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General Discussions => Studio A => Topic started by: 3nity on November 20, 2011, 09:24:47 PM

Title: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 20, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
A friend of mine called me today asking to help him set his new studio.
he has 15K to spend on nice converters/software/mics, mic pres and monitors.

At this price range what are your sugestions on gear?
Im about to propose for Linx converter Aurora 16..ive read really good things about them.
Gonna match them with a protool HD core card and protool hd.

For mics on my experience ...still not sure though...maybe Neumann.
Mic preamps maybe some nice diy ..
Monitors??? maybe some nice focals..

All advice would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: Rochey on November 20, 2011, 09:54:26 PM
Tell him to spend 10k on the room acoustics and 5k on equipment!
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: peter purpose on November 20, 2011, 09:57:19 PM
And another 10 grand on wiring.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 09:59:37 AM
Actually those 15K its just for gear.
The room and acoustics are taken care by someone else!  ;)

Keep coming your comments and sugestions..
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: abechap024 on November 21, 2011, 10:03:27 AM
Room Acoustics > Mics > Pre-amps > Convertors

Then who knows what kind of comps/eqs he wants. A lot can be done TB now-a-days. Maybe a couple hardware compressors to track with. Gssl and 1176 :)

Unless he is one that prefers all analog gear.  ;D
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: Rob Flinn on November 21, 2011, 10:58:53 AM
What are you guys talking about, at least $10k should be spent on plugins  ;)
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: Rochey on November 21, 2011, 11:26:14 AM
and the other $5K on anti virus ;)
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mulletchuck on November 21, 2011, 11:37:31 AM
tell him to check out my Chuck's Racks thread.   That whole package was ~$5500 including shipping.   2 API pres, 2 Neve pres, 2 1176s, a GSSL clone and Jeff's VC528 fader stage.  All inside a single 11-slot 51x rack, and another 11-slot sittin' ready to go.   mind you, that was for kits only, nothing pre-assembled. 
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 12:28:41 PM
However i built 4 x access-312 for 550$.. 2 x 1272 for 250$....
1 x 1084 EQ for only 450$..so its kinda relates to the $$ you want to pay.
nice pix on your thread though...

Thanks
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mulletchuck on November 21, 2011, 01:15:00 PM
However i built 4 x access-312 for 550$.. 2 x 1272 for 250$....
1 x 1084 EQ for only 450$..so its kinda relates to the $$ you want to pay.
nice pix on your thread though...

Thanks

yeesh, you must've had parts left over from other builds!   Yeah, i went with complete kits for everything so I wouldn't have to think.   If your friend has any build experience he might be able to save the way you did, but if not and he's willing to put in the time, then kits are the way to go.   Each channel is roughly $500 in my box when all is said and done.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 01:18:12 PM
Good!
So we set our eyes on the Lynx converters with a HD card to go with protools 10 HD
For monitors i have our dear friend Bluzzi (1084 guy) who recommends the Focals ...

Thats for now!

Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mrclunk on November 21, 2011, 01:46:11 PM
You totally sure you guys need PT HD? Its a vast investment...

Maybe PT Native or Even PT 10.LE would be a better route.
With the new macs you can record with small buffer settings these days.
Just saying as i didn't realise the tiny latencies achievable until recently.

Personally i'd rather put the money into mics & outboard.


Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 01:54:03 PM
Well you are right..
But they plan on have a bigger studio i run on PTLE and im happy but they have a bigger goal.
however im pretty happy with my 002 rack running ptle 8.

Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mulletchuck on November 21, 2011, 05:21:33 PM
that's right.  Clients are still very ignorant, and they want all the shiny flashy LEDs over sound quality any day of the week. 
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
On the other hand.
I plan to build them some preamps, eqs and comps.

Microphones still not decided..AKGs or geffells.
Thnaks
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 21, 2011, 08:50:04 PM
Prootols would work with any card and converter now isnt it right??
Thanks.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: benlindell on November 21, 2011, 08:58:19 PM
It will, the difference is in the latency, HD systems are super low, and native (no PCI card) are at the will of the buffer.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: Brolik on November 22, 2011, 02:54:16 PM
look into the HD Native rig to save some money over the full bore HDX systems. The HD Native will set you back a few grand less than the HD Core/Accel card setup, but runs totally on the computers processing, which works better with the release of each new, beastly Mac Pro model.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: benlindell on November 22, 2011, 10:13:45 PM
look into the HD Native rig to save some money over the full bore HDX systems. The HD Native will set you back a few grand less than the HD Core/Accel card setup, but runs totally on the computers processing, which works better with the release of each new, beastly Mac Pro model.

I can vouch for HD|Native being awesome, I actually prefer it over TDM rigs now cause of how well it handles RTAS plugins, I only run into problems when using too many instances of AutoTune (sorry) and/or virtual instruments otherwise it's fantastic.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: pucho812 on November 23, 2011, 12:49:38 AM
look into the HD Native rig to save some money over the full bore HDX systems. The HD Native will set you back a few grand less than the HD Core/Accel card setup, but runs totally on the computers processing, which works better with the release of each new, beastly Mac Pro model.

I can vouch for HD|Native being awesome, I actually prefer it over TDM rigs now cause of how well it handles RTAS plugins, I only run into problems when using too many instances of AutoTune (sorry) and/or virtual instruments otherwise it's fantastic.

and rtas has been made obsolete with pro tools 10. with pro tools 11 you willl be required to have new all new digi hardwear as it will obsolete the current crop of avid/digi hardware.  there is not much that pro tools really does more of or better then other daws.  I used to be  have to stay current with latest releases of pro tools but now it's not as necessary. Your better off holding off and getting a used hd system on the cheap it may not be pro tools 10 but will still be a great system,
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 0dbfs on November 23, 2011, 08:48:06 AM
How many I/O do they need?

-jb
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 3nity on November 23, 2011, 09:25:28 AM
16 ins-outs
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: sr1200 on November 23, 2011, 10:16:33 AM
I just got the PT native with the new 16analog i/o... blows the Lynx stuff away (sounds better than the apogee stuff too...) kinda PO'd I bought the apogee converter now.  But seriously worth looking into.  You can get both as a package for around $8k
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: SamRyan on November 23, 2011, 11:13:00 AM
Agree x1000 with buy a used HD rig. The cards have plummeted in value since 9,10,11 came out. I'd either wait for it to bottom out or go to a different DAW. Since hardware is now interchangeable I'd run Reaper with some nice converters.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: 0dbfs on November 23, 2011, 11:52:52 AM
I just got the PT native with the new 16analog i/o... blows the Lynx stuff away (sounds better than the apogee stuff too...) kinda PO'd I bought the apogee converter now.  But seriously worth looking into.  You can get both as a package for around $8k
Will they need 16 pre's? If so, I would go with 16 or 20 of your access-312's... Maybe they could do that for 3k? leaves 12k for other stuff...

I just spent about 3-4 k on wiring up four 96pt patchbays (35ft x numerous I/O's)... So I would agree with budgeting a significant amount for wires. No way around that.

16 record channels sounds like "full tracking" to me... Means about 16 mic's, headphones, stands, DI's...

Nice fast PC with redundant audio drives and a UAD card (quad). Protools & Reaper.

Is this a private studio or maybe with some commercial aspirations?

Just some thoughts!

Cheers,
jb
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: sr1200 on November 23, 2011, 12:15:24 PM
+6 on the UAD2. Rocks anus!!!!!
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: MikoKensington on November 23, 2011, 02:33:19 PM
and rtas has been made obsolete with pro tools 10. with pro tools 11 you willl be required to have new all new digi hardwear as it will obsolete the current crop of avid/digi hardware.  there is not much that pro tools really does more of or better then other daws.  I used to be  have to stay current with latest releases of pro tools but now it's not as necessary. Your better off holding off and getting a used hd system on the cheap it may not be pro tools 10 but will still be a great system,

I have an HD3 PCI system in an i7 Hackintosh.  I'm running HD9 and I think I'm going to stay here for a while.  HD10 doesn't utilize the DSP on the HD/Accel cards and runs everything AAX Native.  So I'm not sure how necessary the jump is. I'm hoping we'll see some price drops on TDM plugins while everything starts transitioning to AAX.  I think if I view this DAW as a single purpose machine, like a tape recorder, I should get some mileage out of it.  I have another computer to "live" on.  ;)

BTW.  The Hackintosh, HD3, and Aurora 16 set me back less than $5K. 
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mrclunk on November 23, 2011, 02:45:07 PM
Quote
HD10 doesn't utilize the DSP on the HD/Accel cards and runs everything AAX Native.
Really!!?
I didn't realise that. So no TDM at all if i update to PT10?

(edit:  TDM plugs do still work in PT HD 10 if you have current HD pci cards but TDM plugs will not work with the new HDX cards.)

Converter wise check out the SSL offerings too. 
The MadiXtreme PCIe card / Alpha Link Madi AX bundle is about £1800. 24 io + Adat or AES.

We use them here and think they're grrreat.

Use the the madixtreme / Alpha link combo for logic and the PT HD2 accel / Delta Link / Alpha link  with PT HD.
(this is all in the same mac pro, no conflicts)
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: sr1200 on November 23, 2011, 04:23:19 PM
Protools 11 will require hardware later than the blue faces (so the new grey ones will be fine for 11 and hopefully for a while after that) and will NOT support TDM.

Protools 10 is the LAST PT software that supports TDM.  The new HDX cards I do not believe support TDM at all.

As far as going the PT route goes... the HDX is a waste IMO, Id rather get 2 UAD quads and a native card for the money.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: desol on November 30, 2011, 10:16:26 PM
Converters and mics(good mics)....

then monitors...

then preamps....

...throw a sta level and an la2a in there....

Your pretty much good to go.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: PerryLAJ on December 01, 2011, 01:53:34 AM
Unless there is some reason they absolutely MUST use protools, I suggest saving the money and using Reaper.  As good in most ways, better in some, not much it can't do that PT can.  Faster, more stable based on what I hear from trusted converts.

Personally, I am working with a similar budget.  Still in progress, but well on my way and this is the plan, about half way there:

 - A good home built PC - i7 8 cores, 16G RAM...etc, 2 24" IPS Displays (not included in original budget)

$1000 - KRK VXT 8's, great underrated nearfields. 
$2700 - RME Fireface UFX, Black Lion Modded (2 ms latency, better than the modded SSL according to Black Lion)
$1500 - Adding RME ADI-8 QS for 8 more AD/DA channels soon.         
$3000 - SCA Preamps (4 Pairs) to start, adding 8 more preamps haven't decided what, but possibly 8 more SCA, or other DIY, perhaps design my own if I have time (as I get busier, time is becoming a problem).  8 x T15 modules (comparable to the DAV BG series preamps) + chassis and power supply for $1100 is an amazingly cheap way to get 8 channels of quality pre.
$1000 - Building a pair of 1176's for tracking
$2000ish - API 2500 or A-Designs Nail for 2 Bus
$1500 - Patch Bays/cabling/snakes (Redco.com)
$500-1000 - headphone amp/distribution

Should get you 16 good channels in the box.

Good but fair priced mics:
Check the Oktavamod stuff, Modded Apex, staples like the AKG 414s, Re20, SM57, SM7B, Beta52 for Kick, and then get one or two really solid condensers when you can afford it.  Recordinghacks.com is the king of internet mic info, read a lot there.


For Plugins:
- Stillwell, Izotope Bundle, few select Waves plugs, Melodyne, Addict. Drums, SSD Trigger, Pod Farm has most of my plugins covered for now.

Yea, someday I will get a massive control surface, some good channel strips and stuff, but I am sticking inside the box, with Reaper.  Just don't see the need for consoles in my workflow (although, if the price is right, they can be great for preamps/eqs/etc, I just don't see the need for them for mixing/summing, whateva).

Just some more ideas to consider:

another noob.
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: mulletchuck on December 01, 2011, 02:20:49 AM
Perry, you should look at 51X or 500-series.    if you go with kits, you'll save a ton of money.   why pay 2000 for an API 2500 when you could get Ruckus' SB4001(500 series) for like $1200 or build his SB4000(1RU) for like $600?   Same for the mic pre's.    Tons of API/Neve clones in the white market for under $500, with Jeff's VP26s sitting right around $220.   and they all sound AWWWWWWEEEEESSSOOOOOMMMMEEEEEE
Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: dmp on December 01, 2011, 05:17:02 PM
Quote
I suggest saving the money and using Reaper
In my experience, Reaper is buggy once you get past the basic features. Simple use it is really great. But start using external gear, bouncing tracks, it has problems.
I wouldn't suggest anyone jump into a big project with it.
I would suggest looking at alternatives to ProTools though.  I use Cakewalk Sonar and am happy with it.

Title: Re: $15K for studio gear.
Post by: grantlack on December 01, 2011, 07:25:25 PM
Quote
I suggest saving the money and using Reaper
In my experience, Reaper is buggy once you get past the basic features. Simple use it is really great. But start using external gear, bouncing tracks, it has problems.
I wouldn't suggest anyone jump into a big project with it.
I would suggest looking at alternatives to ProTools though.  I use Cakewalk Sonar and am happy with it.

funny, i actually left sonar for reaper because of crashes!  so it goes, it seems like each platform has its own gremlins...
i see features in the new cubase that i like a lot, but i'm not ready to plunk down that kind of cash on another 'big brand' daw just yet.

back to op, the hd rig is going to be a substantial bite out of the budget.  unless pro tools makes workflow that much easier for him in the long run, i would suggest putting that money elsewhere.  as always, non-avid hardware can match avid spec for far cheaper.