GroupDIY

Project Specific Discussions => Microphones => Topic started by: Deadrecords on February 01, 2020, 06:47:47 PM

Title: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Deadrecords on February 01, 2020, 06:47:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qDBAjTucs&t=90s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qDBAjTucs&t=90s)
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Gus on February 01, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
I looked at the youtube

The PS tubes are set-up as diodes what is he talking about?

I still think people don't know what is going on with the cooler and how things could be changed

What capsule?  Do I see red rings or are they pink?

Note the interviewer said they never saw a microphone like that at the beginning but at the end says something like it is not known if the Sony microphone is still available?
What is that about?
 
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: RuudNL on February 02, 2020, 04:40:49 AM
Great...  A lot of talking, but how does it sound compared to the original?
And they used diodes instead of tubes (as in the original). "Because it sounds better".
A nice side effect is that the diodes are a lot cheaper...
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Gus on February 02, 2020, 03:24:54 PM
I did a search and found a picture of the inside of the microphone

Who cares about the PCB material

Something that matters more was not copied

Who wants to guess what this is?

Why do people want clones?

Make something better or different.

Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: EmRR on February 02, 2020, 03:31:57 PM
oh geez, define flop......
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Deadrecords on February 03, 2020, 03:09:01 AM
I did a search and found a picture of the inside of the microphone

Who cares about the PCB material

Something that matters more was not copied

Who wants to guess what this is?

Why do people want clones?

Make something better or different.

Isn't the capsule of the og sony c800g, sony's shot at cloning the 67's capsule therefore if the capsule is not exactly the one in the  og c800g then it would sound significantly different and plus this clone wont have tubes either yikes...
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: dbelousov on February 03, 2020, 03:26:18 AM

Why do people want clones?


Because they can't afford the real thing. So why do they want the real thing is the question. And this is a long, very long and very deep rabbit hole.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: RuudNL on February 03, 2020, 07:16:31 AM
Picture.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Delta Sigma on February 03, 2020, 09:33:09 AM
That circuit board looks like it sounds awesome. Should've made the capsule out of that stuff too.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Avgatzeblouz on February 03, 2020, 09:48:45 AM
That circuit board looks like it sounds awesome. Should've made the capsule out of that stuff too.

Ahahah ! Too bad there is no "like" ! Made my day !
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: dbelousov on February 03, 2020, 11:59:23 AM
The whole point of Sony's marketing is about the c800g price. This mic is just insanely expensive and Sony is increasing and increasing its price just to be sure that it is out of any competition. So this clone doesn't make any sense. Who's gonna buy it? It's not insanely expensive, just regularly expencive. So what would I say to my clients instead of "do you know, that you are singing into the most expensive mic in the world"? "Hey, you are singing into the clone of the most expensive mic in the world, and, you know, it has a ceramic PCB"? Are you kidding me?

I'd rather buy a bunch of used Neumanns for this amount of money.  Clients really love the brand and I can always mod and tweak them if I don't like the sound. Their capsules are outstanding and circuits... are not a big problem :)
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Ricardus on February 03, 2020, 05:39:32 PM
Oooh. What PCB manufacturer offers ceramic boards?!?
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: dbelousov on February 03, 2020, 06:40:59 PM
https://www.bestpcbs.com/products/thick-film-ceramic-pcb.htm

Various types of ceramic PCBs are used extensively for high temperature/pressure environments, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: xeawr on February 04, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
any idea from where this capsule originates? If this mic is any close to a C800 then it's not an "average china k67" capsule (also the price tag forbids that)...
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: dbelousov on February 04, 2020, 11:22:57 AM
The price tag doesn't forbid diodes so why not? :)

Quote
By disassembling a C800G and handing it´s capsule to a manufacturer with more than twenty years of microphone capsule production experience, they were able to produce a capsule that matched the characteristics of the original one. The capsule used in the GA-800G can handle a higher sound pressure level than the original one and it has almost the same sound character.

Since there are no country names involved in the marketing texts it is Chinese.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: xeawr on February 04, 2020, 12:23:29 PM
The question is, who is it? GZ?

It doesn't matter really, just curious...
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Icantthinkofaname on February 07, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
The question is, who is it? GZ?

It doesn't matter really, just curious...
That wouldn't surprise me, though if it's a Chinese clone of the C800G capsule the mics shouldn't cost almost $5K.  They made it sound like it was an exact reproduction using the same components, at least from what I saw.

I think Guosheng's capsules are great (i wish he made a proper chambered CK12, but obviously that would be expensive), but if it is his capsule, they shouldn't be charging nearly $5K for the mic and acting like it's the same as them using a proper C800G capsule, since that capsule is over $1000.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Gus on February 07, 2020, 07:51:53 PM


Do a search for the GA website and look at the pictures.

"pseudo diodes" A 6AU6 wired as a diode is a diode.

Is it UL or CE etc listed? I don't see any thing in the pictures at the web site or the about.

I don't understand this clone stuff.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Whoops on February 07, 2020, 10:47:35 PM
I totally understand that there's a market for a C800G clone,
and I totally understand why people would be interested in buying it,
what i just don't get is why a clone is as expensive as this mic.

Normally people want clones because of scarcity of the real thing or high prices.
Makes sense to want to have a similar thing for a much lower price, but this chinese clone is just too expensive for the clone market.
Like dbelousov you can buy Neumann's mics for that price.

If this chinese clone mic was 400€ I don't think it would be a flop.
But at this price, 3800€, I think it will be
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: xeawr on February 13, 2020, 08:38:25 PM
Although I don't have a very radical opinion on this subject I do question the market for these upper class tube condenser microphones. The sE RNT comes to mind as well, being a high quality (I guess) microphone with the corresponding price tag. I guess the buyers are out there somewhere, else they wouldn't be doing it, right?
Man I feel so cheap now with my Neumanns
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Whoops on February 13, 2020, 09:02:20 PM
microphones. The sE RNT comes to mind as well, being a high quality (I guess) microphone with the corresponding price tag. I guess the buyers are out there somewhere, else they wouldn't be doing it, right?

Yes, there's definitely a market for high priced microphones but normally from manufacturers that have an high end reputation.
In your example SE was clever enough to have the Rupert Neve name there.

In the case of Golden Age, it's a company that is known for very cheap chinese Neve preamp clones.
Very cheap clones...
And now a 3800€ microphone, LOLOLOLOLOL
Doesn't seem to me their popularity is in the same market as the High End Brands (Neumann included)

Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: xeawr on February 14, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
Well regarding Golden Age - it's "Golden Age Premier" really, so that is theoretically a different brand for hq stuff, but I understand that a cheap N*** clone comes to mind when you hear the "Golden Age"...

speaking of the GAP, I kinda regret selling my 73mkIII, they did give me really nice records in a production I tracked last year. But I had some underwhelming experiences with those as well... never mind  :)
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Whoops on February 14, 2020, 09:04:10 PM
Well regarding Golden Age - it's "Golden Age Premier" really, so that is theoretically a different brand for hq stuff, but I understand that a cheap N*** clone comes to mind when you hear the "Golden Age"...

There's a lot of affordable microphones that are really good and perfectly capable of achieving great recordings,
all T Bone microphones come to my mind (as a lot of Chinese cheap mics)

To spend 3800€ for a mic, I need (and a studio needs) something more, I need also a Wow factor to my clients for example.
Neumann, Schoeps, DPA, Telefunken, Sony make my customers more confident. I don't need those to make good recordings, but the customer confidence is really important.

Customers will not be confident by Golden Age brand for their lead vocalist, and I will not waste session time trying to convince them that Golden Age Premier is different than Golden Age, it will be a waste of time.  Not a big enough name difference

"Just put the Neumann please"
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Recording Engineer on February 14, 2020, 10:56:51 PM
That’s right. Pull out the Neumanns for guaranteed passable results with the bill-paying gigs that no actually cares about. Pull out all the off-brand and unbranded mics when people actually care what it sounds like. What a twisted world.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Whoops on February 15, 2020, 07:41:50 AM
You can't make a name by making cheap clones, and getting tou Brand into the affordable market and then just release a 4000€ product, doesn't work like that from a marketing perspective.

Imagine Behringer, after so many years of consolidating  the brand's name in the economical range and normally the cheapest alternative in the store, now releasing a 100 000€ console in the SSL and Neve price range. Lololololol
Would not make sense

But off course Uli would never  make a mistake like that he is a really amazing bussiness man.

He didn't even put Behringer name in Behringers made cheap vintage gear clones, he used Klark Teknik brand. Even for the transformers Midas stickers were used.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Ricardus on February 15, 2020, 10:11:42 AM
Presonus did it when they released the ADL 600 tube preamp and that sold well. But it wasn't as expensive as this clone mic.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Icantthinkofaname on February 19, 2020, 09:48:10 AM
If anybody gets their hands on this, I'd love to see what the internals look like.

It's really the capsule I want to know about. I have a feeling it's a Chinese capsule like in a lot of clone mics (I think I said this before in the thread, but frankly as long as the capsule is well made I don't care where it originates, even some Telefunkens are using the Chinese CK12 capsules now I hear). I'm also curious about how the circuit and components actually compare to the original

This price is like someone building a U87 clone using a cheap K67 capsule copy, and decent components (by which I mean not bottom of the barrel capacitors, etc), and then charging $1500. Actually, there are a lot of U87 clones using Chinese capsules that cost not quite that much, but still like $700. I'd rather just pay someone to mod an existing mic to sound like a U87 (or "U67" minus the tube) than pay that much for a clone using Chinese components. Especially when mics like the BM-600 and AKG P420 are around for cheap, and I actually really like a lot of the U87 clones people on here have built.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Deadrecords on May 01, 2020, 10:08:38 PM
If anybody gets their hands on this, I'd love to see what the internals look like.

It's really the capsule I want to know about. I have a feeling it's a Chinese capsule like in a lot of clone mics (I think I said this before in the thread, but frankly as long as the capsule is well made I don't care where it originates, even some Telefunkens are using the Chinese CK12 capsules now I hear). I'm also curious about how the circuit and components actually compare to the original

This price is like someone building a U87 clone using a cheap K67 capsule copy, and decent components (by which I mean not bottom of the barrel capacitors, etc), and then charging $1500. Actually, there are a lot of U87 clones using Chinese capsules that cost not quite that much, but still like $700. I'd rather just pay someone to mod an existing mic to sound like a U87 (or "U67" minus the tube) than pay that much for a clone using Chinese components. Especially when mics like the BM-600 and AKG P420 are around for cheap, and I actually really like a lot of the U87 clones people on here have built.

The GA800 isn't on the GAP site anymore. I guess he got a lot of bad  reviews. We will see what they do with the Mk 2. 
https://goldenagepremier.com/

You can see the insides here

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GA800G--golden-age-project-ga-800g-large-diaphragm-tube-condenser-microphone
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Whoops on May 01, 2020, 11:14:46 PM
The GA800 isn't on the GAP site anymore. I guess he got a lot of bad  reviews.

Off course,
they eventually realized their brand name doesn't have enough recognition or confidence for a 3800€ microphone.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: evil grill on May 07, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
Positive review with soundsamples where they compare it to a Sony C-800G:
https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/golden-age-premier-ga-800g-test.html
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: RuudNL on May 12, 2020, 04:46:49 AM
Often reviews work like: "If you give us a good review, you can keep it"...
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: evil grill on May 12, 2020, 04:57:31 AM
Often reviews work like: "If you give us a good review, you can keep it"...

I am convinced it often works that way. I just thought that the sound-samples could be interesting.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: Icantthinkofaname on May 12, 2020, 09:20:45 PM
Often reviews work like: "If you give us a good review, you can keep it"...
The only mic manufacturers I've seen do that are rebranders like Tonor and Neewer and other Chinese companies. I have seen iSK send somebody their cheaper mics like the dynamic and Little Gem and CM-20, though I don't know if they were on a "good review equals free mic" basis.

I know companies like the Chinese rebranders give free mics for good reviews. Synco offers people a big discount or a free video mic ($50 or so value" for giving their Mic D2 shotgun mic 5 stars on Amazon, I've seen the other Chinese companies on Amazon offer a free product for a 5 star review, though sometimes they want a 5 star one just for sending you the product to review with seemingly no promise of keeping the mic.

I'd be surprised if Golden Age does it, but there's got to be some incentive to give such an overpriced copy a good review. But for anybody actually interested in a C800G clone of questionable accuracy, they should probably just get the one from Advanced Audio. I doubt it sounds the same as a C800G, but it's probably close enough, and I doubt this one is any closer.

I'm surprised at the amount of good reviews I've seen of a couple boutique North American manufacturers when the mics in question are noticeably different from the ones their based on.  I won't name name's, but how is it possible to make$200+ capsules that sound worse than Chinese capsules costing $30-50, while also seemingly having worse QC for the price? There's no way people giving said mics good reviews haven't been bought off.

Though if I were offered a $900+ microphone for free, it's hard to say I wouldn't give it a good review. Though I'd rather be paid off in cash than mediocre microphones. I'd still talk sh*t about the microphone under a different name though if I really didn't like it.
Title: Re: You all think this sony c800g clone will be a flop?
Post by: benqbasic on May 16, 2020, 08:00:45 PM
The GA800 isn't on the GAP site anymore. I guess he got a lot of bad  reviews. We will see what they do with the Mk 2. 
https://goldenagepremier.com/

You can see the insides here

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GA800G--golden-age-project-ga-800g-large-diaphragm-tube-condenser-microphone

It is still on the GAP website, just go to 'premier line'. https://goldenagepremier.com/ga-800g/