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General Discussions => The Lab => Topic started by: Igor on September 18, 2011, 11:40:02 AM

Title: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on September 18, 2011, 11:40:02 AM
Well, I want to add it to my 51X rack, and have original transfer console's docs and Fester's (;) design.

The only option is to use 51X rack, the beast requires +/-24V
(actually, +/-28, but it runs internally at +/-20 , +23 and -27), more about this see below.

It can be done in 2 slots, no enough room for all components in 1 slot.

For now, I finished the PCB design of audio part, and freakin' arround control.

For now, it is close to "original" as possible, with addition of SC HPF, option for INPUT pot (switch),
HOLD, ATTACK, and 11 positions for RECOVERY.

I used big as possible packages for all possible audio components; output can be made transformer- or -less.

No "IRON/CLEAN" option, no room even in 2 slots.

Powering the beast.
+/-28 Volts in original brought down to +/-20 and +23, -27 internally.
+23/-27V used for output stage, and can be +23/-24 with proper scaling of 2 resistors, to be at perfectionist's side.
(it runs at -24 without any mod as well).
So, it 100% OK to run this circuit at +/-24.

Couple of questions.

Should I stick to original 6 positions release and no attack?

Should I use HOLD or input control or both?

Any options/mods?

Any thoughts welcome!
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: desol on September 18, 2011, 12:00:05 PM
Sometimes it's good not to give too many options. Old school. Hold and 6 pos release was/is perfectly fine imo...as long as it's sounding and working well otherwise. 

EDIT: A couple different attacks...of course is good idea.   :)
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: mulletchuck on September 18, 2011, 12:14:22 PM
Igor, you're a BEAST!!!!
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: jensenmann on September 18, 2011, 03:39:41 PM
I only toyed shortly with a TG1 once but instantly thought that 6 positions for release is not enough. If you could get us a few mor release times that´d be great.
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: desol on September 18, 2011, 03:47:34 PM
First one is like 'mastering' version. But what is needed for single channel version?
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: Igor on September 19, 2011, 06:26:35 AM
@jensenmann: I had same feel 3 years ago when experimented with this thingy first time)
6 steps for release never enough.
Options, steps and total recall, here we are nowadays.
The thing is people who never can say "Close the mix, it sounds good for me" like it was before digital era..
They leave mix in the box, than come to studio day after and say "Everything's fine, BUT take the vocal upfront by 0.75 db".
(Heh, don't believe? True story. Amazzzing, aye, 0.75 db!)
No more people who have enough responsibility and take decisions with what we have...
More rev to snare and slower compression. Not this kinda, faster a bit. You don't have in-between? Argh!
"Customer" always want to check his mix at the car, show to girlfriend and take advice from friend.
This way, we have an automation, total recall and protools.
From the other side, I always like to have more options to have a choice.

Well, just a thoughts :)

After some thinking.....

We can have all original odd steps and add even in-between, for recovery.
Second step for ATTACK will be "original", the rest "Original Close as Possible Nazi" can never use
or stop the attack switch at second position :)
No blasphemy from DaoiZm Katolic Holy Land Church in any case, I promise ;)

I will keep TG51X close as possible to oldy, all additional stuff can be put in "orig" position.
Most care already taken to sound path, it done as-is.
Hope, everybody will be happy with 11 steps for release (can be changed back to 6 or use odd steps),
11 steps for attack (2nd is original, don't like to use-short/install fixed resistor), with INPUT 21-pos. switch or pot
(don't like to use-short), sidechain HPF (don't like-short the switch), and with HOLD control.

First one is like 'mastering' version. But what is needed for single channel version?

TG51X IS the single channel version.
Use pots instead of stepped INPUT/OUTPUT controls, it will be "non-mastering version"))
INPUT/OUTPUT 21 step Elma's may be used and fits fine.

Huh.... Cool... More thoughts? Ideas?
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: desol on September 19, 2011, 09:08:23 AM
First one is like 'mastering' version. But what is needed for single channel version?
TG51X IS the single channel version.

This was only rhetorical question pointing out philosophy in simplicity. Seems many of the best tracking compressors still are the ones with almost the fewest controls.  ;)
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: haima on September 19, 2011, 11:05:03 AM
I haven't quite finished my TG comp - so I can't give any specific feedback...

BUT - i've always found a SC HPF to be a very useful option on almost all compressors so i'm glad you are including that one :)

I also vote for variable attack, if possible - people who don't want it can just leave it at the default setting or hardwire it.

I also agree that 100% stepped controls are VERY useful these days - everyone expects total recall.... plus, it's nice not to have TOO many options sometimes!

Thanks IGOR! keep up the good work  8)
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: Igor on September 19, 2011, 01:32:44 PM
Agree with both of you, guys. As been spoken, it is possible to build it without any additions.
Haima: do you have my skype, if need hardcore troubleshooting?

Next thing, is 2N4898, 2N4910, OA202, ELMA switches sourcing.
Frank?
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: electrochronic on September 19, 2011, 07:07:00 PM
Yes I still have the parts available for the TG if anyone needs them.
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: mylesgm on September 19, 2011, 10:09:40 PM
sounds great to me Igor.  there'll be a pair of these at least in my kit for sure...
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: fazeka on September 30, 2011, 02:24:37 PM
Hi Igor,

Any update on this?

Chris
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: andre tchmil on September 30, 2011, 03:42:47 PM
gimme
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Need your input.
Post by: Igor on December 07, 2011, 04:05:30 PM
Some interesting info, BTW, from transfer console manual:

2.1.2   Signal levels

Signal voltage levels are expressed in dBv, this being the voltage level in decibels with respect to 0.447v
(this being the r.m.s. voltage across a 200Ohm resistor when dissipating one milliwatt).
The figures quoted are not all strictly accurate as they do not, in general,
take into account the loading effect of a high impedance load across a 200Ohm or lower impedance source.

In the manufacturing test specifications which require more precision, sending levels are expressed in dBi,
this being the indicated sending level of a 200Ohm Gain Set. At an indicated level setting of 0dBi,
the gain set would deliver a zero level signal, 0dBm, i.e. 1 milliwatt, into a 200Ohm load.
Thus at the output of the Gain Set when loaded with 200Ohm, dBm, dBv and dBi are numerically equal.
If the output is completely unloaded then dBV=dBi + 6.02


2.1.4  Input Transformers
The left and right signals from the transpose button pass to input
transformers which step down in the ratio of 1.732 : 1 thereby reducing a standard
line level input signal of l.228 V (+ 4dBm in 600) to 0.709 V (+ 4dBm in 200),
this being the standard internal interconnection level.
Since the input impedance is
bridging, the transformer loss is negligible.

For vertical limiter, Zeners on schemo are: BZY88C5V1
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: detonator on December 07, 2011, 04:18:40 PM
How About à crush 'n blend option?
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on December 07, 2011, 04:20:58 PM
Ingenious!!!!!!!!!

Output amp is inverting, can be summed with direct input signal.........

Have to DIG this!
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: detonator on December 08, 2011, 01:39:57 AM
Ingenious!!!!!!!!!
Only on sundays and hollidays. Yesterday it was ukanbkibuka day, therefore it was elevated
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: zmgwg on December 08, 2011, 12:34:12 PM
Ingenious!!!!!!!!!

Output amp is inverting, can be summed with direct input signal.........

Have to DIG this!
would love it!
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on June 18, 2012, 02:34:50 PM
Some news.... Audio:

(many input/output transformers options preserved ;)
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on June 18, 2012, 02:36:24 PM
And 2 versions for front panel: "original" (single pcb at left side) and full-featured (2 pcb's arranged as sandwich, right top/bottom).
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on July 14, 2012, 08:29:27 PM
Important for rack version boards:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37400.msg622710#msg622710

Porn stuff coming.......
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on August 29, 2012, 12:18:08 PM
Is it just the output transformer, assuming you have power from a 511 rack?
Title: Re: Fester's TG1 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on September 08, 2012, 06:07:35 PM
Output trafo, ELMA switches, meter and knobs are not included.

Many tastes - many choices, so...
I prefer it clean; others may prefer "dirty" iron and slammed low-end.....

ELMA's and meters - you don't have to pay shipping back and forth to Israel and Israeli VAT.
Buy it yourself and safe some bucks.

Hairball meters for SSL mixbuzz and Sifam 1mA FSD will work, there is a shunt circuit with pot to adjust full scale.

For the people who don't need precision steps and can live with potentiometers,
the info about changing the input/output ELMA switches to pots will be posted soon.

In any case, I recommend to stare 10 minutes into documentation

http://ij-audio.com/downloads/TG1_51X_DOCUMENTATION_prelim.rar

and meditate a little bit. Detailed pictures are inside.
Just switch off the brain and get whole idea about this build.
IMO nothing special, I tried to keep it friendly as possible.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Igor on October 06, 2012, 09:11:05 AM
Cool than. Due to local holidays, some packages with parts delayed, but already here, in Israel.
I love custom's like a possibility of atomic war. Meanwhile, most of kits stuff arranged.

Important thingy.

I got this question regarding 2RU version of TG. However, useful here as well.

Quote
I read that a 2.4mA meter is required but is there any chanche of using an easy availably 1mA sifam meter?

Yep, easy. Just an adjustable shunt - take about 22r resistor connected in series with 200r multiturn trimpot;
than connect them in parallel to your meter.

Feed some voltage thru appropriate variable resistor (for 5V, the 2.4mA current will be at 2.083 Kohm);
monitor the current with milliampermeter (Fluke at 20mA range) and adjust the shunt for FSD (full scale deflection, 100%)
when the current is exactly 2.4 mA. For this purpose, 2k083 resistor (may bit vary due to total resistance of shunt and meter)
done from 1k5 resistor and 2k potentiometer, connected in-series.
Adjust 2.4 ma - adjust FSD - readjust 2.4ma - readjust FSD - done.

I will post exact pictures how to do it right with potentiometer located at PCB. Takes 5 minutes to set and forget.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: marckle on November 01, 2012, 07:14:20 PM
Hi Igor! How are you? No news good news??
My impatience is as strong as my gratitude!!! :)
Can't wait to build and taste this great project.
Cheers.   Marc
 
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 27, 2013, 02:57:55 PM
I don't know if this would be better suited in 'project specific', but figured we could use this now to aggregate build info.
I couldn't quite figure out how the resistors and caps were bundled, so i ended up just going through and repackaging them for what i need. There are a couple of errors on the boards that i have found. The 2n4998 and 2n4910 have the base and emitter backwards(assuming the '1' and '2' reference to the datasheet'. They install correctly, the other way doesn't fit, so it may have already been a non issue, but just for reference.
Also, C17 is right on the silkscreen, but wrong on the layout sheet.
-The diodes are unmarked, but the black diodes are the 4148's. The bigger orange diode is the 5.1 zener. My '2051's' were marked as '4.7' and '5.3'. I am assuming this is saying they measured between the 2. In any case, i went ahead and soldered them in as is, without making a test jig.
-I had a number of wrong/missing components. On many of the electrolytic caps the values were pretty off. I don't think i had any 330u for example, but had some 150u in the kit. but i had some laying around. Also, the voltages were lower on some of the caps(16v, instead of the 35-50v on the BOM). No 33p that i could find, and a few missing resistors. VT25 and 26, came with bc109 and bc179. Those parts are direct subs for the bc107 and bc 179. TL431CLP are right for VR1 and VR2.
I saw a couple of people asking how the switches would line up with PC for the in and out. It has been so long since i ordered the kit, but i found info saying that the switches, as well as meter, and trafo, don't come with the kit.
-the one thing that is confusing to me is the 2 separate pcbs's that both have recover and hold. The smaller one doesn't line up with the frontplate. I am assuming it is to make it with the original circuit? But i want to make sure. The information is so scattered, and the schematics are all modular, so its kind of hard to figure out what is going on.
I have populated most of the components on the 2 main boards. Waiting on a transformer, and looking into meter options. Also, where are you guys getting your 21 position switches, and meters?
Anybody else making any progress?
Ian
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 27, 2013, 06:34:57 PM
I am going with the 3.9k for r19(relay voltage), as it seems that it was determined for these general values. I am also using the LL1524, so will be using 10nF and 1.5k for my zobel to start
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 27, 2013, 07:50:29 PM
I have the 10k trimmers with top adjust that came with the kit. It looks like we probably want side adjust, as the top adjust would not be adjustable once the other board is set into the switch board
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 27, 2013, 07:56:33 PM
trying to find value of rsl rel1. It says 0r on the board, but doesn't seem right
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 28, 2013, 02:19:32 AM
Wondering if 2n4898 and 2n4910 need to be insulated? Saw that on the the other build thread.
also trying to find some meters that can work. I have some old VU's that fir perfectly, but looks like it needs to be 2.4mA FSD. What is the easiest way to make a VU work in this capacity?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on January 30, 2013, 09:25:18 PM
should this thread be in 'project specific'?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on February 03, 2013, 12:25:25 AM
Bueller?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on February 04, 2013, 12:24:12 AM
since the schematics are modular, i thought i would bridge a couple of gaps:
The 4 position "iptr" goes to the bypass switch on the faceplate. -found out that this is for the optional input transformer

you can reference to the "audio schematic" and see there is "iptr3" and iptr4" going into the input ic, ina134p. after that is C5a, and then "iptr1" and "iptr2", which connect to the input attenuator.
-i think the input attenuator is at the same place. You can see it on the audio pcb "inp" right next to C5. It isn't clearly marked, but looks like "inp1" goes to the top of the switch, which would be at position 22, 1087r, "inp3" would go to position 1 on the switch, which is the ground reference. The wiper of the switch goes to "inp2" which goes into r78 and into the audiocircuit.
-the output attenuator is taken after C99. "out1 goes to the top of the output attenuator, which is easiest seen on the original TG1 schematic, called "sharpened fixed". you will connect "out1" to position 22, which is the top of the 3.3k. "out3" will be to position 1 on the switch, which is also a 3.3k. "out2" connects to the wiper
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on February 04, 2013, 04:01:39 PM
Amendment:
On further review, it seems that the bypass pcb has only the 2 pads, which come from the top of the main pcb. There are also pads to connect to the LED, but i am thinking that may be for the other(simple board), as i am assuming the switch connects the +Ub and -UB this lighting the LED on the PCB.
I'm now confused as to what the 4 position 'ptr' is for. It is obviously to connect the relay/bypass circuit to the input, but it seems that the bypass switch accomplishes this as well.
I also put together the input attenuator that goes right after INA134p. The resistors were not supplied with the kit, but i had enough laying around to make it work. I see that Igor's front panel has both input and hold, which is confusing as i thought it was an either or. I guess using the attenuator at the top of the circuit would work interactively with the hold further downstream
I am trying to figure out the shorthand used in the schematics. I think FP is for the 2 front panel pcbs. Looking at the schematics, i can't see where the "audio schematic" connects to the front panel. I can cross reference to the original tonight, but need to get back to it later
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on February 13, 2013, 07:01:00 AM
igor how is that tg12413  build guide going ?
any schedule?

Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on March 22, 2013, 01:37:36 AM
Has anybody successfully built a TG-500?
My stereo kit is just sitting there.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on March 22, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
Has anybody successfully built a TG-500?
My stereo kit is just sitting there.

Mine too.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: mulletchuck on March 22, 2013, 02:21:30 PM
What all are you guys missing?    Schematic?   Calibration instructions?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on March 22, 2013, 09:02:13 PM
I had some structural questions first of all. Trying to put all of the boards together is pretty confusing without a bit of a diagram. I think i have it figured out but had posed a few questions earlier in the thread largely for the builds following mine.
There are a few discrepancies. The hardware is not correct. I am missing some standoffs.
Also, the zeners that are supposed to be matched came in a small ball of foil with 4.7 and 5.1. I am assuming either there are 2 matched pairs or that they vary from 4.7-5.1v, which is a wider tolerance than we are supposed to have.
It is a pretty expensive project to buy with no support at all. The docs are self described "temporary" docs, and there was a promised build guide now months ago. I mainly feel stupid for allowing myself to be duped.
I will try to finish it
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on March 22, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
The ELMA switches were not included, as stated. However, the circuit boards do not accomodate ELMA switches, so I'm not sure how to incorporate them. The small circuit boards in his "preliminary docs" showed small boards where you could mount the ELMA switches. Those were not included in my kit so I'm not sure how they'd be hooked up.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on March 23, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
i could show you how to do the switches. You need to use a resistor ladder. There is one on the input switch and one on the output switch. The Output switch resistor list is on the schematic. The input switch is in the docs collected together
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on April 01, 2013, 07:08:37 PM
Igor please give us some news :) do you have that build guide coming ?
i'm a bit worried because if the one more skilled then i am have problems i'm sure i'll never make it without more datas !
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Biasrocks on April 02, 2013, 06:41:05 PM
Trying to raise the dead huh?

 ::)

Igor please give us some news :) do you have that build guide coming ?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on April 16, 2013, 07:24:30 AM
na come on ! he obviously had some health problem looks better now ;)
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: haima on April 16, 2013, 08:24:09 AM
Hasn't Igor also been moving his house & workshop?

That tends to be a pretty time consuming & disrupting process!
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on April 16, 2013, 08:53:58 AM
imo,

dam amayzing all the problems you have with the parts :p did you manage to finish it ? do you have some pix of your project ?
i read many posts about the transformers. (1 (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/578737-emi-tg-12413-a.html)) (2 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=37400.20)) but after reading i still don't understand all. what transfromer are you guys going to use ?it it possible to put something different than the lundhal on the same PCB ? there's no room left for something bigger.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on April 17, 2013, 06:59:19 PM
ok now i just went thru the pix and docs and to be honest i think this kit is not for me :p
it looks way to complicated for my skills (close to 0). i finished an ez1073 or some modules for my synth because they were "full kits" and came with a clear building color book that were really super easy to follow and i'm doing a D67 that is going quite well but the instructions + options + calibrations on this one is like talking quatum physics.

i'll keep it for some time see if some of you guys manage to finish it if not i'll have to sell it :p

igor one question. could you please sum up the difference between V1.4 and 1.2 ?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on April 17, 2013, 07:07:01 PM
This is what Dgoszillai is talking about. I sent it to him yesterday.

Hi Robert!

My apologies. I have serious health issues, but supposed to be fixed with time.

Here is everything you need to finish the building.
Please share with another people as well.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9HeCk99hJfqYXRyTWppcjJIVm8&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9HeCk99hJfqR3NQZzQtb1JXYVk/edit?usp=sharing


Best Regards, Igor.

I.J.Research
Professional Audio
Design And Consulting

Kapelevich Igor
Hess Str. 21/3
Haifa 33398 Israel
Mobile: (972)-545479957
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on April 18, 2013, 05:27:03 PM
thx ;)
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on June 06, 2013, 12:15:06 AM
I have a mostly working unit. Still trying to figure out a few details, but would be glad to help anyone who is having trouble putting it together.
There are a few stumbling blocks with wrong parts, etc, but this can all be dealt with.
Anyone in?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on June 06, 2013, 02:06:56 AM
I have a mostly working unit. Still trying to figure out a few details, but would be glad to help anyone who is having trouble putting it together.
There are a few stumbling blocks with wrong parts, etc, but this can all be dealt with.
Anyone in?

Hi Imo,

Yes indeed. I will be attempting to tackle this project for a pair of these in the next several weeks as and when I can find the time. It will be very helpful (and fun) to have some people to colaborate on what looks to be a fairly complex project, especially for someone as inexperianced as myself. Looking forward to it. Congrats on getting yours close to completion.

Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on June 06, 2013, 02:34:41 AM
Count me in as well... have a stereo pair here, still sitting in bags unassembled.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on June 06, 2013, 03:40:36 AM
Me too, a stereo pair sitting in bags.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on June 06, 2013, 01:11:13 PM
I will be touring a bit starting next week, but will try to keep an eye on this. Its easier to answer questions when i am home and can reference the unit.
I would say to make sure that everything is done slowly.
-raise the big power transformers off the PCB with a couple of washers, but also make sure that when you mount them there is a good connection through the screws(this is the collector connection)
-when populating the front PCB(with the switches and pots) make sure to fit it into the front panel while soldering. I didn't do this and my front panel is a bit askew.
-I would replace the hold trimmer with one that allows you to adjust it while on the front panel. Makes it easier to adjust while assembled.
-get some way to test the unit out of the 500 series rack. I have a 18 pin EDAC connector that i slide the PCB in, connect the 24v,16v, and Signal generator, and i'm able to go through the unit to make sure it is working.
-there were some parts missing in my kit. Some standoffs, but also some wrong caps. Go through the parts and see what you have or don't have. I think i mentioned some of these parts in some earlier posts
Ian
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on June 06, 2013, 02:45:15 PM
Great,
What parts do we need to order before we start the builds?
Pots, transformers, resistors, caps, etc., so we'll have everything before we start.
Thanks, good luck with the tour.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on June 06, 2013, 03:10:11 PM
you need to check your parts to see what is missing. I used some 5mm standoffs to put the pcb at the right height for the 500 series, that wasn't in my kit. I also saw that a few of the electro caps werent big enough on mine.
you will need 2 of the elna switches. I think they are 22 position switches. Those are the input and output controls, and you will build resistor ladders for both of them
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on June 06, 2013, 03:57:34 PM
what version do you guys have ?
1.4 or first version ? i have the first one i guess as i order it before september.
i can't figure out what is the difference between both

i don't understand this kit could one sum up what are the options (if any) ?

i don't understand why the the doc folder i find so many "boms"
aud_bom.txt
fp_allfeat_bom.txt
fp_simple_bom.txt

it's nice when doc dont use abreviations such as fp / aud etc .. so you have a chance to know what it is.

 :P
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on June 06, 2013, 04:08:16 PM
I Looked at the boards. I don't see a Version number.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on June 06, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
then maybe you have the old one like me
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on June 06, 2013, 05:19:02 PM
there aren't different versions. The "full featured" is for the PCB with Hipass and others/ The other one is simplified. the BOM's are for each board
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on June 06, 2013, 07:25:28 PM
ok you might laugh here but ... there's different version of the pcb ?  i only saw one kit for mono or stereo on ijresearch :p
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: imo on June 06, 2013, 07:44:01 PM
there are 2 different options sent with the kit, though the second doesn't fit the frontplate. Just use the "full" pcb with the switches. See the attched GIF.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on October 24, 2013, 07:37:02 AM
Does anyone know of a source for the correct meter's for this build? If possible I would love to get retro looking ones similar to some of those on the hairball site...
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on October 24, 2013, 10:06:02 AM
hi,

sorry no clue. you mean you have started the building already ?
anyone did ? this thing is still in my closet waiting for help or ebay :p
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on October 31, 2013, 03:21:55 AM
Probably more accurate to say I am sniffing around the build than that I have started it... I am finding the documentation quite confusing to interpret as there seems to be several different versions with different options, and I am not clear on the differences. Nonetheless, I think they will be great compressors if they capture the flavor of the original design, and if I can get them built. Collecting the components not included in the kit is my first step...
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on October 31, 2013, 01:16:41 PM
Please let us know what and where you find the parts not in the kit.
I have a stereo kit still in the box that I haven't had time to get into.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on November 01, 2013, 06:29:38 PM
As I understand it, the only parts missing from the kit are:

- ELMA switches 2x per kit
- Meter 1x per kit
- transformer 1x per kit
- knobs 6x per kit

I'm based in London. So far I have picked up the Elma switches and the transformers:

4x Elma switches - from hifi collective (Elmas: 1 pole/24 way selector switch, 04-1133 (ELMA1/24)) These were quite pricey at £39 per, and might be able to be found elsewhere cheaper.
4x Lundahl 1524 transformers from group diy black market from ricothetroll @ 35€ per(plus postage). These seem to have been discontinued from production, so I needed to find some secondhand. Bought the two extra for my 1176 kits from Igor.

Knobs and meters are still unpurchased. Any good sources for knobs and meter would be much appreciated!

If I have missed any components not included, please let me know.

Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on November 11, 2013, 03:27:32 PM
anyone knows if it's still possible to find that kit somewhere ?
or if one of you wnat to sell your
igor's site is gone but i red he was searching for someone to handle the shippings etc.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on November 11, 2013, 09:07:11 PM
Dgoszillai,
Are you looking to buy a kit?
I thought you had an unbuilt stereo kit. Did you sell it?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on November 12, 2013, 04:25:38 AM
no i still have it.   :(
i'm asking this for somone here that is looking for it. i thought about selling mine to him but i'm waiting xtra months to see if for some miracle someone can build it.

Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: KDE on November 14, 2013, 04:45:50 AM
Some one really out to do a TG in 500 series and slap a voltage converter on it and properly support the unit. This is crazy that so many people are just sitting here staring at the PCBs lol
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: mulletchuck on November 15, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
How many people bought kits for this from igor? 
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on November 15, 2013, 01:26:49 PM
well i did (stereo)
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Winetree on November 15, 2013, 02:32:37 PM
Stereo kit Here.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on November 17, 2013, 06:43:31 AM
Mine is stereo, also.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: mulletchuck on January 07, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
So, what happened here?    Did this become a kit that igor made, and everyone bought and he disappeared? 
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on January 07, 2014, 02:56:04 AM
I am still committed to getting this pair of compressors built. The complexity and variety of options, and lack of clear instructions (granted this is DIY!) mean that it may take me some time to prepare myself. I also need to source a few parts yet, but it will happen, hopefully within the next 6 months or so.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: ramshackles on January 07, 2014, 04:16:38 AM
So, what happened here?    Did this become a kit that igor made, and everyone bought and he disappeared?
that is the jist of it.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dgoszillai on January 07, 2014, 05:57:40 AM
Quote
So, what happened here?
honnestly after a year.. i really don't understand how igor couldn't find a single day to collect more data / pictures / updates to help us here. yeah i know he's health was bad so find someone to do it ? at least a guy who can take pictures of he's 12413 unit HD and in detail. the folder he gave us is missing some steps (and reading the .txt is really not clear) or maybe he could send a functional unit to someone he trusts on the forum so we can study it closely and send it back. is that impossible ? but did he ever built one unit ? is this thing even working ?  ;D
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on February 23, 2014, 05:07:09 PM
anyone knows if it's still possible to find that kit somewhere ?
or if one of you wnat to sell your
igor's site is gone but i red he was searching for someone to handle the shippings etc.

Well, you don't get many second chances like this, but if you're still interested, I've just listed my complete Stereo kit along with the Lundahl output transformers and meters!
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=55345.0

Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: warpie on February 23, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
Some one really out to do a TG in 500 series and slap a voltage converter on it and properly support the unit.
You mean to make it work on standard API racks (+/-16V)? Is this even possible?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: bruno2000 on February 23, 2014, 06:47:28 PM
anyone knows if it's still possible to find that kit somewhere ?
or if one of you wnat to sell your
igor's site is gone but i red he was searching for someone to handle the shippings etc.

Well, you don't get many second chances like this, but if you're still interested, I've just listed my complete Stereo kit along with the Lundahl output transformers and meters!
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=55345.0


???
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: sylvainmoreau on March 22, 2014, 09:24:46 PM
hi guys ,

just passing by saying hello. Anyone started the thing already ?
who is the guy who recently bought the stereo kit from rob61 ?
welcome to the desprate topic  :-X
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: dogma on April 20, 2014, 09:37:29 AM
I  missed out. I'm always broke at the wrong time. Another member is getting some pcbs made minus the control and bypass sections so I'm really interested.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on January 12, 2015, 04:55:53 AM
anyone knows if it's still possible to find that kit somewhere ?
or if one of you wnat to sell your
igor's site is gone but i red he was searching for someone to handle the shippings etc.

Well, you don't get many second chances like this, but if you're still interested, I've just listed my complete Stereo kit along with the Lundahl output transformers and meters!
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=55345.0

Which meters were you able to source? Could you find 1mA ones?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on January 12, 2015, 07:20:23 AM
There was a round meter from Hairball Audio that fit the 500 series panel perfectly, but it was not a 1mA meter. In the series of images - what amounted to the only build docs for the project - there was a hand scribbled note showing how to convert a meter to response as a 1mA meter. Since I didn't build them I never tried it.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on January 12, 2015, 07:53:32 AM
There was a round meter from Hairball Audio that fit the 500 series panel perfectly, but it was not a 1mA meter. In the series of images - what amounted to the only build docs for the project - there was a hand scribbled note showing how to convert a meter to response as a 1mA meter. Since I didn't build them I never tried it.

The original meter was 2.4 mA, but hard to find. Would you know which hairball meter this round one may have been?
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rob61 on January 12, 2015, 08:19:45 AM
Ah, maybe the note was how to turn a meter into a 2.4 meter then... it had a variable pot so you could adjust it. Its been a while. As to the Hairball Audio meter, they had only one circular meter at the time to fit the 500 faceplate. Check their website.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: duantro on January 12, 2015, 02:09:00 PM
I've recently picked up a rack version pcbs and am gathering parts to build this beast soon. I just finished reading most of the threads here and thought I'd say hello and good luck to the others headed down this path.
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: Rogy on December 24, 2018, 06:38:20 AM
Hi All,

I got hold of a stereo kit of the TG51X; I saw a BM 'for sale' announcement by Winetree some time ago and that's where it all started... Thanks Winetree for having made this possible!

After having read thru this thread, I kinda expected the worst. But when I started gathering the necessary build info, I was surprised to find a wealth of first-hand info, including schematics, detailed build pics, even scope measurements...

I spent a couple of days sorting out what was included in the 'full kit'; absolutely all vital components appeared to be there. I just purchased the 4x Elma switches (in/out) and the two meters. I already had the output transfo's.

So I built the thing, fired it up and it just works! Calibration went flawless; I had to work a bit on the meters since they have a different coil resistance than the ones that Igor used but that's  basically all I had to find out myself.

I spent a short time listening to them, so far only with pre-mixed and pre-compressed program material, and by playing with the Hold and Input controls, a whole range of different sound textures is available. Very promising!

I guess what I want to say is that this is a great kit, not at all 'impossible to build'; all the info is available and just a little Ohm's Law and some logical thinking is all that's needed to bring this project to a good ending.

Those who have a stereo kit laying around and don't feel like building it, feel free to contact me as I might be interested in building another pair :-)

Happy Holidays everybody!

Best Rogy
Title: Re: Fester's TG12413 in 51X format.... TG51X? Getting closer.........
Post by: rjuly on December 24, 2018, 10:06:44 AM
Hi Rogy,
Wow, this is a blast from the past! Yes, I have one of these stereo kits, but far from selling it, I think it might be time to finally build it. I believe I have all the parts but find it a bit daunting. Perhaps I will try to post my progress once I get started, and get some pointers from this thread. Congrats on your build /- it looks very nice indeed. :-)