GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Preamplifiers => Topic started by: [silent:arts] on December 29, 2012, 10:50:58 AM

Title: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 29, 2012, 10:50:58 AM
number three of [silent:arts] microphone preamplifiers, number two in the German Legends family:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X-AngleView.jpg)

based on the Neumann MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER PMV 70
[ original schematic (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70_Schematic.pdf) | original (german language) data-sheet (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70_Data.pdf) ]

NOTE: the PMV70X is NOT API500 COMPATIBLE, a GDIY511 Rack is required

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X-SideView.jpg)

Full Kits are available in the White Market (https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39570.0)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on December 29, 2012, 10:51:31 AM
Documents:

PMV70X schematic
PMV70X PCBs (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X_rev02-PCBs.pdf)
PMV70X parts list (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X_rev02-PartsList.pdf)

PMV70X HiZ plug in (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X-HiZ.pdf)
(you can use any HiZ plug in, this document is for the one that comes with the PMV70X kit)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Joechris on December 29, 2012, 06:58:38 PM
I dont know much about this pre amp, could you tell us a little about its history, sound refrences and so..? That goes for the 560 as well.
J
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 30, 2013, 03:08:47 AM
Received some brand new MO6 from Pier (http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=33576.0) yesterday,
a very nice replacement for OA12/20 DOAs:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/MO6-PMV70X.jpg)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kato on January 30, 2013, 07:58:44 AM

Oh hell yeah. I'm in for one.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 30, 2013, 11:56:44 AM
Just shipped out to a forum member to check it out:

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X-Proto02.jpg)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70X-Proto03.jpg)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kato on January 30, 2013, 04:04:54 PM
I dont know much about this pre amp, could you tell us a little about its history, sound refrences and so..? That goes for the 560 as well.
J

The PMV 70 was the precursor to the Neumann V476b, if that helps at all.
V476b = Super quiet, high gain (76dB,) beautiful sound.  I presume the PMV 70 is in the same league.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 16, 2013, 10:48:01 AM
Found the Neumann Katalog 301 from 1975,
with more data for the PMV70. 8)

PMV70 Datasheet (german) (http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/PMV70_Data.pdf)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 01, 2013, 07:11:33 AM
Received my final order of PCBs 8)

(http://www.silentarts.de/DIY/PMV70X/FinalPCBs.jpg)

now, due to the non existing interest here I don't know what to do.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kato on March 01, 2013, 09:27:07 AM

now, due to the non existing interest here I don't know what to do.

I'm a little surprised.  Come on people. Mic pres do not get any better than this.

What's scaring people off?  The non-standard op-amp pinout?  Difficult to source transformers? People secretly holding out for the V476b? (which probably won't happen if these don't sell...)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 01, 2013, 09:46:03 AM
Input transformer is a problem - I have them brand new from Haufe, which is expensive.
The Output transformer and the DOA can be found on many Neumann modules.
However, I have enough too (DOAs due to age without warranty).
Soon I will have APP replacement DOAs as well 8)

Most transistors are hard to get / discontinued. I have stock.

But kato, it is just Neumann, not Neve API SSL  :o
(and a little bit expensive compared)
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: dandeurloo on March 01, 2013, 11:33:55 AM
I think the problem is not many people have heard them.  I don't remember any time I would have heard or used them.  It does look interesting however. 
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: dmp on March 01, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
Quote
What's scaring people off?
Have these been auditioned and tested in a recording environment, all the features work, and are going to be really awesome if built?
Have you used them enough to know they don't have any problems? Do they have good headroom? No pops, clicks, strange distortions? Looking for real use evaluation before release, not just testing with a signal generator. Anyway, that would help me. I'm really tempted.
I have built a bunch of awesome preamps and some that are just mediocre. I want to add to the awesome list.


Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: mulletchuck on March 01, 2013, 05:11:54 PM
Can you post some audio clips of it being used on drum overheads/guitars/etc?
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: shabtek on March 01, 2013, 05:15:08 PM
don't need any more pres






but still curious....
lotsa dough for the iron.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 02, 2013, 06:35:43 AM
Have these been auditioned and tested in a recording environment, all the features work, and are going to be really awesome if built?
yes

Have you used them enough to know they don't have any problems? Do they have good headroom? No pops, clicks, strange distortions? Looking for real use evaluation before release, not just testing with a signal generator. Anyway, that would help me. I'm really tempted.
they have been out in a studio for testing, resulting in pre-ordering two pieces.
(comments on facebook somewhere)

Now, why not test it yourself? I happily ship you the prototype (and one OV560 to compare) for testing.
But you need to do the soundsampels for mulletchuck  ;)
I will pay shipping to you, you pay shipping back to me.
However, you need a GDIY511 Rack for this.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: zayance on March 02, 2013, 07:31:18 AM
Quote
now, due to the non existing interest here I don't know what to do.

Perhaps propose in some other forums as well??

Money is a little bit the prob here for me these days, and too many unfinished projects, if not i would have two of these and two OV560.
Time will tell.

Nice job nonetheless Volker.


PS: Send me a quote anyway please (i have for the OV560), i keep these so when i want to take the plunge and grab a new toy. Thanks
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Tajmoben on March 02, 2013, 09:42:33 AM
Now, why not test it yourself? I happily ship you the prototype (and one OV560 to compare) for testing.
But you need to do the soundsampels for mulletchuck  ;)
I will pay shipping to you, you pay shipping back to me.
However, you need a GDIY511 Rack for this.

I'd be willing to make some clips of these for the chance to try them in my studio.

I've got a pair of the 51x Jensamps which I love, and I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on the OV560 for a while, but now that the the PMV70 is available I'm not sure which one would suit my needs the best.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 27, 2013, 07:15:34 AM
Received 16 more MO6 from Pier 8)
Next 80 will be SMD.

Will order and pack parts for 10 PMV70X Kits soon.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Toure14 on April 10, 2013, 05:20:25 PM
what will b the final cost of your kit?
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on April 11, 2013, 09:39:11 AM
what will b the final cost of your kit?
Haven't calculated yet.
I guess a full kit incl. transformers will be nearly the same like the [available] OV560.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kvothe on July 04, 2013, 03:45:02 PM
any news when we can start ordering these?
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 04, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
Will try to do a few part kits this month.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: buildafriend on July 06, 2013, 09:11:35 PM
24V rails only or 16V too?
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 07, 2013, 03:43:28 AM
24V only
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on July 11, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
10 Kits are packed. 8 ready to ship.
Title: Re: [FEELER] PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kvothe on July 30, 2013, 09:41:17 AM
Got mine today, looks awesome!
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: oceres on November 25, 2013, 02:41:08 AM
Thanks so much for this kit. My brother finished building it last weekend. Works great, highly recommended!

This far tested DI Bass and oh man, so good. Need to do more recordings. I just adore these Haufe transformers! The best!
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: kongelyd on March 22, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
Hi, i want one pmv70 shipped to Norway. No need for vat
Because i will have to pay that in import
Best regards
Kongelyd
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on March 22, 2014, 01:40:19 PM
Please mail me your shipping address to sales [at] 51xAido [dot] com
You have a 51X Alliance Rack?
Note: this won't work in a standard API500 Rack.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: rjuly on May 15, 2014, 06:53:58 AM
Would anyone like to describe how the 560 sounds compares to the PMV70? Obviously 10 dB more of gain, but what else characterizes the differences? I imagine that the 70 retains all of the virtues of the 560 - high headroom, smooth, clean and linear. Has what I would call a 'stiff' attack envelope - by which I don't mean 'brittle' . I mean that is maintains the integrity of the signal envelope, and does not compress it overly much. What compression it does impart is smooth and transparent.  So far the 560 is my favorite of the kits I have built. If the 70 is the same as the 560, only with more gain, then I will be satisfied, but I am curious if it has any other traits that differ.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Mulmany on January 25, 2016, 10:59:28 PM
Quick question about the stop pins for the Grayhill. Which ones for the correct rotation. Just want to double check.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 26, 2016, 12:16:19 AM
11 & 12. Jeff did a nice drawing:
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Mulmany on January 26, 2016, 08:50:37 PM
Thank you for bringing this to life. Sounds awesome on bass DI, all I have recorded though it since finishing late last night.

(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/Mulmany/Mobile%20Uploads/20160126_012041.jpg)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa417/Mulmany/Mobile%20Uploads/20160126_161850_1.jpg)
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Scimitar on October 01, 2017, 10:11:00 AM
I thought that I should post a quick update on this thread, now that I have had the opportunity to do some work with the PMV70X in the studio.
Volker has produced another real gem!
I have been using it on female vocals and acoustic instruments where I have found that it absolutely shines - silky smooth but with lovely clarity at the same time. This pre has become my first choice for anything that is going to be in focus in the mix.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 02, 2018, 04:15:12 PM
Hey Volker,

kits arrived, looking great so far!

Could it be that the schematic link is missing from the first post?

Cheers

Moshe
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 02, 2018, 04:50:16 PM
Hey Moshe,

can you believe you are the first recognizing this?
Never found the time to draw a clean schematic.
You can use the original schematic, part numbers etc are the same.
If needed I can mail you my ugly production schematic, just let me know.

Happy soldering!
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 03, 2018, 11:25:33 AM
Hey Volker,

That's funny...^^
I think I will just use the original then.
Again great fun to build so far.

Cheers
Moshe
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 03, 2018, 02:24:51 PM
I would really appreciate a little help with a noob question.

According to the schematic R45 should be selected, but according to which parameters?

If I understand correctly it is in charge of the negative feedback for the OA12, so do I just use R40 and tweak it till there is no oscillation?

Sorry for the noobness.. :P

Cheers

Moshe
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 03, 2018, 02:34:05 PM
While I added R45 to the PCB we select to not use it  ;D
[If you are crazy enough you could use it to adjust the gain range of R40 (together with R41)]
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 03, 2018, 02:38:33 PM
Thanks!

Does that indeed mean that I only tweak R40 to a point were I have no oscilation? ::)

Or in my noob words, why isn't R40 a fixed value..
Trying to get my head around that.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 03, 2018, 02:55:47 PM
Do you have any oscillation? You shouldn't have any.

R40 is your dB adjust potentiometer, 1K pos. log.
With a fixed value you wouldn't have the 8dB fine regulation, only the steps from the gain switch.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 03, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
Thanks!

I think I get it now...
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 15, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
Hey there,

out of curiosity, where does the HiZ board sit in the circuit?
Does the audio go through the mic input trafo?

Thanks
Moshe
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on January 16, 2018, 12:02:42 AM
Yes, the HiZ board is just before the input transformer.
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: lkipod on January 16, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
Nice!
So with a transformer HiZ plugin the signal goes through 3 transformers, now I have to try that... ;)
Thanks for the info
Moshe
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: Scimitar on February 03, 2018, 02:13:36 PM
There is only one thing better than a PMV70X .......
Two PMV70X's!!

All assembled and passed the smoke test! Now for some audio testing, although I know what to expect, having had the first one for about a year. These pre's are magnificent.
Really low noise floor, bucket loads of gain if you need it, great articulation and detail, but yet so smooth.

Great work Volker!
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: [silent:arts] on February 04, 2018, 03:14:25 AM
Thanks for the kind words Bruce  8)
Title: Re: PMV70X (Neumann PMV70 in GDIY51X format)
Post by: bacteria on May 07, 2018, 12:02:16 PM
Some photos of my finished PMV70X unit!!
Can't wait to test it!! But firstly i have to finish the 51x power supply.  :P :P

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849594302119&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849594302119&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849544302124&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849544302124&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849627635449&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849627635449&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849600968785&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849600968785&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849644302114&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2026849644302114&set=pcb.2026849727635439&type=3&theater)