GroupDIY

General Discussions => The Lab => Topic started by: jsteiger on June 11, 2012, 06:26:40 PM

Title: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 11, 2012, 06:26:40 PM
Since these kits have been released, it’s now time for the support thread.  ;)

These cool kits are multi-purpose. Depending upon the bundle purchased, they will power up to (2) 51x style 511 rack kits or (2) VPR style 511 rack kits. That is a total of 22 modules.  8)

If you are in North America, the bundles can be found here (http://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=176_178)

If you are elsewhere in the world, please send an email request to kitorder[at]51xAudio[dot]com and the appropriate sales person will be in touch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 21st, 2015 Update:
All support docs for this project can be found on the recently added Support Docs (http://capi-gear.com/catalog/support_docs.php) page at www.capi-gear.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here is some pron of a finished unit.

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-51x-1C-front-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-51x-2C-front-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-angle-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-guts-1-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-guts-2-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-guts-3-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-heatsink-600x450.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/GroupDIY/Floor-Box-PSU/built/FB-rear-600x450.jpg)

Cheers from the 51x Staff  :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 11, 2012, 06:27:32 PM
**PS, build pics for the new style IEC are at the bottom of this post**

Here are the build pics from the Rev_1 Assembly Aid. Click to enlarge!

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-1.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-1.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-2.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-2.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-3.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-3.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-4.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-4.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-5.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-5.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-6.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-6.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-7.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-7.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-8.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-8.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-9.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-9.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-10.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-10.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-11.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-11.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-12.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-12.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-13.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-13.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-14.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-14.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-15.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-15.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-16.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-16.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-17.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-17.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-18.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-18.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-19.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-19.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-20.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-20.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-21.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-21.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-22.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-22.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-23.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-23.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-24.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-24.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-25.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-25.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-26.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-26.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-27.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-27.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-29.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-29.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-30.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-30.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-31.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-31.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-32.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-32.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-33.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-33.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-34.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-34.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-35.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-35.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-36.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-36.jpg)


**Following are build pics from the SNET IEC Addendum**

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_1.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_1.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_2.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_2.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_3.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_3.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_4.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_4.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_5.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_5.jpg)  (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_6.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_6.jpg)

(http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_7.gif) (http://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/FB-build/SNET-IEC/SNET-IEC_7.jpg)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: SubhumanRecords on June 11, 2012, 09:02:01 PM
Very nice,I bet I could swap for one of these instead the other one I'm paying for,is there? Looks awesome..Congrates
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: chunger on June 14, 2012, 04:01:41 AM
Clarification question as the answer seems a bit ambiguous on your webstore description.

Does a single floor box PSU power two 51x racks (22 slots) at full 51x spec?  130ma on 22 slots on all 4 rails (+16v, -16v, +24v, -24v) simultaneously. . . or does it power 22 slots at +-24v OR +-16v, but not simultaneously.  I'm fairly certain in actual use in my studio, full load like that would never happen, but I just wanted to know the limits.

I understand that the VPR option (+-16v only) without the 24v rails can go 2 full racks with a different toroid included in the kit.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 14, 2012, 08:43:44 AM
'Chung, the info is there you just need to sift thru maybe too much boring text from me... :o

From the store:
Once completed, this Floor Box PSU Bundle can supply DC to eleven 500 series modules running on +/-16V at full VPR spec (130mA per module, per rail) and eleven 51x series modules running on +/-24V at full 51x spec (130mA per module, per rail).

This is essentially the same PSU that you have built using Volker's PCB only reformatted.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 24, 2012, 09:58:46 PM
I found an error on the skiz and BOM so I just uploaded new pdf's for both. The nine .1uF film caps were listed as 50V when they are in fact 100V.

Our components kits do indeed come with the proper 100V version so no worries for folks who have built or are building them.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: john12ax7 on June 25, 2012, 12:22:10 AM
Any plans to ever turn this into a rack version?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 25, 2012, 09:07:47 AM
Any plans to ever turn this into a rack version?
We had the rack version out a while ago. They were super nice but a little expensive. We did sell thru a hundred or so but it took a while. I heard many people comment about the price and how they didn't want to loose precious rack space so I developed this lower cost Floor Box solution. I have no plans on doing a rack mount case.

Cemal does still have a dual PSU rack mount case in stock I believe. You can send an email to the kitorder address and ask him.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: john12ax7 on June 25, 2012, 10:46:02 AM
Ah I see, thanks for the info.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: rob61 on June 29, 2012, 10:46:12 AM
1. When setting voltage rails high by .7v, do I raise both + and -. In other words, do I set +16 to +16.7 and -16 to -15.3 ?   Or do I go +16.7 and -16.7 ?

2. Is there a proximity problem of having the PSU sit on top of the 11 space rack? The cord length won't let the PSU sit on the floor (my rack it about 6 feet up), so if I set the PS on top of the 11 space rack, would it add noise in the 500 modules? (mic pre's, EQs, compressors, etc).
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 29, 2012, 12:30:48 PM
Or do I go +16.7 and -16.7 ?
Yes, this is correct.

Quote
2. Is there a proximity problem of having the PSU sit on top of the 11 space rack? The cord length won't let the PSU sit on the floor (my rack it about 6 feet up), so if I set the PS on top of the 11 space rack, would it add noise in the 500 modules? (mic pre's, EQs, compressors, etc).
I don't know for sure as I have never tested this. You will have to let us know if the modules pick up some interference or hum. The kit(s) come with a 5' piece of the 7 core cable. I have had guys increase this to suit their specific needs.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: rob61 on June 29, 2012, 03:41:50 PM
Thanks. Got the voltages set so its time to load up some modules and test it out.
(http://www.fasttrax.us/gallery/newrack.jpg)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: whomper on July 03, 2012, 01:59:55 PM
Finished my build! What a great build that was. Took me a mere two hours from start to finish.
Material quality is superb and the documentation made it all that easier.

Well done for a great product and docs!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 03, 2012, 02:13:44 PM
Thanks for the kind words whomper.  ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: RuudNL on July 06, 2012, 04:56:27 AM
What is the idea of having 1000uF after the regulator?
In general a much lower value is used in this place, because the ripple rejection of the regulator is very good and the noise is low.
A large capacitor after the regulator will cause a high current when switching the power supply on.
In application notes a (small) capacitor at the output is only recommended to avoid oscillation of the regulator.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sahib on July 06, 2012, 10:07:39 AM
The idea is to have additional filtering. Yes the data sheets generally state a much smaller value but it is not unusual to stick a 1000uF on the output. As long as the regulator is protected by a shunt diode to provide a discharge path it is fine.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 06, 2012, 11:53:16 AM
It is not only filtering, it is good for a fast high current demand.
Not all modules have adequate PSU capacitance for fast transients.
On a practical side, the 100 / 1 / 10 values are very common ...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: qmp audio on August 16, 2012, 12:11:44 PM
Finished my psu and racks a few weeks ago,  but just finally got around to re-doing all the connectors on my patchbay to accommodate 22 XLR I/O.   Thought I'd post some pics.   Excellent stuff from C.A.P.I. as always.

(http://xohol.com/diy/51x_002.jpg)(http://xohol.com/diy/51x_003.jpg)(http://xohol.com/diy/51x_004.jpg)(http://xohol.com/diy/51x_005.jpg)(http://xohol.com/diy/51x_001.jpg)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on August 21, 2012, 02:57:28 AM
'Chung, the info is there you just need to sift thru maybe too much boring text from me... :o

From the store:
Once completed, this Floor Box PSU Bundle can supply DC to eleven 500 series modules running on +/-16V at full VPR spec (130mA per module, per rail) and eleven 51x series modules running on +/-24V at full 51x spec (130mA per module, per rail).

This is essentially the same PSU that you have built using Volker's PCB only reformatted.

So it will only run 11 modules of one type and also 11 modules of the other type?  But it will NOT run 22 modules that use both sets of rails, correct?   What needs to be changed for it to power 22 modules using both sets of rails simultaneously?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 21, 2012, 09:33:57 AM
...What needs to be changed for it to power 22 modules using both sets of rails simultaneously?
In short, everything would need to change. This PSU has the same specs as Volker's original design.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 21, 2012, 01:46:26 PM
if you want to be safe:
just make your own case and build two PSUs in it. ;)
done. many people did it this way  8)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on August 21, 2012, 02:58:34 PM
lol I know that.   I built two of the older style cases already.   I'm just saying that it seems like the box could've supported a whole slew of awesome modules if it were designed to be able to power 22 modules that use both sets of rails.    It's very confusing to the average person when you read "it can power 11 16V modules and 11 24V modules simultaneously" but see that it only has 1 cable port for providing that power.  Kinda like false advertising, cuz you have to do some serious case and wire modifications to achieve that with the old PSU rack case. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 21, 2012, 03:19:40 PM
nah.

look, there is a whole big thread about the PSU design, and power consumption, etc.
fine, it is a few years old, newer members won't have read it.

it is not false advertising!

looks like all the basics are gone:

questions like "how many modules can be powered with this PSU" are just funny.
the original PSU is designed to power 12 modules, at each rails maximum.
no module like this is available.

know your modules and power consumption, we don't know what you will put in your rack!
enough scenarios for one PSU powering up 3 cases ...

how would you advertise this?

the basic rule:
if you want to be safe, ONE PSU for EACH Rack.
if you know your modules and requirements, anything else is fine.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: lukev on August 22, 2012, 12:57:13 PM
I have a question for you guys.  I finished my PSU last night.  Killer design Jeff.  Everything seems to be working perfectly, except the phantom power rail.  I am only seeing 22.5 volts on that connector.  I was incredibly careful to check for shorts and bad solder joints as well as double checking all the values of the resistors before putting them in.  I would really love to solve the problem without taking half of this thing appart so any ideas of what could be causing the voltage to be that low?  The only thing I can think of is if I got the regulators switched around somewhere.  I don't have the PSU in front of me right now so I'll have to double check that later. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 22, 2012, 01:22:56 PM
You measured with a MicPre / Microphone connected?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: lukev on August 22, 2012, 02:27:42 PM
No.  I was just measuring the PSU unconnected to the actual VPR rack.  Reading through the directions it seemed like that was the way to do it.  Should I be checking it with a mic pre hooked up?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jensenmann on August 22, 2012, 04:18:31 PM
I finished a DIY-PSU for my second 51x rack yesterday and discovered this thread today  :P
Guess I need one more rack to justify building this PSU ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: lukev on August 23, 2012, 12:55:42 PM
Alright problem solved.  I ended up having the power transformer hooked up incorrectly.  For the record for anyone building the dual VPR version of the PSU, the wiring colors match the assembly guide photos exactly except you put the black wires where the white wires are in the photos. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: qmp audio on August 23, 2012, 03:22:41 PM
So it will only run 11 modules of one type and also 11 modules of the other type?  But it will NOT run 22 modules that use both sets of rails, correct?   What needs to be changed for it to power 22 modules using both sets of rails simultaneously?

Im just curious,  what modules are you using that uses all the power rails?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Seppotron on September 13, 2012, 03:08:07 PM
First post here I think, Peace & Love everybody!

Just started building 51x floor PSU following classic api assembly aid.
I'm in Europe, so I got parts from Volker (thanks!).
I was just connecting  toroid transformer and noticed this in Jeffs instructions:
"The following references to the toroidal transformer connections are all made in
consideration of the US toroids. If you have the European version from Volker or Cemal, please refer to
the correct datasheet for the proper wiring of the primary and secondary leads."
   Is this datasheet somewhere to be found?
Or has this been discussed in forum? I'm sure this info is somewhere, but as everybody know, finding stuff here can be bit difficult... ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Seppotron on September 14, 2012, 06:07:49 AM
I got mail from Volker about the EU toroid datasheet:

well, there is no EU datasheet - but you don't need one anyway ;-)
only the lead colors are different:

- Primaries: 115V + 115V             [Yel-Wht/Yel-Wht]
- Secondary 1: 2x 24V / 2x2,20A [Red-Grn/Wht-Blu]
- Secondary 2: 2x 16V / 2x2,20A [Ora-Gry/Brn-Vio]
- Secondary 3: 1x 48V /     0,25A [Blk/Blk]
- Cu-Foil Screened                       [Grn Yel]

You can find this same info on the transformer itself but abbreviations are in german, so they can be bit difficult to understand if you don't know the name of colors in german... ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 14, 2012, 06:14:21 AM
the description is copy and paste from your invoice ;)

however, the EU version:
- doesn't have the Primary one-shot thermal fuse
- doesn't need the steel mounting dish & foam pads
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Seppotron on September 14, 2012, 07:46:04 AM
the description is copy and paste from your invoice ;)

however, the EU version:
- doesn't have the Primary one-shot thermal fuse
- doesn't need the steel mounting dish & foam pads

heh, I was sure this info is somewhere! ;)
I had to check invoice again, you're right but there is nothing about the wire colors!

I was wondering about the mounting dishs and foam pad did the mounting without them. I was also missing the big mounting bolt for transformer, but find replacement from garage... ;)

I almost finnished here, soon we'll see what happens! :O
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Seppotron on September 14, 2012, 08:22:25 AM
...and it works!
Was great and fun build, thanks Jeff and Volker! (and everybody else involved)
This box looks almost too professional! All my previous DIY are in in nonlabeled steel chassis...
Next I have to build 2 x VP28, They are waiting in box on my table :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: CoryBZim on October 03, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
So I finished my build and tested some units.  Sounded great.  Fired the PSU up again, only to find out I've lost -16, +16 & +48.  Opened up the unit and come to find out the fuses are on those lines. Any ideas, folks?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 03, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
My first guess would be that a 15-pin 500 series module was plugged into an 18-pin card edge connector and not seated properly. This has happened before and if it does, +16V gets shorted directly to ground while -16V and +48V are shorted together blowing all 3 fuses. I would remove all modules from the rack, replace the 3 fuses and fire up the PSU. It should come back up fine. Next, seat your modules holding them up so you feel the PCB card hitting the inside TOP of the card edge connector before seating them fully.

With the power off, you can use some cut off pieces of plastic wire ties to make some "keys" to help fill in the spot so this does not happen again.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: CoryBZim on October 03, 2012, 06:46:27 PM
HA! You even provided extra fuses as if you knew I would do that. Worked perfectly. Thanks man, I owe you a beer next time I'm up in Chi!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 08, 2012, 05:02:11 PM
The order of the wires on the star ground stud is not important in my opinion. As long as they are all there and making good solid contact it should be fine. The order can be changed if you want but I don't see the need myself.

The #6 screw for the star ground is not "painted" but black zinc coated which in the supplied kit, is conductive. This can easily be verified with a DMM. I have done it. Besides, the nuts and ring connectors are all making contact with each other and then to the heatsink side which has no paint in that area. The screw is just a mechanism to hold them all in place and give a means of tightening them together.

On the build I have here, I get no resistance when measuring DCR between the cross-corner screws from back panel to front panel, one heatsink side to the other. This tells me I have a good solid connection between front, back and both heatsink sides.

One could always add a discrete wire from the top panel to the star ground and bottom panel to the star ground. With my build here, I don't see a need for this but since this is DIY, folks can mod, change and get creative if they have the desire.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: cbarrett92 on October 08, 2012, 10:39:59 PM
I hope I did not come off trying to knock your kits.... I in fact am waiting for the VP28 to come back in stock so I can order 2 :) I just simply wanted to see if the items I noticed were just isolated to me or if it was something that all builders might have encountered and not noticed. I have struck out stuff in my original post to avoid future confusion. My apologies if I offended you in any way!

I actually did not know they made screws like that. Pretty cool. I just assumed it was painted and did not bother to check it with the DMM. (I guess that is what I get for assuming...)

Do you have any suggestions as to why the case wouldn't get the same continuity as yours? I have ran all the screws on the chassis 2/3 times in order to try and scrape some paint/powder coat in order to get conductivity. I still only get conductivity from ground on the panel with the star ground. Am I missing something in the instructions or is it time to get some sand paper?

I understand the "to each his own," but I would rather have the IEC ground first because it would be the last to come off if for some act of God the nut came off. That way the case would be grounded until all eyelets were pulled off. I would rather error on the side of safety. (To anyone reading this, it is still perfectly sound to do it the way Jeff describes in the instructions.)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 09, 2012, 12:29:07 AM
No worries and no offense taken.

I am not exactly sure what the dif would be. I did nothing special. I suppose you could take one step at a time like scrap/sand the rear of the back plate to make sure it is making good contact with the heatsink side and so on around the perimeter. It should only take a small area. Check with your probes on the larger screws since they are conductive.

I will add that to my knowledge, the place I buy these customized heatsink parts from does nothing special to insure continuity between their top or bottom panels and the rest of the case. They also have CE and UL approval for all of their PSU's.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 09, 2012, 12:54:37 AM
I understand the "to each his own," but I would rather have the IEC ground first because it would be the last to come off if for some act of God the nut came off. That way the case would be grounded until all eyelets were pulled off. I would rather error on the side of safety. (To anyone reading this, it is still perfectly sound to do it the way Jeff describes in the instructions.)
Hello,

getting this connection save is easy,there are lots of ways to do.
E.g.one can use a tooth washer before the nut.Or use "self-securing nuts" ( pardon me,I don't know the word for this,in german they are called "Sicherungsschrauben").Or use two nuts and tighten them against eaxh other.Or use a drop of "loctite".All of these methods are more or less bullet-proof.

Hope to have helped,

Udo. ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: cbarrett92 on October 09, 2012, 01:40:17 AM
@jsteiger I guess maybe that was what I was after. I just saw how the parts were painted and thought that they would not be very conductive between each other unless I did something to modify them. Maybe you can have them mask the ends off on the heat sinks and then a little on the backs of the front and rear faceplates? That way one would not have to go about the case with trial and error while sanding. (But I also can understand the added expense the masking might make to the metal parts v. having the user do it themselves...)

@kante1603 Jeff provides the locking nut you describes in his kits already. There are actually 2 of them on the star ground screw.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Satblip on October 14, 2012, 01:20:07 PM
Hi everyone,

Firstly, thank for all your work !

I've got a problem with my PSU, I did all the build and double check all my solders and physically it seems fine but I don't have the +16v led ON (and mesure 0,034vdc on the JP1) otherwise, I mesure 16,678vac and 17,340vac on both AC16v side. any idea ?
 
Thanks you ! 

EDIT : The transformer do a little noise at start. If it can help :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 14, 2012, 02:04:34 PM
What are the DC measurements on both sides of the +16V fuse?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Satblip on October 14, 2012, 04:08:33 PM
What are the DC measurements on both sides of the +16V fuse?
±0,41vdc on both sides
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 14, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
If you have you verified the proper AC voltages at the toroid's secondary header, then you will have to follow the schematic and trace your signal thru that part of the circuit to see where the proper voltages stop.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Satblip on October 14, 2012, 04:34:35 PM
If you have you verified the proper AC voltages at the toroid's secondary header, then you will have to follow the schematic and trace your signal thru that part of the circuit to see where the proper voltages stop.
Ok, I'll do that :)

I'm sure it's the regulator, I always have problems with regulators :-p They don't like me !

I'll keep you in touch, thanks for your answer !
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Satblip on October 15, 2012, 06:36:53 PM
Ok... I've decided to work on my PSU this night and try to find where the problem was.

I've powered up and all the leds went up... Just rechecked everything and I don't understand. I'm sure of my wiring and soldering. Have you got an idea of one component that could be the issue ? I've "moved" all components and don't loose the +16v...

Or I fix PSUs during my sleep and I didn't realize :-D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 20, 2012, 10:36:11 AM
Hello,

have finished my floorbox today.
Did it for the "smaller jobs"( some of you might know that I´ve built a dual version before).
A breeze to build,very relaxing,high quality as always.

You "51x-Alliance-Trio"-Guys rock!

One issue:I have a left-over green LED-must I put it in the white market ;D?

O.K.,let´s get serious.
Thought I should share this:Some of us german or european builders seem to have slight difficulties with the transformer wires and their colours,which one goes where etc..
I made a little pic using the transformer description on the classic api site as a template (mea culpa Jeff!) and modified it to german colour coding.You´ll find the pdf at the end of this post.
I´m not sure if this is the same trafo Cemal sells,I got mine from Volker.Maybe someone can chime in here?

Here are some pics in detail I took from my build:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img411/1764/mainswiringgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/mainswiringgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img252/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

Thanks for watching,hope to have helped,

Udo ;)




Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 16, 2012, 07:45:16 PM
Hey guys, I just finished my psu assembly, and I am having a couple issues. I powered it up and noticed that the 48v and -16v leds didn't turn on. I checked for voltages at the molex connector and there was nothing on either. I also checked the fuses so, I believe the LEDs are fine and inserted correctly, but one of my concerns is the voltage regulators. I didn't follow the build docs like I should have, and I soldered the VRs in and cut the leads before bolting them to the sides. My solution to this was to drill holes just below the already existing ones. The holes didn't line up perfectly, of course, so I had to use a little force. Is there a way to test them to see if I may have damaged them? I plan on taking it back apart tomorrow to check for cold solder joints.

Thanks
Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 17, 2012, 01:58:40 AM
Hi Chad,

don't know if I get you right but you drilled new holes in the regulators?
If so swap them out,they're not expensive.
You also can measure the regs inputs and outputs of course before proceeding,just follow the schemo,it is easy.Black probe to 0v of course,dmm to dc.
If you have dc on their inputs but not on the outputs just swap them out.
Don't forget the dc reading on the input will be higher than on output,e.g. for 16vdc it will roughly be 21vdc. etc.
When the regs are out of circuit and you want to go save measure the surrounding parts too,for the -16vdc rail it is the diodes cr8 & cr7,as well as the resistors r12 & r13.

Hope to have helped,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 17, 2012, 07:53:57 AM
Hi Chad,

don't know if I get you right but you drilled new holes in the regulators?
If so swap them out,they're not expensive.
You also can measure the regs inputs and outputs of course before proceeding,just follow the schemo,it is easy.Black probe to 0v of course,dmm to dc.
If you have dc on their inputs but not on the outputs just swap them out.
Don't forget the dc reading on the input will be higher than on output,e.g. for 16vdc it will roughly be 21vdc. etc.
When the regs are out of circuit and you want to go save measure the surrounding parts too,for the -16vdc rail it is the diodes cr8 & cr7,as well as the resistors r12 & r13.

Hope to have helped,

Udo.
Thanks Udo! I actually drilled new holes in the heat sink/side panels. I'll report back soon with some results, hopefully good of course!

Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 17, 2012, 08:08:11 AM
Ohhhhh.....got it now....(language barrier?)....hahaha ;D
Anyway,measuring won't hurt....

Good luck to you Chad,

best regards,

Udo ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 17, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
So I'm a bit confused here. I had the plastic washer on the outside of the regulators instead of the inside (between the VR and side panel). I unscrewed the two that weren't working, and Moved them away from the sides. it fixed the 16v rail, but the 48v rail is still dead. There is voltage going to the VR, but nothing coming out. I don't know which leg is the output, so I tested both, which had the same results.  I unscrewed all of them and placed the plastic washer in between the VRs and the heatsink. Now, only two LEDs come on....Frustrating! I think that I will just replace all of them and start over, unless someone can chime in with something.

Thanks

Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 17, 2012, 07:51:06 PM
Did you use the sil-pads between the reg's and the heatsink sides? This is important not only for heat transfer but to insulate the metal body of the reg from the heatsink. If you don't use the sil-pads, the positive reg's will be shorted directly to ground.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 17, 2012, 08:39:32 PM
I used them, but I don't think that I had all of them inserted correctly. Somehow they wer shorting out. The plastic washer goes between the heatsink and vr as well right?

Edit: after looking at the photos from the first page, I realized that I had the plastic washers inserted correctly after all. So now, I believe that the screws are is shorting them out! Oops.  :-[
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 17, 2012, 09:07:31 PM
If the washers are inserted correctly, it will take some doing to get the screws crooked enough to short out the regs to the heatsinks. With the power off, you can easily beep this out with your DMM. The negative rails will beep when touching the reg's metal tab and the heatsink but the positives should not.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 17, 2012, 09:24:41 PM
If the washers are inserted correctly, it will take some doing to get the screws crooked enough to short out the regs to the heatsinks. With the power off, you can easily beep this out with your DMM. The negative rails will beep when touching the reg's metal tab and the heatsink but the positives should not.

Good point, I do believe the screws are crooked enough because I drilled my own holes in the heatsink, which didn't line up correctly. I just checked for continuity, and they are indeed shorting out. I'm going to just order some new ones and do it the right way. If only I would have followed the build docs thoroughly the first time. Thanks for your input.

Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 17, 2012, 09:28:53 PM
Well sh!t does happen. Live and learn as they say. Keep us posted on your progress.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 18, 2012, 01:43:52 AM
May I recommend to control your insulating washers and silicone pads too?
Under no circumstance should they be damaged.When mounting them wrong and got just a bit too much force it is easy to break them.To get save swap them out too.

Just a thought,good luck,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 20, 2012, 05:05:23 AM
Thanks, that's not a bad idea. I'm pretty sure that they haven't been damaged, yet, and I already ordered the regulators. If I am still having issues after, then I will certainly give that a try.

Thanks

Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on November 20, 2012, 02:58:42 PM
Can we get a hypothetical rack configuration where 22 modules would be powered by one PSU?  if ya could name some specific modules, that'd be appreciated.  I'm trying to see if I actually need both of my PSUs because i only have 3 modules that actually use the 24V rail (51X-F76 x2 & VP312DI w/FET HiZ)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 20, 2012, 03:13:52 PM
Measure the current draw of each module that you have and come up with a total that is based on your real situation, not hypotheticals.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on November 20, 2012, 03:24:54 PM
lol I guess i gotta figure out how to measure current with my multimeter then!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on November 20, 2012, 05:43:53 PM
Just want to give you guys an update.. The psu is now fully functional! The 48v regulator was shot as well as the LED. Thanks for the help guys, what a relief.

Chad
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 21, 2012, 12:27:54 AM

Congrats Chad,have fun!

Udo ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: qmp audio on November 21, 2012, 11:15:02 PM
lol I guess i gotta figure out how to measure current with my multimeter then!

Would love to see your results Chuck.  I'm about to install new modules bringing me to 14 'vpr' and 6 51x.  Need to measure to see if my 1 power supply can handle both racks.... Which I'm pretty sure it can based on some of the vp26 etc specs I've read.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on November 23, 2012, 06:53:32 AM
that's what i'm trying to figure out.   the spec for the PSU says 11 16V modules and 11 24V modules.  but almost every 24V module uses both 16V and 24V rails :-/     we really need a PSU that handles 22 modules that use BOTH sets of rails simultaneously.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 23, 2012, 06:58:35 AM
... but almost every 24V module uses both 16V and 24V rails :-/
more specific - which modules do this?

we really need a PSU that handles 22 modules that use BOTH sets of rails simultaneously.
use two PSUs
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on November 23, 2012, 09:29:30 AM

 to put it another way , A friend bought one psu and two 51x racks , but I'm thinking he'll have
more 16 v modules than 24v  ,  that could be a problem ?   if he ends up trying to run more than half
of them for 16v and only a couple of 24 v ?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on November 23, 2012, 09:42:32 AM
Gentlemen, what is wrong with the specs?
We all don't know the power your individual modules will consume.
Measure and calculate. 8)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 23, 2012, 09:55:28 AM
Measure and calculate. 8)
+1
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on November 23, 2012, 10:19:01 AM
It is a pretty hefty psu xfmr as is , so doubling that may not be reasonable and not sure too many people
would be happy with the cost after that [ for something maybe not fully utilized ] and with a couple resister changes
 you can get two sets of 16v rails , I get that .  [ And the sexy red box DOES distract me from my girlfriend ]
Fuses are 1.5 amp per rail , can you remind me and confirm , that is my max draw ?
[ and although that may seem like a simple question that you may respond to by "  look it up yourself "
I appreciate the " official  " and knowledgeable confirmation  , thanks  ]

It is a good reminder for people to take into consideration when planning their racks , and those making
preamps  to include in their specs
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: tomas1808 on November 25, 2012, 03:52:34 PM
Silentarts and Jsteiger, do you sell the PCB separately? If so, what are the dimensions of the PCB? Thanks!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gar381 on November 25, 2012, 03:55:38 PM
Silentarts and Jsteiger, do you sell the PCB separately? If so, what are the dimensions of the PCB? Thanks!

http://classicapi.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=87_112&products_id=165

GARY
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 25, 2012, 05:13:28 PM
Indeed, thanks Gary. That is Volkers original.

The Floor Box PCB is also available separately.
http://classicapi.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=176_177&products_id=351 (http://classicapi.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=176_177&products_id=351)

 :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: tomas1808 on November 25, 2012, 05:18:36 PM
Yes, I was looking specifically for the newer version.

Thanks Gary and jsteiger.

EDIT: BTW would it be a good idea to build one of these to power my non-VPR-51X racks? I always wanted to build a single universal PSU for all my projects (or whatever number this PSU is able to power). This way I would save lots of space, avoid transformer related hum problems, and also would save me from building a PSU for every project (the most boring part IMO). Is this a good idea? Will I have some kind problem with grounding or something else I cant think of?. Thankss.

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sahib on November 27, 2012, 06:32:40 AM
Firstly, I still supply the rack type power supply. As I manufacture them in-house I even do variations to meet specific requirements.

In response to Chuck's query. My last batch of 15 rack PSUs were dual type, meaning two sets of power supplies in a single case. This can power up to four 511 racks.

However, one has to know the current consumption as Volker and Jeff pointed out.  If I am remembering correctly the accepted current rating per module was around 125mA though API specifies 160mA. So the average would be 1.5A per rack/per rail and both the rack and floor type PSUs will provide that comfortably.



Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 21, 2012, 06:24:14 AM
Hello,
I have some weird issues with my 51x PSU when it power two JensAmp-51x and two Phoenix audio DRS1R/500. I already post it in another thread because I thougth it was the pin configuration of phoenix preamp that doesn't match with the 511 lunchbox...

It seems that when I put a fourth preamp in my rack, I lost my +16V because of the 1,5A/250V fast blow fuse.
Here are the test I did:

Test 1:
Slot 1: JensAmp 51x
Slot 2: JensAmp 51x
Slot 3: empty
Slot 4: empty
All is right

Test 2:
Slot 1: JensAmp 51x
Slot 2: JensAmp 51x
Slot 3: DRS1R/500 n°1
Slot 4: empty
All is right

Test 3:
Slot 1: JensAmp 51x
Slot 2: JensAmp 51x
Slot 3: empty
Slot 4: DRS1R/500 n°1
All is right

Test 4 & 5
Same things but with DRS1R/500 n°2 instead of n°1
All is right

Test 6:
Slot 1: JensAmp 51x
Slot 2: JensAmp 51x
Slot 3: DRS1R/500 n°1
Slot 4: DRS1R/500 n°2
I lost +16V and the +16V 1,5A/250V fast blow fuse is DEAD...

Here are somes advices thanks to gemini86!
Quote
I would bet that there are some large filtering caps on all the board that will suck up a lot of current until fully charged. So, use a slow blow, which will withstand the inrush current for a few seconds before blowing.

Can I try to fix this with a 1,5A/250V SLOW blow fuse without damage preamps or PSU?
Do you think this is an other problem?


Phoenix audio DRS1R/500:
http://www.phoenixaudio.net/products/drs-1r/ (http://www.phoenixaudio.net/products/drs-1r/)

JensAmp 51x:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45341.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45341.0)

Topic: Phoenix Audio DRS1R/500 and 51xAudio lunchbox:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50807.0 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50807.0)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 21, 2012, 07:46:12 AM
There is one test missing:
2 x DRS1R/500 without any Jensamps

since I know the Jensamp doesn't touch any 16V rails results will be the same ...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 21, 2012, 01:03:59 PM
All my PSU rails are ok when I test it with my empty 511 lunchbox...
I put the two DRS1R/500 in the Lunchbox and power it (I remove the JensAmp for the moment? As you guess, nothing changes  ;D)
I tested it with a slow blow fuse.
I measured the "+16V rail" and find +4,5V...

Do you think I have a problem in the lunchbox or in the PSU?


Thanks for your help
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 21, 2012, 01:11:22 PM
Something must be wrong with your DRS1.
Or Your +16V PSU. Hard to tell remotely ...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Volume11 on December 21, 2012, 02:35:14 PM
Are you swapping the modules while the power to the rack is on? Silly question but, you never know. You should test the +16v rail with one module at a time. If your problem is indeed a drs1r, then maybe it will help you single the faulty one out. Unless they are the verdict, I suppose. Try more slots rather than just 3 and 4. I don't know much, just trying to use common sense here. I hope it helps somehow.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 22, 2012, 06:07:38 AM
Quote
Are you swapping the modules while the power to the rack is on?

NO!  ;D

Next stage:

Test 1
Slot 1: DRS1 n°1
Other Slots: empty
+16V Rail = +16,7V, so it's ok...

Test 2
Slot 1: DRS1 n°2
Other Slots: empty
+16V Rail = +16,7V, so it's ok...

It means that both DRS1 are ok, isn't it?

Test 3
Slot 1: DRS1 n°1
Slot 2: DRS1 n°2
Other Slots: empty
+16V Rail = +4,5V if I use a slow blow fuse and 0V if I use fast blow fuse (which is dead)...

Did I miss something? What about the jumpers for PIN1 in the Lunchbox?  Do I have to remove it or connect it to GND, chassis? I already connect it to chassis? but maybe I'm wrong...

I also did a test to see If my +16V rail is in short-circuit with GND when I use two DRS1. No problem with that.

About the AC16 voltage: Is this a problem if both AC16 are not in phase? I mean if the two AC16 secondary transformer connection are opposite... I don't think it is the case...

I don't know what to check now, AC16 voltage are goods, all rails are goods except +16V when I use two DRS1.
 :-\
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 22, 2012, 11:12:00 AM
I tried with all slots and I find that it's working with slot 7 to 11 and it doesn't work with slot 1 to 6...  :-\
I mean with two preamps. All still works with just one preamps.
I check for bad soldering or short-circuit and found nothing...
Any Ideas? :o
It's really weird. Could the SUB-D routing (or something like this) be responsible for +16V issue?
First SUB-D are for slots 1 to 6 and second for slots 7 to 11...
I am pretty sure the problem is comming from the lunchbox but I still have some doubts.
What do you think about that?

Thanks for your help  :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 22, 2012, 11:30:37 AM
It's really weird. Could the SUB-D routing (or something like this) be responsible for +16V issue?
First SUB-D are for slots 1 to 6 and second for slots 7 to 11...
not really, only the audio I/Os are routed, nothing PSU related.
however, do you have anything connected to the 50pin connectors?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 22, 2012, 11:34:32 AM
With these pre's working in slots 7-11, what V does the 16V rail measure? I would assume it is still very low but high enough for these pre's to pass audio, possibly with very low headroom.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 22, 2012, 11:55:30 AM
Quote
however, do you have anything connected to the 50pin connectors?

No, I though it could be the problem because of the correspondence with my test (1-6, 7-11)...

Quote
With these pre's working in slots 7-11, what V does the 16V rail measure?

I measured +16,7V or so.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 22, 2012, 12:01:04 PM
So, If you put a module in slot 6 and one in 7, the 16V rail drops? That is very odd. Are your card edge connectors 15 pin or 18 pin? If 18 pin, could it be that the modules were not seated properly? That is about the only thing I can think of that makes sense.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on December 22, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
Quote
So, If you put a module in slot 6 and one in 7, the 16V rail drops?
Yes, it is.

My card edge connectors are 18 pin.
I plug the modules very carefully each time I did, it change nothing.
I remove PCB from rack during the last test so I could seated modules as well as possible and it was the same.

When I put modules in slots 1 and 7 (for exemple) , only the +16V rail drops (it's not the case for -16V rail and others)
I was measuring +4V and I could hear hum noise from PSU and from DRS1 24V Transformer on slots 1 only...

really odd  :-X
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on December 28, 2012, 04:22:52 PM
So... Let's say that someone theoretically got sloppy and put in C27--one of the 10000 microfarad caps--backwards.  For the sake of argument, let's say that this person was checking the voltages after powering on for the first time and the cap exploded.  Besides feeling incredibly silly and needing a new 10000 microfarad cap, would this unnamed person expect to see any other damage caused by this little mixup?  All of this is hypothetical, clearly...  No one would put one of those clearly marked caps backwards on a clearly marked PCB and not check it against the readily available photos of a populated board.  That would just be ridiculous.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 28, 2012, 04:47:56 PM
Indeed that would not be fun and would maybe be VERY loud! Replacing the cap should be all that is needed.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on December 28, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
It was indeed very loud and startling.  Luckily my face wasn't over it at the time to get hit with the volcano jet.  It was also fun to clean up.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 28, 2012, 06:13:36 PM
It was indeed very loud and startling.  Luckily my face wasn't over it at the time to get hit with the volcano jet.  It was also fun to clean up.
Theoretically.... ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on December 29, 2012, 10:00:10 PM
Ha!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 02, 2013, 05:20:41 PM
Well, I replaced the blown up cap today and I don't have my +16.  The LED is not lit and I'm reading zero volts at the screw terminal. Any ideas?  All the rest of the terminals check out with the DMM.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 02, 2013, 05:43:59 PM
Well, I replaced the blown up cap today and I don't have my +16.  The LED is not lit and I'm reading zero volts at the screw terminal. Any ideas?  All the rest of the terminals check out with the DMM.
Check both sides of the +16V fuse. Until you verify that the LED is working (not backwards), I would rely on the DMM to make sure all rails are up. If the fuse is good, you should start at the toroid and step your way thru the circuit to see where you first loose your V readings. You will need to consult the schemo for this.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 02, 2013, 06:25:54 PM
The fuse tests fine on the DMM. I assume the LED is in properly since I'm not seeing voltage at the screw terminal, but I won't rely on it.  My diagnostic skills are rudimentary, but there's no better way to learn than fixing something you blew up!  I'll trace it down.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 05, 2013, 03:19:07 AM
My problem with the +16V rail has been solved, but I have a new problem....

It turns out the +16V rail being down had nothing to do with the cap going.  If I had used my brian for a minute, I would have realized that C27 is in the -16V section of the PCB.  What was wrong is that IC5 was overtightened against the heat sink and it cut a little groove in the silicone insulator and shorted to the heat sink.  Problem solved, but...

Now the +48V fuse blew.  I loaded each of the two racks with one module to test them and they worked fine.  I loaded the rest of my modules and the fuse went on the next power up.  No phantom power was engaged.  Any idea on what to look into?  I figured I'd start by loading modules one at a time and see if I can narrow it down, but I'm all ears if there's something I should look into.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 05, 2013, 04:07:13 AM
Hello,

the more often I read your post the more I think that a module has not been seated properly.
Could you please tell us which kind of rack you're using and what kind of modules?
"No phantom power was engaged" indicates that you have mic pres as modules,no?
So e.g. a vp series pre inserted in a 51x rack might short pins if not done properly without(!) phantom switches engaged on the module itself.

Hope to have helped,

Best regards,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 05, 2013, 09:39:23 AM
I built a VPR rack and a 51x rack.  I have mostly preamps in it and a couple compressors.  I'll check the seating of each unit later today.  It seems like it would be difficult to short to the 24V rails with a standard VPR module since there's a NC buffer pin in between, but hey, I'm a guy who put a big cap in backwards!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 05, 2013, 11:04:35 AM
I built a VPR rack and a 51x rack.  I have mostly preamps in it and a couple compressors.  I'll check the seating of each unit later today.  It seems like it would be difficult to short to the 24V rails with a standard VPR module since there's a NC buffer pin in between, but hey, I'm a guy who put a big cap in backwards!
Hahaha.....yes,but I think everybody here had some strange experiences in diy,at least you've got the balls to talk about it! ;D
But seriously one can short nearly any card edge connector contact to it's "neighbourhood" by inserting the goldfingers between two of them.It only doesn't happen when a vpr module sits in a vpr rack or a 51x module (18 pins) sits in a 51x rack.But it is possible to do it with a vpr module in a 51x rack.
I would give it a closer look,who knows....
In my builds I secured the vpr modules in my 51x racks by inserting a small but good fitting piece of plastic or so in the card edge connectors.I used some pieces of veroboard(?),the type that doesn't have copper pads of course ;).

Cheers,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 05, 2013, 12:47:51 PM
I guess I was thinking the problem would involve the 24V rails, but I get you. Since there is room for the edge connector to slide down, one could easily short a pin to the one below it. I'll try powering up my VPR rack with a new fuse to rule it out and then, if that passes, carefully reseat my VP modules in the 51x rack.  All my units are 15 pin at the moment, so it's possible you've guessed the problem correctly. I'll report back when I've had a chance to look. I'd like to get more fuses before experimentation begins. I only have one good one left!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 05, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
Go googacky go,good luck,hahahaha.........

Udo. ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 07, 2013, 07:43:31 PM
Alright.... so the plot thickens.  I'm still blowing fuses, but I've traced the problem down to my Shadow Hills Mono GAMAs.

Here's the rundown of the modules that I had loaded in the racks:

VPR Rack:
Slots 1 through 4: Shadow Hills Mono GAMAs
Slot 5: empty
Slot 6 and 7: API 512Cs
Slot 8: empty
Slots 9 and 10: API 525s

51X Rack:
Slots 1 through 4: CAPI VP26s
Slot 5: empty
Slot 6 and 7: CAPI VP28s
Slots 8 through 11: empty

I only had one spare fuse, so I thought I'd poke around a little and figure some stuff out before endangering it.  In doing so, I had my DMM set to ring continuity and discovered that on my VPR rack, pin 3 (the +16V rail) was shorted to pins 1 and 2 (chassis and PSU ground).  I figured it was might be the connector itself, so I started to pull modules to take it apart and have a look.  Once I pulled the modules, it no longer rang.  I started adding modules back and noticed that the API units were fine and having one Mono GAMA in was OK.  It's when I added a second Mono GAMA that the ringing started again.  It didn't matter which two of the four modules I have or which two slots, but every time a second Mono GAMA went in, I'd read pin 3 shorted to pins 1 and two.  I put the SH pres back in my BAE six space rack and discovered the same behavior.  With a single Mono GAMA in, no shorts, with two in, +16 rang to PSU ground.  Since the units were operating in the BAE rack, I figured that the problem must have to do with the 51x VPR rack jumpers, since this is a variable between the two racks.  I originally had all the jumpers set to connect pin 1 to chassis. 

I replaced my blown fuse with the spare, loaded all the modules except the Mono GAMAs and powered up just the VPR rack.  Everything was cool.  I reloaded the 51x rack and powered just that one on.  No problems, ruling out a short from VPR modules being loaded in a 51x rack being the problem.  Next, I moved the jumpers of slots 1 through 4 in the VPR rack from pin 1 to chassis to pin 1 to PSU ground.  I thought that the Mono GAMAs might behave fine since the BAE has this ground scheme.  I loaded a single Mono GAMA, powered up and had no problems.  I added a second, powered up and blew the damn fuse!  What is going on here?  I'm befuddled by the strange behavior of the GAMAs.  Do they short one rail to ground and only run on -16V?  Why does adding a second unit alter the behavior?  I must admit I'm pretty light on knowledge here, but I'm hoping to learn.  Any ideas?

To further muddy the waters and potentially run off on a tangent....  Two of my Mono GAMAs pass phantom power regardless of switch position.  The switch, however, tests fine with the DMM.  Confusing...  Neither of these units were used in my above tests.  I thought that their strange behavior may be contributing to the problem, so I quarantined them and loaded only the two known normally operating units for my tests.

I ordered a dozen fuses so I can experiment further when I get them and not have to worry about blowing them.  Should I have swapped all the jumpers and not just he Mono GAMA channels?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 07, 2013, 08:00:08 PM
Hmm, interesting. I am not at all familiar with the SH stuff but know them as a very reputable manufacturer. They would not intentionally be shorting the +16V to ground. I wonder if they are using tantalum caps for local PSU decoupling in their modules. I would open them up and have a look. I believe tants short when they fail. I do not think it has anything to do with the pin-1 jumpers in the racks. It sounds like it is module related.

FWIW, I had a hard time following the pin #'s you were referring to but then it hit me that you were talking about the 7-pin Neutrik pin #'s.

Also, with the suspect SH modules out of your rack, you can probe for continuity at the modules gold fingers. See if you have continuity from gold finger 12 (+16V) to gold finger 13 (PSU gnd). You should not have a low reading or a beep.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 07, 2013, 11:40:48 PM
I should have been more clear that I was testing the power connector!  It's the five pin on the VPR rack, but you get the gist.

I just ran a little experiment:  I probed edge connector pins 12 and 13 for continuity. No ring. I put one SH unit in, no ring. I put a second unit in and it rings. I tried all three othe modules against the other. All ring. I pulled the original and put another in to start and performed the same test with the same result. Any pairs ring once the second go in, so the behavior is not specific to one or two modules. All of them do it. I can't imagine they all failed in the same fashion unless something happened on initial power up of the rack. I'll make sure the units still pass signal and behave normally tomorrow when I'm back at the studio.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 08, 2013, 12:28:48 AM
Measure the DCR from pins 12 to 13 on one (or all) of those SH units. Measure the module itself while not in the rack. Forget the rack for a moment.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 08, 2013, 11:56:02 AM
Alright.... I've looked at each SH module and pins 12 and 13 do not short on any of the units when they're out of the rack.  With the DMM set to measure resistance, I'm seeing an ohm reading in the mid sixties on each unit.  I've also loaded the units back in the BAE rack and have verified that they are operating normally.  (Even to the extent that my phantom-power-stuck-on issue is no longer happening.  I suppose we can all forget the mention of that then.  Chasing ghosts...)

Does anyone else around here have Mono GAMAs in their 51x Alliance racks?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 08, 2013, 12:11:16 PM
So you are saying that you measure 65 ohms between gold fingers 12 and 13 on the SH units? 2 units together in a rack would be 32 ohms and so on as you add more. Something seems odd about this. It also seems odd that they work in the BAE rack and not in the 51x rack.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: googacky on January 08, 2013, 12:23:52 PM
That's what I'm saying... if I know what I'm doing!  I agree it is odd.  I have the SH units in the BAE rack right now, tested each channel and they are behaving absolutely normally.  I determined the pinout on the BAE rack and observed the same phenomena of the +16V rail ringing continuity with the PSU ground when a second unit goes in the rack.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 19, 2013, 09:24:31 AM
I'm having some trouble with powering up my PSU.
I keep blowing my AC connector input fuse and I don't exactly know what's the problem.

(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/foesters/P1190116_zpscb605e23.jpg)

(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/foesters/P1190117_zps9b229c7b.jpg)

(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/foesters/P1190119_zps19383d6b.jpg)

Any thoughts on what could be wrong?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 20, 2013, 09:12:20 AM
tried another fuse.
Still blowing it...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 20, 2013, 11:00:28 AM
tried another fuse.
Still blowing it...
tried a piece of string. too short.
tried another piece of string. still too short...

You couldn't be more unspecific.
What is your local AC mains voltage ? (updating your profile with at least your continent might give us a clue).
What is your fuse rating and fusing characteristic ? (mA / tt,t,m,,f,ff)
Is the fuse blowing with load connected ?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 20, 2013, 03:50:13 PM
tried another fuse.
Still blowing it...
tried a piece of string. too short.
tried another piece of string. still too short...

You couldn't be more unspecific.
What is your local AC mains voltage ? (updating your profile with at least your continent might give us a clue).
What is your fuse rating and fusing characteristic ? (mA / tt,t,m,,f,ff)
Is the fuse blowing with load connected ?

Oh sorry!
I'm located in Belgium. So it's 230volts.
The fuse is the T2.5AL250V one, like the manual said.

I'm at step 36-37 in the manual where you need to power on the PSU.
The moment I pop it on, it blows the fuse.

I based my wiring on the info Kante1603 provided in post 3.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 20, 2013, 04:48:30 PM

I based my wiring on the info Kante1603 provided in post 3.
Hello,

I have compared my pics to yours,the wiring seems to be correct,at least at the screw terminal.
You've got your kit from volker (silent arts),right?
Looks like you have a dead short somewhere.
Check for solder blobs and good joints as usual.
After that I would start to look at the transformer first to see if it is o.k..
Lift the wires temporarily from the screw terminal as well as the primary wires.Check if all primaries and secondaries for dcr.Under no circumstance should there be a reading at zero ohms.Check them amongst each other too.
Sadly I don't have mine here to cross-check/compare it to yours,it's "working" on my f.o.h. at the moment.

Hope that helps,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 20, 2013, 07:44:16 PM
I'm located in Belgium. So it's 230volts.
..and from your pic you wired the 1st. (115VAC) primary winding to 230VAC instead of a series connection. Ouch.
Quote
The fuse is the T2.5AL250V one, like the manual said.
...for US 115VAC mains. Use half of this rating for european 230VAC mains.

Exchange the white wire from the 1st.primary winding with the white wire from the 2nd.primary winding at your mains voltage selector switch and hope, your transformer survived this abuse. Hope as well, the fuse blew faster than your caps and voltage regulators, seeing double of expected secondary input voltage before the fuse decided, this might not be healthy and better to commit suicide.

Good luck.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 21, 2013, 01:48:59 AM
I'm located in Belgium. So it's 230volts.
..and from your pic you wired the 1st. (115VAC) primary winding to 230VAC instead of a series connection. Ouch.

Auaaahhhh.....
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 21, 2013, 05:49:10 AM

Exchange the white wire from the 1st.primary winding with the white wire from the 2nd.primary winding at your mains voltage selector switch and hope, your transformer survived this abuse. Hope as well, the fuse blew faster than your caps and voltage regulators, seeing double of expected secondary input voltage before the fuse decided, this might not be healthy and better to commit suicide.

Good luck.

Ow damn stupid me...
So i just change the 2 white primary wirings and switch the fuse to a 1.5a/230v fuse, and hope for the best ?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 21, 2013, 06:32:55 AM
Ow damn stupid me...
So i just change the 2 white primary wirings and switch the fuse to a 1.5a/230v fuse, and hope for the best ?
Half of 2.5A is ??? ...
For your mains wiring, this little scetchup (http://www.hausverwaltung-heger.de/al_leck_trick/VPR_51x_Mains_wiring.gif) might help you a little...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 21, 2013, 06:50:08 AM
ok thanks

(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/foesters/P1210121_zps084b00ec.jpg)

So this should be right.

Yeah the reason I say 1.5a fuse, is because I don't see any 1.25a fuses.
In my package from volker there was only the 160mA, 2,5a and 1,5a?
Do need to get a 1,25a fuse from the shop ?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 21, 2013, 08:04:37 AM
So this should be right.
yepp. (just hope, the fuse was blowing faster than your transformer windings and maybe resulting followups)

Quote
Yeah the reason I say 1.5a fuse, is because I don't see any 1.25a fuses.
In my package from volker there was only the 160mA, 2,5a and 1,5a?
Do need to get a 1,25a fuse from the shop ?

Doesn't matter in this case, but try to be a little more exact in your posts. 'the 160mA, 2,5a and 1,5a' would be 3 fuses and rating is missing their fusing characteristic. There are 5 fuses on pcb and one inside the IEC socket.

Both 1.5A/t or 1.25A/t will do for fusing your AC mains connection.
The 1.5A/t fuse from Volker once was a fuse, so you'd need a replacement anyway.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 21, 2013, 08:32:07 AM
I blew the two T2.5AL250C fuses.
Still got two 1,5A250V fuses and one 250CM160(or 160M/C250 fuse, don't exactly know how to read this) fuse.

So I use the 1,5A250V for the IEC socket
On the PCB I used in F1 the 250CM160 fuse and for F2-F5 I used four 1,5A250V fuses. Like the manual said.
Why are the T2.5AL250C fuses included if I don't need them?


Btw: sorry for my stupid questions, but i'm not super familiar with fuses. And the manual is a bit confusing because of the European 230v wiring. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: foesters on January 22, 2013, 01:45:23 AM
Is that correct?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 22, 2013, 10:02:25 AM
Hi guys,

I'm pretty new to building stuff, I have built a few pre amp modules and am self taught so any help appreciated!

Im building a VPR PSU though my multi meter readings seem to be wrong ( and turing the trim pots seems not to be changing anything) so perhaps I have gone wrong somewhere ?

With the mutimeter switched to dc and the black end on the star ground stud my readings are -

+48 = 0.2
-V # 2 = -.08
+V# 2 = 0.8
+16v = 0.00
-16 v = -0.4
+48 = 0.2

also not sure which +48 corresponds to the trim pot ?

Any help much appreciated!

Brett
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 22, 2013, 10:35:12 AM
The +48V terminals are a mult so you can use either one when adjusting.

Something is not right though because at start up, the measurements will be very close to their target like I specify in the build guide. You basically have no DC readings. Is the mains switch set to 230V (since you are in Europe) ?. Is the mains fuse blown for some reason? Do you have the proper AC readings if you probe at the inlet header from the toroid?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 22, 2013, 11:34:58 AM
Hi Jeff,

Yes switched to 230v , main fuse in tact. Though I did trip my wall sockets fuse first time as i had a jumper going across the bottom row of the 115v/230v switch as in the build pictures ( though took this out).

Could you tell me how to probe from the inlet header from the toroid ? ( as I don'r know these terms sorry! ).

Thanks,

Brett
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 23, 2013, 05:59:14 AM
Here are some images of the build if it helps. I use electrical tape on some ends to make sure there was no metal work showing though looks a but messy.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img705/9593/photo44a.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/3081/photo43mc.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/1220/photo42ot.jpg)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 23, 2013, 07:51:26 AM
Yes switched to 230v , main fuse in tact. Though I did trip my wall sockets fuse first time ...
:o will trip again with neutral (your white wire) and safety ground (your green/yellow wire) flipped at your IEC socket.
Quote
... as i had a jumper going across the bottom row of the 115v/230v switch as in the build pictures ( though took this out).
Using the mains voltage selector switch, without this jumper you will miss the needed transformer primary windings series connection for 230VAC mains (not parallel for 115VAC mains). Have a look some posts above for another european hookup (obviously using a different transformer)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 23, 2013, 11:52:15 AM
Yes switched to 230v , main fuse in tact. Though I did trip my wall sockets fuse first time ...
:o will trip again with neutral (your white wire) and safety ground (your green/yellow wire) flipped at your IEC socket.
Quote
... as i had a jumper going across the bottom row of the 115v/230v switch as in the build pictures ( though took this out).
Using the mains voltage selector switch, without this jumper you will miss the needed transformer primary windings series connection for 230VAC mains (not parallel for 115VAC mains). Have a look some posts above for another european hookup (obviously using a different transformer)

Hi Harpo ,

thanks for the response. I see I had the ground switched now, that makes sense . Does this mean if I swap them over ( and add the jumper on the Voltage selector switch) I am ok to do the Voltage checks or do I need to do further re wiring ?

Thanks a lot,

Brett
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Harpo on January 23, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Does this mean if I swap them over ( and add the jumper on the Voltage selector switch) I am ok to do the Voltage checks or do I need to do further re wiring ?
Probably, but hard to see on your pics and you want to build this correct and safe.
Have a look at the 1st.page of this thread for a visual crossreference and that this matches your transformer and your transformers datasheet or printed on label (colour coding is not standarized, so a different type/vendor of this transformer will/might use a different scheme). Your mains voltage selector switch hookup might look something like http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.gif (http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.gif) for the 51x-toroid, Jeff is selling. For the european type you can get thru Volker [silent:arts], have a look some posts above.

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 23, 2013, 12:08:48 PM
Probably, but hard to see on your pics and you want to build this correct and safe.
Have a look at the 1st.page of this thread for a visual crossreference and that this matches your transformer and your transformers datasheet or printed on label (colour coding is not standarized, so a different type/vendor of this transformer will/might use a different scheme). Your mains voltage selector switch hookup might look something like http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.gif (http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-28.gif) for the 51x-toroid, Jeff is selling. For the european type you can get thru Volker [silent:arts], have a look some posts above.
[/quote]

Thanks again for the answer Harpo, my mains and voltage switches now have exactly the same wiring as the pictures in the beginning of the tread . Though my transformer has black leads that go to ac48v on the pcb (instead of white ones) though I read earlier in the thread that that was ok?

I tried to read the voltages though now it says 2.4 on the +48v , and the the +16 and +48 lights are now not coming on , so must be still going wrong somewhere ?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Brett
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on January 23, 2013, 12:16:21 PM
....Though my transformer has black leads that go to ac48v on the pcb (instead of white ones) though I read earlier in the thread that that was ok?...
Yes that is fine. For the US toroids, the black leads for the 48V windings indicate that is a dual VPR toroid. The white leads are for the 51x version. Besides the part#, that is how I tell them apart.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brettooo on January 24, 2013, 08:44:11 AM
....Though my transformer has black leads that go to ac48v on the pcb (instead of white ones) though I read earlier in the thread that that was ok?...
Yes that is fine. For the US toroids, the black leads for the 48V windings indicate that is a dual VPR toroid. The white leads are for the 51x version. Besides the part#, that is how I tell them apart.

Thanks Jeff,

Any idea why it's not working ? Do I need to switch any of the wires to the european versions ( though i have the U.S transformer) ?

Thanks,

Brett
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: saxmonster on February 03, 2013, 02:10:50 PM
What are the sizes for this PSU, tried looking everywhere but can't seem to find anything.  I probably just over looked it knowing me. Was thinking about getting one of the floor PSU and selling my original 51X rack version PSU.

-Scott

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 03, 2013, 02:45:24 PM
It's appx 6 3/8" wide, 4" tall and 13 3/8" long.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: saxmonster on February 03, 2013, 04:04:23 PM
Thanks Jeff.  Hey Jeff would a male 7 pin connector fit or would i be able to mod it, where the wire goes into the psu?  I have 2 nice cables I would hate to take apart, hahahahah.

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 03, 2013, 05:51:09 PM
It would not fit without some work. I do have some spare front panels from my proto run if that will help you.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on February 09, 2013, 10:48:13 AM
Hello!

I had some issues with my +16V rails using two Phoenix Audio DRS-1R (remember?).
I changed the LM350 +16V regulator for a new one and all seems to be find! I measured +16,7V (or so) as It should be.
BUT, I used a slow blow fuse (T1,5A/250V) in order to fix my problem. Then, I tried with a fast blow fuse (F1,5A/250V)...
First start: ok for the +16V rail but with a little spike from the fuse.
Second start: fuse is dead.

It really seems that Phoenix Audio modules suck up to much current at start up.

Can I use another fuse with value like 2A but with fast caracteristics in order to have fast protection for my modules?

Do you think there is another problem?
Could it be some bad wiring with leakage current or something like this?

Thanks for your help

best
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on February 09, 2013, 05:17:13 PM
Today, I received a mail from phoenix audio with the DRS1R/500 specs :

Quote
the +16v rail of the Phoenix DRS1R/500 is 118ma (which is within the API VPR spec) and being that the unit is Class A discrete the inrush is very slightly higher.

What do you think about that? These modules can't blow a 1,5A fast blow fuse, isn't it?
What's wrong with my set up???  :-[

thanks for your help!!!  :o
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2013, 05:25:09 PM
No, there must be something else wrong with the build. I would keep looking.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on February 13, 2013, 08:03:05 AM
All right!
I check again an again! And now it's working!  8)
I think it was about the 7 pin connector on rear of the rack which was to tight against the chassis or PCB's rack...
I didn't find any short circuit or impedance problem with my tester... never trust it! I lost +16V rail because of leakage current at this connector. I think the +16V regulator didn't work really fine too...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help and congratulation for this great gear!
Thanks Volker for the candies!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on February 13, 2013, 08:07:50 AM
more pictures!!!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: nolivdacom on February 13, 2013, 08:11:36 AM
7 pin connector...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: BajenKeno on March 18, 2013, 05:18:12 AM
So I opened one of the bags and these little fellas decided that the floor was a interesting place to visit!
First I tried to figure out what they are (some kind of spacer I presume) and then I tried to get some info on how many the bag was supposed to contain. Failed at both!

So my question to you good people is, what are they and how many am I supposed to possess? (I got 5 atm).

Regards, Simon.

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: warpie on March 18, 2013, 07:38:11 AM
well, you found them all I guess  ;)

http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-11.jpg
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: AdamWillden on June 24, 2013, 03:32:37 AM
Firstly, many thanks to Cemal for his email support and Group 51X generally for the fantastic quality product (and instructions). First thing I've tried doing DIY and now will be hooked like the rest of you!

Secondly I'm posting here in case someone was a numpty like I:

Basically I had my primaries wrongly wired then ended up chasing my tail for a second non-existent problem due to using a fast blow fuse.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on July 02, 2013, 05:55:33 PM
Maybe I'm being punished by higher powers for thinking I got the PSU built right at first attempt, because now - after connecting the cables to the racks - all of a sudden the mains blows at every power up. All fuses on PCB intact, so hopefully Adam's tip about getting a slow fuse for the mains will fix the problem. Gonna check that tomorrow, Meanwhile perhaps someone could reply if my readings seems ok when measuring the primaries of the transformer? Measured in series (for 230V), just like it was wired two days ago when everything was ok and I was able to trim 16V, 24V and 48V, I get just north of 9Ω.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 02, 2013, 06:56:50 PM
Hi Paul,

if it happens again with a slow blow fuse try it with an empty rack.This way we can sort out if it is rack- or module related.
Do you drive one or two racks?
How many and which modules are inserted?
Did the modules work already,maybe in another rack?
Since the psu did work already some days ago it can't be too hard to find.
If it works with an empty rack insert one module after the other and see what happens.
Btw.,only the mains fuse blew up?
Did it blow immediately or after say some seconds?
This could indicate either a short ( somewhere in the rack) or generally too much power by inrush current.

Let us know,

best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on July 03, 2013, 05:25:35 AM
Thanks Udo!
Just bought slow 1.25A fuses. Gonna test tonight. Meanwhile:
Only mains fuse blew, and immediately at power up.
All fuses on PCB ok
It's a dual PSU
No modules in racks.
Tested also without racks connected - no success
Measured for shorts yesterday night. Couldn't find anything obvious, but 'pinged' on the mains (live/neutral) and got a 9.2Ω reading and just wanted to check if that seems ok.
Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed that the new fuse will fix it…
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 03, 2013, 05:29:23 AM
I measure 4,5Ω on each primary winding - 9,2Ω for 230V sounds fine.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 03, 2013, 05:34:03 AM
I measure 4,5Ω on each primary winding - 9,2Ω for 230V sounds fine.
Same here!
Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 03, 2013, 01:43:41 PM
Me again,

does that mean this happens even when nothing is connected to the psu?
If so and you saying it worked some days ago I tried to think logical.
What has changed then-yes,it might be a mechanical thing,maybe a wire forced down,maybe a solder joint becoming loose or short to metall,and something else:
Does the mounting screw going through the center of the transformer eventually touch the top lid?
If so it could cause a magnetic short (1 winding).

Maybe you can post some pics of your build.

Just thoughts,but who knows what it's good for....

Good luck and let us know,

Udo
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on July 03, 2013, 02:40:34 PM
Udo, you're too kind! Really. Thank You.
Success here! The new slow fuse seems to have made it, knock on wood...
PSU sealed and ready for my studio.
Excuse me for taking your time when everything was ok.
This kit needs a sticker for the mains on the backside, like: Fuse: US Slow 2.5A/EU Slow 1.25A ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 03, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
Great!

Hopefully it really was a crappy fuse (imagine me searching for wood to knock on too,hahaha....).

Best regards,

Udo. ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: electroshift on July 04, 2013, 05:25:36 AM
Hi folks, I recently finished my PSU and everything seems to be working fine. Many thanks to Jeff for having such a great product and setting up this thread for documentation. I was a bit weary of having the cables attached to the PCB, even with the fasteners, so I performed the little mod shown in the attached picture. Pretty self explanatory change, I just need to buy the extra connectors to finish it :)

Cheers,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 04, 2013, 06:03:11 AM
Cool. And I thought I'm the only one with this mod ;-)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on July 04, 2013, 11:45:02 AM
the old PSU came with 7-pin XLR connectors.  I'm surprised this build didn't; it seems like a commons sense design choice...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 04, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
the old PSU came with 7-pin XLR connectors.  I'm surprised this build didn't; it seems like a commons sense design choice...
The choice of using the Heyco cord grips was customer driven. Folks were wanting a lower cost PSU solution so an easy thing to do was eliminate 2 panel mount 7-pin XLR's and 2 cable mount 7-pin XLR's. That drops a dual cable build by about $44.00. That is common sense.  8)

If someone wants this, as seen above, it is easy to do, not to mention, this is still DIY.  ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 04, 2013, 12:38:57 PM
If someone wants this, as seen above, it is easy to do, not to mention, this is still DIY.  ;)
yes it is  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 28, 2013, 04:52:37 AM
Hi Paul!

Update2: Measured resistance between middle pin on Voltage regulators and chassi:
+16V - starting at approx 200Ω and moving upwards
-16V - 7Ω
+24V - zero Ω
-24V 6Ω
+48V - starting at approx 200Ω and moving upwards

Is this ok?..

The negative regs seem to be o.k.,the positive 16 & 48vdc too (caps start charging here,that´s why they move),

but the +24vdc definetely isn´t!

Don´t know why you measured a probe on chassis,you would normally do it at the GND of the psu,and the middle pin of the regulators is their output (!),so you don´t measure them at all.
But:You have found a dead short there by accident,hahahaha....... ;)
And I think already know what is happening:This pin 2 on the regulator connects to the metal plate on the back too,that´s why we have to mount them isolated using a silicone rubber pad and a plastic washer guiding the mounting screw.
I´m close to 100% sure that you can measure (dmm set to ohms) continuity between the metal plate on its front and the screw head (which then connects to the chassis).
If that is the case then you must do the regulator mounting again,use a new pad/washer.
If you can´t find spare parts here´s a link that could work for you,otherwise do a search like "transistor isolation" and "Glimmer" or "silicone" and "pad":

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/155140/Montagematerial-Set-fuer-TO-220-Gehaeuse-SCI-A18-9B-Passend-fuer-TO-220-Material-Glimmer/?ref=no_search_results&rt=no_search_results&rb=1


Easy to overtighten this screw,so be careful and measure after that again.There should be no continuity between the metal part of the reg and the chassis.I do that all times on all regs before proceeding,better safe than sorry,right?

Report back here please,I guess you found it!

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 28, 2013, 06:22:27 AM
Hi Paul,

if you find the plastic washers are o.k. then reuse them (I´m german,so this is "Deutsche Gründlichkeit" ;D).
Take care of the regulators back sides,the must be clean,any even microscopic part of residual cut of wire or so can damage the rubber pad!
I guess this short affects the load on the transformer,specs will change then the more you load it down.Just a guess....
But you should get the psu up and running first anyway,if you find a fault like this you must fix it before doing anything else.

I´m also quite sure that once the psu is fixed your TB550As won´t cause a voltage drop anymore.

Tell us what you get,have fun,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 28, 2013, 06:25:05 AM
So the low resistance on the -16V and -24V is ok (my DMM beeps....)?
yes. look at the schematic. the output from the regulator goes to ground at the negative voltages.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 28, 2013, 06:42:48 AM
Thanks for chiming in Volker,forgot that question.
I also opened up one of my "monster-psu´s" to confirm that,all good here!

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 28, 2013, 10:29:36 AM
Thanks again Udo and Volker!

It's Sunday and without material here I used some thin compact cardboard, the ones that some small transistors comes with. I cut small pieces of that, made holes, and put between the old rubber pad and the regulators. Did it on all five regulators,
Hahaha...that´s true diy........hopefully they do a good thermal transfer!
so perhaps it could be called a semi-german solution, or at least quarter-german  :D  Everything is now measuring ok on that side.
Good to hear/read!
BUT the +16V is still dropping, more for each TB550A I put in.
Bad to hear/read.
What confuses me is that you stated that your LC53s worked in the same situation (sure they didn´t load down the+16vdc same way as two TB550As?).Since both builds are somewhat similar (at least concerning power consumption) I absolutely don´t get it,especially when you say that the TBs do work in a Purple rack.
I´m running out of ideas at the moment.....sorry.
Just got email from Brian that he suggests that I resolder the big caps, and a possible fault with a regulator. Should I perhaps swap regulators to see if the problem moves? Or do you have any other ideas on were to search?

Thank You!
Paul
I´d say follow Brian´s instructions first,and swap out the LM350T to a new one.It´s a cheap standard part.
But I must say I never heard an LM go down load dependent,only latch up issues if so.......

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on July 28, 2013, 06:36:24 PM
Edit: To use a little less space on this thread I'm going to delete my recent posts and compress into this post instead:
Problem: 1) Mains fuse blowing frequently 2) When I had more than four units in the rack the level fell about 10-15dB 3) General random behaviour
I found three mistakes on my PSU build: A) Continuity between chassi and middle pin on one of the voltage regulators B) Didn't notice that voltage regulator called IC1 was different than the others (for the 48V) and it ended up at IC5 (+16V) C) Forgot to solder one leg on one of the large caps.
Everything looked ok at power up so I didn't notice anything strange until I got the hooked up in my studio. The drop in level was beacuse of the misplaced regulator causing voltage to drop for every module put in the rack. With more than four modules in, the voltage dropped below 13V and modules didn't work properly


Success finally! Moved that TL783 regulator that I had mistakenly put at IC5 instead of instead of IC1. The fix was a bit messy and I was afraid that the regulators got too much of my soldering iron, but now voltage remains the same with all my seven eqs in the rack.

BTW Udo, Brian commented that his 550As draws a bit more current than the LC53As (edit: TB550A with GAR2520: 125mA @ +16V/110mA @ -16V compared to Udo's measurement on the LC53A: 75mA), among other things because he has added relays to the design to make the unit go into hard bypass mode and still passing audio if power goes down.

I know it was a real noob mistake. And I'm spoiled by Horvitz's assembly guides and Chunger's detailed photo documentation, but I'd like to humbly suggest a little addition to the Floor Box Assembly Aid, pg3, part 9, it says 'Following the BOM' (which is obviously what I missed...), following that it would be nice with a little heads up, like 'note that the single TL783 goes into the IC1'

Best
Paul
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on July 28, 2013, 07:13:21 PM
Success finally! Moved that TL783 regulator that I had mistakenly put at IC5 instead of instead of IC1. The fix was a bit messy and I was afraid that the regulators got too much of my soldering iron, but now voltage remains the same with all my seven eqs in the rack.

BTW Udo, Brian commented that his 550As draws a bit more current than the LC53As, among other things because he has added relays to the design to make the unit go into hard bypass mode and still passing audio if power goes down.

After building more than ten 500 format units without any big problem I'm a bit dissapionted that I did two major ones on this build...

I know it was a real noob mistake. And I'm spoiled by Horvitz's assembly guides and Chunger's detailed photo documentation, but I'd like to humbly suggest a little addition to the Floor Box Assembly Aid, pg3, part 9, it says 'Following the BOM' (which is obviously what I missed...), following that it would be nice with a little heads up, like 'note that the single TL783 goes into the IC1'

Best
Paul
Hello Paul,

poooooohhhhhh.......you did it!That was a hard road,hahaha.......
Glad you got it all solved and running now,sh*t happens!
About the additional current draw of the TB550As,it will still be in the ballpark even with 1 or two relays,so within the specs for one slot.I was looking for some kind of general behaviour concerning loading down the psu.

And about the regs and putting them in the wrong place:I always start to read the BOM and look for parts I don´t know exactly.
Then I google and study them until it makes "click" in my brain.Therefore I would have known that a LM350 handles up to roughly 35vdc while a TL783 goes up to 125 vdc,but at a way lower current.So it is the phantom power rail at +48vdc (...the brain starts working........"click!"... ;D).
I collect all data,it´s always a good source to have them handy.Just a suggestion........ ;)

Congrats Paul,have fun EQing now!

Best regards from germany,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on July 29, 2013, 03:41:59 AM
I always start to read the BOM and look for parts I don´t know exactly.Then I google and study them until it makes "click" in my brain.
[/quote]
You are an übermench, that's totally clear! :) I've read about what different components do, Ohms law etc etc many times, but it still doesn't make a click in my brain, and it doesn't stick. For you I guess that's what a C major scale is for me. Very basic.
I'm thinking that by offering full kits ready for building, and by having assembly guides etc - a very different thing from the guy building a 670 from the ground up - people with little theoretical knowledge but ok assembling/soldering skills like me are invited, and the crowd is getting bigger. So, even if it's not hard core DIY, optimizing assembly guides like Horwitz and Chunger would perhaps save time for everybody? But that's another topic. Perhaps I'll bring it up in the Brewery...
Cheers
Paul
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on August 18, 2013, 07:09:38 AM
Hello there.

First post, so I should probably introduce myself!

I'm Kaz, from the UK. Software Engineering (indie) Game Dev looking for a new hobby, and DIY recording gear seems to be it! (need something to stop me coding 16 hours a day!)

I've been lurking for a while trying to work out whether the DIY thing was something I was comfortable with, and I've had time to read many of the posts, so I should say a big thank you to all of you for providing such a great resource. I already feel like I've learnt stuff!

I plan on ordering and building the 51x rack and PSU (assuming they're still available), but have been reading up to try and get my understanding to a level where I'm not going to kill myself if I do this! ;-)

I have some questions, which I hope are not entirely silly, and hopefully will have fairly straightforward answers! My apologies if any of the terminology is wrong, as I'm a software engineer by profession and was never really great at the electronics stuff.

I've (briefly) looked at the PSU schematic, and it seems to suggest that different component choices in the PSU circuit choose between 16/24 vdc for the last secondary in the transformer. Is the transformer the same in both the VPR and 51x variants of the PSU? My assumption is that they must be different, as one of the secondaries would need to be wound differently, right? (just trying to work out whether the kit I get limits my choices up front!)

I'm a bit of newbie at this stuff, as it's been a long time since I've had to do any electronics (15+ years!), but it looks like there are two outputs from each of the circuits attached to each of the secondaries. I'm guessing that each of the output As from each circuit are bundled together and sent to a rack. The same for the B outputs too. Umm, a bit like:

16 | 16                 24 | 24             48 | 48
 |      |                    |      |                |      |---------------|
 |      |----------------)-----)-------------)--------------|       |
 |                           |      |-------------)------------- -)--|  |
 |                           |                       |                  |   |   |
 |-------------------|  |  |-----------------                  |   |   |
                          |  |  |                                       |   |   |
                          rack 1                                      rack 2
                         
That means that the VPR build gets sent 16/16/48, and the 51x build gets sent 16/24/48, right?

So this leads me to thinking the following:

- If i were to run two VPR racks (with the VPR PSU of course), then all of the modules would always have enough power all the time.

- If I were to run two 51x racks, then the overall module composition would have to 50/50 right? That is, 11 VPR modules and 11 51x modules. That means that if I can't find enough 51x modules that I want to put in my rack, then I might not be able to use VPR modules instead, because the 16vac transformer secondary can't do more than 11 modules...right?

I realise I'm assuming that all modules are operating at the limits of the VPR spec / power supply spec, etc..

FWIW, I'm planning for most of my modules to be DIY initially as I'm cheap, so I plan on configuring for 24v as much as I can anyway, so it's not of a huge consequence, I just want to make sure that my understanding of the configuration and it's limitations is correct.

So unless I've really misunderstood something, all this means that I can get the 51x (extra pins) rack and 51x PSU as my initial setup, and have 100% 51x modules in there, or 100% vpr modules there, and any composition in between, because I'm not trying to power a second rack yet. At the point I get a second 51x rack, I would then just have to be careful about how i compose my racks, right?

Apologies for the lengthy post, and sorry if this isn't the best place for this. It seemed the best place due to the PSU aspects, but feel free to move it if it's better placed elsewhere!

Thanks for all your helps guys!

P.S. I just previewed my post and realised it's hard to pick out the questions, so I've highlighted the key ones in light green.

P.S.S. Sorry for all the "right?"s! It's not that bad....right?  ;) ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 18, 2013, 07:24:11 AM
So unless I've really misunderstood something, all this means that I can get the 51x (extra pins) rack and 51x PSU as my initial setup, and have 100% 51x modules in there, or 100% vpr modules there, and any composition in between, because I'm not trying to power a second rack yet. At the point I get a second 51x rack, I would then just have to be careful about how i compose my racks, right?

absolutely right!

however, we do not know the modules. there are some less consuming, some more consuming modules out there.
one day there might be a module taking everything from 16V and 24V.

this is the downside of a modular / open system ...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on August 18, 2013, 09:45:10 AM
That's great, thanks for clarifying that for me [S:A]!

Well, in that case, I imagine I'll be getting the "proper" 51x rack and PSU soon then! ;)

I'll send a mail through to you at [email protected] to order properly.

Oh, and I noticed that you've got a few other things (on your whitemarket listing) I'd quite to order too, so I'll include questions about those things off-thread too.

Thanks!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 03:06:30 AM
Calling it a night for now. But I finished most of my PSU.

I stopped because I'm at the step where I had to power it on. When I did, it popped a few times so I cut it off. Checked to make sure everything was tight connection wise; and powered it back on. It popped maybe 10-12 seconds afterwards. I powered it back off and checked my fuses. None are blown and all my lights came on and nothing is smoking.

So my question is why is my PSU doing that?

I'm wired up for 115v US. I didn't check voltages yet because I'm unsure of putting my hands in there until I get a little feed back on what couble be causing the popping/sparking. It looks and sounds like its coming from the plug/IEC area.

Hope I have provided enough info.
G
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 03:38:14 AM
Hello,

looks like a loose mains connection or so.
What exactly do you mean by popping?
Have you seen a spark in that area?
Does it smell burnt?
May even something visible there?
Anyway,power off,remove the power cable and put it away for now....I mean that,this is dangerous stuff!

Tell us what you see or smell from the inside.
Can you post a good pic from that area?

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on August 22, 2013, 04:13:48 AM
Udo, when I built my PSU you recommended me to measure the outputs (secondaries) from the transformer before hooking up to the PCB, which was a very good and orderly way to go. Seems like a good idea for Toure, not? Also previous posters having problems with the input (primaries) of the xformer has been successful getting help when they posted pics of the primary wiring/IEC plug area.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 04:53:49 AM
Hi Paul,

nice seeing you back here!
Yes,but that should be a next step.
But first Toure should check the mains connections and related parts there to get out of the "danger zone".
A loose wire carrying live ac can seriously be f****ng dangerous.Given the house fuse dosn't work properly it can kill you,not joking!

Hope you're fine,best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on August 22, 2013, 05:38:03 AM
Thx Udo! But I don't know about 'back'… With no projects currently on my desk = a dull and empty life, I'm here all the time! Waiting for a pair of LC53 kits though. And you're right about the procedure of course, as usual. I know that regarding the major f***ups I did with my PSU I shouldn't be giving advice. Did I mention my life is dull and empty? ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 07:32:17 AM
Lots of work with the lovechildren,promised ;D

Chairs,

Udo. ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 11:36:22 AM
Here are the pictures as requested. I took a pic of the power cord too, which is rated for 10A 125V 1250 Watts.

I cut the heat shrink so that I could check all contact points for pitting or burn marks. The connections are solid and the only loose thing I feel is when the IEC moves itself from the little wiggle room it has in the cut out hole but I assume this will happen or is normal given the pressure I am applying to check it.

I see a small gap at the bottom of the case, don't know if that has to do with anything. I also used brown wire for the brown and black connection so expect to see brown on brown instead of black on black for that connection.

I took these on my iphone-5 and I am no means a photographer:
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 11:40:14 AM
Don't know why I can't post pictures inside the actual post like members, it only lets me do attachments and only 1 at a time so there will be another post with 1 picture after this 1....sorry
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
And another....
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 11:48:09 AM
And 1 more...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 12:11:55 PM
O.k.,

someone must chime in now to confirm the mains wiring to be correct.
I'm on holidays and therefore not at home,have only an iPad with me so I can't compare your pics to mine or those in the build manual.
Can you tell us where you've seen the sparkles,and more important:Did any fuse blow?I mean the units's mains fuse and rails fuses as well as the house fuse?
Did or does anything light up?

Hard to trace from here,but first we meed to confirm correct wiring (switch is set to 115vac,right?).

If that is good we must do a transformer check as a next step.

Best,

Udo.

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 12:18:43 PM
No blown fuses, all lights lit up both times I did this, and yes 115Vac...

The sparks initially came from the iec area but I didn't have the panel screwed on tight at first it was loose. I did this because I assumed that I was just checking connections and lights. But when it popped and sparked the first time I shut it off and Tightened all screws and checked connections to IEC and voltage select switch. Then I re-powered it up 10 seconds in it did it again but no sparks this time just a pop....No fuses blown though.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 12:57:35 PM
Rob,

Wait until someone can confirm your mains wiring please.Must be done first,sorry.
After that we should "separate" the mains stuff from the rest of the psu meaning lifting the primaries of the transformer to get the rest of the circuit safe.
It might be a faulty mains switch or the voltage selector.
No fuses blown indicates that no high current was there after the mains fuse,so that is kind of a good sign,given the fuses have all the right values and reaction time.
What you can do meanwhile is double check the right fuses being in the right places.Also while on it double check all the parts on board visually,especially the electrolytic capacitors because what confuses me a bit is that "pop" sound.Is any of them becoming round on top or is one even open etc.,does anything smell burnt...........

Best,

Udo
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 01:07:59 PM
Rob,

Wait until someone can confirm your mains wiring please.Must be done first,sorry.
After that we should "separate" the mains stuff from the rest of the psu meaning lifting the primaries of the transformer to get the rest of the circuit safe.
It might be a faulty mains switch or the voltage selector.
No fuses blown indicates that no high current was there after the mains fuse,so that is kind of a good sign,given the fuses have all the right values and reaction time.
What you can do meanwhile is double check the right fuses being in the right places.Also while on it double check all the parts on board visually,especially the electrolytic capacitors because what confuses me a bit is that "pop" sound.Is any of them becoming round on top or is one even open etc.,does anything smell burnt...........

Best,

Udo

Not sure who ROB is Udo ;-), but If I had to guess it could be a bad IEC or voltage selector switch not sure yet. I am very confident in my soldering and wiring techniques. Nothing smells burnt, all caps and fuses are good upon visual inspection.

How do I perform the transformer check?

How do I check to see if the switches are good?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 03:28:24 PM
Pardon me,I swapped names because I'm in contact with other members trying to help at the same time,mea culpa,hahahaha.......

Transformer checking can be done by looking for their dc resistance at least.
You have to disconnect both sides (all wires) from the trafo and measure the primaries and secondaries with your dmm set to ohms.
Each pair will give you a reading although the values will be quite low,but under no circumstances should you get a zero ohms reading.
Same measuring must be done between secondaries and primaries (guess you have a trafo with two primaries,right-otherwise the voltage selector would not work).
Again there shouldn't be any connection between these pairs.

For the switches just ohm them out,either they have a good contact (reading superclose to zero ohms) or are in open condition (superhigh resitance,dmm will go out of range).
If there's anything in between then you must replace this part.

Sorry for swapping names again,

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 05:23:09 PM
Pardon me,I swapped names because I'm in contact with other members trying to help at the same time,mea culpa,hahahaha.......

Transformer checking can be done by looking for their dc resistance at least.
You have to disconnect both sides (all wires) from the trafo and measure the primaries and secondaries with your dmm set to ohms.
Each pair will give you a reading although the values will be quite low,but under no circumstances should you get a zero ohms reading.
Same measuring must be done between secondaries and primaries (guess you have a trafo with two primaries,right-otherwise the voltage selector would not work).
Again there shouldn't be any connection between these pairs.

For the switches just ohm them out,either they have a good contact (reading superclose to zero ohms) or are in open condition (superhigh resitance,dmm will go out of range).
If there's anything in between then you must replace this part.

Sorry for swapping names again,

Best,

Udo.

Just to clarify Udo,  in order to check the Transformer, remove all transformer leads and connections,  and check for resistance between secondary windings and primary windings?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 10:15:20 PM
Just to clarify Udo,  in order to check the Transformer, remove all transformer leads and connections,  and check for resistance between secondary windings and primary windings?
Yes,the windings themselves,then interconnections between the different windings.
All transformer leads removed so it is really out of circuit.

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 22, 2013, 10:23:35 PM
So I took some measurements and this is what I gotfor the transformer:

Brown and Purple wire Primary is    6.3ohms
Gray and Blue wire Primary is         6.3ohms

Red to Red secondary is                  1ohm
Yellow to Yellow secondary is           .8ohms
Orange to Orange secondary is        1ohm
White to White secondary is            3.4ohms
Green to Green secondary is           .8ohms

When I checked the leads to other leads not in the windings, I got 1Mohm which is what I should get correct? This means they aren't shorted to each other anywhere.

The Switches also seem to be good also. I connected my meter across the contacts and got low ohms and high ohms depending on which position it was in.

My connections are also tight and soldered to the FASTON crimp connectors

I'm thinking the problem is either somewhere else or maybe I can retry putting it back together and see what happens?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 22, 2013, 11:07:57 PM
The readings look correct to me,I compared the wire colours to Jeff's manual some minutes ago.
We have different ones over here in Europe.
All good,pairs match each other,the white/white pair is slightly higher because it is the 48v winding.

I would say give it another try.

When all connections are done plug in the mains at your wall outlet and have the power switch on prior to it.
Please be careful,stand back and see what happens.
Don't want to be responsible to have burnt down your house or you getting hurt or killed!!!

If there's a short in the mains switch or some kind of resistance between the mains contacts your house fuse will blow (given it is working fine of course).

There might have been a residual hair of copper wire from cable stripping,who knows,easy to oversee.

If it still happens then try to locate it again bery carefull,don't tpuch anything!!!

Unplug the mainscord from the wall outlet first then!

Report back please,

good luck,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 23, 2013, 11:37:43 PM
So I'm reporting back with some rather strange news yet again with this PSU of mine. SO I rewired up everything like I mentioned I was going to do Udo, and this time it sparked/popped 1 time from the front of the PSU and not from the back. That confirmed maybe there was a split hair, small fine strand of wire or something caught up in the back upon initial fire up. So I powered it back done took apart the front panel, dusted it clean and the front part of the PSU as well.

Once I fired it back up no sparks or pops but, I lost 48v LED.

This was frustrating because at least when it was sparking here and there I had all 5 LEDs. And on the note of the LEDs they power down slow even after power is completely disconnected I assume thats the caps at work but it takes almost 30 seconds for all the lights to completely die out. Is that normal operation?

Anyways, I decided to check the DC voltages anyway just for the hell of it and of course I got all voltages except 48v. So i commenced to checking the AC voltages with the ground still attached.

I was able to get voltage on both orange terminals but as soon as I put my red lead on the white terminal for 48v it sparked again and low and behold 48v came back????

I am stumped yet again. This tells me the fuses are not blown and something else is wrong but I don't know what?

Nothing is burnt all caps are fine and I reiterate all fuses are in tact....

What now????
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 24, 2013, 02:07:06 AM
Hello,

glad you're still alive ;)
O.k.,leds fading down slowly after powering off is normal since there's no load attached exept of the leds themselves through their resistor.
This will change once modules are connected.

I didn't get what you meant with black and red leads,did you mean the probes?

Anyway,there's something else happening,looks like something is loading down your 48vdc rail.

So what do we have now:
1.A working transformer,you told us the dcr all reading fine,cool because this is the most expensive part.
2.Mains switching and voltage selector seem to work.
3.You have all rails working exept of the +48.

Hard to proceed from here with just my iPad and on vacation in the deepest country.

Did the 48v led come back?

What you can do is further testing by lifting the front wires and look for shorts to sort this out.
And also check the regulators,are they propperly isolated from the chassis.

Running out of ideas here,whished I had my floorbox here to systematic check through the circuit in parallel with you..........

Check also the solder points on the pcb especially in the 48v area.

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 24, 2013, 04:50:00 AM
most common failures:
- not properly isolated regulators
- mixed up LM370 and TL783 (make sure the TL783 is IC1 / 48V)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 24, 2013, 05:54:40 AM
Danke Volker! :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 01:05:01 PM
most common failures:
- not properly isolated regulators
- mixed up LM370 and TL783 (make sure the TL783 is IC1 / 48V)

Is there anyway to take a reading on the regulators to make sure they are good? if so how?
mines are islotaed but i need to check to see i they are in the right place or if i tightened them to hard
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 24, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
You can measure resistance between the metal tab of the TL783 and the heatsink side. This should not be a low value. No need for the power to be on for this, just checking for a direct short.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 24, 2013, 01:25:21 PM
mines are islotaed but i need to check to see i they are in the right place
Only one  TL783 and four LM370 inside,the TL783 must sit in the 48v part of the circuit.

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 02:23:41 PM
You can measure resistance between the metal tab of the TL783 and the heatsink side. This should not be a low value. No need for the power to be on for this, just checking for a direct short.

Yeah Jeff, all my Regulators are in the right place but 2 are shorted to the heat sinks...does this mean the regs are bad or i pierced/tightened the seal pads too hard?

Coukd that be the cause of the behavior ive been experiencing?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 24, 2013, 02:33:27 PM
Both of the 2 negative rails will read a short to the heatsink sides or star ground. This is normal. The 3 positive reg's should not.

Sounds like there is another issue in your 48V circuit somewhere. Dbl check the orientation of the bridge rec for the 48V circuit. You can also post a few good pics of that part of the PCB.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 02:37:19 PM
okay Ill post pics of the bottom of my PCB and the top...why are we only allowed to attack 1 picture to a post? or how do i post multiple pics in a post like chunger does?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 02:50:51 PM
Also to be more specific...

-16V (LM350T) reg is grounded to same heat sink its screwed to
+48v (TL783C) reg is grounded to same heat sink it is screwed to

The other Regs are open or high resistance to the same heat sink they are screwed to
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:35:40 PM
Front of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:36:44 PM
Rear of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:37:51 PM
Top Left of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:38:27 PM
Bottom Left of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:39:15 PM
Top right of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Bottom right of PSU
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:41:00 PM
Top left of Soldering
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:41:44 PM
Bottom left of Soldering
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
Top right of soldering
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:43:00 PM
And finally....Bottom right of soldering
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 03:46:27 PM
I hope the pics are good enough to help me figure out the problem with my PSU. As I said before my fuses are good, none are blown.

I believe all my solder joints are good as well. nothing bridged or cold. Well what is a cold solder joint? I don't believe I have any but I still need to know what it is

Thanks for the help guys
G
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 24, 2013, 04:19:52 PM
+48v (TL783C) reg is grounded to same heat sink it is screwed to
Only the 2 negative reg's should have continuity between their metal tabs and ground. Dbl check this. If the 48V reg does indeed have a very low resistance to the heatsink side, remove the screw and very slightly bend it physically away from the heatsink and try firing it up again.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on August 24, 2013, 04:46:37 PM
 It's not hard to over torge the regulator heat sink screws and see the insulator curl ,
better to use some silicon grease and know you have good conduction .
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 24, 2013, 06:30:13 PM
It's not hard to over torge the regulator heat sink screws and see the insulator curl ,
better to use some silicon grease and know you have good conduction .

So if my seal pads are ripped or bad I can use silicone grease as a replacement?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 25, 2013, 01:35:57 AM
Or just replace it don't overtight them,hahaha.....seriously,it's easy to damage them,I did that on my very first build too,but I always measure if there's continiuity to chassis after assembly.
There are also ceramic pads existing which are a bit more rugged.
Also look at the plastic isolating washer for damages.
Cleaning the backside of the reg as well as their mounting place is a good idea too.

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on August 26, 2013, 06:14:07 AM
Can anyone confirm that using the LM350T in a negative-voltage configuration like this is really kosher?

I'm trying to wrap my head around TWO 51x-supplies who both killed their -16V supplies (preamp Lola, running of +/-16V lines, she herself seemed to survive) while patching them in/out by patchbay.

What I'm asking is - can we really rely on the LM350T fail-safe and protection circuits, when it's configured like this? I haven't seen it used like this in data sheets.

Been looking at internal IC schematic, but it's quite hard to "reverse" working voltage polarity while analyzing.

Jakob E.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on August 26, 2013, 09:34:18 AM
 No , the grease does not replace the insulator , I meant using it may help you not feel the need
to over tighten it .
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 26, 2013, 11:43:05 AM
I am not sure what inspired Volker's original design/layout but Doug Self has a couple of similar versions published.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 26, 2013, 09:11:02 PM
So I removed the seal pads and hardware as Jeff suggested, then bent each positive Regulator forward and fired my PSU back up. Everything worked smooth...I got the lights and all the voltages and most importantly no pops and sparks...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 26, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
This is a picture of what my old seal pads and plastic washers look like overtightened....
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 26, 2013, 09:17:11 PM
And 1 more shot of the over tightened hardware...learn from my mistakes people....

OOOOooooo Jeeeffff....I need some new seal pads and plastic tab things for my regulators please  ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 26, 2013, 11:20:39 PM
Yes,you broke them all I'd say.
Learning by doing,hahaha.......but hey,that's most likely the solution to your issues!
Think we were on a wrong track first when you told us about sparks and pops seeming to come from the mains area.
So heads up,it will work pretty soon I bet!

Best regards,thanks for the pics,very helpfull for others(!),

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on August 27, 2013, 10:55:06 AM
Toure14, host your pictures on a site like PhotoBucket or TorrentPic and paste the BB/Forum links that are autogenerated in your post.  that's how you get multiple pics in one reply.   
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on August 30, 2013, 03:46:06 AM
Can anyone confirm that using the LM350T in a negative-voltage configuration like this is really kosher?

Sum-up of the incident.

Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU, powering 51x rack containing only two Lola's. All newly built, tested to be ok.

On patching at patchbay (which may or may not have a bit of voltage potential, non-grounded computer PSU) - the -16V regulation on PSU blew, taking -16V fuse with it. Lola survived fine.

Another - also new and fresh - 51x rack + Floor Box PSU was tried, Lola's moved over in it. Worked nicely until changing patch, which killed it instantly - again the -16V regulator. Again, Lola survived the mishap.

Which made me wonder if the Floor Box PSU is adequately protected from reverse voltages, as the used LM350's are VERY hard to kill with anything else.

We changed the -16V LM350, and mounted reverse-voltage protection diodes:

2pcs 1N4007 - soldered at underside of PCB, at the power-output screw terminals. You could probably also simply screw them into the terminals together with the output power cables:

- One goes from -16V to 0V (arrow/stripe pointing towards ground/0V)
- The other goes from 0V to +16V (arrow/stripe pointing towards +16V)

The reverse protection diodes work by preventing the -16V from going above +0.6V and preventing the +16V from going below -0.6V

At re-installation in the exact same setup that killed the psu's earlier - and working hard to provoke the error - we could not recreate the fault.

In conclusion - it may be a good idea to include the reverse protection diodes.

Jakob E.

PS: Very nice project btw: I never looked closer at this before, amazed about the high quality standards..

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Toure14 on August 30, 2013, 03:52:07 AM
Can anyone confirm that using the LM350T in a negative-voltage configuration like this is really kosher?

Sum-up of the incident.

Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU, powering 51x rack containing only two Lola's. All newly built, tested to be ok.

On patching at patchbay (which may or may not have a bit of voltage potential, non-grounded computer PSU) - the -16V regulation on PSU blew, taking -16V fuse with it.

Another - also new and fresh - 51x rack + Floor Box PSU was tried, Lola's moved over in it. Worked nicely until changing patch, which killed it instantly - again the -16V regulator.

Which made me wonder if the Floor Box PSU is adequately protected from reverse voltages, as the used LM350's are VERY hard to kill with anything else.

We changed the -16V LM350, and mounted reverse-voltage protection diodes:

2pcs 1N4007 - soldered at underside of PCB, at the power-output screw terminals. You could probably also simply screw them into the terminals together with the output power cables:

- One goes from -16V to 0V (arrow/stripe pointing towards ground/0V)
- The other goes from 0V to +16V (arrow/stripe pointing towards +16V)

The reverse protection diodes work by preventing the -16V from going above +0.6V and preventing the +16V from going below -0.6V

At re-installation in the exact same setup that killed the psu's earlier - and working hard to provoke the error - we could not recreate the fault.

In conclusion - it may be a good idea to include the reverse protection diodes.

Jakob E.

PS: Very nice project btw: I never looked closer at this before, amazed about the high quality standards..

Would you mind posting a pic of what you did/added?

I plan to run 2 Lolas as well with a host of other projects Im building through a pathcbay and hopefully I can kill this problem before it starts.

Thanks
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on August 30, 2013, 04:00:20 AM
Aah - I suppose I wasn't clear: The Lola's survived fine - and are obviously well-protected, only the PSU died (edited above post). I'm not suspecting that the Lola's had any influence on the error, other than being the only units we had at hand.

Suggested mod is on the PSU, not the Lola.

If possible (the units are now in 24/7 use), I'll get the owners to post a pic (although it should be simple enough from above description)

Jakob E.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on August 30, 2013, 08:26:04 AM
On a side note:

The psu schematic specifies 1.5A Fast-blow fuses for the output side of the regulated voltages.

I wonder if this can get problematic when powering up racks with multiple units that all has local supply decoupling too..?

Does anyone know the rationale for using fast-blows here?

And do we need fuses at all in this place (yes, for the 48V we do, but besides that) - the regulators are very good themselves at taking action when overload occurs..

...All questions from a novice 51x'er...

Jakob E.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on August 30, 2013, 09:10:48 AM
Hi Jakob,

while I do not really understand the blown fuse(s) with the Lolas only, thanks for the Diode protection fix.
however, I never heard of this problem before (and I'm sure there must be more Lolas out there in GDIY511 Racks and PSUs).

For the fuses, we have seen many pictures of fully loaded Racks, but no feedback / complains regarding blown fuses or other PSU problems.
(we are talking about 500+ Racks with PSUs, some PSUs driving two Racks).

Can't remember each detail, but all features / specs have been discussed here in the Lab before I did the final schematic.
So, I do not have rationale reasons for all features / specs.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on August 30, 2013, 10:48:57 AM
No issues here,even when driving two fully loaded 51x racks (properly sharing the 16 & 24vdc rails) from a single floorbox in a live situation.

@Volker,

I thought it was the negative voltage regs blowing and their fuses.

@Jakob,

thanks for the pointer.
But my question is still what's happening.Do you have any digital or controler stuff like MIDI,AES/EBU  etc. in your patchbay?

Just curious since short circuit diodes are implemented already.So the reverse voltage must come from somewhere......

Best regards,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on September 03, 2013, 02:18:56 AM
Getting closer - there IS something in the Lola, as only one of them provokes the error.

Which means that there's little to no reason to believe it's a generic 51X-PSU problem - sorry about getting you worried about this

Will report back when I've had the time to check in-depth.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 03, 2013, 03:28:31 AM
Thanks a lot for sharing Jakob,that's very interesting!
Curious how this works out indeed.

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 04, 2013, 04:27:08 PM
Having a little trouble... any help is greatly appreciated.

Finished the build this morning, everything looks good..... except, I'm getting about half the voltage at the 48V rail (23.85V to be exact). Triple checked everything and it all looks good:
-used the correct TL783 regulator here
-am getting 54V AC off the torroid at the connector
-do not have continuity between the regulator and the case
-the correct resistors are in the correct places (150r and 5k11 are in R1 and R2 respectively)
-my rectifier bridge is oriented correctly
-all my solder joints look good...

I'm thinking it's either a bad regulator or bridge but just wanted to run it by you guys in case you had any other thoughts.

Thanks in advance, Greg
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 04, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
Hi Greg,

what's the dc voltage on the bridge rectifier positive out with reference to 0v?
Would check this point first to see if the rectifier is working correct.

Does the regulator TL783 change the voltage when adjusting the pot?

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 04, 2013, 05:11:55 PM
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 04, 2013, 05:29:41 PM
Can you post a quick pic of the 48V rec portion of the PCB?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 04, 2013, 06:02:25 PM
pic1
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 04, 2013, 06:03:07 PM
pic2
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 04, 2013, 06:04:04 PM
pic3
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 04, 2013, 11:47:42 PM
  • 24.95V on the positive side of the rectifier.
Could be the rectifier (unlikely).Check orientation and for cold solder joints in this area.
Also what makes me wonder is that the ac from the secondary reads 54vac "....on the connector".
So that means in circuit,right?
If so then there is on open condition somewhere,the secondary should drop down to roughly 48vac when loaded.

Best,

Udo.[/list]
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 05, 2013, 08:11:21 AM
I checked, double checked, and triple checked all of my solder joints in the 48v section. I've ordered another rectifier and a regulator. Going to swap them out...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 05, 2013, 09:32:40 AM
It's unlikely that they are bad from the get go but anything is possible though. If you are gonna change them, just do one thing at a time to see exactly what the issue is.

BTW, did you check ACV at the entry of BR1? It should be the same as at the toroid terminals but best to be sure.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 05, 2013, 11:10:52 AM
I haven't checked, but I will tonight.

I'm going to start with the rectifier as it seems too much of a coincidence that my voltage is essentially exactly half of what it should be... Although, I'm not crazy about taking the case apart, putting it all back together, and then potentially having to do it all over again if it's not the rectifier... But I figure it's the least I can do for you.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 05, 2013, 11:32:54 AM
You only need to remove the back & bottom. Leave the PCB, front and sides together. I would still be surprised if the rec is bad.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 05, 2013, 04:50:56 PM
SO, I just probed both legs of C7 and C6 (not the ones connected to ground and I'm seeing 19.3V AC... why would that be?

.....and then as I was pulling my probe out (slowly) I shorted one end of F2 blowing that fuse and causing something else to POP somewhere in the -V2 circuit... fun.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 07, 2013, 05:53:32 PM
Hi peeps!

So I've finally got around to building my 51x PSU, and I (think) it's mostly gone OK! (phew!)

I'm now at the pre-toroid wiring stage, and there's a discrepancy between my IEC socket and the other European ones on this thread...mine doesn't have a pin for the main earth, while the other Europeans in this thread seem to have one. See attached photo.

Surely this is bad? (FYI, I got my kit from Volker, so I've got no reason to think it's wrong unless it's a component error!)

Isn't this (non-existent) pin supposed to be connected to the star ground?

Thanks for the help guys!

Kaz
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 07, 2013, 06:06:03 PM
Hello Kaz,

I've got mine from Volker too,but your's looks wrong.
Safety earth is imperative here!
You should contact him,I'm sure he will help you.

Best regards,

Udo.

Edit:Looks like the earth pin is missing,seems to be a component error.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 07, 2013, 06:31:52 PM
DON'T USE IT WITH(OUT) THIS MISSING PIN !!!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 07, 2013, 06:53:44 PM
DON'T USE IT WITH(OUT) THIS MISSING PIN !!!

Don't worry I wasn't going to!

I'm not experienced enough to know about the voodoo & tricks that you experienced guys use in your circuits, which is why I checked...but even with my rather limited knowledge, it seemed like a good way to electrocute myself...  ;)

For others reading this...if in doubt ask!

Volker, I'll email you about this off thread so as not to pollute the discussion...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 08, 2013, 03:25:50 AM
nah, this is no voodoo trick, it is just basic safety!
replied to your mail, will post you a replacement today.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 08, 2013, 08:09:38 AM
Thanks Volker.

Oh, and thanks for confirming my suspicions too Udo! You guys are so helpful.

Right, so in a bid to eliminate uncertainty for other EU builders and to keep things rolling in general, here's a pic of my build as it stands. Obviously some things are missing as I'm not finished yet, but there are a couple of things to note if you're are building using Jeff's guide, but using the EU kit from Volker.

- The EU toroid comes with a glued on insulator underneath it, so there's no separate cloth insulator supplied like in Jeff's guide.
- The EU toroid only needs to be secured with one of the combo nut-washer things.

Also, when I strip wires I tend to use side cutters as my wire strippers are a bit inaccurate for that and most of the time that's fine. However, once you cut the toroid wires to the right length, things get a bit more critical as you don't want to end up having to cut off much more if you accidentally snag one of the strands of wire, so I stripped my secondary wires using a spare tip on my soldering iron to burn the cable insulation off instead. I guess it's probably a little more toxic, so make sure your room is well ventilated, but it's nice not to have to worry about removing some strands accidentally (just to be clear, you only need to burn a single ring around the wire to make the cut and then pull the disconnected insulation off like normal).

And finally to admit to a minor build error, and assure others that it's ok to stay calm and fix things:

A few nights ago when it was late and I was probably a bit tired and on auto-pilot, I accidentally soldered the molex connectors for the secondaries backwards, so that the holes for the wires were facing in towards the centre of the pcb! Hah! If that happens, don't panic. Each connector (pair of contacts) can be removed individually which makes it a bit easier.

A bit of patience, a bit of heat, a light touch with some pliers to ease them away from the board far enough to get some tweezers inbetween the board and the bottom of the connector so that they can be used as a lever while applying heat to the pins in multiple passes moving each pin around a millimetre at a time gets the job done. I think the entire housing for a molex can actually be pulled off first so that each pin can be done one at a time if you want to make it even easier, but I found my initial approach fairly straightforward and the connectors were left in perfect condition!

Anyway, there you go, hope that helps the other newbie builders like me!

;-)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Max002 on September 08, 2013, 10:38:03 AM
Hi everyone! First post on Group Diy woohoo!  ;D

I received the 51x rack + PSU last week and started the build yesterday. So far everything is flawless. (hope the attached pic will post correctly)

I am at the step where to put the regulators in but it does not mention anything about putting heatsink compound on the mica... Have you guys put any? The mica are good enough on their own to transfer the heat?

Thank you!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 08, 2013, 01:15:10 PM
Hi everyone! First post on Group Diy woohoo!  ;D

I received the 51x rack + PSU last week and started the build yesterday. So far everything is flawless. (hope the attached pic will post correctly)

I am at the step where to put the regulators in but it does not mention anything about putting heatsink compound on the mica... Have you guys put any? The mica are good enough on their own to transfer the heat?

Thank you!

Hi Max002!

I'm new to this myself, so probably not the best to comment, but I didn't put any heatsink compound on anything and I can't say that I've seen any mention of it in the guide or anywhere else if that helps!

Kaz
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 08, 2013, 01:26:28 PM
Nothing else but the pads under the regulators needed.

Happy building and welcome,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 12, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
My 48V is fixed... my -16 V#2 is still down though.

When I shorted it, I definitely popped the regulator, so I replaced:
-the LM350 regulator,
-the 1k trimmer,
-C8 .1uf Wima
-C9 big boy.

Still doesnt work. My next thought is to replace the diodes and resistors R3 and R4 as that was the area that had the smoke. Is there something else that is likely to have popped?

Thank you,
Greg
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 13, 2013, 12:15:52 PM
and I'm 100% in business now!!!  :o
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 13, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
What was the issue Greg? Maybe it'll help someone in the future.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: GregNey on September 13, 2013, 12:46:42 PM
I'm not exactly sure on the 48V... I swapped out the regulator and redid the insulating... Also, I reheated every solder joint in the path.

When I popped the F2 fuse and lost my -V2 rail, I replaced the following things in the following order:

First round: LM350 regulator (definitely blown), 1k trim (probably blown), C8 (def blown), C9 (wasn't sure)... Didnt work.
Second round: diodes and R3+R4... I think this was probably unnecessary... Didn't work
Third round: electrolytics C11 and C12. WORKED

Now, to test the 22 slots I just finished building!  ;D ;D

Edit... all 22 slots test perfect! While I was at it, I fixed an Old School Audio power supply (I know.... cringe)... Simple swap out of the LM723 so I am in +/-16V heaven...

AND I've got the electrical inspector coming this week to review the 6, 20A circuits that we brought out into the old barn that I've been converting to a studio for the past year+. I'm VERY close. Needless to say, I'm very excited!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 17, 2013, 06:40:50 PM
Just wanted to come back here and let everyone know that Volker was a true gent and sorted me out with a new IEC socket which arrived over the weekend. I've just got around to installing it and my first power up and everything seems to be working great!

I trimmed the voltages to 48.5, -24.7, 24.7, -16.7, 16.7 as mentioned in Jeff's guide. Took a while as I didn't have a plastic tool to use to do the trimming, so I had to power down between tweaks and wait for the capacitors to discharge, but even using that approach, only took about four iterations total to get right, so not particularly laborious! (keep an eye on those 24v leds, as the associated capacitors take a long time to discharge). Just need to get around to hooking up the output cabling now, but that's a job for another day.

The fact that a simple mind like mine was able to get it going so easily, is a testament to the awesome detail on this thread, so thanks guys!

Thanks Volker for getting that replacement part to me so quickly, and with extra gummi bears too! ;)

Kaz
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: toolboxmuziq on September 18, 2013, 06:33:04 PM
can anyone tell me why my -v#2 section smokes and the led flickers when i power on my psu for initial testing and the led4 +16 wont light up at all? i checked all the solder joints. Has anyone experienced this problem or know a viable solution?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 19, 2013, 05:28:16 AM
Hi toolboxmuziq,

I'm not experienced enough with the build to really say, but the thing that immediately comes to mind is that there are five regulators attached to the sides of the case. They all look the same, but one of them is different, which is something that I know I almost missed myself when assembling it. Might be worth checking...

Kaz
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: toolboxmuziq on September 19, 2013, 06:56:29 PM
thanks kaz. I'm about to check that now. I'm almost sure that's at least one of my problems. Any one else?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on September 19, 2013, 08:26:48 PM
Yeah , be sure they aren't over tightened , have the insulators and not making contact with ground , I believe the build
instructions tells how to check for that
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: toolboxmuziq on September 20, 2013, 01:19:34 AM
I think I've blown the regulator for -v#2 so I'll have to order and replace it. After removing and replacing the regulator at +16 I still am not get getting anything. I've tested at the place where the cord should be installed but I get no reading. Someone please help.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 20, 2013, 09:29:15 AM
Blown fuse? Probe on both ends of the fuse holder(s).
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: toolboxmuziq on September 21, 2013, 01:58:23 PM
Blown fuse? Probe on both ends of the fuse holder(s).
I checked both ends and I get nothing from either! Can anyone suggest the next step?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on September 23, 2013, 02:12:56 AM
Blown fuse? Probe on both ends of the fuse holder(s).
I checked both ends and I get nothing from either! Can anyone suggest the next step?

Again, I'm no expert, but I would do the following:

1. Make sure the PSU is unplugged to avoid accidentally causing more issues with accidental shorts.
2. Use your continuity tester.
3. Look at the schematics posted in the second post of this thread.
4. Notice that a lack of continuity between the outputs at the molex connectors and the fuse holders is pretty much impossible!

Like I said I'm not an expert and I was probably fairly lucky with my build, but if I was in a similar situation to you, I would keep one probe on the output terminal, and move the other upstream a component at a time by looking at the schematic and confirming continuity. A better approach would be to move both probes upstream a component at a time while maintaining the offset, so that you're probing between the output leg of the upstream component and the input leg of the downstream component. That would confirm that your circuit is connected, but wouldn't rule out component failures. Only when I'd confirmed continuity and checked every part against the schematic would I try switching it on again, but that's just me.

Would this be the right approach? I don't know...I'm a software guy, but that's where I would start. For larger circuits I would modify that approach to sub-circuits (testing for expected voltages), and use a binary search technique, but I don't think this circuit is complicated enough to warrant that...

Kaz

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: toolboxmuziq on September 23, 2013, 11:27:43 AM
Can someone tell me what should be the appropriate readings coming directly from the gdiy 51x toroidal transformer and the screw terminals. I have traced and confirmed that I do have a power flow but it's only reading .300 at the +16 terminal and throughout the +16 section.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on September 23, 2013, 12:25:19 PM
Hello,

did you measure directly at the wires/screwterminal that is coming from the torroidial transformer,so meaning the secondaries?
You must set your dmm to ac voltage,earliest stage for dc readings is after the rectifier!

Let us know,

best regards,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on September 25, 2013, 10:07:31 AM
Folks, i'd like to bring to your attention something.     Commercial racks do not allow for over-clocking the PSU, and as such commercial modules may or may not have protection diodes, which you need the extra 0.7V.     As such, if you're running commercial modules, it's smarter to run your PSUs right at +/- 16V than at +/-16.7V.   Commercial modules will work fine when underpowered (15.3V if they have protection diodes), but it's unknown how they'll respond when overpowered.    Radial, API, Purple boxes: you can't overclock their PSUs.  If you use any commercial modules in your rack, they're expecting at most +/-16.1V.   A commercial developer told me this.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 26, 2013, 11:36:31 AM
Interesting thoughts Chuck. I have not personally seen all available modules for the 500 series format. I am surprised that manufacturers/designers would not include protection diodes. I know for a fact that API has them in every module they produce. APSI also has them. I don't recall seeing any kits around here without them but I have never looked specifically just for that either. My guess would be that most commercial 500 series products have them.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on October 02, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
Hey guys...

As someone who has recently built one of these PSUs, and previously posted about having successfully biased the voltages as specified in Jeff's guide, I feel like I want to come back and contribute something, now that I've had time to live with it a little bit.

FWIW, I'm a DIY newbie and new to 500 series too, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt!

I've got a couple of pre-amps (two of the same running off the 16v rails) and a couple of compressors (different, one running off 24v rails, one running off 16v rails) running in my rack from the usual sources, and during the setup and config of one of the modules, the numbers I was getting out of the probes weren't matching the expected numbers mentioned in the setup guide itself. While not detrimental so far, I went ahead and queried the creator of the module on their stance regarding voltages. I won't say who I asked to avoid putting words in their mouth, but it is clear that their modules expect something closer to the standard +/-16v of the rails rather than the +/-16.7v I've currently got them biased to.

Having given this some thought, I think it's fair to say that a specification is only useful if it is adhered to, and Jeff's build document clearly shows the voltages on the rails as specified as +/-16v, +/-24v, and 48v in the two (500/51x) connector pinout specification diagrams.

It is incorrect to make assumptions about what is happening on each individual module after that, as any module designer, whether commercial or not, has to work assuming the spec is being adhered to and with that, is free to make trade-offs as they see fit to produce a useful product. One such trade-off might be having protection diodes if the full +/-16v isn't required, or might be omitting them if they need every little last volt available to them.

So, someone who works to the spec, but decides to use protection diodes, must surely be doing the following calc when designing the rest of the circuit:

16.0 - 0.7 = 15.3

That means that 15.3 is what they built the rest of their circuit to work with. Giving them the extra 0.7v to work with doesn't do them any favours if they aren't expecting it, and actually might decrease the lifetime of some components if they are operating near their limits.

If on the other hand the designer omits the protection diodes because they want the full +/-16v to be available to them, then still, that +/-16v is what they're expecting to drive the rest of their circuit, not +/-16.7v.

Logically, the only people designing their modules to handle the extra 0.7v gracefully are the people designing just for 51x racks and with specific knowledge of the biasing that is de-facto standard, but as soon as they do that, then they're not actually working within the api500 spec as non 51x racks don't have the ability to drive the +/-16v rails at higher voltages.

Of course, I can't comment on what the other rails should really be, but my instinct is that any implementation of a specification must match the specification as closely as is reasonable possible.

It would be nice if the various alliance members could come forward and put forth their final word on this, as I'm just working off my own sense of logic here, but I'm now starting to think that it's right that we try to trim our PSUs to hit the specifications as closely as possible. I plan to do this myself when I get a moment, and intend to to be within +0.1 of the target voltages.

Anyway, it would be great if anyone else with an opinion on this stuff could chime in, and also anyone who has a commercial 500 series rack, as it would be nice to find out a little bit more about the range of voltages that are being typically supplied.

Oh, and I just want to say sorry and apologies if this comes across a little harsh or ungrateful. That's not the case, I really appreciate all of the hard work that everyone has put in to making this stuff available for all of us average joes who wouldn't be able to do it by themselves! ;)

Just trying to get to the bottom of this, and think this issue needs a little clarity...

Kaz

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 02, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
Most times it doesn't matter, pointless to discuss.

We are talking about analog audio circuits ...

If there is any exact voltage reference needed, it is (or should be) in the circuit.

So it shouldn't matter if you have 15, 16 or 17 volts.
Most OpAmps are rated up to 18V.
PRR would mention the +/-10% mains voltage etc.

If a module doesn't work within those variations, it is a bad design.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on October 02, 2013, 01:09:03 PM

...

If there is any exact voltage reference needed, it is (or should be) in the circuit.

...


Hi Volker, thanks for chiming in!

So I think what you're saying there is that it would be bad practice to use the voltage on the rack rails as an input where an exact voltage is required, even if theoretically it was the exact voltage you needed? (let's say an imaginary digital component that required 16v...speaking completely hypothetically here)

Is there some reason why that's bad practice? Is it because all of the other modules in the rack mean there are more unknowns that can't be accounted for anyway, so some kind of tolerance has to be built in to a module in the first place? Or is it because there are too many different rack implementations with the associated variances to be able to blindly rely on it being accurate?

I'm only a software guy, so not trying to be a dick, just trying to understand the issues (one day I hope to be able to contribute with more than just questions!). ;)

Oh, and regarding the +/- 10% mains voltage...shouldn't that be a non-issue because of your lovely psu pcb? Surely that +/- 10% mains voltage variation never impacts on the voltages that reach the rails, except during brown-outs? (otherwise, you know, what's the point of those regulators and capacitors?)

Thanks for your patience!  :D

Kaz

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 02, 2013, 01:29:36 PM
What I'm saying is it doesn't (shouldn't) matter if you have 15 or 17V.
If it does it is a problem in the module.

Regarding the PSU PCB we sell: it is not digital ;-)
It is a percentage from the incoming voltage.

So, in Germany where we should have 230V Mains, once the "Tagesschau" begins, it will be lower.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 02, 2013, 02:02:50 PM
So, in Germany where we should have 230V Mains, once the "Tagesschau" begins, it will be lower.
Oktoberfest-time here in Munich,so maybe even lower ;D

Cheers,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on October 02, 2013, 02:24:16 PM
Regarding the PSU PCB we sell: it is not digital ;-)
It is a percentage from the incoming voltage.
Ok, so I think this is the important bit for me. It certainly spells out the need for being resilient to < 16v voltages. I need to read up on those regulators to understand how > 16v can happen (transiently) though. I was under the impression that those voltage regulators impose upper limits quite well.

So, in Germany where we should have 230V Mains, once the "Tagesschau" begins, it will be lower.

I had to google "Tagesschau" to understand that one... ;) For everyone else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagesschau_(Germany)...

Kaz
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on October 02, 2013, 05:31:01 PM
Kaz, all fine.

set it to somewhere between 16V and 16.7V and you are done.
nothing magic in here, and the discussion is as useful like splitting hair.

the regulators will keep the adjusted voltage, even with the Tagesschau and Oktoberfest!
(I'm NOT a fan of the last one. Lived too many years next to it)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 02, 2013, 11:38:12 PM
the regulators will keep the adjusted voltage, even with the Tagesschau and Oktoberfest!
(I'm NOT a fan of the last one. Lived too many years next to it)
Same here,don´t like it....but it´s still a heavy current-sucker ;D

Greetings,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: taliska on October 03, 2013, 04:58:33 AM
Thanks for the discussion guys, it's certainly helped me think about the various issues.

set it to somewhere between 16V and 16.7V and you are done.

That's the plan, though I'm not in a rush to change anything particularly, as I don't feel like opening up the PSU right now... (will probably get around to it sometime next week).

In other news...got a mouser shipment arriving today, 2xEQ to finish off and 2xpreamps to start and finish! Yay!

Suppose I'd better get back to my day job...luckily my boss (me) hasn't noticed that I'm not working on my game right now... ;)

Kaz

Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: tomas1808 on October 05, 2013, 07:05:26 PM
Hi,

I am planning on using the 51x Floor box as a universal PSU for my racks. Each rack will have its own "universal" cable going to the PSU.  Here are a few questions:

1] Can I wire both 24V secondaries in parallel to get the extra current on the +24V rail? I dont need the -24V rail. Do I need to upgrade any component to handle the extra current?

2] I would like to use 5pin XLRs because 6-Pin connectors are too expensive for me. I would have to rely on the body of the XLRs for the chassis ground. Is this a bad idea?

Maybe this helps:

(http://i.imgur.com/EoGBA0ql.png)

Thanks!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: gyraf on October 06, 2013, 01:07:50 AM
Don't rely on the XLR housing for contact - you can't be sure this gets connected.

ONLY the pins count as connections.

Jakob E.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: manglaren on October 11, 2013, 10:59:13 AM
Hello,

have finished my floorbox today.
Did it for the "smaller jobs"( some of you might know that I´ve built a dual version before).
A breeze to build,very relaxing,high quality as always.

You "51x-Alliance-Trio"-Guys rock!

One issue:I have a left-over green LED-must I put it in the white market ;D?

O.K.,let´s get serious.
Thought I should share this:Some of us german or european builders seem to have slight difficulties with the transformer wires and their colours,which one goes where etc..
I made a little pic using the transformer description on the classic api site as a template (mea culpa Jeff!) and modified it to german colour coding.You´ll find the pdf at the end of this post.
I´m not sure if this is the same trafo Cemal sells,I got mine from Volker.Maybe someone can chime in here?

Here are some pics in detail I took from my build:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img411/1764/mainswiringgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/mainswiringgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img252/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

Thanks for watching,hope to have helped,

Udo ;)


I built my psu box and wired it accordingly to this post. When i power it up my main fuse blows straight away. What gets me a bit confused is that on the transformer there's two pairs of primary wires, both white/yellow that goes to the ac selector.
Any thoughts?
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7552/0hmk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/0hmk.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 11, 2013, 12:01:33 PM
Is the mains voltage select switch on 230V?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: manglaren on October 11, 2013, 12:19:31 PM
Yes, it is.
I noticed in a pic from another forum member, that he soldered the wires from the primary pairs "diagonally" on the selector, not in "line" like i did.
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6133/5phv.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/5phv.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Could that be the problem?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: manglaren on October 12, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
ok, i solved the problem, wrong wiring of the primary wires. everything is functioning as it should. thumbs up!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 12, 2013, 11:48:06 PM
ok, i solved the problem, wrong wiring of the primary wires. everything is functioning as it should. thumbs up!
Hello,

glad you got it solved.
Sadly my notifications didn't work for a while,sorry.

From your picture I guess ypu use the rondo-mueller transformer from Volker,right?
If so then yes,since the primary pairs have the same colour coding one might swap the leads from the first and second primary.A look at the schematics helps.In general the switch connects the both primaries in series when in 230vac mode while it parallels them for 115vac use with respect to their starts and ends of winding.

Was that the issue?
Please tell us so others get this information too.
It's also a bit easier for others when you change your profile stating your location.

Have fun,

best regards,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: manglaren on October 13, 2013, 02:57:59 AM
ok, i solved the problem, wrong wiring of the primary wires. everything is functioning as it should. thumbs up!
Hello,

glad you got it solved.
Sadly my notifications didn't work for a while,sorry.

From your picture I guess ypu use the rondo-mueller transformer from Volker,right?
If so then yes,since the primary pairs have the same colour coding one might swap the leads from the first and second primary.A look at the schematics helps.In general the switch connects the both primaries in series when in 230vac mode while it parallels them for 115vac use with respect to their starts and ends of winding.

Was that the issue?
Please tell us so others get this information too.
It's also a bit easier for others when you change your profile stating your location.

Have fun,

best regards,

Udo.

Thanks. Yes, it's the volker trans, and the problem you stated was the issue.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 13, 2013, 04:22:12 AM
Great,

thanks for sharing,have a nice sunday,best,

Udo ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mulletchuck on October 16, 2013, 03:32:49 PM
This post isn't directly about the floor box psu, but more about the whole 51x PSU.     

Folks, before you decide which version you're going to buy (VPR or 51x) Take an inventory of whichever modules you currently have or will want in the future.  If none of your (intended) modules use the 24V rail, DON'T BUY THE 51X version.   Buy the VPR version.   

about 2 years ago, I built two of the 51x Rack PSUs and 2 chassis.    I should've been able to power 2 chassis from each PSU, right?    WRONG.   The back panel is only drilled for one XLR, which connected to ONE rack.   It's a design flaw. the way they sell the chassis such that you're not getting what is being advertised.  "11 slots @16V and 11 slots @24V"  Well, sure that would be true if a) the case were drilled to allow two cables to connect and b) you didn't run both sets of rails over a single cable  ::)  derp derp!!!   Lesson Learned. 

About a week ago, I ordered the VPR Toroid from jeff and replaced the 51x Toroid in one PSU, and drilled a 2nd XLR jack into the rear panel.  I wired up each XLR so that only 5 pins were being used instead of 7.  Chassis 1 got the original +/-16V rails on pins 3&4 of the cable.   Chassis 2 got the old +/-24V rails now running at +/-16V on pins 3&4 of their *separate* cable, instead of 6&7.   Voila!   Two chassis powered by a single PSU and a SINGLE TOROID.   

So, before you click the "buy" button on the GDIY 51X version of this PSU, Make a list of which modules you have or will want.  If none of them will (or need) to use the 24V rail, DON'T BUY IT.   Buy the VPR version, and be able to run TWO chassis from one PSU/Toroid.   

I now have a spare PSU that I can power a 3rd chassis with for my 4 modules that use the 24V rail (G9 51x, F76).   All of my other modules in the two chassis can live happily ever after, being powered by the single PSU and without fear of being fried by that 24V rail if they get inserted incorrectly :-)   And actually, if I wanted to, I could drill out the back of this other PSU and wire it up for 2 XLR-5's.   Then i'd ACTUALLY have a PSU that would power a chassis of 11 modules @16V and a 2nd chassis of 11 modules @ 24V!!!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kato on November 04, 2013, 09:21:39 AM
Hi friends, I have an unusual problem with my 51x PSU, and I hope you can lend some insight.

I built it many months ago. Last night I switched it on to test the voltages and ALL the voltages are way too high.

My 24v rail was up around 33v. My 48v was at 65v, etc.
Naturally I adjusted the trimmers anti-clockwise and watched the voltage drop on my meter, but eventually it bottoms out without getting down to the correct voltage.

With all rails trimmed as low as they can go, this is what I'm stuck at:

16v rails:  +18.6v, and -18.4v
24v rails:  +29.3v  and -28.8
phantom:    60.6

Measuring at the rack chassis, unloaded.

Details:
I'm using the version 1 PSU board (not floor box), and the toroid from CAPI.

I remember checking all the voltages at each fuse and being happy that everything was OK. I would guess I probably trimmed the voltages to the correct values at the time, but I have no specific memory of doing that.

I later went back and added a separate circuit to power a fan, power LEDs, and a temperature sensor to kick on the fan at high temperatures.  This separate board uses its own small EI 12v power transformer and fuse which is not connected to the 51x psu other than sharing a chassis ground. (It's otherwise floating.)

Could this somehow be causing the higher voltages?

My other possible theories are:

  •  are my DMM batteries getting low? (it was 2:30am when I was doing this, not thinking of the obvious things.)

any thoughts would be appreciated,   Matthew
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 04, 2013, 09:36:35 AM
Hi Matthew,

yes,checking your dmm first might be a good idea.
It's unlikely that all rails have issues at the same time.
Also the house voltage shouldn't influence the dc rails,you're measuring after the regulators,right?

Best,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 04, 2013, 09:52:13 AM
I just left a friend/customers studio in Nashville. His assistant built a PSU that was having issues with high DC voltage that would not trim down. This was only on one rail though not all 5. Turns out that none of the regulators were ever soldered in at all. He had looked at the build numerous times and never noticed. Sometimes the mind will over look the glaring obvious.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kato on November 04, 2013, 10:27:27 AM
HA!  :D  I am just the kind of space cadet who might do such a thing.

However, these do trim down successfully by several volts. Just not down far enough...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kato on November 05, 2013, 06:56:25 AM
For anyone interested, it was indeed the DMM battery.   Thanks Udo and Jeff for chiming in.

An hour earlier I trimmed a different JLM based PSU and that "worked."  At first I thought, "It can't be the battery because I just successfully trimmed that other PSU..."   ... or did I? With a fresh battery, the other PSU read low on all rails.  I guess that makes sense. If the DMM expects a certain voltage as a reference voltage...   it only stands to reason.  :P

Bad memory.  I should label gear with post-its, especially stuff that's "finished" but not deployed. Because most likely I trimmed the 51x PSU months ago, while the pots were easy to access, then forgot. In the wired-up case, with the board mounted to the enclosure's side wall, getting to the trimmers with a jeweler's screwdriver was um, scary. :)

Hours wasted.  But good lesson. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on November 05, 2013, 07:32:16 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Bonsaimaster on December 03, 2013, 07:31:07 PM
Ok simple question but looking for conformation. I am looking to put this PSU in a rack case. I will be using a toggle switch to turn the unit on. I want two leds to light up on the front  panel when turned on. So here is what I came up with. From transformer to DPDT switch one side to make the connection the other side to turn the leds on. I would connect the top terminals together?

Thanks
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kato on December 03, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
That will burn out your LEDs with like, quickness.

The most straightforward way is to just use the pads for the LEDs on the PSU and run wires to your front panel. Just use 2 of the 5 indicator LEDs, and you have the added benefit of knowing when 2 of your rails have gone out.

Or if you want to up the number from 2 to 5 LEDs, you can use the LED indicators as intended. Like this:

(http://studio939.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p940622594-4.jpg)

For safety, the DPDT should be switching both the Live and Neutral wires from the IEC, with a fuse inline. If you use the switch post transformer like you subscribed, your unit will always be "on" to some extent, with power to the toroid, draining power even when not in use.

See Chunger's PSU build (http://studio939.blogspot.com/2012/08/gdiy-51x-power-supply-build.html) for an excellent walkthrough.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Bonsaimaster on December 03, 2013, 10:06:20 PM
Thats a good idea. Also can I do 7 LEDS? 5 for the power indicators and two for the power. If so should I wire them parallel or series? and which one should I double up?

Daniel
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Bonsaimaster on December 03, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
Also do you have a part number for those heatsinks?

Here is the idea for the front panel and the LEDS
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on December 04, 2013, 01:36:28 AM
Thats a good idea. Also can I do 7 LEDS? 5 for the power indicators and two for the power. If so should I wire them parallel or series? and which one should I double up?

Daniel
Hello Daniel,

The additional leds for power are a bit overkill I think.
When the others are lit you can already see that all rails are working,therefore the unit must be powered on,no? ;)

Best regards,

Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Bonsaimaster on December 04, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
Its more visual than necessary.
Plus it looks cool!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: AudioGimmer on January 14, 2014, 07:58:07 AM
Built up my PSU on Sunday

What a great kit, the fit of all the parts is great, and super easy to put together.

Fired up right first time, and voltages all trimmed to correct settings. Trickiest part was wiring the 7pin to the end of the multiway cable, not a lot of space in the pin's solder cups.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3722/11946141023_81854d6966_z.jpg)

My soldering is pretty neat and tidy, but I struggle with dressing cable and wires as neatly as everyone else seems to.

Finished and ready for action:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/11946145003_f51208636c_z.jpg)

Thanks to all the 51x team, especially Volker for making sure the kit was finally delivered [no thanks to Hermes....]

The Gimmer
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 14, 2014, 08:11:55 AM
[no thanks to Hermes....]
you should add how it arrived ...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sharpeleven on February 15, 2014, 09:40:29 AM
I'm relocating to Europe with two of Jeff's 51x floor box PSUs (already built and working great in US). Is it enough to just flip the voltage selector to 230V from 115V? Are there any other adjustments needed, eg. wiring, fuses, or am I good to go?
thanks!!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 15, 2014, 11:05:22 AM
Just switch to 230V, and all is fine.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: technoteo on February 23, 2014, 06:25:05 PM
Just finished to build the PSU from Volker, it was really easy and fun.  :) :) Iwas impressed by the quality of the materials and the way it's done. Great work!!

To check if I conected the trafo right I wired the out to a junction terminal to easily check the voltages.

Thanks Volker!

Now I'm waiting for 2 x VP28 and 2 x 312 from Jeff
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sharpeleven on February 24, 2014, 12:59:08 PM
Ok, I'm building yet another 51x PSU  8) but this time it looks like I'm stuck...

Before first power up I figured it might be a good idea to check JP-1-1 for any continuity. Indeed there is continuity between GND/CHA and 48V and +24V. Same outcome with no DC cables installed.

I cross checked against one of my working 51x PSUs and there is no continuity there (expt of course btw CHA & GND). I also checked against any obvious signs, orientation, solder bridges, etc, reflowed all solder points but to no avail.

Any clues would be highly appreciated!

At one point during the build I had to de- & resolder  JP-1-1 cause it got accidentally installed in reverse orientation. Might that have damage the PCB?

thanks!!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 24, 2014, 02:23:04 PM
I would check the voltage regulators for those sections. Did you use the silicon pads? Maybe they are too tight? Take those screws out and slightly pry those regs outward so they do not make any physical contact with the heatsink sides then measure DCR between the 48V and +24V headers.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sharpeleven on February 25, 2014, 01:00:43 PM
I would check the voltage regulators for those sections. Did you use the silicon pads? Maybe they are too tight? Take those screws out and slightly pry those regs outward so they do not make any physical contact with the heatsink sides then measure DCR between the 48V and +24V headers.

Thanks, Jeff, you da man! Indeed it was the regulators. Loosening and reseating them did the trick - problem solved. Thank you!!!  :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 25, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
Great. They need to be nice and snug but over-tightening them can spell trouble.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: theokbird on February 26, 2014, 02:51:58 AM
I bought a dual VPR (+16v, -16v) kit , however can i simply convert this to the 51x version(so i can accommodate 24v rails in the future if i want)  just by using the alternate resistors in my kit?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 26, 2014, 10:36:28 AM
I bought a dual VPR (+16v, -16v) kit , however can i simply convert this to the 51x version(so i can accommodate 24v rails in the future if i want)  just by using the alternate resistors in my kit?
No you can't. That would require a different toroidal transformer as well as changing the 4 R's.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: theokbird on February 26, 2014, 04:14:12 PM
Ah right, thanks!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: technoteo on March 02, 2014, 05:22:40 PM
Here is a little trick I used to keep in place the headers

I cut a piece of this puzzle foam so that can be placed between 2 connectors

(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz193/technoteo/pin1_zps8ff784ef.jpg)

and then...

(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz193/technoteo/pin2_zpsa40793b0.jpg)

the foam is the one used for kids, I use this also under my Tannoy monitors  :P

(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/103756144/Foam_Puzzle_Foam_Puzzle_Mat.jpg)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: mdmitch2 on March 03, 2014, 03:47:19 PM
Finished a vpr psu / rack a few days ago.... everything went smoothly, except one LED was out. I found that the fuse was not making a good connection. Apparently when I first put it in, I didn't push it in squarely, and it bent one end too widely, so it wasn't clamping down on the fuse. I bent it back with some pliers... problem solved.

Fun build  :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brewbacca on March 13, 2014, 03:30:04 AM
I have a pretty fresh dual VPR PSU with a single VPR 11 rack that happened to fill up rather quickly. I added a couple Don Classics U67a's and started having a bunch of problems. I checked the voltages on my PSU and the +16 was around +10. When I unplugged the power supply from the rack, it went back to ~+16. I tried plugging in the other cable (V2), and the voltage on that is around 15.9V now (both +/- while plugged in). I would assume a slight voltage drop isn't that weird for a full rack, but for the first channel, could it be that  messed up the LM350T for +16? 6+ volts seems like something is broken.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 19, 2014, 09:11:59 PM
Under full and proper load (no more than 1.5A per rail) the Floor Box PSU will sag no more than 250mV or so. Something definitely sounds wrong. Maybe that reg is too tight and nearly shorting thru the sil pad? You could remove the screw and slightly pry it away from the heatsink side and see if the problem continues.

I have seen guys forget to solder all the pins on the regulators. That can be a major issue as well.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brewbacca on March 20, 2014, 04:01:44 AM
Yup, looks like IC5 was too tight. Loosening it up a bit definitely helped. Thanks Jeff!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Vac11 on May 05, 2014, 08:24:12 AM
Maybe a beginner´s stupid question... It is also possible install the floor box PSU into rack? If so, how? Thanks ... M.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: woodring on June 06, 2014, 08:32:33 PM
The 48V fuse blew on my VPR PSU after I powered it up the first time with modules in the rack.  It tested fine prior to that.  After replacing the fuse, I haven't had it blow again.  Any idea what might have caused this?  Hopefully it won't happen again, but I'd like to know what to watch out for.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: weiss on October 03, 2014, 07:27:32 PM
Guys, i need your help. Using the smaller rev2 board for the gdiy psu in a custom case and Volkers power transformer.
I have everything soldered now and as i turn on the power button the trafo makes a loud humming sound. So i turn it off after 2 seconds to not harm anything. I soldered the white and yellow primary cables together for series connection and all secondaries are connected to the pcb. What did i miss here?

Thanks
weiss
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 03, 2014, 09:16:38 PM
Guys, i need your help. Using the smaller rev2 board for the gdiy psu in a custom case and Volkers power transformer.
I have everything soldered now and as i turn on the power button the trafo makes a loud humming sound. So i turn it off after 2 seconds to not harm anything. I soldered the white and yellow primary cables together for series connection and all secondaries are connected to the pcb. What did i miss here?

Thanks
weiss
Hello,


I'd start lifting all secondaries to sort out whether it is the transformer or the circuit.
Measure all secondary pairs for dcr first,also for shorts amongst them.A quick check for primaries dcr couldn't hurt too.Mains disconnected of course.
If all is good you can measure the ac voltages of the secondaries.
Be careful at this step because of the mains voltage.
Also make sure you have the right primary wires for series connection used.
Does your build have a voltage selector switch?


Best,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: weiss on October 04, 2014, 09:00:00 AM
hi udo, thanks for your reply. no it is a self made case. i have only one power switch and fuse holder. I think the trafo is defect. i don't know how this can happen.. i can't measure any secondary voltages
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on October 04, 2014, 09:48:00 AM
hi udo, thanks for your reply. no it is a self made case. i have only one power switch and fuse holder. I think the trafo is defect. i don't know how this can happen.. i can't measure any secondary voltages
Sorry to hear that,it's sadly the most expensive part.But glad you got it sorted.
Breaking a transformer happens sometimes,not often though.Could be broken lead(s) at the point where they leave/enter the transformer itself from too much mechanical stress,an open or interconnecting/shorting winding internally,or a transport damage.Did it work before or was it your first trial powering it up?
You can do a final quick check and measure both primary windings for dcr.What do you get?
Since you can't measure any secondary voltage it means no induction is happening,so the issue is most likely on the primaries side.


Best,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 16, 2014, 05:29:22 PM
The IEC that is shipped with the Floor Box PSU kit has been changed. The Bulgin part became very hard to get. When I did locate them, the price nearly doubled so we made a change. I have updated the pics and build docs in the first few posts of this thread to reflect what needs to be watched out for. It is very simple. Thanks!  ;)
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: brianbrianbrian on November 24, 2014, 12:24:02 PM
trying to troubleshoot an issue for a friend here:

all components installed correctly and solder joints look clean.
- the -16V terminals read correctly and the LEDs light up
- AC48 secondary reads around 60V
- i'm only getting around 4V on the orange and green secondaries but all others read around 20V
- no output from the 48VDC terminal although i'm getting around 60VDC into the regulator (i'm guessing a shorted/fried regulator?)
- no output from either of the +16VDC terminals although i can read 18.7V into each of the regulators with no output
- the sides of the enclosure (heatsinks) are getting very hot to the touch.

any help?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on November 24, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
Try loosening the screws holding the reg's to the heatsink sides. Many guys over-tighten them and they short thru the sil-pads.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: sharpeleven on December 14, 2014, 04:44:47 PM
just as a sidenote... I recently found out that the top lid does not make a connection with the rest of the chassis on one Floor Box PSU, meaning that there is no connection established between chassis ground and the slide-in top lid. This applies only to one of two units i have. This even though the unit was assembled the regular way.

Just thought it's worth mentioning as a potential safety hazard.

Wondering whats the best course of action. Reinserting the top lid does not fix the issue. I'm thinking about bending one of the rails slightly at one point to force some kind of contact between the enclosure and the lid.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: OrganizedKonfusion on January 28, 2015, 07:51:53 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread! Especially the people who messed up and came here to trouble shoot and warn others. I learned a lot about what not to do from reading through this. I still had a few hiccups, like cutting an LED too short (I don't think I was totally awake yet) and hooking up my Violet and Gray primary leads up backwards.

I'm a total newb when it comes to building electronics kits. This was essentially my first project so I was pretty surprised that it turned on after I caught my mistake with the primary leads.  All my DC voltages were in the ballpark and after some tweaking I got them dialed in.

A few words of encouragement to total beginners like me who want to build this kit: You CAN do it! Make sure you have the necessary tools ahead of time. Practice your soldering skills. Do your homework.

Thanks Classic API and everyone else!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: HP200CD on February 23, 2015, 12:51:11 AM

Hi All,
Just wanted to thank Jeff from Classic API and silent:arts for all their hard work on this project. My VPR PSU was up and running on the first try with absolutely no problems! Great documentation is the reason why. It's a real solid product, obviously something I will not have to worry about in the future. I can show it off with pride and that makes me smile. Nice robust circuit design, too. I am going to use two 5 pin Neutrik connectors on the front panel and add a locking toggle to cut off the 48V phantom power.




regards, Ted
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on February 23, 2015, 12:53:03 PM
Hi everyone,

I've run into a problem with the dual VPR that I need help tracking down. I'm extremely new to this, and tracking down problems is something I'm a complete novice at, so my apologies in advance. This is probably gonna be an "explain it like I'm 5" thing, but I really want to understand how to do this.

So I've powered up the unit, and four of the leds are lit up. The -16V on the right side is not. I've flipped the led around to make sure that wasn't it, but it still didn't light up.  I tested the JP1 screw terminals and these were the values I got:

GND = 0
CHA = 0
+48 = +48.97
-16 = -16.48
+16 = +16.45
+V#2 goes between .000 and .002
-V#2 goes between .000 and -.001
+48 = +48.97
GND = 0
CHA = 0

So from Jeff told me, the +V#2 and -V#2 should both be close to 16V. So from the little I know how to do, this is what I've checked for. I took the supply apart, and flipped it over to check all the connections. It looked good but there were a couple of spots on the -V#2 side of the board that I touched up, just to be on the safe side. I also loosened up the screw by the IC regulator into the heatsink side cause I know if it's too tight it can short out.  I'm also not getting any current at the out led, but all the others get current.

I also started trying to put the toroid connectors in pairs, one at a time and see which ones lit up which front leds to try to see where the problem was. I put the two red ones in, got one of the front leds to light, and promptly blew the 2.5A fuse in the back. Not sure if I should not test it out that way or not.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 23, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
One thing is confusing me. You had only one LED not working but are not measuring DCV at 2 of the 5 outputs. That is not possible really. If you do not see any DCV at 2 of the output terminals, then 2 of the LED's should not be lit.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on February 23, 2015, 08:10:09 PM
I just powered it up again and re-tested. I've got the black probe to the star ground, and going down the JP terminals I get the same readings. I still have just the one led out. Any ideas on where to get started trouble shooting this?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 23, 2015, 08:48:24 PM
I just powered it up again and re-tested. I've got the black probe to the star ground, and going down the JP terminals I get the same readings. I still have just the one led out. Any ideas on where to get started trouble shooting this?
Hmm, odd because the LED's do not jive with the DCV on the output header. Unless the PC pin for the header is not soldered, this is not possible. I am referring to the header pin with no voltage reading but a working LED. I think its +V#2. Let's look at that first an then worry about the -V#2 issue.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on February 23, 2015, 10:06:38 PM
OK! Made some progress. I re-soldered the +V#2 and -V#2 JP pins just to be safe. I then noticed one of the connections on the +V#2 trim wasn't solid, so I soldered that again, just to be safe.

Now, I'm getting +16 on the +V#2 JP, but the -V#2 is still showing no charge. Should I look for a similar thing with the trim? Could it be another bad solder connection?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 23, 2015, 10:14:57 PM
I would definitely start with potential bad solder joints. You should also measure DCV at both ends of the fuse for -V#2.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on February 23, 2015, 10:36:00 PM
I re-soldered anything that looked funky. I tested the fuse and I'm getting -16 on both ends. Still nothing on the JP and theres no current going to the led.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 24, 2015, 12:43:33 AM
You have -16V at both ends of F2? There is nothing between the left end of F2 and the -V#2 header terminal but the solder joint on the fuse and the solder joint on the terminal. I would reflow the solder on the F2 fuse holder, the end closest to the J1 terminal block.

Also, measure DCV from both ends of R8. That is the series R for the -V#2 LED. You can also check DCV at the small via just behind LED2.

In the attached screenshot, I have highlighted the trace that runs between F2 and the terminal pin. There is nothing in there to go wrong.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on March 02, 2015, 07:31:55 PM
Hey Jeff,

Sorry for not responding for a bit, I got sick and ended up in the hospital. Things are getting better now. So I just finally got a chance to look at things. I think I know what the problem is. So when I'm checking the DCV on pins 1 and 2 of F3, 4 and 5 I can see the DCV on both pins 1 and 2. When I check on F2, there is no charge on pin 1 going to the led. I reflowed the solder on both pins just to be sure, but it's still not sending any power. And there is no DCV on R8. So am I right in guessing that pin 1 on F2 is most likely the culprit?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 03, 2015, 06:54:43 PM
Hey Jeff,

Sorry for not responding for a bit, I got sick and ended up in the hospital. Things are getting better now. So I just finally got a chance to look at things. I think I know what the problem is. So when I'm checking the DCV on pins 1 and 2 of F3, 4 and 5 I can see the DCV on both pins 1 and 2. When I check on F2, there is no charge on pin 1 going to the led. I reflowed the solder on both pins just to be sure, but it's still not sending any power. And there is no DCV on R8. So am I right in guessing that pin 1 on F2 is most likely the culprit?
I would guess that the fuse in F2 is blown. Pull it out and check it for continuity. If a fresh one blows, there is a problem after the fuse to look for which is only the LED or a short with the header or something. There is really nothing following that fuse so you should be able to sort it out.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Angryzen on March 03, 2015, 09:18:46 PM
I feel like a freakin moron. I kept looking at the fuse thinking it was ok, but sure enough, swap it out and everything works. Thank you so much for the help, you taught me a lot about tracking down problems, and I think I understand more about how to trace circuits now. You rock my man!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on March 04, 2015, 08:42:30 AM
A friend's capi 51x psu is occasionally blowing the 48v fuse during sessions ,
anyone know how much current the 48v regulator can handle if it is NOT heat sinked ?
or other avenues of investigation to solve this ? Tia
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 04, 2015, 09:30:56 AM
A friend's capi 51x psu is occasionally blowing the 48v fuse during sessions ,
anyone know how much current the 48v regulator can handle if it is NOT heat sinked ?
or other avenues of investigation to solve this ? Tia
Hey Greg, its a 0.7A part which we have fused at 160mA. Maybe there is a module acting up with an issue?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Mishegas on March 04, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
Hiya Hiya Hiya Folks!

ALMOST finished the PSU...except I'm a bit confused with the Neutrik to J1 connections (for a VPR) ...The Neutrik has 5 cups AND a ground terminal and the spreadsheet chart at the end of the assembly aid refers to 1 thru 5....? (Also I'm assuming the BUILD photo <http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-36.jpg> is the 51X version...or?)

I REALIZE that this question is borderline moronic ...but I rather ask than do something stupid....(I just spent half a day trying to figure out why my -16LED was not lit and after reflows, new sil-pads on the regs, bla, bla, it turned out to be a slightly loose fuse holder clip...)

Thanks folks!

PS...AWESOME quality kit!- I'm replacing a BAE with this- the difference in materials is really stunning...
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 04, 2015, 07:58:59 PM
Hiya Hiya Hiya Folks!

ALMOST finished the PSU...except I'm a bit confused with the Neutrik to J1 connections (for a VPR) ...The Neutrik has 5 cups AND a ground terminal and the spreadsheet chart at the end of the assembly aid refers to 1 thru 5....? (Also I'm assuming the BUILD photo <http://www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/FB-build/FB-PSU-build-36.jpg> is the 51X version...or?)
That pic is showing a 51x cable and PSU. The VPR will have 2 less wires. Use the table near the end of the assembly guide. The #'s listed 1-5 under the Neutrik heading are referring to the small #'s printed in the plastic of the Neutrik connector. The wire #'s to use are on the far right. I highly recommend following that chart AND double checking your voltages at a card edge connector in the rack (with no modules loaded) to verify that you have everything wired up properly.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Mishegas on March 05, 2015, 10:29:13 AM
The #'s listed 1-5 under the Neutrik heading are referring to the small #'s printed in the plastic of the Neutrik connector. The wire #'s to use are on the far right. I highly recommend following that chart AND double checking your voltages at a card edge connector in the rack (with no modules loaded) to verify that you have everything wired up properly.


Forgive my continued confusion, but I'm still befuddled by the 5 numbered "cup" terminals PLUS a ground terminal on the Neutrik-(that's 6 connections on the jack)   

Do I ignore the center/top ground terminal and just solder to the #'d terminals on the Neutrik?

OR in other words- do I solder wire #'s 1 thru 5 to the corresponding # cups on the jack ?
 
thereby ignoring the green ground wire and #6 - as well ignoring as the ground terminal on the Neutrik?

If all the above is true -then I'd  just hook up to the terminal block as described in the table (?) I.E.:
Chassis = #1
Ground = #2
+16        =  #3
-16          = #4
+48         = #5

I don't mean to be numbingly literal but that's how they wired *me*....

Thanks for the help Jeff!


Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 05, 2015, 11:48:28 AM
By all rights, the connector's shell lug should go to the chassis pin. The numbers in my chart refer to what is printed on the connector. Nothing more, nothing less. Kinda straight forward.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: Mishegas on March 05, 2015, 01:26:16 PM
By all rights, the connector's shell lug should go to the chassis pin. The numbers in my chart refer to what is printed on the connector. Nothing more, nothing less. Kinda straight forward.

Thanks Jeff,

Again, sorry for my confusion,  I've never dealt with a  5pin jack before , or building a PSU for that matter!

Since this is connected to the mains I suppose I'm being little over-cautious....(maybe not?)

Cheers to you!


Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: okgb on March 11, 2015, 09:19:43 PM
My Friends 48v fuse problem seems to be the 7pin cable , so far good once he swapped  it out with another,
connectors look o.k. seems unlikely there is an internal break  ...................standing by.

No go , after powering up & down multiple times with no problem and left on for days ,
the 48 fuse went randomly sometime when the unit was on but not being used.
He did check the current draw and it was well under the fuse rating .....................so
Title: Problems with my new Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU
Post by: shockadd on June 10, 2015, 01:06:59 PM
Hello list -

I've just completed the build of this dual VPR version and am finding that all the 16 volt  output voltages are at 10.3 volts and will not adjust with the multi turn trim pots.  The phantom power is at 32 volts and will not adjust as well.   

 I've tested each resistor before installation, taken my time and double checked everything.   This is by far not my first kit build so Iam wondering what the problem is.  Like I said I was very thorough with this build and everything is correctly installed for the dual + - 16 volt supply version.
Anyone ever seen this issue before?? Did I end up with the wrong xfrmr??

Thanks and hope to hear from someone as I have two completed pres that I would really like to use...

DDD
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 10, 2015, 01:19:58 PM
My guess: you are in 115V mains-land and wired (or switched) the PSU transformer for 230V?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: shockadd on June 10, 2015, 02:11:01 PM
My guess: you are in 115V mains-land and wired (or switched) the PSU transformer for 230V?

After having coffee, looking at xfrmr schemo  I came to same conclusion... although  my mistake was that I was looking at the pics of the new IEC and wired the switch correctly, but upside down... 

Gah.... tail between legs now...

DDD
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: aud2go on July 06, 2015, 04:57:52 PM
I just attempted to build a 51 x power supply .
I took a my time with it including heat sinking diodes and power transistors.
When firing it up,  48 volt and +16,  work fine -16 shows  24 volts and is  unadjustable and the two 24 volt rales are completely unadjustable as well.  I've double checked my work everything seems to be wired properly but I can't figure it out.  I did have some trouble identifying color codes on resistors ( vision issues) so that may be one potential issue but they look the same as the build picture from Jeff.
        What did I screw up?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 06, 2015, 06:01:58 PM
I just attempted to build a 51 x power supply .
I took a my time with it including heat sinking diodes and power transistors.
When firing it up,  48 volt and +16,  work fine -16 shows  24 volts and is  unadjustable and the two 24 volt rales are completely unadjustable as well.  I've double checked my work everything seems to be wired properly but I can't figure it out.  I did have some trouble identifying color codes on resistors ( vision issues) so that may be one potential issue but they look the same as the build picture from Jeff.
        What did I screw up?
To clarify, I checked your order and you purchased the Dual VPR version not the 51x version so all four main voltage rails should be 16V not 24V.

Maybe post a pic or 2 of the PCB so we can dbl check your R values by color code. If you can't read the color codes then measuring them with your DMM is the best method. This cannot be done now that they are soldered in.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: aud2go on July 06, 2015, 08:58:41 PM
  Yes I know but the power supply says 51 X on the front of it my biggest problem was identifying resistors because they are labeled on the schematic as follows "12K2" I was not taught to Reed resistors in that fashion so I have a hard time identifying and testing values so if you give me value corrections can you give them by color code please I can only post one photo per response so let me know what else I can provide to you thanks
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 06, 2015, 09:57:32 PM
What front panel do you have? It sounds like I might have sent you the wrong front panel.

For a Dual VPR build, R4 and R6 need to be 2k43. Its hard to tell in the pic but they look like they might be 3k92?

This is only for the LED's but R8 and R9 should be 1k5 for a Dual VPR build and it looks like they are 2k21. It will only effect the brightness of those 2 LED's so first things first.

Besides the above, it looks like the components are placed properly so I am gonna guess there are some bad solder joints somewhere.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: aud2go on July 07, 2015, 12:48:51 AM
I don't understand how 2k43  is a number displayed on the digital multimeter is it 2,043 or 2,430  I'm not to clear as to how it is displayed. This is why I had so much trouble in the first place. I will check my solder joints but I'm pretty good with that.
 I do a boatload of soldering. Just confused  on reading values.
 Thanks
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 07, 2015, 05:34:19 AM
2K43 = 2430Ω = 2430R = 2,43KΩ etc
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 16, 2015, 12:30:28 PM
Hi everyone,

I am brand new to GroupDIY. Decided to take on this project as my first build. Initially, when testing the PSU about 10 days ago, everything tested fine, and I thought I had miraculously completed my first build without any major mishaps. Seems I was wrong. I finished putting together the eleven rack today, and upon turning the PSU on for testing I noticed the +48V Led no longer lit. None of the readings on the rack were accurate, so I opened up the PSU for further testing. Noticed that my multimeter no longer reads 48V on either of the JP1 48V terminals, but instead reads -16V. All of the other JP1 terminals seem to be testing accurately. Also noticed (not sure if this matters) that the longer Led leads all read around 20V except for the 48V Led lead, which reads around 16V. I've attached a picture.

Hope I've done a decent job of explaining the problem. If anyone can offer any guidance or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 16, 2015, 06:04:14 PM
Could it be a wiring error? I would remove the wires from the DC output header and check the PSU voltages again. You can check the 48V on the PSU side of the fuse.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 17, 2015, 08:44:31 PM
Hi Jeff,

Really appreciate all the help you've given with this project. Sorry for the inexperienced questions, but you did mean the JP1 connected wires (see picture)? Because I tried removing them and retesting with the multimeter, but this time I got a reading of 0.008V on the 48V terminals. Could this mean my wiring between the PCB (JP3) and the toroidal transformer is incorrect? Thanks again!

Steven
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 17, 2015, 08:48:53 PM
Well, if the 48V LED is not illuminated, the fuse is most likely out. I would check for DC on BOTH sides of the fuse.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 20, 2015, 08:00:27 PM
Thanks Jeff.  The F1 160mA fuse was blown. After replacing it the 48V was coming through, until the replacement fuse blew as well. If I leave the PSU turned on, the fuse seems fine. The fuse seems to be blowing after turning the PSU on/off a few times. Any ideas why this is happening? Thanks again!
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 20, 2015, 08:29:31 PM
Did you follow what I said above about disconnecting the cable and so on? We have no idea what you have plugged into or not plugged in the PSU/rack etc etc. Too many variables to just start guessing.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 20, 2015, 09:03:09 PM
I believe so, but as I'm sure you can tell, I'm too inexperienced to fully comprehend what you're saying. I disconnected the cables from the JP-1 section (what I have assumed is the DC output header), and tested each side of the blown fuse. One side reads 48.6V and the other side reads -16.4V. The PSU is not plugged into the rack, just plugged into a standard wall outlet.   

Don't want to waste your time Jeff. Maybe I should hire an electrician for help...  :-[
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on September 21, 2015, 01:00:22 AM
One side reads 48.6V and the other side reads -16.4V.
No way, you must be using a wrong measuring reference.
Is the lack probe connected to your star ground?
Do you have continuity from (with anything disconnected) from your IEC safety ground to your star ground to Pin 1 & 2 on your XLRs? Continuity to both of the 2 way screw terminal (JP2-1 and JP2-2) on the PCB?
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 21, 2015, 12:05:08 PM
Hey Silent Arts thanks for the help! Yes the black probe is connected to the star ground. I am not 100% sure what continuity in electronics should suggest, but I assume it means a path for current to flow that does not split, or divide? I do have the IEC safety (green/yellow wire?) connected straight to the star ground. And both JP2 terminal wires are connected straight to the star ground. I am unsure of the what the Pin 1 & 2 XLRs are. I have attached pictures. 
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 21, 2015, 12:06:33 PM
Guess it's only one pic per post...
The other side of this fuse reads 48.6V
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 21, 2015, 12:24:54 PM
I see the wires for the DC cable are still connected to the output header. I am thinking you have a short or error in the wiring. Remove all of the wires from the JP1 header and measure the output voltages again.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 21, 2015, 12:40:02 PM
Oops! Sorry Jeff, I tried reconnecting those after I replaced the 160mA fuse, which btw I need to buy a few more of :). After removing the DC output wires again, now I have a 0.01V reading on the fuse. Still 48.6V on the other side.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 21, 2015, 02:18:52 PM
Yes of course, because the fuse is blown. At least there is no -16V. This confirms that you have an error in the cable, connector(s) or rack. Something  after the PSU.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: 4D Audio on September 21, 2015, 03:45:12 PM
Ok thanks for your help! (and patience). That's a BIG relief. Looks like I have some troubleshooting to do. Also, where can I buy some new fuses? Can't find them on your site.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: tgr on September 22, 2015, 08:55:07 AM
Hello,

Greetings from Berlin. Aaron here. I am a long time lurker but finally registered user. I built my 51x during the gdiy "blackout" andhave most certainly made some errors i.e. fuses are blowing when I switch the floor PSU on. I've checked my transformer & IEC wiring against the pics here in the list and AFAICT, I'm hooked up ok. Like I said however, I'm blowing fuses though.

I haven't found a troubleshooting guide yet. If it exists can someone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks.

Aaron
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 22, 2015, 10:27:55 AM
Which fuses? That can be a clue. The biggest mistake folks make on these is over tightening the positive regulators to the heatsink sides. That shorts them out thru the sill pads.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: tgr on September 22, 2015, 11:01:32 AM
Hi and thanks for the quick response. The fuse in the IEC socket blew, I checked and saw that I had a 2.5 in instead of a 1.25. I replaced it and it blew again.

Shall I loosen/remove the heatsinks still?

Attached pic of IEC wiring.

Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 22, 2015, 11:52:37 AM
Ah. I would triple check all of the mains, primary and secondary wiring. A direct short somewhere on the secondary side of the toroid would cause this. You could try to find it by probing for DCR at the JP3 AC inlet headers. Do this with the secondary wiring disconnected from the JP3 header and DO NOT CONNECT TO AC SOURCE.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: tgr on September 23, 2015, 04:28:59 AM
Hey, thanks for that. Sorry to be dim but, can you provide more detail. If I remove the 11 wires from J3 where are my test points?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 23, 2015, 10:00:46 AM
Hey, thanks for that. Sorry to be dim but, can you provide more detail. If I remove the 11 wires from J3 where are my test points?
There are 10 wires to remove not 11. You will probe for DCR between the AC entry points for each sections diode bridge. Take a look at the schemo. For example, JP3-5 and JP3-6 are for the -16V rail. If these 2 AC entry points are somehow "connected" or shorted together (somewhere), it will near immediately take out the mains fuse when you power up. You most likely have one (or more) shorts between the pairs of AC entry points on the JP3 header.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: tgr on September 24, 2015, 06:53:25 AM
Got it. :D Thanks for your time.

I tested all the pairs and, just in case, I tested the permutations i.e. 1 to 2, 1 to  3.... 5 to 1, 5 to 2 ... etc.

No shorts. Next steps?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on September 24, 2015, 09:59:09 AM
Since the wires are disconnected, check the windings on the toroid's secondary for shorts. MAKE SURE there is no live AC connected to the PSU. FYI, these readings will be less than 10Ω. Keep in mind you are looking for a direct short.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Zamoht on October 26, 2015, 03:18:48 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm assembling  a VPR PSU. everything went fine, but now I'm kinda stuck with measuring the voltage values at step 38 of the build manual...

in stead of getting values close to what's on the pcb i get the following:

I cant seem to get the reading of the 16v terminals lower than 19.33 volts.
The values on the 48V terminals are 63Volts.

Also the values measured from the toroid do not match the spec sheet:
Red are both at 15V
Orange both -7.8V
Yellow both 15V
Green both -4.2V
Black both 44V

Mains is 230 Volts

Anyone who can help me out?

Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 26, 2015, 07:48:07 PM
When measuring the ACV at the inlet header, there is no ground reference so your DMM probes go one to each of the colors from a winding. For example; black probe to 1st yellow secondary lead, red probe to 2nd yellow secondary lead.

Can you post a few pics of the PCB so we can see all of the resistors?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Zamoht on October 27, 2015, 03:41:57 PM
here 2 pics of the PCB, hope this is clear enough :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 28, 2015, 05:07:44 PM
OK the R's look correct. Did you see my note about measure the voltages at the AC inlet header?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Zamoht on October 28, 2015, 06:29:59 PM
when measuring the ac inlet per color, all give values around 25,5 Volts, except for the black ones,   which are  73 Volts
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 28, 2015, 06:57:49 PM
when measuring the ac inlet per color, all give values around 25,5 Volts, except for the black ones,   which are  73 Volts
Hmm that's very high. Can you check your AC source? Next maybe post a few good pics of the primary wiring to the mains switch and voltage select switch.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Zamoht on October 28, 2015, 07:09:18 PM
I think i'Il might be needing a new  DMM, as the source from the wall measures 330 volts in stead off 220-240..
I check with another DMM on this tomorrow.

(and if that's the case, the psu might have been working properly after all :) )
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 28, 2015, 07:40:40 PM
I think i'Il might be needing a new  DMM, as the source from the wall measures 330 volts in stead off 220-240..
I check with another DMM on this tomorrow.

(and if that's the case, the psu might have been working properly after all :) )
Wow could be. Maybe try changing the battery?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Zamoht on October 29, 2015, 07:03:45 PM
I had the same idea of changing the battery. Everything works fine now.

Really was not expecting that hahaha!  :-[

Thanks for thinking with me :)
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on October 29, 2015, 07:13:09 PM
I had the same idea of changing the battery. Everything works fine now.

Really was not expecting that hahaha!  :-[

Thanks for thinking with me :)
Gosh, good news! All is well that ends well  ;)

I hope this may help someone in the future as well.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: igrecji on December 06, 2015, 10:41:09 AM
Hi Jeffrey,

Just finishing the 51 Floor Box PSU, kit is very nice indeed.

I just have a problem with 48V: I can't get  more than 20V, and everything  seems to be all right around there. I got 54v on th toroïdal AC 48V, i got 70 V on the  input of the TL 843.
Have any idea???

Thank you very much,

Yves JAGET
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: igrecji on December 06, 2015, 10:46:58 AM
Hi Jeffrey,

Just finishing the 51 Floor Box PSU, kit is very nice indeed.

I just have a problem with 48V: I can't get  more than 20V, and everything  seems to be all right around there. I got 54v on th toroïdal AC 48V, i got 70 V on the  input of the TL 843.
Have any idea???

Thank you very much,

Yves JAGET
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 06, 2015, 11:45:44 AM
Are the  resistors R1 and R2 flipped with each other?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: igrecji on December 06, 2015, 01:08:41 PM

No, R1 - 150R      R2 - 5,11K
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on December 06, 2015, 01:12:12 PM
Is the 48V reg too tight and partially shorting thru the sil pad? If you look at the schemo, there is not much past the reg. Can you look close and make sure the 48V reg is the correct part/label?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: igrecji on December 06, 2015, 04:10:29 PM
Yes i will Jeffrey,
tomorow i will have a deep investigation on that.

Thank you,

Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 08, 2016, 11:12:27 PM
I just finished my third module build today, and when I went to test I got no sound. My eleven space rack was also loaded with a VP28 and VP312 (both worked fine yesterday). After troubleshooting a bit I realized none of my modules had audio, and that my rack wasn't passing +16v. I then check the PSU and the +16v terminal comes out at 0.006v.
Thoughts on what might have happened, and what action I should take?

Additional things I noticed:
- the signal light on my VP28 was flickering, and there was a rhythmic ticking when i monitored it (this is when I realized it wasn't just the new module).
- the VP312's transformer was a little warm (never took notice, so could be normal)
- no smells, or signs of component damage.
- phantom switches light up.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 12:35:37 AM
Is it a 18-pin 51x rack or 15-pin VPR rack? Maybe a bad opamp on the last module knocked out the 16V rail?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 09, 2016, 12:59:06 AM
Is it a 18-pin 51x rack or 15-pin VPR rack? Maybe a bad opamp on the last module knocked out the 16V rail?

Its the VPR.

What does a knocked rail entail?

Thanks, Jeff!
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 09:50:20 AM
What does a knocked rail entail?
Most likely just changing the fuse inside the PSU. The important thing is to find out what took it down. I would assume it has something to do with the last module you loaded. With the module not loaded in the rack or under power, I would check DCR from gold finger #12 to #5 and then from #14 to #5. Set your DMM for under 200Ω since you are looking for a direct or close to it short. If you find a low resistance, remove one opamp and remeasure, then remove the 2nd one and remeasure. I guess that is assuming that your 3rd module has 2 opamps. What is the 3rd module?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 09, 2016, 11:46:54 AM
What does a knocked rail entail?
Most likely just changing the fuse inside the PSU. The important thing is to find out what took it down. I would assume it has something to do with the last module you loaded. With the module not loaded in the rack or under power, I would check DCR from gold finger #12 to #5 and then from #14 to #5. Set your DMM for under 200Ω since you are looking for a direct or close to it short. If you find a low resistance, remove one opamp and remeasure, then remove the 2nd one and remeasure. I guess that is assuming that your 3rd module has 2 opamps. What is the 3rd module?

3rd Module is a VP26 w/gar2520 kit.

DCR = card connectors, correct?
Unless I'm doing it wrong, I get no resistance #5 to #14 on any of my modules regardless of opamp in or out.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 11:52:34 AM
What does a knocked rail entail?
Most likely just changing the fuse inside the PSU. The important thing is to find out what took it down. I would assume it has something to do with the last module you loaded. With the module not loaded in the rack or under power, I would check DCR from gold finger #12 to #5 and then from #14 to #5. Set your DMM for under 200Ω since you are looking for a direct or close to it short. If you find a low resistance, remove one opamp and remeasure, then remove the 2nd one and remeasure. I guess that is assuming that your 3rd module has 2 opamps. What is the 3rd module?

3rd Module is a VP26 w/gar2520 kit.

DCR = card connectors, correct?
Unless I'm doing it wrong, I get no resistance #5 to #14 on any of my modules regardless of opamp in or out.
OK thats good now what about #12 to #5? #14 is -16V and #12 is the +16V rail.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 09, 2016, 12:25:43 PM
What does a knocked rail entail?
Most likely just changing the fuse inside the PSU. The important thing is to find out what took it down. I would assume it has something to do with the last module you loaded. With the module not loaded in the rack or under power, I would check DCR from gold finger #12 to #5 and then from #14 to #5. Set your DMM for under 200Ω since you are looking for a direct or close to it short. If you find a low resistance, remove one opamp and remeasure, then remove the 2nd one and remeasure. I guess that is assuming that your 3rd module has 2 opamps. What is the 3rd module?

3rd Module is a VP26 w/gar2520 kit.

DCR = card connectors, correct?
Unless I'm doing it wrong, I get no resistance #5 to #14 on any of my modules regardless of opamp in or out.
OK thats good now what about #12 to #5? #14 is -16V and #12 is the +16V rail.

#5 to #12 (attached picture above) are 2M+ on the VP312 and VP26, and 286k for the VP28.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 12:29:09 PM
#5 to #12 (attached picture above) are 2M+ on the VP312 and VP26, and 286k for the VP28.
OK that is all fine and will not knock out your PSU. I would test the opamp from the last module. Was that built from a kit?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 09, 2016, 01:05:52 PM
#5 to #12 (attached picture above) are 2M+ on the VP312 and VP26, and 286k for the VP28.
OK that is all fine and will not knock out your PSU. I would test the opamp from the last module. Was that built from a kit?

It was,  gar2520.

How do I go about testing?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 01:12:29 PM
#5 to #12 (attached picture above) are 2M+ on the VP312 and VP26, and 286k for the VP28.
OK that is all fine and will not knock out your PSU. I would test the opamp from the last module. Was that built from a kit?

It was,  gar2520.

How do I go about testing?
Well, I would replace the fuse in the PSU and make sure the +16V is correct. Then insert the new module with no opamp. I assume all things will still be fine. Then install the opamp and reinsert the module. If it knocks out your +16V rail again, there is a build problem on that opamp  ;) Also, are the amps seated right? http://capi-gear.com/catalog/DOA_Install.php
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: nashflashcrash on February 09, 2016, 03:09:08 PM
#5 to #12 (attached picture above) are 2M+ on the VP312 and VP26, and 286k for the VP28.
OK that is all fine and will not knock out your PSU. I would test the opamp from the last module. Was that built from a kit?

It was,  gar2520.

How do I go about testing?
Well, I would replace the fuse in the PSU and make sure the +16V is correct. Then insert the new module with no opamp. I assume all things will still be fine. Then install the opamp and reinsert the module. If it knocks out your +16V rail again, there is a build problem on that opamp  ;) Also, are the amps seated right? http://capi-gear.com/catalog/DOA_Install.php

Its definitely the new opamp. I'll go ahead and order a fresh one.

I did pop the +48v fuse just powering up my old modules. They're performing fine with a new one, but is that something to keep an eye on?

Thanks for the quick responses (and the learning experience), Jeff.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on February 09, 2016, 03:34:18 PM
I did pop the +48v fuse just powering up my old modules. They're performing fine with a new one, but is that something to keep an eye on?
This it totally not normal.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kevinkace on June 17, 2016, 11:26:12 AM
About ready to power up for the first time!

http://i.imgur.com/zA9B356.jpg
http://imgur.com/zhuWWjU.jpg
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kevinkace on June 18, 2016, 12:41:42 PM
Well blew the IEC fuse on first power up!  All the other fuses look intact.

I noticed I didn't have the heatshrink down over the ends of the Fastons,  Could current have jumped?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kevinkace on June 18, 2016, 09:45:27 PM
Maybe I was using the wrong fuse, as I picked up some 1A250V slow blow fuses in preparation for trial and error fixing, but it powered up and all voltages are now dialed in.  ;D
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on June 19, 2016, 08:09:02 AM
Maybe I was using the wrong fuse, as I picked up some 1A250V slow blow fuses in preparation for trial and error fixing, but it powered up and all voltages are now dialed in.  ;D
Trial & error fixing on mains voltage is never a good idea  8)


Have fun,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Kevinkmny on June 27, 2016, 08:10:14 PM
Secondary Toroid wiring question...

My apologies in advance but it doesn't seem clear to me from the build documentation how to connect the secondary toroid wiring.

It appears as though the pics are from a 51x build ?

Do I simply attach them in sequence per the polarity markings starting with the red pair on down the line?

Thanks!
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 28, 2016, 10:39:18 AM
The only pair that is different is the 48V pair of leads. For a 51x toroid they are white and for a VPR toroid they are black. Everything else is the same.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on November 03, 2016, 01:10:10 AM
Hello friends!

I managed to put one of the floor PSU's in a single rack space that was 7" deep. I had to place the big caps and regulators w/ heat sinks off board. I used two transformers as the one with the kit is too tall. One 2x16 and one 2x24. I'm just doing VPR modules so I didn't need the 24V rails. The 2x24 transformer had the secondaries wired in series for phantom power. I was able to barely get the top cover on, as the actual chassis isnt quite 1U space tall. If I used a case that was flush with the front panel it would have made things easier. Also, if I wasn't so rushed, I probably would have just got one of the Total Audio Control rack PSU kits so it would have looked nicer. But where is the fun in doing things easy? It's much more exciting working late into night free handing all the metal work with a cordless drill and a Dremel tool. Fired up perfectly the first time, though. Thanks to Jeff and Volker for this design.

Thanks!

Paul


Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on November 03, 2016, 01:12:59 AM
Another Pic.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on November 03, 2016, 01:24:55 AM
Another.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Potato Cakes on November 03, 2016, 01:33:20 AM
Last one.
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: hanso on January 08, 2017, 03:15:07 PM
Thought I should share this:Some of us german or european builders seem to have slight difficulties with the transformer wires and their colours,which one goes where etc..
I made a little pic using the transformer description on the classic api site as a template (mea culpa Jeff!) and modified it to german colour coding.You´ll find the pdf at the end of this post.
I´m not sure if this is the same trafo Cemal sells,I got mine from Volker.Maybe someone can chime in here?

Here are some pics in detail I took from my build:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img411/1764/mainswiringgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/mainswiringgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img252/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/8727/wirecoloursgermantransf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/wirecoloursgermantransf.jpg/)

Thanks for watching,hope to have helped,

Udo ;)

Udo, would you mind sharing the photos again? It seems they have disappeared. Thanks for the pdf with the colors "translated". I will probably manage with the help of that pdf, but it would be great to double check with your photos.

Greetings, Hans-Olav
Title: Re: [BUILD] Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 09, 2017, 11:09:56 AM
Udo, would you mind sharing the photos again? It seems they have disappeared. Thanks for the pdf with the colors "translated". I will probably manage with the help of that pdf, but it would be great to double check with your photos.

Greetings, Hans-Olav
Hello Hans-Olav,


sadly I had most of my pics on imageshack......and lost them two times meanwhile!
Will not do it this way anymore.
Also this was in 2012,so quite long ago.
I even can't remember which build my post refers to,was it a floor box or one of my big dual 51x types?
Best is to tell me which part(s) you want to see on what kind of build.
Then I might open up that device and do some new pics again.....if I can access it easily of course.
Shouldn't be too complicated to do on a floorbox,I have one here.


Best regards,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: hanso on January 09, 2017, 12:40:31 PM
That would be great! It's a VPR floorbox, with transformer from Volker. I'm unsure of both the input and output wiring to the transformer.

Cheers!
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 09, 2017, 01:11:33 PM
That would be great! It's a VPR floorbox, with transformer from Volker. I'm unsure of both the input and output wiring to the transformer.

Cheers!
O.K.,seems to be the very same transformer on my floor box,it´s a "RONDO-MÜLLER" from Volker.
Here we go.


The mains wiring (please-as always- be careful with mains voltages):
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 09, 2017, 01:12:21 PM
Secondaries:



Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on January 09, 2017, 01:13:13 PM
…and an overview.


Cheers,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: hanso on January 11, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
Thanks a lot! That's very kind of you. I'm new to this community, so I will consider this a warm welcome.   :D

I will get on with the project next week. Excited!
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: hanso on February 16, 2017, 06:05:36 AM
I'm happy to inform you that my build was a success!

At first the 48 V fuse blew. I had read here on the forum something similar regarding a Shadow Hills Mono Gama, so that module was quickly suspected. After I removed that module the 48 V fuse has held up. I guess I'll just sell the Mono Gama then.

Big thanks to Udo, Jeff, Volker and this whole great community!
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Patrik on April 12, 2017, 03:17:22 AM
Hi,

I have an issue with my PSU floorbox.

A quick background to the issue.
I assembled it about 2 month ago and it has been working fine until I did some initial testing three days ago, on a new preamp module (Don NV73) and accidently shorted something with my DMM probes which resulted in the mains fuse blowing. Stupid me!
I dont know exactly what I accidently touched, but I replaced the mains fuse and everything was working fine afterwards. the PSU was turned on for about 30 minutes and I recorded some with no issues.
Two days later, after not touching anything since It was last working I turned the PSU on again but this time the mains fuse blew again, immediately. I disconnected the psu from the 511 rack and powered on but the fuse blew immediately again.

If I disconnect the 48V secondary windings from the transformer the PSU powers on. If I connect the 48V wires again the mains fuse blows. the 48v fuse on the PCB is fine. The powercord is disconnected from the PSU so the 511 rack and cable can be ruled out.
If i connect only one of the 48v secondary pair (the black wires on the rondo) the unit powers on and AC voltage between connector and ground reads 0.4V. The loose end reads about 55V.  If I disconnect both black wires and measure them one reads about 17,5V and the other 26V.

PSU is 511 24v version ordered from Volker. Rondo Müller transformer.

Any particular part that would be the first to check, and how?
I hope you can help me!

Thanks for reading.
 
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on April 12, 2017, 11:06:27 AM
@ Patrik, sounds like there is a short of some kind between the toroid and the bridge rectifier. You could verify this by checking DCR at the inlet for the 48V windings with those leads disconnected. NO AC power connected to the unit during this! If you get a low reading there, you can backtrace towards the bridge rect to find it. Might be a stray wire stand or something?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Patrik on April 13, 2017, 05:08:37 AM
I measured the resistance on the 48v connectors on the AC side to Mohm range. Values are moving on the DMM as I measure though, I guess its because of the capacitors in the circuit?
On the positive side of the Bridge it seems to move in the kohm range. Is this as it should be?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Patrik on April 18, 2017, 02:53:04 AM
The 48v fuse looked all fine and beeped for continuity on my DMM while troubleshooting.
It turned out when I measured the fuse that it had a 10ohm resistance (not to ground but internally) I didn't see that coming and I haven't seen that before, but I replaced it and after that the unit works.

Can anyone explain how a "half broken" fuse cause the mains fuse to brake?
 
Thanks for showing the way!

Regards
Patrik
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 18, 2017, 03:32:12 AM
Can anyone explain how a "half broken" fuse cause the mains fuse to brake?
No  :D
But mysteries sometimes happen. You might have fixed something else without recognizing.
Glad everything works again.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: andybaker28 on June 04, 2017, 10:40:33 AM
Hi there

I just finished a two channel power supply. Kind of strange thing happening and not sure where to begin. When I finished both channels were measuring correctly and seemingly there was no problem. So I put the unit together and tested it on my rack. When I plugged it in I noticed that my 4 channels of VP 28s all had an input kind of ringing sound. Low in volume but steady and clear. The VP 28s did not work, but the Helios and Chandler pres did still work but still with a bit of the same ringing tone. I unplugged the supply and tried channel two of the supply and no problem at all, nice a clean sounding. So I am not sure what might cause this? Anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks in advance!

Andy
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 04, 2017, 11:58:58 AM
What are the output voltages after final assembly? Remove all modules and measure DCV at one of the card edge connectors in the rack.

Maybe one of the regulators is fastened to strongly and shorting out to the heatsink, or maybe there is a problem inside of the cable connector.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: andybaker28 on June 04, 2017, 12:54:15 PM
What are the output voltages after final assembly? Remove all modules and measure DCV at one of the card edge connectors in the rack.

Maybe one of the regulators is fastened to strongly and shorting out to the heatsink, or maybe there is a problem inside of the cable connector.

Hi there! The final voltages were the same on both sides of the supply, I set them at + and minus 16.7 and 48.5. They seemed to adjust with no problem and were steady as I set them.. I saw many people had had the issue with the heat sink and regulator. I was trying to be careful there but I will check for shorts.. I will check the connector as well.

Thanks and I will get back soon

A
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on June 04, 2017, 01:08:11 PM
Hi there! The final voltages were the same on both sides of the supply, I set them at + and minus 16.7 and 48.5. They seemed to adjust with no problem and were steady as I set them.. I saw many people had had the issue with the heat sink and regulator. I was trying to be careful there but I will check for shorts.. I will check the connector as well.

Thanks and I will get back soon

A
I would check voltages at the card edge connectors inside the rack with no modules installed.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: andybaker28 on June 04, 2017, 02:30:49 PM
What are the output voltages after final assembly? Remove all modules and measure DCV at one of the card edge connectors in the rack.

Maybe one of the regulators is fastened to strongly and shorting out to the heatsink, or maybe there is a problem inside of the cable connector.

Hi there, I found it! It was indeed the connector! Thanks for your suggestion! Its up and running now!
Thanks so much!!!

Andy
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on June 10, 2017, 10:19:16 AM
I've got two 51X PSUs each powering one rack with eleven 24V NV73 preamps. The other day one PSU started crapping out.

I checked voltages and it measured 24.5V while the working PSU measured 24.7 so I trimmed both to 24.7 and now all seem good (I also trimmed voltages at the 2N3055s in the NV73 modules). However further checks showed that the former faulty PSU went from 24.7V to 24.4V when powering all modules, while the other PSU only sagged to 24.6V. Is that normal?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on June 10, 2017, 10:50:37 AM
What exactly do you mean with crapping out?
The voltages you are reading are all fine.
I wouldn't care about 0,2V difference.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Unit7 on June 10, 2017, 03:06:49 PM
What exactly do you mean with crapping out?
The voltages you are reading are all fine.
I wouldn't care about 0,2V difference.

Thanks Volker!
The PSU sagged and voltage got below what the NV73s needed, causing the relays in all 11 modules to switch off, making the PSU to recover, making the relays open again. Over and over again in an approx 4 second cycle.

This only happened with the combination PSU #1 powering Rack #1, no other combination.

So I trimmed the PSU #1 to 24.7 and also fine trimmed the voltage at the 2N3055 in all modules and all now seem good.

I was just concerned that PSU #1 went to 24.4 loaded while PSU #2 only went to 24.6 loaded by the same 11 slot rack. But if you say it's fine I feel fine  :)

Thanks!
Paul
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: Notes2k on January 25, 2018, 11:37:27 AM
I'm happy to inform you that my build was a success!

At first the 48 V fuse blew. I had read here on the forum something similar regarding a Shadow Hills Mono Gama, so that module was quickly suspected. After I removed that module the 48 V fuse has held up. I guess I'll just sell the Mono Gama then.

Big thanks to Udo, Jeff, Volker and this whole great community!

Is there any way to stop the Mono Gama's from blowing the 48 V fuse?  I'm having the same issue.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on March 27, 2018, 06:02:18 AM
Dual VPR build here. Just at the stage of measuring JP1 after turning unit on for the first time.

Problems.

My -16v, +16v,   #1 LEDS aren't lighting. +48v LED is on. #2  -16v LED not on, #2 +16v is on but not as bright as +48v LED

Measuring the JP1 terminals with my DMM, i'm just getting numbers jumping all over, nothing that seems representative of what it should be. My DMM is the DMR-4200. tried using 200mv or 2v.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on March 27, 2018, 07:03:30 AM
It seems I did not have most the toroidal leads properly situated in the JP3 terminals - this is my first time working with these components - what am I doing wrong? How do I get the most solid dependable connection with these? I tinned the leads but to me in my mind - that hardens the leads so they don't clamp down as well in the terminal... Did I over tin the leads?

Do I just have to be more precise and make sure the lead is actually touching the contact and then clamp down? I sort of just, stuck them in... and screwed down without much care... What is the specific micro art of these little green terminals that results in a dependable connection?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 27, 2018, 07:09:57 PM
I am not sure how to answer fitting the tinned leads into the screw headers. It is very basic and user friendly in my mind. You ask what you are doing wrong but we cannot see what have done so hard to answer. Maybe some pics would help.

If the LED's aren't illuminating, check DCV at the respective fuse and see if you have proper voltages. If you do, then the LED's are in backwards. If you don't then its another problem. If the illumination is not similar, your voltages going to the LED's are way off and/or you populated some wrong resistors somewhere.

Not sure of your DMM but nothing we are working with is in the 200mV or 2V range, its all above that.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on March 27, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
All LEDS are on, but sometimes not... and that seems to change as soon as I wiggle one of the wires. leave it alone, and then sometimes the LED fades back off.  then I wiggle again and then back on.

From what I can see, I have all the wires just as exactly as what is show in the pic.

+48v is definitely way brighter than the  16v LEDS,.. %75 brighter.

Maybe some of the toroidal leads need to be longer
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 27, 2018, 08:39:28 PM
If you can pull on the secondary leads of the toroid and they feel like they will come out of the screw terminals...they are no where near tight enough. DO NOT try this when the unit is under mains power.

What is your DCV at the 48V output? Check the series R that is before the 48V LED. The schematic is published for this build.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on March 27, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
They're all as tight as they will go before they just feel like they are slipping and no longer tightening.

All the LEDs are on now and seem solid. I made a few leads a bit longer.  hopefully that fixes the problem.


but,

my DMM is acting weird, maybe needs a new batter so will try that before anything else.

I thought in the build guide I was looking for .5v for 48v and .7v for the rest???


*edit*
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on March 27, 2018, 09:00:44 PM
I thought in the build guide I was looking for .5v for 48v and .7v for the rest???
I assume by this you mean 48.5V and +/-16.7V?

Check your R placement if you have the above voltages dialed in and an LED is too bright. My hint was in my last response.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 01, 2018, 03:14:04 AM
am I using my DMM wrong? I'm not sure I'm picking up anything anywhere...
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 01, 2018, 03:27:09 AM
am I using my DMM wrong? I'm not sure I'm picking up anything anywhere...
possible. for measuring your output voltage it needs to be set to measure DC, and you need to measure against ground.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 18, 2018, 10:10:24 AM
The grounds weren't making contact properly in the green terminals... I don't really get what I'm doing wrong here... And either I'm doing something wrong, or these green terminals aren't a very quality part?? The screw doesn't really clamp down solid and if over tightened, it loses its grip in the casing.  I'm both having a problem getting these terminals to properly make contact, and also the screw part not really squeezing down, the screw just sort of slips without tightening.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on April 18, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
Hello,


seriously,I don't trust this anymore,and I have never seen them fail.
Looks like you're doing something wrong......?
Please show some clear pics of these connections here,best from an angle so we can see how the wires enter the holes.
I have seen people putting wires in with a massive amount of isolation material so the wires were clamped down by plastic,not metal.This would be wrong of course.
Also I have experienced that some people didn't understand how the clamps work and tried to put wires into the wrong hole (there are different styles of connectors,some just clamp down with the screw,some use a kind of spring under the screws,some are my prefered "elevator types").
Pics will help!


Best regards,


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 18, 2018, 11:30:26 AM
my thought is I over tinned the leads so they are too hard and aren't clamping down, could this be it?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on April 18, 2018, 11:37:41 AM
my thought is I over tinned the leads so they are too hard and aren't clamping down, could this be it?
As said shows us some pics please,maybe also one of the leads that are tinned.
Did the tin really flow? Sometimes the lead ends are corroded,are dirty or both.
If you try to tin them you'll end up in a "conductivity nightmare".


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on April 18, 2018, 12:13:01 PM
As Udo says, they are high quality Phoenix products. I have never had a customer with these problems. I hate to offend you but I am pretty certain this is operator error.

We cannot judge anything you are doing without seeing some pics.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 18, 2018, 08:26:27 PM
I'm pretty sure either I'm tinning these leads too much so that the tab inside the connector isn't compressing the lead when screwed down.

The other thing I'm maybe doing wrong is..... what side of that little tab that moves up and down do I put the lead in? Do I put the lead inbetween the PCB and this metal tab so that the lead is squeezed between the PCB side and the tab, or do I put the lead inbetween the tab and the screw and squeeze up???
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on April 18, 2018, 11:14:47 PM
Hello,


both Jeff and I asked for pics,three times now.


Udo.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 19, 2018, 02:52:13 PM
pic 1
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on April 19, 2018, 02:52:55 PM
pic2
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on April 19, 2018, 03:42:49 PM
Some of those are tinned a little heavy but should work fine. Make sure there are no stray strands when you insert them.

From the factory, the clamps inside are wide open with the screws turned fully CCW. Insert your lead and tighten the screw CW. The clamp will move upward and crush the wire. Make sure the wire's insulation is not inside the clamp or it will hinder a solid connection to the wire. You should be able to pull on the wire and it will not come out. You cannot use a tiny jeweler's screwdriver. You need a bigger sized jeweler's screwdriver to get a little grip leverage. Much like the situation you had with the high/low screws on the rack.

If you are unsure of your starting point, back all screws out CCW and start over.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: kante1603 on April 19, 2018, 09:54:22 PM
+1 on Jeff's comments!
Zooming in to pic 1 it looks like you clamped the insulation,not the wires.
Especially visible on the left green one.
Also the tinned leads don't seem to have any visible markings from pressure,they might have never seen the "force" to make a good contact.


Best regards,


Udo.

Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 24, 2018, 06:25:29 AM
Hi folks, I just finished building another PSU and VPR chassis and all the voltages look good. But when I plug the DC cable and flip the switch on the PSU, the 48V fuse goes. I took the back of the chassis out and visually inspected the solders and they all look good to me. Any suggestions on how to chase this one down? I've built/repaired a few of these over the years but don't remember having these kinds of issues.

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 24, 2018, 09:55:32 AM
Hi folks, I just finished building another PSU and VPR chassis and all the voltages look good. But when I plug the DC cable and flip the switch on the PSU, the 48V fuse goes. I took the back of the chassis out and visually inspected the solders and they all look good to me. Any suggestions on how to chase this one down? I've built/repaired a few of these over the years but don't remember having these kinds of issues.

Thanks,
Rafael
Have you checked for shorts from 48V to ground in the rack with a DMM? Is the rack empty or loaded when this happens? Is it a 51x 18-pin rack?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: gar381 on July 24, 2018, 07:22:09 PM
Remote possibility but I have seen this happen.... :'( 

If you are firing up a rack full of pres and all the 48v Phan switches are turned on on the pres, 
The in-rush current charging up the 48v Rail caps on all the pres at the same time takes out the fuse.

Hope you find the problem  :)

GARY
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 24, 2018, 11:42:25 PM
These are the measurements I'm getting in the power supply

+48v: 48.2
-16v: -02.8
+16v: 02.8
+V#2: 02.8
-V#2: -02.6
+48v: 48.2


Why am I not getting 16v reading? only 2.8v.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 24, 2018, 11:55:50 PM
These are the measurements I'm getting in the power supply

+48v: 48.2
-16v: -02.8
+16v: 02.8
+V#2: 02.8
-V#2: -02.6
+48v: 48.2


Why am I not getting 16v reading? only 2.8v.
My first guess would be you have some resistors accidentally flipped/swapped around.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 25, 2018, 12:16:51 AM
what do you mean flipped/swapped around? ie, I have them in the right resistor position but their polarity is wrong, or do you mean I placed some resistors in the wrong position?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 25, 2018, 12:21:41 AM
what do you mean flipped/swapped around? ie, I have them in the right resistor position but their polarity is wrong, or do you mean I placed some resistors in the wrong position?
Direction doesn't mater for R's. I mean maybe 243R's got used instead of 2k43's.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 25, 2018, 12:27:15 AM
Yes I think that is indeed what happened. you are spot on, 243s for 2.43k
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 25, 2018, 02:53:25 AM
Okay so 2.43ks are in the 243r spots, but in the 2.43k (red, yellow, orange, brown. brown) spots are 240 (red, yellow, black, black, brown).  I can't find 243 which would be red, yellow, orange, black... wouldnt it?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 25, 2018, 06:42:01 AM
Have you checked for shorts from 48V to ground in the rack with a DMM? Is the rack empty or loaded when this happens? Is it a 51x 18-pin rack?
Hi Jeff, the rack is empty and it's the 15 pin VPR. I do see pins 1 and 5 are shorted, it looks like my DMM charges one of the capacitors when I measure between those two (either at the neutrik connector or any of the 15 pin connectors). I cleaned up any suspicious looking solders but still seeing this.

BTW, can I use a 250mA fuse instead of a 160mA? They're easier to find around here.

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 25, 2018, 10:00:33 AM
Hi Jeff, the rack is empty and it's the 15 pin VPR. I do see pins 1 and 5 are shorted, it looks like my DMM charges one of the capacitors when I measure between those two (either at the neutrik connector or any of the 15 pin connectors). I cleaned up any suspicious looking solders but still seeing this.

BTW, can I use a 250mA fuse instead of a 160mA? They're easier to find around here.

Thanks,
Rafael
You need to check from card edge connector pin-15 to pin-5. Make sure the 48V rail is not shorted. 250mA can work in a pinch but I don't think we can recommend it long term.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 25, 2018, 04:27:02 PM
You need to check from card edge connector pin-15 to pin-5. Make sure the 48V rail is not shorted. 250mA can work in a pinch but I don't think we can recommend it long term.

Sorry, that's what I meant. I see the same behavior when measuring pin 15 and 5 on the edge connectors. But I don't see anything on the board that would cause this. Any idea what could be doing it? Desoldering some of these things will take forever.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 25, 2018, 04:39:15 PM
is there a reason I have r240 and not 243?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 25, 2018, 04:56:00 PM
is there a reason I have r240 and not 243?
240R or 243R - doesn‘t matter  (but need to be in the right place on the PCB)
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 25, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Sorry, that's what I meant. I see the same behavior when measuring pin 15 and 5 on the edge connectors....
You measure a direct short between those card edge pins 5 and 15? With the PSU cable disconnected from the rack?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 25, 2018, 07:28:04 PM
You measure a direct short between those card edge pins 5 and 15? With the PSU cable disconnected from the rack?

Not a zero resistance short, it looks like the short is going through a capacitor (resistance climbs as I start measuring it).
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 25, 2018, 07:38:08 PM
For the 5pin xlrs for VPR, numbers on the cable leads correspond to  xlr pin numbers? Or does green/yellow go to 1?

almost there. My corrections fixed problems, I was a little bit worried I wreck a couple of the PCB hole leads... but everything seems to be working, all LED lights are equal brightness and measurements then became 16.2 (adjusted to .7).


--
I  think I got it... Green/Yellow gets clipped as does 6, and then 1-5 leads goes to 1-5 pins, correct?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 25, 2018, 08:00:55 PM
For the 5pin xlrs for VPR, numbers on the cable leads correspond to  xlr pin numbers? Or does green/yellow go to 1?

almost there. My corrections fixed problems, I was a little bit worried I wreck a couple of the PCB hole leads... but everything seems to be working, all LED lights are equal brightness and measurements then became 16.2 (adjusted to .7).


--
I  think I got it... Green/Yellow gets clipped as does 6, and then 1-5 leads goes to 1-5 pins, correct?

Yes, just follow the table at the end of the assembly pdf.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 25, 2018, 10:54:13 PM
Not a zero resistance short, it looks like the short is going through a capacitor (resistance climbs as I start measuring it).
Ah, so now I am betting that you have a newer style filtered rack/backplane?? I would check the polarity of the electrolytics on the backplane. Specifically C11 and C17. The two larger 1000µF caps. One of those is likely backwards.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 26, 2018, 04:20:37 AM
Ah, so now I am betting that you have a newer style filtered rack/backplane?? I would check the polarity of the electrolytics on the backplane. Specifically C11 and C17. The two larger 1000µF caps. One of those is likely backwards.

I wish ! Removed all the caps, the inductors, split the two boards and tried removing the 5-pin plug (probably damaging it in the process, those things just won't come out) and the short only went away when I removed R1. Any idea what's going on?

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on July 26, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
I wish ! Removed all the caps, the inductors, split the two boards and tried removing the 5-pin plug (probably damaging it in the process, those things just won't come out) and the short only went away when I removed R1. Any idea what's going on?

Thanks,
Rafael
R1 is between Chassis ground and audio ground. It has zero to do with the 48V rail.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 26, 2018, 05:13:20 PM
R1 is between Chassis ground and audio ground. It has zero to do with the 48V rail.

lol.. I should have stopped after 3am, I measured the wrong pins. Just re-tested now and the short is gone. I'll put things back together at a piece this time, the caps were all in the correct orientation tho.

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 26, 2018, 11:22:06 PM
Hey, I've never measured card slot pins before?  Where do I put my ground probe? On the ground pin and then move my other probe down the other pins?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 27, 2018, 12:38:43 AM
Hey, I've never measured card slot pins before?  Where do I put my ground probe? On the ground pin and then move my other probe down the other pins?

Yup, check the last table on the assembly instructions.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 27, 2018, 01:25:09 AM
Chassis or audio ground or psu gnd???
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on July 27, 2018, 05:00:34 AM
Chassis or audio ground or psu gnd???

I don't have the schematics in front of me, but I think audio and PSU ground are the same (and you should use that).
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 27, 2018, 06:30:06 AM
I figured it out, thanks. I used my DBX560a to test all the slots after testing with DMM (most inexpensive module)  for some reason.. My Elysia Xpressor is allowing audio to pass  when THE POWER IS OFF.  Is this normal, why is this? Design of the Elysia? Other modules dont seem to be doing this.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 27, 2018, 08:31:32 AM
My Elysia Xpressor is allowing audio to pass  when THE POWER IS OFF.  Is this normal, why is this? Design of the Elysia? Other modules dont seem to be doing this.
Hardwire (relay) bypass is a good design practice.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: PetezaSlice on July 27, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
Hardwire (relay) bypass is a good design practice.

Yum. those guys at Elysia.

yay, lights and sounds:


Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 01, 2018, 04:41:03 AM
I finally found time to put things together and I see the short when C17 is in place. Same behavior with either one of the caps.
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 01, 2018, 10:12:34 AM
I finally found time to put things together and I see the short when C17 is in place. Same behavior with either one of the caps.
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rafael
That is very odd unless there is an internal problem with C17, as long as you are 100% sure the polarity is correct.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 01, 2018, 07:10:33 PM
That is very odd unless there is an internal problem with C17, as long as you are 100% sure the polarity is correct.

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this or should I send it back to you?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 01, 2018, 07:38:17 PM
Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this or should I send it back to you?
I can mail you another cap but before I do simply measure DCR between the 2 thru hole pads for C17 on the PCB. You are looking for a very low Ω reading. You can also do the same thing on the cap's leads.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 02, 2018, 04:40:53 AM
I can mail you another cap but before I do simply measure DCR between the 2 thru hole pads for C17 on the PCB. You are looking for a very low Ω reading. You can also do the same thing on the cap's leads.

There's apparently nothing wrong with either the PCB or the caps. The PCB shows no short between the thru holes (infinite resistance) and both C11 and C17 start charging up (resistance increases the longer I measure their poles). This is the same behavior I see when I measure pins 5-15 on the card connector, which I've been assuming is the cause of the problem. That is, I don't see zero resistance between 5-15, but the same 'charging' behavior I mentioned. Makes sense?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 02, 2018, 09:58:11 AM
There's apparently nothing wrong with either the PCB or the caps. The PCB shows no short between the thru holes (infinite resistance) and both C11 and C17 start charging up (resistance increases the longer I measure their poles). This is the same behavior I see when I measure pins 5-15 on the card connector, which I've been assuming is the cause of the problem. That is, I don't see zero resistance between 5-15, but the same 'charging' behavior I mentioned. Makes sense?
The caps charging is correct and as expected. I thought you said there was a direct short from card edge pin-15 tp pin-5 once you installed C17?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 02, 2018, 06:45:47 PM
The caps charging is correct and as expected. I thought you said there was a direct short from card edge pin-15 tp pin-5 once you installed C17?

No, 5-15 always show the cap charging (see a previous reply). What else could be causing the fuse to blow?

Thanks,
Rafael
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 02, 2018, 07:05:57 PM
I finally found time to put things together and I see the short when C17 is in place. Same behavior with either one of the caps.
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rafael
Based on this statement I thought you had a direct short. No indication of just a charging cap.

To be clear, you are using the filtered backplane with a Floor Box PSU?? This is the Floor Box support thread not the one for the rack. Seems like you are indication a problem with the rack not the linear PSU.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 02, 2018, 07:10:07 PM
Based on this statement I thought you had a direct short. No indication of just a charging cap.

To be clear, you are using the filtered backplane with a Floor Box PSU?? This is the Floor Box support thread not the one for the rack. Seems like you are indication a problem with the rack not the linear PSU.

Yes.. is that not a valid combination? I can move the discussion to the rack thread if you'd like.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 02, 2018, 07:28:57 PM
If you are using the rack with only the Floor Box, the filtering is not needed. It is possible the inrush current to fill the 470µF caps is causing the fuse to blow. Its almost like leaving phantom on for 10 preamps and then starting up the Floor Box PSU.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 02, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
If you are using the rack with only the Floor Box, the filtering is not needed. It is possible the inrush current to fill the 470µF caps is causing the fuse to blow. Its almost like leaving phantom on for 10 preamps and then starting up the Floor Box PSU.

Any workaround (other than putting the floor box on ebay) ? The long term plan is to have a second rack, hence the floor box instead of the other power supply on your shop.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 02, 2018, 08:26:06 PM
Any workaround (other than putting the floor box on ebay) ? The long term plan is to have a second rack, hence the floor box instead of the other power supply on your shop.
If you only ever plan to use the Floor Box then no need for the filter components at all.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 02, 2018, 09:23:55 PM
If you only ever plan to use the Floor Box then no need for the filter components at all.

I got that, but what's a good workaround? Just bypass all the filtering section or use a higher current fuse?
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: jsteiger on August 03, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
I got that, but what's a good workaround? Just bypass all the filtering section or use a higher current fuse?
I would try a 160mA slow blow fuse.
Title: Re: [BUILD] CAPI Dual VPR & 51x Floor Box PSU~Official Support Thread
Post by: rafael-sf on August 20, 2018, 03:45:23 AM
I would try a 160mA slow blow fuse.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but the short blow fuse worked purrrfectly. Much obliged, Jeff.