GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Filters/Equalizers => Topic started by: Igor on March 10, 2010, 08:31:54 PM

Title: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 10, 2010, 08:31:54 PM
Hi to all!

Finally, I got time to move with this EQ project.

Inspired by Helios. It is not a clone (to avoid debates :)

It started here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=36243.0

AAAAAAnd................

Let me introduce cynically called 69-EQ.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/frontpanel.jpg)

This can be excellent project for beginners, very simple assembly,
simple electronics, output part of BA-283 used for makeup stage.
(This is IMHO best makeup amp for Helios inspired passive EQ circuit sound-wise).
From the other side, all controlls are stepped...
This way EQ can be used for mastering as well, if precision high quality comp's used.

Inductors: Carenhills layout done exactly by .pdf on their webside. Not tested yet.
(If someone want to get free pair of EQ pcb's, he/she can test them with
the Carenhills and post the results).

I can offer inductors which are wound locally and tested. Soundwise, very, very nice
(all you know, I hate "punchy crispy big" sound talks, better to hear once).

The passive EQ itselves can be used with virtually any dual stage pre-amp,
like 1072 clones, DC servo'ed Jenssen's circuit (like on JLM website), etc.
Just insert it in between first and second stage, and use more gain on second stage.

There's no need of expensive ELMA switch. Solution with the use of cheap Lorlin
is worked out. (BTW, Lorlins are cheap but very reliable).

There are two output options on makeup card, choke or 1166-like transformer.
It is possible to use 2:1 input transformer, stay unbalanced
at the input (I don't like this idea) or use kinda THAT line receiver,
"breadboard" holes reserved at the "input transformer" part of
make-up PCB.

People who like an idea, write here if you want the kits will appear on my WM tread,
more people-less price.

I think experienced person can finnish this EQ within a day, and beginner within
a week....
 
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1030217.jpg)

EQ is tested, PCB layout polished, final version of inductors wound and
whole thing was listened. I have to put all things inside the rack,
and here you can see some preliminary photos, schematic, EQ pcb stuffing.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/inside_2.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/inside_1.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/front_1.jpg)

Links to updated front panel layout, schem/pcb:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/69_ver1_2_schem_1.png
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/69_ver1_2_pcb_top_1.png
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/69_ver1_2_pcb_btm_1.png
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/69_fp.jpg

Inductors comes with the dot at one side:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/inductor_dot.jpg

Installing the inductors on PCB:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/inductors.jpg

Make-up boards:

Output half of BA-283, place for input transformer reserved:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ba283_mkup_pcb.png
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ba283_mkup_sch.png

Hel*os inspired amplifier:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/hel_amp_pcb.png
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/hel_amp_schem.png

BOM's, etc-here:

http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/thumbnails.php?album=387

For panels, you can ask Dan or Purusha, or make your own
(Fell free to ask for Corel file if you ordered the kit/pcb).

Some notes.
I got hum at -67 dbV induced by quiet toroidal transformer from right channel
(closer to power supply) when low boost was at the maximum (+16db) at 60Hz freq.
Nothing unexpected (huge 10H inductor picks up the hum).
I aded mu-metal shield to toroid, and hum gone to -78dbV (total noise of channel).
However, I'd recommend external 24V power supply or place power transformer far as possible from inductors (in this case, when operated from lab power supply, total noise of channel was about -86 dbV
when all controls are at max.)
Of course, this is UNWEIGHTED level, which gives not so bad S/N.

IMHO, input transformer's best ratio is 2:1, all equivalents to LO31267 will work,
anyway, you can try other transformers.

Sound-wise: I hate punchy-crispy sh*t talks. For me, it sounded simply great.
We did some tests at friend's studio, I liked this EQ very much on drums and distorted guitars.
Very good EQ for BD, snare, drum bus before compressor,
bass, even can go good on vocals.
I saw video where folk screwed all controls of EQ up...fun, but at 2-3 db boost/cut
this eq  worked best for me. Again, this is my taste.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: mpc3000limited on March 10, 2010, 08:59:13 PM
 ;D Great Job Igor! are you selling the BA-283 PCB along with the EQ PCB's? very nice as always!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 10, 2010, 09:05:59 PM
This is not full BA-283, only the output part.

I think to make 69 modular as possible.
I.e. EQ PCB's, makeup boards, bypass boards will be offered separately.
This way you can use makeup boards with your Pultecs, and EQ pcb's with
preamp's...or use your make-up boards, the limit is the fantazy.
I can offer limited qty (like 20-30) of EQ kits by very low price,
it will be cheaper than buy everything from different suppliers and pay shipping.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: MikoKensington on March 10, 2010, 10:07:50 PM
Interested in estimated pricing for complete EQ kits and just boards with inductors.  Thanks Igor!  Project looks great!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on March 10, 2010, 10:43:20 PM
hey igor! looks great :)

i'd be down for 2 channels of the EQ boards & parts kits. possibly 4 channels if i'm flush at the time it all goes down.

do you have any plans for a 500 series version? that would be very handy to me (and i imagine most of the other 51X rack owners!)

did you try the EQ with the original helios gain cards circuit? when i make mine i might try breadboarding the original input card... compare that to the neve style... also the TG style gain stages could sound good too. i like the modular approach!

cheers,
haima
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on March 10, 2010, 11:21:11 PM
Looks nice. :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Joechris on March 11, 2010, 03:11:56 AM
I will grab 4 eq kits "by very low price"
Thanks Igor
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: snipsnip on March 11, 2010, 03:19:39 AM
interested in a pair....
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: matta on March 11, 2010, 03:39:25 AM
Hi Igor,

AWESOME! Again, amazing work!

Keen on 4-10 sets, it all depends on costs. I'd like to see options for a FULL kit, a PCB + Inductors and PCB only prices.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: evilcat on March 11, 2010, 04:16:50 AM
Awesome Igor !
How much for a full kit ?

Ben A.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: kambo on March 11, 2010, 06:06:01 AM
i have been avoiding this EQ ever from the start, but looks very handsome...

after checking the sound with BA, i think i will use pair of tubes for gain stage  ;D
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Brizco on March 11, 2010, 06:14:44 AM
definitly in for 2 kits (when happening) or 2 eq pcb's
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 11, 2010, 06:40:14 AM
2 kits with inductors please  ;D (possibly four)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: substitute on March 11, 2010, 08:01:03 AM
Super cool!  Kits, or at least the inductors sounds helpful.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on March 11, 2010, 09:09:32 AM
2 Kits for me !!
I can't resist .......!!! ::)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: discobloud on March 11, 2010, 10:28:38 AM
I'm in for 4.  I just tested one of the newer 500 series... thanks
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Baltimore on March 11, 2010, 11:06:33 AM
I'd be in for a pair of eq boards+inductors. Think I'll use a different make up stage.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ChrioN on March 11, 2010, 11:46:32 AM
2-4 kits depending on priceage
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on March 11, 2010, 02:06:40 PM
Two kits here
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: wolfgang on March 11, 2010, 02:19:21 PM
Interested on 2 Kits!!! depending on price!

regards,
Wolfgang
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: tomugli on March 11, 2010, 02:23:17 PM
interested in 4 x pcb / pcb and inductors dependant upon price.

looks fantastic by the way! :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: SIXTYNINER on March 11, 2010, 04:37:41 PM
69?
 :o
...another well done project!

6t9r
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: mata_haze on March 11, 2010, 06:30:56 PM
I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN I AM IN !

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

M.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: leadbreath on March 12, 2010, 12:48:07 AM
def. interested in 2 x kits/inductors/pcb's

shot
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Grand Master Audio on March 12, 2010, 02:50:31 AM
ohhh....go on then!

 ;D
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: electrokhan on March 12, 2010, 03:27:20 AM
interested in 2  :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: mylesgm on March 12, 2010, 07:31:43 AM
as if anybody on this board is not going to want in...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: SIXTYNINER on March 12, 2010, 07:45:42 AM
kits include transformers ?
6t9r
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: hobiesound on March 13, 2010, 06:26:41 AM
id love at least 2 boards... i have a pcb layout for the helios amp cards if anybody is interested.

greetings,

Thomas
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 13, 2010, 05:31:07 PM
Great. Here we go.

I do have a plans for 500 series, but in future
(not now:), as well as some already started projects for 51x.

Yes, I tried this circuit with original Helios amplifiers,
it was done for Kenneth Burgess (local studio owner) at 2003.
He is happy with the sound, me too.

I prefer the sound of this EQ circuit with Neve makeup amplifier.
This is the matter of taste, and the reason why I offer EQ boards separately from
make-up amplifier. It is not a problem to do some Helios amlifier makeup boards
if there will be many people who want it.
I almost finnished HeNe, the motherboard with relay-switched both types of input,
output amps, transformers, input circuit, etc. HeNe+69 EQ makes very versatile
pre-amp with a lot of choice. Again, all this is later.

Cool than.

Approx. prices will be:

One set of 69 EQ PCB's: EUR50 incl. shipping;
Stereo set of 69 EQ PCB's: EUR92 incl. shipping.
Makeup board (1/2 BA283 with all possible options): EUR18,
if ordered with other PCB's.
Bypass relay board for NC3MAH/NC3FAH XLR's: EUR8,
if ordered with other PCB's.
24V power supply board (like for 2254C or 33609 projects): EUR12,
if ordered with other PCB's.

Mono kit for 69 EQ: EUR170 incl. shipping
(PCB's, all parts like in BOM posted at first page, inductors, all switches,
modified LO switch, high quality caps, etc).
Makeup or bypass boards are not included in kit.

If there will be more than 30 orders, kits will be availale.

Stereo kit for 69 EQ: EUR330 incl. shipping.

The price on PCB's is final, but the price of kits can be bit lower
if there are more than 50 mono sets total.

Availability:

Pcb's: approx. 10th April.
Kits: depending on interest, I prefer to run pre-payed group order once,
as I can have some time for this now. If we do it in March,
I will be able to ship the kits approx. 15th April.

Let's do a feeler.

People who interested in kits/PCB's, please write here something like:

"Count me in for 2 stereo kits".

If there are questions, feel free to ask.



Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Nadege on March 14, 2010, 06:06:36 AM
Count me in for 2 stereo kits !
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on March 14, 2010, 06:45:01 AM
count me in for 4 channels of the eq pcbs  :)

maybe a couple of neve makeup pcbs too... have to think about that part a bit.

BTW - would you consider selling the just the inductors (if your ones work out cheaper than the carnhill ones...)? i wouldn't want a full kit, but i'd love the inductors...

thanks igor!
haima
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Brizco on March 14, 2010, 07:35:16 AM
Count me in for 1 stereo kit and the helios amp-boards!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Joechris on March 14, 2010, 08:29:47 AM
What is the size of the eq PCB?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: snipsnip on March 14, 2010, 11:20:35 AM
Does the kit include all components?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2010, 01:27:08 PM
The size of EQ PCB is 190.5x35.5mm, 2 channels will fit in
every possible 1RU case.

Yes, the full kit does include all components,
exactly as in BOM (see 1st post of this tread).
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on March 14, 2010, 02:32:18 PM
Alot of you guys have probably seen this but, for those who haven't:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiA116Tjf5E

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on March 14, 2010, 02:34:48 PM
"I can offer inductors which are wound locally and tested. Soundwise, very, very nice
(all you know, I hate "punchy crispy big" sound talks, better to hear once)."

What about these inductors Igor? Can we know pricing for these?
Cheers
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2010, 02:51:22 PM
Inductors: RM8/RM10 ferrite high quality cores.
There's a small local factory offering very good prices for winding services.
Really nice sound-wise. I did not tested Carenhills with this circuit,
but tried few different variants before final choice.
The inductor's price is inside the kits, exactly same price like
a pair of VTB90XX, excluding VAT. I.e. kit pricing done by way
like you ordering the components from 2-3 suppliers and adding the shipping.

Another kit option is PCB's+inductors+switches, but not sure you
will save on buying the rest by yourself. If many people will persist on
this, I will do it, but please mind, there will be only one option for kits:
full kit or pcb's+inductors+switches (partial kit).
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on March 14, 2010, 03:02:15 PM
Saving the money isn't so much a concern Igor, just the option to build a little differently if one wants to.
Maybe use all polystyrenes? Maybe use local inductors other than Carnhill? etc, etc..

Customize.  :)


Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2010, 03:15:30 PM
Customize: there's a....certain level of
cutomisation when it becomes horror....
For full customization, buy PCB's only :)
Please imagine:
Saturday orders:
3x mono sets+ba283 make-up
2x stereo sets
1x kit w/inductors no caps
8x kits w/caps no inductors with Helios amp cards
etc (about 30 each week)
I really don't want to end up with using ritalin to avoid head explosing :)

From the other side, I can supply really nyce 'styrene caps....
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on March 14, 2010, 03:56:42 PM
My head would explode from that too. :)

"Another kit option is PCB's+inductors+switches........I will do it, but please mind, there will be only one option for kits: full kit or pcb's+inductors+switches (partial kit)."

So yes...I would be interested in(for example):
2 x PCB's+inductors(local wound)+switches
2 x makeup amp pcb's
1 x power supply board
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2010, 07:51:41 PM
People, let's do next thing.
This is not first "cue" to make kits as PCB's+inductors+switches only,
I got some mails and pm's about this, ok, just write here
what is better for you.
Approx. price of EQ pcb's+inductors+switches kit is EUR127 incl. shipping.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on March 14, 2010, 09:22:58 PM
I'm in for ONE COMPLETE STEREO KIT !
 ;D
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on March 15, 2010, 03:10:11 AM
I'm in for one complete stereo kit.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on March 15, 2010, 05:26:40 AM
I'm in for ONE COMPLETE STEREO KIT !
 ;D

me too...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 15, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
Cool than. I ordering this week the EQ PCB's and makeup boards.
Helios amp boards will be available too.
The boards will be ready to ship approx. April 15th.
There will be limited qty of kits (20 mono sets).
Kits will be ready to ship approx. 25th April.
Please visit here
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771
for ordering.

For additional docs like makeup PCB's, bypass boards, etc. please check first post of this tread.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: MikoKensington on March 15, 2010, 06:23:35 PM
Do the 69 PCB's have a bypass integrated, or just control for your bypass PCB's?  I'm trying to figure out what PCB's I actually need. 
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 15, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
Yes, there's an option to control external bypass PCB's from EQ ON switch.

If the EQ used in-between preamp input and output gain stages, no need for bypass PCB's.
Simply don't install diodes and LED, or use LED if EQ IN indication required.
In this case, DPDT ON-ON toggle used.

If EQ used with make-up stage, and hardware bypass is not necessary,
you can run it without bypass boards as well.

If EQ OFF means total bypass, than bypass board needed.
Don't install D1 and use DPDT ON-OFF toggle.

If you like to use three options:
EQ with makeup amp-up position of switch
Bypass-central position of switch
Make-up amp only-down pos. of switch,
use ON-OFF-ON DPDT and install both diodes and LED.

Connection to bypass boards.

+24V goes to EQ PCB, to connector marked 24V, pin1; -24V goes to pin2.
Take 24V direct from power supply, not from makeup PCB.
On relay board, there's connector named "bypass switch",
short its pins 1+2 (make bypass board always "in")
and connect "V_rel" connector at bypass board to "byp" connector on EQ PCB.

V_rel1 (+) to byp1
V_rel2 (-) to byp2

Sounds bit messy, but it is only 4 wires.
In simple words: power goes from power supply to EQ pcb;
EQ pcb connected to bypass board;
bypass board is always switched "on" and switch on EQ PCB controls bypass board power.

Hope it is clear, I will post the drawing soon.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 16, 2010, 05:19:03 AM
Do the kits include parts for the make up amp boards?  Also, you mentioned a HeNe motherboard, does this mean a switchable make up amp?  Are these available?

Still interested in 2 kits.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on March 16, 2010, 12:48:38 PM
in for 1 complete stereo kit + helios amps pcb x 2 + 1 x power supply pcb

yeah!!!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: KrIVIUM2323 on March 16, 2010, 12:50:25 PM
Hi all.

Igor what is output impedance of eq circuit (before amp board)?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ddt on March 16, 2010, 03:48:11 PM
Hiya..

Here's what the panel will look like, you can sign up here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35422.msg471576#msg471576

(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/dan_ddt2/69_panel3.jpg)

Cheers,
Dan
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 16, 2010, 10:39:44 PM
Dan, front panel looks supercool! Black anodised Al, Elma knobs....YUMMIE!

Quote
Igor what is output impedance of eq circuit (before amp board)?
Approx. 4kOhm.

I found one thing, BTW. This EQ sounds sweet when feed from 2:1 line level
transformer, like 31267 etc.

I found in my junkyada input trunny from 3M tapemachine, 3:1, this was even bit sweeter,
very nice lows. OK, OK, I told I hate sound talks, all this is matter of taste :)

Secondary of input trunny should be terminated with load resistor and Zobel network.

(OT :)


Quote
Do the kits include parts for the make up amp boards?
 

No, the kit is for passive EQ only. You can order makeup boards separately.

I will know the final price of kits tomorrow.

There will be 20 mono kits, and I prefer pre-payment for them, as here almost no any commercial effort.

Quote
Also, you mentioned a HeNe motherboard, does this mean a switchable make up amp?  Are these available?

Yes, this thingy is almost finnished. It will take some time to test, fix, etc,
byt...preliminary, HeNe is motherboard with input relay-switched circuit,
two input transformers and respecting input amplifiers, He type output amp and Ne type output amp
with option for choke/trafo. There's a place for 69 EQ between the input and output gain stages.

This way, we can use Ne input with 69 and He output, He input and Ne out,
or be completely 1272'ish, or be completely Hellish.

There are separate gain controls on input amps and common "out" control for both sections.
Freaky a bit, but can be usefull :)

I'd like to know if there are people interested in NeHe boards. But please mind,
it will take some month to finalize it in beetween other things.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 17, 2010, 08:33:19 AM
I found one thing, BTW. This EQ sounds sweet when feed from 2:1 line level
transformer, like 31267 etc.

Great, this is what I'll do, is the secondary in series or parallel?


Secondary of input trunny should be terminated with load resistor and Zobel network.

(OT :)


Perhaps you can help me with the best load resistor and cap in this situation? 600 ohm? Strapped over the secondary? 

And a 2n2 cap (I'm referencing this thread http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33778.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33778.0))

Excuse the noob question
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 17, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
AAAA... Here is The StParic's day. I love this forum and...cheers!!!!Will try to post something on WM thread.
It should be, because...Patrick and Irelands.... like Belorussians...same culture....I think it will be St Patric's offer. Huh, nEver blend Franciskiner with Laphroaig..........
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Sorr on March 18, 2010, 03:06:45 AM
I am interested in 1 X PCB and "local" inductors.
Thanks .
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: SIXTYNINER on March 18, 2010, 09:49:44 AM
 ???
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 18, 2010, 11:23:27 AM
No, the kit is for passive EQ only. You can order makeup boards separately

don't think trafos are in the kit dude...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: MikoKensington on March 18, 2010, 11:59:31 AM
Since the transformer is part of the make-up amplifier and not part of the filter section, I would assume it's not included.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 18, 2010, 07:49:00 PM
Patrick and Irelands.... like Belorussians...same culture....I think it will be St Patric's offer. Huh, nEver blend Franciskiner with Laphroaig..........

don't forget the scots  ;D it's the Gaelic thing....

Yes, never put anything in a laphroaig except... A single ice cube in a 12 yr old (this is called summer whisky), a spot of water in an 18 yr old, and nothing if it's any older.

My wife and I may end up in the Laphroaig distillery on islay in a couple of weeks, we're doing a 'hillstillery' tour of Scotland in this
(http://www.caledonianclassiccampers.co.uk/images/200x150/005.jpg)

I'll think of you as I raise my glass :)
  
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on March 22, 2010, 05:56:24 AM
I very like Quarter Cask as it is, without any water or ice.
Anyway, I have strange taste, and sometimes drink single malt with white beer.
White envy about your tour! Tell me how it was :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 22, 2010, 06:32:46 AM
Sure will  :)

A question about the helios...  The make up gain board schematic calls for a switch to set the make up but the front panels don't seem to have a place for make up.. Am I missing something?

Also, any ideas on the Zobel and Loading question I posted a few days back?

Jim
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on April 14, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Hi, sorry for long time getting back.
Switch is optional part of make-up boards, normal option is
trimmer to adjust unity gain.
Zobel and loading depends on transformers. In case of 31267, use series
windings connection on both pri an sec, and 2k2 in parallel with 2n2 load on secondary.
For other trafos, you have to choose proper Zobel network.
Will post more pictures of finished 69 soon.
PCB's arrived, as well as 10H inductors; 200/760mH inductors will be ready at Sunday.
Will ship PCB's tomorrow or Sunday, kits about a week later.
Sorry for delay with PCB's, it was unexpected.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on April 14, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
I uploaded some photos and updates at the first post.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on May 10, 2010, 07:19:34 AM
just received the boards. thanks igor! one question regarding your bom.
for the switches you say that per pcb are 1 lorlin CK1059 needed and 4 CK1060. the farnell order numbers you provided are swapped.
thats confusing. so what is right in your bom, farnell order number or the suppliers order number?
thanks, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on May 10, 2010, 07:25:40 AM
At new PCB version, 5 pieces of 1x12 Lorlins. Hope this is clear.
No need anymore for modified 2x6 switch, just insert 1x12 Lorlin with right direction
(key look down, like at all switches as well).
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on May 10, 2010, 07:37:24 AM
okay, so 5 x lorlin CK1059 1x12 SPST (farnell 1123699).
thanks, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on May 11, 2010, 07:43:52 AM
Yep. Tell us how it goes with building!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on June 07, 2010, 06:28:36 AM
Hi Igor,
is it possible to have a BOM and an explanation of the various options for the Neve-MakeUp board 183 ??

For example:
the cap in C4 is marked 224 ,  this means 224 pF ????


Thanks

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on June 07, 2010, 11:54:22 AM
224=220nF=0.22uF
I used to put ceramic bypass caps 0.22uF 50V X7R...
(as I have a huge stock :)
anyway, 0.1uf 50 v ceramic will work fine.

Regarding BA183: it is output half of regular Neve card, same values and same part numbers...
There's tones of info about this.

Anyway, have a questions-feel free to ask.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: dogma on June 10, 2010, 09:50:21 PM
id like a pair please. pcb and inductors.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on June 11, 2010, 03:55:47 AM
Feel free to pm me. This is build/support thread.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on June 14, 2010, 06:59:52 AM
i´am struggling to source some (affordable) caps suiting this project. so far i mixed wima poly mks4/mkp types and some mica´s.
and man, you can spend a fortune on mica´s!  :o
so, following values still missing here...

c1/c18 560p, c4 4n3, c19 1n2, c21 3n9, c22 6n8 and c30 36n! all 7.5mm spacing!

what caps are the other builders using if not working out a complete igor-kit?
if somebody could kindly help me out or point me to right source!?
thanks in advance. alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Rob Flinn on June 14, 2010, 07:03:46 AM
Alex you could try looking here if your in the UK
http://www.bowood-electronics.co.uk/index.php/capacitors-c-4
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on June 14, 2010, 09:37:16 AM
c1/c18 560p, - can be 620pf

c4 4n3, can be 4n7

c19 1n2, can be 1n5

c21 3n9, can be 3n3

c22 6n8

c30 36n! can be 33n

Kits were stuffed with silver-micas, all NOS, where it was possible.

All caps have spacing for 2 sizes at least. Please check BOM:

C-7-10/5: 7.5/10 MM SPACING
C-10-15/6: 7.5/10/12/15 MM SPACING

Mouser have a range of affordable polystyrene's, start from here:
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Xicon/23PS156/?qs=dZZsM4Olg8nxx421Wmhh0Q%3d%3d

Another option for 4n3 etc caps: install 3n3 at top
of the pcb and 1nf in parallel at bottom side. I did it with first prototype.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on June 18, 2010, 10:53:01 AM

If you like to use three options:
EQ with makeup amp-up position of switch
Bypass-central position of switch
Make-up amp only-down pos. of switch,
use ON-OFF-ON DPDT and install both diodes and LED.

Connection to bypass boards.

+24V goes to EQ PCB, to connector marked 24V, pin1; -24V goes to pin2.
Take 24V direct from power supply, not from makeup PCB.
On relay board, there's connector named "bypass switch",
short its pins 1+2 (make bypass board always "in")
and connect "V_rel" connector at bypass board to "byp" connector on EQ PCB.

V_rel1 (+) to byp1
V_rel2 (-) to byp2

Sounds bit messy, but it is only 4 wires.
In simple words: power goes from power supply to EQ pcb;
EQ pcb connected to bypass board;
bypass board is always switched "on" and switch on EQ PCB controls bypass board power.

Hope it is clear, I will post the drawing soon.

drawings on that option would be nice. and why not taking the 24v from the makeup pcb?
thanks, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on June 19, 2010, 06:22:49 AM
I think knobs are not included in the kit if so forget this post, so if there is interest I can buy Elma 023-3520 for 1,57 EURO if I buy 100. Don't know if that is a good price but it is half the price of Farnell.

I'm in for a stereo set at the very least, possibly more :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on June 20, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
ING: put jumper
Connect ground plane on bypass pcb to case
Bypass switch: connect 1+2
VREL1: connect to BYP at EQ PCB
IN goes to input transformer (I prefer 2:1 input transformer here)
OUT goes to output transformer or He makeup board output
RLED normally 3k6....4k7, for use with 69EQ-ommit (not install),
in case of whatever :)
Relays can be 12 or 24V
Series/parallel connection provided at bypass PCB
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp1.jpg
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 16, 2010, 11:54:43 AM
ING: put jumper
Connect ground plane on bypass pcb to case
Bypass switch: connect 1+2
VREL1: connect to BYP at EQ PCB
IN goes to input transformer (I prefer 2:1 input transformer here)
OUT goes to output transformer or He makeup board output
RLED normally 3k6....4k7, for use with 69EQ-ommit (not install),
in case of whatever :)
Relays can be 12 or 24V
Series/parallel connection provided at bypass PCB
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp1.jpg

igor, need some help. my unit passes audio but seems to be in permanent bypass. switchin between the "three options" does nothing.
so what exactly do i have to populate at the bypass pcb?
at the moment i have 24v relays + diode with solder jumper at series connection. solder jumper at ING. solder jumper at 1+2 at bypass switch 3pin molex (is that right?), vrel1 2pin molex connected to byp on eq pcb, and input / output 3pin molex wired with the makeup ba283, no rled installed. groundplane on bypass pcb to case! i measure 24VDC at pin 1 of 2pin molex vrel1 when switching the eq bypass switch either up or down.
any hints? thanks in advance, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 16, 2010, 05:05:09 PM
Quote
so what exactly do i have to populate at the bypass pcb?

One-by-one.

Quote
at the moment i have 24v relays + diode with solder jumper at series connection.


In case of 24V relays, the connection should be PARALLEL, 2 jumpers.
/not the central one, those which right down the relays/

Quote
solder jumper at ING.

Connects input xlr pin 1 to case

Quote
solder jumper at 1+2 at bypass switch 3pin molex (is that right?),
Right, we shorting the bypass switch on bypass pcb and feeding 24V from EQ pcb

Quote
vrel1 2pin molex connected to byp on eq pcb,

Right, 24V from front PCB to bypass board

2-pin Molex marked "24V" on EQ board goes to power supply, 1+ 2-

Quote
and input / output 3pin molex wired with the makeup ba283, no rled installed.

Rled on bypass PCB is out of care :)
3-pin Molex:
IN goes to IN, OUT goes to OUT at make-up PCB
 
Quote
groundplane on bypass pcb to case!


Yes, right!

Quote
i measure 24VDC at pin 1 of 2pin molex vrel1
when switching the eq bypass switch either up or down.

I assume 3 position switch ON-OFF-ON used. This way, up is eq+makeup,
center is bypass, down is makeup without EQ.

Let's do next. Connect 24V to bypass board, to VREL, 1+ 2-, and see if bypass works.
Pins 1+2 at 3-pin Molex, BYP_SW, should be shorted.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 16, 2010, 05:45:31 PM
Quote
at the moment i have 24v relays + diode with solder jumper at series connection.

Quote
In case of 24V relays, the connection should be PARALLEL, 2 jumpers.
/not the central one, those which right down the relays/

okay, i followed your previous post / link...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp1.jpg

will check tomorrow and report back.
thank you! alex

EDIT: yeah, the relays were connected in series. stupid mistake. the three modes are working now...
thanks igor!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 17, 2010, 09:52:38 AM
so far mids and high bands and ba283 boards are working, but i found a strange behaviour with the hpf / low band.
when selecting a freq i.e. 60Hz it seriously boosts but only when the corresponding gain switch (2. lorlin) is in off position!? when i step this gain switch up it attenuates but only in first position. no other positions seem to work. inductors are carnhill and all switches are lorlins 1x12. reversed switch / inductor?  
thanks for any hint...

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/69_finished_2_640.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/eqpcb_1_640.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/eqpcb_2_640.jpg)

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/switch_lowband+boost_640.jpg)

EDIT: HPF doesn´t work either. rechecked all solder joints/values for C11-C15, correct! all boost frequencies on lowband are working, so i assume vtb9043 and C17, C20, C23, C26, C29 are okay.
rechecked all solder joints / res values on lowgain switch, correct!
same for R1-R12, correct! mid and high band working like a charm.
i´am stuck...

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 17, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
Quote
okay, i followed your previous post / link...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HeByp1.jpg

will check tomorrow and report back.

Errata: this was my mistake, not yours :)
I used to 12v relays and thought about supply voltages instead of relay coil's nominal voltages.
In case of whatever, to clarify:
For 24V power supply, if 12V relays used, series connection-
one jumper at the middle. If 24V relys are used, parallel connection, 2 jumpers (under the relays).

Quote
EDIT: yeah, the relays were connected in series. stupid mistake. the three modes are working now...
thanks igor!
:) To my shame. I usually check everything when post drawings/etc.
Well, human factor worked at this time.
Quote
so far mids and high bands and ba283 boards are working, but i found a strange behaviour with the hpf / low band.
when selecting a freq i.e. 60Hz it seriously boosts but only when the corresponding gain switch (2. lorlin) is in off position!? when i step this gain switch up it attenuates but only in first position. no other positions seem to work. inductors are carnhill and all switches are lorlins 1x12. reversed switch / inductor?
thanks for any hint...

In case of whatever. VER.1.1. used modified switch for LO (first from left).
There were only 2 test boards of this version at first prototype.
Ver.1.2 which is fixed, checked and current one doesn't needs modified switch,
i.e. 1pole 12 pos Lorlin switches are used everywhere.
If modified 2x6 switch used (the mod is simple, take out the second half's wiper,
which works at 7-11 positions), everything is OK.
If 2x6 switch is used, this can be a prob.
Let me think on this....
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 18, 2010, 10:05:07 AM
In case of whatever. VER.1.1. used modified switch for LO (first from left).
There were only 2 test boards of this version at first prototype.
Ver.1.2 which is fixed, checked and current one doesn't needs modified switch,
i.e. 1pole 12 pos Lorlin switches are used everywhere.
If modified 2x6 switch used (the mod is simple, take out the second half's wiper,
which works at 7-11 positions), everything is OK.
If 2x6 switch is used, this can be a prob.
Let me think on this....

progress. just swapped the low band 1 x 12 with a modified 2 x 6 on the left channel to no avail. no hpf, no lowband boost...
it even makes things stranger cause i lost the third bypass mode (makeup amp without eq). after putting back a 1 x 12 i got that bypass mode working again. desoldering lorlins is a nightmare and before i ruin my switch pcb i´ll better stop for today and wait for your thoughts...
for now i have at least mid and high bands working and the possibility to use the (makeup amp) iron without eq, which is a really nice feature.
let me know what you think.
cheers, alex

p.s. btw, its pretty quiet here. nobody besides igor and myself who has build a 69?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on July 18, 2010, 10:16:41 AM
Quote
p.s. btw, its pretty quite here. nobody besides igor and myself who has build a 69?

it's next on my list....  not yet, sorry!

do you have a desoldering gun? i purchased a hakko 808 pretty cheap on ebay a while ago (110v - have to run it on my variac) - it makes desoldering MUCH easier and less stressful/damaging. one of my favourite tools!

sorry i can't really offer more help than that at this point.

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on July 18, 2010, 01:29:58 PM
I have exact the same problem with the low end section as Ultra-Alex.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 18, 2010, 05:38:02 PM
Guys, let me see what can be a problem here. I checked my second unit,
which is still not racked, ver.1.2 pcb; low cut does not works,
everything except it works fine.
At least low boost sounds better than plugin, I love it's sound on highs
and all curves traced with scope/analyzer are very close to simulation.
Will have some time at this week to deal with it.
If there's a problem, it will be fixed within this week and solution will be posted here.
Worst case, I will send corrected pcb for free.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on July 18, 2010, 09:46:01 PM
thanks igor - you are a champ. thanks alex and holger for blazing the trail  ;)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 19, 2010, 07:48:05 AM
Hm...Actually, I prefer if everything works fine.
Anyway:
Errata for all builders. There's a mistake on pcb.
Low cuts are not working. Let me time till 26th July to find the working solution.
I will do all the best to fix it with minimum of your time/money investment, i.e.
new fixed boards will be sent for free or other fix like this.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on July 19, 2010, 07:55:59 AM
Quote
Hm...Actually, I prefer if everything works fine.

just trying to put a positive spin on things... haha.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 19, 2010, 08:11:35 AM
Hm...Actually, I prefer if everything works fine.
Anyway:
Errata for all builders. There's a mistake on pcb.
Low cuts are not working.

can you also confirm the low boost misbehaviour. my unit is boosting all lowboost frequ´s BUT only when in off position.
maybe holger can confirm that. otherwise it has to be a different error in my unit...
thanks!


Inductors: Carenhills layout done exactly by .pdf on their webside. Not tested yet.
(If someone want to get free pair of EQ pcb's, he/she can test them with
the Carenhills and post the results).


so as i beta-tested carnhill inductors, you owe my another pair of pcb´s.  ;D
just kidding...   ;)
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 19, 2010, 10:32:26 AM
Low boosts are working fine. Do you have a short between center pins of LO (first from
left) switch?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 19, 2010, 10:53:42 AM
the low BOOST frequencies (first switch left) from postion "off" to position "400Hz" are working fine here too. the adjacent (low boost) GAIN switch isn´t working as supposed! and what center pins of which switch are you talking about? please be more precise...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on July 28, 2010, 07:05:00 PM

Errata for all builders. There's a mistake on pcb.
Low cuts are not working. Let me time till 26th July to find the working solution.
I will do all the best to fix it with minimum of your time/money investment, i.e.
new fixed boards will be sent for free or other fix like this.


Any news Igor?  :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 29, 2010, 07:11:39 PM
Yes. There's a prob. Will be fixed, people who bought pcb's or kits,
will receive working solution, absolutely for free.
Sorry, it will take some time, between 2 and 5 weeks.

All working fine except low cuts. If you're OK with it...leave it :)
If you like to fix it, please mail me: transaction ID (to know shipping address
and which version of PCB was sent), and just write you like to fix low cut problem.
No additional costs, no shipping, etc.
/added: ah yes, and minimum of your time consumption :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on July 29, 2010, 10:22:47 PM
thanks igor - i've sent you a mail  :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on July 30, 2010, 01:15:48 PM
Mail sent...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on July 30, 2010, 02:25:38 PM
igor, i don´t think that i need to send you another email...  ;)
cheers, alex
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on July 31, 2010, 05:27:18 AM
mail sent  :)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on August 02, 2010, 08:17:56 PM
Hi people, thanx for your support. I read the mails, please bit of patience,
there will be working solution.
/I double-checked my EQ, the only prob is LO CUT section/.
I fixed it with dual (2x12) switch.
Working now on sourcing right switches, sorry, have some busy days,
but fixing this thing is on my first priorities. Will inform here and by mail.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: leadbreath on August 19, 2010, 08:41:09 AM
hey igor,

im just sourcing parts for the 69 psu and having a hell of a time finding a 1700uf electro cap, will using 1500 or 2200 be ok??
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on August 19, 2010, 03:52:57 PM
which cap are you talking about?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on August 19, 2010, 05:38:47 PM
The big cap on Igor's powersupply pcb?

Is the problem  with the low cut already fixed?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on August 19, 2010, 08:01:57 PM
I fixed it on my EQ. Now sourcing right switches. Please some patience.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on August 20, 2010, 03:21:24 AM
The big cap on Igor's powersupply pcb?

does igor provide different psu pcbs for the 69 lately? i thought those are the same as 2245/33609. if so, and you´re talking about C1, it´s a 4700uF...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/POWER_SUPP_33609.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ps.jpg

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on August 20, 2010, 05:37:57 AM
Quote
does igor provide different psu pcbs for the 69 lately? i thought those are the same as 2245/33609. if so, and you´re talking about C1, it´s a 4700uF...

That's right, but if you have a fast look at it, it looks like 1700 uF.

Quote
I fixed it on my EQ. Now sourcing right switches. Please some patience.

Thanx,
I was wondering if I could continue soldering in the mean time or if we do need new pcb's.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: leadbreath on August 20, 2010, 06:02:53 PM
aahhh, thanks a lot guys much appreciated.
mick
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on September 05, 2010, 04:03:26 PM
...
but fixing this thing is on my first priorities. Will inform here and by mail.

any news, igor?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on September 07, 2010, 10:28:28 PM
Yes. Sorry, it will take some time, but I do't want to cut the pcb's.
The solution will be ellegant as possible in this situation.
In my first priorities.
More-after local holidays.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on October 03, 2010, 06:05:49 AM
Hi Igor

I finally found time to start building my two kits. Are there any news regarding the low-cut issue? I can find different infos when i skim through the various posts but am confused at what point the solution now is. Should i contact you via mail for replacement switches? I guess you had problems ordering them. Or can i just order the right part at mouser myself? If yes what is the correct type or part number?

Thank you very much in advance
G
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on October 03, 2010, 11:50:45 AM
...
but fixing this thing is on my first priorities. Will inform here and by mail.

any news, igor?

Any news, Igor?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on October 05, 2010, 10:31:47 AM
...
but fixing this thing is on my first priorities. Will inform here and by mail.

any news, igor?

Any news, Igor?

any news, igor?  ;)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: jandoste on October 05, 2010, 12:54:17 PM
...
but fixing this thing is on my first priorities. Will inform here and by mail.

any news, igor?

Any news, Igor?

any news, igor?  ;)
I am waiting for two kits Igor !
Cheers,

PS : Did you get my mails about 2254C problem?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on October 13, 2010, 09:51:05 AM
Hi Igor

Just read the main thread, i wish you all the best and hope you will soon be fully recovered!

Thanks again for making this project happening, it's awesome.

g
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on October 26, 2010, 05:03:35 PM
any news?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on October 26, 2010, 06:10:33 PM
Yes, please allow 5-12 days to check everything is 100% up.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: delaymix on November 08, 2010, 07:30:02 PM
Pending on how to solve the low cut problem..., I'm thinking of using a transformer at the input signal with a 1:1 ratio, as the original. My question is if I worked well with both make-up cards, the BA283 or perhaps better hel_amp?
On the other question, could explain a little more about the make-up card hel_amp? I have no very clear as to launch this card ... What transformer can work well on the way out? In the PCB there are pads with FBG and F.B., where they connect these?
This is an exciting project!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on November 14, 2010, 05:39:47 AM
Yes, please allow 5-12 days to check everything is 100% up.

bump...

(http://www.ultraton.net/33609diy/69_rack_640.jpg)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on November 14, 2010, 08:11:39 PM
I know. Very soon.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Strat96 on November 15, 2010, 10:05:18 PM
Hi everybody.  I've been searching on the net and following this thread for a little while.  Did anyone ever find out the specs for the inductors on the originals?  Strength/size of core, number of windings, gauge wire, measured resistance, etc?  I have read something about the bass inductor having a ferrite core and the mid-band having a nickel composite core.  I've also seen postings for RM8, RM10, EI24 on here.

Someone may have already mentioned this, but just in case, one of the techs identified his Helios having a 12H in the bass and I believe it.  They pretty much made these with what they had in the beginning.  The bigger inductor would have some effect on bandwidth, but that's what sets them apart.  Almost like the old Les Paul's having different windings in the PAF's.

Cheers!

Jason
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on November 27, 2010, 04:37:02 AM
Hi Igor,
where's our PROMISED solution for the "bass Switch problem" ???  ??? ;D ???

Please give us some informations about !

I wanna complete this project !
>Thanks<

Regards
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on December 01, 2010, 04:26:24 AM
IGOR  ??? ::)
Are you there ??
It's a long time now!!!

PLEASE, Tell me how I can solve the PCB problem to finish this project !

Regards
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: lotus on December 02, 2010, 02:14:22 PM
Bump.I would like to know what to do about this project.More input and a  fix for the lows and/or redesign,I did send an email and haven't heard back from Igor.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: delaymix on December 02, 2010, 03:41:06 PM
I fear that all stakeholders are expecting the same, that Igor is proposing an efficient and happy end.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on December 04, 2010, 01:17:25 PM
Yes, there will be happy end.
The switch should have <27mm after front panel.
We will use these bases, I already have them in-stock;
The wafers are on the way here.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: lotus on December 04, 2010, 05:08:24 PM
Hi Igor or anyone else,  can you tell me if it is possible to use 12h on the bass side?Is this just a question of changing cap values and resistors? or should I save my 12h for something else and use the reccomended 10h?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: lotus on December 05, 2010, 02:41:10 PM
Nobody? ok I guess I'll have to dig out my copy of the Audio encyclopedia and do some more reading. :P
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on December 09, 2010, 02:37:22 PM
12H isn't so far from 10H.
From the guy who have original modules, I know that bass inductor is 10H.
Switch wafers still not arrived. ArrrGGGhhhH!!!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on December 29, 2010, 10:39:56 AM
Any news here, Igor?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on December 30, 2010, 07:00:06 PM
I'm keen for news too... just a friendly prod igor, old boy ;)

Stay healthy and relaxed though, don't let us stress you out with our little switch grumblings!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on January 02, 2011, 04:20:02 PM
Hi Igor et al.

I have one or two questions regarding the helios style line amp. Please forgive the noob factor, but maybe it will help some other noobs too.

Q1: it seem that the transistor BC214 is not really available (nobody has it in stock anymore, mouser and digikey list it, but as out of stock). Can you give a recommendation for an adequate replacement? http://www.auroraaudio.net/dcforum/DCForumID1/554.html recommends an BC461 as a replacement, but this one too is not available.

Q2: How do I make use of the helios style line amp?  I don't know what to do about the RIN, RZ and the CZ. I don't know how to interpret the hint in the first post "Just insert it in between first and second stage, and use more gain on second stage.". With the Helios style line amp, i do not absolutely need an input transformer, is that right?

I just had a first listen to the assembled boards, height seem to work well on both channels, PK mids seem to be ok, TR seems to have not much effect, the bass seems to have a problem on both assemblies, but i will probably find some inconsistency of my work.

Thanx a lot in advance!
G

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on January 02, 2011, 09:49:01 PM
Q1: it seem that the transistor BC214 is not really available (nobody has it in stock anymore, mouser and digikey list it, but as out of stock). Can you give a recommendation for an adequate replacement? http://www.auroraaudio.net/dcforum/DCForumID1/554.html recommends an BC461 as a replacement, but this one too is not available.

Do a search. This has been discussed at length in igor's 2254c thread and others.

I got mine from "Futurelec" - they are the "BC214L" version. The "L" has a different pinout, but i was able to rotate it to fit on Igor's 2254c boards - i imagine the same will be true here.

Q2: How do I make use of the helios style line amp?  I don't know what to do about the RIN, RZ and the CZ. I don't know how to interpret the hint in the first post "Just insert it in between first and second stage, and use more gain on second stage.". With the Helios style line amp, i do not absolutely need an input transformer, is that right?

RZ and CZ are "zobel" components - you only need to fit them if your input transformer requires a zobel.

RIN is also placed across the input - a resistive load if whatever is connected before this amp needs one.

The helios amp will work without any of these components - they are there for tweaking...

I can't see any reason why you must have a input transformer, no.

I'll let Igor or someone else explain how to use these amp boards, i'm not familiar with the project yet - waiting on Igors switch fix.

I just had a first listen to the assembled boards, height seem to work well on both channels, PK mids seem to be ok, TR seems to have not much effect, the bass seems to have a problem on both assemblies, but i will probably find some inconsistency of my work.

Have you read this thread? There is a known problem with the "bass" band... Igor has ordered replacement switches that apparently will work, but AFAIK he hasn't received them yet.

Glad to hear some of the EQ works - but you might have to de-solder some stuff in the end unfortunately...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on January 02, 2011, 10:26:36 PM
I don't know how to interpret the hint in the first post "Just insert it in between first and second stage, and use more gain on second stage.".

I believe this statement is referring to "dual stage preamps" like the JLM "BA Dual" and Jensen "Dual Servo" etc - not the "helios amp boards"

I imagine the helios amp boards would be used in a similar way to the neve boards - i.e. after the EQ boards.

See the original schem: http://danalexanderaudio.com/OutboardPic/HeliosChannelSchem.jpg (http://danalexanderaudio.com/OutboardPic/HeliosChannelSchem.jpg)

And Igor's "neve amp" implementation: http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ba283_mkup_sch.png (http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ba283_mkup_sch.png)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on January 03, 2011, 10:45:32 AM
hi haima

thank you very much for your support, much appreciated!

i know about the lowcut currently not working, but i was referring to the bass eq component which should be working. anyway, this was not really a question, more a status report. i sure will be able to make it work.

i was not reading the 2254c thread, because i do not plan to build one of those. thanx for the futurelec hint. i think, the questions and answers belong here to this thread. there might not be many people building this project in this configuration, but for the few who do, it might be valuable information.

thanx a lot, again!
g
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on January 03, 2011, 10:54:56 AM
All good - it's great to hear someone's building this! I'm waiting for igor's fix... but if it doesn't happen soon i'll start looking for my own solutions i think.

Doesn't the bass and lowcut share the same switch?

Keep us posted. This thread needs more action!  ;)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on January 03, 2011, 07:57:41 PM
as far as i know, it is only the low cut section (= half of the positions of the first lorlin) which is affected, the rest should be working fine. for me it is the least important part of this device, i decided to build this project and maybe never apply the fix, i.e. if it is to complicated as i have ample other options to apply a lo cut to a signal if i really need to.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on January 03, 2011, 08:43:12 PM
Quote
as far as i know, it is only the low cut section (= half of the positions of the first lorlin) which is affected,
the rest should be working fine. for me it is the least important part of this device
+1 (me too :)
Just came today from little vacations, will take more time for support threads tomorrow,
the fix (dual switch which takes 20mm behind front panel) is almost worked out.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on January 05, 2011, 05:06:08 AM
as far as i know, it is only the low cut section (= half of the positions of the first lorlin) which is affected, the rest should be working fine. for me it is the least important part of this device, i decided to build this project and maybe never apply the fix, i.e. if it is to complicated as i have ample other options to apply a lo cut to a signal if i really need to.

the entire low section is not working properly on my unit. and holger reported the exact same behaviour on his build.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on January 05, 2011, 08:29:07 AM
on one of my two channels, the bass is currently working somewhat, when i turn the first lorlin to the very first position, the second lorlin indeed does work as intended and boost the bass (very nice sound, mmmh), but only on this very first position. i cannot exactly say which frequency it is, might be either 60hz or 80hz, probably 60. the other channel does not have this behavior. so i guess i did something wrong, as igor has stated, on his own module, the bass section is working except for the low cut. as soon as i find out anything, i will post my findings.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on January 05, 2011, 11:17:33 AM
this is all been discussed already. see page 5. welcome in the club...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on January 21, 2011, 08:35:41 PM
Any News IGOR??

At what point is the solutions for the BassCUT ??? ??? ???

Regards
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on January 22, 2011, 03:36:16 AM
Igor posted today in his main white market thread:

Quote
Finalizing the LO switch solution, very soon. Switches are here.
Arround Feb 20th will have switch wafers in qty 100...finally!!!

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771.1000 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=29771.1000)

Igor has been waiting for these switch parts for a while... plus he has a LOT of awesome projects on the go, as well as life and work outside of this forum... so we need to be patient. I'm sure it'll be worth the wait.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on February 08, 2011, 11:39:07 AM
Hi Igor

As I just received the case from Dan ddt I am now working a lot on my unit. I hav a bug in both modules in the LO section (not in the lo-cut, just the other part) and am now trying to trace with a signal and an oscilloscope. I am not very experienced with such procedures and I just found that the most important information is not there on both pictures linked in your first post of this thread:

69_ver1_2_pcb_top_1.png
69_ver1_2_pcb_btm_1.png

The traces are missing,  just the parts are there. It would be an enormous help for me to have these upgraded, as the pcb itself is quite dark and due to the nature of two pcb's stacked even more difficult to match what is actually going on on the board with what is on the diagram. I would be extremely thankful if you could upload either 2 additional pictures or upgrades of the ones that are already there.

All the best, and I am so much looking forward to get this module in the rack!
Glazunost

 
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on February 27, 2011, 07:58:07 PM
Is there someone out there with bare pcb's who could take 5 minutes and make photos of each and upload them somewhere? I am really desperately in need of this information, see post above. it would be really helpful

best
g
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on February 27, 2011, 09:04:45 PM
Hi Christian, saw this post, now it is 4 at morning here, I will post it tomorrow
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on March 03, 2011, 06:11:37 AM
Hi Igor !!

Have you got the switches to solve the BASS PROBLEM ???
Let us Know, PLEASE !!

Regards
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on March 06, 2011, 08:44:07 AM
Hi Christian, saw this post, now it is 4 at morning here, I will post it tomorrow

Hi Igor, did you forget to upload the gerber files?

thanx in advance 
glazunost
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on March 10, 2011, 05:10:12 AM
i mean, if you still have two empty pcb's lying around, just two photos of those pcb's from both sides would very well do the trick for me.

thanx
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Jim50hertz on March 10, 2011, 05:33:50 AM
Hi Igor !!

Have you got the switches to solve the BASS PROBLEM ???
Let us Know, PLEASE !!

Regards

???
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on March 21, 2011, 08:59:41 AM
Guys, let's face it, this project sure is abandoned.

Very sad, it looked so good...
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: haima on March 21, 2011, 09:02:50 AM
I hope not... Igor said on his white market thread that once he's moved operations to his web-shop he hopes to have time to fix this issue.

So I'm still holding out hope, but we'll see.

There's always the option of fixing it ourselves - this IS diy after all :P. Obviously it's easier if Igor fixes it for us.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: delaymix on March 21, 2011, 12:05:25 PM
Guys, let's face it, this project sure is abandoned.

Very sad, it looked so good...

But are you saying ...??? I do not think even half serious. I no know the reality of the situation. I also want to finish my unit, but be patient. As I have understood, Igor is expected to solve the problem with another type of rotary switch and waiting arriving the wafers ... I think so. Sometimes things take time, much more than we would like, but this is DIY and patience and know how to wait is the first thumb rule.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on March 21, 2011, 02:10:34 PM
This is DIY and this is a forum so why should only one busy guy solve this problem. Describe exactly what the problem is so we all can think of a solution. I've also put this project on hold waiting for the solution. Yes I'm lazy too. Maybe it's time to form a team on this one too. I think we have solved bigger problems in this forum than some switch issue.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on March 21, 2011, 05:23:55 PM
... Describe exactly what the problem is so we all can think of a solution...

i described the problem as "exactly" as i can nine months ago. ;D
go ahead everybody, build it. the ba283 amp stage is worth it alone!
cheers, alex

p.s. i´m shure igor will tune in...


Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on March 22, 2011, 05:15:24 AM
i would be extremely grateful if some guys of you owning pcbs which are not yet stuffed with the parts could just do a picture of both sides and upload it somewhere.

that's what i am looking for the most for the moment


Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on April 22, 2011, 03:55:14 AM
Any news here, Igor?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on April 23, 2011, 04:30:34 PM
Quote
i described the problem as "exactly" as i can nine months ago. Grin

No, you didn't.
Nobody explained the technical problem so far. What should that switch do or not do?
Can we modify a Lorlin or another switch ourselves?

I know we have the schematic and I can see the problem too. But I mean a print of that part of PCB layout could help us find a solution.
We could do something with a relais controlled by a light sensitive circuit. An LDR can do more than only compress your audio.  :)  The light could be controlled by the custom knob on the front panel. Or we could use a "magnetism sensitive switch" and a modified knob containing a magnet. Or some micro switch. ....

What exactly is missing in our schamatic compared to this one :
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=36243.msg445091#msg445091
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on April 30, 2011, 07:17:45 PM
http://www.tme.eu/html/EN/miniature-pcb-rotary-switches/ramka_1413_EN_pelny.html
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on May 11, 2011, 07:50:44 AM
I don't think that posting specs of some switches will bring anything anywhere further. Igor now is just too successful, check his facebook. It does not surprise me at all, this man got skills. And in the future he will probably always have many better things to do than maintain this little project. It's a known pattern and happens often. We just have to live with it.

g
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: hobiesound on May 11, 2011, 11:27:53 AM
well guys the fix seems easy enough doesn't it....  for the low cut AND the low boost to function properly you NEED a dual gang 1x11 switch and a trace cut between a6 and A because that trace permanently bypasses the low cut. And then wire both decks of the switch like on the original schematic. Also you'll need to wire all switches and pots on the filter pcb offboard to facilitate for the bigger low boost/cut switch.

disclaimer: i don't own this pcb so this advice is just coming from me looking at the schematic and comparing it to the original schematic. I do however have a working pcb layout of this filter circuit.

greetings,

Thomas



Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: leadbreath on May 11, 2011, 11:41:17 AM
thanks hobiesound, i havent had time to check this out but like u im sure its not that difficulta solution...

if u read through one of igor latest updates his market he has put repairing the 69 on the top of his list.
he's a busy man it will take time, i have faith.

mick
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on May 29, 2011, 10:31:11 PM
Hi guys, and sorry it took so much time - currently, I working in Tel Aviv and living in Haifa,
it is about 100 km to each direction back and fourth every day, and absolutely had no time for anything.
Finally, I had some time, and, as first priority thing, putting here the fix.

I tried to source low profile 2x11pos switch, but is is impossible, or I missing something.
The fix is a bit barbarian, but I checked it and it works 100%.
Sorry for bad quality of pictures, I had to build/test both pcb versions of this EQ from scratch in limited time,
as first proto is working at my friend's studio in St. Petersburg (he using it without low cuts and happy).

There were 2 versions of PCB's. One version needs only the low frequency switch fix.

It goes exactly as

well guys the fix seems easy enough doesn't it....  for the low cut AND the low boost to function properly you NEED a dual gang 1x11 switch and a trace cut between a6 and A because that trace permanently bypasses the low cut. And then wire both decks of the switch like on the original schematic. Also you'll need to wire all switches and pots on the filter pcb offboard to facilitate for the bigger low boost/cut switch.

disclaimer: i don't own this pcb so this advice is just coming from me looking at the schematic and comparing it to the original schematic. I do however have a working pcb layout of this filter circuit.

greetings,

Thomas


Many thanx to Thomas for good explanation, and here are the pictures:

- Schematic of how-to wire the switch:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/SWITCH.jpg

- Da FIX:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/1.png

- Semi-hi-res pic showing all this:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060256.jpg

The switch which fits is Grayhill, 71 series, 71BD30-02-1 AJN.
PLEASE CHECK WITH DATASHEET,

www.grayhill.com/catalog/Rotary_71.pdf

because I used Grayhills pulled from old measurement equipment,
and they had no markings.

Fixing:

First, cut the PCB as shown here:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060232.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060231.jpg)

Wire the switch and connect both wipers to A! point.

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060242.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060237.jpg)

This is the fix for low cuts issue.

As well, there were some PCB's with LOW BOOST problem.

If you have a problem with LOW BOOST switch (if it starts from +15db), the fix is simple as well.

Check this:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/2.png

Cut 2 traces; for the trace on top layer, if low boost switch is not soldered, it is easy,
OR, if switch is already soldered on PCB, drill the hole 1.5mm like here:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/P1060254.jpg)

And connect wire as shown:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/2.png

That's all. Here are all pros and cons:

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/HELIOS_FIX/
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on May 29, 2011, 11:04:18 PM
Well, after posting "how-to", let's think about practical side.

If I issued the PCB's with mistake, I should help to fix it without getting into details how it happened
(the collective work and never listen to "good ideas", note to myself)).

This way, I thought out a way of fair compensation....let me know what do you think.

For those who bought the pcb's only, I already have this EQ in 500 series at the stage of drawn PCB and
have to order the proto pcb's and test it. In other words, if you bought PCB's only,
ask for 500 series PCB set for free, just pay shipping ($10).

As well, there were 12-14 kits.

If you bought kits, mail me with transaction ID, I ordering the Grayhill 71BD30-02-1 switches in few days from Digikey,
they show "no stock", but it is matter of month-two; when I receive the switches, just pay shipping ($10) and they will be sent to your address.

MAIL ME with your address etc.

PLEASE NOTE:  Write "HELIOS FIX" in mail subject.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on May 30, 2011, 07:03:03 AM
Igor, thanks for the update.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: ultra-alex on May 30, 2011, 03:31:25 PM
finally. thanks igor. curious how the low band sounds... ;D
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on May 31, 2011, 06:15:22 AM
Igor, we love you!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: reanimatorstudio on June 01, 2011, 04:28:22 AM
Thanks Igor!!

Here the ordering codes for who ordered the pcb only:

Farnell   Ordercode: 1190401

RS stocknummer 2508974858
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on June 28, 2011, 05:44:34 AM
Hi Igor
I brought the kit from Jim McEvan long time ago. Now I thought about building it but I can see that there is a problem with the lowend switch and you offers to order a new switch. Would it be possible to ship them to me?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on July 07, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
??? :'( :'(
Hi Igor
I brought the kit from Jim McEvan long time ago. Now I thought about building it but I can see that there is a problem with the lowend switch and you offers to order a new switch. Would it be possible to ship them to me?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on July 18, 2011, 08:03:45 PM
Hi IGOR,

ANy news about the switches ??
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on July 18, 2011, 08:12:03 PM
The switches are ordered, on the way here.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: scottlwilson on August 05, 2011, 11:25:16 AM
Hello Igor

I would be interested in 2 kits as well.  I love the type 69 but can't afford the Helxxs price.

Thanks!

Scott
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on August 21, 2011, 05:23:52 PM
Igooooooooooorrrr ......
Are the switches  ARRIVED ???????????

Let us know , PLEASE !
 ??? ;)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on August 31, 2011, 09:47:09 AM
i got me some grayhills and i am now very very close to a working unit. please allow me one question:

i am using the helios style line amp: what does F.B. and FBG stand for? is it something so obvious that i should find out myself?

best, g
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: volker on August 31, 2011, 10:15:49 AM
Feedback? Anyway, there is R13 with 1M in series to C5. What you are supposed to do is connect a resistor in parallel to R13, to set the gain of the amp. Smaller resistor = higher gain. Or use a trimmer to dial in exactly unity gain. If you short R13 completely to ground you have maximum gain.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: glazunost on August 31, 2011, 11:21:10 AM
thank you volker. i am learning a hell of a lot with this project
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on September 04, 2011, 05:11:05 PM
Any news on the switches?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on September 06, 2011, 03:36:40 PM
Yep. Some good news:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060636.jpg)

Will be shipped to those who bought the kits within a week.

Mind, Helios situation is way better than Hawkboard.
(If I issued this board, and there was a prob, should be the FIX. :) )

More good news:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/51x_ver.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/rack_ver.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060634.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060616.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060615.jpg)

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060613.jpg)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on September 06, 2011, 04:18:48 PM
Great news...  :) :) :) :)
I'll pm you my address.
As mentioned before I bought the kit from Jim Evan so no need to send the switch to him.  ;)

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: jandoste on September 06, 2011, 04:34:56 PM

Himmmmmmmm:)
Since long time I'M WAITING this baby! G-R-E-A-T !
Thanks man!

More good news:
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/P1060613.jpg)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: zayance on September 06, 2011, 04:46:33 PM
huh, well time to sell my kidney......
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: hobiesound on September 06, 2011, 05:31:56 PM
nice! what are those opamps?

greetings,

Thomas
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on September 07, 2011, 05:29:51 PM
Op-amps: the makeup stage is my cascode DOA, 2sk170 for input, rest PN2484/4249/BD139/40;
Input stage opamp is Quad Eight AM-4, simple and easy thing with great sound.

"Original" Helios amp relayed for 24V power supply (51X or rack, will not run in 500 lunchbox) is on the way too.

500 version can run at +/-16 with API style DOA's.

For more coolness, 51X or rack version with +/-24V is recommended.

Tony, don't sell the kidney, we still need you for Sontec pot's groupbuy!

BTW, few days ago heard the paranoidal story about Red Cross,
kinda, it is private organization and they selling the captured (prisoners as google translator says) for the spare parts.
I like these stories in Zeitergeist style, infinite stupidity, a great source of amusement.

Until aliens came from another galaxy and captured me with their anal probes (hey, it is almost 2012!!!)

The final, fixed, nice batch of 500 and rack Helios PCB's, 30 ea, is on the way here.

Docs, BOM, support thread - within few days.
When I have PCB's in hand, they will pop-up in my store... Stay tuned!

Ah yes, aliens again. Thought about those aliens and absolutely forgot.

Fronts!!!!

Ordered 100 of nice black brushed anodize blank fronts, laser cut,
same Shifram Israely factory where my 51X racks were manufactured.
Precision guys, they do cases for all North Israel electronics industry, including Elbit and Rafael.
The fronts will be here at next week.
Alu 6061 material, great for CNC machining, all I have to do is engrave and mill holes.

Bracket+mounting hardware+front price should be in range $85.
PCB price should be in range $65 either rack or 500 version for mono set.

Inductors: Carnhills should fit, however, I not checked.
Pair of locally made inductors should be in range $42.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: desol on September 07, 2011, 07:27:21 PM
NICE!!!   ;D 

Can't wait to see 69 amps!(+/- 16) Will these be unbalanced Igor, or.... how will these work??  :)  D.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on September 13, 2011, 05:38:43 PM
Switches packed, ready to ship.

New version of fixed boards - here:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45773.0
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on October 06, 2011, 04:28:17 AM
Hi Igor,

still nothing here !  :'(

All switches already shipped ?

Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on October 29, 2011, 07:10:01 AM
Hi Igor,
tried to contact you via email several times and no response.

No trace of switches here in Italy.
Now we are two months away form your last message,
could you please be so kind to give explanations?

This project has been on hold for a year.......too much.......

Regards
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on November 07, 2011, 04:41:43 AM
All switches were shipped in first half of October by regular registered airmail.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on November 07, 2011, 05:25:30 AM
Thanks Igor,
I was worried about not seeing you around...... ;)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on November 07, 2011, 06:09:04 AM
He! Was you worried about not seeing Kenny for even some SP episodes?
Right answer, NO.  Same is here.
Even in case of my death, my last will and testament is to Sergey (assistant):
"Don't drink too much beers. Pass on orders and ship everything in time".
Bughaghaghagha!!!!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: AW_music on November 18, 2011, 08:21:48 AM
ahahah ! GREAT IGOR !!
Switches arrived !!
Many Thanks !

...and now let's complete the HELIOS !!!  ;D
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on November 30, 2011, 02:46:54 AM
switches arrived safe. Thanks Igor. ;) ;) ;) ;)

Where can I buy the trafos you used for the BA-283, both of them?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on December 01, 2011, 05:25:53 PM
Hairball?
:)
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on December 01, 2011, 05:44:02 PM
Hairball?
:)
Great;-) output = 1166 but witch on as input?

Cheers
Soren
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on December 01, 2011, 06:25:24 PM
Use 1:1 or 2:1 line input ;-))
Ops, please disregard, was totally thinking about TDC and minded another project :)
For rack project: 2:1 or 1:1 line input, lo1166 etc
For 51X project (it has its own thread):
Input is Lundahl LL7101 with DOA or INA137 THAT1246
Output is LL1524 or API output clone connected 1:2 or 1:1 depending on how many color you need.
Less primary inductance, harder load = more color.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Soeren_DK on December 05, 2011, 08:12:25 AM
EA1166 as output, right?
and maybe the EA10468 as input like in the pultec http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43413.msg567809#msg567809 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=43413.msg567809#msg567809)

But they a different from those your are using in your first build? Whats the type you are using? and whats the best choice?

Cheers
Soren

Use 1:1 or 2:1 line input ;-))
Ops, please disregard, was totally thinking about TDC and minded another project :)
For rack project: 2:1 or 1:1 line input, lo1166 etc
For 51X project (it has its own thread):
Input is Lundahl LL7101 with DOA or INA137 THAT1246
Output is LL1524 or API output clone connected 1:2 or 1:1 depending on how many color you need.
Less primary inductance, harder load = more color.
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on December 06, 2011, 02:33:59 PM
I used what I had in hand for first build. EA10468 works excellent as line input (2:1), connected backwards.
Funny: Neve-o-mans using 31267 connected one winding/backwards to get magic sound... Hahahaha!!!!
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Holger on May 01, 2012, 10:52:57 AM
Can someone shed some light on R-In/R-Out on the Helios-inspired output board?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: Igor on September 08, 2012, 05:44:25 PM
Please be specific. Mean, R11, R12, R15?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: mica on January 02, 2013, 09:20:38 AM
How can i tell if I need both "mods" on my kit before assembly?
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: beatnik on January 16, 2019, 08:34:50 AM
Does anybody have the schematics and project documents for this project ?

The links appear to be dead
Title: Re: 69. Not Helios/Phaeton. Pics/schematics/building support thread.
Post by: beatnik on February 10, 2019, 09:42:41 AM
I have acquired an unfinished stereo kit from another forum member

After sorting out the eq section  I am now looking to get the makeup amp boards working

Has anybody successfully used the Helios inspired makeup amps ?

What sort of transformer ratio would you recommend for input and output transformers ?