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General Discussions => Studio A => Topic started by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 12:43:58 PM

Title: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Hey folks!

I'm thinking about selling all my gear and buying new equipment.
I've been using a vintage Yammie for some time, and i really like the colored sound.

Would be great if you guys could recommend some nice vintage consoles.

No more than 8-16 channels

 - Andreas
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: efinque on February 11, 2018, 02:10:41 PM
You could ask around for a used Soundcraft or something... I've seen those go for cheap.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: L´Andratté on February 11, 2018, 02:15:17 PM
Well Soundcraft is not what I think of when I think of coloured sound ;)
Rather try an old TEAC or TASCAM console?
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: efinque on February 11, 2018, 03:00:37 PM
Well Soundcraft is not what I think of when I think of coloured sound ;)

That's true to some extent.. but then again I have nothing to compare, except for an Allen&Heath Zed10FX which I use in my studio (I've used a Soundcraft Spirit for live FOH)

I think it's a trade-off between features, flexibility, ease of use and preamp gain at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: DerEber on February 11, 2018, 03:30:37 PM
The A&H Zed 10 sounds really nice imo..
I would take it over most vintage mixers in that configuration.

best,
Stephan
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 03:42:08 PM
The A&H Zed 10 sounds really nice imo..
I would take it over most vintage mixers in that configuration.

best,
Stephan

A&H mixers are just so boring.. I want something exciting and colorful.
Every time i walk into the room i want to to be able to look at my equipment and be excited about it. It's not a popular opinion, but aesthetics really mean a lot to me when it comes to gear. It makes my workflow more creative and fun.

People would rather drive around in a Ferrari Enzo with a Fiat Multipla engine, than a Fiat Multipla with a Ferrari Enzo engine.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 05:05:27 PM
I'll update my budget to 2500 bucks..
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on February 11, 2018, 08:32:27 PM
Some of the older Amek/Tac are great desks,
probably not an option if your in the US though, heres one on ebay, just for reference .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/amek-bb100-mixing-desk-x-2/162457963040

An Amek Bc3 is a great unit also ,Neve designed Mic amps and output drivers ,Langley designed eq ,its difficult to make things sound bad with them .Funky junk France sometimes has these.

Really for a coloured sound you probably need to be going back to early 80's or 70's and getting something with transformers  on the inputs at least, you'll probably pay a lot for something thats been restored  ,if not it could be a big job to renovate it back to factory spec .

Tac bullet might be one you could find stateside, they come in smaller frame sizes too.Sorry Im not too familiar with US gear from that era ,Im sure a few of the others will chime in with suggestions too though.

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 08:44:10 PM
Some of the older Amek/Tac are great desks,
probably not an option if your in the US though, heres one on ebay, just for reference .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/amek-bb100-mixing-desk-x-2/162457963040

An Amek Bc3 is a great unit also ,Neve designed Mic amps and output drivers ,Langley designed eq ,its difficult to make things sound bad with them .Funky junk France sometimes has these.

Really for a coloured sound you probably need to be going back to early 80's or 70's and getting something with transformers  on the inputs at least, you'll probably pay a lot for something thats been restored  ,if not it could be a big job to renovate it back to factory spec .

Tac bullet might be one you could find stateside, they come in smaller frame sizes too.Sorry Im not too familiar with US gear from that era ,Im sure a few of the others will chime in with suggestions too though.

I'm from Denmark

Thanks! I'll look into some Amek consoles.
I've also been looking a lot at old TEAC and TASCAM consoles. Mainly because of their looks :) but i'm hearing good things about them
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 11, 2018, 09:02:31 PM
I've been looking a bit on ebay.. here's my finds

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schlumberger-UPS-5124-Broadcast-Mixer/183064539320?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48498%26meid%3D90a9c263da9444afaca7ce9e70f6c43f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D173148361368%26itm%3D183064539320&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCE-vintage-broadcast-18-channel-studio-console/173146535026?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48498%26meid%3D64e5b8b1fc42441cac5d215a34f7d3ce%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D183064539320%26itm%3D173146535026&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quantum-Audio-Labs-QM-168-16-Channel-8-Bus-Studio-Mixer-Console-QM168-30868/183036654041?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48498%26meid%3D8d809634243c4266bb544e904f89e404%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D173146535026%26itm%3D183036654041&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-M8-Mischpult-Mixer-Mixing-Console/122932656925?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48498%26meid%3Dcb69bddf0e784f85a5f5717786a8aebd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122955560824%26itm%3D122932656925&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Pip on February 11, 2018, 09:46:52 PM
Yamaha PM 1000
Yamaha M1516
Yamaha PM 2000
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: ruffrecords on February 12, 2018, 03:23:24 AM
An Amek Bc3 is a great unit also ,Neve designed Mic amps and output drivers ,Langley designed eq ,its difficult to make things sound bad with them .Funky junk France sometimes has these.

That's a new one on me. Can you point to any reference for it?

Edit: I just found an BC3 manual and i does indeed say it has Rupert Neve designed TLA input and output amplifiers. But there is no mention of Langley EQ

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: L´Andratté on February 12, 2018, 03:41:44 AM
If it is working 100% and you can pay take the M8 and never look back!  /Off to gearsluts :)
EDIT: the shown model has no insert jacks, so no direct outs..., It´s never easy ::)
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 12, 2018, 03:48:55 AM
That's a new one on me. Can you point to any reference for it?

Edit: I just found an BC3 manual and i does indeed say it has Rupert Neve designed TLA input and output amplifiers. But there is no mention of Langley EQ

Cheers

Ian

Here you go Ian
https://www.proaudioeurope.com/info/classic-catalogue/amek-consoles/amek-bc3-mixing-console
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: MagnetoSound on February 12, 2018, 05:36:14 AM
Really for a coloured sound you probably need to be going back to early 80's or 70's and getting something with transformers  on the inputs at least, you'll probably pay a lot for something thats been restored  ,if not it could be a big job to renovate it back to factory spec .

... Im sure a few of the others will chime in with suggestions too though.


Alice 828.

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 12, 2018, 05:59:50 AM

Alice 828.

Wow. this looks great!
British?
Discrete?
Belclare transformers?

I might just go ahead and buy two of these and smack them together in a fancy box

Thank you so much!

Edit:
It's impossible to find one up for purchase
If anyone has one, that they want to sell or have a similar mixer. Send me a pm

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: JohnRoberts on February 12, 2018, 11:07:15 AM
Buying an old console may be like buying an old house... the purchase price is not the total cost.

JR
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 12, 2018, 12:04:40 PM
Buying an old console may be like buying an old house... the purchase price is not the total cost.

JR

Hey John!
I'm well aware of the cost of maintaining vintage equipment, if that is what you're referring to.

 - Andreas
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Gold on February 12, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
I concur on the Ambel:Tac. The EQ is great on those. The mic amps on Amek’s get better as you spend more. The mic amps on the TAC sound okay but distort pretty easily.  I  think you you have to get to a 2500 or so before you get great mic amps.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: efinque on February 12, 2018, 02:11:22 PM
I concur on the Ambel:Tac. The EQ is great on those. The mic amps on Amek’s get better as you spend more. The mic amps on the TAC sound okay but distort pretty easily.  I  think you you have to get to a 2500 or so before you get great mic amps.

I've seen stuff like Amek, TAC Scorpion and Trident go for cheap too (the refurbished ones are a bit pricier)

You could also ask a theatre because they might have reasonably big desks too which haven't been used that much.

EDIT : from what I gathered the used Allen & Heath GL-series consoles have been usually toured to death

EDIT 2 : fixed
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 12, 2018, 03:40:31 PM
I've seen stuff like Amek, TAC Scorpion and Trident go for cheap too (the refurbished ones are a bit pricier)

You could also ask a theatre because they might have reasonable big desks too which haven't been used that much.

EDIT : from what I gathered the used Allen & Heath GL-series consoles have been usually toured to death

Oh man.. a Trident would be awesome, but judging from the prices i've seen them go for.. They're way out of my budget.
I've been looking at these Studer clones
Korean made
Use (almost) same parts as an original studer

Owning a Studer has always been a dream of mine, but due to the expensive price, i might just buy a clone

Here's a DSE 269
(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--OlAiLf46--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_1600,q_80,w_1600/v1509929763/j5ckm6qnvf1piyxw4yoq.jpg)
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: ruffrecords on February 12, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
I've been looking at these Studer clones
Korean made
Use (almost) same parts as an original studer


Whatever next. I never knew the Koreans cloned Studers. Did they make cheap Neves too??

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 12, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
Whatever next. I never knew the Koreans cloned Studers. Did they make cheap Neves too??

Cheers

Ian

There's not much information about them.

Here's what i found

"DSE(Dong Seo Electronics) was a pro audio manufacturer, and they provided equipment to broadcast stations in whole Korea in 80's and 90's.

They made clone 169 and 269 series mixer, based on Swiss Studer 169 mixer design, and they were incredibly clone, and they made over 92% same design mixer using same parts or compatible parts.(some of them are same, for example input transformers, knobs, pots,,etc, and some are different part, for example fader. DSE used P&G faders which is way better than original Studer fader)"

 - Andreas
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on February 12, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
I used a very similar Studer a long time ago ,and a very nice mixer it was too ,three band eq with swept mids .
The kinds of small broadcast consoles you showed can be found cheaply enough sometimes although prestige marques go for big money , I see you discovered OD&D as well .

Yeah the BC3 has a mic pre on the mono channels very similar to the 9098 series Amek  , balanced +4db outs on everything including pre and post fader sends using something Neve called hisTLA . Im not 100% as to the design of the eq on it ,it was during Graeme Langleys time with the company though,Matt Syson would know for certain  , three band swept mids and high pass. Some came with vca's some didnt ,they cost fortune new .

The Amek Angela was what I cut my teeth on ,I always found it quick to find the sweet spot on the eqs  ,wasnt quite in the same league pricewise as Neve or SSL's offerings but it packed quite a sonic punch all the same .
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: zamproject on February 12, 2018, 08:46:05 PM
Hello

Whatever next. I never knew the Koreans cloned Studers. Did they make cheap Neves too??

Not a clone as we usually mean it, DSE build (or just assemble?) studer design under kind of licence
For what I know it's more or less a rebrand to accommodate national radio and TV for "korean" product

There's not much information about them.

Here's what i found

"They made clone 169 and 269 series mixer, based on Swiss Studer 169 mixer design, and they were incredibly clone, and they made over 92% same design mixer using same parts or compatible parts.(some of them are same, for example input transformers, knobs, pots,,etc, and some are different part, for example fader. DSE used P&G faders which is way better than original Studer fader)"

Don't know what 92% refere to.... but there is a major change in design... the input preamp is no more discrete like the Studer x69. From pict I saw in the past, the input section show two IC  :-\
I never see inside pic of master module, if they keep the "0ohm" trafo summing with the discrete tweaked LM301 input.
Mechanically it seem the same build quality.

So I'll say if you want the "real" studer 169 sound buy the real thing  ::)

Best
Zam
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on February 12, 2018, 08:51:56 PM
Toft Atb 16 might be worth a look at as well ,
not without its issues though .
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 13, 2018, 04:03:20 AM
I could buy a Studer Revox and mod it?
It's around the size that i need, but it only has a two band eq though
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Timjag on February 13, 2018, 01:19:40 PM
Those stuffer consoles come up from time to time - one on eBay last Christmas.

You should keep your eye out for a cadac board, they were designed by Barry Porter of trident fame as a theatre console and as every bit as good. Especially in the eq department.

It still stuns me that this £100,000 desk now goes for 6k but people don't know about them, mainly because they were built for Andrew Lloyd-Webber's theatres.


http://larkingslist.com/products/second-hand-desk-top-mixers/cadac-e-series
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: pvision on February 13, 2018, 07:41:27 PM
I'll second (or third) the recommendation for an Amek Angela. It's a great inline console which sounds punchy & real, unlike Soundcraft, Soundtracs & etc which I always thought sounded soft & squishy

If you could find a Trident Fleximix I think you'd approve  - it has a sound to it, as does the Angela. Lots of consoles sound meh but I don't think these two do

Nick Froome


Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on February 13, 2018, 08:15:18 PM
Many years ago I found an old Trident Fleximix frame , four input channels and the master bus were left in it ,got it fairly cheap , did some renovation work on it ,but the tantalums in the signal path kept shorting and the Ic's would start smoking , I cut my losses with it in the end and scrapped it ,I of course kept onto the Zutt transformers which I now use along with other mainly tube pre's. The eq sections contained epoxy potted modules which in retrospect I should have kept also . It certainly was no trident model A ,everything in it was 741 op amp based  I think, I suspect the input transformers ,which have a high stepup ratio added a creaminess on high level sources too .I kinda wish I wasnt so hasty in hackballing  it now ,but no point in crying over spilt milk
at this stage.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Dualflip on February 13, 2018, 10:36:45 PM
I bought my MCI JH528 for around $600 almost 10 years ago, there are good deals out there.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 14, 2018, 07:06:13 AM
I bought my MCI JH528 for around $600 almost 10 years ago, there are good deals out there.

Wow, that's a sexy console. And yeah, that's 10 years ago. In 2018, you can put some 50 dollars trannies in a fancy case and sell it as "Ultra rare summing mixer, custom made - Sounds like Neve and API" and get 3000 bucks for it. Vintage sound is so sought after that people would give their arms and legs to own an old console, so prices are sky high. But sometimes there are some really good deals.

A few years back a guy in my country sold a nice Studer for 1500 bucks on dba.dk (the danish version of craigslist/ebay) I was really tempted to buy it, but it was too far away.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Dualflip on February 14, 2018, 03:34:49 PM
Wow, that's a sexy console. And yeah, that's 10 years ago. In 2018, you can put some 50 dollars trannies in a fancy case and sell it as "Ultra rare summing mixer, custom made - Sounds like Neve and API" and get 3000 bucks for it. Vintage sound is so sought after that people would give their arms and legs to own an old console, so prices are sky high. But sometimes there are some really good deals.

A few years back a guy in my country sold a nice Studer for 1500 bucks on dba.dk (the danish version of craigslist/ebay) I was really tempted to buy it, but it was too far away.

That is true, the vintage gear and audio voodoo market is huge today, im not sure if it will be like that forever, I've seen more and more youngsters leaning more towards the digital stuff rather than analog.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Keala on February 14, 2018, 04:21:42 PM
That is true, the vintage gear and audio voodoo market is huge today, im not sure if it will be like that forever, I've seen more and more youngsters leaning more towards the digital stuff rather than analog.

To be honest, what you can do with plugins today is amazing. I'm actually 17 years old and i'm leaning more towards analog because it has a certain feeling around it. I love that i can turn the knobs and that i don't have to look at a screen for hours when working.

But then again,  equipment is expensive and i'm having great difficult funding my analog adventures. I'm hoping to get a job at a local studio to earn a bit more so i can buy a new mixer and some outboard gear.

 - Andreas

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: MagnetoSound on February 14, 2018, 04:36:36 PM
Nobody has mentioned DDA yet. Perhaps a bit easier to find on this side of the pond, but sonically very pleasing and not expensive if you can find one.

Tbh, for what you need and well within budget, you could probably just track down a Soundcraft 400b and be perfectly happy, no?

Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Dualflip on February 14, 2018, 05:47:40 PM
To be honest, what you can do with plugins today is amazing. I'm actually 17 years old and i'm leaning more towards analog because it has a certain feeling around it. I love that i can turn the knobs and that i don't have to look at a screen for hours when working.

But then again,  equipment is expensive and i'm having great difficult funding my analog adventures. I'm hoping to get a job at a local studio to earn a bit more so i can buy a new mixer and some outboard gear.

 - Andreas

Dont spend all your money on gear, better save it and do something more useful with it, DIY is a great option. I was like you, wanting gear and making just enough money to spend it on one piece of gear I couldnt afford, after some time, I ended up selling most of my outboard equipment with the exception of my console which I will never sell because it took all of my blood and sweat to make it fully work, and im too attached to it. I ended up spending more on test equipment and technical books, hey im single with no mouths to feed but my own, so I can pretty much do anything I want with my hard earned money.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: abbey road d enfer on March 05, 2018, 07:14:24 PM
Well Soundcraft is not what I think of when I think of coloured sound ;)
Rather try an old TEAC or TASCAM console?
? Being very familiar with both, I wouldn't consider them as significantly different. They share a very similar topology, transformerless mic inputs, TL072's and 5532's. The only difference is the lower operating level of the Tascam, that would put it in an even more neutral category.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: jstark on March 07, 2018, 11:39:55 AM
Soundcraft 200b/400b/600 and call it a day.

Over time you can replace the PSU, replace/upgrade the master section and recap the channels.  Performing all of this on my 200b has it sounding the opposite of soft and squishy.


David
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on March 09, 2018, 06:53:51 PM
Ive used a few of the older soundcraft mixers over the years too ,I have to say I liked them ,just seemed to have a good balance of features and sound for the price ,layout was just right too ,everything where you expected it to be .
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: gltech on April 19, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
I'll second (or third) the recommendation for an Amek Angela. It's a great inline console which sounds punchy & real, unlike Soundcraft, Soundtracs & etc which I always thought sounded soft & squishy

If you could find a Trident Fleximix I think you'd approve  - it has a sound to it, as does the Angela. Lots of consoles sound meh but I don't think these two do

Nick Froome

+1 on the Angela. Keala, they're taking offers:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amek-Angela-28-Channel-Analog-Recording-Console/292470493578?hash=item441899918a:g:1K4AAOSwl~Vam2jX (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amek-Angela-28-Channel-Analog-Recording-Console/292470493578?hash=item441899918a:g:1K4AAOSwl~Vam2jX)
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 21, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
Never buy a used console,   ::)  and especially don't expect support from the designer decades later......  8)

JR
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: zamproject on April 21, 2018, 09:28:09 AM
Never buy a used console,   ::)  and especially don't expect support from the designer decades later......  8)

JR

Hey JR

Is that a call for an AMR ?  :-X
 8)
Best
Zam
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 21, 2018, 09:53:22 AM
Hey JR

Is that a call for an AMR ?  :-X
 8)
Best
Zam
I literally responded to a PM (on another forum) about an old 32x16 AMR console last weekend. He got the console for free, and apparently the service advice too. 

He said next time I'm in Portugal to give him a call.  ::)

JR
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: zamproject on April 21, 2018, 10:26:37 AM
I literally responded to a PM (on another forum) about an old 32x16 AMR console last weekend. He got the console for free, and apparently the service advice too. 

He said next time I'm in Portugal to give him a call.  ::)

JR

Haha  :)
Nice one  ;)
Best
Zam
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: abbey road d enfer on April 21, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
don't expect support from the designer decades later......  8)
neither from the company, particularly if it doesn't exist anymore (DDA, Soundtracs, Crest, Helios...)

BTW, I also sometimes have requests for one of the units I designed a number of years ago.
I'm torn between sorry for the poor guy who's gonna have to find unobtainable parts (pots and switches) and pride over the fact that he thinks it's still worth keeping.
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: fazer on April 23, 2018, 11:08:54 AM
Consoles are like old cars. Except old cars have more available parts with new suppliers .   
You have to think like cars in Cuba.  People come up with a way to keep them running.  I hope I’m ok after all the spray cleaner I’ve used over the years. 
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Tubetec on April 25, 2018, 07:08:10 PM
Heres a little jem from way back ,not top of the range by any means ,but for the money if I already hadnt something better Id snap that up fast ,looks as close to immaculate as mother Mary herself ,

https://www.adverts.ie/mixing-desks/soundcraft-200b-mixing-desk/15287981

I am slightly biased,the 200B was the mixer I cut my teeth on first time round the loop ,fixed bands on all eq's not quite pro level stuff,but I bet its got more soul than a Behringer or a Mackie any day .The psu goes for more on squeebay than the cost of this unit .
Title: Re: Recommend a 1000$ vintage console
Post by: Whoops on August 22, 2018, 04:52:13 AM
Why do you need a console?

I recommend you keep the $1000 for Holidays and take the oportunity of changing equipment to understand that an analog console will not improve your sound and that you are better off without having to deal with the problems an analog console brings

My 2 cents