GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Microphones => Topic started by: Enchilada on October 15, 2012, 08:12:20 AM

Title: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 /U47FET Comparison!!!
Post by: Enchilada on October 15, 2012, 08:12:20 AM
Latest thing:
See my most recent post for a comparison between my U47 with a Beeznees M7 and my U47FET with a Cathedral Pipes M7!!!
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50171.msg681289#msg681289 (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50171.msg681289#msg681289)

Also ordered one an M7 capsule from the white market. Been waiting for ages for these to become available and can't wait for it to arrive. When it does, I'll build identical circuits and shoot it out against the RK47 and the Beeznees M7  8)

I'm planning on building a few mics over the next couple of months so I thought I might start documenting them in a thread as opposed to my usual style of starting a new thread for each build. Next up I'll be building a U47 using Oliver Archut's schematic using an Alctron GT-2B as a donor and I'll try do document that build better as opposed to just posting the end result. At the moment, the mic is working although I haven't recorded anything with it just yet. I'm not much of a singer but I might head out to the studio and record something just to get some feedback on how it's sounding so far.

Here's a pic:
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/DSC_0004531x800.jpg)

Hopefully this thread doesn't annoy people, I always like seeing what others are building so I though I would share what I've been up to.

Ench.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: micaddict on October 15, 2012, 09:37:02 AM
Do keep it comin', please.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: letterbeacon on October 15, 2012, 04:19:37 PM
Next up I'll be building a U47 using Oliver Archut's schematic using an Alctron GT-2B as a donor and I'll try do document that build better as opposed to just posting the end result.

I'm thinking of doing this too at some stage -let us know how you get on!
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Blue Jinn on October 15, 2012, 05:44:06 PM
Cool. The BV8 is something like 6.5:1 isn't it? The stock circuit specifies a 12:1 or so. How does it sound? (I have one of those BV8's from Dave Thomas as well, was thinking of using it for a G7'sh type without feedback.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 15, 2012, 05:47:10 PM
Stock is but I think the 6.5:1 works because the output capacitor is 2.2uF as opposed to the original value of 1uF.

That was my understanding, I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 17, 2012, 05:36:41 PM
Next project: U47 Inspired mic.

I once tried and failed to build a U47 inspired mic using a 5693 tube. I'm going to resurrect the project to see if I can get it sounding nice. I've ordered myself an AMI T47 transformer, a Beez Neez M7 capsule and a couple more tubes for testing (EF12, EF14, EF80 and EF800).

This time, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, I'll be starting with Oliver's U47 schematic and tweaking it to taste.

I have a different donor body this time. An Alctron GT-2B on which I'll be using longer rails and a new body tube so it will all fit.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 18, 2012, 07:18:44 AM
Okie dokie, here's some more pics from my Royer build. I'll be testing it out next week with my good old friend Lauren  ;D.

PCB
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0007800x531.jpg)

2.2uF polypropylene output cap.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0009800x531.jpg)

AA BV8 style transformer.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0011800x531.jpg)

PSU PCB
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0014800x531.jpg)

Don't know if this was the best idea but it worked. Marking out where to cut with my Dremel.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0020800x531.jpg)

Hole cut.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0021800x531.jpg)

PSU Back.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0022531x800.jpg)

PSU Front
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0024531x800.jpg)

PSU Inside.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0025800x531.jpg)


I mentioned earlier that I used a 5-pin connector so I didn't have enough pins for remote pattern selection.  I used a voltage divider in a DP3T switch to give me omni, cardioid and figure-8. The switch in on the back of the mic so it's not too bad. I might have to figure out a way to paint the washer and the nut black though because they really stand out on an all black mic.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/Royer/DSC_0027531x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 18, 2012, 07:30:02 AM
Also as promised, pics of my C12. It's a fairly rough build but it works. I originally built it for a different donor mic so it was transplanted into this Alctron HST-11A because I prefer it looks wise for a C12 style mic. I couldn't drill holes to screw it on because it would have went right through the ground and I couldn't have been bothered re-doing the PCB layout so I just taped it in. Taped in the tube socket too. I might etch a new PCB one day but for now, it works.

This mic has Tim Campbell's CT12 capsule, a Cinemag CM-2480 transformer and a NOS Mullard 6072.

Again, I'll be recording Lauren with this mic next week and I'll upload it to SoundCloud for all to hear.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/C12/DSC_0005800x531.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: micaddict on October 18, 2012, 08:48:58 AM
Cool!

Hey, that picture above the last reminds me of this one from the Gearslutz forum (MCA SP-1 mods):

(http://www.boschen.org/SP1.jpg)

Both seem to be in the mood.  ;)

In all seriousness now. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Blue Jinn on October 18, 2012, 02:00:47 PM
Can you tell us how you wired the voltage divider for the pattern switching? I have a general idea of how to do that, but curious about yours.

When I get my donor body from Chunger, I'm thinking of doing another Royerish circuit, with 5 pin (as I have a lot of those) except with a full size tube (6AK5 which is supposed to be similar to 5840)

Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 18, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
Can you tell us how you wired the voltage divider for the pattern switching?

No problem, see the attached diagram. In case any noobs a viewing, a resistive divider is where you connect a voltage to two resistors in series and then to ground. If the two resistors are of equal value then the voltage will be halved between the two resistors.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Resistive_divider.png)

Here's where I learnt all about dividers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider)
Title: Re: Enchilada's mic builds.
Post by: Enchilada on October 18, 2012, 06:55:57 PM
Here's the body I'll be using for my U47 inspired mic, I'll post a better picture later. It started life as an Alctron GT-2B but I've used longer rails and had a body tube machined  ;D ;D ;D

The body is just raw steel for now which I think looks pretty cool but I'll probably end up having it painted. Just not sure what colour. It will have to match the colour of the headbasket and bottom as I wouldn't be painting them. Any suggestions?

I'm still waiting for my tubes, transformer and to pay-off my Beez Neez M7 capsule for this bad boy but because I'm so impatient I think I'll quickly chuck a royer circuit in there.

EDIT: Here's a better photo as promised.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DSC_0002531x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: tomas1808 on October 18, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
Wow!! Looks f*cking great!!

Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 19, 2012, 03:37:47 AM
+1

Quote
I've used longer rails and had a body tube machined  ;D ;D ;D

Good lookin' fer sure.

Quote
The body is just raw steel for now which I think looks pretty cool but I'll probably end up having it painted.

Do you have to? I mean, would there be another -practical- way to stop it from oxidizing? One that will keep the look pretty much as is?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 05:10:44 AM
Not really. The best options are to have it powder coated, prime it with a cold gal primer and then paint it or to have it hot dipped. Hot dipping probably offers the best protection against corrosion but I'm not a big fan of the finish. I've powder coated a mic body before but it's a bit too high gloss for me.

I think I'm going to give it a lick of paint and see how it turns out. worst case scenario I can take to it with a wire brush and try something else.

It does look pretty good in that photo although in person it looks a bit funny because the original painted parts have a slight gold tinge to them so it kind of clashes with the bare steel.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 06:41:55 AM
I couldn't help myself. I put a few spare parts into this mic body to get it going. I've used one of Bigugly's Royer PCBs, an Apex 460 transformer, an RK47 capsule and a CK5784 tube. Heater is running at 5.6V and the B+ is sitting at 108.6V (both under load). It's sounding quite good but not amazing. It will be amazing later  :P.

I also tried it with 5840 and 5693 tubes. The 5693 still had a fair 1KHz bump and the 5840 was more aggressive sounding than the 5748. I settled on it because it sounded very smooth overall.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: HellfireStudios on October 19, 2012, 08:40:43 AM
Is the body tube steel or stainless steel? Stainless will have chromium on its surface that will make it more difficult to paint/powdercoat. I intend to use a stainless tube for my next mic build, and will have to sand it well to allow the self-etching primer to bond to the surface.

Powder coating that body a Telefunken Buttercream would give it a 251 vibe. Nickle-plating the tube would probably make it resemble the rest of the mic, and look similar the the U-47 you're soon to emulate.

-James-
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 08:54:28 AM
It was galvanised pipe but when it was machined they took off the gal. Not stainless though. I thought about nickel but there's nobody locally who can do it and I don't want to have to send it away.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Dylan W on October 19, 2012, 10:13:49 AM
Looks awesome. +1 on the buttercream powdercoat, but that's just personal preference.  ;)

Could you post an interior shot? Curious to see how you extended the rails.

Dylan
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 10:37:41 AM
I kind of improvised when extending the rails. I had two damaged CAD Trion 6000 mics and I used those 4 rails to male 2 longer rails.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 19, 2012, 10:41:57 AM
Was it a 60 mm pipe, now "shaved" to 58.5 or so?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 10:45:30 AM
60mm shaved to 57.5mm. That's the dimensions of the GT-2B.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: letterbeacon on October 19, 2012, 12:57:44 PM
That looks great!  What do you mean by 'shaved'?  Would you be able to tell us what was involved in making the body?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 19, 2012, 06:06:48 PM
That looks great!  What do you mean by 'shaved'?  Would you be able to tell us what was involved in making the body?

When I say shaved, I'm just using micaddict's vernacular. I got a piece of galvanised 60mm tube for free from a steel place and had it machined by an engineer. He took 2.5mm off the outside and copied the ends of the original body so it would be a perfect fit. It cost me $30 so I think it was worth it.

Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 20, 2012, 05:01:41 AM
Quote
It cost me $30 so I think it was worth it.

Going by the picture, I would agree.  :)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: letterbeacon on October 20, 2012, 05:55:25 AM
Ah I see, so you thinned out the wall thickness of the steel?  Must have had pretty thick walls to begin with!
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Gus on October 20, 2012, 08:05:12 AM
It was galvanised pipe but when it was machined they took off the gal. Not stainless though. I thought about nickel but there's nobody locally who can do it and I don't want to have to send it away.

You might want to search for something like  "galvanized steel msds"
IMO it is a good thing to search for the MSDS before machining, drilling, cutting etc materials. 


Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 20, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
If using corrosive steel, do you need to treat the inside, too? Not for looks obviously, but to prevent any possible future problems (like rust dust on the electronics)?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 20, 2012, 09:52:16 AM
There's nothing hazardous about gal pipe. As I said earlier though, I didn't do the work. I had an engineer do it. Also, I won't have to treat the inside because it's still galvanised.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 20, 2012, 11:14:02 AM
Makes sense. I asked because I may have some iron pipes coming my way.
Anyway, on with the build.  :P
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Gus on October 20, 2012, 01:08:01 PM
There's nothing hazardous about gal pipe. As I said earlier though, I didn't do the work. I had an engineer do it. Also, I won't have to treat the inside because it's still galvanised.

Are you sure?  have you looked up machining it and the dust/metal particles?

IIRC There was a post in a thread with someone using a chop saw to cut G10  read the MSDS

Read about what gasses and fumes are released machining some plastics if they get over heated

Teflon has issues
http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/archive/burning-teflon__o_t__t_38325.html

People with the web and search engines finding MSDS's and also typing in how to machine and/or safely issues is something IMO one should do before cutting a material.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 20, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
I have. Either way, it's irrelevant to be because I didn't cut or machine it myself.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austubemills.com%2Fdocuments%2Fonesteel%2Fmsds%2Fmsdsview.asp-Synonym%2520Tubeline%2520HDG.PDF&ei=ySuDUIHUIoaiigeC0oDoAg&usg=AFQjCNFE1-Ydwzs-V1aR4F3_29RWkWVZvg (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austubemills.com%2Fdocuments%2Fonesteel%2Fmsds%2Fmsdsview.asp-Synonym%2520Tubeline%2520HDG.PDF&ei=ySuDUIHUIoaiigeC0oDoAg&usg=AFQjCNFE1-Ydwzs-V1aR4F3_29RWkWVZvg)

Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 21, 2012, 05:11:42 PM
New paint  :D.

It looks much whiter in this pic than in real life. It's more of a light beige in person (photo below).
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Dylan W on October 21, 2012, 05:46:25 PM
Nice!

Dylan
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 22, 2012, 04:22:51 AM
Shock mount arrived today  8)

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/DSC_0004531x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: manulaudic on October 23, 2012, 04:11:53 AM
This looks wonderful :)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 28, 2012, 07:43:44 PM
Received four EF800 tubes and my AMI T47 from Oliver in the mail today, let the fun begin! Oliver was even nice enough to throw in an EF80 tube for me to try out, what a champ.

My Bees Neez M7 is also in the post but should only take a couple of days seeing as I'm in Australia. I'll build the circuit tonight with the EF800 and an RK47 capsule for comparison purposes and then I'll get some samples up when the M7 arrives. With some luck my EF14 and EF12 might also turn up this week and I can compare all the tubes.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/IMAG0536.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 29, 2012, 12:50:30 AM
This transformer looks and feels of fantastic build quality. The best thing about it so far for me is that I assumed I would have to cut a hole in my PCB to mount it but I won't because the pins are below the windings  8).
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 29, 2012, 06:47:41 AM
Yep, both the T47 and T67 (as opposed to the BV8 and BV12 respectively) are "PCB mounted" versions.
A lot less expensive, too.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 29, 2012, 07:28:58 AM
Yep, both the T47 and T67 (as opposed to the BV8 and BV12 respectively) are "PCB mounted" versions.
A lot less expensive, too.

I knew it was PCB mounted but other PCB mount transformers I've seen that are PCB mount need a hole cut and I assumed wrongly that this was the same design.

I'm heading out to the studio with my friend Lauren on Thursday to record comparisons between this mic (with an RK47 and an EF800), both of my Royer modded MXL 2001 (one with an RK12 and one with an RK47) and my C12 clone with Tim's CT12 capsule.

I removed the two inner layers of mesh from the headbasket of my C12 clone tonight so hopefully that will open up the sound a little more.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: micaddict on October 29, 2012, 08:26:36 AM
Quote
I removed the two inner layers of mesh from the headbasket of my C12 clone tonight so hopefully that will open up the sound a little more.

There's no doubt in my mind it will.

Did you take pictures as you were going?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 29, 2012, 08:31:45 AM
Bugger! I forgot to take photos of the headbasket removal. It's fairly straight forward though. I just used a flat tip screwdriver. The inner two layers of mesh are only soldered at two points.

I'll make sure I take photos along the way with my U47 inspired mic.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: sedit1 on October 29, 2012, 11:26:31 AM


I'm heading out to the studio with my friend Lauren on Thursday to record comparisons between this mic (with an RK47 and an EF800), both of my Royer modded MXL 2001 (one with an RK12 and one with an RK47) and my C12 clone with Tim's CT12 capsule.


Great news, I really want to hear diiferences between "U47" and your C12 clone, just starting the C12 clone myself. Also Interested hearing the M7 in the future!
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: dmp on October 29, 2012, 11:34:37 AM
Quote
I removed the two inner layers of mesh from the headbasket of my C12 clone tonight so hopefully that will open up the sound a little more.
Any tips on how you got them out? They look like they are soldered in on my apex 460 headbasket
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 29, 2012, 04:49:58 PM
Quote from: dmp
Any tips on how you got them out? They look like they are soldered in on my apex 460 headbasket
They are only soldered at two points. I used a small flat tip screwdriver and first pushed the mesh away from the lip that goes around the inside of the headbasket. Then I used wire cutters to cut around the solder joint. The result is quite clean. I was worried because I had heard of people using a Dremel to remove the mesh but it's really not necessary with this mic.

I didn't remove the mesh from the top of the headbasket because it looked to be soldered all the way around and I didn't think it would have much of an effect on the sound.

EDIT: I'll post photos of the headbasket today.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 29, 2012, 08:38:35 PM
I've somehow managed to acquire the oldest looking EF14 tube on the planet! Despite its looks, it tested very good. I'm hoping the fact that it's glass won't negatively impact the sound of the tube. The socket hasn't arrived yet so I might have to solder wires directly because I'm that impatient.

Looks like my test with Lauren on Thursday will be with my Beesneez M7 capsule, EF14 tube and AMI T47 transformer  ;D

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/IMAG0538.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 30, 2012, 09:13:31 AM
Started putting it together, just waiting for a few resistors before I wire it all together properly :). As is my usual style, not the cleanest build but it will work.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/DSC_0006800x531.jpg)

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/DSC_0007800x531.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Dylan W on October 30, 2012, 12:28:00 PM
Looks great, nice snag on the EF14. Expecting a shootout!   ;)

Dylan
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Volume11 on October 30, 2012, 03:15:55 PM
How did you go about testing the tube? Tube tester, another mic...?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 30, 2012, 05:04:34 PM
How did you go about testing the tube? Tube tester, another mic...?
Tube tester
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 30, 2012, 08:52:22 PM
Looks great, nice snag on the EF14. Expecting a shootout!   ;)

Dylan

Thanks mate, I'm heaps keen to hear the shootout. Even though they're in different circuits it''ll be good to hear expensive capsules vs cheaper options. My console is out of order for now (rebuilding the power supply) so I'll record them through my SPL preamps.

I might even do it as a blind shootout and make it into a game of "guess the mic", I've always wanted to host a blind shootout. :P
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Gus on October 31, 2012, 04:25:10 PM
with all the information on the web why did you mount the tube so far away from the capsule?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 31, 2012, 05:10:13 PM
Does it really make that big a difference with noise? I put the tube down the bottom because the rails are closer together. It made it easier to mount the both the PCB and the tube.

The C12 had plenty of distance between the capsule and the grid. I'll be using some teflon wire which will help.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 31, 2012, 07:26:32 PM
Beesneez capsule arrived  ;D ;D ;D

I love the way it is packaged! Brass tube with nylon (I think) ends. The capsule is mounted on the bottom nylon plug and it looks amazing! I'll take photos of the capsule with my DSLR when I get home.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/IMAG0539.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on October 31, 2012, 11:41:07 PM
Resistors all arrived today too. Soldered them all in and also replaced the output cap with a big fat polypropylene one. Haven't fired it up yet, I'll do that tonight.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Volume11 on October 31, 2012, 11:58:35 PM
Beesneez capsule arrived  ;D ;D ;D

I love the way it is packaged! Brass tube with nylon (I think) ends. The capsule is mounted on the bottom nylon plug and it looks amazing! I'll take photos of the capsule with my DSLR when I get home.

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DIY/U47%20Clone/IMAG0539.jpg)
Aaaaaaahhh I'm so jealous! I can't wait to get mine, I'll be looking forward to those pics. That packaging is definitely unique looking.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: HellfireStudios on November 01, 2012, 01:13:04 AM
Does it really make that big a difference with noise? I put the tube down the bottom because the rails are closer together. It made it easier to mount the both the PCB and the tube.

The C12 had plenty of distance between the capsule and the grid. I'll be using some teflon wire which will help.

Yes.

-James-
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Enchilada on November 01, 2012, 05:30:53 AM
Here's a little shootout. Unfortunately, the U47 clone is not yet ready so it will not be competing this time around :-(.

Let's proceed. We have one C12 circuit with a CT12 capsule and two Royer circuits with RK12 and RK47 capsules. I have listed the mics in alphabetical order so as not to give anything away although I think it's fairly easy to tell which mic is which.

http://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/sets/lauren-carlson-teenage-dream (http://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/sets/lauren-carlson-teenage-dream)

This will be a semi-blind test because I've attached which mic was which in a text file if you want to know. Have a guess first though  ;).
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 01, 2012, 06:34:45 AM
 :D

The 47 (not telling here which number) was easy. The 12s were maybe a little trickier since the circuits aren't the same.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 01, 2012, 06:53:05 AM
:D

The 47 (not telling here which number) was easy. The 12s were maybe a little trickier since the circuits aren't the same.

So what's your guess/preference?
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 01, 2012, 07:35:21 AM
Quote
So what's your guess/preference?

No guess anymore since I saw the results. But I don't want to spoil it for others.
What I can say is that the one with the CT12 capsule is my favorite, which is no real surprise.  :)
The one with the RK47 is middier obviously and a little harsh on this particular female vocal.
The RK12 suits here better IMO and has plenty air. It's just not as smooth as the Campbell.

OK, now tell us you deliberately provided the wrong key.  ;D


Disclaimer: I did not listen very closely or with headphones and such, yet. First impression rather than critical, detailed listening.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 01, 2012, 07:50:54 AM
BTW, did I say you built three very nice microphones?

Good thing we pushed you a bit.  ;)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 01, 2012, 08:02:13 AM
Thanks mate!

Yeah I'm really impressed with the three mics based on this initial test. I definitely agree though that for this song and for Lauren's voice the RK47 capsule isn't a good fit.

I've now gotten the U47 clone going so I'll have to head back out there soon for another shootout! As I was soldering today, I stupidly left the 3Mohm resistor on my work bench  :-[. Now it's sounding much, much better. It takes it a very long time to settle down when changing patterns though. Also sounds VERY mid forward but not anywhere near as much as the 5693 tube U47 inspired mic I built a while back.


Now, as promised, here's my beloved new BeesNeez M7 capsule! (I uploaded this one with a higher res so you can see it better)

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/DSC_0011.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: dmp on November 01, 2012, 10:10:43 AM
Thanks for posting this.
I thought there was a slight difference between the C12 w CT12 and the Royer w/ RK12.  I thought the CT12 was little more real on key parts of the vocal. (was this the same performance or was it recorded three times?)
Now I have to save my money for one of Tim's capsules. I have a Royer (w/ beyer tx and GBC12) and a C12 (460 w/ GEtube, cw2480, GBC12) and they sound an awful lot alike.
I thought the 47 was really weak.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 01, 2012, 05:12:17 PM
(was this the same performance or was it recorded three times?)

All three mics were used on the one vocal take.

I thought the 47 was really weak.

I think the problem with the 47 in this circuit is that the circuit was originally designed to tame the harsh 67 style capsule of the MXL 2001. Seeing as the 47 capsule rolls of the highs I don't think that's why it doesn't sound great in this circuit. I may be wrong, it's just my assumption. So far I've tried the 47 in the Royer and G7 and I don't like either. I have a pair of studio projects c1 mics, I've heard it sounds good in those so I might give it a go. I would really like to build a couple of microphones with my pair that I have though.

I have a Royer (w/ beyer tx and GBC12) and a C12 (460 w/ GEtube, cw2480, GBC12) and they sound an awful lot alike.

That surprises me because I've previously used the RK12 in a Royer, G7 and C12 circuit and they all seemed to have their own flavour. I much prefer the Royer though for the RK12.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: tskguy on November 01, 2012, 11:13:20 PM
Wow! Tims capsule is by far the best in my opinion, Especialy on that vocal track. The rk47 sunded harsh and the other chinese capsule wasnt as bad but still a bit to harsh for me. That being said all mics sound pretty darn good, very nice job. And I was suprised to see a 23mm target on that beez neez m7 capsule. The originel m7 has a 25mm target and goes almost to the edge, cait wait to hear it!

Eric
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Current Project: U47 Inspired
Post by: Volume11 on November 03, 2012, 12:22:30 PM
Here's a little shootout. Unfortunately, the U47 clone is not yet ready so it will not be competing this time around :-(.

Let's proceed. We have one C12 circuit with a CT12 capsule and two Royer circuits with RK12 and RK47 capsules. I have listed the mics in alphabetical order so as not to give anything away although I think it's fairly easy to tell which mic is which.

http://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/sets/lauren-carlson-teenage-dream (http://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/sets/lauren-carlson-teenage-dream)

This will be a semi-blind test because I've attached which mic was which in a text file if you want to know. Have a guess first though  ;).
I liked clip number two the best. Less sibilance, and harshness, but it still has a lot of clarity in the top end. Where did you possition the mics? Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Blue Jinn on November 03, 2012, 12:44:50 PM
I'm with the others. The 47 sounded harsh to me too on her voice. the two 12 clones were pretty close, the TC a bit "fuller" "creamier" (?) to my ears, but not much. Although the comparison isn't quite fair as two different circuits. That said, I like the Royer with the 12 style capsule! Nice work!!!!

Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Gus on November 03, 2012, 12:49:40 PM
Three microphones with one take is not a good test IMO.
Proximity effect and the resulting EQ from different distances and angles make a big difference

You really need to control every thing with a test
Something to try
using a recording set a microphone a measured distance from a fixed repeatable sound source something like a small speaker record the same recording at the same level at measured different distances make sure the capsule is at same spot X,Y,and Z in reference to the speaker make sure nothing else changes in the room to change reflections.
Then do the same with the other microphones
Yes this has issues as well it does not test pop sensitivity and....
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: tonycamp on November 03, 2012, 01:51:05 PM
excuse me if this was said, but i was wondering about the placement of the 3 mics also. I'd bet the #2 clip was the center mic? can that be verified or debunked?

thanx
cool thread
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 03, 2012, 06:03:00 PM
The mics were placed approx 50cm from the singer. Although mic 2 was technically in the centre, it was also placed off-axis (above the singer) by the same amount as the other two so none of the three were directly in line. All three mics have reasonably small headbaskets so I wouldn't say there would be a huge difference with the singer at 50cm. At that distance I doubt there would be much as far as proximity effect either.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 03, 2012, 07:15:03 PM
This may play a part. At half a meter distance you lose some highs and lows. The somewhat scooped characteristic or smiley curve of the CK12 type capsules will compensate and thus have some advantage in this case. The K47 type favors the midrange more which only adds to the relatively strong midrange caused by distance.

But regardless, I'd say it's not unusual for female vocals, especially of this kind, to sound better through a CK12 than a K47.
I'd really like to hear an "intimate" (read: closer) male vocal through those three mikes.
And yes, in that case (close proximity), consecutive takes might work better. This will enable the vocalist to really be "on" the mike and it will allow him to find the sweet spot for each. The 47 may very well surprise us then.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 03, 2012, 07:29:11 PM
Probably the best thing to do is ignore the RK47 at this point in time and focus more on the CT12 vs RK12. I'll be testing the RK47 against my U47 inspired mic soon which will give a closer comparison. I've removed the RK47 from Sound Cloud.

I'll use a male voice for the 47. I agree, in my experience I prefer females with the 12 style and male vocalists with the 47 style. I'm not saying with males I prefer the 47 over the 12, it really depends on the source.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 03, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Quote
I've removed the RK47 from Sound Cloud.

That's a pity. I thought it was quite educational to have all three there. And if the 47 falls short of the others it doesn't mean it's bad.
(BTW, I've added to my earlier post.)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 03, 2012, 07:44:43 PM
**removed**

The ideal methodology to test microphones is probably something that could be discussed in a new thread and not here.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: micaddict on November 03, 2012, 07:55:26 PM
Quote
I'm not saying with males I prefer the 47 over the 12, it really depends on the source.
I agree completely.

Oh, and I prefer real humans over speakers, for this kind of thing, too.
Technical tests (pink noise and such) are another matter.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: tonycamp on November 03, 2012, 08:55:00 PM
There seems to be something special about Tims capsule, I've order 2 of them a while back, i hope they are as good as they seem to be in all these shootouts and comparisons. I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Blue Jinn on November 03, 2012, 11:32:25 PM
Quote
I've removed the RK47 from Sound Cloud.

That's a pity. I thought it was quite educational to have all three there. And if the 47 falls short of the others it doesn't mean it's bad.
(BTW, I've added to my earlier post.)

Yes. It was a nice snapshot comparison of Royers with different capsules.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 06, 2012, 07:04:30 AM
I've been trying a few different tubes this week. Tried my EF14 and was not impressed, sounded quite thin and scratchy. I also tried a few EF800 tubes and they sounded similar but with even less low end. I then tried a couple of Mullard EF80 tubes and surprise, surprise... the EF80 that I got from Oliver over at AMI is easily the best sounding tube I have in this circuit. He must have hand selected it for me :P

I also tried a 408a (6028) following the MK47 schematic i.e. taking the heater from the B+ but for some reason when it was all plugged in the B+ measured at only 9V  :o

I might try the 408a again in a different mic and see if I can get it going. Next time I might try running it with a dedicated 20V heater for simplicity.

Anyway, I'll record a comparison between this U47 inspired mic with the EF80 tube and my Royer with the RK47 capsule as they are kind of similar sounding. I think it'll be interesting to see how they sound right up close.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: ioaudio on November 06, 2012, 09:36:46 AM
Ohm's law - the heater draws much more power from B+ (~50mA) than the anode(~0,55mA) so your psu must be able to supply 105v @ 50ma!

best,
max
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 06, 2012, 05:33:46 PM
Ohm's law - the heater draws much more power from B+ (~50mA) than the anode(~0,55mA) so your psu must be able to supply 105v @ 50ma!

best,
max

At the moment I'm using a Chinese power supply which supplies a 6.3V heater. I might try a voltage tripler and see if the PSU can handle it.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 07, 2012, 08:15:22 AM
Spent some time with this mic at the studio tonight and it sounds pretty great to my ears especially with vocals up close. It is quite noisy though. I've moved the tube to now be above the PCB as opposed to it being under to shorten the distance between the capsule and grid and it seems to be more noisy now than it was before. I've also gone back to the EF14 because I want to give it a good run-in before I judge it too harshly

Anyway... I'll try to get out to the studio again this weekend and record a couple of comparisons between the U47 inspired mic and the Royer with an RK47/

Again, stay tuned...
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: HellfireStudios on November 07, 2012, 08:38:07 AM
Shortening the leads shouldn't ever cause more noise, unless you inadvertently got something dirty during the move...

-James-
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - Listen to the shootout!
Post by: Enchilada on November 15, 2012, 08:42:02 PM
Shortening the leads shouldn't ever cause more noise, unless you inadvertently got something dirty during the move...

-James-

The tube isn't socketed and I've directly soldered the wires onto it so that probably isn't helping. I've bought a socket now and also 100m of silver plated teflon wire so I'll replace all the cheap Jaycar wire I have in there and socked the tube to see if that reduces noise.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style samples coming soon
Post by: Enchilada on December 03, 2012, 07:56:35 AM
I recorded a quick demo song with my U47 inspired mic tonight. I've applied pitch correction to my voice so as not to make anybody's ears bleed, 1176 compression, 100Hz pass filter, lifted the highs above 10KHz a little to give it a little more air.

Overall though, I'm fairly happy with the result seeing as it's rare for me to find a useful mic for my voice IMO.

***WARNING*** Christian lyrics - the vocal starts after a 45 second piano intro.
http://soundcloud.com/kris-osullivan/u47-ef80-beeznees-m7-test (http://soundcloud.com/kris-osullivan/u47-ef80-beeznees-m7-test)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on December 03, 2012, 05:36:09 PM
Something tells me that this will go well with my Dale M7 when it arrives  ;D

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/Krisbo_ench/IMG_20121202_135715.jpg)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: micaddict on December 04, 2012, 06:42:09 AM
Nice demo. I enjoyed that.
The low notes at the beginning are A (110 Hz) so the high pass at 100 Hz makes sense, especially if you fear rumble and such.
I'm not sure if I would prefer the added air to the flat track, but without the latter it's hard to to be sure, of course.
Anyway, thanks for posting. Always nice to hear the actual things in action.  :)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on December 04, 2012, 05:11:24 PM
Nice demo. I enjoyed that.
The low notes at the beginning are A (110 Hz) so the high pass at 100 Hz makes sense, especially if you fear rumble and such.
I'm not sure if I would prefer the added air to the flat track, but without the latter it's hard to to be sure, of course.
Anyway, thanks for posting. Always nice to hear the actual things in action.  :)

I'll post a flat version for comparison purposes.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Spencerleehorton on January 05, 2013, 03:07:54 AM
Nice track, a lot of hiss when the mic comes in, have read through this thread but not seen any photos of pcb and list of components and what schematic your working from?
I am also looking into finding a good low noise pentode for this build.
apparently the 6922 in parallel is good to use for the U47?

I have a U67 built already and im really happy with how it sounds but didnt want to use the EF86 for the U47 build as i have heard it has too much middle frequency.
I also am build the U47 FET, just waiting for some new bodies to be made that im building based around the U47 body but with interchangable headbasket which will have a U67 head as well.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on May 15, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
It's been far too long between builds!

So I've put in an order with element14 to build myself a U47 fet with my Alctron body and a Dale's capsule B-)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on June 21, 2013, 05:24:08 AM
Nice track, a lot of hiss when the mic comes in, have read through this thread but not seen any photos of pcb and list of components and what schematic your working from?
I am also looking into finding a good low noise pentode for this build.
apparently the 6922 in parallel is good to use for the U47?

I have a U67 built already and im really happy with how it sounds but didnt want to use the EF86 for the U47 build as i have heard it has too much middle frequency.
I also am build the U47 FET, just waiting for some new bodies to be made that im building based around the U47 body but with interchangable headbasket which will have a U67 head as well.

Sorry bud, I missed this post. I designed and etched my own PCB from the schematic over at AMI. I've got a couple of those pentodes but the trick is being able to supply enough current to the heater.

I'vve almost completed my U47 FET build. When I'm done I'll post a comparison between it and the AMI inspired U47.
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on August 23, 2013, 09:03:39 AM
Here it is! The long awaited comparison between my U47 and my U47FET. A little Pultec, a little 1176, a touch of reverb and a GSSL on the bus. Both takes use my Alctron MP-100 pre (essentially a UA twin finity) with 100% tube. Don't hate on Lauren's singing. She was ill when we recorded these.

First thing I notice, the U47FET is far quieter than the U47. I've etched the PCB for the 47 myself but I'm thinking of scrapping it and re-doing it over air to try and get the noise down. Tried a few different tubes and that didn't help with noise so I put it down to the PCB.

Overall, I'm happy with the sound of both of them. The U47 sounds fuller and creamier to my ears while the 47FET sounds more aggressive and present. As a reminder, the U47 uses a Beesneez M7 capsule and the 47FET is using the Cathedral Pipes M7 capsule.

Which do you guys prefer?

https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47 (https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47)
https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47-fet (https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47-fet)
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: poctop on August 23, 2013, 10:35:59 AM
Here it is! The long awaited comparison between my U47 and my U47FET. A little Pultec, a little 1176, a touch of reverb and a GSSL on the bus. Both takes use my Alctron MP-100 pre (essentially a UA twin finity) with 100% tube. Don't hate on Lauren's singing. She was ill when we recorded these.

First thing I notice, the U47FET is far quieter than the U47. I've etched the PCB for the 47FET myself but I'm thinking of scrapping it and re-doing it over air to try and get the noise down. Tried a few different tubes and that didn't help with noise so I put it down to the PCB.

Overall, I'm happy with the sound of both of them. The U47 sounds fuller and creamier to my ears while the 47FET sounds more aggressive and present. As a reminder, the U47 uses a Beesneez M7 capsule and the 47FET is using the Cathedral Pipes M7 capsule.

Which do you guys prefer?

https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47 (https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47)
https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47-fet (https://soundcloud.com/fat-wombat/poker-face-u47-fet)


Thanks for taking the time to do this , Great Song , GReat Voice , Great Guy sitting on the desk,  i would be really curious to hear the BZ in the 47 FET also,

from my own experience I found  that the 47 capsule in the FET 47 rendered better the colour of the 47FET,


Quote
First thing I notice, the U47FET is far quieter than the U47. I've etched the PCB for the 47FET myself but I'm thinking of scrapping it and re-doing it over air to try and get the noise down.

Do you mean that you etch your 47 board cause etching the 47FET pcb would rather be tough  ;),

best,
Dan ,
 
Title: Re: Enchilada's Mic Builds - U47 style sound sample up!!!
Post by: Enchilada on August 23, 2013, 11:22:27 AM
Do you mean that you etch your 47 board cause etching the 47FET pcb would rather be tough  ;)

Lolz, imagine doing the 47FET over air  :o

I've edited my post. Cheers mate. If I get really bored one weekend I might switch the capsules but no promises.