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General Discussions => Truth Table => Topic started by: rkn80 on February 02, 2018, 12:09:36 PM

Title: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 02, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Good evening,

I went a long way, did a lot of research and development and now the dream came true: My DIY multichannel USB audio interface is alive! Actually it is the descendant of my earlier AD/DA-project years ago.

The project "Infinitas" still incorporates the modular design (see picture). First there is the interface board. The features are:
USB connection for UAC2 operation exposing 32 inputs and 32 outputs to the computer. In a first version of this board I tried to implement the UAC2 stuff on a generic MCU, now I switched over to XE216 by XMOS which turned out to be the cheaper solution. All audio streams are routed to a MachXO2 for signal distributing/routing. The MachXO2 either routes an audio stream to the DSP or to the expansion headers.
There is an optional DSP on this board. It is an ADAU1452. This can be easily programmed by SigmaStudio.
As I said the DSP is only an option.
The board has wordclock in and out. It uses a CS2100 for the PLL.
To this interface board you can connect up to 32 inputs and 32 outputs. For testing (s. picture) I have connected my new ADC/DAC board with 8 balanced audio inputs and 8 balanced audio outputs utilizing AKM4458 and AKM5558.
Since this project has a strong connection to the freeDSP project the expansion headers use the freeDSP I2S expansion header pinout.

Currently I am busy with building the next ADC/DAC board to expand the setup to 16 I/Os.

Since the USB implementation is UAC2 it works driverless for macOS and Linux. For Windows you will need one of these open source ASIO drivers. I haven't tested this yet, but I will soon.
Edit: It does work with the usbaudio2 driver of Windows 10 together with asio4all. No additional driver needed.

Of course some more expansion board are needed (AES, ADAT etc.). I think I'll make an ADAT board for it next. However, I'ld like it to see that you start designing your own expansion boards. Therefore, I am planning to publish the project on github under a open hardware license.

Anyway, if there is enough interest we can organize a group buy of the already existing boards.

Raphael


Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: zamproject on February 02, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Hello Raphael

That's the new DIY millennium ...

All hand soldering ?

Looking forward, so interesting !!!

Best
Zam
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: kvintus on February 03, 2018, 03:14:53 AM
Impressive! Following this with great interest.

I am absolutely interested in buying PCBs and building one of these.

/Anders
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rock soderstrom on February 03, 2018, 07:14:34 AM
Impressive! Following this with great interest.

I am absolutely interested in buying PCBs and building one of these.

/Anders

+1!

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Rocinante on February 05, 2018, 03:07:12 AM
I'm in.  Although how much SMD soldering are we talking about?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: chefducuisine on February 05, 2018, 02:00:18 PM
Interested.
Do your 'old' ad/da boards as well?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 06, 2018, 10:15:26 AM
I'm in.  Although how much SMD soldering are we talking about?

Very stressless. I did both boards on two saterdays afternoons, thus one afternoon per board including basic testing etc. I did not use any special tools, only a solder iron with  a fine tip and a cheap hot air solder station (but that is not really needed).
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 06, 2018, 10:16:18 AM
Interested.
Do your 'old' ad/da boards as well?

Yes they do. Depending on desired configuration you may have to change them from i2s operation to tdm8 operation.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: MetalD on February 06, 2018, 05:06:32 PM
I am very very interested
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Whoops on February 08, 2018, 01:50:26 AM
Hello Raphael,
congratulations for your work and developments.

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: lame_turtle on February 21, 2018, 10:41:09 AM
This is fantastic.

Totally interested in building one of those.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: electric_diaries on February 26, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
Awesome work! I have been following your other threads with great interest.

I would also be very interested in getting one. Maybe if there is enough interest we could do a group buy with SMD stuff already soldered, since it doesn't cost that much extra these days.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: TheJames on February 26, 2018, 10:55:45 PM
I'm interested in this.

With that setup pictured above, you have 8 channels in, 8 channels out on DB25, and then a digital I/O card with USB and wordclock?  Then all you need is a PSU and box and you're ready to roll?

Estimated cost for the boards?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: iampoor1 on February 27, 2018, 04:30:15 AM
Very interested as well. Estimated cost?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Murdock on February 27, 2018, 08:10:36 AM
Sounds great!
Depending on the price, I would also be very interested in a 32x32 Interface.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 28, 2018, 11:36:03 AM
Hello,

I am very happy that there is (still) interest in this project after a so long R&D time.
Here are some prices for the components per board:
Mainboard: ~90€ (without the DSP option it becomes cheaper)
AD/DA-Board 8in, 8out: ~90€
Both prices do not include any quantity discount. I ordered from digikey.
PCBs are on top. PCB prices depend on quantities much more then the components. I think, if you assume 5-10€ per PCB for low quantities, you are on the save side.
So far the cost estimation.

Regarding the SMD stuff: I think we could arrange something like mounting the semiconductors that you only have to do the resistors and capacitors. Please note: The current laws and regulations in the EU make it impossible to sell ready-to-run boards. This would require all the CE/EMC/RoHS/WEEE certification processes eating a lot of money.

I am still waiting that digikey delivers the DACs for the next AD/DA boards. The DACs are currently out of stock and reordered.  :(
Want to expand my prototype to 32 channels in and out.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 28, 2018, 11:38:02 AM

With that setup pictured above, you have 8 channels in, 8 channels out on DB25, and then a digital I/O card with USB and wordclock?  Then all you need is a PSU and box and you're ready to roll?


Exactly!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: lame_turtle on February 28, 2018, 05:52:29 PM
Price is actually really nice. 90 euros for 8 channels being able to expand to 32.. It is crazy, and word clock addition takes it even further. I will be building one of those for sure. Smd soldering is ok with me and I would not be interested if it does increase the cost substantially . Any info on conversion quality ? :)

This is an amazing project.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on March 01, 2018, 03:52:43 PM
The ADC/DAC board contains both chips? So there is no separate ADC board (and it can't be just cut out)?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 02, 2018, 08:47:23 AM
Any info on conversion quality ?

AKM specifies the converters as follows:

ADC: S/N 118dB, S/(N+D) 106dB, 32bit
DAC: S/N 115dB, THD+N -107dB, 32bit

I am running them at 48kHz. Higher sample rates are possible but may require some modifications of the UAC2 firmware, which I have not done yet. But volunteers are welcome since I want to make it open source.

The ADC/DAC board contains both chips? So there is no separate ADC board (and it can't be just cut out)?

Yes, there is only one board for ADC/DAC. But you can easily leave out the option you don't want and only order and mount e.g. the DAC.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: TheJames on March 09, 2018, 11:52:11 AM
What are the power requirements for the boards?

I'm assuming a +/- 15, +5?  +3.3?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 10, 2018, 05:09:01 AM
They are: +/- 15V (or +/-12V) for analog domain and  +5V min. for digital domain.
There is also an option to run the AD/DA boards with +12V only.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 10, 2018, 05:14:44 AM
@all: I am currently preparing the beta release. What do you think: Does it make sense to combine the basic configuration of USB Interface and one AD/DA board on one big PCB (thus, the two PCBs in the picture above a merged to one PCB) and add the other channels (analog or digital) by expansion cards? That would simplify the wiring a bit.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Murdock on March 10, 2018, 08:29:07 AM
This would mean USB interface plus 8 in 8 out on one board and each expension cards would also be 8 in 8 out?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 10, 2018, 09:09:55 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: TheJames on March 10, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
Thanks for the power info.

I might be off base, but wouldn't there be an option of digital or analog I/O?  If so, then it might be a good idea to keep the interface separate from the I/O.

I would maybe imagine an analog only I/O interface with 8-32 I/O's or maybe 16 Analog and 16 digital, or solely digital I/O.

Perhaps separate is best.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 10, 2018, 11:05:50 AM
I am already working on a 8io AES3 (S/P-DIF) board that can be used instead. But that will still take some weeks. I want to finish the USB and the analog I/O boards first.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: john12ax7 on March 11, 2018, 03:33:31 AM
Having things separate and modular is good.

I would be interested in something straightforward,  8 or16 channel d/a, aes in,  analog out.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on March 11, 2018, 02:46:49 PM
Well. the 8 outputs would probably be enough for many so what would be needed is just more A/D channels. AFAIK there are no multi-channel ADC's available anywhere but there are many multi-channel DAC boards (miniDSP,  DIYINHK etc.). Also there is a slightly better AKM ADC chip available, the AK5578EN which is pin-compatible with the AK5558, and it's not much more expensive ($10 to be exact). However, if the PCB manufacturing cost is about the same for bare A/D vs. combined board it doesn't really matter. Just wondering the need for the FPGA or DSP as the XCore processor is quite powerful, on Diystompboxes there is another Xcore project where one is being used for cabinet simulation and guitar fx (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=114354.0), also there is software for ADAT I/O.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on March 12, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Btw. regarding the converter specs, the AKM ADC's have fancy parallel modes which allows for higher SNR when less channels are used. So for an example AK5578 in 8:1 mode can have 130 dB SNR, and the AK5558 in 8:1 mode 124 dB (127 dB and 121 dB in 8:2 mode). So even the lesser part can be used for very high quality stereo recording (at least if other design details allows it).
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: TheJames on March 13, 2018, 08:01:33 AM
If you considered a standardized footprint for the I/O modules, then you could potentially design a backplane and metalwork that would allow modules to be inserted into a chassis as needed.

Something to ponder.

Speaking of.  If you have some mechanical dimensions for the boards I might be able to get some traction on a rack enclosure for this.

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on April 13, 2018, 10:34:00 AM
Finally the ADC and DAC chips are available again at digikey. Thus, I can continue with building the prototype.  :D
Meanwhile I changed the design a bit to make wiring/stacking easier. You can now connect up to 8 expansion modules to the UAC2 core with a maximum of 32 audio channels in and 32 audio channels out. An audio interface with 32 in and 32 out now easily fits into a 1U rack enclosure.
@James: The board dimensions are:
AD/DA expansion: 120mm x 120mm
UAC2 interface old board: 100mm x 100mm
UAC2 interface new board: 74mm x 240mm
PCBs are already ordered and should arrive in a few days.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on May 11, 2018, 05:00:34 AM
This is amazing ! images from original post are unavailable for me, how does it look ? :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: damianschwartz on May 19, 2018, 04:38:18 AM
This is amazing ! images from original post are unavailable for me, how does it look ? :)
+1!!

Plus, not sure this was discussed before, but, curious how are you balancing I/O ??

Is there software written for it?? is it open ?? could we take a look?

Interested in this project too!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Murdock on June 10, 2018, 06:39:38 AM
Any news for this great project?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on June 13, 2018, 12:11:52 PM
Yes. I made a lot of progress with prototype B.
I am currently busy with the last few bugfixes and preparing everything for final release (BOMs, Gebers...).
I expect that end of June UAC2 interface board and AD/DA board are available for those how want to build it.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: bremusound on June 13, 2018, 01:36:15 PM
I am already working on a 8io AES3 (S/P-DIF) board that can be used instead. But that will still take some weeks. I want to finish the USB and the analog I/O boards first.
Will those work @ 96khz ?
Thanks for your great work!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on June 13, 2018, 02:07:18 PM
96kHz will be doable. It needs to be enabled in the software of the UAC2-interface.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: highly on June 21, 2018, 07:46:35 AM
Awesome project. Very interested when it is available!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on June 23, 2018, 05:19:25 PM
Made some progress today:
In case that the DSP is not used, the USB microcontroller needs to talk directly to the DACs, but the microcontroller does not put out the TDM stream in a way the DAC understands. It is not implemented in the DAC. Well, the DSP can output the right signals for the DAC... Instead of hacking the manufacturers libraries for the microcontroller  I made some VHDL code that converts the signals for the DAC.
In detail: The microcontroller puts out the data with on BCLK period  delay after rising edge of LRCK while the DAC only supports data without any delay after rising edge of LRCK.
Took me an afternoon, to find this out.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on June 27, 2018, 04:51:39 PM
Do you mean that when you set the FSYNC_OFFSET to zero in xcore app it does't honor that setting? There is no LRCK in TDM, just the FSYNC. You can combine somehow I2S and TDM if you need to use both at the same time but I guess you have to use left justified PCM mode instead of I2S then with the zero-offset TDM, or I2S with one-clock-offset TDM.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on June 28, 2018, 04:08:11 AM
You are right, in TDM mode LRCK should be renamed FSYNC.
The main difference between TDM and I2S besides clock period offsets is that TDM syncs on rising edge of FSYNC while I2S syncs on falling edge of FSNYC (=LRCK), but that wasn't the problem.
It was simply that I could not found a working combination and hey, the additional shift register inside the MachXO2 solves the problem.  ;)

I am currently busy with testing the second AD/DA-Board connected.  :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on June 28, 2018, 05:03:26 AM
Looked at some XMOS TDM examples (xmos/lib_i2s on Github) where they have used CS4384 DAC, and the CS4384 datasheet says:

Code: [Select]
The TDM serial audio interface format operates in Single-, Double-, or Quad-Speed Mode and will slave
to SCLK at 256 Fs. Data is received most significant bit first on the first SCLK after an LRCK transition
and is valid on the rising edge of SCLK. LRCK identifies the start of a new frame and is equal to the sample
rate, Fs. LRCK is sampled as valid on the rising SCLK edge preceding the most significant bit of the first
data sample and must be held valid for one SCLK period.

So they are using LRCK and SCLK signal names, and let us know that the LRCK must be valid one SCLK period before first data bit. Maybe they haven't just tested their software with other TDM input DAC's which don't have that one sample period offset.
Seems they have also changed the architecture of I2S/TDM lib from sample based to frame based at some point to save processing time.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: flamango on July 16, 2018, 10:42:45 PM
I am definitely interested in this project and will take a board when available.  I also may be able to contribute to the code if needed -- My day job is a firmware developer  :) 
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on July 30, 2018, 12:09:57 PM
Good news. I made progress and I am now busy with making everything ready for a first release with a basic configuration. Currently I need to check a license issue of some source code parts before uploading it all to github.

I expect to have some boards available end of August.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on July 30, 2018, 02:09:01 PM
That's great news
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: MetalD on July 30, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
You're a true hero putting in all this work for years then sharing it publicly
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: JuanV on July 31, 2018, 04:19:52 AM
I very much like this project and I will take a board when available. Thanks for your work and sharing.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 04, 2018, 12:28:11 PM
Hi,

today I have a picture of the finished and working prototype for you. This is already the final layout. You can stack up to 8 expansion boards and use up to 32 input and 32 outputs channels.
On this prototype I have connected 2 analog IO expansion boards giving 16 analog input and 16 analog output channels. All audio channels are balanced, connectors are Sub-D 25 with Tascam pin layout.
Please note, to make prototyping a bit easier I have put the gerber files of the USB mainboard and of the two expansion boards on just one panel. They are still connected only by cables. Thus, there is no difference to the planned release. Expansion boards are connected by a flatband ribbon cable. You can make two stacks of 4 boards each. On each stack the expansion boards are daisy chained. Therefore, very easy to handle. That's why I have choosen this new layout.
With the given layout it is possible to make a 32in/32out interface with a 1U enclosure.
What I have not connected yet is the wordclock I/O. This is only a board with two BNCs that will be connected to the red MicroMatch header next to the USB connector by a flatband ribbon cable.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on August 04, 2018, 12:56:56 PM
So cooooool  :o
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: JuanV on August 04, 2018, 01:55:36 PM
"IO expansion boards giving 16 analog input and 16 analog output channels. All audio channels are balanced, connectors are Sub-D 25 with Tascam pin layout"

Can you add also simple connector for ribbon cable to board before Sub-D ? Another PCB (with XLR connectors, or something) can be connected via ribbon and no Sub-D. Just idea :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: Rmuar on August 04, 2018, 02:12:07 PM
Thank you so much. The thank you I am trying to give is not satisfactory with how thankful I am that you are creating this and sharing this with others.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 04, 2018, 02:31:01 PM
"IO expansion boards giving 16 analog input and 16 analog output channels. All audio channels are balanced, connectors are Sub-D 25 with Tascam pin layout"

Can you add also simple connector for ribbon cable to board before Sub-D ? Another PCB (with XLR connectors, or something) can be connected via ribbon and no Sub-D. Just idea :)

Take a closer look to the prototype, this connector is already there.  ;)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: JuanV on August 04, 2018, 02:34:58 PM
Sorry I missed him  :-[,  You think about everything :) 
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: letterbeacon on August 06, 2018, 05:51:14 AM
This looks amazing - very impressive!

Does someone need to write drivers for it to work with Pro Tools/ Logic etc.?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 06, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
If there is someone who wants to write such a driver, I am not going to stop him or her. ;-)

ATM it depends on your system. I am working with macOS High Sierra.  The board runs without a driver installation because an UAC2 driver has been part of macOS for years now.
Microsoft never integrated a UAC2 driver until Win10. Although they have been a member of UAC2 specification group. But now they claim that Win10 comes with a UAC2 driver, finally.
For other Windows versions Thesyscon, CEntrance or Ploytec offer universal drivers.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: letterbeacon on August 08, 2018, 07:20:55 AM
Great, so an OSX user could have all 32 ins and outs (if using the expansion board) available in Pro Tools right away, without any special software?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 08, 2018, 04:22:27 PM
Yes.
macOS rulez!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on August 11, 2018, 08:58:07 AM
The Windows 10 (from release 1703 on)  UAC2 driver has been developed by Thesycon and is supported by MS:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/usb-2-0-audio-drivers

I can't see there's any limitation to the number of channels (expressed in bNbrChannels field in USB Audio devices format descriptor).
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: highly on August 12, 2018, 09:43:18 AM
I have an XMOS-200 carrier board from DIYINHK that I have been working with in a similar configuration. It creates 24 channels of audio out to an ADAU1452 over 3x TDM-8 busses. I have been using the Thesycon demo driver for testing because the Microsoft 2.0 driver will not enumerate the device with the error 'This device cannot start (Code 10). The request is not supported'. It works properly with the Thesycon demo driver, but that driver has beeps every 30 seconds. The Windows USB Audio 2.0 may require additional work to be functional.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 12, 2018, 03:01:06 PM
I have an XMOS-200 carrier board from DIYINHK that I have been working with in a similar configuration. It creates 24 channels of audio out to an ADAU1452 over 3x TDM-8 busses. I have been using the Thesycon demo driver for testing because the Microsoft 2.0 driver will not enumerate the device with the error 'This device cannot start (Code 10). The request is not supported'. It works properly with the Thesycon demo driver, but that driver has beeps every 30 seconds. The Windows USB Audio 2.0 may require additional work to be functional.

Interesting. Seems that Microsoft is still not able to make an usable OS.  ;) The code 10 does not say anything except that even the system does not now what went wrong. I saw this error very often on Win7 and usually it was a broken driver or a conflict between multiple drivers. Usually reinstalling and therefore, restarting with a clean system solved it. Well, this is now years ago.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: highly on August 12, 2018, 03:17:10 PM
That may very well be the case.
I didn't mean to derail the thread with 'my problems', only to add that I hadn't had any luck myself using that driver with the XMOS generated firmware. I made the effort to use the MS driver before installing anything else and wasn't willing to troubleshoot beyond that point when I knew there was an easy development solution at the time.  The fix may well have been a minor one and I will probably try another machine soon to see if I can identify what went wrong now that I know the interface is functional. I am a beginner at software work and this project has required more than a little personal growth to get functional. I applaud your professional effort and the exceptional work!

Out of curiosity, why the inclusion of the FPGA in the design? Incompatibility with the ADAU output format for the chosen DAC? I reread post 39 and answered my own dumb question.

Update: Tried on an otherwise driver-clean Win10 install. Here are the results: https://photos.app.goo.gl/CdbHG8zuR9ZaUsQp7
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on August 17, 2018, 11:17:44 AM
The driver enumerates bu does it work?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: highly on August 17, 2018, 11:24:40 AM
Per the images, no. The Windows10 USB2 driver does not work.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: ZekeProductions on August 22, 2018, 04:41:46 PM
Wow, what an amazing project. I would love to buy one and test it out.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: pioneersfx on August 28, 2018, 01:56:09 AM
Hey everybody!
I became a member of this forum cause I'm really interested in this project and would like to build one for myself.
Are there any news on when the gerber-files or boards will be available?
All the best and thank you so much for this wonderful project!
Tobias.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on August 29, 2018, 03:08:54 PM
Hi,

I will have some boards available for sale in 2-3weeks. At the same time git repositories will go online. I am currently busy with making some build instructions. You know it, the documentation always takes most of the time.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: pioneersfx on August 30, 2018, 02:52:20 AM
That sounds awesome.
I'll be waiting! :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on September 16, 2018, 08:14:52 AM
Hey rkn80, i'm super interested in this project ! Is there any way i can help ?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on September 16, 2018, 08:23:05 AM
Have you already made clock jitter measurement ?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 06, 2018, 05:16:34 AM
Good morning!

I have good news for those who want to get PCBs: I have decided to sell the PCBs via www.tindie.com.
This seems to be the most easiest way. I will order a batch of all PCBs this week and make them available on Tindie.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on October 06, 2018, 10:18:12 AM
great idea !
can't wait
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on October 11, 2018, 02:20:26 PM
I see you released the files for the expansion boards. I might get started on putting on a mouser basket  ;)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: JuanV on October 11, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
Where are these files ?  Thx.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on October 11, 2018, 04:54:42 PM
Where are these files ?  Thx.
Freedsp github, analogio-x8
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 12, 2018, 03:20:41 PM
Yes, the expansion board for analog i/o are released. The board name is AnalogIO-x8.
You can also visit www.freedsp.cc (http://www.freedsp.cc)
There you will find a "Getting Started" file and a digikey basket.

I am currently busy with making a Getting Started document for the mainboard. Hopefully I will finish it this weekend.

Meanwhile, here are some pictures from the prototype with four AnalogIO-x8 boards giving 32 input and 32 output channels.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 12, 2018, 03:23:07 PM
Side view
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on October 17, 2018, 02:09:53 AM
Hi

Congratulations by this awesome project.

I am trying to compile the xmos sources but I have errors.
I can perfectly compile the original xmos files contained in the zip file sw_usb_audio- [sw] _6.15.2rc1.

However, when I try to compile the sources of infinite XMOS I get the error:

In file included from ../src/extensions/audiohw.xc:39:
../src/extensions\dspfw_IC_1.h:449:2: error: unknown function identifier `i2c_shared_master_write_reg16 '(possibly missing prototype?)

It is my mistake ?

Regards
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 17, 2018, 03:47:03 AM
You are really fast, there are no official links on freedsp.cc yet and you found already the git repository for the mainboard.  ;)

I think it is my fault, forgot to copy a file to the repository. Will fix it later this day. Meanwhile you can comment out the call of i2c_shared_master_write_reg16.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on October 17, 2018, 04:16:44 AM


Certainly, I am very interested in building this project, I am really impatient   ;-)

I will wait for you to correct it to continue studying and learning from this great project.

Regards



Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 17, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
becario, I have added the missing things. It should now build.
Background: Due to the license of XMOS, I cannot commit the whole workspace/framework and have to filter out my changes by hand for committing only them.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on October 18, 2018, 10:26:08 AM

Thank you very much. I have checked  and now the code  can compile without errors.

Best regards
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 18, 2018, 11:25:32 AM
Very good.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 21, 2018, 05:37:38 AM
The sources of the project are now officially released!
Please visit www.freedsp.cc for it.
The boards related to this project are Infinitas and AnalogIO-x8.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 23, 2018, 04:15:22 AM
The boards are now available on tindie.com!

The Infinitas mainboard:
https://www.tindie.com/products/auverdion/freedsp-infinitas/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/auverdion/freedsp-infinitas/)

The AnalogIO-x8 expansion board:
https://www.tindie.com/products/auverdion/freedspx-analogio-x8/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/auverdion/freedspx-analogio-x8/)

Enjoy!

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: bernatvm on October 23, 2018, 04:28:57 AM
Wow, looks amazing. I have some questions though... first one is if this is a suitable project for me if I've never soldered smd and only programmed a tiny bit of java.

The other question is if this interface (conversion quality) is going to sound better than a similar priced retail one. Thanks!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 23, 2018, 07:03:02 AM
bernatvm,

well, it is not so difficult to solder SMDs. You basically need a solder iron with a fine tip. In my GettingStarted tutorials I am giving some youtube links, how to solder the difficult components. Anyway, if you never have done SMDs at all, I recommend to practice with some cheap components first. Soldering some SMDs on these THT/DIP adapter boards is a good way for practicing.

You don't need programming skills to get it up and running. Only if you want to to modifications you need some C skills.

What do you mean with "similar priced retail one"? There are not so many USB interfaces with that high number of channels, and those, that exist are very expensive. Thus, I never ordered one just for comparing.  ;)

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: stybljan on October 23, 2018, 09:45:57 AM
Hi rkn80,

I am very interested in this project. Good job.
I have a question about monitoring.
Can this interface direct monitoring? And what about the latency if I will set the monitoring in DAW.   
 
Thanks a lot,
Jan
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 23, 2018, 04:05:04 PM
Can you specify a bit more what you mean with direct monitoring?

The analog inputs are all accessible on pin headers. Thus, you could make a little mixer board and feed that to a line or headphone out.
If you want to control the direct monitor mix like selecting only a few channels  then you may want to use the DSP for it.
Since this is all done in the hardware itself the latency is very very low but depends a bit on how you implement it.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: stybljan on October 23, 2018, 06:14:09 PM
Yes, i mean control the mix.I don't have a big experience with programing the dsp so the hw mixer is not a bad idea. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on October 24, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
XMOS USB audio stack already contains digital mixer which can be controlled from host via USB.

https://www.xmos.com/developer/published/usb-audio-software-design-guide

See Ch. 3.6 Digital Mixer page 30

Problem is there is no proper application for control, only some command line application:

"The mixer can be controlled from a host PC by sending requests to Endpoint 0.
XMOS provides a simple command line based sample application demonstrating
how the mixer can be controlled."

However, the API makes it possible to route inputs directly to wanted outputs so you can make multiple monitor mixes for an example quite easily.

Edit: The XMOS mixer app sources can be found only on this old version of USB software:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B02Djez6mNL2SHhMM0lRSFFBdDQ/view

Look for folder xmos_usb_aud_l2\host_usb_mixer_control

Don't know how to port this app to MacOS or Linux as they have their own USB APIs.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on October 24, 2018, 03:37:57 PM
Regarding the converters, not mentioned anywhere but I think it is possible to use AK5578 (SNR 121dB) to replace the AK5558 (115dB) but it will cost more ($10/chip).  Also the converters can be paralleled, so you can feed the same input to all A/D channels and get much better SNR (130 dB for the AK5578 and 124 dB for AK5558) for the resulting mono channel.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 24, 2018, 03:53:00 PM
XMOS USB audio stack already contains digital mixer which can be controlled from host via USB.

https://www.xmos.com/developer/published/usb-audio-software-design-guide

See Ch. 3.6 Digital Mixer page 30

Problem is there is no proper application for control, only some command line application:

"The mixer can be controlled from a host PC by sending requests to Endpoint 0.
XMOS provides a simple command line based sample application demonstrating
how the mixer can be controlled."

However, the API makes it possible to route inputs directly to wanted outputs so you can make multiple monitor mixes for an example quite easily.

Yes, you need to write a software to control the mixing function of the XMOS. I do not restrict that. It is open hardware.  You are free to do that. ;-) But this is more a nice addon.
So far the interface works without any additional software and therefore, I focussed on the hardware. Nevertheless, it should be mentioned that I am already working on a software, that makes routing and controlling (including the DSP) very easy. But the DigitalIO board and the ADAT board have currently higher priority.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 24, 2018, 03:56:43 PM
Regarding AK5578:
I took a short look on the datasheet. It seems to be possible, to upgrade with this chip. There might be some small changes in the I2C configuration needed, I have not compared the register values, yet. But I will do that later.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on October 28, 2018, 06:27:52 PM

Hi


it is possible to program the MatchXO2 with a FT232RL  or I need a FT2232  ?

Regards

Jose
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on October 29, 2018, 11:52:04 AM
I have never tested it, but since only one serial port is needed, it should be possible. Thus, if you have already a FT232 then I would try it first before buying a FT2232.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 08, 2018, 03:11:25 AM
becario, did it work  with the FT232?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on November 10, 2018, 11:44:44 AM
becario, did it work  with the FT232?

Hi.

I do not know yet . On Friday I received the printed circuits and now I have to mount them.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/az8nzl.jpg).
Diamond programmer detects the FT232RL, but it is necessary to check if it really programs it.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/5tryo5.jpg)
Regards

Jose

.



Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 11, 2018, 09:21:54 AM
OK, good.

Let me know if you have any troubles with building it.
Since you are the only one who bought PCBs yet, this will show wether the documentation is good enough for sucessfully building an Infinitas.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: becario on November 12, 2018, 01:18:06 PM


Ok, i will do.
I think I will not have problems when it comes to building it, with the documentation provided I think that is enough.
thanks  for the support.

Regards
Jose
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on November 13, 2018, 09:45:40 AM
boards ordered ! let's make a 32 I/O interface
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 13, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Thank you!
Boards shipped! Make a 32 I/O interface.  ;)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on November 13, 2018, 10:14:01 AM
I will. not a fan of digikey so if there's a mouser basket laying around...
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 14, 2018, 03:27:36 AM
Sorry, I don't have a mouser basket.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 26, 2018, 03:19:08 PM
Great news for Win10-users:
Infinitas does work with Windows 10 almost out-of-the-box.
Steps I did:

1. Connect Infinitas with the computer. Windows should now enumerate the USB device and load the built-in usbaudio2 driver.
2. Installed asio4all. Infinitas should appear in the control panel.
3. Selected Infinitas in the asio4all control panel as input/output device.
4. Loaded Plogue Bidule and tada, there was 32in/32out duplex audio device.
5. Test: Made a physical loopback connection on the audio connectors and in Bidule send a sinus to the outputs and connected a wave viewer to any of the inputs. And well there I could see sinus coming in.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on November 26, 2018, 03:39:35 PM
good job man !
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dropix on November 27, 2018, 06:54:15 AM

Hi

A question .....  can the interface work at 384hkz ?
Regards

Jose
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on November 27, 2018, 08:02:08 AM
A question .....  can the interface work at 384hkz ?

No, it cannot. Currently it works at 48kHz and the next software mod will be 96kHz.
But expansion boards with digital I/Os (SPDIF, AES3, ADAT) have currently higher priority.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: pixael on December 18, 2018, 06:03:30 AM
Hiya, are the ins and outs on the 8io balanced expansion board DC Coupled? I am interested in the infinitas for a mega eurorack project.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 18, 2018, 07:57:49 AM
i don't think you can, because of DC decoupling caps on outputs..
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 18, 2018, 08:28:27 AM
for the infinitas main board oscilator OSC101 : can i take one that's HCMOS output only, not HCMOS TTL ?

i'm talking about this one : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/IDT/XLH536024576000I?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8zWNA7msRChwFtBbqVRMQooU%252boz4o2lm%2fBDggLNkYZA%3d%3d
which looks more stable than the one in the BOM : https://www.digikey.fr/products/fr?keywords=300-8253-1-ND

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on December 20, 2018, 08:25:06 AM
Hiya, are the ins and outs on the 8io balanced expansion board DC Coupled? I am interested in the infinitas for a mega eurorack project.

As dasnevestheo said, ther eare dc blocking caps, because the DAC (like many others) have a voltage offset on their output pins.
But excuse my stupid question, why should the AC coupling prevent it from use in eurorack? Well, actually I am not aware of the requirements of eurorack, let's have a look.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 08:27:40 AM
DC coupled interfaces like Motu allows to send DC control voltage to controls eurorack synths (pitch, filters, etc)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 08:28:26 AM
but this does a far better job : https://www.tindie.com/products/hotchk155/cvocd-a-super-flexible-midi-to-cv-box/

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on December 20, 2018, 08:30:25 AM
for the infinitas main board oscilator OSC101 : can i take one that's HCMOS output only, not HCMOS TTL ?

i'm talking about this one : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/IDT/XLH536024576000I?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8zWNA7msRChwFtBbqVRMQooU%252boz4o2lm%2fBDggLNkYZA%3d%3d
which looks more stable than the one in the BOM : https://www.digikey.fr/products/fr?keywords=300-8253-1-ND

Yes, should do the job. Make sure that you order the right package.

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on December 20, 2018, 08:32:34 AM
DC coupled interfaces like Motu allows to send DC control voltage to controls eurorack synths (pitch, filters, etc)

Ah, ok! Well, CV was not the idea of infinitas.  ;)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 08:41:15 AM
Yes, should do the job. Make sure that you order the right package.

damn, the pinout is indeed not right... after that i'm done with the mouser BOM / baskets ;)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 08:51:24 AM
can't seem to find an oscillator in that package that's bellow 50ppm... it's a shame cause a 20ppm oscillator could really improve the design ain't it ?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 09:10:43 AM
anyway, here's my updated BOM for the infinitas main board.
Here's the mouser basket link : https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=93321cb3da

only things missing are XE216-512-TQ128 and 64 pin IDC socket... if anyone knows a mouser ref...

here's the DSP option basket : https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=cd5757c942

still working on the analog 8x I/O bom
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on December 20, 2018, 11:14:49 AM
Wow, without having checked your mouser basket mouser seems to be much cheaper then digikey.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on December 20, 2018, 12:01:41 PM
that's why i do that. i've been using it for so long i know some very cheap and reliable brands.
most film and electrolitic capacitors are now Panasonic and Nichicon, which is nice :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: LCoggan on January 05, 2019, 10:15:23 PM
So I’ve just skimmed through this thread and the old one and had to create an account so I could join in.

I’ve been struggling for ages to find a cheap way of recording multiple audio channels on to my computer and keep them separate. After finding out how expensive it was going to be I did my usual thing of thinking ‘well surely it can’t be hard to just make one myself’. After a small amount of research I soon realised how complex this subject is and how wrong I was about it not being difficult.

Then I stumbled across this feed and my prayers were answered. I was so close to believing I was the only person ever to have such specific needs and a desire to DIY. 

I’ve had a quick look at the Infinitas boards and I’m not 100% what specifically they allow for. My personal needs are multiple XLR inputs (around 12 at least), and a USB output that I can connect to my PC to record all the channels as separate tracks. Will Infinitas cover this?

I’m very interested in this project (especially considering it saves me doing the R&D myself, not that I wouldn’t enjoy the process, I just have a busy life). Really looking forward to hearing back from you.

Liam.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on January 06, 2019, 10:28:00 AM
Liam,

nice that you found this thread!

For your configuration you would need the [Infinitas] core board and two Analog-IO-x8 expansion boards. That will give you 16 channels In and 16 channels out, full-duplex, all balanced.
For XLR you can either use a standard Sub-D-to-XLR cable (Tascam pinout) or connect the XLRs directly to the IDC connector directly behind the SubD on the PCBs.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on January 06, 2019, 01:05:52 PM
But keep in mind that those are Line inputs. If you are pluging microphones, you need a microphone preamp between the microphone and the infinitas input
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: bernatvm on January 07, 2019, 03:44:30 AM
Do you need any special tools to program the chips or they are programmed already?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: LCoggan on January 07, 2019, 12:46:15 PM
Thanks. Could I use a standard amplifier circuit as a mic preamp with gain control on the output or is it more complex than that? Do you think I’d be better off with an opamp?
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on January 08, 2019, 04:45:36 AM
Do you need any special tools to program the chips or they are programmed already?

You need am xTAG to program the XMOS-device for 19$ from digikey as stated in the documentation.

If you want to use the DSP option you can either use a USBi ( from Analog or from the freeDSP project) or program the DSP via the XMOS device on the [Infinitas] core board. For the second option you don't need an extra tool once you have the xTAG programmer.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on January 08, 2019, 04:47:21 AM
Thanks. Could I use a standard amplifier circuit as a mic preamp with gain control on the output or is it more complex than that? Do you think I’d be better off with an opamp?

The only requirement is to have a +6dBu output balanced at the output of your mic preamp. How you make the mic preamp is then a question of your personal taste.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: iampoor1 on January 08, 2019, 04:20:43 PM
Where are you guys sourcing the AK4558 from? Digikey in the USA doesnt have any stock and a 20 week lead time.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on January 08, 2019, 05:09:06 PM
no clue yet...
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: iampoor1 on January 08, 2019, 09:28:30 PM
Hmmm,Im beginning to wonder if the 4458/2/4/6 is being discontinued. Looks like digikey has ever other 8 channel DAC AKM makes in stock!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on January 13, 2019, 08:19:20 AM
Hi,

too bad, digikey is the only source for the AK4458 in very small quantities.
I saw this issue happening with digikey earlier already, sometime they just run out of stock. In December the AK4458 was still available.
According to the AKM website the AK4458 is not EOL. And it is unlikely because they have no 8-channel replacement yet.
According to digikey the AK4458 can be delivered on 2/20/2019. I just put one in my basket and checked delivery time.

Raphael
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on January 13, 2019, 08:21:32 AM
You need am xTAG to program the XMOS-device for 19$ from digikey as stated in the documentation.

If you want to use the DSP option you can either use a USBi ( from Analog or from the freeDSP project) or program the DSP via the XMOS device on the [Infinitas] core board. For the second option you don't need an extra tool once you have the xTAG programmer.

I am sorry, I forgot to mention that you also need a usb-to-serial adapter like a ft2232-board to program the FPGA. These boards can be ordered for a few $ from many suppliers. Usually makers have such a device in their toolbox.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on January 13, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
If the AK4458 is unavailable you can use the 6ch version AK4456 which is available on digikey. Obviously you loose 2 channels then. Check datasheet, you'll need just couple of 0 ohm resistors more.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: saleksin on January 29, 2019, 03:35:07 PM
@rkn80
First - congratulations for a very good project, and thanks for sharing it!
I have 3 questions about it.
1. You wrote, that you are working on another digital interface. Have you thought of implementing AES50 interface?
2. Where are you going to plug another digital IF? Is it going to be one of expansion headers, with cost of decreasing analog interfaces, or you are going to design another main board?
3. Could part of design with processor, along with software, be treated as digital audio interface to UAC2, like CP2615 chip?
Thanks in advance for you answer!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on February 03, 2019, 04:43:38 PM
First - congratulations for a very good project, and thanks for sharing it!

Thank you.

1. You wrote, that you are working on another digital interface. Have you thought of implementing AES50 interface?
No I did not think about AES50 yet. I am planning ADAT and AES3. These will be expansion boards.

2. Where are you going to plug another digital IF? Is it going to be one of expansion headers, with cost of decreasing analog interfaces, or you are going to design another main board?
The digital IO expansion boards will be connected on the expansion headers. Because there are 8 expansion headers on the current mainboard  you don't need to decrease the number of analog expansion boards. No need for a new mainboard.

3. Could part of design with processor, along with software, be treated as digital audio interface to UAC2, like CP2615 chip?
Yes the mainboard itself is something like the CP2615, but with more channelsand UAC2 support and a DSP option.

R.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: kolabaer on February 19, 2019, 07:49:17 AM
Hello,
What parts for the power supply do I actually need?

Infinitas + 4 x 8 io

Thank you for this nice project and for your answer
cheers
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on February 19, 2019, 12:04:31 PM
i think a good quality switching PSU should be nice
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: kolabaer on February 19, 2019, 03:54:29 PM
i think a good quality switching PSU should be nice

Thank you for your fast reply!
I have one more question: Can I send 12v to the infinitas and send them through to all 4 "8I/O" boards?

"The AnalogIO-x8 board accepts +/-12V... +/-15V for the analog power supply. In case you only have a +12V supply coming from your freeDSP board you can mount the single supply option around IC104. In this case you need to populate R102 and R105 with 0R00."
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on February 19, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
it seems so
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on February 25, 2019, 05:36:27 AM
So... it's been weeks since digikey's AKM4458 are out of stock.. and they should be in stock in another 20 weeks...
I'd hate to wait this long to finish this project. Anyone has any clue how to get them elsewhere ?

Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on February 25, 2019, 09:48:35 AM
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-original-AK4458VN-AK4458-QFN48/32968960438.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-10PCS-LOT-AK4458-AK5552-QFN48-AK5552VN-AK4458VN/32901851599.html
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on February 25, 2019, 09:50:43 AM
Never checked on ali indeed... But there's lot of fakes on there so... :/
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 04, 2019, 09:25:22 AM
Indeed it is really a disaster with the DAC. Did not expect that.  :(
We can only wait for digikey having it back in stock. AKM does not claim it EOL. I would be happy if somebody can find another source for the chip in small quantities.
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on March 05, 2019, 03:34:17 AM
Seems to be in stock again:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/akm-semiconductor-inc/AK4458VN/974-1082-1-ND/5287011
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: dasnevestheo on March 05, 2019, 12:24:59 PM
:o
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: rkn80 on March 07, 2019, 09:09:40 AM
Well, then heat up the solder irons!
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: mhelin on May 14, 2019, 03:20:34 AM
Now just when I happened to receive the Aurora PCB the AK4458VNs seem to be gone again :(
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: pioneersfx on June 26, 2019, 11:58:26 AM
Did anyone finish his/her build yet?

I'm super curious how well the Infinitas works under pressure :)
Title: Re: [Infinitas]: USB Audio Class 2 Interface, 32 in, 32 out, DSP
Post by: TwentyTrees on July 26, 2019, 03:39:47 AM
I’m also curious about how it behaves in the real world - seems a great solution to scaling up AD/DA without all the bells and whistles you have to buy into with standard commercial offerings, so if anyone has one up and running in the wild I’d love to hear how you’ve found it.

Did anyone finish his/her build yet?

I'm super curious how well the Infinitas works under pressure :)