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General Discussions => Brewery => Topic started by: john12ax7 on March 05, 2019, 06:47:14 PM

Title: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: john12ax7 on March 05, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
Spent a prolonged period bent over at the bench yesterday,  no issues until I stood up,  then it hurt just to walk,  and only somewhat better today.

Has this happened to anyone else? I'm guessing I stayed in one position too long which strained the muscles.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: pucho812 on March 05, 2019, 06:50:07 PM
Yes I have had that happen before. Being hunched over for long periods does not do a body good.
I have found what worked for me to keep that at a minimum to not at all is as follow.
1. Stretch and walk around every so often
2.change style of seats and position of sitting.
3. in extreme cases wear a back brace and or use a heating pad.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Matador on March 05, 2019, 06:52:32 PM
A few good beers takes care of that.  My current favorite:

(https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/607076/files/5366025/new-holland-brewing-dragons-milk-bourbon-barrel-ag.jpg)
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: john12ax7 on March 05, 2019, 07:06:23 PM
Ha, I tried the beer remedy last night.  That looks tasty,  where do they sell it? The Elysian espresso milk stout is great too if you like that style.

For the work part I think the frequent break,  stretch,  walking is good advice.  Should set an alarm reminder for next time,  and probably raise the bench up too.  Will also give the heat pack a try.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: pucho812 on March 05, 2019, 07:58:22 PM
A few good beers takes care of that.  My current favorite:

(https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/607076/files/5366025/new-holland-brewing-dragons-milk-bourbon-barrel-ag.jpg)

wow... looks delish
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Matador on March 05, 2019, 08:54:54 PM
I just get it at the local BevMo.  You have to be careful, because it's above 11-13% ABV, so after a few you can be on your arse. :)
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: JohnRoberts on March 05, 2019, 09:10:37 PM
could be circulation (blood flow).

Dont do anything without periodic breaks.

JR
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: iampoor1 on March 05, 2019, 11:58:48 PM
Yes I have had this happen (I'm in my mid 20s, no other back problems, so it can happen to anyone!)

Honestly, the best thing I have ever done, minus hourly stretch breaks, is to buy a REALLY ergonomic chair. Helped tremendously! Tho having a 300$ office chair does look funny in front of a bench. :)
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: boji on March 06, 2019, 02:18:38 AM
Quote
Has this happened to anyone else?

I feel your pain dude. :'( :'(    Into my third 1/2 pound solder roll for current project.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: rob_gould on March 06, 2019, 02:24:31 AM
I've suffered a lot with back ache and back pain.  If I were in your situation, lots of walking and gentle stretches would be the order of the day, but without more info I'm wary of making specific suggestions, because what works great for one person might make it worse for another.

In terms of preventative measures, walking and general daily movement goes a long way to minimising back ache, as obvious as this sounds.

When sitting at a desk, it's worth getting up for about ten minutes every hour, if possible, and doing normal daily tasks.  What my manual therapist told me is that it's actually worse to jump out of your chair, do vigorous movements for for 30 - 60 seconds and then sit straight back down again. This actually causes the body stress rather that helping it relax.  Gentle movements for longer is better.

But yeah, getting up periodically to do a job like load the dishwasher, feed the cat, walk to the post box or just do some gentle stretching should really help prevent another episode.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: JohnRoberts on March 06, 2019, 09:59:23 AM
A few good beers takes care of that.  My current favorite:

(https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/607076/files/5366025/new-holland-brewing-dragons-milk-bourbon-barrel-ag.jpg)
I like that label, I brew my own stout (more like a porter these days).  Regarding barrel aged... you don't generally get any benefit from old beer***, sounds like a marketing exploit (and opportunity for contamination).  My beer is aged for "weeks" in glass bottles (no auctions for expensive old bottles of beer).  Just like we don't see cat shows where their owners get cats to jump through hoops and do tricks in a ring.

JR

*** Very high alcohol beers , aka barley wine, does benefit from longer aging than normal alcohol beers. In fact higher alcohol protects against spoilage, like IPA brewed high alcohol and high hop levels to better preserve them over a long ocean voyage.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: dmp on March 06, 2019, 10:16:22 AM
Getting older seems to cause these things for me. I was having back issues and started going to a yoga class a few years ago. I don't go anymore but doing it for a year made a huge improvement. Issues haven't returned. Your back just becomes a weak atrophied mess without any conditioning.  Are bodies aren't meant to sit around all the time.
I also can't tolerate the high ABV beers anymore either.
Honestly, the best thing I have ever done, minus hourly stretch breaks, is to buy a REALLY ergonomic chair.

One of my most rewarding 'repairs' was a Herman Miller chair that was being tossed. There was a cracked part that I first repaired with a radiator clamp, eventually bought a replacement on ebay. A good chair makes a big difference if you're sitting for long periods. 
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: weiss on March 06, 2019, 01:04:03 PM
I think that's a common issue.
Do you guys do anything about the solder iron smoke and gases?

I don't think anyone would wear a mask right?
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: pucho812 on March 06, 2019, 01:07:13 PM
I think that's a common issue.
Do you guys do anything about the solder iron smoke and gases?

I don't think anyone would wear a mask right?

yes...  in the past I worked at places that had solder fume extractors.  At my home bench I have a  portable computer fan set up that blows the smoke away.  Not as as good as the fume extractors but good enough.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: weiss on March 06, 2019, 02:19:32 PM
yes...  in the past I worked at places that had solder fume extractors.  At my home bench I have a  portable computer fan set up that blows the smoke away.  Not as as good as the fume extractors but good enough.

ah that's smart!  ;D
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Matador on March 06, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
IIRC, someone showed that solder fumes contain no tin or lead because the evaporation temperatures of those heavy metals is far above the point used for soldering.

Is this correct?  The fume extraction is to keep from inhaling the resin products, not lead?
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: mjrippe on March 06, 2019, 04:11:49 PM
IIRC, someone showed that solder fumes contain no tin or lead because the evaporation temperatures of those heavy metals is far above the point used for soldering.

Is this correct?  The fume extraction is to keep from inhaling the resin products, not lead?

Correct.  Rosin can be an irritant.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: scott2000 on March 06, 2019, 05:18:31 PM


*** Very high alcohol beers , aka barley wine, does benefit from longer aging than normal alcohol beers. In fact higher alcohol protects against spoilage, like IPA brewed high alcohol and high hop levels to better preserve them over a long ocean voyage.

I remember my friend being asked .......how does he always look the same in pictures spanning over the last 20 years.....He said he's preserved in alcohol.......lol

Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: JohnRoberts on March 06, 2019, 05:41:11 PM
I remember my friend being asked .......how does he always look the same in pictures spanning over the last 20 years.....He said he's preserved in alcohol.......lol
which brings us full circle... you can soak a sore back in alcohol, from the inside...  ;D

JR
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: madswitcher on March 06, 2019, 05:58:00 PM
Hi JohnAx

A proper adjustable chair in your work area is probably the most important thing you can do to minimise lower back problems if you are working for long periods at a work bench, but it has to be adjusted to suit your working conditions: you should be able to rest your forearms comfortably on the bench when working and be able to see the work piece without straining your eyes, so good lighting is also important.  If this is for your daily work, you should ask your employer to do a workplace assessment for you.  Over here in the UK  it is a legal requirement.

There are also workplace guides to be found on the Internet that may help.  It is also a good thing to take a break of about 5 to 10 minutes every hour to just get up and walk around, grab a coffee etc.

There are also other techniques that some people find helpful such as standing at a work bench instead of sitting - worth a try.

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: pucho812 on March 06, 2019, 06:52:01 PM
which brings us full circle... you can soak a sore back in alcohol, from the inside...  ;D

JR

I need to get back to brewing,  it's been a while but would like to up it and do rums or bourbons.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: john12ax7 on March 06, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
Ergonomics is something I've worked a lot on for computer usage.  But I solder rarely so haven't considered it much in that aspect,  plus  I underestimated the potential for back injury from sedentary activity.  A (painful)  lesson learned for the future.

Regarding fume extraction I use an inexpensive table top model,  it certainly helps but you need to be close to it.  You also want to be in a well ventilated room.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: scott2000 on March 06, 2019, 07:51:58 PM
I underestimated the potential for back injury from sedentary activity. 

+1
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: boji on March 06, 2019, 08:36:06 PM
Quote
IIRC, someone showed that solder fumes contain no tin or lead because the evaporation temperatures of those heavy metals is far above the point used for soldering.

Sight of relief.  Worried about that lately.  As for an extractor, a little fan does help.  At your local computer store (Frys, Microcenter, etc) they have standard 170mm PC fans that are USB powered, with little wire legs to stand it upright. No filter on the end, but it decently draws the smoke away for about $7.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Seeker on March 07, 2019, 03:44:40 AM
I sprained / strained my groin pretty badly recently, and I found a tens unit really helped dealing with the pain.  For me, the effects were fairly long lasting, an hour or two in the evening before bed would leave me feeling pretty good for most of the next day.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: dmp on March 07, 2019, 10:31:27 AM
I had a lead test (blood drawn) last year.  Was barely detectable, 1 mcg/dL.
I have done a lot of remodeling in an old house (lead paint) and soldering.
Don't eat while soldering - wash your hands when you're done.
The fumes might have other nasty stuff in them though - depending on what kind you're using.


 
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: sodderboy on March 08, 2019, 09:28:41 PM
I prefer standing on an ergo mat and still take breaks. You have to have a comfortable setup that works for you. It’s also important to keep your shoulders low and blades together and not scrunch them. I learned that from a weight trainer and it is good advice for all activities.  I can knead bread all day and feel great afterwards.
My extractor is a 25 foot 8” flexible duct that is tie wrapped to my light at one end and a 8-12” flare/ 12” fan at the basement window at the other.  At work we have a similar setup with 4” flexi at RF soldering machines connected to a large ventilation  duct.
Mike
And +1 regarding yoga. Even a mild practice enhances all aspects of living
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Rochey on March 09, 2019, 11:31:52 AM

At my old job, the technicians we had started complaining of backache etc.
They were provided with Mantis microscopes, that would allow them to sit looking directly ahead, instead of hunching over.

They were AMAZING. Good for Through Hole and awesome for SMD work. But most of all, the lack of neck strain allowed the techs (and I, when they weren't available) to solder for an hour or two with little strain on the back.

Now. They aren't cheap. But they are a tool that will last you 20 years.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Matador on March 09, 2019, 05:32:37 PM
You can find inexpensive USB microscopes that display the image on your PC screen, some offering up to 500X magnification for $100 or less.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: john12ax7 on March 09, 2019, 06:06:08 PM
A new microscope is a good idea,  I remember now how much easier it is when you have a good one.

Is there something good in between Mantis and USB? I would imagine trying to solder while looking at a computer screen would be kind of weird, but have never tried it.
Title: Re: Lower back pain after soldering
Post by: Rochey on March 09, 2019, 06:37:26 PM
i have one of those magnifying cameras and a big display, and it's nothing like the mantis. It's not stereoscopic, so there's no real sense of depth, or even being able to sneak a look around the edge.

but, if push came to shove, and I preferred giving that kind of money to a doctor instead of Mantis, then you could use it. :)