground molex
-------------------------------------------

EDIT: on The PCB is it shorted.

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 23, 2013, 01:51:20 AM
Do I have to shorten the trannies if I solder them directly on the PCB?


9046 line in
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10(-) to molex
connect 6 to GRD molex

9045 interstage :
primary :
short pin 3-4
connect 2(+) - 5(-) to molex

secondary :
short pin 8-9
connect 7(+) - 10
6, ground molex
This all looks correct. I'm not sure as for needing to short the necessary transformer pins when soldering directly to the pcb, as I used the molex connectors and shorted the pins on the transformers. I'd take a multimeter and check for continuity on the pcb connections that need shorting, for instance pin 3, and pin 4 on the primary pcb. This way you can confirm if you still need to short them, or if they are done so already on the pcb.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on July 23, 2013, 08:47:08 AM
Desolderd the trannies and put them in the right place.
Test connections and its a ok!
Put some juice on it check voltage, seems ok!

Put a 1 KHz test tone into the compressor, bypass works, i got sound,
Set compression in, sound is gone. again.
Check Hz on T1 line Pri + and - Sec + and - all got 1 KHz

Check on T2 no Hz or what so ever. T2 is not broken I checked.

So whats next? Anyone?

Edit: I hear noise when it is switched in and the noise becomes louder when I makeup the gain.
 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 23, 2013, 07:00:44 PM
Desolderd the trannies and put them in the right place.
Test connections and its a ok!
Put some juice on it check voltage, seems ok!

Put a 1 KHz test tone into the compressor, bypass works, i got sound,
Set compression in, sound is gone. again.
Check Hz on T1 line Pri + and - Sec + and - all got 1 KHz

Check on T2 no Hz or what so ever. T2 is not broken I checked.

So whats next? Anyone?

Edit: I hear noise when it is switched in and the noise becomes louder when I makeup the gain.

Check all of your wiring, Molex connections, switches, and components for correct values. If you still strike out, then pull out the schematics and trace the signal with a scope or signal tracer, and see where it stops.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on July 26, 2013, 11:57:04 AM
somebody know if pcb are still available ?
peace.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on July 26, 2013, 12:11:53 PM
I believe our pals at ramshacklerecording are putting in the effort to make some of igor's fine projects available soon. Im sure there will be a post here or in the white market when they are ready or toss them an email at gmail to get on their mailing list.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: prescott on September 12, 2013, 02:54:35 PM
Hello!

Does anybody has a stereo PCB set for sale?

I'd like to buy :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: prescott on September 23, 2013, 09:37:55 AM
Ok, i've bought a set on the black market luckily...

Can someone help me to find the front panel corel file, that Igor mentioned before?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on September 24, 2013, 12:33:33 AM
Ok, i've bought a set on the black market luckily...

Can someone help me to find the front panel corel file, that Igor mentioned before?

Thanks!
I don't have the files but,
I'd hit up Tat Parusha over at diyracked. That's where I got mine.
Also Dan's front panels in the White Market has them.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on November 09, 2013, 09:31:38 AM
Ok, somebody can help me out here please because I dont know where I am at the moment.
I do not have sound on the unit when I turn the comp IN.
I checked the +CV on the power supply and it is +3VDC
I also Trimmed the BIAS at 4.7 VDC.

So I am following the signal path.
Bypass, signal is going in and out.
Comp IN, no sound!
Checked signal path wit multimeter beep and the VCA section seems ok.
btw, can you hear the RELAY switching by ear if it's switched on/off?


EDIT:

Problem found, it where the bc214 transistors that where smoked because of the reversed placed carnhill transformers.
I replaced them with BC560C

EDIT2:

Had a hum, connected pin 2 from OPT_MTR to ground chassis, hum gone. Also described page 16.


Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: whomper on January 08, 2014, 02:19:27 AM
Hi,

About to finish building a unit and my 1n4153 that I bought from futurlec.com look a little different from what I expected. They are orange with a blue stripe and measure on average 0.6v. As I had some issues with futurlec.com in the past, I wanted to check whether someone used the same batch of diodes.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: whomper on January 15, 2014, 01:55:55 AM
There's a strange problem with my unit that for some reason eludes me.

Connecting signal to any channel I get a quitter and distorted signal on the other channel's OUT although nothing is connected on its IN jack... ? As fast as I can tell, the only place where the two boards interact is at the power supply board.

Can you guys share some hints as to who to approach this strange issue?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: whomper on January 19, 2014, 10:42:23 AM
There's a strange problem with my unit that for some reason eludes me.

Connecting signal to any channel I get a quitter and distorted signal on the other channel's OUT although nothing is connected on its IN jack... ? As fast as I can tell, the only place where the two boards interact is at the power supply board.

Can you guys share some hints as to who to approach this strange issue?

Ok, found my problem. I mistakenly connected OP_MTR pin1 and not pin2 to chassis, which caused distorted sound leakage between the two boards, as well as distort any single board by itself. Connected pin2 to chassis and all is great now!

Calibration was a little hassle and I eventually calibrated first board as much as I could and then tuned the second one to match the first. Tested in linked mode as well.

Great unit!
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Screamer on May 14, 2014, 06:14:47 AM
Hello !

I need some help on my stereo 2254C (Igor). I would be really happy if someone could help me to resolved my problem.  ;)

Power is okay 24V, All led and Vu meter is on, All transformer is connected and works (VTB9046, VTB9045, VTB9049. I tested by injecting an input signal on each.)
When my unit is bypass (switch), it's okay. Normal ....
but when my 2254 is on, I have a very big distortion on the 2 channels. Full distortion mix with input signal. Much more distortion that signal.

I think my problem is in the section "B183.110" (above the sidechain HPF on schematic).
I have approximately 21-23V on the primary of my output transformer  :o !!! I think this is the problem...

That is my tensions (on the 2 channels)
- Unit Power = 23,9V
- R7'' = 4,7V (Okay, I adjust the RV1)
- CPS''1 (+) = 22,7V (Okay, why not, I think is normal, There is just R44 10ohm before 24V)
- Collector of my 2N3055 (case of the transistor) = 21,3 V (very strange I think  ???)

And on the schematic (if I understand good) The primary output transformer is connected to CPS''1 (+) and Collector 2N3055, 22,7V and 21,3V (OP_TR1 and OP_TR2). I think is not normal.....

I hope that someone can check that tensions to help me  :(

And Idea ? (I spent a month to check all, no result)
Thanks.

(Sorry for my english)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: MrBlomski on May 14, 2014, 02:49:01 PM
Did you try to caibrate the beast?
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Screamer on May 14, 2014, 04:09:41 PM
The "beast" is too much noisy to be calibrated. Makeup at 0, always noise on output.
I can just calibrate only the RV1 with 4,7 V on R7''.

Thanks for your answer.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: Screamer on May 16, 2014, 09:03:00 AM
Does anyone know the values of C19, R54 and R47 for the input transformer VTB9046 ?
Thanks  ;)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on October 04, 2014, 07:14:15 PM
Does anyone know the values of C19, R54 and R47 for the input transformer VTB9046 ?
Thanks  ;)
I used the values in the schematics
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: dacapitan on October 16, 2014, 01:45:43 AM
can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono

EDIT : hope you matched your diodes an both units...

I am a bit confused with wiring up the Stereo/Dual Mono switch. I noticed there is a "Link" on the control PCB and a "LNK" on the mainboards too? - I am not sure if both of these are supposed to be connected to the switch?

The way I understand the quote above is depicted by "B" in my diagram - which is the correct way to wire this? A or B or Neither - Any help will be much appreciated!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on November 15, 2014, 02:09:53 AM
can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono

EDIT : hope you matched your diodes an both units...

I am a bit confused with wiring up the Stereo/Dual Mono switch. I noticed there is a "Link" on the control PCB and a "LNK" on the mainboards too? - I am not sure if both of these are supposed to be connected to the switch?

The way I understand the quote above is depicted by "B" in my diagram - which is the correct way to wire this? A or B or Neither - Any help will be much appreciated!
I believe your b drawing is correct. To pull a quote from Reanimator's build docs: "can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono."

Cheers
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: dacapitan on November 16, 2014, 01:38:14 AM
can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono

EDIT : hope you matched your diodes an both units...

I am a bit confused with wiring up the Stereo/Dual Mono switch. I noticed there is a "Link" on the control PCB and a "LNK" on the mainboards too? - I am not sure if both of these are supposed to be connected to the switch?

The way I understand the quote above is depicted by "B" in my diagram - which is the correct way to wire this? A or B or Neither - Any help will be much appreciated!
I believe your b drawing is correct. To pull a quote from Reanimator's build docs: "can you see then "link" on control pcb ... you just put a switch to that, and connect to second unit...
when they short, its stereo... when they are no-short dual mono."

Cheers

Hi Duantro,

Thanks for getting back to me on this - much appreciated! Sure, I read that in the build docs too - Just wasn't sure about the "LNK" on the main board. Thanks, I'll just use a SPDT switch to the control PCB then - thank you! :)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: jaycee on January 29, 2015, 01:07:31 PM
Hi guys.
I have been building my 2254c, left channel works fine, the right one saturates a lot, I have to pull down the input saturation a lot to have a clear signal.

It seems the signal saturates at the b183.112 step, as I've tested by reinjecting the signal into the working channel at different steps.
So I've checked all components for this part of the amp, changed the transistors to new ones, it hasn"t changed anything. I've checked all resistors, the soldering...

Now about the voltages, I get 20Volts after R28 on this defect channel whereas I get around 7.5V on the channel that works... On the working channel R28 gets hot but well the channel seems to work properly...
I feel like I've tested everything and not found the solution.

Anyone has advices or voltage references I shoud get at the B183.112 part? I really don't wont to pay a local tech, but feel like I've spent hours on this problem already, any advice is welcome :)

Thanks
JC
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: prescott on May 02, 2015, 05:29:35 AM
Can someone upload this again?

The build manual from Reanimatorstudio

The link is not working on the first page.

Thanks!

Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: duantro on May 02, 2015, 08:28:33 PM
Can someone upload this again?

The build manual from Reanimatorstudio

The link is not working on the first page.

Thanks!
PM or email me your email address and I'll send it over.
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: SIXTYNINER on April 15, 2017, 03:13:53 PM
PM or email me your email address and I'll send it over.
.....long time ago he start a trhead about ....
but if i'm not wrong no much helps about....
 ;D

personally i'll go with this one
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=62712.120
much recent , nice support , full help documentation ,

a so much better 2254  project (i.m.h.o.)  :)

ps:
..another "Igor" ?
hmmm.......  ::)
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: JayDeeP on June 09, 2017, 10:42:49 AM
Just thought I'd post another finished build.  Sounds fantastic.  I bought the ancient L0116a output transformers from Dan Alexander about 13 years ago. 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: madreza on October 18, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Hi Guys
I'm trying to calibrate the beast .....
I'm stuck at that level :
"With the compressor switched in adjust GAIN trimmer to get unity gain."
I can't get unity gain .....   I'm -4.5dBs Under that what should I do ?

EDIT : Seems the problem is on 1 Channel ....
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: madreza on October 20, 2017, 12:56:55 PM
Ok , still need some help on the calibration process
if someone can help ... :)
on my second channel I get -20dB on the XLR
but do I have to turn RV3 Till I get 0 on the VU meter ? 
Title: Re: 2254C build/support thread
Post by: r2d2 on November 02, 2017, 04:38:17 PM
Just thought I'd post another finished build.  Sounds fantastic.  I bought the ancient L0116a output transformers from Dan Alexander about 13 years ago.

…..That Neotek looks so nice  ;)
cheers
ps
what carnhill in the "mid" stage?