GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Mixers/Monitoring Systems => Topic started by: remsouille on March 02, 2017, 04:59:36 AM

Title: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on March 02, 2017, 04:59:36 AM
EDIT: this project turned into a full scale neve console build. yup.
Hi folks,
I'm about to start building a Neve inspired monitor mixer to be able to monitor my tape returns.
My Amek BCIII is not in-line and until then, I managed to monitor my 8 track A80 with unused line-in channels. Not the most intuitive monitoring system, and now with that 16 track 2" coming in next week ( 8) ), the monitor mixer becomes a necessity.

I'm planning to build a neve 8014ish console in the next couple (dozens) of years, so I figured, let's do that monitor mixer right, so I can fit it in the big one when (if it ever) happens, and also be able to use it as 16 additional inputs at mixdown.

I'm going all passive summing, 70's neve style, with 1272s and everything.
What I need is transformer inputs to unbalance the signal,  mute switches, PFL switches, faders (P&G 1520), pan pots with disengage switches, and 2 aux sends with pre fade/post pan switch. I really want the post pan feature for cue purposes, so both the musician and I can listen to the same mix right away. Time saving.
I'm only splitting the signal once, for the aux sends, so I shouldn't need an amplifying stage, should I? Or are the aux pot and the fader going to suck up too much volume?
I came up with this, and would appreciate if anyone could have a look and tell me if i'm missing something. Note that I'm really going for the Neve way of summing, so I really don't want to improve anything over the way they would have done it.

EDIT: Ok, I realize now how naïve I was, thinking I could make this work without gain stages.. I'll come up with something a little more realistic in the next couple of days... I will probably follow the 1883 routing module schematic and stuff a couple of BA183s in there...
(http://i.imgur.com/oG4G1ll.jpg)
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 09, 2017, 06:13:51 PM
I don't think you are too far away. The 31267 gives you a low Z source so you can use a 1K fader. The rest should be OK.  The only thing I would not do is switch the bus with the police relay. Instead,  switch the police after the first stage of the 1272.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 10, 2017, 03:00:54 AM
I don't think you are too far away. The 31267 gives you a lot Z source so you can use a 1K fader. The rest should be OK.  The only thing I would not do is switch the bus with the police relay. Instead,  switch the police after the first stage of the 1272.

Cheers

Ian

Thanks for your input, Ian!  I just talked to Geoff Tanner, he said that I should stick to the 1883 schematic and use 2 ba183am, and that I couldn't keep loads hanging to the fader, or the 31267...
I suppose that would also improve the crosstalk and noise figures, wouldn't it ?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 11, 2017, 05:44:31 AM
Crosstalk depends on the source impedance driving the pan pot so Ba183 after the fader can provide that.  There are no crosstalk issues for the auxiliary sends as rhey are mono. The ba183 will add a little noise but not enough to worry about. The BCM10/2 uses a schematic similar to yours.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 11, 2017, 07:21:58 AM
Crosstalk depends on the source impedance driving the pan pot so Ba183 after the fader can provide that.  There are no crosstalk issues for the auxiliary sends as rhea are mono. The ba183 will add a little noise but not enough to worry about. The BCM10/2 uses a schematic similar to yours.

Cheers

Ian

You don't happen to have the 1895 schematic, do you?  What you're saying is that I could skip the input amp and just drive the output with a single BA183 right after the fader?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 11, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
Here you go:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_n67A1hN3qtUi1IZHFJUHBidW8/view?usp=drivesdk

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 12, 2017, 04:22:23 AM
Thank you Ian, this is very interesting.  So if I get it right, the 1895 takes an unbalanced output from the Input module and then that ba106 is there  to carry the output loads, right?
But waht if I really want a 31267 Input trafo and 1520 faders? How do I load them properly . I'm sure this is not very complicated, but still over my head as of now. I need education :)

Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 13, 2017, 01:03:31 PM
From the schematic it looks like it takes the unbalanced output  via the ba106 and sends it to the fader. Post fade buses, including pan, are fed direct from the fader.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 13, 2017, 01:09:02 PM
From the schematic it looks like it takes the unbalanced output  via the ba106 and sends it to the fader. Post fade buses, including pan, are fed direct from the fader.

Cheers

Ian

But doesn't the fader have a HI-Z output? How can it drive all this? Does the BCM10 have the usual P&G 1520 10K faders? I presume yes...
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 14, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
But doesn't the fader have a HI-Z output? How can it drive all this? Does the BCM10 have the usual P&G 1520 10K faders? I presume yes...

The 1520 comes in various values including 600 ohms. If a 1k version was used, the fader plus the pan pot and auxes would probably be close to 600 ohms but I am not sure if the emitter follower  can drive that low a load. The worst case source impedance of a 1k pot is 250 ohms which is plenty  low enough  to drive the pan pot.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 14, 2017, 05:42:58 PM
The 1520 comes in various values including 600 ohms. If a 1k version was used, the fader plus the pan pot and auxes would probably be close to 600 ohms but I am not sure if the emitter follower  can drive that low a load. The worst case source impedance of a 1k pot is 250 ohms which is plenty  low enough  to drive the pan pot.

Cheers

Ian

Well I've never seen 1K 1520s, and Dan Alexander doesn't have any, so as far as availability goes, I guess I'm stuck with 10Ks. Which means I should in fact need an output stage... right?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 15, 2017, 03:04:51 PM
Well I've never seen 1K 1520s, and Dan Alexander doesn't have any, so as far as availability goes, I guess I'm stuck with 10Ks. Which means I should in fact need an output stage... right?

600 ohms ones do exist, there are some on eBay right now.  Do you have to use 2520s?

If you want to have 10dB in hand on the fader then you definitely need an amp. I think it would be a better design with a post fader amp.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 15, 2017, 05:09:31 PM
I think they (600ohm 1520 faders) were  typically used in the monitor section before the days of in line consoles. The tape return entered via a 31267 10k:600 transformer and was fed direct to the fader. The fader  fed a pan pot and then the monitor buses.

I think they may also have been used in the BCM10/2 mixer in a similar configuration.

Cheers

Ian
I'm certain you actually wanted to post this in here, right? ;)
This is great! This means I can go 31267>600ohm fader> BA183>pan pot>outputs, right?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 16, 2017, 11:56:41 AM
I'm certain you actually wanted to post this in here, right? ;)
This is great! This means I can go 31267>600ohm fader> BA183>pan pot>outputs, right?

Yup.

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 16, 2017, 12:15:39 PM
Great! Let's start building some ba283s, then !
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 17, 2017, 10:57:11 AM
And what if I used a 10K:10K input transformer? Wouldn't this allow me to use a more available 10K 1520 without having to change anything else in the circuit?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 18, 2017, 07:35:57 AM
And what if I used a 10K:10K input transformer? Wouldn't this allow me to use a more available 10K 1520 without having to change anything else in the circuit?

The problem with a 10k fader is that the pan pot now loads it too much. With the pan pot hard panned it presents a load of about 1.5k ( two parallel 10k in parallel with 2k). If you want to use a 10k fader you need to increase the pan pot value to 50k, change the padding resistors from 2k2 to 11k and raise the bus feed resistors to 47k. These are the values I use on my tube mixer auxes returns.

Cheers

Uan
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 19, 2017, 06:58:39 AM
The problem with a 10k fader is that the pan pot now loads it too much.
But doesn't the ba283 between the fader and the pan pot make up for that?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: hitchhiker on March 19, 2017, 11:44:35 AM
If I understand it right, there is no need for an amp there if you use a 600 or 1000 ohm fader.
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 19, 2017, 11:59:30 AM
If I understand it right, there is no need for an amp there if you use a 600 or 1000 ohm fader.

I think you're right.  No need for amplification with a 600ohm fader. But if I were to use a 10K fader, the amp would take care of the pan pot load, right?
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on March 20, 2017, 09:57:35 AM
But doesn't the ba283 between the fader and the pan pot make up for that?

Yes, I just mentioned it so you could see how it could still be done passively if you wanted to.

Cheers

ian
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on March 21, 2017, 09:41:39 AM
Yes, I just mentioned it so you could see how it could still be done passively if you wanted to.

Cheers

ian

Indeed I see! Thanks Ian! Going passive was my first intention, but as things went on, I figured it would be great to add a little spice in here! A bit more of a challenge for me, and hopefully I'll learn a bit more in the process!

I should get the BA283 cards any day now, and I just ordered the parts for them from Mouser. I also ordered a bunch of NOS Motorola 3055s. Those may not make a difference, but well.. at least the markings look cooler  8) I have yet to decide whether I'll be using BC184Cs or a substitute.. I had a nightmare episode with MSPA18s in my 6x1290 build a couple of years back... Things went back to normal when I swapped them for 184s... (yes, the MSPAs where reversed)... that puzzle is yet to be sold...

I still need to figure out what is going to happen between the input transformers and the BA283 cards.. There is so much to learn..

Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on May 02, 2017, 10:43:06 AM
Ok here's a little update!
I'm almost done with the BA283 cards, thanks to Avdo for the PCB's and API for the support and heatsinks!
(http://i.imgur.com/Eciuk03.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/d3w6cMn.jpg?1)
I'm still missing the 4K7/5K trimmer, actually I'm having a hard time finding one that fits the board. I'm open to suggestions on this  ;)

Today, I started work on the buss bars (Stereo out, 2 cues and PFL).  Next step is ordering the feed thru insulating terminals!
(http://i.imgur.com/5UJyQkF.jpg)
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: sam system-d on May 02, 2017, 12:00:04 PM
Looks great !
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on May 26, 2017, 11:24:03 AM
Today, I finished the bussbars! Quite fun to build!
(http://i.imgur.com/uTlE4zE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FuhSbE2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ekaUReT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AGXuLQm.jpg)

I also drew up the routing panel layout, based off the 1883, but with only two busses and two cue sends:
(http://i.imgur.com/R1vx8ML.jpg)
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on June 10, 2017, 05:05:19 PM
Hi guys, quick update as I just started working on the frames that will hold the BA283 cards with their inductor load:
(http://i.imgur.com/myz5eg7.jpg)

I also got my 1520 faders from Dan Alexander. I had to clean them inside out and they're all smooth now, but I must say I'm a bit disappointed by the top plates, as they're not all matched. Some are glossy, some are matte, some even look purple-ish. Maybe I'll manufacture some new ones, we'll see!
(http://i.imgur.com/gYTIMD3.jpg)
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: remsouille on December 15, 2018, 03:14:38 PM
Hey guys!
Quick update, this project is not dead at all, as a matter of fact it is more alive than ever! The routing modules are being built right now, and I'll be starting the metal work in january, I'll keep you posted with pictures asap!!
Rémi
Title: Re: Neve 16 channel monitor mixer build
Post by: ruffrecords on December 16, 2018, 04:31:50 AM
Cool. Looking forward to seeing those modules.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on December 16, 2018, 07:15:42 AM
Hey guys!
Since this is a pretty big project,  I teamed up with  our fellow groupdiyer Sasarist, whose company Beebird is helping me with the pcb design, assembly and metalwork for the modules. Big thanks to him, his contribution is invaluable!

To stay true to the neve design, we finally decided to stick to the original 1883 schematic, with two gain stages but only two groups and two auxes. We also decided to make it all on a single pcb with a card edge connector.  It makes for a much easier build, kind of like a 500 series module, with the pcb and transformers attached to a metal L-bracket.
The face plates are ready and look absolutely gorgeous:
(https://i.imgur.com/vU5PJ99.jpg)

More info on the pcb design very soon...
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: john12ax7 on December 16, 2018, 11:24:39 PM
Where are you getting the metal work and faceplates done? They look nice.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on December 17, 2018, 03:00:30 AM
You do realise copying the Neve logo could be a copyright infringement.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on December 18, 2018, 03:34:30 PM
You do realise copying the Neve logo could be a copyright infringement.

Cheers

Ian

Which is why we didn't ;)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: r2d2 on December 19, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
Hey guys!
Since this is a pretty big project,  I teamed up with  our fellow groupdiyer Sasarist, whose company Beebird is helping me with the pcb design, assembly and metalwork for the modules. Big thanks to him, his contribution is invaluable!

To stay true to the neve design, we finally decided to stick to the original 1883 schematic, with two gain stages but only two groups and two auxes. We also decided to make it all on a single pcb with a card edge connector.  It makes for a much easier build, kind of like a 500 series module, with the pcb and transformers attached to a metal L-bracket.
The face plates are ready and look absolutely gorgeous:
(https://i.imgur.com/vU5PJ99.jpg)

More info on the pcb design very soon...

   W  O  W     :o
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Rob Flinn on December 22, 2018, 05:49:10 AM
DO you have a source & part number for the insulating terminal pegs things that you use on your bus bars please ?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on December 28, 2018, 03:33:19 PM
DO you have a source & part number for the insulating terminal pegs things that you use on your bus bars please ?

Hi Rob,
Here they are:
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/534-11075 (https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/534-11075)
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/534-11155 (https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/534-11155)
They are ridiculously expensive, I have yet to find a more wallet-friendly option!

There's been some progress on the routing modules, here's a little tease:
(https://i.imgur.com/gXdzdQy.jpg)

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 03, 2019, 09:26:49 AM
More teasing  8) 8) 8) 8)
(https://imgur.com/DFXkPbh.png)
(https://imgur.com/pxiUXzg.png)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ravachol on February 03, 2019, 10:29:04 PM
Nicely done! If you plan to do a production run, it would be such a blessing. I could use about thirty or so of these units.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: dbelazy on March 11, 2019, 05:31:17 PM
Wow, great work!! Cant wait for your updates. Now I want to start the same Project  ::) But I should stickt to some more beginner friendly Projects  :P Just finished two Soundskulptor EQ's..
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: r2d2 on April 26, 2019, 05:42:07 AM

Crazy , Super Nice , great work!!    :o :o :o
Cant wait for your updates !!
Now I want to start similarProject  ……...
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on May 10, 2019, 04:50:24 PM
Almost
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: rbuskov on May 13, 2019, 07:21:55 AM
Where are you getting the metal work and faceplates done? They look nice.

I'm wondering about the same thing?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on May 13, 2019, 04:21:13 PM
I'm wondering about the same thing?

I made them.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: rbuskov on May 14, 2019, 04:17:59 AM
I made them.

How? Are they powder coated or just painted? How did you do the print?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on May 14, 2019, 06:01:41 AM
How? Are they powder coated or just painted? How did you do the print?5
Powder coating and N fronts are not good idea.We use som hi quality industrial paints.Print is UV print
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: warpie on May 14, 2019, 11:21:13 AM
Powder coating and N fronts are not good idea.We use som hi quality industrial paints.Print is UV print

Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by "N fronts"?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on May 14, 2019, 01:11:58 PM
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by "N fronts"?
Neve mate.

cheers
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: rbuskov on May 15, 2019, 04:12:02 AM
Thanks for the info.

Powder coating and N fronts are not good idea.

How come?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: r2d2 on May 15, 2019, 07:02:31 AM
Only "as well" ….

anybody made some test ( also "virtual" ) about " THD"  and signal to noise ratio
for a classic 16 or 24 ch  to  L-R master bus ?
cheers

PS :
just to avoid unpleasant sound surprises….
(after so lot of work…. and money too..)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on May 16, 2019, 04:38:51 AM
Thanks for the info.

How come?
First is the colour problem, powder coating has very limited palette to chose from.Second is overall look , satin gray blue paint look much better to me.I spend a enormous amount of time to find right one , and at the end it turn out, that Mercedes satin paint was the best.

Cheers
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on June 05, 2019, 06:24:17 PM
Only "as well" ….

anybody made some test ( also "virtual" ) about " THD"  and signal to noise ratio
for a classic 16 or 24 ch  to  L-R master bus ?
cheers

PS :
just to avoid unpleasant sound surprises….
(after so lot of work…. and money too..)

Well we're doing everything by the Great Neve Book, so I guess THD and SNR should be pretty good :) Not trying to reinvent the wheel, here !
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on June 05, 2019, 06:39:45 PM
Sorry everyone, it's been a while since I posted anything, been awfully busy at the studio! As Sasa showed you, there's been quite a bit of progress on the tape return modules side... well actually, they're DONE! I just got them today! And they look and feel stellar! As you can see, they're just missing their 31267 input transformers, which they'll be getting very soon!
(https://i.imgur.com/5WTUTSG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5AmwubN.jpg)
I'm also in the process of finishing the CAD files for the bucket panels of the console, they'll be in production before the end of the week! This is getting real, I'm so excited!
(https://i.imgur.com/9wbUG3Z.png)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: r2d2 on June 06, 2019, 06:02:56 AM
Well we're doing everything by the Great Neve Book, so I guess THD and SNR should be pretty good :) Not trying to reinvent the wheel, here !

The project is so Extremely "porn"…..   :o
if it sound as the original (...as expected) , is 10X  Extremely "porn"  :o
cheers
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on June 09, 2019, 04:57:28 AM
The project is so Extremely "porn"…..   :o
if it sound as the original (...as expected) , is 10X  Extremely "porn"  :o
cheers
Actually , I test modules and they sound beyond my expectations.My biggest concern were our custom inductors , but it tourn out that they  "affect" sound in a same way as geniune, one which are wound on smaler core.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Anthon on June 09, 2019, 08:12:45 AM
Building a console of this size is quite an undertaking! But if you actually manage to do it, then you can call yourself a guru of DIY audio  ;D
Keep up the good work!

I also have plans to build a console eventually, but something more simple, like API 1604.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on June 22, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
Hey all!
Last week, I got the first bucket panels from the laser shop, so I did a first assembly test to see how everything fits. And it all works perfectly!!
(https://i.imgur.com/qPFprMX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SYUbKLh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Dzxy1Ug.jpg)
Couldn't be happier with the results, I'm ordering the rest of the panels this week-end!! Then they need to be tapped and countersunk. I'm also about to order the ISEP hardware for making sure all the modules will slide in flawlessly.
When I get all this, I can start assembling and wiring the frame up  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: mjrippe on June 22, 2019, 11:16:02 AM
That is dead sexy!  And I like your taste in furniture as well  ;D
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on June 22, 2019, 11:17:56 AM
That is dead sexy!  And I like your taste in furniture as well  ;D

Haha thank you! Well, the house was quite messy, but thanks for the compliment anyway  ;D
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: zamproject on June 22, 2019, 07:56:06 PM
Hello

Impressive.
look great !

Any automation planed ? let me know...

Best
Zam
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Rob Flinn on June 26, 2019, 06:19:53 PM
I'm interested to know about the output transformers it appears you have wound.    I am looking at the split bobbin, is one side secondary & the other primary ?  Looking at CJ's winding docs for the 1166 it appears that there are 2 primary layers & 3 secondaries.   

See here
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/0e07cc59-2f5a-481f-967d-12c7363b86fa/downloads/1ctuvlm4f_626108.png?ver=1559636350707
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on June 27, 2019, 03:40:44 AM
I'm interested to know about the output transformers it appears you have wound.    I am looking at the split bobbin, is one side secondary & the other primary ?  Looking at CJ's winding docs for the 1166 it appears that there are 2 primary layers & 3 secondaries.   

See here
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/0e07cc59-2f5a-481f-967d-12c7363b86fa/downloads/1ctuvlm4f_626108.png?ver=1559636350707

Hi Robb, Those are not LO1166, they are T1310 inductors. This inductor was used at neve to load the BA183/283 cards when no balanced output was required. A traditionnal neve switching unit would have 1 BA183 before the fader,  loaded with such an inductor, and another BA183 before the buss sends, loaded with an LO1166 to use as a direct output.
Those modules in the pictures are just  tape return switching units for the right side of the console, so they don't need direct ouptuts, hence the two T1310 inductors. As a matter of fact, the left side, 8 buss 4aux switching units we're about to build won't have LO1166 for direct ouput either, as I don't have the need for them. I'd much rather use a buss.
On a side note,  you can see on the pictures  that the modules are not fitted with an input transformer yet. I'll be using OEP 31267 transformers.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Rob Flinn on June 27, 2019, 04:16:56 AM
Right understand now.  Thanks.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on June 27, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
That Mercedes paint that was chosen, that's just for the pre-NAD RAF look, right? BSC colors are pretty difficult to find stateside, but in Broadcast Series land I managed to find 640 Extra Dark Sea Grey stocked at Klass Kote. Epoxy spray, with a catalyzing wait time, looks like a good candidate with an HVLP gun...or just bring it to a body shop if they can mix it. I did find a Chevrolet color that sort of comes close, but...nah. I'd be interested in hearing more about what your panel painting process was.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sasarist on July 04, 2019, 01:41:43 PM
That Mercedes paint that was chosen, that's just for the pre-NAD RAF look, right? BSC colors are pretty difficult to find stateside, but in Broadcast Series land I managed to find 640 Extra Dark Sea Grey stocked at Klass Kote. Epoxy spray, with a catalyzing wait time, looks like a good candidate with an HVLP gun...or just bring it to a body shop if they can mix it. I did find a Chevrolet color that sort of comes close, but...nah. I'd be interested in hearing more about what your panel painting process was.
Well ,I first start with those UK military painth online shops.I bought Extra Dark Sea Gray and few more , but I was not blown away, so to speak.They were ok , but difference from geniune Neve colour was obvious, and satin was more glossy than satin.I ended up in small car painth shop with my painthing guy , and after few hours of mixing and trying different mixtures , I found cool looking colour.It is also not a exactly the same as geniune , but fact is that it look very nice and quality is great.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on July 08, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Right....there’s no way to really nail it without knowing what the original process was. Maybe Ian has an idea.

I’ve been looking high and low for some buss channel extrusion.  Spoke with Vero and I think they’re in process of figuring out how to do a short run of single width strip. Thinking about having an original spec multi channel milled but am not excited about the cost. Any leads on the right extrusion? I suppose it doesn’t necessarily have to be satin anodized aluminum. I recall somewhere a picture of the channel you guys devised, but the Keystone feedthru pins were super pricey. Cambion definitely does not have the right size (~.750” pin to pin, .136” hole, .250” above the panel) without a 2500 MOQ.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on July 09, 2019, 12:50:37 PM
Right....there’s no way to really nail it without knowing what the original process was. Maybe Ian has an idea.

I’ve been looking high and low for some buss channel extrusion.  Spoke with Vero and I think they’re in process of figuring out how to do a short run of single width strip. Thinking about having an original spec multi channel milled but am not excited about the cost. Any leads on the right extrusion? I suppose it doesn’t necessarily have to be satin anodized aluminum. I recall somewhere a picture of the channel you guys devised, but the Keystone feedthru pins were super pricey. Cambion definitely does not have the right size (~.750” pin to pin, .136” hole, .250” above the panel) without a 2500 MOQ.

I don't know the answers to these off the top of my head I could ask on the Neve old boys forum if you like. So I ask the right questions(s), exactly what do you want to know?

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on July 12, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Right....there’s no way to really nail it without knowing what the original process was. Maybe Ian has an idea.

I’ve been looking high and low for some buss channel extrusion.  Spoke with Vero and I think they’re in process of figuring out how to do a short run of single width strip. Thinking about having an original spec multi channel milled but am not excited about the cost. Any leads on the right extrusion? I suppose it doesn’t necessarily have to be satin anodized aluminum. I recall somewhere a picture of the channel you guys devised, but the Keystone feedthru pins were super pricey. Cambion definitely does not have the right size (~.750” pin to pin, .136” hole, .250” above the panel) without a 2500 MOQ.

Those feedthru pins are indeed very pricey. If you don't care about their size too much, some are a bit cheaper. The ones I used for my first busses were around 1€ each, now I got some smaller ones for the remaining busses and with the number I'm ordering, the price went down to 60cts each, which is still a stupid price, but better I guess.
I know that Blake Devitt carries the original extrusions, but he's probably only selling them to Neve board owners... So I'm sticking to the old style ones with L and U bars ;)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on July 17, 2019, 01:49:40 AM
The ones I used for my first busses were around 1€ each, now I got some smaller ones for the remaining busses and with the number I'm ordering, the price went down to 60cts each, which is still a stupid price, but better I guess.

Do you have the part number or spec for either? I might have missed it if you posted it.

I know that Blake Devitt carries the original extrusions, but he's probably only selling them to Neve board owners... So I'm sticking to the old style ones with L and U bars ;)

Maybe Blake can be cajoled.

Pic attached of the extrusion(s) for clarity.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on July 17, 2019, 01:56:19 AM
So I ask the right questions(s), exactly what do you want to know?

Whether the original satin BSC341 640 Extra Dark Sea Grey spray on the NAD faceplates was two part epoxy, basically. Better yet, just the name of the company in England that can still provide the exact process and color. I was reading an Eddie Ciletti article and it sounded like (at least when it was written) the correct original process still exists but is more legal in the UK than the US.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on July 17, 2019, 07:40:00 AM
Whether the original satin BSC341 640 Extra Dark Sea Grey spray on the NAD faceplates was two part epoxy, basically. Better yet, just the name of the company in England that can still provide the exact process and color. I was reading an Eddie Ciletti article and it sounded like (at least when it was written) the correct original process still exists but is more legal in the UK than the US.

I have asked about the extrusions. I will pas on any answers I get.

Not entirely sure what the above question is about? Do you want to know who  painted the RAF blue/grey Neve front panels and/or the process they used?

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on July 17, 2019, 08:03:54 AM

Not entirely sure what the above question is about? Do you want to know who  painted the RAF blue/grey Neve front panels and/or the process they used?

Cheers

Ian

Hey Ian, If you get that information you could probably dine out on it for years 😉.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on July 17, 2019, 10:29:00 AM
I have asked about the extrusions. I will pas on any answers I get.

Thank you

Do you want to know who  painted the RAF blue/grey Neve front panels and/or the process they used?

Mostly what the process was and who is doing it the same way now. I’m not after RAF blue/grey for what it’s worth, I’m after the revised NAD color. But any info would be helpful.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: SIXTYNINER on July 30, 2019, 05:20:08 AM
Hello

Impressive.
look great !

Any automation planed ? let me know...

Best
Zam

Seen it running on the "Tube" video with your Studer desk

Zam automation  Super Cooooooool   
for this Super  Cooooooool   desk !

cheers
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: zamproject on August 03, 2019, 08:10:04 AM
Seen it running on the "Tube" video with your Studer desk

Zam automation  Super Cooooooool   
for this Super  Cooooooool   desk !

cheers

Hello

Not the topic but thanks for that   :)

Best
Zam
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on August 04, 2019, 03:30:47 AM
Here is what I have been able to find out about the process used to paint Neve panels in RAF blue/grey back in the 70s.

The primary painting contractor for all Neve metalwork (front & rear panels, cladding, etc) was George Lemin & Co.  Looking at the Companies House website they are still active (company no. 01318507), at Unit 4, Albone Way, Biggleswade, SG18 8BN, and now called Lemin & Co Product Finishers Ltd.  Tel. 01767 600120.

I have not been able to find any definitive info  regarding paint processes but I am told panels were powder-coated stove enamelled.

I guess it would be simplest to ask Lemin & Co.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: atavacron on August 04, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Thanks Ian!!
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on August 10, 2019, 03:08:09 AM
Here is what I have been able to find out about the process used to paint Neve panels in RAF blue/grey back in the 70s.

The primary painting contractor for all Neve metalwork (front & rear panels, cladding, etc) was George Lemin & Co.  Looking at the Companies House website they are still active (company no. 01318507), at Unit 4, Albone Way, Biggleswade, SG18 8BN, and now called Lemin & Co Product Finishers Ltd.  Tel. 01767 600120.

I have not been able to find any definitive info  regarding paint processes but I am told panels were powder-coated stove enamelled.

I guess it would be simplest to ask Lemin & Co.

Cheers

Ian

That is some valuable info, thank you Ian!
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sam system-d on August 12, 2019, 04:37:47 PM
This is amazing. Great work, makes me wanna drive down there and see it from my own eyes.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ilfungo on September 03, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
Great work remsouille!!!



Hi Robb, Those are not LO1166, they are T1310 inductors. This inductor was used at neve to load the BA183/283 cards when no balanced output was required. A traditionnal neve switching unit would have 1 BA183 before the fader,  loaded with such an inductor, and another BA183 before the buss sends, loaded with an LO1166 to use as a direct output.
Those modules in the pictures are just  tape return switching units for the right side of the console, so they don't need direct ouptuts, hence the two T1310 inductors. As a matter of fact, the left side, 8 buss 4aux switching units we're about to build won't have LO1166 for direct ouput either, as I don't have the need for them. I'd much rather use a buss.
On a side note,  you can see on the pictures  that the modules are not fitted with an input transformer yet. I'll be using OEP 31267 transformers.

OEP 31267 ?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on September 04, 2019, 05:36:54 AM
Great work remsouille!!!



OEP 31267 ?

Well technically, the OEP reference is X218A04B, but this is OEP's recreation of the classic Marinair 31267 line in transformer (in case you don't know, OEP is a british transformer manufacturer that's part of the carnhill group and they make (supposedly) the most spot on input marinair recreations out there, you can find them in the heritage audio clones, for example).
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ilfungo on September 04, 2019, 08:14:10 AM
Thanks remsouille!
But after a google search of OEP X218A04B nothing come up...
Where did you buy them?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on September 04, 2019, 10:32:15 AM
Thanks remsouille!
But after a google search of OEP X218A04B nothing come up...
Where did you buy them?

I direct ordered a batch of 50  ;)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ilfungo on September 05, 2019, 07:53:59 AM
Thanks!!!
Price?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on September 10, 2019, 02:32:58 AM
Thanks!!!
Price?

The price was 43€ each inc VAT !
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on September 10, 2019, 06:58:56 PM
I know that it's been claimed elsewhere that the OEP is closer to the older transformers than the usual Carnhill, but given that OEP and Carnhill are part of the same company, can you say what the actual difference is, if any, between the two?

Nice project 😊.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on October 15, 2019, 03:26:12 PM
I know that it's been claimed elsewhere that the OEP is closer to the older transformers than the usual Carnhill, but given that OEP and Carnhill are part of the same company, can you say what the actual difference is, if any, between the two?

Nice project 😊.

Sorry, I had not seen that. Well for one thing, they're not build in the same factory, and the OEP one was "designed" before Carnhill's ownership, so here's you biggest difference. Probably a whole different build process, maybe different materials as well.
As for the differences in sound, I honestly never take time to A/B such things (I hardly even have time to assemble the goddamn console), so I tend to rely on the golden ears of our dear friend Sasarist, whose findings were corroborated by others.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 16, 2019, 01:17:59 PM
Sorry, I had not seen that. Well for one thing, they're not build in the same factory, and the OEP one was "designed" before Carnhill's ownership...

Heya, no problem and thanks for the reply.   If they work like the old Marinair inputs then that's a good thing.  When you get a chance. could you post a picture for us?
Hope the build is going well thus far  :)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on January 31, 2020, 05:10:35 AM
Quick update, y'all!

I've received my first batch of transformers, 50 line ins form OEP! I'm making slow but steady progress on the frame building, it all lines up really well!
(https://i.imgur.com/UAGVp1r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Tekx8sL.jpg)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: SIXTYNINER on January 31, 2020, 08:29:04 AM
nice progress !

cheers

ps:
have fan  testing a good quantity of transformers
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on February 01, 2020, 04:31:33 AM
I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 02, 2020, 08:57:17 PM
I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module.

Cheers

Ian

I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.

It's a  sticky area.  There's no crime in putting whatever logo you want on something you build and keep for yourself.
 It'd become a problem if this stuff were sold on, even if sold with no deception involved and everything disclosed.    Because Remsouille would have no control over what the chain of ownership after that sale would turn into.

I personally don't believe remsouille has any deception whatsoever in mind.  He wants the look and the sound of a classic Neve desk and that's it.    The internals are obviously a new/modern layout and don't resemble Neve's build anyway. 

Story:  I once bought an ex BBC desk loaded with Calrec PQ15s modules from Mark Linett.   It had been refurbished etc.  by Brent Averil. 
I didn't know, and Mark didn't tell me, that the router modules were not original.  I didn't notice. My bad on that part?   

When I got the desk home and found out I was a bit miffed. This was a desk that had been bought for many $thousands.  In cash.  In good faith.
However, upon looking through the extensive BBC/Calrec documentation, I concluded that the desk was now more useable as a recording desk due to  said *new* routers than it had been before as a BBC broadcast desk.   
This is part of my ancient history anyway and I hold no ill will.   If anything, I feel more negatively towards myself for not noticing in the first place.   

I dunno?   Remsouille is doing a cracking job, it looks the part.  When he gets done he'll probably have years of enjoyment from it.


P.S.  Maybe don't show the logos on here anymore.  We don't need to know all the details of what goes on in the privacy of your own home  ;)   We would like to see the progress as it happens though  :)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 03, 2020, 01:26:25 AM
I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.

It's a  sticky area.  There's no crime in putting whatever logo you want on something you build and keep for yourself.
 It'd become a problem if this stuff were sold on, even if sold with no deception involved and everything disclosed.    Because Remsouille would have no control over what the chain of ownership after that sale would turn into.

I personally don't believe remsouille has any deception whatsoever in mind.  He wants the look and the sound of a classic Neve desk and that's it.    The internals are obviously a new/modern layout and don't resemble Neve's build anyway. 

Story:  I once bought an ex BBC desk loaded with Calrec PQ15s modules from Mark Linett.   It had been refurbished etc.  by Brent Averil. 
I didn't know, and Mark didn't tell me, that the router modules were not original.  I didn't notice. My bad on that part?   

When I got the desk home and found out I was a bit miffed. This was a desk that had been bought for many $thousands.  In cash.  In good faith.
However, upon looking through the extensive BBC/Calrec documentation, I concluded that the desk was now more useable as a recording desk due to  said *new* routers than it had been before as a BBC broadcast desk.   
This is part of my ancient history anyway and I hold no ill will.   If anything, I feel more negatively towards myself for not noticing in the first place.   

I dunno?   Remsouille is doing a cracking job, it looks the part.  When he gets done he'll probably have years of enjoyment from it.


P.S.  Maybe don't show the logos on here anymore.  We don't need to know all the details of what goes on in the privacy of your own home  ;)   We would like to see the progress as it happens though  :)
Very well summed up, thank you :)!
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 03, 2020, 01:59:23 AM
Very well summed up, thank you :)!

Just saying it as I saw it  :)

Let us know about those transformers when you get to it, I'm very interested
 
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 03, 2020, 03:04:29 AM
Just saying it as I saw it  :)

Let us know about those transformers when you get to it, I'm very interested

I've had OEP's inputs (both line and mic) in a 1073 for a couple of years now and I prefer that unit to my Carnhill loaded 1290s. But then again, it's a whole different unit, with different caps, transistors... and of course a proper 1073 looks better, and that probably is THE game killer  ;D
To be totally honest, I've trusted other's ears more than mine on that matter. I've pretty much only ever been using 1073 type preamps, so I don't hear them anymore. They're just a necessity to me, a utility thing dare I say. I lost the crave for different preamp flavours long ago, which is why this console build probably makes so much sense to me. Having it all at hand and embracing the one sound I've only ever known.  It also makes so much more sense in the context of how I work, and the vibe at my studio. For those interested here's a link to my studio's website http://www.whitebatrecorders.com (http://www.whitebatrecorders.com)

Several golden-eared fellows who are very influential on this build all deem these OEP best, or at least truest to the original ones, so I trust them.  At least there's one thing I don't have to worry about anymore  ;D  In the end, once the signal hits tape (and buss amps and compressors and tape machine transformers before that), I doubt one can really hear the variation in mic pre input transformers anymore  ; 8)

The one giving me nightmares at the moment is the LO1166... This one has the biggest impact in any Neve design  and the Carnhill ones just aren't right, I'm sort of getting tired of having to carve out lo-mid mud all the time. We need to figure that out. If anyone, for example, could lend me one from the old Prodigy group order ones for evaluation, I'd be eternally grateful!
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 03, 2020, 03:30:24 AM
The one giving me nightmares at the moment is the LO1166... This one has the biggest impact in any Neve design  and the Carnhill ones just aren't right, I'm sort of getting tired of having to carve out lo-mid mud all the time. We need to figure that out. If anyone, for example, could lend me one from the old Prodigy group order ones for evaluation, I'd be eternally grateful!

Thanks for the low down on the OEP's, I think a lot of folks will be interested in using them for sure.  I am.

I agree on the LO1166 Carnhills not being quite right.   Carnhill never did make the outputs for classic Neve and I've heard conflicting stories about whether what's in the Neve re issue 1073 types are exactly the same as what you or I can buy, or are exclusive parts made just for them.

 That low end mud from the Carnhills when you've run a signal through the channel amp, the router, the bus amp etc does build up, especially over all tracks. To a much lesser extent, it does too on an original desk.  My thinking, if I ever were in a position to do something like this,  has been to possibly sod originality and maybe try the Sowter version.  It's a more balanced tone for sure.   But copying the Prodigy or going over C.J.'s autopsy reports with a person who will take care to do it right is a good idea too.   

I admire that you've identified the sound you want and have committed to it, that's how it was in the old days.  There weren't racks of various flavour pres to choose from.       

Anyway, I've taken up way too much space on your thread,  thanks for the updates,  keep going  :)

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on February 03, 2020, 04:25:56 AM
I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.


That is because he has replaced the original picture. Fortunately I kept a copy:

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 03, 2020, 06:10:29 AM
That is because he has replaced the original picture. Fortunately I kept a copy:
 

Well yes, I said it was possible an edit to the picture had been made.

Being an ex employee of Neve as you are, I do see where you're coming from.  Even with that aside I  see your point.
 
 If we were to go hunting for bigger game than the folks here who build stuff for their own use -  I  can personally think of dozens of classic desks, originally built by Neve, EMI, API etc., that are in use in the biggest studios you can think of -  where whole sections, or extra channel modules have been created from new -  to expand, update,  or replace missing modules.  These new modules are externally indistinguishable from those which came from the original factory.   Resplendent with original logos.

Unless something is fraudulently sold as being something it isn't, the issue can only be debated on a moral basis.

Again, dunno?  If it makes someone happy to build something with a certain look for themselves, is that wrong? 
These particular modules would never pass as original Neve given the internal  construction, so fobbing them off as such in a sale is highly unlikely.

Anyway, peace, love, and understanding  :)

 




Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on February 03, 2020, 06:53:21 AM
I think a little context will help clarify matters.  In reply #24 on 26th May 2017 the OP posted a front panel design for the routing module which included a Neve logo.

In reply #30 I said "You do realise copying the Neve logo could be a copyright infringement."

to which the op in reply#31 said "Which is why we didn't ;)"

and reply#28 picture was updated showing two modules of that design without a logo. So the clear implication the OP has thought better of it and decided to remove the logo from the design. End of story as far as I was concerned.

So you can imagine why I was surprised nearly three years later to see him post a picture of a module with the Neve logo on it.  And all I said in reply #88 was:

"I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module."

Then, before Winston could reply he reposted the picture with the Neve logo photo-shopped out.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Cheers

Ian

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 03, 2020, 07:39:44 AM
Heya Ian,
OK, yes I just read back and can see how it transpired.
Well, whatever happens with the routers in question, I do hope you guys don't fall out and can come to an understanding if need be so that you feel comfortable still contributing to this thread.  You've added a lot so far.   

Anyway, gotta pack my bags for a long overdue break with my significant other so I'll catch up with you later...

Ciao.

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Squeaky on February 03, 2020, 03:56:30 PM
Not trying to add fuel to the fire, or to provide advice for that matter,  just trying to provide some additional information for people to consider.

Respectfully Ian, I believe the issue relates more closely to trade mark infringement and passing off than copyright. There exists a registered Neve trade mark (stylised sinusoidal wave or "N" next to the word Neve, the wave is not in a circle). This mark is registered in various jurisdictions around the world including Australia. Most of the registrations appear active although I only took a bit of a glance in one database. Under Australian law, a registered trade mark is infringed "if the person uses as a trade mark a sign that is substantially identical with, or deceptively similar to, the trade mark in relation to goods or services in respect of which the trade mark is registered". (s 120 TMA 1995).

So one could ask oneself what constitutes "use as a sign in relation to goods or services" and what constitutes "deceptive similarity" as a starting point.

Furthermore, something else to consider is that in common law countries (such as Australia), the tort of passing off prevents one trader from misrepresenting goods or services as being the goods and services of another, and also prevents a trader from holding out his or her goods or services as having some association or connection with another when this is not true.

I won't go into it any more than this.

I also have something to add about OEP transformers, I have a couple of high nickel core output transformers from OEP that look really well made. I haven't really gotten around to testing them yet. They are  reasonably chunky transformers, not nearly as big as the steel Carnhills but larger than say the Cinemag CMOB type. I have a 1:1 and a 1:2 at hand. I have been trying to think of a simple way to A-B then against a few other output transformers I have (a mixture of steel and nickel, gapped and ungapped). OEP seem full of surprises.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: ruffrecords on February 03, 2020, 04:35:36 PM
To reiterate all I said three years ago was using the logo might infringe Neve's copyright to which the OP replied 'which is why we didn't' which clearly means we did not use the logo. The picture posted recently clearly demonstrated that this was not true. I am not arguing about whether it does or does not infringe but rather that the OP said he did not use the logo and then did use it.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 03, 2020, 05:11:17 PM
To reiterate all I said three years ago was using the logo might infringe Neve's copyright to which the OP replied 'which is why we didn't' which clearly means we did not use the logo. The picture posted recently clearly demonstrated that this was not true. I am not arguing about whether it does or does not infringe but rather that the OP said he did not use the logo and then did use it.

Cheers

Ian

Ok, I'll sum it all up in total transparency so we can move on. The first picture I posted of the modules had Neve logos on them. Just to be clear, ALL THE ROUTING MODULES ON MY CONSOLE PROJECT DO HAVE NEVE LOGOS. When Ian first told me about a possible infringement, I photoshopped the logos out and reposted the photos and then replied: "Which is why we didn't ;)". That sentence along with the blinking smiley meant "Oops, you're right, let's not show these logos on here, let's not attract attention on the community". I honestly thought Ian and whoever was following the thread had understood what I meant, since the photos were exactly the same as before minus the logos, but obviously this was not the case and I'm sorry about it.
This is all in good faith. I personally don't care if all my photos have Neve logos on them, since I'm not selling anything, and these modules obviously would never pass for real Neve products. Heck, I could even post a picture of myself with a fake home made Nike T-shirt, no one could reach me. I was photoshopping the logos out out of courtesy for the trademark-sensitive folks out here and out of respect for the community.   I'll make sure I photoshop each and every photo from now on. Or maybe I shouldn't. Should I?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 10, 2020, 05:10:20 PM
Hi guys,

I've been doing an awful lot of wiring today, but I'm stumbling on how to wire the faders to the routing modules. This has been discussed in a couple of older threads but it's still a little unclear to me, so here is what i have so far, please correct me if anything's wrong:
(https://i.imgur.com/pej0zpU.jpg)
I'm am using classic Neve P&g 1520 faders. I understand there should be another cable going from the fader to B- (0v) for referencing. I kind of understand why that is, but can't really translate it into wiring. Can anybody tell me I should wire this? Also, there is a pair of switches inside the fader for fader kill and pfl. Does the fader kill one needs additional wiring or does it all happen in fader? What about the pfl ones, were they used in old neve boards?
Thank you, lads!
R.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 11, 2020, 03:06:57 PM
The 5K trim pot (VR1) internal to the channel amp or router was not intended to have a connection to B-.  When used with a 1520 5K audio fader, it was there to adjust for small differences in gain between channels and was connected as an adjustable series resistance arm in the fader send. 
I don't have a drawing program on hand and can't find the original Neve wiring doc so, until someone comes up with a drawing, and from memory  :o   
First use a twin screened cable from the amplifier to the fader input and B-,  connect screen at the amp side only.   The conductors of this cable are are connected at the amp side to a B- point and the wiper of VR1.  At the fader side they connect to the fader input and bottom (0v).
Then use a single screened cable from the fader out to the amp's fader return.  Again, connect the screen only at one end, this time at the fader. 
In situ, there should be no need to make an earth connection between the amp and the fader as both will be screwed to the chassis.

I hope this helps a little, I'll try and draw something if no one else comes along
D.J.H.


   
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 11, 2020, 04:27:35 PM
The 5K trim pot (VR1) internal to the channel amp or router was not intended to have a connection to B-.  When used with a 1520 5K audio fader, it was there to adjust for small differences in gain between channels and was connected as an adjustable series resistance arm in the fader send. 
I don't have a drawing program on hand and can't find the original Neve wiring doc so, until someone comes up with a drawing, and from memory  :o   
First use a twin screened cable from the amplifier to the fader input and B-,  connect screen at the amp side only.   The conductors of this cable are are connected at the amp side to a B- point and the wiper of VR1.  At the fader side they connect to the fader input and bottom (0v).
Then use a single screened cable from the fader out to the amp's fader return.  Again, connect the screen only at one end, this time at the fader. 
In situ, there should be no need to make an earth connection between the amp and the fader as both will be screwed to the chassis.

I hope this helps a little, I'll try and draw something if no one else comes along
D.J.H.


 

Thanks! I knew about VR1 being a "fader trim"! The approach you're describing seems just fine, however I'm not sure that's how it was done in the old 8014 boards. I have many reference pictures and all show some weird daisy chaining between faders and only one double screened wire, as far as I can tell. 
(https://i.imgur.com/xcbsAkg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/f41pQuS.jpg)
If only I had a neve console, I would have all my answers at hand..... wait....
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 11, 2020, 04:39:54 PM
The bottom picture doesn't look like original Neve wiring to me so, any one's guess there?
I suppose there can be several ways to wire up the faders.   On every old Neve desk I worked on, and on the one 8016 I owned for a short while, there were 2 distinct cables used for the audio signal to and from the faders. 
My desk did not have PFL wiring from the fader, just an absolute "kill" when the back switch engaged (not back "press") and then  "fader start" which had long since been disconnected.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on February 11, 2020, 04:45:39 PM
The bottom picture doesn't look like original Neve wiring to me so, any one's guess there?
I suppose there can be several ways to wire up the faders.   On every old Neve desk I worked on, and on the one 8016 I owned for a short while, there were 2 distinct cables used for the audio signal to and from the faders. 
My desk did not have PFL wiring from the fader, just an absolute "kill" when the back switch engaged and then  "fader start" which had long since been disconnected.

Yes, the bottom picture is from API's 8014 rebuild thread here on gdiy. The new wiring was consistent with the old job, though. I don't care too much about pfl, though I guess fader kill is pretty much default on these boards..
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on February 11, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
OK well, on the drawing of how you have stuff wired, remove the connection at the amp to P2 (the bottom of the 5K trimmer) and just take that connection from the fader to a B- point on the amp.   Turn the trimmer so it's effectively out of the circuit.

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: Whoops on February 12, 2020, 11:11:12 PM
Ok, I'll sum it all up in total transparency so we can move on. The first picture I posted of the modules had Neve logos on them. Just to be clear, ALL THE ROUTING MODULES ON MY CONSOLE PROJECT DO HAVE NEVE LOGOS. When Ian first told me about a possible infringement, I photoshopped the logos out and reposted the photos

Ian is a great guy and you did the right thing in clearing things up and be honest, respect to Ian and respect to you.

I was photoshopping the logos out out of courtesy for the trademark-sensitive folks out here and out of respect for the community.   I'll make sure I photoshop each and every photo from now on. Or maybe I shouldn't. Should I?

Reality is, you can do whatever you want, it's your build and your modules, no one has nothing to do with it.

But replying to your question, yes you should.
What you do privately it's your own business but this is a public forum and you should protect it.
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on March 21, 2020, 10:40:38 AM
Hi everybody,
I hope everybody's alright in these strange times! Well, the good thing about that lockdown is that I get time to work on the console a lot. As a matter of fact, the right hand, tape return  side of the console is done( the mixing part at least, I still needsthe remote for the 16 track tape machine and the penthouse will house effects and stuff, more on that later  ;) ), and I've started assembling the left hand, recording side:
(https://i.imgur.com/D5hY7cI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9kukEo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/t1dE9db.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OlRzM6q.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sRDAZns.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3A7oXea.jpg)
Anyway, it still is an expensive pile of metal at the moment as I don't have 1272s nor a psu to test it. But at least, it looks pretty good  :).
I'm very bad at documenting the process, but I aknowledge the fact that this is something that probably hasn't been done before and wouldn't have been possible with the help of our great community, so I'll be happy to answer any questions regarding parts, design, etc...
Thank you all!

Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: boji on March 22, 2020, 10:51:56 PM
Goodness I love this picts!   Seeing that I'm at the point where I'm trying to find the best way to mount 500 series backplaces, these bus picts and edge connection picts have been very helpful.  If you have any other photos of progress, please, keep sharing!

Thanks for what you've provided thus far, and good luck on completing your project. Enormous undertaking!

Edit:  Just noticed the black, right angle plates used to suspend the copper bus bar.  Are they made of nylon or some such insulative material?
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on March 23, 2020, 04:05:13 AM
Thanks, man! It means a lot coming from you, with your insanely hardcore console project!!
The right angle plates are just PVC ones, that's the only suitable thing I could source locally. The original boards used blocks of something that's called paxolin, which is a sort wood mixed resin.... PVC will do ;)
I'll keep posting stuff for sure!
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: sam system-d on April 04, 2020, 01:02:29 PM
This is trully impressive. Thanks, now I can't brag about my DIY pres and comps. See you after lockdown !
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on April 12, 2020, 07:22:21 AM
Hi guys! I've just drawn the block diagram for my monitoring section! If anyone sees something strange, please do tell!
The mono switch is probably the part that needs more thinking... I'd like to keep the whole thing passive, but if the mono switch absolutely requires an active element, what would it be?
(https://i.imgur.com/ExxraT2.jpg)
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: zamproject on April 12, 2020, 08:24:07 AM
Hello

I'll probably put one more EXT in (you never know...) and AUX master send (if you don't have too much)
I guess you can monitor AUX return via channel PFL ? otherwise AUX ret can be useful to add too.

As for the output, one more change nothing in the design, and you'll blame yourself the day you add a third speaker paar, or anything you want to listen through.

For the studio section it could be nice to have a 3 way selector TB and CR input as it is, but also a independent input selection, that offer the ability to monitor/playback different input than control room.

An option (but which need relay) is to have your TB push button overwriting studio selector input to TB.

Best
Zam
Title: Re: !!! Neve Console Build !!!
Post by: remsouille on April 12, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
Hello

I'll probably put one more EXT in (you never know...) and AUX master send (if you don't have too much)
I guess you can monitor AUX return via channel PFL ? otherwise AUX ret can be useful to add too.
The EXT in will be accessible from the patchbay, so no need for an additional one!  Aux sends (2) and returns  (4) can all be monitored via channel PFL indeed, so no need to have them on the selector either. I hardly ever monitor the auxes anyway...
The reason Cue is on the selector is so that I can monitor the cue sends in stereo (the pfl channel is mono).

As for the output, one more change nothing in the design, and you'll blame yourself the day you add a third speaker paar, or anything you want to listen through.
Ha! Well, I never use the second speaker output, so having a third would be a massive overkill haha

For the studio section it could be nice to have a 3 way selector TB and CR input as it is, but also a independent input selection, that offer the ability to monitor/playback different input than control room.
I considered that ,but then again, though it doesn't show on the diagram, I intend to have the monitor input selector normalized to the studio input selector at the patchbay, so I can always have access to it there (though it would seldom happen.. I like the guys downstairs to hear the same thing I do so we're on the same page).

An option (but which need relay) is to have your TB push button overwriting studio selector input to TB.
Again, that doesn't show on the diagram, but the "studio input selector" would indeed actually be the "talkback to studio switch". There will be 3  on-off-(on) talkback switches: talkback to cue, talkback to groups (slate) and talkback to studio speakers.

Best
Zam
C'est toi, le meilleur!
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on April 23, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
Hi Remsouille,

Cracking work man, looking real good !
Wished I had seen your post before today.

I've got a extrusion drawing for the  busbar , and have even gone down the road of getting quotes on a new die for extruding. 800 quid for the die, and a minimum order of 250KG....... :-\

I've got a build coming up,  basically rebuilding a vintage Neve console from ground up. Going to be a long old project, but I like to think of it as my 'Ferrari' in the garage  ;)
I've got all 24 routing modules, faders, monitor section, master section, some of the line amps, and 9 out of 10 of the side cheeks.

No Connectors...... Not enough rail and no 24x1060's  :o but thats another story !!

Ive also been in touch with Staffall (Sealectro) regarding the PTFE pressfit feedthroughs and the PTFE bushes.. not cheap AT ALL !!
011-1004-000-519  (tin lead plate white)
500 @$2.98 ea / 1000 @$1.87

011-1004-000-512 (tin lead plate red)
[email protected]$3.87 ea / 1000 @$2.68

119-0014-000-009 (white)
[email protected]$1.89 ea/ [email protected]$1.26

119-0014-00-002 (red)
[email protected] ea / [email protected]$2.27

 :o

Did you manage to get  VERO to do a run of the single rail strip ? also, where did you get the 283 heatsinks from ? Ive got them drawn up in solidworks, but havent had them machined yet ?

Kudos to you brother  :)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on April 24, 2020, 06:02:54 AM
Hi Remsouille,

Cracking work man, looking real good !
Wished I had seen your post before today.
Thank you brother! Never too late!
I've got a extrusion drawing for the  busbar , and have even gone down the road of getting quotes on a new die for extruding. 800 quid for the die, and a minimum order of 250KG....... :-\
Gee, that's a lot of extrusions!!!
I've got a build coming up,  basically rebuilding a vintage Neve console from ground up. Going to be a long old project, but I like to think of it as my 'Ferrari' in the garage  ;)
I've got all 24 routing modules, faders, monitor section, master section, some of the line amps, and 9 out of 10 of the side cheeks.
WOOW! That's just great!! What routing modules do you have?
No Connectors...... Not enough rail and no 24x1060's  :o but thats another story !!
Yeah, the amphenol connectors... I managed to find a batch of 250 a couple of years ago, fellow gdiy member API bought them all, maybe he might be willing to sell them, he's been away from Neve stuff for quite some time. Same thing for the heatsinks, he had them made, maybe he still have some, though they were not cheap!

Ive also been in touch with Staffall (Sealectro) regarding the PTFE pressfit feedthroughs and the PTFE bushes.. not cheap AT ALL !!
011-1004-000-519  (tin lead plate white)
500 @$2.98 ea / 1000 @$1.87

011-1004-000-512 (tin lead plate red)
[email protected]$3.87 ea / 1000 @$2.68

119-0014-000-009 (white)
[email protected]$1.89 ea/ [email protected]$1.26

119-0014-00-002 (red)
[email protected] ea / [email protected]$2.27
This is just ridiculous hahaha I've been using the keystone stuff that you can find at Mouser, it's still expensive, but the last time I bought some, I picked smaller ones and they were cheaper, like [email protected] each... Still a stupid price if you ask me. I talked to Blake Devitt about this issue, and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a valid way around..
Did you manage to get  VERO to do a run of the single rail strip ? also, where did you get the 283 heatsinks from ? Ive got them drawn up in solidworks, but havent had them machined yet ?
No, I just went very old school with a 1,5mm2 copper lead acting as the buss.. It means more ptfe pins, but I hear that vero strips have a way of failing sometimes.. And I like meself a nice chunk of copper :)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on April 29, 2020, 05:33:15 PM
Hi Guys,
Quick question: Do you think it would be ok to feed 2 unbalanced busses from the  balanced output of a 1272, just taking the signal from the hot wire? Or would I have to un-balance the signal with a  transformer before hitting the busses?
I want my group's 1272s to have routing and insert functions, so I have it all in one unit. The path would have to be 1272 in > LO1166 out/insert send  > insert return > buss feeds/1272 out.  Adding a transformer for the buss feeds would really crowd up the modules, so if i can avoid it...
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: ruffrecords on April 29, 2020, 06:47:04 PM
Hi Guys,
Quick question: Do you think it would be ok to feed 2 unbalanced busses from the  balanced output of a 1272, just taking the signal from the hot wire?
Definitely not. The transformer is not only balanced it is floating so you would get no signal from just the hot  wire.
Quote
Or would I have to un-balance the signal with a  transformer before hitting the busses?
That would be the Neve way of doing it if you wanted routing AFTER the insert. If you want it BEFORE the insert then you can feed from the usual unbalanced output.
Quote
I want my group's 1272s to have routing and insert functions, so I have it all in one unit. The path would have to be 1272 in > LO1166 out/insert send  > insert return > buss feeds/1272 out.  Adding a transformer for the buss feeds would really crowd up the modules, so if i can avoid it...
There is only one 's' in bus and two in buses.

Cheers

Ian
[/quote]
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: 80hinhiding on April 29, 2020, 08:04:57 PM
I believe you can also use a differential amp (correct me if I'm wrong guys) if you don't want to use, or don't have room for, another transformer.

Or as Ian suggested you can use the unbalanced output from the amp.  Pin F is unbalanced out, the point where 33K goes to ground.

Adam
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on April 30, 2020, 04:19:02 AM
There is only one 's' in bus and two in buses.
HA! Thank you! That clears it all up! I almost thought bus and buss were different words altogether  :o
Or as Ian suggested you can use the unbalanced output from the amp. 
That was my initial plan, then I realized it wouldn't make sense to have pre-insert feeds (to me at least). But it's alright, an extra input transformer will fit inside a 1272, it's just really tight but eh! What should I use, btw? Just a 31267 10K:600 ?
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: 80hinhiding on April 30, 2020, 11:03:33 AM
That was my initial plan, then I realized it wouldn't make sense to have pre-insert feeds (to me at least). But it's alright, an extra input transformer will fit inside a 1272, it's just really tight but eh! What should I use, btw? Just a 31267 10K:600 ?

You must have a good budget for this.  Lots of iron.

In order to get the signal back down to the operating level of a neve bus you'd likely need to use a duplicate of your line level step down input transformer, but I'll leave the final answer up to Ian.
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on April 30, 2020, 12:18:55 PM
You must have a good budget for this.  Lots of iron.
Well, only 6 buses would need this, and I have the iron already. And I'm not counting money anymore anyway haha
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: ruffrecords on April 30, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
HA! Thank you! That clears it all up! I almost thought bus and buss were different words altogether  :oThat was my initial plan, then I realized it wouldn't make sense to have pre-insert feeds (to me at least). But it's alright, an extra input transformer will fit inside a 1272, it's just really tight but eh! What should I use, btw? Just a 31267 10K:600 ?

31267 wired 10K:600 would be the normal choice to bring the signal down to the nominal internal level again.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on April 30, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
31267 wired 10K:600 would be the normal choice to bring the signal down to the nominal internal level again.

Cheers

Ian

Great! Thank you, Ian!

I've been working a lot on the design of the center section these days.  Lots of brain scratching, sourcing and comparing different parts, drawing front panels and stuff, but I'm close to have somewhat of a finished idea of what it's going to be! More on that soon!
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on May 01, 2020, 06:02:44 PM
Quote
WOOW! That's just great!! What routing modules do you have?

Ive got 1867 routing modules (12") 1455 osc, 1655 t/b (5.5") , 1875/1874 revs (8.75").  the line amps are also 5.5" modules, but I cant for the life of me remember the module designation. I'll have a check tomorrow.
Quote
Yeah, the amphenol connectors... I managed to find a batch of 250 a couple of years ago, fellow gdiy member API bought them all, maybe he might be willing to sell them, he's been away from Neve stuff for quite some time. Same thing for the heatsinks, he had them made, maybe he still have some, though they were not cheap!

I'm after the 10 way and 15 way Amphenols
Amphenol 10 way socket - 143-010-01
Amphenol 10 way plug - 133-010-21

Amphenol 15 way socket - 143-015-01
Amphenol 15 way plug - 133-015-21 ?

......... Now that will be one of the longest shots !!


Best,
Steve
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 02, 2020, 04:12:25 AM
I'm after the 10 way and 15 way Amphenols
Amphenol 10 way socket - 143-010-01
Amphenol 10 way plug - 133-010-21

Amphenol 15 way socket - 143-015-01
Amphenol 15 way plug - 133-015-21 ?

......... Now that will be one of the longest shots !!

Indeed! I just found 20 x 133-018-13, but 79$ each? No thank you... About the plugs though, don't neglect the ones that end with .13 , they're pins instead of eyelets but that doesn't make much of a difference!
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on May 02, 2020, 03:22:31 PM
Quote
Indeed! I just found 20 x 133-018-13, but 79$ each? No thank you... About the plugs though, don't neglect the ones that end with .13 , they're pins instead of eyelets but that doesn't make much of a difference!

 :o :o :o 79$ each !!!!! Ffs !!!

I wish Amphenol would start producing again..... I can dream  ;D

Remi, Heres some links to a photobucket album of mine. Just so you can see what I'm up against !!
https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits (https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits)
and the 1060's ( I got to build 24 for myself)
https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits/NEVE%201060 (https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits/NEVE%201060)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 02, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
Goodness... that thing IS ancient!
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on May 02, 2020, 04:41:29 PM
Quote
Goodness... that thing IS ancient!

She's an oldie alright ! Ive tried finding out info on her, but I cant find anything. At all.
Ive asked GT, Blake etc and no-one knows anything.

Ive seen some old drawings from 1970, but this pre-dates that. Strangely, there seems to be more pics of the older black front types, but nothing on this old girl / frame style / heritage etc. from before the early 80's anyway.
It's all a bit sad really, as the previous owner racked up the 1060's, and stripped the frame.
We managed to find 9 out of 10 of the side cheeks, none of the original ISEP, none of the frame connector rails, none of the busbar, basically, what you see in the pics, is all thats there !!

There was a rumour that it came from the Hammer House of horror studios, but after doing some research, it seems like the original productions studios which were in Bray, was re-located in 1966. I'd say that era was the black front ?
but saying that, the 2254 was developed around 1968, and this console was before that as its mainly Germanium, (-24V) ??
However, I'm not entierly sure that the console was fully (-24V) as there are two 24V PSU's of equal size that would be overkill for phantom powering. mmmmm... possibly +24/0V/-24V (48Vacross the two) Obviously Ive got more investigations to do, and a lot of this is just summising at the moment.
Questions indeed..... ::)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: ruffrecords on May 03, 2020, 09:50:20 AM
Remi, Heres some links to a photobucket album of mine. Just so you can see what I'm up against !!
https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits (https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits)
and the 1060's ( I got to build 24 for myself)
https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits/NEVE%201060 (https://s848.photobucket.com/user/lazylizardlabs/library/Neve%20Desk%20Bits/NEVE%201060)

Interesting that back in 1972 they were still using octal plug in input transformers, external power transistors and a negative rail. By the time I joined in 1974 all that had been replaced by the now familiar St. Ives input transformers, all NPN circuits with the power transistor on the PCB and a +ve rail.

Do you know the A number for this console? It is usually on a small plate riveted to the back of the mixer. If you can find it I may be able to find out some more info about it.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: mjrippe on May 03, 2020, 04:31:16 PM
Those 15 way Amphenol are the same as 500 series racks, no?  Should be plenty of sockets available from other manufacturers (Cinch, Viking, SAE are a few I have on hand) unless you have to have Amphenol to be authentic.
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 03, 2020, 05:26:49 PM
Those 15 way Amphenol are the same as 500 series racks, no?  Should be plenty of sockets available from other manufacturers (Cinch, Viking, SAE are a few I have on hand) unless you have to have Amphenol to be authentic.
Then again, the females are not the issue, the males are (pun intended aha).
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on May 03, 2020, 06:17:07 PM
Then again, the females are not the issue, the males are (pun intended aha).

Ain't it always so?   :)
A cheapo solution that some Neve rackers have done is just using a PCB card for the male but, in a desk environment, dunno about the reliability of that.
 
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Brian Roth on May 03, 2020, 10:22:54 PM
Sullins makes male edge connectors.

https://sullinscorp.com/products/?filters=category:312&toggle=in

Bri
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 04, 2020, 03:45:08 AM
Sullins makes male edge connectors.

https://sullinscorp.com/products/?filters=category:312&toggle=in

Bri

Oh my! Anybody as experience with them? They could be a real lifesaver..
(https://media.digikey.com/Renders/Sullins%20Renders/E(B,C)CxxMMWD.jpg)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Brian Roth on May 04, 2020, 04:06:51 AM
I once pondered a niche product intended for a 15 pin/0.156" centers 500 (API style) frame and ran across the Sullins male  connectors.  Sullins was quite helpful and sent me a sample that fit perfectly into a 500 series backplane.  IIRC the pricing was $13 or $20 apiece at 10 quantity from the factory.  Very high quality sample!!

Digikey has some of those males in stock.  It all depends on what contact spacing and numbers of contacts to see if DK has something useful.

I don't know if the link below is specific to "me" due to my search, or if it works for everyone:

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/connectors-interconnects/card-edge-connectors-edgeboard-connectors/303?k=edge+connector&k=&pkeyword=edge+connector&sv=0&pv29=371147&sf=0&FV=-8%7C303%2C-1%7C35&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25

Just search DK for edge connector, select Sullins and "male" to drill down.

Bri




Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 04, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
I once pondered a niche product intended for a 15 pin/0.156" centers 500 (API style) frame and ran across the Sullins male  connectors.  Sullins was quite helpful and sent me a sample that fit perfectly into a 500 series backplane.  IIRC the pricing was $13 or $20 apiece at 10 quantity from the factory.  Very high quality sample!

Well I'm curious to see what others have to say about them, but this is the best "news" of the month so far for me!

On a different matter, this is a general question, one that might sound stupid but I'll ask it anyway.
I found this in a Neve technical manual.
(https://i.imgur.com/n5AE5l1.png)
Is it an in-factory convention that was adopted by Neve and which applies to each and every balanced connection in the console, or is it common and general practice? To avoid ground loops, I suppose?

So for example, if I have this signal path: XLR in > routing module connector> XLR out, I would ground the screen at the XLR on the way in and at the module connector on the way out. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: ruffrecords on May 04, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
It is important to remember that the screen of a balanced lead is a screen. it is not a ground and it is not a signal carrying conductor. Its purpose is to screen the wires inside from electrostatic interference. At some point it needs to be connected to all the other screening metalwork which includes the main frame of the mixer and all the modules' metalwork i.e to the chassis. For it to act as a screen it only needs to be connected at one end so it forms an equipotential. If you connect it to chassis at both ends it should not create hum loops.

From the point of view of the cable, the idea is to extend the screening of the chassis into close proximity of the cable so that other unscreened signals inside the chassis (e.g. bus bar feeds) to not interfere with it.

I am not sure if the scheme in your picture was a Neve standard or not. However, there was a lot of misunderstanding of screening and grounding in those days specially when it came to broadcast systems. Neve installed many system close to powerful transmitters and often had to supervise a re-wiring of a studio to keep rf out of the system.  my understanding is that balanced cable screens work better at rf is connected to chassis at one end only. I don't know why.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on May 07, 2020, 07:53:28 AM
https://youtu.be/c6qUw8RhrCc (https://youtu.be/c6qUw8RhrCc)

It's not much, but it means the world to me 🌍😊❤️
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: zamproject on May 07, 2020, 08:15:43 AM
https://youtu.be/c6qUw8RhrCc (https://youtu.be/c6qUw8RhrCc)

It's not much, but it means the world to me 🌍😊❤️

 :)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on May 13, 2020, 10:52:14 AM
Sullins makes male edge connectors.

https://sullinscorp.com/products/?filters=category:312&toggle=in

Bri


Very nice !!! I'll order some up. Thank you for the link Brian.
Oh my! Anybody as experience with them? They could be a real lifesaver..
(https://media.digikey.com/Renders/Sullins%20Renders/E(B,C)CxxMMWD.jpg)

 :)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: remsouille on June 23, 2020, 04:00:25 AM
Amongst other things, I did a quick dry assembling of the frame, just for fun and to see the actual size of it in real life.
(https://i.imgur.com/CBwP68h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ybD8zYm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V87c6bm.jpg)
I hope it fits in the studio :) 8)
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: zamproject on June 23, 2020, 07:35:51 AM
I hope it fits in the studio :) 8)

Haha, I just imagine one second you don't check prior to the build...
That shouldn't be fun

Best
Zam
Title: Re: Neve 80 series Console Build
Post by: Kid Squid on June 28, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
GORGEOUS !!!